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  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,275

    One imagines that, if there's one place in the country where this disease feels less like a horror movie and more like all our Christmases come at once, it's Graun Towers. This illness picks on non-white people, old and sick people, obese people, poor people. It's very nearly every -ist and -phobic rolled into one: they only need evidence that it massacres transexuals and they've got the complete set. And that's before we get to the outright deification of the NHS, and the Government having to hose down the economy with hundreds of billions in borrowed money, prop up half the entire private sector with state aid, and possibly be left to contemplate vast tax rises and a universal basic income further down the line.

    Their underwear must be so sticky from all those orgasms that they need industrial strength solvent to help peel it off.
    Maybe they have got "the complete set". Transexuals have had their genital mutilation surgeries postponed due to covid.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332
    kle4 said:

    The public sector didn't deliver. If was just PHE labs, they barely increased testing or capacity. It was the decision to finally get the private sector involved that massively expanded this.

    And for all the criticism over spinning to get it over the line, not doubt massoive increase, unlike Scotland and Wales, who nobody seems to be criticising.

    Wales promised 5k tests a day, then just gave up after a week.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Mr. Owls, you could make similar statistical claims, for what they're worth, about France, Spain, or Italy.

    The trend is a good one. It's moving in the right direction. It's good news.

    Yeah but, its a TORY government in the UK
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    Oh God yes, the bloody clapping. Having to justify to people why you won't open the front door and stand outside banging a frying pan with a wooden spoon and making wailing noises every Thursday at 8pm. Cos if you don't emote loudly and publicly enough it means you DON'T CARE, and are therefore a heartless Tory deserving of a slow, painful and lingering death.

    I've had to argue the toss with my own mother over the stupid bloody clapping. One more thing about the present miserable situation I'll be glad to see the back of, whichever month/year it's finally over.
    In Scotland clapping is now being accused of being a Tory thing. I don't think this sense of togetherness of the peoples of the entire UK has been welcomed in some quarters. Makes me a bit ambivalent.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Are checked shirts OK?

    Asking for a friend
    Is your friend a lumberjack?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited May 2020

    Yes, all those Scottish officers forced unwillingly to go and serve in the British army over two centuries. You can do a sensible class based analysis of where wealth was distributed for the whole of the UK but a nationalistic grudge viewpoint is nonsense historically. All nationalisms are sustained by myths but the Scottish Nationalism that exists today is a modern concoction based on a total denial of Scottish history. Modern Scotland evolved within the union. Scottish nationalism must be the only variety that denies some of the greatest triumphs of its nation - because they took place under the hated union.
    I really can't agree. There has been a great revival of interest in Scottish history over the last few decades in aprallel with the rise of interest in independence. One only need look at bookshops, or a run of the National to find articles about the triumps, as you put it, as well as the mess-ups - it's all history to be remembered and commemorated - but not celebrated.

    That latter contrast is perhaps the root of the difference I find most striking between mainstream Scottish nationalism (or rather self-determinationism) and British/English nationalism (as manifest in the last few years most obviously) is the former's almost complete omission of historical references in public discourse. You just don't get Ms Sturgeon going on about Saltires and the claymore, for instance, or the Clearances lowland or otherwise. But just look at almost any speech by Mr Johnson - or Mr Cameron before him. It's all Somme, Agincourt, WW2, WW2 again, Spitfires, Blitz spirit etc. etc. It's a very, very noticeable difference. One is very much looking to the future, but what is one to make of the other?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332
    If test, track and trace is going to be successful, we cant have Scotland and Wales just not testing, unless we are going to build borders and shut them off.

    Wales has a big hotspot if CV in Cardiff, yet they are still doing bugger all testing
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    Are checked shirts OK?

    Asking for a friend
    If you need to ask...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    DavidL said:

    In Scotland clapping is now being accused of being a Tory thing. I don't think this sense of togetherness of the peoples of the entire UK has been welcomed in some quarters. Makes me a bit ambivalent.
    Presumably the attempt to turn it into a clap for Boris [sic] did not help.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Speaking of nationalist myths, a persistent British nationalist/Unionist myth appears to simultaneously believe that Scotland benefited and still benefits hugely from being part of the Union, and yet among smallish, well educated European nations with developed & diverse industries, substantial natural resources and stable civic polities, is uniquely ill suited to independence. Even smarter Unionists seem unable to square this circle in their own heads, let alone to my satisfaction.
    It doesn't seem to be impossible to conceive of an incredibly successful symbiote that is nonetheless not optimally suited to independent existence...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,622
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pots can be great. Start a sempervivum collection.
    I know, I love them and succulents of all kinds. I have loads in London.

    I just want to see my ferns unfurling, the bright green of euphorbia wulfenii, the deliciously warm orange of euphorbia Fireglow against dark leaves, the geums poking though the earth, my roses bursting into bud and soon flowers, the scent from my evergreen jasmine, the scent of my pelargonium Attar of Roses filling the conservatory as the windows are opened (Son No 1 says it is glorious and you don’t get scent through a screen, I can tell you), the honey smell from euphorbia mellifera, the purple alliums set against Ballerina tulips, the fresh greenness of spring leaves, that sense of the earth rebounding and springing into life, the bees, the sheer sensuality of gardens: sight and sound and smell and yes the feel of leaves and petals and earth. It is so joyful and hopeful and healing. And I miss it.

    * head on table / begins to weep *
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kinabalu said:

    Exactly - an object lesson in how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
    Or, alternatively, one in the transience and meaninglessness of non-stories obsessed over in the 24-hour rolling news cycle.

    Provided that the number of tests continues to increase, virtually everyone will have forgotten that the original target existed by this time next week.
  • Floater said:

    Is your friend a lumberjack?

    No, he works on the salad cart at the Harvester
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332

    The Volk speaks as one, literally.

    Twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1256521522757410816?s=20

    Why do people keep quoting this guy? He continuously claims all sorts of "exclusives", but never rarely any evidence and most stories turn out to be horseshit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,002

    Mr. Owls, you could make similar statistical claims, for what they're worth, about France, Spain, or Italy.

    The trend is a good one. It's moving in the right direction. It's good news.

    Don't say that - BJO does not want it to happen, it upsets his political agenda
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    No, he works on the salad cart at the Harvester
    So lumberjack-adjacent?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217


    The public sector didn't deliver. If was just PHE labs, they barely increased testing or capacity. It was the decision to finally get the private sector involved that massively expanded this.

    And for all the criticism over spinning to get it over the line, not doubt massoive increase, unlike Scotland and Wales, who nobody seems to be criticising.

    Wales promised 5k tests a day, then just gave up after a week.
    Funny, I thought Scotland and Wales were being 'massoively' criticised on here.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217
    Floater said:

    Yet the SNP felt the need to base their case on ridiculously inflated oil prices - go figure.
    I think I'll wait for a smarter Unionist to turn up.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332

    Funny, I thought Scotland and Wales were being 'massoively' criticised on here.
    Ex-PB, I think he means.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,451
    Mr. Divvie, that looks distinctly disconcerting.

    Worth noting that that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with our political media. I've stopped watching the news habitually and much of the crisis coverage has been very poor (the u-turn accusations when the Government did exactly what it said it would over a lockdown, for example).

    It'd be interesting to know what impact such tactics have.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217

    Why do people keep quoting this guy? He continuously claims all sorts of "exclusives", but never rarely any evidence and most stories turn out to be horseshit.
    Aye, we definitely need more Guido.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332

    Funny, I thought Scotland and Wales were being 'massoively' criticised on here.
    I mean in the media? Have they challenged the Scottish and Welsh governments over their piss poor record on testing in the way they have the UK government?

  • The public sector didn't deliver. If was just PHE labs, they barely increased testing or capacity. It was the decision to finally get the private sector involved that massively expanded this.

    And for all the criticism over spinning to get it over the line, not doubt massoive increase, unlike Scotland and Wales, who nobody seems to be criticising.

    Wales promised 5k tests a day, then just gave up after a week.
    The private sector involvement barely gets a mention, it's as if the left don't know.

    Same thing with the German healthcare system, the MSM were all over the fact that they are doing better than us. Then when they realised how it is funded they suddenly kept quiet
  • isamisam Posts: 41,214

    My favourite size is xxl slim fit
    M&S made a skinny jeans boo boo last Christmas

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/09/marks-spencer-sales-dented-by-too-many-mince-pies-and-skinny-jeans
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217

    It doesn't seem to be impossible to conceive of an incredibly successful symbiote that is nonetheless not optimally suited to independent existence...
    Och, dinnae panic, I'm (almost) sure England would be fine.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661

    Are checked shirts OK?

    Asking for a friend
    In the country they are de rigueur.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304
    edited May 2020

    That would be pretty Byronic... :wink:
    Fruit of that MysticRose
    As of that rose the stem
    The root whence mystery ever flows
    The babe magnet of Camden.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332
    Speaking of Guido, has the PPE situation been brought under control? The Gov's new fancy PPE ebay seems to suggest it has.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,961

    Or, alternatively, one in the transience and meaninglessness of non-stories obsessed over in the 24-hour rolling news cycle.
    Provided that the number of tests continues to increase, virtually everyone will have forgotten that the original target existed by this time next week.
    Except that people will remember that it is yet another example of the Conservatives making up figures in order to snatch a quick headline, and then failing to live up to their boasts.

    The government campaign to deal with Covid is constantly being undermined by the untrustworthy Conservative politicians.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217
    edited May 2020

    I mean in the media? Have they challenged the Scottish and Welsh governments over their piss poor record on testing in the way they have the UK government?
    Plenty in the Scottish media if you'd bothered to check. Of course unlike here they had to work with the real figures.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332

    The private sector involvement barely gets a mention, it's as if the left don't know.

    Same thing with the German healthcare system, the MSM were all over the fact that they are doing better than us. Then when they realised how it is funded they suddenly kept quiet
    And of course in Germany, their gold standard test was produced by a private lab (which PHE wouldn't buy, insisting on taking another 3 weeks to develop our own copy)...and the testing regime in Germany is public / private partnership...again something PHE wouldn't entertain.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661
    Do we think that any kind of quarantine for arrivals is on the cards?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332
    isam said:
    I am sure they said the same to NOTW journalists back in the say....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Its over there is clearly no desire to reach a compromise on either side. Talks end next month it will be the hardest of Brexits after transition.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332
    TOPPING said:

    Do we think that any kind of quarantine for arrivals is on the cards?

    Better bloody be...it will be an absolute cluster fuck if they don't.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332
    .
    TOPPING said:

    Do we think that any kind of quarantine for arrivals is on the cards?

    Wasn't that particular kite flown a few days ago? Suspect it's likely there will be some form of control on the border.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661
    RobD said:

    .

    Wasn't that particular kite flown a few days ago? Suspect it's likely there will be some form of control on the border.
    I missed that. Control as in keeping people in some kind of accommodation?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332
    This check your own temperature thing, isnt it a bit late by the time you start to display one as you have been spreading for days by then...and not everybody does.

    Seems about as pointless as the nothing to declare bit at the airport.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    This check your own temperature thing, isnt it a bit late by the time you start to display one as you have been spreading for days by then...and not everybody does.

    Seems about as pointless as the nothing to declare bit at the airport.

    Itd does catch those trying to sneak in. But in any case if all are quarantined that issue doesn't arise.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    Speaking of nationalist myths, a persistent British nationalist/Unionist myth appears to simultaneously believe that Scotland benefited and still benefits hugely from being part of the Union, and yet among smallish, well educated European nations with developed & diverse industries, substantial natural resources and stable civic polities, is uniquely ill suited to independence. Even smarter Unionists seem unable to square this circle in their own heads, let alone to my satisfaction.
    I am sorry that you are not satisfied Divvy but I may just have to live with that.

    Scotland could survive as an independent country, of course it could. But would its people have a better life, would we cope with something like this virus as well, would our young have the same breadth of opportunities? I really don't see how an independent Scotland, particularly one using Sterling, would have been able to match the furlough scheme, the grants, the guaranteed loans etc. A Scotland with its own currency would have been flotsam on the current markets with highly unpredictable results.

    An independent Scotland today would be significantly poorer with less well funded public services, a serious trade deficit and limited prospects of improving our standard of living going forward. For some that is a price worth paying and the argument that we might eventually find a sense of common purpose and thrive is not to be dismissed out of hand but why on earth would we take that risk? Its bordering on irrational.

    The SNP need to focus on our economy, on our education system, on our infrastructure, on business development and create a country that is indeed viable, that would indeed thrive on its own. Instead their obsession with constitutional matters and the uncertaintly that creates means the situation gets worse and worse. They are a menace.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Off-topic, but in all this agonising about how to resume the footy, one rather obvious solution appears to have been missed: it's resumed only when safe to do so (with or without crowds), and the season completed (say Sept-Dec). It's then followed by a one-off Coronavirus Cup; format, which would include a possibly extensive round-Robin stage, dependent on time available, to take us up to May. Next season proper kicks off in August 2021. Sorted.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332
    TOPPING said:

    I missed that. Control as in keeping people in some kind of accommodation?
    Their own, I think.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/travellers-arriving-in-uk-to-face-quarantine-for-14-days-kndrsm65d
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,304
    Cyclefree said:

    I know, I love them and succulents of all kinds. I have loads in London.

    I just want to see my ferns unfurling, the bright green of euphorbia wulfenii, the deliciously warm orange of euphorbia Fireglow against dark leaves, the geums poking though the earth, my roses bursting into bud and soon flowers, the scent from my evergreen jasmine, the scent of my pelargonium Attar of Roses filling the conservatory as the windows are opened (Son No 1 says it is glorious and you don’t get scent through a screen, I can tell you), the honey smell from euphorbia mellifera, the purple alliums set against Ballerina tulips, the fresh greenness of spring leaves, that sense of the earth rebounding and springing into life, the bees, the sheer sensuality of gardens: sight and sound and smell and yes the feel of leaves and petals and earth. It is so joyful and hopeful and healing. And I miss it.

    * head on table / begins to weep *
    It’s a horribly frustrating situation for you Cyclefree and I’ve every sympathy. But I agree with those upthread. Ask if your landlord would allow you to build a garden. The worst that can happen is he’ll say no in which case you’re no worse off, but if he(?) says yes it would help.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    DavidL said:

    Without the lockdown etc we were looking at deaths of roughly 1% of the population, roughly 650K. We are heading towards something short of 50K. Anyone who doesn't regard that as a win is not looking at this objectively.
    And if we had locked down a week earlier instead of the nonsense about not going to the pub but the pubs running drinks promotions then the death figure would have been under 20k, the lockdown would have been several weeks shorter and we would be into the track and trace phase by now. 30k additional deaths due to a week of dither.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716
    OT is this stuff legit?

    The theory is that you can make ghetto covid19 tests crazy simple and cheap, just using a saliva instead of sticking a thing up your nose most of the way to your brain. Even if you get a lot of wrong results just isolating the people who tested positive (and you can follow up with a proper PCR test or whatever) will bring the R number way down and everyone can go back to the pub.

    https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1256535985476775936
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Och, dinnae panic, I'm (almost) sure England would be fine.
    Lol - touché!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217
    edited May 2020
    DavidL said:

    I am sorry that you are not satisfied Divvy but I may just have to live with that.

    Scotland could survive as an independent country, of course it could. But would its people have a better life, would we cope with something like this virus as well, would our young have the same breadth of opportunities? I really don't see how an independent Scotland, particularly one using Sterling, would have been able to match the furlough scheme, the grants, the guaranteed loans etc. A Scotland with its own currency would have been flotsam on the current markets with highly unpredictable results.

    An independent Scotland today would be significantly poorer with less well funded public services, a serious trade deficit and limited prospects of improving our standard of living going forward. For some that is a price worth paying and the argument that we might eventually find a sense of common purpose and thrive is not to be dismissed out of hand but why on earth would we take that risk? Its bordering on irrational.

    The SNP need to focus on our economy, on our education system, on our infrastructure, on business development and create a country that is indeed viable, that would indeed thrive on its own. Instead their obsession with constitutional matters and the uncertaintly that creates means the situation gets worse and worse. They are a menace.
    Currently I see one party in Scotland that goes on and on and on about Scottish indy and another referendum and it ain't the SNP. Check the skelf in your own ee.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,634

    Or, alternatively, one in the transience and meaninglessness of non-stories obsessed over in the 24-hour rolling news cycle.

    Provided that the number of tests continues to increase, virtually everyone will have forgotten that the original target existed by this time next week.
    That too. Whole thing amped up to ludicrous proportions.

    As for "targets" I did predict in my usual wise and weary way that this one would be no exception to the general rule - this being that if cooking the books is required to hit it, cooking the books is what will occur.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,007

    And if we had locked down a week earlier instead of the nonsense about not going to the pub but the pubs running drinks promotions then the death figure would have been under 20k, the lockdown would have been several weeks shorter and we would be into the track and trace phase by now. 30k additional deaths due to a week of dither.
    Hindsight alert klaxon...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332

    Currently I see one party in Scotland that goes on and and on and on about Scottish indy and and other referendum and it ain't the SNP. Check the skelf in your own ee.
    The SNP doesn't go on and on about independence?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,332

    OT is this stuff legit?

    The theory is that you can make ghetto covid19 tests crazy simple and cheap, just using a saliva instead of sticking a thing up your nose most of the way to your brain. Even if you get a lot of wrong results just isolating the people who tested positive (and you can follow up with a proper PCR test or whatever) will bring the R number way down and everyone can go back to the pub.

    /twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1256535985476775936

    There has bee recent academic work that has shown saliva tests could well be as accurate method of sample collection.

    The problem with the cheap and cheerful tests is not the false positives, it is the false negatives.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    All those considering naked gardening, beware. My other half, who is prone to malapropisms, is constantly confusing clematis with Chlamydia. Try not to make this mistake.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    TOPPING said:

    I missed that. Control as in keeping people in some kind of accommodation?
    Travelodge for Ryanair passengers.
    Premier Inn for BA Economy
    Doubletree for BA Business Class
    Windsor Castle for BA First Class

    A tent for Wizzair
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Don't say that - BJO does not want it to happen, it upsets his political agenda
    What a vile comment
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    edited May 2020
    RobD said:

    Their own, I think.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/travellers-arriving-in-uk-to-face-quarantine-for-14-days-kndrsm65d
    Joining the other 90% of the planet which either have banned foreigners from arrival absolutely to as a minimum making everyone self-quarantine for 14 days and fining quarantine breakers. Yes, I know "the scientists".....but are all the other countries wrong? For example, Singapore, absolutely no foreigners, residents only with permission if they work in medical fields and all Singaporean arrivals quarantined in government controlled hotels - which they have to pay for if they went abroad after the SG government issued its "no travel" advice.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850

    Off-topic, but in all this agonising about how to resume the footy, one rather obvious solution appears to have been missed: it's resumed only when safe to do so (with or without crowds), and the season completed (say Sept-Dec). It's then followed by a one-off Coronavirus Cup; format, which would include a possibly extensive round-Robin stage, dependent on time available, to take us up to May. Next season proper kicks off in August 2021. Sorted.

    I think contracts with broadcasters is driving the EPL motives . Stand to lose a fortune (not just with Sky etc but with worldwide rights holders) if seasons cannot be played this year or next. Football is not really to my taste especially the EPL but its a big earner for this country.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217
    edited May 2020
    RobD said:


    The SNP doesn't go on and on about independence?

    The nuttier Yoons are even complaining about it.

    'JENNY HJUL: SNP campaign leaflet with no mention of Scottish independence speaks volumes'

    https://tinyurl.com/yb8793vr
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,661
    RobD said:

    Their own, I think.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/travellers-arriving-in-uk-to-face-quarantine-for-14-days-kndrsm65d
    Thanks
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716

    There has bee recent academic work that has shown saliva tests could well be as accurate method of sample collection.

    The problem with the cheap and cheerful tests is not the false positives, it is the false negatives.
    I guess the false negatives are a problem if you're still trying to do voluntary-action-driven social distancing by individuals, but maybe in the next phase (next phase but one???) you can rely less on that and more on test+isolate and, if that's not enough, regulating businesses operating high-transmission locations in the same way that they're regulated for food hygiene and elf n safety.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650

    Hindsight alert klaxon...
    We had already locked down and were shouting at the TV every evening when Bozo didn't get on and announce it.

    By the time we locked down, around 100,000 people were being infected each day.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RobD said:

    The SNP doesn't go on and on about independence?
    Compared to the No Surrender To a Second Referendum Party? The SNP barely mention it in comparison.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    All those considering naked gardening, beware. My other half, who is prone to malapropisms, is constantly confusing clematis with Chlamydia. Try not to make this mistake.

    That enquiry at the garden centre about how best to get his clematis treated has become legend...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    And if we had locked down a week earlier instead of the nonsense about not going to the pub but the pubs running drinks promotions then the death figure would have been under 20k, the lockdown would have been several weeks shorter and we would be into the track and trace phase by now. 30k additional deaths due to a week of dither.
    We did this yesterday. I am reluctant to do it again. We cannot do track and trace until we had adequate testing capacity. That arrived this week. We cannot do track and trace without adequate isolation capacity. That arrived with the Nightingale hospitals. We cannot do track and trace without some form of app, at least in Cities. That is still awaited.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650

    All those considering naked gardening, beware. My other half, who is prone to malapropisms, is constantly confusing clematis with Chlamydia. Try not to make this mistake.

    Nettle stings are bad enough on my arms, never mind anywhere else!

    On that note, out I go to pull out yet more nettles...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,650
    At least they're following the guidance on face coverings.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I think 9 November 2020 is the day the world will wake up and find that the Covid 19 nightmare has passed. Mark it in your diary.

    2 days later would be more poetic
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    Currently I see one party in Scotland that goes on and on and on about Scottish indy and another referendum and it ain't the SNP. Check the skelf in your own ee.
    I actually agree that the Tories, and the also rans, need to go beyond no to a second referendum as a policy platform. But it is not true to say that the SNP do not claim that virtually every single thing that happens shows that we would be better off as an independent nation. It is their raison d'etre.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    They look great and aren't bad value.

    But they don't last. Build-quality is poor. My Tyrwhitt shirts and suits have never lasted longer than 2 years.

    TM Lewin? M&S? Gieves & Hawkes? Turnbull & Asser?

    They go the full mile, and some.
    Hawes & Curtis I find work
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032
    edited May 2020

    And if we had locked down a week earlier instead of the nonsense about not going to the pub but the pubs running drinks promotions then the death figure would have been under 20k, the lockdown would have been several weeks shorter and we would be into the track and trace phase by now. 30k additional deaths due to a week of dither.
    Are pubgoers more likely to get Covid-19? At risk of upsetting the stereotype police, were pubs really full of fat, BAME coffin-dodgers that have been dying disproportionately?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217
    Rigged polls, the universal language of Zoomerism.

    https://twitter.com/bee_happy_camp/status/1256509687199137792?s=20
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    What a vile comment
    Is it as vile as

    "New deaths reported today
    UK 739
    Spain 281
    Italy 269
    France 218

    Three cheers for Hancock"

    from yesterday?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716

    Are pubgoers more likely to get Covid-19? At risk of upsetting the stereotype police, were pubs really full of fat, BAME coffin-dodgers that have been dying disproportionately?
    I don't know if there's specific pub data but in Japan based on their cluster tracing they're very emphatic that the problem is crowded, badly-ventilated, noisy places with people talking loudly to each other.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032

    I am sure they said the same to NOTW journalists back in the say....
    What's the story here? I've clicked on a couple of the twitter feeds listed but cannot see anything apart from someone resigned from the FT.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,552

    What's the story here? I've clicked on a couple of the twitter feeds listed but cannot see anything apart from someone resigned from the FT.
    Mark Di Stefano of the FT joined the video chats of the Indy and the Evening Standard, the ones where furloughs were being announced.

    Kinda broke the FT rules on news gathering and possibly the law.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332

    I don't know if there's specific pub data but in Japan based on their cluster tracing they're very emphatic that the problem is crowded, badly-ventilated, noisy places with people talking loudly to each other.
    They've found particular clusters associated with bars?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    All those considering naked gardening, beware. My other half, who is prone to malapropisms, is constantly confusing clematis with Chlamydia. Try not to make this mistake.

    So how is this retirement malarkey?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,121

    What a vile comment
    Some people think that saying anything other than the fact that our wonderful government is superb is political.....


  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032

    I don't know if there's specific pub data but in Japan based on their cluster tracing they're very emphatic that the problem is crowded, badly-ventilated, noisy places with people talking loudly to each other.
    That makes sense. Virus in saliva in air. I'm not sure when I last saw a crowded pub though, which is probably why so many closed down. Three up the road from me are being redeveloped and a fourth is basically a steakhouse with lager on tap.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332
    DavidL said:

    So how is this retirement malarkey?
    Day two, I believe. :D
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099
    RobD said:

    Day two, I believe. :D
    And your point being?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Joining the other 90% of the planet which either have banned foreigners from arrival absolutely to as a minimum making everyone self-quarantine for 14 days and fining quarantine breakers. Yes, I know "the scientists".....but are all the other countries wrong? For example, Singapore, absolutely no foreigners, residents only with permission if they work in medical fields and all Singaporean arrivals quarantined in government controlled hotels - which they have to pay for if they went abroad after the SG government issued its "no travel" advice.
    It will make sense to do that when the rest of the world is higher risk than the UK is. That's not the case at the minute.

    As it stands which is higher risk - a doctor flying in from New Zealand ready and eager to work in the NHS, or a domestic retired person who is ignoring the lockdown rules and going to visit friends and family?

    Asthe UK looks to phase out lockdown it will make sense to introduce quarantine regulations then, but only from high risk areas not areas like NZ etc
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,217
    edited May 2020
    DavidL said:

    I actually agree that the Tories, and the also rans, need to go beyond no to a second referendum as a policy platform. But it is not true to say that the SNP do not claim that virtually every single thing that happens shows that we would be better off as an independent nation. It is their raison d'etre.
    And as I have said repeatedly to the the point of tediousness, until Unionism, whether it be SCon, SLab or (lol)SLD, puts together a coherent and attractive vision not based on SNPbad, the SNP are the only game in town. On that basis I'd actually say the dire, unimaginative 4th raters that pass for Unionist pols are more to blame than anyone for the state we're in.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032

    Mark Di Stefano of the FT joined the video chats of the Indy and the Evening Standard, the ones where furloughs were being announced.

    Kinda broke the FT rules on news gathering and possibly the law.
    Ah yes. That sounds naughty. I hope he did not get the idea from our pb discussion of security risks around remote Cabinet meetings.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mark Di Stefano of the FT joined the video chats of the Indy and the Evening Standard, the ones where furloughs were being announced.

    Kinda broke the FT rules on news gathering and possibly the law.
    He also then "broke" the news of the furloughs publicly from having been in the video chat claiming "sources" from the Indy had informed him rather than that he'd observed it himself after gatecrashing.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    That enquiry at the garden centre about how best to get his clematis treated has become legend...
    The trick is to grow clitoria ternatea - difficult to mangle into anything worse.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    DavidL said:

    So how is this retirement malarkey?
    I no longer have excuses for not getting things done. This is troubling.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,420
    Cyclefree said:

    I know, I love them and succulents of all kinds. I have loads in London.

    I just want to see my ferns unfurling, the bright green of euphorbia wulfenii, the deliciously warm orange of euphorbia Fireglow against dark leaves, the geums poking though the earth, my roses bursting into bud and soon flowers, the scent from my evergreen jasmine, the scent of my pelargonium Attar of Roses filling the conservatory as the windows are opened (Son No 1 says it is glorious and you don’t get scent through a screen, I can tell you), the honey smell from euphorbia mellifera, the purple alliums set against Ballerina tulips, the fresh greenness of spring leaves, that sense of the earth rebounding and springing into life, the bees, the sheer sensuality of gardens: sight and sound and smell and yes the feel of leaves and petals and earth. It is so joyful and hopeful and healing. And I miss it.

    * head on table / begins to weep *
    I'm guessing pictures of our gardens won't exactly help....?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Mark Di Stefano of the FT joined the video chats of the Indy and the Evening Standard, the ones where furloughs were being announced.

    Kinda broke the FT rules on news gathering and possibly the law.
    I must admit I don't understand why lots of journalists are defending him on Twitter so much. Surely this is a cut and dried case of stepping way over the line? Makes me worry about how much similar stuff goes on that lots of journos seem to think this is normal and 'anyone would have done it' in his position.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    I no longer have excuses for not getting things done. This is troubling.
    Surely writing penetrating thread headers for PB is all the excuse a man can need?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,400
    edited May 2020

    That makes sense. Virus in saliva in air. I'm not sure when I last saw a crowded pub though, which is probably why so many closed down. Three up the road from me are being redeveloped and a fourth is basically a steakhouse with lager on tap.
    And yet, in the Telegraph:

    "Ministers have asked the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) to look again at whether people need to stay so far apart, amid growing evidence that coronavirus does not transmit well in the air ."

    Personally, it would take a fair chunk of evidence to convince me that this doesn't travel well by air.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Quincel said:

    I must admit I don't understand why lots of journalists are defending him on Twitter so much. Surely this is a cut and dried case of stepping way over the line? Makes me worry about how much similar stuff goes on that lots of journos seem to think this is normal and 'anyone would have done it' in his position.
    plus ca change

    The journalists defending him are those who like his politics and were content to ferociously attack the News of the World, while ignoring the fact the Daily Mirror had been doing the same thing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032

    He also then "broke" the news of the furloughs publicly from having been in the video chat claiming "sources" from the Indy had informed him rather than that he'd observed it himself after gatecrashing.
    Silly. He should have phoned the journos in the meeting till he found one to confirm.

    Meanwhile ... following Sam Bowman's twitter link took me to this paper about keeping business afloat which proposes the same "student loans for business" idea I've suggested here from time to time.
    https://www.tenentrepreneurs.org/blog/coronavirusukeconomy
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,099

    And as I have said repeatedly to the the point of tediousness, until Unionism, whether it be SCon, SLab or (lol)SLD, puts together a coherent and attractive vision not based on SNPbad, the SNP are the only game in town. On that basis I'd actually say the dire, unimaginative 4th raters that pass for Unionist pols are more to blame than anyone for the state we're in.
    Those in government are always more responsible than anyone else. They make the decisions. But Scotland does need a viable choice. I find it frustrating.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,332

    Silly. He should have phoned the journos in the meeting till he found one to confirm.

    Meanwhile ... following Sam Bowman's twitter link took me to this paper about keeping business afloat which proposes the same "student loans for business" idea I've suggested here from time to time.
    https://www.tenentrepreneurs.org/blog/coronavirusukeconomy
    Silly? I think it's a bit more than silly.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,552

    I no longer have excuses for not getting things done. This is troubling.
    My father's suggestion for that during retirement.

    Get children/grandchildren or a cat or dog.

    You can always blame the above for not getting anything done.
This discussion has been closed.