It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
We welcome lefties. The more the merrier. Some of them, however, get very frustrated with the perceived right wing nature of the site (as people have pointed out, I don't think it especially is) and then go off on one and get banned or bored.
Next you will be telling me Attila the Hun was a peace loving guy
Vegetarian and anti-foxhunting I believe.
Mayoral role model as well. Inspired Sadiq to be (checks twitter) 'The leader of cultural #Jihad'.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
He is/was a Tory.
Thats surprising. Losing Brexit sent him a bit bonkers I think.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
We welcome lefties. The more the merrier. Some of them, however, get very frustrated with the perceived right wing nature of the site (as people have pointed out, I don't think it especially is) and then go off on one and get banned or bored.
I don't believe I have "gone off on one", I was just making an observation.
For me, I much prefer this site compared to others that just confirm my views.
I don't think you have gone off on one either. I'm just saying one reason I've observed for some lefties to have, er, left.
I hope you and all the other ones stay as long as you wish.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
We're still waiting for that magic 38-40 moment...
Well there's a new YouGov. Labour are up to 33% and the Tory lead with YouGov is down to 15%. It was 20% last time and 24% in the last YouGov prior to Starmer being elected.
Johnson "Best PM" lead down from 24% to 12% in the course of a fortnight.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
This is a reasonable response and could explain my assumptions. I do think there is certainly an over-representation of Tory views from posters - but that may well be because they tend to post a lot more frequently than others.
I would say I do not post too frequently, I often disappear for a while and come back. Such is working life unfortunately.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
I thought I was so even handed in my commentary that I would pass below the radar! I always thought of myself as a centrist dad or Blairite scum, but I did one of those tests on Facebook and it labelled me a "libertarian socialist" which I suppose is probably accurate.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Naming more doesn't make the 10% estimate change. The point I was making is that I can name very few pro-Labour posters.
I stand by my point.
But you were only thinking of four posters, yourself included, when you came up with that estimate.
How on Earth do you know what I was thinking?
I believe the total is 10%, that is what I stick by.
Because you said "I was thinking of those three + me.".
Those are the posters I can name. It doesn't mean there are more or less Labour posters, or Tory posters. I just can name a lot more Tory posters than Labour ones.
I don't think we've ever seen eye to eye on anything, so as usual I will leave this conversation here on a respectful note.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
We welcome lefties. The more the merrier. Some of them, however, get very frustrated with the perceived right wing nature of the site (as people have pointed out, I don't think it especially is) and then go off on one and get banned or bored.
I don't believe I have "gone off on one", I was just making an observation.
For me, I much prefer this site compared to others that just confirm my views.
Yes, it's much better to get a broad set of opinions before forming your own, and this site is good for that. I buy the "i" and took out a Telegraph online subscription in order to get both sides of the argument on Brexit. By contrast, I've a friend whose left wing view of the world seems to be determined entirely by what she reads on "The Canary" and never deviates from their slant on things.
Johnson has clearly spent a week preparing for PMQs and still can’t do it. He is going to come to detest Starmer in a very personal way. Starmer is making him work and then relentlessly showing that he is not up to the task.
I'm biased but I gave last weeks PMQs to Starmer. This week I think it was a score draw. Starmer was asking questions he knew had no answer and Boris was able to bat them off - and managed to answer Starmer's question 4 in advance of him asking it in his answer 3 which was amusing, so when Starmer went on to ask his question still he was able to say he'd already answered that.
Yep, very biased. Johnson was still crap. Not as crap as the last two times, but still hopeless. I cannot remember a PM so inept at PMQs. Even Gordon Brown was significantly better. Funny really, as it is the one area where I would have thought Johnson might be able to shine, but, like with every aspect of his premiership he is out of his depth.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
We welcome lefties. The more the merrier. Some of them, however, get very frustrated with the perceived right wing nature of the site (as people have pointed out, I don't think it especially is) and then go off on one and get banned or bored.
I don't believe I have "gone off on one", I was just making an observation.
For me, I much prefer this site compared to others that just confirm my views.
Yes, it's much better to get a broad set of opinions before forming your own, and this site is good for that. I buy the "i" and took out a Telegraph online subscription in order to get both sides of the argument on Brexit. By contrast, I've a friend whose left wing view of the world seems to be determined entirely by what she reads on "The Canary" and never deviates from their slant on things.
As somebody who fell into that world before the election and has recovered since, I can appreciate it being very difficult to get out of.
I return to what I was before this whole Corbyn business started - and that is a bog standard Norway-style social democrat.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Naming more doesn't make the 10% estimate change. The point I was making is that I can name very few pro-Labour posters.
I stand by my point.
But you were only thinking of four posters, yourself included, when you came up with that estimate.
How on Earth do you know what I was thinking?
I believe the total is 10%, that is what I stick by.
Because you said "I was thinking of those three + me.".
Those are the posters I can name. It doesn't mean there are more or less Labour posters, or Tory posters. I just can name a lot more Tory posters than Labour ones.
I don't think we've ever seen eye to eye on anything, so as usual I will leave this conversation here on a respectful note.
If you can only name three, don't you think that might affect your ability to estimate the overall population?
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
Naming more doesn't make the 10% estimate change. The point I was making is that I can name very few pro-Labour posters.
I stand by my point.
But you were only thinking of four posters, yourself included, when you came up with that estimate.
How on Earth do you know what I was thinking?
I believe the total is 10%, that is what I stick by.
Because you said "I was thinking of those three + me.".
Those are the posters I can name. It doesn't mean there are more or less Labour posters, or Tory posters. I just can name a lot more Tory posters than Labour ones.
I don't think we've ever seen eye to eye on anything, so as usual I will leave this conversation here on a respectful note.
Its classic observation bias.
To be far you probably converse more back and forth with people you disagree with rather than those you agree with.
You couldn't name RochdalePioneers as Labour but you probably haven't gone back and forth with him as much as you have with eg me. Because you and I disagree so we reply to each other more, when you see Rochdale write something you agree with you probably just nod along rather than reply to him.
The FT estimates of excess mortality by country are especially interesting when you also look at their estimates for specific large cities or areas. For example (figures shown are the 2020 increase to date in mortality from all causes compared with an average year):
UK +61%, London +135% France +31%, Ile de France +137% Sweden +29%, Stockholm +87% US +19%, New York City +408% Italy +55%, Bergamo province +496%
What this probably shows is that crude death leagues by country are incredibly misleading, because so much depends on sudden high-speed exponential growth in crowded areas. It probably also suggests that there could be a lot more big outbreaks to come as things relax a bit.
Worth noting that those excess deaths are occurring in the epicentres of Covid-19, not across the whole areas of lockdown. This is quite a strong pointer that these were indeed undiagnosed Covid-19. Deaths from other causes would be more evenly spread.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
But 80% of the posts are lefty Tweets from Scott, so that balances it out
Scott does his best, he is one of the few leftie posters I can think of.
I wouldn't guess on a percentage, but I think the site is more likely to be unrepresentative for other reasons. We probably have a much higher percentage of people who can do an impression of a dial-up modem than the general population, for example.
Boris seems to be edging closer to the winning strategy: assert control over the situation with an effective system of testing and tracing, sufficient to restore public confidence in the safety of public spaces. There's still nothing on the quarantine measures for those who test positive, but those empty Nightingale hospitals could really come in handy for this.
If the system works, normal life could resume faster than many are assuming. There's no need for a trade-off between safety and economic activity if we're tracking down and quarantining the infected faster than they can infect others. It's also a much simpler story for the government, much better than arcane rules about whether you can meet your great-uncle in a park if it's a Tuesday and it's raining.
It all comes down to the delivery. Can they do it? I say this as a Boris-skeptic who would nevertheless very much like to see him succeed at this, because right now it's in the country's interest that he do so.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Of course, but is there a PB consensus for claret? And someone yesterday was taking about how remarkably quaffable Aldi wines are.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings. They will argue that they represent the modern Tory Party, which is a very narrow selection of views compared to the old version of the party. Eventually though, just like the Corbynites that took over Labour they will be ousted when people realise they are a bunch of fuckwits. At least that is what I hope.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings. They will argue that they represent the modern Tory Party, which is a very narrow selection of views compared to the old version of the party. Eventually though, just like the Corbynites that took over Labour they will be ousted when people realise they are a bunch of fuckwits. At least that is what I hope.
I think the only one that matches that description is HYUFD.
I view myself as unique and not "proper" anything.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Of course, but is there a PB consensus for claret? And someone yesterday was taking about how remarkably quaffable Aldi wines are.
Aldi and Lidl have some great wines. I imagine they hope to bring the poshos in to buy wine and then they buy their baked beans also.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings. They will argue that they represent the modern Tory Party, which is a very narrow selection of views compared to the old version of the party. Eventually though, just like the Corbynites that took over Labour they will be ousted when people realise they are a bunch of fuckwits. At least that is what I hope.
I think the only one that matches that description is HYUFD.
I view myself as unique and not "proper" anything.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings. They will argue that they represent the modern Tory Party, which is a very narrow selection of views compared to the old version of the party. Eventually though, just like the Corbynites that took over Labour they will be ousted when people realise they are a bunch of fuckwits. At least that is what I hope.
I think the only one that matches that description is HYUFD.
I view myself as unique and not "proper" anything.
So I'll put you down as one of the site's lefties, then.
Only traitors want to see the breakup of the UK because lefties hate the UK.
I don't hate the UK, I just think its served its purpose and should fade into the history books like Empire did.
That would look nice on the side of a bus.
My views on the UK predate the EU referendum. I supported Yes in 2014.
I'm also a republican and an atheist. I want to see the Church and Monarchy both removed too. Does that need to go on a bus?
I guess that puts you out of alignment with many, though certainly not all English nationalists. Probably puts you in with a lot of contrarian pub bores who think that their "philosophy" makes them look intelligent, when in reality it has the opposite effect. Very similar to one Donald Trump in fact. How is the hydroxychloroquine dose going?
We are running out of cases in London & South West - the question is what happens in the Midlands, East and North East now.....
Seems to be dropping off in the North West too. My local authority hasn't announced any COVID deaths for 3 days in a row, fingers crossed that continues.
That's why I think we can drop this to containable levels and not need some age-related apartheid where we keep people locked up forever.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
We're still waiting for that magic 38-40 moment...
Well there's a new YouGov. Labour are up to 33% and the Tory lead with YouGov is down to 15%. It was 20% last time and 24% in the last YouGov prior to Starmer being elected.
Johnson "Best PM" lead down from 24% to 12% in the course of a fortnight.
I would be surprised if the Tory lead isn't in the single figures by the end of this year.
Starmer has certainly started by chipping away at the Tories' lead at a fair pace. In the last 3 polls published (Opinium, Redfield/Wilton and YouGov), the Tory lead averages 14%. The same three firms were the only ones to publish polls with fieldwork in the week before Starmer became leader, and a that point the three showed an average lead of 22.3%.
Now some of that narrowing may not all be down to Starmer upping Labour's game. Some I think is just be down to an unwinding of the mood of early April when the instinct was to suspend disbelief and "rally round the government in a moment of national crisis". However, that shouldn't reassure the Conservatives because it suggests their polling boost was artificial and will unwind further as we go further towards resuming normal business.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Of course, but is there a PB consensus for claret? And someone yesterday was taking about how remarkably quaffable Aldi wines are.
Aldi and Lidl have some great wines. I imagine they hope to bring the poshos in to buy wine and then they buy their baked beans also.
There is a phenomenon where businesses that do not have a reputation in a field try much harder - McDonalds for coffee for example. They keep winning blind tastings among the high street chains.
So I'll put you down as one of the site's lefties, then.
Only traitors want to see the breakup of the UK because lefties hate the UK.
I don't hate the UK, I just think its served its purpose and should fade into the history books like Empire did.
That would look nice on the side of a bus.
My views on the UK predate the EU referendum. I supported Yes in 2014.
I'm also a republican and an atheist. I want to see the Church and Monarchy both removed too. Does that need to go on a bus?
I guess that puts you out of alignment with many, though certainly not all English nationalists. Probably puts you in with a lot of contrarian pub bores who think that their "philosophy" makes them look intelligent, when in reality it has the opposite effect. Very similar to one Donald Trump in fact. How is the hydroxychloroquine dose going?
Shows how little you know.
Donald Trump disgusts me, I have nothing to do with him and hopes he loses.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Of course, but is there a PB consensus for claret? And someone yesterday was taking about how remarkably quaffable Aldi wines are.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings. They will argue that they represent the modern Tory Party, which is a very narrow selection of views compared to the old version of the party. Eventually though, just like the Corbynites that took over Labour they will be ousted when people realise they are a bunch of fuckwits. At least that is what I hope.
I think the only one that matches that description is HYUFD.
I view myself as unique and not "proper" anything.
I agree. You are most definitely improper
No he a proper something, but it is a word that would be improper to use on this site.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Of course, but is there a PB consensus for claret? And someone yesterday was taking about how remarkably quaffable Aldi wines are.
Aldi and Lidl have some great wines. I imagine they hope to bring the poshos in to buy wine and then they buy their baked beans also.
There is a phenomenon where businesses that do not have a reputation in a field try much harder - McDonalds for coffee for example. They keep winning blind tastings among the high street chains.
Most of my drive thru visits to McDonalds are for just a coffee and no food. It is good.
Those are the posters I can name. It doesn't mean there are more or less Labour posters, or Tory posters. I just can name a lot more Tory posters than Labour ones.
I don't think we've ever seen eye to eye on anything, so as usual I will leave this conversation here on a respectful note.
Clearly the explanation is that you find the Tory posters more interesting, so notice them more.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings. They will argue that they represent the modern Tory Party, which is a very narrow selection of views compared to the old version of the party. Eventually though, just like the Corbynites that took over Labour they will be ousted when people realise they are a bunch of fuckwits. At least that is what I hope.
I think the only one that matches that description is HYUFD.
I view myself as unique and not "proper" anything.
You voted Brexit Party last June, not me
As a protest vote to force out Theresa May not because I support them, as I said.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings.
I understand that the BNP felt they were "the only true socialist party in the UK". Their policies that I am aware of struck me a more old Labour than anything a right wing party would support.
UKIP were kind of single issue - a bit like the SNP.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Of course, but is there a PB consensus for claret? And someone yesterday was taking about how remarkably quaffable Aldi wines are.
Aldi and Lidl have some great wines. I imagine they hope to bring the poshos in to buy wine and then they buy their baked beans also.
There is a phenomenon where businesses that do not have a reputation in a field try much harder - McDonalds for coffee for example. They keep winning blind tastings among the high street chains.
Most of my drive thru visits to McDonalds are for just a coffee and no food. It is good.
Tried their espresso in Hamburg - there was no other option locally - it seemed OK. Better than Costa...
Boris seems to be edging closer to the winning strategy: assert control over the situation with an effective system of testing and tracing, sufficient to restore public confidence in the safety of public spaces. There's still nothing on the quarantine measures for those who test positive, but those empty Nightingale hospitals could really come in handy for this.
If the system works, normal life could resume faster than many are assuming. There's no need for a trade-off between safety and economic activity if we're tracking down and quarantining the infected faster than they can infect others. It's also a much simpler story for the government, much better than arcane rules about whether you can meet your great-uncle in a park if it's a Tuesday and it's raining.
It all comes down to the delivery. Can they do it? I say this as a Boris-skeptic who would nevertheless very much like to see him succeed at this, because right now it's in the country's interest that he do so.
He needs the mass antibody test promised weeks ago. The current options track and trace one day ok, get the virus the next. Limited value and Johnson can't keep the economy shut much longer in a vain wait for his game-changer.
He is probably helped in his stalling tactics by the sheer stupidity of the questioning by both the MSM and the opposition. Care homes are 90% private businesses, where both residents and staff have been widely regarded as getting a bum deal for a long time. There isn't much mileage there bashing the government, when most are aware it is internal management in care homes that has most to answer for.
Starmer would be better focusing on ideas to move us forward out of the current impasse but I doubt his Public Unions bosses would allow that.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I don't think it evidently is. There's all sorts here - lefties, nationalists, even an LD host.
As for the Tories they're very split too. I think I may be the only poster here who was unabashedly both anti May and pro Boris. A lot of Tories here were the other way around.
This site is very much to the right.
It's like 80% right wing posters, 20% others. Maybe 10% or less are Labour.
Again...nothing wrong with that.
Site is dominated by people obsessed by how to stay on elite tiers of frequent flyer programmes and the proper way to treat your cleaner. Am I the only PBer who doesn't have a cleaner?
*cough* best wine merchant for mature claret *cough*
Of course, but is there a PB consensus for claret? And someone yesterday was taking about how remarkably quaffable Aldi wines are.
Aldi and Lidl have some great wines. I imagine they hope to bring the poshos in to buy wine and then they buy their baked beans also.
There is a phenomenon where businesses that do not have a reputation in a field try much harder - McDonalds for coffee for example. They keep winning blind tastings among the high street chains.
I have to agree. Their coffee is the only product I have bought in McD's since 1991.
As for wine - Yellow Tail wines are nice enough for day-to-day but the Dom Ott Clos Mirielle is very nice when on offer
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
I do not think that the site is pro-Tory or inhabited by overwhelming numbers of Tories, but the unflinching loyalty of the PB Tories and their almost Orwellian denials of reality skew the feel of the debate. I think they are a minority, but a very vocal one.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings. They will argue that they represent the modern Tory Party, which is a very narrow selection of views compared to the old version of the party. Eventually though, just like the Corbynites that took over Labour they will be ousted when people realise they are a bunch of fuckwits. At least that is what I hope.
I think the only one that matches that description is HYUFD.
I view myself as unique and not "proper" anything.
You voted Brexit Party last June, not me
As a protest vote to force out Theresa May not because I support them, as I said.
You’re never going to out partisan the robot so not worth even trying.
If lockdown is lifted, “social distancing” has to stop. Basic, sensible hygiene measures: yes. But the idea that you can have venues and activities where social closeness is integral to the very nature of what is going on at the same time as “social distancing” is contradictory nonsense.
Why? It's not a binary on/off switch.
The shape of what's coming, internationally, is, I think, becoming clear. In economic terms, we are going to see neither a 'V' nor a 'U' nor an 'L' shaped recession. Instead, the profile going to be something like an 'L' initially but with the bottom glyph gradually turning upwards in a slow, incremental recovery. It will probably take some years before economies are back to pre-Covid-19 levels, even if a vaccine becomes widely available some time next year..
On a sector level, we are going to see a very mixed picture. Factories will largely re-open, provided they are making things which are still in demand. Offices will partially return to semi-normal with social distancing and other precautions in place, but with many or most workers still working from home. Retail - or the bit of it which survives - is going to run at reduced capacity, with social distancing precautions in place for quite a while. Schools will reopen tentatively. Universities, hotels, restaurants, pubs, theatres, concert halls, airlines, civil aviation manufacturing are completely stuffed. Non-Covid healthcare will stutter back into life but at reduced capacity.
If social distancing is maintained as a policy then all forms of social closeness and intimacy and the activities by which humans express and show and enjoy this will effectively be banned or impossible. This is pretty much every form of human activity save for that work which can be done from home or while tooled up in protective gear
This is not an economic issue fundamentally but about how we want to live.
Pretending that lockdown can be lifted and these activities can continue “with social distancing measures” in place is a big fat lie.
A life, a society where can there be no social closeness is unbearable, to me anyway. And a huge overreaction. Societies have lived with contagious and deadly diseases before without closing down everything in sight for months or years on end.
I absolutely agree with Cyclefree that the biggest cost of lockdown and social distancing are not economic, but human. Because belonging, connectedness, love - whatever you want to call it - is THE most important human need. It was the one thing Maslow got wrong in his hierarchy: it comes before physiological needs, because our evolution as sentient beings capable of speech has required newborns to create that connectedness with their mothers in order to survive, period. Without the strength of the need for connectedness, we don't even get as far as physiological needs.
But the Quarantine bubble with a small group of non-household members is a good idea. How many people can we truly have intimate relationships with that engender the strongest levels of connectedness?
Dunbar numbers suggest that 3-5 is the range for how many can be our very closest friends, our clique. This might be a good place to start with the quarantine bubble, and expand out from there. Of course, within the household unit, each person will have a different clique, even if there is some overlap, and those in the quarantine bubble from outside will have clique members neither in that bubble nor in their household. So I don't think everyone in a household could all jump from lockdown to Quarantine Bubble for all your clique members in one go, but perhaps slowly expand it as the situation progresses.
And this expansion could continue. 12-15 is the deep trust number or sympathy group, which is the number of people from whom you can accept a small amount of betrayal without severing ties. That would be the next level but by this stage, there would not be many degrees of separation between everyone in the population.
FWIW, the other Dunbar numbers are: 50, the typical overnight camp size among traditional hunter-gatherers or the familial grouping, the band 150, the the number of people for whom you can know something about them and their capabilities, i.e. for whom you can manage expectations = the friendship group. Dunbar's original research 500, the number of people with whom we can remain nodding acquaintances = the tribe 1500, the number of people for whom we can put a name to the face = the community. This is probably the underlying reason why army units and business divisions tend to be this size.
That's interesting. I've never heard of this Dunbar chap.
However, I've been familiar with sociologically-derived and research based numbers very close to those for organising voluntary groups since at least the early 1980s.
The idea being, with a bit of variation in the larger groups:
3-6 family size group of bosom buddies to spend time with regularly. 12-16 people seen regularly (compare to a football or rugby team). 30-60s group where relationships become more functional. 80-120 size able to support a full-time leader, and perhaps a building. 400-600 and 1500+. Larger sizes for rarer gatherings.
There are a lot of eg churches that have been using those insights since that time. Part from theoretical work, part from experience in previous decades.
I'm sure there must be even earlier work - as with many things, much of it comes from marginal movements observed by people out of their normal environments.
I would argue that the unflinching right wingers (I probably don't need to name them) are not what I would regard as proper Tories. They are more Brexit Party/UKIP or possibly BNP in their leanings.
I understand that the BNP felt they were "the only true socialist party in the UK". Their policies that I am aware of struck me a more old Labour than anything a right wing party would support.
UKIP were kind of single issue - a bit like the SNP.
The BNP were "national socialists" with overtly racist and socially conservative views. The only real difference to UKIP was the "overtly" bit and the fact that UKIP did not espouse nationalisation and its membership generally wore blazers or tweed jackets.
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
Don't let that put you off. We welcome all sorts here, even brainwashed lefties
I feel it my responsibility to try and add some balance to what is a very pro-Tory site. Nothing wrong with that but that is evidently the case.
This is not a pro Tory site.
It is run by a LD and the last survey of how PBers voted was after the 2015 general election and showed PBers voted Tory or Labour in about the same proportion as nationally but there were more LD PBers than nationally and fewer UKIP voting PBers than nationally
Dreadful performance by Johnson. The bluster worked against Corbyn but Starmer is so pin point precise Johnson looks exposed.
Did you watch a different PMQs?
The PB Tory brigade have assured us that Johnson bestrode the Commons stage like a Swiftian Gulliver clearing all before him whilst some faded grey bloke mumbled questions that everyone ignored...
Obviously I'm just a brainwashed leftie
We're still waiting for that magic 38-40 moment...
Well there's a new YouGov. Labour are up to 33% and the Tory lead with YouGov is down to 15%. It was 20% last time and 24% in the last YouGov prior to Starmer being elected.
Johnson "Best PM" lead down from 24% to 12% in the course of a fortnight.
I would be surprised if the Tory lead isn't in the single figures by the end of this year.
Starmer has certainly started by chipping away at the Tories' lead at a fair pace. In the last 3 polls published (Opinium, Redfield/Wilton and YouGov), the Tory lead averages 14%. The same three firms were the only ones to publish polls with fieldwork in the week before Starmer became leader, and a that point the three showed an average lead of 22.3%.
Now some of that narrowing may not all be down to Starmer upping Labour's game. Some I think is just be down to an unwinding of the mood of early April when the instinct was to suspend disbelief and "rally round the government in a moment of national crisis". However, that shouldn't reassure the Conservatives because it suggests their polling boost was artificial and will unwind further as we go further towards resuming normal business.
The polls now are marginally better for the Tories than they were in the days before Decembers election
How do opposition parties with a leader that is quitting/without a leader normally poll?
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And that's without considering the left wing nationalists like @Theuniondivvie
I stand by my point.
I think you'd struggle to quickly come up with a hundred Tories which would be required if your breakdown was accurate.
I believe the total is 10%, that is what I stick by.
Bye bye Northern Ireland in the long term.
I would say I do not post too frequently, I often disappear for a while and come back. Such is working life unfortunately.
I always thought of myself as a centrist dad or Blairite scum, but I did one of those tests on Facebook and it labelled me a "libertarian socialist" which I suppose is probably accurate.
I'll file this under "Doesn't affect young healthy people too badly"
In more positive news no new cases in London or South East (Probably due to a technical/weekend effect) but still, progress.
I don't think we've ever seen eye to eye on anything, so as usual I will leave this conversation here on a respectful note.
London and the South East are getting very low - probably into a noise effect at this point.
I return to what I was before this whole Corbyn business started - and that is a bog standard Norway-style social democrat.
To be far you probably converse more back and forth with people you disagree with rather than those you agree with.
You couldn't name RochdalePioneers as Labour but you probably haven't gone back and forth with him as much as you have with eg me. Because you and I disagree so we reply to each other more, when you see Rochdale write something you agree with you probably just nod along rather than reply to him.
I wouldn't guess on a percentage, but I think the site is more likely to be unrepresentative for other reasons. We probably have a much higher percentage of people who can do an impression of a dial-up modem than the general population, for example.
If the system works, normal life could resume faster than many are assuming. There's no need for a trade-off between safety and economic activity if we're tracking down and quarantining the infected faster than they can infect others. It's also a much simpler story for the government, much better than arcane rules about whether you can meet your great-uncle in a park if it's a Tuesday and it's raining.
It all comes down to the delivery. Can they do it? I say this as a Boris-skeptic who would nevertheless very much like to see him succeed at this, because right now it's in the country's interest that he do so.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8340219/Superdrug-high-street-retailer-sell-coronavirus-antibody-test-69.html
I'm also a republican and an atheist. I want to see the Church and Monarchy both removed too. Does that need to go on a bus?
I view myself as unique and not "proper" anything.
I can always dig something out though
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1263097210981449728?s=20
It would probably work
That's why I think we can drop this to containable levels and not need some age-related apartheid where we keep people locked up forever.
Now some of that narrowing may not all be down to Starmer upping Labour's game. Some I think is just be down to an unwinding of the mood of early April when the instinct was to suspend disbelief and "rally round the government in a moment of national crisis". However, that shouldn't reassure the Conservatives because it suggests their polling boost was artificial and will unwind further as we go further towards resuming normal business.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-nireland-poll/poll-shows-northern-ireland-majority-against-united-ireland-idUKKBN20C0WF
Donald Trump disgusts me, I have nothing to do with him and hopes he loses.
There was once a time on here where anyone without staunch pro-Tory views was immediately castigated as an 'astroturfer'.
See what I did there.
UKIP were kind of single issue - a bit like the SNP.
He is probably helped in his stalling tactics by the sheer stupidity of the questioning by both the MSM and the opposition. Care homes are 90% private businesses, where both residents and staff have been widely regarded as getting a bum deal for a long time. There isn't much mileage there bashing the government, when most are aware it is internal management in care homes that has most to answer for.
Starmer would be better focusing on ideas to move us forward out of the current impasse but I doubt his Public Unions bosses would allow that.
I am entirely consistent in my liberal principles.
As for wine - Yellow Tail wines are nice enough for day-to-day but the Dom Ott Clos Mirielle is very nice when on offer
However, I've been familiar with sociologically-derived and research based numbers very close to those for organising voluntary groups since at least the early 1980s.
The idea being, with a bit of variation in the larger groups:
3-6 family size group of bosom buddies to spend time with regularly.
12-16 people seen regularly (compare to a football or rugby team).
30-60s group where relationships become more functional.
80-120 size able to support a full-time leader, and perhaps a building.
400-600 and 1500+. Larger sizes for rarer gatherings.
There are a lot of eg churches that have been using those insights since that time. Part from theoretical work, part from experience in previous decades.
I'm sure there must be even earlier work - as with many things, much of it comes from marginal movements observed by people out of their normal environments.
It is run by a LD and the last survey of how PBers voted was after the 2015 general election and showed PBers voted Tory or Labour in about the same proportion as nationally but there were more LD PBers than nationally and fewer UKIP voting PBers than nationally
How do opposition parties with a leader that is quitting/without a leader normally poll?