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  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,680

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    I'd be more interested in if they are being used effectively or not. But HMG have succeeded in distracting people by convincing them the total number is the one and only metric to measure success in this area.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,105

    And 'Stay Alert' is fine.

    It's a good slogan for the next phase. There's a lot of echo chamber party politicking going on. There's also sheer fear. People are being steered away from their 80% furlough money to a world where you might catch something which kills you.

    That's why there's a backlash. Not the slogan. The concept.

    Nonsense, they have chosen a random word that has nothing to do with the messaging.

    Im in favour of gradual relaxation of the lockdown, so not saying this because I disagree with the concept at all.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,123
    So funny


  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,398
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nicola live just now seems to admit the R range is high and she cannot change the advice. I do not know but maybe Wales is the same and of course this complicates the position

    Nicola expects difference to the advice post Boris speech tonight will be minor

    Boris has to look to the advice and as far as I am concerned stay alert is sensible and I am not sure that the conflicting advice will be that helpful to the first ministers as many seem to think

    It will of course be best to align the processes but Nicola does not want stay alert advertising in Scotland. There are real dangers here for Nicola to be painting Scotland's present position to be poor and of course the NHS in Scotland is her responsibility

    What does stay alert actually mean? Stay at home means stay at home.

    Nicola doesn't have to explain her position other than acknowledging she has erred on the side of caution. She may well be wrong and Boris may well be right. When the post Covid political post mortems are in Nicola can say she was wrong, the already shot economy might take a little longer to recover but she felt the risk was worth it if it saved lives. If the opposite turns out to be true Boris will have rather a lot of fatalities to justify.
    Stay alert is a sensible move away from stay at home

    However, Nicola is admitting Scotland is de facto in a worse position than England
    G, you must be deaf or did not hear what she said, we are at different stages given England got their infections weeks before Scotland so by any measure we are 2-3 weeks behind. Still if you look at the numbers per capita then Scotland's death rate is currently well below England. How did you deduce it was worse.
    Malc.

    I have not mentioned death rates at anytime

    I listened to Nicola and she was frank Scotland's R number is too high

    It is clear that the UK may need to diverge at different speeds but that has it's own problems, especially for those living near the borders of the devolved adminstration
    G it was criticism for the sake of it , she state what was good for Scotland and border is easily closed , only a few roads.
    It is not going to come to closing borders
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    "The government has simply not made up its mind what it expects of its citizens."

    We do not belong to the government, they belong to us.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,123

    And 'Stay Alert' is fine.

    It's a good slogan for the next phase. There's a lot of echo chamber party politicking going on. There's also sheer fear. People are being steered away from their 80% furlough money to a world where you might catch something which kills you.

    That's why there's a backlash. Not the slogan. The concept.

    Nonsense, they have chosen a random word that has nothing to do with the messaging.

    Im in favour of gradual relaxation of the lockdown, so not saying this because I disagree with the concept at all.
    Nonsense to you too.

    Stay Alert is fine.

    It's a shift for people to get out of lockdown mindset into a world where they still need to be vigilant. Alert, in other words. Hygiene, social distancing, personal protection. These are the long term goals for a country returning to a semblance of normality.

    I don't mind criticising the Gov't but this is frankly pathetic.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,278

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 2,888
    edited May 10

    Stocky said:

    OK. Serious suggestion for a better slogan:

    Follow the Rules


    Although I do prefer 'Careful Now'.

    Don't see why it needs changing at all frankly.
    The deaths have come down steadily and significantly and we need to get the economy going again and the cost of the furlough scheme will fast run out of control (if it hasn`t already). Only ease lockdown cautiously and incrementally - keeping NHS within capacity - which was the stated aim of lockdown in the first place - I think that`s the plan.
    They're still far too high to be doing anything like going back to normal.
    I agree - no one is saying "back to normal" - but deaths are down to 250 per day max (NHS England only) from 880 + a month ago and falling daily. How low should they go before we ease off. Slightly, even?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,942

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    If anyone was 'shamefaced' over that incident it certainly wasn't John Rentoul.
    You're right, it should have been Andra blusteringly unrepentant Neil that had the real beamer. Though tbf it would be difficult to tell if a girlish blush did appear on that pan.
    You shock me. I was anticipating a searing excoriation of the tosspots working for the Nationalist rag for spreading divisive propaganda based on the fact that NHS England's PPE stocks were *horrors* earmarked for NHS England's care homes. Not to mention the lunatic student politicians masquerading as a Government who made hay with the story.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223
    eadric said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    Apart from Alex Salmond bringing her down.
    True but that will not impact the SNP waltzing the election , likely just make victory even bigger.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,320
    This sounds like the same syndrome @foxinsoxuk has described.

  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,123
    edited May 10
    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    I hear that hospital with no patients is breaking all records for cleanliness.


    If you are going to need A&E you better hope you are in Scotland.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,942
    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    Apart from Alex Salmond bringing her down.
    True but that will not impact the SNP waltzing the election , likely just make victory even bigger.
    I think you're underestimating Nicola Sturgeon's personal impact there Malc. Who are the alternatives? Salmond? Cherry? Not a pretty picture.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    I hear that hospital with no patients is breaking all records for cleanliness.


    Bit like the Nightingales then , or the 40 that will never be built.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    LOL good old Tories , did it matter if you lost one leg or two legs and an arm
  • Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    I wonder if Labour would get the same reaction.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,158

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    Is the government happy for you to go to the park and have a pizza with ten of your mates if you are all socially distant?
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    I hear that hospital with no patients is breaking all records for cleanliness.


    Bit like the Nightingales then , or the 40 that will never be built.
    Or the Sick Kids Hospital in Edinburgh? ;-)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 21,117
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    You tempted at all by the new indy party Malc? I can't even tell if the one that's floating around this weekend is the one and only or if there will be several. All seems a bit messy in any case.
    Lots of noise about at minute TUD but no real big hitters or money involved yet. I think SNP are only hope at present but if polls remain where they are then 2nd vote is definitely better going elsewhere for sure.
    Think this is last chance saloon for current leadership if they last till election , they do not seem very interested in their main purpose. If they do not make this next one a referendum then they will be toppled, too many careerists and chancers at top now. I will see what happens in near future, my preference would be to see Salmond involved with any new party in some fashion even if not taking a front seat.
    The Rev seems to have lost the plot completely of late as well so not sure which way it will go and without a figurehead I do not see an alternative getting far.
    Regardless of whether I think it's a good idea or not, Salmond is the only one who could get something like that going. Wings does seem to have gone off at the deep end; he seems more motivated by hatred of the SNP than anything else which doesn't really bode well for a party that's supposed to win list seats so it can push for indy 'with' the SNP and Greens (in fact he seems to hate the Greens even more). I think Wings has made noises about being in contact with Alex Salmond, whether that means anything I don't know.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223

    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    Apart from Alex Salmond bringing her down.
    True but that will not impact the SNP waltzing the election , likely just make victory even bigger.
    I think you're underestimating Nicola Sturgeon's personal impact there Malc. Who are the alternatives? Salmond? Cherry? Not a pretty picture.
    They have no opposition , I could take the job and win the election, running rings round Carcrash , Wee wullie winkie and Leonard would be simple.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,166

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 2,888
    Barnesian said:

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
    "Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible" was the government`s advice in the first place!. I hope they are going to announce more this evening than a simple re-iteration of what was always intended.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,942
    malcolmg said:

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    If anyone was 'shamefaced' over that incident it certainly wasn't John Rentoul.
    He made a right clown of himself , it was all in the public letters , despite Leitch trying to be polite and say it was rubbish. We also know orders have been given not to help Scotland get any PPE from abroad as well.
    It was shite Malc. It wasn't just untrue, it never could have been true, because the very idea of it is based on a fantasy persecution complex shared by some in Scotland that the 'English elite' hate crumblies in Dundee but love the ones in Doncaster. It's should trigger serious self-reflection for anyone reading it who couldn't smell the bullcrap.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,137

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    It is a poor change of emphasis. Even Boris knows that now. Boris would rather bluff it out than backpedal furiously, so now he has to live with the consequences.

    Which is it? A deliberate return to herd immunisation or Boris' loose tongue at PMQs allowing the agenda to run away from him?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,166
    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
    "Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible" was the government`s advice in the first place!. I hope they are going to announce more this evening than a simple re-iteration of what was always intended.
    It was Stay Home with detailed rules about hours of exercise and no sunbathing and whether you could use a car. The aim is to reduce transmission. The message should be use your common sense to achieve that. Imagine every surface and every person is covered in green radio-active slime. Keep your distance and wash your hands. But of course you can sunbathe, or chat to your neighbour over the fence. You don't have to robotically just Stay Home. Think, and Stay Alert.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,105
    Stocky said:

    Barnesian said:

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
    "Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible" was the government`s advice in the first place!. I hope they are going to announce more this evening than a simple re-iteration of what was always intended.
    Same with the exercise more than once per day - that was never the law in most of the country.

    Anyway the PMs most important job today isnt to convince me or even make the gradual relaxations to the lockdown, its to convince the British public to accept a significant end to the lockdown at the end of May. Without that happening the economic situation will get a lot worse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,137
    TOPPING said:

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    Is the government happy for you to go to the park and have a pizza with ten of your mates if you are all socially distant?
    That is how I read it too. But in PB Tory paradise it would appear to make perfect sense.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 82,979
    Like this.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,469
    What I find slightly ironic is that in recent years everyone important was saying that suburbs were finished and central city living was the future.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,538
    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,976

    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
  • EPG said:

    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.

    Back to work is good yes, if that is indeed the advice.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,158
    EPG said:

    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.

    Channeling @FrancisUrquhart I would ask whether the SI will be amended.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,320
    Very odd language from Johnson about "as we start to recover from coronavirus". There will almost certainly be more cases in the future than we've seen so far.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,538
    Andy_JS said:

    What I find slightly ironic is that in recent years everyone important was saying that suburbs were finished and central city living was the future.

    The argument is there, but it is maybe not as self-evident as you think. Centre city dwellers now have less private open space, but more businesses that are open on a take-out basis rather than closed due to being sit-down. This was already the trade-off on offer to people choosing either option, so it's not clear that one group would prefer to be elsewhere.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,469
    He's completely lost the plot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 82,979
    Andy_JS said:

    He's completely lost the plot.
    I think the parody in the title gives a clue it isn't the real Piers Morgan.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,320
    Andy_JS said:

    He's completely lost the plot.
    It's a parody account.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,680

    Very odd language from Johnson about "as we start to recover from coronavirus". There will almost certainly be more cases in the future than we've seen so far.

    From the current outbreak? With a good track and trace program it might be possible to keep a lid on it going forward.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 3,335
    tyson said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    You could argue "stay at home" was just plain incorrect, as you are allowed out for a range of reasons including to go to work, exercise, to support others and to shop for provisions and other essential items.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,105
    EPG said:

    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.

    The 50% of the work force who have always been working might not be so keen on that one. And of the rest there are still plenty who cant go back to work and wont be able to for a while so doesnt work for them either.

    Back to work from this review is probably only around 5-10% of the workforce in companies who were allowed to be open anyway but chose to close, or those who kept going with a skeleton crew but are now ramping up a bit.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,105
    Andy_JS said:

    What I find slightly ironic is that in recent years everyone important was saying that suburbs were finished and central city living was the future.

    By the time everyone is saying it is the future it is generally the present. Suburbs vs cities always has been and is likely to stay part of long term cycles.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 4,007
    edited May 10
    Vulnerables: attention!  Others: at ease!
  • Allex2312Allex2312 Posts: 3
    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,538

    EPG said:

    I would have said "Back to Work". That is what the change means. Anything fun like pub or holiday is still banned, but you now have to go out and work unless there is good reason to presume otherwise.

    The 50% of the work force who have always been working might not be so keen on that one. And of the rest there are still plenty who cant go back to work and wont be able to for a while so doesnt work for them either.

    Back to work from this review is probably only around 5-10% of the workforce in companies who were allowed to be open anyway but chose to close, or those who kept going with a skeleton crew but are now ramping up a bit.
    I've been working but I'm not dim so I understand what the slogan means. So what's the actual change, then?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,263
    tyson said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,137

    Very odd language from Johnson about "as we start to recover from coronavirus". There will almost certainly be more cases in the future than we've seen so far.

    Perhaps he is referring to the 'royal we'.

    I'm on the bus, Conductor ring the bell!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,166
    TOPPING said:

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    Is the government happy for you to go to the park and have a pizza with ten of your mates if you are all socially distant?
    If it doesn't increase the transmission rate, why would anyone object to that?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223
    Barnesian said:

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Easy. Go to work if you can, but that work should be at home if its possible.

    Its a loosening of the stay at home message but still an emphasis of being at home more but not being a prisoner of your own home - and be alert to the risks when you leave.

    What about that don't you understand? Which bit are you struggling with? Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    The government is moving from treating us as children who can only understand simple commands to treating us as sensible adults who can think for themselves given sufficient information.

    Some people evidentally can't cope with that. I welcome it.
    Fanny Alert
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,398
    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,158
    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    The law was always work at home unless you cannot not do so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223

    malcolmg said:

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    If anyone was 'shamefaced' over that incident it certainly wasn't John Rentoul.
    He made a right clown of himself , it was all in the public letters , despite Leitch trying to be polite and say it was rubbish. We also know orders have been given not to help Scotland get any PPE from abroad as well.
    It was shite Malc. It wasn't just untrue, it never could have been true, because the very idea of it is based on a fantasy persecution complex shared by some in Scotland that the 'English elite' hate crumblies in Dundee but love the ones in Doncaster. It's should trigger serious self-reflection for anyone reading it who couldn't smell the bullcrap.
    So the letters published were fake then.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,538
    philiph said:

    tyson said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.
    It's meaningless in that you can't be alert to something for 8-24 months on end, but indeed most of the controversy is political: 1. it sounds like the government is alienating responsibility onto individuals; 2. it sounds like the free money is about to end.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,166

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    Is there a betting market for it? I think your estimate is a good one.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 4,007

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    When and where?

  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 2,981
    edited May 10

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    I think the 100,000 target itself is pretty arbitrary and so at one level whether the government has hit it or only come close to it is pretty meaningless.

    It matters though on another level. The government very clearly manipulated the figures to try and claim the target had been hit. So, because they've been caught telling porkies, we can't take anything else they say at face value.

    I think it's best to regard their briefings in large part as self-serving PR exercises. That seems to be the view of the expert whose article they manipulated to claim that comparisons could not be made with other countries.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/10/coronavirus-risk-young-staggeringly-low-says-uks-top-statistician/

    "Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter, chairman of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said he was concerned that the public’s anxiety ought to be “roughly proportional to the risks they face”.
    He made withering criticisms of the Government’s handling of the crisis, saying its treatment of statistics was “not trustworthy” and amounted to “number theatre” rather than an attempt to properly inform the public."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    It is becoming fairly stark in this conference that Nicola is admitting Scotland is in a worse position than England

    Health care is devolved isn't it?
    Yes and that is a real problem for her
    The Scottish NHS is doing very well, and it has done better than English and Welsh equivalents over last few years. Not perfect but good job being done. Imaginary problems for SNP are laughable, look at the polls , they are on an ever rising slope after 13 years in power. I doubt Nicola will have much to worry about going into next election.
    You tempted at all by the new indy party Malc? I can't even tell if the one that's floating around this weekend is the one and only or if there will be several. All seems a bit messy in any case.
    Lots of noise about at minute TUD but no real big hitters or money involved yet. I think SNP are only hope at present but if polls remain where they are then 2nd vote is definitely better going elsewhere for sure.
    Think this is last chance saloon for current leadership if they last till election , they do not seem very interested in their main purpose. If they do not make this next one a referendum then they will be toppled, too many careerists and chancers at top now. I will see what happens in near future, my preference would be to see Salmond involved with any new party in some fashion even if not taking a front seat.
    The Rev seems to have lost the plot completely of late as well so not sure which way it will go and without a figurehead I do not see an alternative getting far.
    Regardless of whether I think it's a good idea or not, Salmond is the only one who could get something like that going. Wings does seem to have gone off at the deep end; he seems more motivated by hatred of the SNP than anything else which doesn't really bode well for a party that's supposed to win list seats so it can push for indy 'with' the SNP and Greens (in fact he seems to hate the Greens even more). I think Wings has made noises about being in contact with Alex Salmond, whether that means anything I don't know.
    Yes if he had not got carried away with his ego and went totally doolally over SNP he had a lot of supporters and did a lot of good work but not a party leader for sure , hopefully something will come up to upset the status quo as we are going nowhere despite support getting higher and higher, quite bizarre.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,469
    Ecuador has recorded the most deaths so far today.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • Allex2312Allex2312 Posts: 3
    TOPPING said:

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    The law was always work at home unless you cannot not do so.
    There is a different between 'cannot' and 'difficult to....'
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,166
    TOPPING said:

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    The law was always work at home unless you cannot not do so.
    For reference here is the law.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/pdfs/uksi_20200350_en.pdf
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,137
    geoffw said:

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    When and where?

    Ministry of Propaganda Channel (BBC1) at the very least I would have thought
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,077
    edited May 10

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievancology.....

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievanceology.....
    I've no wish to set you Natonanists off again but you should probably have a word with Johnny about his grievanceology.

    You still think PHE* strategic stocks should have been sent to Scotland?

    Entitled, much?

    *E = "England"

    You can hardly complain about unreliable journalists, then post one in your defence!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 14,826
    Barnesian said:

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    Is there a betting market for it? I think your estimate is a good one.
    LT 20 million
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,398
    geoffw said:

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    When and where?

    7.00pm national broadcast across the media
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287
    philiph said:

    tyson said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.
    Guaranteed the slogans been research tested to bits. Never forget, Twitter & the broadcasters aren't the population.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,077

    That's some level of metaphysical shit going on there. Or just a lot of stoopid.

    I await in awe for the PB Tories to rationally explain Jenrick's apparant contradiction.
    Some people here seem to want either all black or all white.
    I think their options are either:

    Stay at Home

    or

    Go out

    Nothing possible in between.....

  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 954

    geoffw said:

    How many will listen to Boris tonight

    I estimate 22-24 million

    Anyone think more or less ?

    When and where?

    7.00pm national broadcast across the media
    Beth Rigby: "that's confusing"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 60,366
    You can go out, just not out out.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 17,920
    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    On topic, we have poor decision-making because the government and the party from which it is formed is too much of a personality cult around Boris. And Boris himself is not exactly someone with much experience of effective implementation of anything, commercial or economic understanding or an attention to detail. His skills are not the ones you need at such a time. And he does not have a strong Cabinet around him.

    Add to that the fact that he may not be at his best and it is not surprising that we are not well governed and that we are being briefed on a speech on a Sunday evening rather than a proper announcement to Parliament.

    Of course he should get better properly. Whether a fit Boris would be any more effective than now, God knows. I don’t get the impression that anyone in government really knows what they are doing or is prepared to be honest with us.

    I’m usually a stickler for constitutional proprietary.

    But on this occasion the PM should be speaking to the nation, live. It’s too important.

    He should, of course, follow up with a statement to Parliament on Monday with MPs having the opportunity to hold him to account.
    Why? Parliament on Monday. Then a TV address if needed.

    This is all about making it about him and avoiding scrutiny. It is too important for him to be allowed to get away with it.
    How will he be getting away with it? Either it's a TV announcement or a announcement in the Commons, nothing in the package would be different.
    Scrutiny and questioning. We are a Parliamentary democracy. Changes to the regulations under which we live, on pain of criminal enforcement, should be announced to Parliament and the PM should answer questions about them.
    That'll still happen this week, won't it?
    Will it?

    Why the need for a TV speech at all? Budgets get announced in Parliament. Why should this be any different?

    He’s not the Queen.
    Because we need people to see what is changing and understand it fully. A 7pm Sunday address to the nation will reach 60-70% of households, a 3pm commons debate might get 10% reach and then another 20-30% from secondary reporting.
    A TV address after the announcement to the Commons would be the right way to go. I am fed up with having a PM who thinks of our Parliament as some sort of optional extra.

    But apparently I’m in a minority on this. Though I’m in good company. Parliament’s Speaker agrees with me.

    Still, as I’ve learnt from the Boris fan club on here, an apparently minor tweak to government advice is the equivalent to the PM announcing the start or end of a major world war.

  • eekeek Posts: 8,652

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievancology.....

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievanceology.....
    I've no wish to set you Natonanists off again but you should probably have a word with Johnny about his grievanceology.

    You still think PHE* strategic stocks should have been sent to Scotland?

    Entitled, much?

    *E = "England"

    You can hardly complain about unreliable journalists, then post one in your defence!
    Question does such I think as Public Health Scotland or equivalent exist? and if it does, does it report to the a) Scottish Government or b) Public Health England

    As the answer to the first question is Yes, and the answer to the supplicant question is a, why was Public Health England supposed to be supplying PHS rather than PHE's own regions.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 14,680
    philiph said:



    It is flexible and therefore applicable on a personal level.

    Someone self isolating knows what it means.
    If you are shopping you know what it means.
    On public transport you know what it means.
    At work you know wfh or 2m
    In social groups you know what is required

    It suits multiple people in multiple diverse situations. It requires adults to behave like adults. For some that seems too much to ask. Poor people.

    I don't agree. Frankly if that's all we had, there's no need to say anything at all - obviously we'll be alert anyway, but if that's all the guidance then people will interpret it in all kinds of different ways for identical situations - just as we've seen in the lockdown. It would be a copout. However, let's not jump the gun - we'll see what BJ actually says.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,398
    Cyclefree said:



    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    On topic, we have poor decision-making because the government and the party from which it is formed is too much of a personality cult around Boris. And Boris himself is not exactly someone with much experience of effective implementation of anything, commercial or economic understanding or an attention to detail. His skills are not the ones you need at such a time. And he does not have a strong Cabinet around him.

    Add to that the fact that he may not be at his best and it is not surprising that we are not well governed and that we are being briefed on a speech on a Sunday evening rather than a proper announcement to Parliament.

    Of course he should get better properly. Whether a fit Boris would be any more effective than now, God knows. I don’t get the impression that anyone in government really knows what they are doing or is prepared to be honest with us.

    I’m usually a stickler for constitutional proprietary.

    But on this occasion the PM should be speaking to the nation, live. It’s too important.

    He should, of course, follow up with a statement to Parliament on Monday with MPs having the opportunity to hold him to account.
    Why? Parliament on Monday. Then a TV address if needed.

    This is all about making it about him and avoiding scrutiny. It is too important for him to be allowed to get away with it.
    How will he be getting away with it? Either it's a TV announcement or a announcement in the Commons, nothing in the package would be different.
    Scrutiny and questioning. We are a Parliamentary democracy. Changes to the regulations under which we live, on pain of criminal enforcement, should be announced to Parliament and the PM should answer questions about them.
    That'll still happen this week, won't it?
    Will it?

    Why the need for a TV speech at all? Budgets get announced in Parliament. Why should this be any different?

    He’s not the Queen.
    Because we need people to see what is changing and understand it fully. A 7pm Sunday address to the nation will reach 60-70% of households, a 3pm commons debate might get 10% reach and then another 20-30% from secondary reporting.
    A TV address after the announcement to the Commons would be the right way to go. I am fed up with having a PM who thinks of our Parliament as some sort of optional extra.

    But apparently I’m in a minority on this. Though I’m in good company. Parliament’s Speaker agrees with me.

    Still, as I’ve learnt from the Boris fan club on here, an apparently minor tweak to government advice is the equivalent to the PM announcing the start or end of a major world war.

    To be fair I think tonight will be more than a minor tweak but some important announcements not least the closure of our borders, subject to 14 day quarantine, which Nicola did say she supports

    That is a big deal to be honest
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,105
    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,976

    tyson said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    You could argue "stay at home" was just plain incorrect, as you are allowed out for a range of reasons including to go to work, exercise, to support others and to shop for provisions and other essential items.
    The last message resonated because it had protect the NHS at the forefront.....

    Get Brexit Done...and Take Back Control were great slogans.......

    Clunk click every trip...or something like....that was good

    I think whether you like Staying Alert funnily enough depends on your political viewpoint...if you like it you will think Boris has done a good job, we locked down at the right time, it was right to spread the infection into care homes at such an alarming rate, and probably this coincides with thinking that Brexit is a good thing too...



  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223
    You fair like Agent Pish and their bollox tweets.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,077
    eek said:

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievancology.....

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievanceology.....
    I've no wish to set you Natonanists off again but you should probably have a word with Johnny about his grievanceology.

    You still think PHE* strategic stocks should have been sent to Scotland?

    Entitled, much?

    *E = "England"

    You can hardly complain about unreliable journalists, then post one in your defence!
    Question does such I think as Public Health Scotland or equivalent exist? and if it does, does it report to the a) Scottish Government or b) Public Health England

    As the answer to the first question is Yes, and the answer to the supplicant question is a, why was Public Health England supposed to be supplying PHS rather than PHE's own regions.
    Health is devolved. Power, money and responsibility lie in Edinburgh. But some prefer to evade responsibility and blame England "Westminster" when things go wrong in Scotland.

    Westminster is not responsible for Scottish Health, Education or Policing, for example.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,077
    edited May 10


    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,398
    Hasn't Peston heard of averages !!!!!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,961

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    No facing each other either - we expect to go back to less than 50% occupancy and even then not until late summer and gradually.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,026
    STAY ALERT
    CONTROL THE TORIES

    :innocent:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 29,223



    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.
    Dumb posting dumber tweet, how dumb can a Tory be.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,137
    So let's get it straight Pesto. The whole of England is uniformly at around 0.5 R?

    Unlock unlock! No that is nonsense.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,961

    eek said:

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievancology.....

    John Rentoul who had to shamefacedly admit that English PPE companies had made garbled and conflicting statements about only supplying England? Cast iron, solid source on such matters.
    More Nat Onal grievanceology.....
    I've no wish to set you Natonanists off again but you should probably have a word with Johnny about his grievanceology.

    You still think PHE* strategic stocks should have been sent to Scotland?

    Entitled, much?

    *E = "England"

    You can hardly complain about unreliable journalists, then post one in your defence!
    Question does such I think as Public Health Scotland or equivalent exist? and if it does, does it report to the a) Scottish Government or b) Public Health England

    As the answer to the first question is Yes, and the answer to the supplicant question is a, why was Public Health England supposed to be supplying PHS rather than PHE's own regions.
    Health is devolved. Power, money and responsibility lie in Edinburgh. But some prefer to evade responsibility and blame England "Westminster" when things go wrong in Scotland.

    Westminster is not responsible for Scottish Health, Education or Policing, for example.
    All things that have problems then..... go figure
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,077
    malcolmg said:

    You fair like Agent Pish and their bollox tweets.
    What's the "R" in Scotland, Malc?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 1,239



    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.
    It could be simpler - Scotland and Wales have bungled testing. If you don't know who has the virus it's harder to stop them from spreading it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,680

    malcolmg said:

    You fair like Agent Pish and their bollox tweets.
    What's the "R" in Scotland, Malc?
    If the R is too high she must know what it is, surely?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,105
    Floater said:

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    No facing each other either - we expect to go back to less than 50% occupancy and even then not until late summer and gradually.
    For 18 desks youd hope it was something like 80 sq m plus, so assume 9m x 9m would comfortable fit 3 rows of 3 socially distanced to give 9 desks. 3 is very low.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,265



    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.
    If only the government knew its Rs from its elbows.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 954

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    we're finding that it all transforms as more than the square. So 2m apart in a lecture theatre knocks out 8 seats per student.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,680

    Floater said:

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    No facing each other either - we expect to go back to less than 50% occupancy and even then not until late summer and gradually.
    For 18 desks youd hope it was something like 80 sq m plus, so assume 9m x 9m would comfortable fit 3 rows of 3 socially distanced to give 9 desks. 3 is very low.
    And you could use a perspex screen as well.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,680

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    we're finding that it all transforms as more than the square. So 2m apart in a lecture theatre knocks out 8 seats per student.
    Not a problem for the higher-level courses. ;)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,137
    It must be getting close to 7 pm. I can almost scent the aroma of bulls***.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 3,113

    It must be getting close to 7 pm. I can almost scent the aroma of bulls***.

    Lockdown doesn't mean you musn't flush.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 1,614



    The issue is there are several "R"s.

    In the community its probably comfortably below 1, in Hospitals and most of all Care Homes its probably close to or above 1 - so unless both of those are got and kept under control it risks spilling back out into the community and a second peak.

    Scotland and Wales have a Care Home problem (or possibly know they have one, England's is either improving or out of control under the radar) that so far may not yet be under control.

    And if its like the Spanish flu, the second wave went after the young and healthy.
    I think that the ONS have been working estimating the number of people who have had COVID at any point, and releasing that today but cant find it, has anybody seen the estimate?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,105
    edited May 10

    Allex2312 said:

    I think the debate today has shown that people who say 'treat us like adults', can't be treated by adults. A practical change that is coming for me is my office has been redesigned to reduce the number of desks to allow distancing. In my area we're going from 18 desks to 3. Most people who can work from home will continue to do so, but those who have been struggling with IT or live in shared homes that are difficult to work in now have a different option. This is now not a blanket 'stay home', nuance is needed. Unfortunately some people can't cope with that.

    Interested how they got from 18 desks to 3? Thats a bigger reduction than would seem needed to be 2m apart?
    we're finding that it all transforms as more than the square. So 2m apart in a lecture theatre knocks out 8 seats per student.
    I was not a good university student but are lecture theatres actually needed any more? Cant those be delivered remotely and more time given to teacher-student contact in smaller groups?

    Saves a whole load of time for lecturers as it can be re-used for multiple courses, allows students choice of when to do the lecture and saves on space too.

    Most importantly its easier to learn when actually interacting rather than just listening.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,166
    tyson said:

    tyson said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Does it matter? 90,000 or 110,000 ... the point is we're now getting more done.
    But the government promised 100,000 tests, not 99,999 or 100,001 and we are going to keep on mindlessly repeating 100,000, 100,000, 100,000 until we are blue in the face as if it actually means anything to anyone at all beyond the nakedly partisan.
    Quite

    I'm pretty anti-tory and left-of-centre but I know when to pick my battles. Neither that nor 'Stay Alert' are even remotely worthy of the effort of criticism.

    We need to get the country going again. Slowly, carefully and whilst staying alert.

    End of.
    The problem is "staying alert" is just a meaningless slogan...it's not overly offensive....We may as well have Ed's stone, or Hancock's 5 Pillars...it just an easy target for the press to extract the urine and make the Govt look incompetent....
    You could argue "stay at home" was just plain incorrect, as you are allowed out for a range of reasons including to go to work, exercise, to support others and to shop for provisions and other essential items.
    The last message resonated because it had protect the NHS at the forefront.....

    Get Brexit Done...and Take Back Control were great slogans.......

    Clunk click every trip...or something like....that was good

    I think whether you like Staying Alert funnily enough depends on your political viewpoint...if you like it you will think Boris has done a good job, we locked down at the right time, it was right to spread the infection into care homes at such an alarming rate, and probably this coincides with thinking that Brexit is a good thing too...
    Whether you're a brother or whether you're a mother
    You're stayin' alert, stayin' alert
    Feel the city breakin' and everybody shakin'
    And we're stayin' alert, stayin' alert
    Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alert, stayin' alert
    Ah, ha, ha, ha, stayin' alert
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 3,113

    malcolmg said:

    You fair like Agent Pish and their bollox tweets.
    What's the "R" in Scotland, Malc?
    It's a rolled R.
This discussion has been closed.