All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
It's not that that's surprising or troubling. It's partisan idiots cheering on this behaviour that is the real problem. That's how democracies collapse.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
Gotta fill that Corbyn shaped hole with something.
That's what I have scottish nationalism for! Did you see what was in the National...
Gah. BBC Breakfast berating the Minister about the existential national scandal that each surgical glove is an "item of PPE", and not a *pair* of gloves.
Somebody explain to the divots that they don't come in pairs ... please.
54% of the 1 billion items of PPE are single gloves
A further 19% are flimsy plastic aprons
Then we have paper towels, bins, detergent
Gowns not so much
Visors nah
Given gloves are the most needed item that makes perfect sense. If there weren't any gloves available would you find that better?
Did you watch Panorama?
Did you see how many gowns we stockpiled?
Did you see how despite warnings we failed to stockpile bodybags, gowns,visors, not buying a single one till we were at the back of the queue
Plenty of gloves though, hurrah perhaps we should throw a plenty of gloves party and serve the food using the flimsy plastic aprons, like they were intentioned for.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.
Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.
There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
Neil has a very strong belief that he knows what he's talking about. On the occasions when it's been shown that he doesn't, the graceless boorishness he displays is quite something.
Hes also quite vain in how he receives praise. Still, probably more hits than misses.
"This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."
This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.
Every measure - bar one.
The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.
The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."
It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
5-10% DNA is usual. 50% is exceptional, and vast numbers phoning to cancel too.
People with long term conditions are right to be wary. We may be past the peak, but several hundred are dying each day from it.
In England, we're probably down to about the equivalent of one fully laden 747 per day crashing with no survivors.
That's a depressing way to put it!
Interesting though.
I bet (hypothetically) if you put the whole population on 747s every day, nationwide, for a compulsory flight and everyone knew one would crash you'd be *even more* conservative on a lockdown. No-one would go anywhere. Not a single tanking of an aircraft would be deemed acceptable.
The terror factor is far higher for a plane crash and the loss of personal control instills people with a deep fear.
It's a good example of our irrational assessment of risk and how it can vary by scenario.
Unsurprising figure but I'm surprised as many as 7% went for Gove too - as someone who likes Gove. Shows the unreliability of polling respondents to answer the question actually asked.
Gove and Patel simply haven't done that much that's obvious compared to the others during Boris's absence. Their departments are not as key frontline as the others.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.
Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.
There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.
As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.
Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.
All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.
It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
Starmer of course has been professionally trained in questioning. Eventually Boris will have to get up at PMQ's and won't be able to avoid him.
He can run, but eventually anyway, he won't be able to hide.
Well he could split Question Time into 2 weekly parts so Starmer only got 3 questions at a time to reduce the chance of Starmer scoring a direct hit.
It will be very interesting when he does face Starmer at PMQs.
As I am sure you guys know Starmer was DPP during the Worboys parole case, and Carrie Symonds was one of his victims.
"This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."
This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.
Every measure - bar one.
The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.
The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."
It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
5-10% DNA is usual. 50% is exceptional, and vast numbers phoning to cancel too.
People with long term conditions are right to be wary. We may be past the peak, but several hundred are dying each day from it.
In England, we're probably down to about the equivalent of one fully laden 747 per day crashing with no survivors.
That's a depressing way to put it!
Difficult to think of a non depressing way to put it.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.
Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.
There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.
As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.
Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.
All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.
It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
He faced Jeremy Corbyn who was his rival to be Prime Minister face to face. Something Tony Blair always ran away from.
Are you suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn was so weak that someone like your caricature of Boris was willing to face Corbyn while Blair was never willing to face any of his opposition?
Corbyn was obviously a really rubbish politician.
But I also wanted to make a point about politicians in general, not Johnson in particular. The more we praise politicians (on "our" side!) for this kind of cunning, the more we undermine our democracy.
I certainly also condemn Cameron and Blair for the times they avoided scrutiny, and would be disappointed in people praising such tactics just because they won.
I disagree completely.
If you wish to hold the other side to account then focus more on raising the strength of your own side - and other journalists should focus more on raising their own ability - than incessantly whining about one single journalist being missed.
Politicians should be smart and seek to win the election. Democracies don't die because one journalist is swerved, not when there's countless other live on air TV debates and interviews.
Many have said that with a leader like Starmer the Opposition would be different now. Quite right too. Stop whining and get better.
"This is one of those decisions where getting it wrong could cost lives and Johnson’s handling of this will very much define his premiership."
This virus is out there in the UK population. Every measure of lifting the lockdown will cost lives.
Every measure - bar one.
The lockdown is also costing lives. The biggest measure to combat that loss of life was taken out of lockdown yesterday, with the message that the NHS is now back open for non-Covid business. It may not be schools opening or the ability to go shopping again. But in terms of the overall number of deaths as a consequence of Covid, getting the NHS through the first wave and out the other side to again be saving lives in the wider, non-Covid healthcare needs of the country - that's a huge win for the Govt.
The hard bit is getting people to turn up. DNA's 50% of my clinic yesterday.
I reckon many people still thought they were helping the Covid fight by staying away. Some out out of fear, for sure but some out of doing their bit. "It's only a heart attack, I don't want to be a nuisance...."
It will be interesting to see if DNA numbers do now start to fall back. I don't know what the "normal" DNA rate is.
5-10% DNA is usual. 50% is exceptional, and vast numbers phoning to cancel too.
People with long term conditions are right to be wary. We may be past the peak, but several hundred are dying each day from it.
In England, we're probably down to about the equivalent of one fully laden 747 per day crashing with no survivors.
That's a depressing way to put it!
Difficult to think of a non depressing way to put it.
Personally I find it hard to visualise a number. Creating an image (plane full) makes it more "real"
RE: virus and lockdown. I've always thought that the big problem that the big problem that "lockdown" policies have had is the lack of nuance. The message has been that every activity is equally dangerous - for catching the virus, for catching it in a harmful way, for spreading it to others etc. When the reality is almost certainly that there are degrees in all these things.
Going for a walk in the Yorkshire Dales. Low risk. Going to a packed pub. High risk. Large scale public events. High risk etc etc. Temporary and brief exposure to potentially infected people. Probably low risk. Prolonged exposure. High risk. International travel. High risk.
"Lockdown" was a policy with the aim of elimination - except almost no countries have implemented it with that being given as the stated aim. And arguably such an aim is futile when not universally pursued once it escaped China, unless intending to stay cut off from the world indefinitely.
Arguably a large chunk of the economic activity that has been shutdown by the lockdown could have been sustained with some nuance. Maybe we just didn't know enough about the virus to risk it. But I don't know.
Apologies for channelling my inner EiT.
You're completely right.
There's a suite of restrictions, and it's vanishingly improbable that each and every one of them has exactly the same level of contribution to reducing Rt.
Which means there's some low hanging fruit. Unfortunately, we're blindfolded at midnight on an overcast night. Or, at least, we were.
This may come over as horribly ruthless, but on a purely knowledge-based front, it would be ideal if the nations that are ahead of this in the impact of the virus and are already slackening some restrictions would each reduce one different restriction from each other. We would then have useful data on which is the low hanging fruit and which is the "Oh, shit, we just killed another 20,000 and need another long full lockdown"
I have my suspicions as to which are the least effective and most effective measures, but they'll be biased by my own desires and preferences.
(Rule one of the scientific method: try our damndest to disprove our preferred hypothesis, because no-one can fool us better than we can ourselves by simply wanting something to be true).
There is so much negative stuff going on that sometimes a bit of praise is due.
For example Sainsburys quickly identified my wife as in the highly vulnerable group and have allocated us a delivery slot each week, for which we are very grateful.
Must admit though that I don't like online grocery shopping. Last week my wife asked me to order 7 loose bananas, but I somehow managed to order 7 bags of 8, meaning we ended up with 56 of the bloody things.
I ended up giving them away to family and neighbours, to add insult to injury this week I did manage to get the order right but they didn't send any!
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
Unsurprising figure but I'm surprised as many as 7% went for Gove too - as someone who likes Gove. Shows the unreliability of polling respondents to answer the question actually asked.
Gove and Patel simply haven't done that much that's obvious compared to the others during Boris's absence. Their departments are not as key frontline as the others.
Nation likes person who gives them free stuff shock.
RE: virus and lockdown. I've always thought that the big problem that the big problem that "lockdown" policies have had is the lack of nuance. The message has been that every activity is equally dangerous - for catching the virus, for catching it in a harmful way, for spreading it to others etc. When the reality is almost certainly that there are degrees in all these things.
Going for a walk in the Yorkshire Dales. Low risk. Going to a packed pub. High risk. Large scale public events. High risk etc etc. Temporary and brief exposure to potentially infected people. Probably low risk. Prolonged exposure. High risk. International travel. High risk.
"Lockdown" was a policy with the aim of elimination - except almost no countries have implemented it with that being given as the stated aim. And arguably such an aim is futile when not universally pursued once it escaped China, unless intending to stay cut off from the world indefinitely.
Arguably a large chunk of the economic activity that has been shutdown by the lockdown could have been sustained with some nuance. Maybe we just didn't know enough about the virus to risk it. But I don't know.
Apologies for channelling my inner EiT.
You're completely right.
There's a suite of restrictions, and it's vanishingly improbable that each and every one of them has exactly the same level of contribution to reducing Rt.
Which means there's some low hanging fruit. Unfortunately, we're blindfolded at midnight on an overcast night. Or, at least, we were.
This may come over as horribly ruthless, but on a purely knowledge-based front, it would be ideal if the nations that are ahead of this in the impact of the virus and are already slackening some restrictions would each reduce one different restriction from each other. We would then have useful data on which is the low hanging fruit and which is the "Oh, shit, we just killed another 20,000 and need another long full lockdown"
I have my suspicions as to which are the least effective and most effective measures, but they'll be biased by my own desires and preferences.
(Rule one of the scientific method: try our damndest to disprove our preferred hypothesis, because no-one can fool us better than we can ourselves by simply wanting something to be true).
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Even in on the back of a big Tory majority and a public generally sympatico to the government, Govey still trundling along near the bottom. At least there are some constants in an uncertain world.
Germany is reporting that their infection rate (R0) is back above 1.
Take note, lockdown-sceptics.
What exactly did they release or lower restrictions-wise?
It's essential to find out which restrictions have the greatest effect on Rt and which the least.
It's pretty much a dead cert that social activities - involving talking to people face-to-face and spending time with other people in a confined space - are going to be near the top of the list.
- Germany has maintained social distancing rules, recommending masks in shops and on public transport, but have opened shops "under a certain size"
- Denmark has reopened schools and nurseries for children up to the age of 11
- Construction and manufacturing work is back under way in Spain
- Thousands of smaller shops in Austria reopened on Tuesday, and the country will allow outdoor sport such as tennis, golf and athletics from 1 May
- Some regions in Italy have reopened bookshops and children's clothing stores
That can provide useful data. If Germany's restriction-easing has caused Rt to jump too far, we should see corroboration in Austria. It could be that smaller shops are worse for infectivity than larger shops (as there's less room and the space is more enclosed - but that's just guessing). The Austrian data could be made a bit fuzzy by the outside sports/activities while maintaining social distancing - I suspect those will be minimum risk, but I'm aware I want to believe that, so my opinion there is suspect.
Denmark and Spain will provide very useful data on different areas (I suspect that primary schools may be minimal risk, but that's just a suspicion. I hope to God it's true, for the sake of the Danish kids, as well as providing evidence that we may be able to send our youngest kids back to school).
There is so much negative stuff going on that sometimes a bit of praise is due.
For example Sainsburys quickly identified my wife as in the highly vulnerable group and have allocated us a delivery slot each week, for which we are very grateful.
Must admit though that I don't like online grocery shopping. Last week my wife asked me to order 7 loose bananas, but I somehow managed to order 7 bags of 8, meaning we ended up with 56 of the bloody things.
I ended up giving them away to family and neighbours, to add insult to injury this week I did manage to get the order right but they didn't send any!
Sainsburys have been fantastic for us too.
Got my first non Sainsburys delivery in 6 weeks today too from Iceland (not the country)
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
I think next week is more likely to see movement announced. I think announcing any loosening before the May Bank Holiday long weekend would be quite risky.
We went into lockdown a week after France and Spain. I don't see the justification for a shorter lockdown when UK growth rate of deaths and cases is still well above other European countries.
- Germany has maintained social distancing rules, recommending masks in shops and on public transport, but have opened shops "under a certain size"
- Denmark has reopened schools and nurseries for children up to the age of 11
- Construction and manufacturing work is back under way in Spain
- Thousands of smaller shops in Austria reopened on Tuesday, and the country will allow outdoor sport such as tennis, golf and athletics from 1 May
- Some regions in Italy have reopened bookshops and children's clothing stores
That can provide useful data. If Germany's restriction-easing has caused Rt to jump too far, we should see corroboration in Austria. It could be that smaller shops are worse for infectivity than larger shops (as there's less room and the space is more enclosed - but that's just guessing). The Austrian data could be made a bit fuzzy by the outside sports/activities while maintaining social distancing - I suspect those will be minimum risk, but I'm aware I want to believe that, so my opinion there is suspect.
Denmark and Spain will provide very useful data on different areas (I suspect that primary schools may be minimal risk, but that's just a suspicion. I hope to God it's true, for the sake of the Danish kids, as well as providing evidence that we may be able to send our youngest kids back to school).
Given Germany has only been open a week - is it feasible that the "R" would have been observed to move already ?
HMG's problem is not lack of talent but lack of experience. See the NS article from yesterday, or similar, earlier discussions. Boris purged the big beasts and surrounded himself with inexperienced lightweights.
There is so much negative stuff going on that sometimes a bit of praise is due.
For example Sainsburys quickly identified my wife as in the highly vulnerable group and have allocated us a delivery slot each week, for which we are very grateful.
Must admit though that I don't like online grocery shopping. Last week my wife asked me to order 7 loose bananas, but I somehow managed to order 7 bags of 8, meaning we ended up with 56 of the bloody things.
I ended up giving them away to family and neighbours, to add insult to injury this week I did manage to get the order right but they didn't send any!
My wife has just ordered 16 kg of flour because she couldn't get a smaller pack!
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
Which means we'd make decisions before seeing the outcome of easing restrictions on the Continent. Squandering our second-mover advantage yet again.
- Germany has maintained social distancing rules, recommending masks in shops and on public transport, but have opened shops "under a certain size"
- Denmark has reopened schools and nurseries for children up to the age of 11
- Construction and manufacturing work is back under way in Spain
- Thousands of smaller shops in Austria reopened on Tuesday, and the country will allow outdoor sport such as tennis, golf and athletics from 1 May
- Some regions in Italy have reopened bookshops and children's clothing stores
That can provide useful data. If Germany's restriction-easing has caused Rt to jump too far, we should see corroboration in Austria. It could be that smaller shops are worse for infectivity than larger shops (as there's less room and the space is more enclosed - but that's just guessing). The Austrian data could be made a bit fuzzy by the outside sports/activities while maintaining social distancing - I suspect those will be minimum risk, but I'm aware I want to believe that, so my opinion there is suspect.
Denmark and Spain will provide very useful data on different areas (I suspect that primary schools may be minimal risk, but that's just a suspicion. I hope to God it's true, for the sake of the Danish kids, as well as providing evidence that we may be able to send our youngest kids back to school).
Given Germany has only been open a week - is it feasible that the "R" would have been observed to move already ?
If it is a genuine change, it seems more likely to be the result of people thinking it's all over and treating the rules in a more relaxed way.
In which case the same thing could happen here even if the rules weren't relaxed ...
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
I think the frustration that many on here feel is that there are real, serious questions to ask the government and the journalists seem to come up with simplistic variations on the story du jour.
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
I think next week is more likely to see movement announced. I think announcing any loosening before the May Bank Holiday long weekend would be quite risky.
On the other hand, it might be the perfect time. The one thing I'd like to do is just see my parents, and spend time with them.
- Germany has maintained social distancing rules, recommending masks in shops and on public transport, but have opened shops "under a certain size"
- Denmark has reopened schools and nurseries for children up to the age of 11
- Construction and manufacturing work is back under way in Spain
- Thousands of smaller shops in Austria reopened on Tuesday, and the country will allow outdoor sport such as tennis, golf and athletics from 1 May
- Some regions in Italy have reopened bookshops and children's clothing stores
That can provide useful data. If Germany's restriction-easing has caused Rt to jump too far, we should see corroboration in Austria. It could be that smaller shops are worse for infectivity than larger shops (as there's less room and the space is more enclosed - but that's just guessing). The Austrian data could be made a bit fuzzy by the outside sports/activities while maintaining social distancing - I suspect those will be minimum risk, but I'm aware I want to believe that, so my opinion there is suspect.
Denmark and Spain will provide very useful data on different areas (I suspect that primary schools may be minimal risk, but that's just a suspicion. I hope to God it's true, for the sake of the Danish kids, as well as providing evidence that we may be able to send our youngest kids back to school).
Given Germany has only been open a week - is it feasible that the "R" would have been observed to move already ?
I wondered about that, but then they do have a good level of testing, which would help them detect a change earlier than somewhere like the UK.
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
Which means we'd make decisions before seeing the outcome of easing restrictions on the Continent. Squandering our second-mover advantage yet again.
Indeed.
I expect the message this Thursday/Friday will and should be to stay at home this Bank Holiday Weekend, just like they were clear on that the Wednesday/Thursday before the Easter long weekend.
Any confused messages leading to crowds gathering on the bank holiday weekend would not be helpful. Next week we will be at a similar point to many of our continental neighbours and past the long weekend (and we should be loosened somewhat before the next one at the end of next month).
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.
Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.
There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.
As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.
Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.
All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.
It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
He faced Jeremy Corbyn who was his rival to be Prime Minister face to face. Something Tony Blair always ran away from.
Are you suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn was so weak that someone like your caricature of Boris was willing to face Corbyn while Blair was never willing to face any of his opposition?
Corbyn was obviously a really rubbish politician.
But I also wanted to make a point about politicians in general, not Johnson in particular. The more we praise politicians (on "our" side!) for this kind of cunning, the more we undermine our democracy.
I certainly also condemn Cameron and Blair for the times they avoided scrutiny, and would be disappointed in people praising such tactics just because they won.
I disagree completely.
If you wish to hold the other side to account then focus more on raising the strength of your own side - and other journalists should focus more on raising their own ability - than incessantly whining about one single journalist being missed.
Politicians should be smart and seek to win the election. Democracies don't die because one journalist is swerved, not when there's countless other live on air TV debates and interviews.
Many have said that with a leader like Starmer the Opposition would be different now. Quite right too. Stop whining and get better.
Who said anything about democracy dying? But democracy in the UK is far from perfect and there is room for improvement. Encouraging informed and honest debate is a good idea. Personally I find the standard of public discourse in Britain pretty bad, and politicians like Johnson who get praised for lying through their teeth (so long as they win it's ok) make it worse.
Too many people complain when an opposing player dives but praises their own striker for being smart enough to trick the ref into awarding one.
I also don't know what "side" you think I'm on, or why you think I am whining or need to get better. I am not a politician.
There is so much negative stuff going on that sometimes a bit of praise is due.
For example Sainsburys quickly identified my wife as in the highly vulnerable group and have allocated us a delivery slot each week, for which we are very grateful.
Must admit though that I don't like online grocery shopping. Last week my wife asked me to order 7 loose bananas, but I somehow managed to order 7 bags of 8, meaning we ended up with 56 of the bloody things.
I ended up giving them away to family and neighbours, to add insult to injury this week I did manage to get the order right but they didn't send any!
Sainsburys have been fantastic for us too.
Got my first non Sainsburys delivery in 6 weeks today too from Iceland (not the country)
Impossible to get a delivery ftom Sainsbury. Tesco.vv difficukt but got one by chance. My sister has been trying to get Waitrose to acknowledge my mother as a vunerable ill person @91yrs .. absolutely hopeless and non caring attitude afaiui.
There is so much negative stuff going on that sometimes a bit of praise is due.
For example Sainsburys quickly identified my wife as in the highly vulnerable group and have allocated us a delivery slot each week, for which we are very grateful.
Must admit though that I don't like online grocery shopping. Last week my wife asked me to order 7 loose bananas, but I somehow managed to order 7 bags of 8, meaning we ended up with 56 of the bloody things.
I ended up giving them away to family and neighbours, to add insult to injury this week I did manage to get the order right but they didn't send any!
Sainsburys have been fantastic for us too.
Got my first non Sainsburys delivery in 6 weeks today too from Iceland (not the country)
My local baker will deliver with a £6 minimum order, which I think is amazing, and our local butcher also deliver but with a £30 minimum order. Personally I will never forget those that have helped us.
There is so much negative stuff going on that sometimes a bit of praise is due.
For example Sainsburys quickly identified my wife as in the highly vulnerable group and have allocated us a delivery slot each week, for which we are very grateful.
Must admit though that I don't like online grocery shopping. Last week my wife asked me to order 7 loose bananas, but I somehow managed to order 7 bags of 8, meaning we ended up with 56 of the bloody things.
I ended up giving them away to family and neighbours, to add insult to injury this week I did manage to get the order right but they didn't send any!
Sainsburys have been fantastic for us too.
Got my first non Sainsburys delivery in 6 weeks today too from Iceland (not the country)
Can't say it enough (and I have said it a few times... ) - Sainsbury's have been great; got in touch with my 90-yr old mother and offered her a delivery slot.
"Social distancing could be “abandoned” by the end of this year if decision-makers stopped waiting for a vaccine, an expert claimed.
Professor Hugh Pennington, emeritus professor of bacteriology at Aberdeen University, said he was “reasonably optimistic” that the coronavirus outbreak could be “eradicated” in Britain by Christmas by focusing efforts on a huge increase in testing and tracing."
- Germany has maintained social distancing rules, recommending masks in shops and on public transport, but have opened shops "under a certain size"
- Denmark has reopened schools and nurseries for children up to the age of 11
- Construction and manufacturing work is back under way in Spain
- Thousands of smaller shops in Austria reopened on Tuesday, and the country will allow outdoor sport such as tennis, golf and athletics from 1 May
- Some regions in Italy have reopened bookshops and children's clothing stores
That can provide useful data. If Germany's restriction-easing has caused Rt to jump too far, we should see corroboration in Austria. It could be that smaller shops are worse for infectivity than larger shops (as there's less room and the space is more enclosed - but that's just guessing). The Austrian data could be made a bit fuzzy by the outside sports/activities while maintaining social distancing - I suspect those will be minimum risk, but I'm aware I want to believe that, so my opinion there is suspect.
Denmark and Spain will provide very useful data on different areas (I suspect that primary schools may be minimal risk, but that's just a suspicion. I hope to God it's true, for the sake of the Danish kids, as well as providing evidence that we may be able to send our youngest kids back to school).
Given Germany has only been open a week - is it feasible that the "R" would have been observed to move already ?
It's possible - an increase in infections could see an increase in symptoms within 5 days (the median date to show symptoms is 5 days, so some will show them sooner).
It's still a very short time period, though, and I'd be suspicious of the data unless it continues on that trajectory. And, as said above, it's also possible that some people are reacting to the relaxation of restrictions by assuming it's all over and going overboard.
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
I think next week is more likely to see movement announced. I think announcing any loosening before the May Bank Holiday long weekend would be quite risky.
On the other hand, it might be the perfect time. The one thing I'd like to do is just see my parents, and spend time with them.
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
I think next week is more likely to see movement announced. I think announcing any loosening before the May Bank Holiday long weekend would be quite risky.
On the other hand, it might be the perfect time. The one thing I'd like to do is just see my parents, and spend time with them.
And that's precisely the problem.
In isolation, id say that's low risk, but not no risk.
But ultimately, that is the one thing people will want to do, and which will do immediately. To see family. You can live and cope without restaurants or cinemas or whatever for the foreseeable, but if this thing has taught us that life is short and precious, then that's the first thing people are going to do.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
I think the frustration that many on here feel is that there are real, serious questions to ask the government and the journalists seem to come up with simplistic variations on the story du jour.
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
I think people want broad brush, primary colour questions and answer atm. I don't think the national psyche is up to too much nuance.
Everyone (certainly on here) might like a knockout question but knockout blows are only delivered after your opponent has been opened up by a series of jabs.
People on here are criticising the jabs saying well it didn't knock them out.
( @kle4 might need your help here if you remember you are PB's analogy assessment chief)
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
I think the frustration that many on here feel is that there are real, serious questions to ask the government and the journalists seem to come up with simplistic variations on the story du jour.
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
I think people want broad brush, primary colour questions and answer atm. I don't think the national psyche is up to too much nuance.
Everyone (certainly on here) might like a knockout question but knockout blows are only delivered after your opponent has been opened up by a series of jabs.
People on here are criticising the jabs saying well it didn't knock them out.
( @kle4 might need your help here if you remember you are PB's analogy assessment chief)
Sure, but all the questions are basically the same.
If journalists could coordinate a bit, or were faster on their feet in developing in an argument then it would be useful
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
I think the frustration that many on here feel is that there are real, serious questions to ask the government and the journalists seem to come up with simplistic variations on the story du jour.
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
I think people want broad brush, primary colour questions and answer atm. I don't think the national psyche is up to too much nuance.
Everyone (certainly on here) might like a knockout question but knockout blows are only delivered after your opponent has been opened up by a series of jabs.
People on here are criticising the jabs saying well it didn't knock them out.
( @kle4 might need your help here if you remember you are PB's analogy assessment chief)
Far too coherent an analogy for my tastes. It's even internally consistent.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.
Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.
There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.
As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.
Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.
All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.
It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
He faced Jeremy Corbyn who was his rival to be Prime Minister face to face. Something Tony Blair always ran away from.
Are you suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn was so weak that someone like your caricature of Boris was willing to face Corbyn while Blair was never willing to face any of his opposition?
Corbyn was obviously a really rubbish politician.
But I also wanted to make a point about politicians in general, not Johnson in particular. The more we praise politicians (on "our" side!) for this kind of cunning, the more we undermine our democracy.
I certainly also condemn Cameron and Blair for the times they avoided scrutiny, and would be disappointed in people praising such tactics just because they won.
I disagree completely.
If you wish to hold the other side to account then focus more on raising the strength of your own side - and other journalists should focus more on raising their own ability - than incessantly whining about one single journalist being missed.
Politicians should be smart and seek to win the election. Democracies don't die because one journalist is swerved, not when there's countless other live on air TV debates and interviews.
Many have said that with a leader like Starmer the Opposition would be different now. Quite right too. Stop whining and get better.
Who said anything about democracy dying? But democracy in the UK is far from perfect and there is room for improvement. Encouraging informed and honest debate is a good idea. Personally I find the standard of public discourse in Britain pretty bad, and politicians like Johnson who get praised for lying through their teeth (so long as they win it's ok) make it worse.
Too many people complain when an opposing player dives but praises their own striker for being smart enough to trick the ref into awarding one.
I also don't know what "side" you think I'm on, or why you think I am whining or need to get better. I am not a politician.
Who? You referred to undermining our democracy and Mango referred to democracies collapsing. Because a solitary journalist was swerved. Hyperbole much?
Informed debate is a great idea. We have a lot of that structurally in this country which is why democracy in the UK is pretty close to as realistically perfect as any nation will ever have in the real world, nothing is ever perfect. The standard of public discourse in Britain is pretty good and having a live televised head-to-head every week normally where the leader of the Opposition can ask a series of questions to the PM on any topic they choose is something a great many democracies lack.
Diving is cheating. Missing Andrew Neil is not cheating, that's a facile comparison.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
I think the frustration that many on here feel is that there are real, serious questions to ask the government and the journalists seem to come up with simplistic variations on the story du jour.
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
I think people want broad brush, primary colour questions and answer atm. I don't think the national psyche is up to too much nuance.
Everyone (certainly on here) might like a knockout question but knockout blows are only delivered after your opponent has been opened up by a series of jabs.
People on here are criticising the jabs saying well it didn't knock them out.
( @kle4 might need your help here if you remember you are PB's analogy assessment chief)
Far too coherent an analogy for my tastes. It's even internally consistent.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.
Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.
There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.
As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.
Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.
All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.
It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
He faced Jeremy Corbyn who was his rival to be Prime Minister face to face. Something Tony Blair always ran away from.
Are you suggesting that Jeremy Corbyn was so weak that someone like your caricature of Boris was willing to face Corbyn while Blair was never willing to face any of his opposition?
Corbyn was obviously a really rubbish politician.
But I also wanted to make a point about politicians in general, not Johnson in particular. The more we praise politicians (on "our" side!) for this kind of cunning, the more we undermine our democracy.
I certainly also condemn Cameron and Blair for the times they avoided scrutiny, and would be disappointed in people praising such tactics just because they won.
“was”? When did Corbyn stop being a really rubbish politician?
Austria opening hotels on the 29th May with no heed whatsoever to a common EU position must be causing alarm in Italy, Spain and France who have indicated they will stay closed this year
It cannot be denied, even by the most ardent supporter of the EU, that the EU has been found wanting and exposed to every likelihood that individual nations will continue to take decisions in their own self interest as they work their way through this crisis and beyond
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
I think the frustration that many on here feel is that there are real, serious questions to ask the government and the journalists seem to come up with simplistic variations on the story du jour.
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
I think people want broad brush, primary colour questions and answer atm. I don't think the national psyche is up to too much nuance.
Everyone (certainly on here) might like a knockout question but knockout blows are only delivered after your opponent has been opened up by a series of jabs.
People on here are criticising the jabs saying well it didn't knock them out.
( @kle4 might need your help here if you remember you are PB's analogy assessment chief)
Sure, but all the questions are basically the same.
If journalists could coordinate a bit, or were faster on their feet in developing in an argument then it would be useful
This. Plus, in the age of the internet, hypertext your stories more. If the poor dear public can't be disturbed with too much detail, they can read the top level story. Why not link through to detail, though?
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
Kay Burley is another victim of the corona virus - it has found her weakness and exploited it.
The effect it has had on the regard of journalists is one of its more devastating features. Relentless, working 24/7, it has scythed through the reputations of broadcasters.
Any idea that she was ever anything other than biassed, rude and ignorant has never crossed my mind. No-one watches Sky News.
Except the hundreds on PB each day complaining about it!
The displacement activity of docile PB-ers' daily rants against journalists is one of the more unedifying phenomena of the Coronavirus.
As unedifying as us also ranting about politicians daily? Get a grip, people moan on here it happens.
Perfectly ok to moan at anyone you want. Politicians are the ones implementing the policies by which we live. Journalists are the ones trying to hold those politicians to account. People on here, and I get it, they are scared and want to be told what to do, seem not to like the journalists rocking the boat.
I think the frustration that many on here feel is that there are real, serious questions to ask the government and the journalists seem to come up with simplistic variations on the story du jour.
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
I think people want broad brush, primary colour questions and answer atm. I don't think the national psyche is up to too much nuance.
Everyone (certainly on here) might like a knockout question but knockout blows are only delivered after your opponent has been opened up by a series of jabs.
People on here are criticising the jabs saying well it didn't knock them out.
( @kle4 might need your help here if you remember you are PB's analogy assessment chief)
Far too coherent an analogy for my tastes. It's even internally consistent.
Slight worry about the painting/boxing mashup surely?
Austria opening hotels on the 29th May with no heed whatsoever to a common EU position must be causing alarm in Italy, Spain and France who have indicated they will stay closed this year
Looks like it's Vienna and Salzburg for a summer holiday!!
(which might actually be a huge real problem for the summer).
It’s so quaint that Montgomerie and Neil act as if filling the Cabinet full of placemen wasn’t a deliberate act by Boris.
Most of them are just stupid.
Patel and Williamson both have form for national security breaches, FFS.
We have had useless Cabinets before - Brown and May the “pick” of the recent crop - but the Boris administration is the worst of my memory (which starts around 97).
The fact Austria and Germany and Italy for example are starting to ease their lockdowns gives the government an advantage as it can see how they cope first.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
I think we will see movement announced by Thursday/Friday at the latest.
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
I think next week is more likely to see movement announced. I think announcing any loosening before the May Bank Holiday long weekend would be quite risky.
On the other hand, it might be the perfect time. The one thing I'd like to do is just see my parents, and spend time with them.
And that's precisely the problem.
In isolation, id say that's low risk, but not no risk.
But ultimately, that is the one thing people will want to do, and which will do immediately. To see family. You can live and cope without restaurants or cinemas or whatever for the foreseeable, but if this thing has taught us that life is short and precious, then that's the first thing people are going to do.
I'd love to see my grandparents, to take my children to see their great-grandparents again - but that is something that we should not do at all. Wanting to do so and it being a good idea are not the same thing.
Austria opening hotels on the 29th May with no heed whatsoever to a common EU position must be causing alarm in Italy, Spain and France who have indicated they will stay closed this year
It cannot be denied, even by the most ardent supporter of the EU, that the EU has been found wanting and exposed to every likelihood that individual nations will continue to take decisions in their own self interest as they work their way through this crisis and beyond
Give it a rest.
Everything’s about “EU failure” to you, it’s quite dull.
Austria opening hotels on the 29th May with no heed whatsoever to a common EU position must be causing alarm in Italy, Spain and France who have indicated they will stay closed this year
It cannot be denied, even by the most ardent supporter of the EU, that the EU has been found wanting and exposed to every likelihood that individual nations will continue to take decisions in their own self interest as they work their way through this crisis and beyond
One can be pro-EU while criticising the people running the institution, as one can be a a Unionist without being a Tory. A fair criticism of the EU is the difficulty of changing the people who run it, but again you can be a reformist Europhile as much as you can want to reform the UK.
I look forward to the 3000 word rebuttal of the Telegraph lead story. Or not.
May 7 makes sense and matches what I was just saying. Why announce anything premature this week right before the Bank Holiday long weekend when you are already scheduled to announce a review next week?
Boris now that he is back should be working on things this week, but announcing them next week.
Kay Burley is so rude and ignorant. Victoria Atkins MP on to discuss the Domestic Violance Abuse Bill, Kay Burley demands to know what the Government is going to do about the Airline industry. Atkins says that the Business Secretary was looking into that but she was here to discuss the Domestic Violence Abuse Bill - Burley says "you represent the Government so need to answer my questions".
WTF? You think every Government MP has a hive mind and knows what the Business Secretary is working on or will decide?
This is popularly believed to stem from the 1990s and the understanding that Paxman's interrogative style was the best form of inquisitive journalism.
Personally, I preferred something more measured and cerebral like David Frost.
The only decent inquisitive journalist we have on our screens is the more measured and cerebral Andrew Neil. He knows what he's talking about, lets his guest answer the question then immediately comes back with the facts he knows about.
There's a reason politicians fear Andrew Neil more than Kay Burley etc - everyone being Paxman is old hat while a journalist who knows what he's talking about is as rare as hen's teeth.
Certainly Boris was afraid of him!
Indeed. Shows how intelligent Boris is - and that he can be risk averse when it matters.
Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I find praising politicians for the apparently electorally successful strategy of avoiding scrutiny a bit worrying.
Praising politicians for electoral success is part and parcel of politics.
As it happens with 24/7 news media there is a lot of electoral scrutiny. Boris faced head to head debates with Jeremy Corbyn and as many or more interviews with other journalists as PMs in the past had faced but just not Neil.
Boris was sage enough to measure up the people involved and identify that he'd rather face Corbyn face to face and other journalists than he would like to face Andrew Neil. That showed the weakness of Corbyn and our other journalists more than it is something to condemn in Boris.
All successful leaders including David Cameron and Tony Blair also sought to avoid the forms of scrutiny they thought would be riskiest to themselves. There's nothing new in that. All future election winners will do the same too.
Refusing to appear before select committees, suspending parliament itself, hiding in a fridge. His consistent failure to answer questions - if someone managed to ask him a question during the election campaign he almost always completely avoided it by saying "what the British people want to hear is (something that has zero relevance to the question asked)". I think he is worse than most other politicians in this.
It's not very logical to criticise the weakness of the journalists who got to interview Johnson, if he will only agree to be interviewed by weak journalists...
Starmer of course has been professionally trained in questioning. Eventually Boris will have to get up at PMQ's and won't be able to avoid him.
He can run, but eventually anyway, he won't be able to hide.
Why should Boris want to hide. The opposition policies are an eady target.
Comments
I bet (hypothetically) if you put the whole population on 747s every day, nationwide, for a compulsory flight and everyone knew one would crash you'd be *even more* conservative on a lockdown. No-one would go anywhere. Not a single tanking of an aircraft would be deemed acceptable.
The terror factor is far higher for a plane crash and the loss of personal control instills people with a deep fear.
It's a good example of our irrational assessment of risk and how it can vary by scenario.
Gove and Patel simply haven't done that much that's obvious compared to the others during Boris's absence. Their departments are not as key frontline as the others.
As I am sure you guys know Starmer was DPP during the Worboys parole case, and Carrie Symonds was one of his victims.
If you wish to hold the other side to account then focus more on raising the strength of your own side - and other journalists should focus more on raising their own ability - than incessantly whining about one single journalist being missed.
Politicians should be smart and seek to win the election. Democracies don't die because one journalist is swerved, not when there's countless other live on air TV debates and interviews.
Many have said that with a leader like Starmer the Opposition would be different now. Quite right too. Stop whining and get better.
There's a suite of restrictions, and it's vanishingly improbable that each and every one of them has exactly the same level of contribution to reducing Rt.
Which means there's some low hanging fruit. Unfortunately, we're blindfolded at midnight on an overcast night.
Or, at least, we were.
This may come over as horribly ruthless, but on a purely knowledge-based front, it would be ideal if the nations that are ahead of this in the impact of the virus and are already slackening some restrictions would each reduce one different restriction from each other. We would then have useful data on which is the low hanging fruit and which is the "Oh, shit, we just killed another 20,000 and need another long full lockdown"
I have my suspicions as to which are the least effective and most effective measures, but they'll be biased by my own desires and preferences.
(Rule one of the scientific method: try our damndest to disprove our preferred hypothesis, because no-one can fool us better than we can ourselves by simply wanting something to be true).
For example Sainsburys quickly identified my wife as in the highly vulnerable group and have allocated us a delivery slot each week, for which we are very grateful.
Must admit though that I don't like online grocery shopping. Last week my wife asked me to order 7 loose bananas, but I somehow managed to order 7 bags of 8, meaning we ended up with 56 of the bloody things.
I ended up giving them away to family and neighbours, to add insult to injury this week I did manage to get the order right but they didn't send any!
It's essential to find out which restrictions have the greatest effect on Rt and which the least.
As yet as Boris made clear there is no sign of the lockdown being lifted imminently and as the government has indicated certainly not until the number of cases and deaths have fallen significantly and the level of testing and PPE equipment is up
Will be seriously annoyed/baffled if we don't.
Masks, gloves, ease the lockdown more slowly in certain places, restrictions on numbers in shops etc.
CON: 50% (-2)
LAB: 33% (+2)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
GRN: 4% (+1)
via @RedfieldWilton, 26 Apr
Chgs. w/ 17 Apr
The hard part will be to maintain that popularity when he is clawing it back.
- Germany has maintained social distancing rules, recommending masks in shops and on public transport, but have opened shops "under a certain size"
- Denmark has reopened schools and nurseries for children up to the age of 11
- Construction and manufacturing work is back under way in Spain
- Thousands of smaller shops in Austria reopened on Tuesday, and the country will allow outdoor sport such as tennis, golf and athletics from 1 May
- Some regions in Italy have reopened bookshops and children's clothing stores
That can provide useful data. If Germany's restriction-easing has caused Rt to jump too far, we should see corroboration in Austria. It could be that smaller shops are worse for infectivity than larger shops (as there's less room and the space is more enclosed - but that's just guessing). The Austrian data could be made a bit fuzzy by the outside sports/activities while maintaining social distancing - I suspect those will be minimum risk, but I'm aware I want to believe that, so my opinion there is suspect.
Denmark and Spain will provide very useful data on different areas (I suspect that primary schools may be minimal risk, but that's just a suspicion. I hope to God it's true, for the sake of the Danish kids, as well as providing evidence that we may be able to send our youngest kids back to school).
Got my first non Sainsburys delivery in 6 weeks today too from Iceland (not the country)
https://youtu.be/hkNl3pq1twE
In which case the same thing could happen here even if the rules weren't relaxed ...
Appreciate that the set up is not conducive to challenging questions, but I wish they were more thoughtful rather than looking for soundbites
I expect the message this Thursday/Friday will and should be to stay at home this Bank Holiday Weekend, just like they were clear on that the Wednesday/Thursday before the Easter long weekend.
Any confused messages leading to crowds gathering on the bank holiday weekend would not be helpful. Next week we will be at a similar point to many of our continental neighbours and past the long weekend (and we should be loosened somewhat before the next one at the end of next month).
Too many people complain when an opposing player dives but praises their own striker for being smart enough to trick the ref into awarding one.
I also don't know what "side" you think I'm on, or why you think I am whining or need to get better. I am not a politician.
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/1292860/coronavirus-professor-hugh-pennington-details-how-uk-could-end-social-distancing-this-year/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=The Courier - Coronavirus 2020-04-28&utm_term=Courier Newsletter
"Social distancing could be “abandoned” by the end of this year if decision-makers stopped waiting for a vaccine, an expert claimed.
Professor Hugh Pennington, emeritus professor of bacteriology at Aberdeen University, said he was “reasonably optimistic” that the coronavirus outbreak could be “eradicated” in Britain by Christmas by focusing efforts on a huge increase in testing and tracing."
It's still a very short time period, though, and I'd be suspicious of the data unless it continues on that trajectory.
And, as said above, it's also possible that some people are reacting to the relaxation of restrictions by assuming it's all over and going overboard.
Until you have experienced a proper American diner, you haven't see portions really out of control.
But ultimately, that is the one thing people will want to do, and which will do immediately. To see family. You can live and cope without restaurants or cinemas or whatever for the foreseeable, but if this thing has taught us that life is short and precious, then that's the first thing people are going to do.
Everyone (certainly on here) might like a knockout question but knockout blows are only delivered after your opponent has been opened up by a series of jabs.
People on here are criticising the jabs saying well it didn't knock them out.
( @kle4 might need your help here if you remember you are PB's analogy assessment chief)
https://ihsmarkit.com/research-analysis/article-who-is-likely-to-go-without-food-in-the-looming-supply.html
If journalists could coordinate a bit, or were faster on their feet in developing in an argument then it would be useful
Informed debate is a great idea. We have a lot of that structurally in this country which is why democracy in the UK is pretty close to as realistically perfect as any nation will ever have in the real world, nothing is ever perfect. The standard of public discourse in Britain is pretty good and having a live televised head-to-head every week normally where the leader of the Opposition can ask a series of questions to the PM on any topic they choose is something a great many democracies lack.
Diving is cheating. Missing Andrew Neil is not cheating, that's a facile comparison.
position must be causing alarm in Italy, Spain and France who have indicated they will stay closed this year
It cannot be denied, even by the most ardent supporter of the EU, that the EU has been found wanting and exposed to every likelihood that individual nations will continue to take decisions in their own self interest as they work their way through this crisis and beyond
(which might actually be a huge real problem for the summer).
The underlying intention was good.
Most of them are just stupid.
Patel and Williamson both have form for national security breaches, FFS.
We have had useless Cabinets before - Brown and May the “pick” of the recent crop - but the Boris administration is the worst of my memory (which starts around 97).
Edit: Rishi does show a lot of promise.
Everything’s about “EU failure” to you, it’s quite dull.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1255051481356648454?s=20
I look forward to the 3000 word rebuttal of the Telegraph lead story. Or not.
*I hate both those terms and don't believe in either of them.
Boris now that he is back should be working on things this week, but announcing them next week.
Doing those two terms on Google Trends UK I get this:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=GB&q=coronavirus,unemployment
(Seeing if embedding will work)
trends.embed.renderExploreWidget("TIMESERIES", {"comparisonItem":[{"keyword":"coronavirus","geo":"GB","time":"today 12-m"},{"keyword":"unemployment","geo":"GB","time":"today 12-m"}],"category":0,"property":""}, {"exploreQuery":"geo=GB&q=coronavirus,unemployment&date=today 12-m,today 12-m","guestPath":"https://trends.google.com:443/trends/embed/"});
EDIT: Didn't work embedding the script, so adding the screenshot: