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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The vibes are that the lockdown could be set to be eased

SystemSystem Posts: 11,016
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The vibes are that the lockdown could be set to be eased

It was inevitable that there was going to be a more positive mood emanating from Downing Street following the return of the prime minister, Boris Johnson. Most of the front pages reflect this although a move at this stage to relax the lockdown could be a very big gamble and cost thousands of lives.

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,521
    Morning.
    Damn birdsong.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,521
    (FPT)
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    The Ivermectin story is getting interesting too. Needs some proper prospective studies, but promising.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254756320433049602?s=09

    What news on the covid bad for kids email Doc?
    The notice from the Paediatric Intensive Care Society seems to be because a dozen or so children have developed a COVID19 induced inflammation of the coronary blood vessels.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/nhs-warns-of-rise-in-children-with-new-illness-that-may-be-linked-to-coronavirus

    It looks to be pretty rare, but pretty nasty.
    Along the same lines as the significant number of (many possibly undiagnosed) myopathies in adults ?
    It’s been suggested that children don’t seem to have significant serious symptoms as the ACE2 receptor is not widely expressed in their lungs (though it is present in the upper respiratory tract). What about in their vascular system ?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,521
    edited April 2020
    Very interesting paper from China on deep genetic analysis of viral strains isolated from samples taken from patients quite early in the outbreak.

    Patient-derived mutations impact pathogenicity of SARS-CoV-2
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20060160v2.full.pdf
    .... Current genomic survey data suggest that single nucleotide variants
    (SNVs) are abundant. However, no mutation has been directly linked with functional changes in viral pathogenicity. We report functional characterizations of 11 patient-derived viral isolates. We observed diverse mutations in these viral isolates, including 6 different mutations in the spike glycoprotein (S protein), and 2 of which are different SNVs that led to the same missense mutation. Importantly, these viral isolates show significant variation in cytopathic effects and viral load, up to 270-fold differences,when infecting Vero-E6 cells. Therefore, we provide direct evidence that the
    SARS-CoV-2 has acquired mutations capable of substantially changing its pathogenicity...


    They also provide evidence of viable virus from stool samples, and note a patient who remained infected for 45 days.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,521
    In other news, the universe appears to be bipolar....
    https://phys.org/news/2020-04-laws-nature-downright-weird-constant.html
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,885

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Nigelb said:

    Morning.
    Damn birdsong.

    Good morning everyone, although raining here. First time for a while, seriously, anyway. Although not, at least yet, as heavy as forecast.

    The garden, and the farmers, need it. Not looking forward to being completely confined to the house; have rather enjoyed a 'duty walk', as opposed to a trip to the gym.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good morning, everyone.

    Bit gloomy. Although some rain might be good for gardens.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Nigelb said:

    Morning.
    Damn birdsong.

    Good morning everyone, although raining here. First time for a while, seriously, anyway. Although not, at least yet, as heavy as forecast.

    The garden, and the farmers, need it. Not looking forward to being completely confined to the house; have rather enjoyed a 'duty walk', as opposed to a trip to the gym.
    Almost any exercise is more enjoyable than the gym.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    "This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."

    This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.

    Every measure - bar one.

    The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.

    The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,149
    Jared Polis on Colorado changing their Stay-at-home order to Safer-at-home:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/26/politics/jared-polis-colorado-reopen-cnntv/index.html
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103
    Foxy said:

    "This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."

    This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.

    Every measure - bar one.

    The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.

    The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
    I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."

    It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    Foxy said:

    "This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."

    This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.

    Every measure - bar one.

    The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.

    The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
    I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."

    It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
    5-10% DNA is usual. 50% is exceptional, and vast numbers phoning to cancel too.

    People with long term conditions are right to be wary. We may be past the peak, but several hundred are dying each day from it.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    philiph said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning.
    Damn birdsong.

    Good morning everyone, although raining here. First time for a while, seriously, anyway. Although not, at least yet, as heavy as forecast.

    The garden, and the farmers, need it. Not looking forward to being completely confined to the house; have rather enjoyed a 'duty walk', as opposed to a trip to the gym.
    Almost any exercise is more enjoyable than the gym.
    Not sure about that; quite enjoy the brief sociability that's possible. Generally different from my usual round. I normally went at the same time each day, so saw the same people!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    If an MP turns up ..... is invited ....... to talk about whatever, then surely it's unreasonable to expect him or her to answer, particularly in depth, on any other question. Presumably Ms A had briefed herself to talk about the DVA.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    "This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."

    This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.

    Every measure - bar one.

    The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.

    The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
    I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."

    It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
    5-10% DNA is usual. 50% is exceptional, and vast numbers phoning to cancel too.

    People with long term conditions are right to be wary. We may be past the peak, but several hundred are dying each day from it.
    Attitude differences are interesting. My 73 year old dad had a pacemaker fitted four weeks ago. It didn't occur to him to pass up the opportunity to get it done because he might catch COVID-19.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    philiph said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning.
    Damn birdsong.

    Good morning everyone, although raining here. First time for a while, seriously, anyway. Although not, at least yet, as heavy as forecast.

    The garden, and the farmers, need it. Not looking forward to being completely confined to the house; have rather enjoyed a 'duty walk', as opposed to a trip to the gym.
    Almost any exercise is more enjoyable than the gym.
    Not sure about that; quite enjoy the brief sociability that's possible. Generally different from my usual round. I normally went at the same time each day, so saw the same people!
    Just expressing my personal dislike of repetitive exercise in a confind environment shared with a bunch of moderately sweaty individuals. Even a smattering of well toned shapley feminine attendees fails to push the experience above drab, dull and tedious for me.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    If an MP turns up ..... is invited ....... to talk about whatever, then surely it's unreasonable to expect him or her to answer, particularly in depth, on any other question. Presumably Ms A had briefed herself to talk about the DVA.
    100% agreed.

    Especially when they're invited to talk about a new bill they've been working on and are now introducing to Parliament - to expect them to answer questions in depth about something someone else is working on and has not announced anything yet seems puerile.

    Its not as if Domestic Violence is a mild topic to be discussing, its a serious issue in its own right.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103
    edited April 2020
    Moth du Jour: Maiden's Blush, fresh in last night.



  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,260

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    She should have asked Burley to present the weather forecast
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    If an MP turns up ..... is invited ....... to talk about whatever, then surely it's unreasonable to expect him or her to answer, particularly in depth, on any other question. Presumably Ms A had briefed herself to talk about the DVA.
    100% agreed.

    Especially when they're invited to talk about a new bill they've been working on and are now introducing to Parliament - to expect them to answer questions in depth about something someone else is working on and has not announced anything yet seems puerile.

    Its not as if Domestic Violence is a mild topic to be discussing, its a serious issue in its own right.
    It makes you wonder why ministers or governments often like to give marquee 'journalists' a miss.
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    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,010

    Moth du Jour: Maiden's Blush, fresh in last night.



    I've been social distancing too long... I read that as Maiden's Bush
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103

    Moth du Jour: Maiden's Blush, fresh in last night.



    I've been social distancing too long... I read that as Maiden's Bush
    Now we know what made the maiden blush!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103
    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Oh, c'mon, it took huge restraint for Boris not to say

    "This is not the beginning of the end. But it is the end of the beginning..."
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,149
    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Yes, the other problem with the war metaphor is that he's going to find it incredibly hard to avoid the temptation to declare Mission Accomplished, I'm not sure he has the self-discipline.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710

    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Yes, the other problem with the war metaphor is that he's going to find it incredibly hard to avoid the temptation to declare Mission Accomplished, I'm not sure he has the self-discipline.
    Johnson isn't strong on self-discipline. Nor is he, unfortunate for personal as well as national reasons, a good role model for how to live with the virus. He nearly died.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Ah the last stand of the whingers - the politically correct language - that will cut through to Jo Public.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,314

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Yes, the other problem with the war metaphor is that he's going to find it incredibly hard to avoid the temptation to declare Mission Accomplished, I'm not sure he has the self-discipline.
    Johnson isn't strong on self-discipline. Nor is he, unfortunate for personal as well as national reasons, a good role model for how to live with the virus. He nearly died.
    Such a shame for you he survived. We feel your pain.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,314
    On topic, I'm not sure that's what I heard from Johnson yesterday.

    He sounded very cautious to me. The bigger risk is that because of his own traumatic experience (and bear in mind he is a fairly self-centred individual) is that he now goes too far the other way and is ultra-conservative.

    He'll have to meet many people again as PM once things are back to normal.

    I'd be worried in his shoes too.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592
    felix said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
    Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
    Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
    Hundreds? Evidence please?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Yes - we well remember how much his decision to ignore him would damage him in the polls...oh..wait.. it made not a jot of difference.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    I particularly enjoyed watching the self-satisfied Peston laboriously setting out his long and detailed question over 29 seconds at yesterday's briefing only for Hancock to respond with "No".
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Happy Ed Balls day.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,924
    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Yes - we well remember how much his decision to ignore him would damage him in the polls...oh..wait.. it made not a jot of difference.
    Johnson wisely decided that being interviewed by Neil would do him more harm than good.

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Yes, the other problem with the war metaphor is that he's going to find it incredibly hard to avoid the temptation to declare Mission Accomplished, I'm not sure he has the self-discipline.
    Johnson isn't strong on self-discipline. Nor is he, unfortunate for personal as well as national reasons, a good role model for how to live with the virus. He nearly died.
    Such a shame for you he survived. We feel your pain.
    I think you should retract that.

    Firstly you are implying something about me that is completely false. I shouldn't need to say this but for the avoidance of all doubt, I'm delighted Johnson survived. I wouldn't wish this horrible disease on my worst enemy. Johnson isn't my enemy.

    Secondly, your slur says far more about you, not in a good way, than it does about me or anything else.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Yes - we well remember how much his decision to ignore him would damage him in the polls...oh..wait.. it made not a jot of difference.
    Surely that's the point!
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,924

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Yep, running away detailed scrutiny has been a hallmark of his career. He has also managed to avoid appearing in front if the Commons Liaison Committee since becoming PM. He has always known his limits.

  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,484
    edited April 2020

    Moth du Jour: Maiden's Blush, fresh in last night.



    I've been social distancing too long... I read that as Maiden's Bush
    Now we know what made the maiden blush!
    As it happens, my nurse neighbour has accepted an offer to trim her bushes this summer whilst she is pulling the extra ICU shifts.

    No blushes there, except in the colours of the flowers in my not-garden :- ) .
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Yes - we well remember how much his decision to ignore him would damage him in the polls...oh..wait.. it made not a jot of difference.
    Johnson wisely decided that being interviewed by Neil would do him more harm than good.

    It will be interesting to see if he still hides in fridges and avoids Neil next time round.

    Politicians prefer communicating over Social Media now. No hard questions, gullible audience etc.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    FF43 said:

    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Yes, the other problem with the war metaphor is that he's going to find it incredibly hard to avoid the temptation to declare Mission Accomplished, I'm not sure he has the self-discipline.
    Johnson isn't strong on self-discipline. Nor is he, unfortunate for personal as well as national reasons, a good role model for how to live with the virus. He nearly died.
    Such a shame for you he survived. We feel your pain.
    I think you should retract that.

    Firstly you are implying something about me that is completely false. I shouldn't need to say this but for the avoidance of all doubt, I'm delighted Johnson survived. I wouldn't wish this horrible disease on my worst enemy. Johnson isn't my enemy.

    Secondly, your slur says far more about you, not in a good way, than it does about me or anything else.
    I'm pleased that you have avoided any doubt.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,484
    edited April 2020
    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,924
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.

    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Yes - we well remember how much his decision to ignore him would damage him in the polls...oh..wait.. it made not a jot of difference.

    Johnson wisely decided that being interviewed by Neil would
    do him more harm than good.



    It will be interesting to see if he still hides in fridges and avoids Neil next time round.

    Politicians prefer communicating over Social Media now. No hard questions, gullible audience etc.
    I know I’m a broken record on this, but I do think that much of the Johnson GE19 strategy was predicated on being up against Corbyn. It gave him a lit of leeway. I am not sure he’ll get the same amount against Starmer.

  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RE: virus and lockdown. I've always thought that the big problem that the big problem that "lockdown" policies have had is the lack of nuance. The message has been that every activity is equally dangerous - for catching the virus, for catching it in a harmful way, for spreading it to others etc. When the reality is almost certainly that there are degrees in all these things.

    Going for a walk in the Yorkshire Dales. Low risk. Going to a packed pub. High risk. Large scale public events. High risk etc etc. Temporary and brief exposure to potentially infected people. Probably low risk. Prolonged exposure. High risk. International travel. High risk.

    "Lockdown" was a policy with the aim of elimination - except almost no countries have implemented it with that being given as the stated aim. And arguably such an aim is futile when not universally pursued once it escaped China, unless intending to stay cut off from the world indefinitely.

    Arguably a large chunk of the economic activity that has been shutdown by the lockdown could have been sustained with some nuance. Maybe we just didn't know enough about the virus to risk it. But I don't know.

    Apologies for channelling my inner EiT.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,924
    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    They are generally used in pairs, though.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.

    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Yes - we well remember how much his decision to ignore him would damage him in the polls...oh..wait.. it made not a jot of difference.

    Johnson wisely decided that being interviewed by Neil would
    do him more harm than good.



    It will be interesting to see if he still hides in fridges and avoids Neil next time round.

    Politicians prefer communicating over Social Media now. No hard questions, gullible audience etc.
    I know I’m a broken record on this, but I do think that much of the Johnson GE19 strategy was predicated on being up against Corbyn. It gave him a lit of leeway. I am not sure he’ll get the same amount against Starmer.

    I strongly suspect that's correct, and I also noted that is his remarks yesterday he offered co-operation with other parties.
    While that's a good idea, it could be a way of trying to avoid forensic questioning by Starmer on, for example, the 'non-stocks' of PPE.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Helen Clark (former PM NZ) on R4 saying the travel ban worked for New Zealand. Also saying that next step might be travel "bubble" with Australia and some South Pacific nations which have excluded COVID.
  • Options
    We're not going to spend the day sniping at each other are we? If so I assume I am not the only person getting poor sleep at the moment...
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Observer, Corbyn was a colossal Conservative asset.

    If May hadn't run the worst campaign in living memory she could've secured a majority far greater than the current one.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2020
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
    Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.

    As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.

    Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.

    All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
    Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
    The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    They are generally used in pairs, though.

    Too clever by half!!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2020

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
    Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
    The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
    Indeed the journalists didnt order any PPE ffs. What a set of twats.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    They are generally used in pairs, though.

    And cleaning spray detergent is generally used with disposable paper. Doesn't make them the same item.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I do wish Johnson would lay off the war metaphors. They aren't helpful. We're not going to defeat this virus - unless someone somewhere invents a workable vaccine and that's not a national battle thing.

    Living with the virus above all requires discipline. People's behaviours need to be conditioned to minimise infection. It's all about that.

    Yes, the other problem with the war metaphor is that he's going to find it incredibly hard to avoid the temptation to declare Mission Accomplished, I'm not sure he has the self-discipline.
    Johnson isn't strong on self-discipline. Nor is he, unfortunate for personal as well as national reasons, a good role model for how to live with the virus. He nearly died.
    Such a shame for you he survived. We feel your pain.
    I think you should retract that.

    Firstly you are implying something about me that is completely false. I shouldn't need to say this but for the avoidance of all doubt, I'm delighted Johnson survived. I wouldn't wish this horrible disease on my worst enemy. Johnson isn't my enemy.

    Secondly, your slur says far more about you, not in a good way, than it does about me or anything else.
    I'm pleased that you have avoided any doubt.
    I think being stuck away in your remote, godforsaken tawdry expat corner of Spain has affected you more than you perhaps realise.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,103

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
    Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.

    As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.

    Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.

    All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
    The real issue around this wasn't so much the element of Boris slinking away from scrutiny by Andrew Neil - it was Corbyn signing up to his interview without ensuring Boris was also contractually locked in.

    I wonder if in due course it will be found to be part of the plot to sink Corbyn. The alternative is that the Labour campaign was run by numpties.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
    Did you watch Panorama?

    Did you see how many gowns we stockpiled?

    Did you see how despite warnings we failed to stockpile bodybags, gowns,visors, not buying a single one till we were at the back of the queue

    Plenty of gloves though, hurrah perhaps we should throw a plenty of gloves party and serve the food using the flimsy plastic aprons, like they were intentioned for.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,341

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.

    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Yes - we well remember how much his decision to ignore him would damage him in the polls...oh..wait.. it made not a jot of difference.

    Johnson wisely decided that being interviewed by Neil would
    do him more harm than good.



    It will be interesting to see if he still hides in fridges and avoids Neil next time round.

    Politicians prefer communicating over Social Media now. No hard questions, gullible audience etc.
    I know I’m a broken record on this, but I do think that much of the Johnson GE19 strategy was predicated on being up against Corbyn. It gave him a lit of leeway. I am not sure he’ll get the same amount against Starmer.

    From some angles, 2019 was a bog standard Crosby campaign (even though fronted by his protoge Isaac Levido) as May used for 2017. Presidential, and ducking scrutiny.

    Otherwise Boris in 2019 might best be seen as a reaction to May's lost majority in 2017. To a large extent, Boris ran on Corbyn's 2017 platform and against May's (and by extension against Cameron/Osborne). For instance, Corbyn had attacked May for cutting 20,000 police officers. Boris pledged to recruit 20,000, the same number. Likewise more doctors, nurses and hospitals, and even state broadband.

  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    "This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."

    This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.

    Every measure - bar one.

    The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.

    The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
    I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."

    It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
    5-10% DNA is usual. 50% is exceptional, and vast numbers phoning to cancel too.

    People with long term conditions are right to be wary. We may be past the peak, but several hundred are dying each day from it.
    In England, we're probably down to about the equivalent of one fully laden 747 per day crashing with no survivors.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,242

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
    Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.

    As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.

    Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.

    All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
    Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.

    It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,178

    Helen Clark (former PM NZ) on R4 saying the travel ban worked for New Zealand. Also saying that next step might be travel "bubble" with Australia and some South Pacific nations which have excluded COVID.

    Ultimately, which side of the Coronavirus travel bubble do we want to be on? The inside, with trusted travel to other Corona-free countries, or the outside, with no end in sight to the daily toll of death?

    If we have the patience to maintain restrictions that keep R well below 1, then we will benefit for the rest of the year.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    The rewriting of the election underway on this rainy day.

    Should imagine Ed Davey is in a tizzy about whether to hire a bus or a fridge as his election guru.

    Some posters could get a job at Sky news such is their low opinion of voters.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
    I hear a lot about double-gloving but never know why this happens. Is it because the quality is so poor that an insurance glove is required? It seems to be a long-standing practice that pre-dates corona though.
  • Options
    LBC - Nick Ferrari makes a £100 bet with Matt Hancock that he will miss the 100k tests a day by 1st May target. Very grudgingly accepted with the loser giving the money to an NHS chariry...
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,484

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    They are generally used in pairs, though.

    That would be discriminatory against Captain Hook ...
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    "flimsy plastic aprons" are the approved design of item to wear in many cases.

    It's a little unfair to criticise the government for ordering pre-approved products.
  • Options
    TGOHF666 said:

    The rewriting of the election underway on this rainy day.

    Should imagine Ed Davey is in a tizzy about whether to hire a bus or a fridge as his election guru.

    Some posters could get a job at Sky news such is their low opinion of voters.

    Is this next Thursday's General Election? I do think that PM George Osborne is facing a significant challenge from LOTO Yvette Cooper.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
    Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.

    As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.

    Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.

    All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
    Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.

    It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
    Starmer of course has been professionally trained in questioning. Eventually Boris will have to get up at PMQ's and won't be able to avoid him.

    He can run, but eventually anyway, he won't be able to hide.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    They are generally used in pairs, though.

    That would be discriminatory against Captain Hook ...
    And amputee Drs and Nurses
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Gadfly said:

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
    I hear a lot about double-gloving but never know why this happens. Is it because the quality is so poor that an insurance glove is required? It seems to be a long-standing practice that pre-dates corona though.
    I've not heard much about that but my educated guess would be because gloves are not that great as people think they are and that one of the highest risk points is when you remove the glove. I'm guessing that people who do that can essentially remove the contaminated gloves with an uncontaminated glove underneath, then remove the uncontaminated glove.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,354
    Gadfly said:

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
    I hear a lot about double-gloving but never know why this happens. Is it because the quality is so poor that an insurance glove is required? It seems to be a long-standing practice that pre-dates corona though.
    Disposable gloves rip very easily.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    "flimsy plastic aprons" are the approved design of item to wear in many cases.

    It's a little unfair to criticise the government for ordering pre-approved products.
    They are fine for serving food not so much intubation.

    The point is we didnt order a single gown in 2019 for our stockpile or indeed in January despite Government advisors warning we were critically low.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,963

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
    Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.

    As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.

    Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.

    All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
    Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.

    It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
    Starmer of course has been professionally trained in questioning. Eventually Boris will have to get up at PMQ's and won't be able to avoid him.

    He can run, but eventually anyway, he won't be able to hide.
    Well he could split Question Time into 2 weekly parts so Starmer only got 3 questions at a time to reduce the chance of Starmer scoring a direct hit.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,598
    Germany is reporting that their infection rate (R0) is back above 1.

    Take note, lockdown-sceptics.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
    Did you watch Panorama?

    Did you see how many gowns we stockpiled?

    Did you see how despite warnings we failed to stockpile bodybags, gowns,visors, not buying a single one till we were at the back of the queue

    Plenty of gloves though, hurrah perhaps we should throw a plenty of gloves party and serve the food using the flimsy plastic aprons, like they were intentioned for.
    Did they mention to Vygon order?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
    Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.

    As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.

    Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.

    All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
    Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.

    It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
    He faced Jeremy Corbyn who was his rival to be Prime Minister face to face. Something Tony Blair always ran away from.

    Are you suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn was so weak that someone like your caricature of Boris was willing to face Corbyn while Blair was never willing to face any of his opposition?
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908



    The real issue around this wasn't so much the element of Boris slinking away from scrutiny by Andrew Neil - it was Corbyn signing up to his interview without ensuring Boris was also contractually locked in.

    I wonder if in due course it will be found to be part of the plot to sink Corbyn. The alternative is that the Labour campaign was run by numpties.

    As if Boris would have honoured a contract!
    BBC and Corbyn got played. But it probably made little to no difference anyway.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    "This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."

    This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.

    Every measure - bar one.

    The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.

    The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
    I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."

    It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
    5-10% DNA is usual. 50% is exceptional, and vast numbers phoning to cancel too.

    People with long term conditions are right to be wary. We may be past the peak, but several hundred are dying each day from it.
    In England, we're probably down to about the equivalent of one fully laden 747 per day crashing with no survivors.
    That's a depressing way to put it!
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,078

    Germany is reporting that their infection rate (R0) is back above 1.

    Take note, lockdown-sceptics.

    But we can’t stay in lockdown indefinitely, so what’s your point?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    If an MP turns up ..... is invited ....... to talk about whatever, then surely it's unreasonable to expect him or her to answer, particularly in depth, on any other question. Presumably Ms A had briefed herself to talk about the DVA.
    Indeed. At a certain level of seniority it might be reasonable, if it was Rasb one could expect it as hes been essentially acting PM, but that's just plain silly.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,036
    edited April 2020

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Neil has a very strong belief that he knows what he's talking about. On the occasions when it's been shown that he doesn't, the graceless boorishness he displays is quite something.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Gadfly said:

    MattW said:

    Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.

    Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.

    54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves

    A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons

    Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent

    Gowns not so much

    Visors nah
    Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
    I hear a lot about double-gloving but never know why this happens. Is it because the quality is so poor that an insurance glove is required? It seems to be a long-standing practice that pre-dates corona though.
    In case there is an accidental tear.

    Regent then introduced a two layer glove with a gel in between that coloured if it was exposed to air
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2020

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Neil has a very strong belief that he knows what he's talking about. On the occasions when it's been shown that he doesn't, the graceless boorishness he displays is quite something.
    Nobody's perfect. Better an occasion that it is shown that he doesn't (and when a politician takes on Neil at his own game it can be quite impressive) and that raises the quality of the discussion - than the alternative of constantly interrupting the guest and refusing to let them finish a sentence.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,036
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
    Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
    The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
    Gotta fill that Corbyn shaped hole with something.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.

    The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
    Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
    Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
    The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
    As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,242

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".

    WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?

    This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.

    Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
    The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.

    There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
    Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
    Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
    Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
    Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.

    As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.

    Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.

    All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
    Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.

    It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
    He faced Jeremy Corbyn who was his rival to be Prime Minister face to face. Something Tony Blair always ran away from.

    Are you suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn was so weak that someone like your caricature of Boris was willing to face Corbyn while Blair was never willing to face any of his opposition?
    Corbyn was obviously a really rubbish politician.

    But I also wanted to make a point about politicians in general, not Johnson in particular. The more we praise politicians (on "our" side!) for this kind of cunning, the more we undermine our democracy.

    I certainly also condemn Cameron and Blair for the times they avoided scrutiny, and would be disappointed in people praising such tactics just because they won.
This discussion has been closed.