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  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    I'd be more interested in if they are being used effectively or not. But HMG have succeeded in distracting people by convincing them the total number is the one and only metric to measure success in this area.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,279

    And 'Stay Alert' is fine.

    It's a good slogan for the next phase. There's a lot of echo chamber party politicking going on. There's also sheer fear. People are being steered away from their 80% furlough money to a world where you might catch something which kills you.

    That's why there's a backlash. Not the slogan. The concept.

    Nonsense, they have chosen a random word that has nothing to do with the messaging.

    Im in favour of gradual relaxation of the lockdown, so not saying this because I disagree with the concept at all.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    malcolmg said:

    G it was criticism for the sake of it , she state what was good for Scotland and border is easily closed , only a few roads.
    It is not going to come to closing borders
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    "The government has simply not made up its mind what it expects of its citizens."

    We do not belong to the government, they belong to us.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Nonsense, they have chosen a random word that has nothing to do with the messaging.

    Im in favour of gradual relaxation of the lockdown, so not saying this because I disagree with the concept at all.
    Nonsense to you too.

    Stay Alert is fine.

    It's a shift for people to get out of lockdown mindset into a world where they still need to be vigilant. Alert, in other words. Hygiene, social distancing, personal protection. These are the long term goals for a country returning to a semblance of normality.

    I don't mind criticising the Gov't but this is frankly pathetic.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,955

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    edited May 2020

    They're still far too high to be doing anything like going back to normal.
    I agree - no one is saying "back to normal" - but deaths are down to 250 per day max (NHS England only) from 880 + a month ago and falling daily. How low should they go before we ease off. Slightly, even?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838

    You're right, it should have been Andra blusteringly unrepentant Neil that had the real beamer. Though tbf it would be difficult to tell if a girlish blush did appear on that pan.
    You shock me. I was anticipating a searing excoriation of the tosspots working for the Nationalist rag for spreading divisive propaganda based on the fact that NHS England's PPE stocks were *horrors* earmarked for NHS England's care homes. Not to mention the lunatic student politicians masquerading as a Government who made hay with the story.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103
    eadric said:

    Apart from Alex Salmond bringing her down.
    True but that will not impact the SNP waltzing the election , likely just make victory even bigger.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854
    This sounds like the same syndrome @foxinsoxuk has described.

    https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1259519122939023363
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited May 2020
    kyf_100 said:

    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    I hear that hospital with no patients is breaking all records for cleanliness.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5zEb1oS9A
    If you are going to need A&E you better hope you are in Scotland.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838
    malcolmg said:

    True but that will not impact the SNP waltzing the election , likely just make victory even bigger.
    I think you're underestimating Nicola Sturgeon's personal impact there Malc. Who are the alternatives? Salmond? Cherry? Not a pretty picture.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    I hear that hospital with no patients is breaking all records for cleanliness.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5zEb1oS9A
    Bit like the Nightingales then , or the 40 that will never be built.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    LOL good old Tories , did it matter if you lost one leg or two legs and an arm
  • Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    I wonder if Labour would get the same reaction.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    Is the government happy for you to go to the park and have a pizza with ten of your mates if you are all socially distant?
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    malcolmg said:

    Bit like the Nightingales then , or the 40 that will never be built.
    Or the Sick Kids Hospital in Edinburgh? ;-)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344
    malcolmg said:

    Lots of noise about at minute TUD but no real big hitters or money involved yet. I think SNP are only hope at present but if polls remain where they are then 2nd vote is definitely better going elsewhere for sure.
    Think this is last chance saloon for current leadership if they last till election , they do not seem very interested in their main purpose. If they do not make this next one a referendum then they will be toppled, too many careerists and chancers at top now. I will see what happens in near future, my preference would be to see Salmond involved with any new party in some fashion even if not taking a front seat.
    The Rev seems to have lost the plot completely of late as well so not sure which way it will go and without a figurehead I do not see an alternative getting far.
    Regardless of whether I think it's a good idea or not, Salmond is the only one who could get something like that going. Wings does seem to have gone off at the deep end; he seems more motivated by hatred of the SNP than anything else which doesn't really bode well for a party that's supposed to win list seats so it can push for indy 'with' the SNP and Greens (in fact he seems to hate the Greens even more). I think Wings has made noises about being in contact with Alex Salmond, whether that means anything I don't know.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    I think you're underestimating Nicola Sturgeon's personal impact there Malc. Who are the alternatives? Salmond? Cherry? Not a pretty picture.
    They have no opposition , I could take the job and win the election, running rings round Carcrash , Wee wullie winkie and Leonard would be simple.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079

    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    Barnesian said:

    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
    "Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible" was the government`s advice in the first place!. I hope they are going to announce more this evening than a simple re-iteration of what was always intended.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,838
    malcolmg said:

    He made a right clown of himself , it was all in the public letters , despite Leitch trying to be polite and say it was rubbish. We also know orders have been given not to help Scotland get any PPE from abroad as well.
    It was shite Malc. It wasn't just untrue, it never could have been true, because the very idea of it is based on a fantasy persecution complex shared by some in Scotland that the 'English elite' hate crumblies in Dundee but love the ones in Doncaster. It's should trigger serious self-reflection for anyone reading it who couldn't smell the bullcrap.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325

    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    It is a poor change of emphasis. Even Boris knows that now. Boris would rather bluff it out than backpedal furiously, so now he has to live with the consequences.

    Which is it? A deliberate return to herd immunisation or Boris' loose tongue at PMQs allowing the agenda to run away from him?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079
    Stocky said:

    "Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible" was the government`s advice in the first place!. I hope they are going to announce more this evening than a simple re-iteration of what was always intended.
    It was Stay Home with detailed rules about hours of exercise and no sunbathing and whether you could use a car. The aim is to reduce transmission. The message should be use your common sense to achieve that. Imagine every surface and every person is covered in green radio-active slime. Keep your distance and wash your hands. But of course you can sunbathe, or chat to your neighbour over the fence. You don't have to robotically just Stay Home. Think, and Stay Alert.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,279
    Stocky said:

    "Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible" was the government`s advice in the first place!. I hope they are going to announce more this evening than a simple re-iteration of what was always intended.
    Same with the exercise more than once per day - that was never the law in most of the country.

    Anyway the PMs most important job today isnt to convince me or even make the gradual relaxations to the lockdown, its to convince the British public to accept a significant end to the lockdown at the end of May. Without that happening the economic situation will get a lot worse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    TOPPING said:

    Is the government happy for you to go to the park and have a pizza with ten of your mates if you are all socially distant?
    That is how I read it too. But in PB Tory paradise it would appear to make perfect sense.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,674
    Like this.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    What I find slightly ironic is that in recent years everyone important was saying that suburbs were finished and central city living was the future.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,121

    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
  • EPG said:

    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.

    Back to work is good yes, if that is indeed the advice.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    EPG said:

    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.

    Channeling @FrancisUrquhart I would ask whether the SI will be amended.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854
    Very odd language from Johnson about "as we start to recover from coronavirus". There will almost certainly be more cases in the future than we've seen so far.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    Andy_JS said:

    What I find slightly ironic is that in recent years everyone important was saying that suburbs were finished and central city living was the future.

    The argument is there, but it is maybe not as self-evident as you think. Centre city dwellers now have less private open space, but more businesses that are open on a take-out basis rather than closed due to being sit-down. This was already the trade-off on offer to people choosing either option, so it's not clear that one group would prefer to be elsewhere.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    He's completely lost the plot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,674
    Andy_JS said:
    I think the parody in the title gives a clue it isn't the real Piers Morgan.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,854
    Andy_JS said:
    It's a parody account.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Very odd language from Johnson about "as we start to recover from coronavirus". There will almost certainly be more cases in the future than we've seen so far.

    From the current outbreak? With a good track and trace program it might be possible to keep a lid on it going forward.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,609
    tyson said:

    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    You could argue "stay at home" was just plain incorrect, as you are allowed out for a range of reasons including to go to work, exercise, to support others and to shop for provisions and other essential items.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,279
    EPG said:

    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.

    The 50% of the work force who have always been working might not be so keen on that one. And of the rest there are still plenty who cant go back to work and wont be able to for a while so doesnt work for them either.

    Back to work from this review is probably only around 5-10% of the workforce in companies who were allowed to be open anyway but chose to close, or those who kept going with a skeleton crew but are now ramping up a bit.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,279
    Andy_JS said:

    What I find slightly ironic is that in recent years everyone important was saying that suburbs were finished and central city living was the future.

    By the time everyone is saying it is the future it is generally the present. Suburbs vs cities always has been and is likely to stay part of long term cycles.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012
    edited May 2020
    Vulnerables: attention!  Others: at ease!
  • Allex2312Allex2312 Posts: 3
    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729

    The 50% of the work force who have always been working might not be so keen on that one. And of the rest there are still plenty who cant go back to work and wont be able to for a while so doesnt work for them either.

    Back to work from this review is probably only around 5-10% of the workforce in companies who were allowed to be open anyway but chose to close, or those who kept going with a skeleton crew but are now ramping up a bit.
    I've been working but I'm not dim so I understand what the slogan means. So what's the actual change, then?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,705
    tyson said:

    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325

    Very odd language from Johnson about "as we start to recover from coronavirus". There will almost certainly be more cases in the future than we've seen so far.

    Perhaps he is referring to the 'royal we'.

    I'm on the bus, Conductor ring the bell!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079
    TOPPING said:

    Is the government happy for you to go to the park and have a pizza with ten of your mates if you are all socially distant?
    If it doesn't increase the transmission rate, why would anyone object to that?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103
    Barnesian said:

    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
    Fanny Alert
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    The law was always work at home unless you cannot not do so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    It was shite Malc. It wasn't just untrue, it never could have been true, because the very idea of it is based on a fantasy persecution complex shared by some in Scotland that the 'English elite' hate crumblies in Dundee but love the ones in Doncaster. It's should trigger serious self-reflection for anyone reading it who couldn't smell the bullcrap.
    So the letters published were fake then.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    philiph said:

    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.
    It's meaningless in that you can't be alert to something for 8-24 months on end, but indeed most of the controversy is political: 1. it sounds like the government is alienating responsibility onto individuals; 2. it sounds like the free money is about to end.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    Is there a betting market for it? I think your estimate is a good one.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    When and where?

  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited May 2020

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    I think the 100,000 target itself is pretty arbitrary and so at one level whether the government has hit it or only come close to it is pretty meaningless.

    It matters though on another level. The government very clearly manipulated the figures to try and claim the target had been hit. So, because they've been caught telling porkies, we can't take anything else they say at face value.

    I think it's best to regard their briefings in large part as self-serving PR exercises. That seems to be the view of the expert whose article they manipulated to claim that comparisons could not be made with other countries.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/coronavirus-risk-young-staggeringly-low-says-uks-top-statistician/

    "Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter, chairman of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said he was concerned that the public’s anxiety ought to be “roughly proportional to the risks they face”.
    He made withering criticisms of the Government’s handling of the crisis, saying its treatment of statistics was “not trustworthy” and amounted to “number theatre” rather than an attempt to properly inform the public."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    Regardless of whether I think it's a good idea or not, Salmond is the only one who could get something like that going. Wings does seem to have gone off at the deep end; he seems more motivated by hatred of the SNP than anything else which doesn't really bode well for a party that's supposed to win list seats so it can push for indy 'with' the SNP and Greens (in fact he seems to hate the Greens even more). I think Wings has made noises about being in contact with Alex Salmond, whether that means anything I don't know.
    Yes if he had not got carried away with his ego and went totally doolally over SNP he had a lot of supporters and did a lot of good work but not a party leader for sure , hopefully something will come up to upset the status quo as we are going nowhere despite support getting higher and higher, quite bizarre.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Ecuador has recorded the most deaths so far today.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • Allex2312Allex2312 Posts: 3
    TOPPING said:

    The law was always work at home unless you cannot not do so.
    There is a different between 'cannot' and 'difficult to....'
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079
    TOPPING said:

    The law was always work at home unless you cannot not do so.
    For reference here is the law.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    geoffw said:

    When and where?

    Ministry of Propaganda Channel (BBC1) at the very least I would have thought
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited May 2020

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievancology.....

    I've no wish to set you Natonanists off again but you should probably have a word with Johnny about his grievanceology.

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1250410931206721536?s=20
    You still think PHE* strategic stocks should have been sent to Scotland?

    Entitled, much?

    *E = "England"

    You can hardly complain about unreliable journalists, then post one in your defence!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    Barnesian said:

    Is there a betting market for it? I think your estimate is a good one.
    LT 20 million
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    geoffw said:

    When and where?

    7.00pm national broadcast across the media
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287
    philiph said:

    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.
    Guaranteed the slogans been research tested to bits. Never forget, Twitter & the broadcasters aren't the population.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    I think their options are either:

    Stay at Home

    or

    Go out

    Nothing possible in between.....

  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    7.00pm national broadcast across the media
    Beth Rigby: "that's confusing"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    You can go out, just not out out.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    MaxPB said:

    Because we need people to see what is changing and understand it fully. A 7pm Sunday address to the nation will reach 60-70% of households, a 3pm commons debate might get 10% reach and then another 20-30% from secondary reporting.
    A TV address after the announcement to the Commons would be the right way to go. I am fed up with having a PM who thinks of our Parliament as some sort of optional extra.

    But apparently I’m in a minority on this. Though I’m in good company. Parliament’s Speaker agrees with me.

    Still, as I’ve learnt from the Boris fan club on here, an apparently minor tweak to government advice is the equivalent to the PM announcing the start or end of a major world war.

  • eekeek Posts: 29,739

    More Nat Onal grievancology..... You still think PHE* strategic stocks should have been sent to Scotland?

    Entitled, much?

    *E = "England"

    You can hardly complain about unreliable journalists, then post one in your defence!
    Question does such I think as Public Health Scotland or equivalent exist? and if it does, does it report to the a) Scottish Government or b) Public Health England

    As the answer to the first question is Yes, and the answer to the supplicant question is a, why was Public Health England supposed to be supplying PHS rather than PHE's own regions.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,677
    philiph said:



    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.

    I don't agree. Frankly if that's all we had, there's no need to say anything at all - obviously we'll be alert anyway, but if that's all the guidance then people will interpret it in all kinds of different ways for identical situations - just as we've seen in the lockdown. It would be a copout. However, let's not jump the gun - we'll see what BJ actually says.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    Cyclefree said:



    A TV address after the announcement to the Commons would be the right way to go. I am fed up with having a PM who thinks of our Parliament as some sort of optional extra.

    But apparently I’m in a minority on this. Though I’m in good company. Parliament’s Speaker agrees with me.

    Still, as I’ve learnt from the Boris fan club on here, an apparently minor tweak to government advice is the equivalent to the PM announcing the start or end of a major world war.

    To be fair I think tonight will be more than a minor tweak but some important announcements not least the closure of our borders, subject to 14 day quarantine, which Nicola did say she supports

    That is a big deal to be honest
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,279
    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,121

    You could argue "stay at home" was just plain incorrect, as you are allowed out for a range of reasons including to go to work, exercise, to support others and to shop for provisions and other essential items.
    The last message resonated because it had protect the NHS at the forefront.....

    Get Brexit Done...and Take Back Control were great slogans.......

    Clunk click every trip...or something like....that was good

    I think whether you like Staying Alert funnily enough depends on your political viewpoint...if you like it you will think Boris has done a good job, we locked down at the right time, it was right to spread the infection into care homes at such an alarming rate, and probably this coincides with thinking that Brexit is a good thing too...



  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103
    You fair like Agent Pish and their bollox tweets.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    eek said:

    Question does such I think as Public Health Scotland or equivalent exist? and if it does, does it report to the a) Scottish Government or b) Public Health England

    As the answer to the first question is Yes, and the answer to the supplicant question is a, why was Public Health England supposed to be supplying PHS rather than PHE's own regions.
    Health is devolved. Power, money and responsibility lie in Edinburgh. But some prefer to evade responsibility and blame England "Westminster" when things go wrong in Scotland.

    Westminster is not responsible for Scottish Health, Education or Policing, for example.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited May 2020
    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1259531284096917504?s=20

    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    No facing each other either - we expect to go back to less than 50% occupancy and even then not until late summer and gradually.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,681
    STAY ALERT
    CONTROL THE TORIES

    :innocent:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1259531284096917504?s=20

    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.

    Dumb posting dumber tweet, how dumb can a Tory be.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    So let's get it straight Pesto. The whole of England is uniformly at around 0.5 R?

    Unlock unlock! No that is nonsense.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Health is devolved. Power, money and responsibility lie in Edinburgh. But some prefer to evade responsibility and blame England "Westminster" when things go wrong in Scotland.

    Westminster is not responsible for Scottish Health, Education or Policing, for example.
    All things that have problems then..... go figure
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    malcolmg said:
    What's the "R" in Scotland, Malc?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1259531284096917504?s=20

    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.

    It could be simpler - Scotland and Wales have bungled testing. If you don't know who has the virus it's harder to stop them from spreading it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    What's the "R" in Scotland, Malc?
    If the R is too high she must know what it is, surely?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,279
    Floater said:

    No facing each other either - we expect to go back to less than 50% occupancy and even then not until late summer and gradually.
    For 18 desks youd hope it was something like 80 sq m plus, so assume 9m x 9m would comfortable fit 3 rows of 3 socially distanced to give 9 desks. 3 is very low.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1259531284096917504?s=20

    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.

    If only the government knew its Rs from its elbows.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    we're finding that it all transforms as more than the square. So 2m apart in a lecture theatre knocks out 8 seats per student.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    For 18 desks youd hope it was something like 80 sq m plus, so assume 9m x 9m would comfortable fit 3 rows of 3 socially distanced to give 9 desks. 3 is very low.
    And you could use a perspex screen as well.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    we're finding that it all transforms as more than the square. So 2m apart in a lecture theatre knocks out 8 seats per student.
    Not a problem for the higher-level courses. ;)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    It must be getting close to 7 pm. I can almost scent the aroma of bulls***.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076

    It must be getting close to 7 pm. I can almost scent the aroma of bulls***.

    Lockdown doesn't mean you musn't flush.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1259531284096917504?s=20

    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.

    I think that the ONS have been working estimating the number of people who have had COVID at any point, and releasing that today but cant find it, has anybody seen the estimate?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,279
    edited May 2020

    we're finding that it all transforms as more than the square. So 2m apart in a lecture theatre knocks out 8 seats per student.
    I was not a good university student but are lecture theatres actually needed any more? Cant those be delivered remotely and more time given to teacher-student contact in smaller groups?

    Saves a whole load of time for lecturers as it can be re-used for multiple courses, allows students choice of when to do the lecture and saves on space too.

    Most importantly its easier to learn when actually interacting rather than just listening.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,079
    tyson said:

    The last message resonated because it had protect the NHS at the forefront.....

    Get Brexit Done...and Take Back Control were great slogans.......

    Clunk click every trip...or something like....that was good

    I think whether you like Staying Alert funnily enough depends on your political viewpoint...if you like it you will think Boris has done a good job, we locked down at the right time, it was right to spread the infection into care homes at such an alarming rate, and probably this coincides with thinking that Brexit is a good thing too...
    Whether you're a brother or whether you're a mother
    You're stayin' alert, stayin' alert
    Feel the city breakin' and everybody shakin'
    And we're stayin' alert, stayin' alert
    Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alert, stayin' alert
    Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alert
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076

    What's the "R" in Scotland, Malc?
    It's a rolled R.
This discussion has been closed.