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Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de0 -
And yet, we don't seem to be seeing anything like the situations there was in Italy with army trucks taking away corpses etc.Nigel_Foremain said:
Odd how we still seem to be deluding ourselves that "our" NHS is in a much better position than the hopeless old Italians. The data says not!Andy_JS said:
Either this is due to Italian cases being hyperlocalised (Lombardy beyonf breaking point but the south being almost unctouched?) or the Italian data is a muc hbigger understatement of the real situation than our data.1 -
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise0 -
Although pissing in a bottle bank sounds even tougher. I mean,the holes are usually quite high up.Nigel_Foremain said:
Could be a new post-pandemic sport. Higher points for hitting one that is in full on lycraCharles said:
I’d be impressed if you could throw a bottle bank at a passing cyclistMarqueeMark said:Bottlebanks - do we think we should still be using them?
Or should I save them to throw at passing cyclists?0 -
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de2 -
On this occasion, they blew it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise0 -
12776, with ca. 8300 on the Monday.ABZ said:
Where are you seeing that? I'm pretty sure the number was much higher than that...bigjohnowls said:Easter Sunday less than 2,000 tests WTF
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Strange times.
I just tried watching the telly. Richard Osman will I suspect give the opec leaders sleepless nights - oiliness doesn't come close.
Dyson will get it right.0 -
The virus won't propagate well in areas where retired couples live together in low population density with small shops about.MarqueeMark said:
Some comfort to see Devon has the lowest deaths after being the first (Italian school ski-trip caused) hot-spot. I think folks here hunkered down harder and faster because of that - the results would seem to support it. We are running at around 1/15th of the rate in the Black Country.Foxy said:bigjohnowls said:
Right very positive stuff about NHS deaths in Leicester thenFoxy said:As far as Leicester goes, it looks as if our peak (hospital) deaths was 6 April.
I think that Social Care is a week or two behind though, and will suffer over the next week or so.
Looking at the chart, we are a little over half the national rate. I think that you must be in "Joined Up Derbyshire STP" at a little over the national rate.
The biggest hotspot at present seems to be Newcastle and around.
We must also have one of the highest average ages in the country - a further incentive for Devon residents to keep the hell out of Dodge.
Big families living cheek by jowl, heading into big supermarkets is what it needs to thrive.0 -
And if there is no defence against those warheads, what more useful could you be doing?ydoethur said:
That would be silly.Malmesbury said:
That's the kind of thinking that cancels the tea break, just because the Russians have launched 2500 warhead nuclear first strike.MarqueeMark said:All the days are the same for me in the lockdown; so can anyone explain why the Bank Holiday should continue to have its ususal salience, given that there has been no slacking off over the Easter weekend as staff went away for a break. Why SHOULD the numbers be different over a "Bank Holiday" that never was?
After all, you can’t have your tea break after the warheads have hit. You need to get it in first.0 -
I confess I'm still hugely cautious over these figures. Confirmed vases still increasing by nearly 5% per day which suggests the virus is still going strong - is anyone applying a ratio for known cases to unknown cases to get a sense of how many actual cases there are?AlastairMeeks said:
The government will almost certainly have better figures. Deaths aren’t included in the public figures until relatives have been notified. But the hospitals will presumably have privately reported to the government the actual numbers well before then.
I'm of the view as cases fall and capacity becomes available the urgent non-Covid patients need to have some priority with the rescheduling of cancelled procedures vital and if we have some spare capactity why not keep it running to clear the backlog and help those who have had to suffer because NHS resources have been required elsewhere.0 -
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
A disgusting attempt at a PR stunt that diverted attention away from more serious efforts. The government might have better used valuable time in discussions with our very large pharma biotech and diagnostic sector to work out ways of ramping up testing. Instead they chose to give publicity to Brexit supporting showboaters such as Dyson and Bamford of JCB, pretending they can magic up ventilators (of which they have zero experience) rather than speaking to proper ventilator manufacturers and getting them to contract their products under licence to serious medical device manufacturers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
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ExactlyNigel_Foremain said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
A disgusting attempt at a PR stunt that diverted attention away from more serious efforts. The government might have better used valuable time in discussions with our very large pharma biotech and diagnostic sector to work out ways of ramping up testing. Instead they chose to give publicity to Brexit supporting showboaters such as Dyson and Bamford of JCB, pretending they can magic up ventilators (of which they have zero experience) rather than speaking to proper ventilator manufacturers and getting them to contract their products under licence to serious medical device manufacturers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise0 -
It was the equivalent of Mao Tse Tung's attempt to get peasants to go into steel production. It was a complete joke and most likely driven by a desire to give government cronies (Dyson and Bamford) a free publicity ego trip.bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.1 -
Oh ? I just took it as read that we'd use existing manufacturers AND then the Dyson stuff on top.bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.0 -
Perhaps so. I think though it's implausible that any big company would risk a sharabang show on this.Nigel_Foremain said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
A disgusting attempt at a PR stunt that diverted attention away from more serious efforts. The government might have better used valuable time in discussions with our very large pharma biotech and diagnostic sector to work out ways of ramping up testing. Instead they chose to give publicity to Brexit supporting showboaters such as Dyson and Bamford of JCB, pretending they can magic up ventilators (of which they have zero experience) rather than speaking to proper ventilator manufacturers and getting them to contract their products under licence to serious medical device manufacturers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise0 -
Dyson's and others issues with the ventilators, as much as it may be a source of smart arse amusement, isn't good news. Again, ensuring the capacity is there is critical to lifting the relative stasis that the country is in.
My earlier post mentioning that the govt is likely to look at relaxing things post the May day bank holiday or holding out until the end of May holiday has probably been borne out by the local administration in Northern Ireland holding the current restrictions until the 9th May. I suspect this has already been agreed elsewhere but the bods in Belfast jumped the gun. NI is not considered far behind London in its cycle, a few days at most and the Health Minister here has suggested that the 1st wave projections aren't half as ugly as first thought.
Bank holidays loom large in thinking. I'm wondering if mentally the politicians and the civil servants fear that if they make moves to relax things before a bank holiday that everyone on their extra day off will just run out and go apeshit and stand next to each other or something.
The real challenge might be July/August, likely to have many restrictions lifted, holiday season and potentially a gentle run in to things picking up autumn, but there are still a lot of holidays booked.0 -
Not how it works. Anyone with a miniscule understanding of medical device manufacture would know this was nonsense, and I suspect there must have been plenty of people who would have told them so . It was comic book propaganda at best and a PR stunt for cronies at worst. Take your pick.Pulpstar said:
Oh ? I just took it as read that we'd use existing manufacturers AND then the Dyson stuff on top.bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.0 -
If the thinking was a higher peak in June, then emergency ventilators arriving then was necessary to make that work. Once you accept that "as many cases as possible this summer to build immunity, with as much emergency healthcare as we can procure" has been replaced by "keep the cases down while we work out the next step" then the needs change.MarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de0 -
As a cyclist I find that offensive.Nigel_Foremain said:
Could be a new post-pandemic sport. Higher points for hitting one that is in full on lycraCharles said:
I’d be impressed if you could throw a bottle bank at a passing cyclistMarqueeMark said:Bottlebanks - do we think we should still be using them?
Or should I save them to throw at passing cyclists?0 -
Can someone help me with this quiz question: "Ignoring Tony Blair, who was the last labour leader to win a general election to become Prime Minister? "
I think Harold Wilson?0 -
Dyson provides update in marketing speak - No other Ventilator commissioned from scratch by the Govt has more NHS approved numbers than ours!!!
Or weve got just as many as JCB and F1 combined past the rigorous NHS tests0 -
Checking Flightradar24, there is not a single A380 in the air - and only one 346 (Iranian airline) - my two favourite aircraft. Plenty of 747 - almost all of them cargo. Ironically about half a dozen of the original Airbus wide bodies - the A300 are in the air hauling cargo.0
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Oh they most definitely will, particularly when led by an egotist like Dyson. He probably arrogantly thought it would be as easy as a vacuum cleaner. The main difference that Mr Dyson clearly doesn't understand is that a human life is not dependent upon a cordless bagless vac!!Omnium said:
Perhaps so. I think though it's implausible that any big company would risk a sharabang show on this.Nigel_Foremain said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
A disgusting attempt at a PR stunt that diverted attention away from more serious efforts. The government might have better used valuable time in discussions with our very large pharma biotech and diagnostic sector to work out ways of ramping up testing. Instead they chose to give publicity to Brexit supporting showboaters such as Dyson and Bamford of JCB, pretending they can magic up ventilators (of which they have zero experience) rather than speaking to proper ventilator manufacturers and getting them to contract their products under licence to serious medical device manufacturers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
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But just like Brexit, if you believe hard enough, they'll work.bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
https://youtu.be/glnm2J7qsEg0 -
I could see May 8th becoming a joint celebration of two kinds of deliverance - one from war in 1945 and another from coronavirus in 2020.Yokes said:Dyson's and others issues with the ventilators, as much as it may be a source of smart arse amusement, isn't good news. Again, ensuring the capacity is there is critical to lifting the relative stasis that the country is in.
My earlier post mentioning that the govt is likely to look at relaxing things post the May day bank holiday or holding out until the end of May holiday has probably been borne out by the local administration in Northern Ireland holding the current restrictions until the 9th May. I suspect this has already been agreed elsewhere but the bods in Belfast jumped the gun. NI is not considered far behind London in its cycle, a few days at most and the Health Minister here has suggested that the 1st wave projections aren't half as ugly as first thought.
Bank holidays loom large in thinking. I'm wondering if mentally the politicians and the civil servants fear that if they make moves to relax things before a bank holiday that everyone on their extra day off will just run out and go apeshit and stand next to each other or something.
The real challenge might be July/August, likely to have many restrictions lifted, holiday season and potentially a gentle run in to things picking up autumn, but there are still a lot of holidays booked.
A little overblown perhaps but I could see the Govenrment trying to roll the two events into one symbolically - perhaps the Thursday night clapping will be Friday lunchtime clapping that week.
The weekend and restrictions eased from Monday morning.0 -
Actually no, if it is 5% it is good at this time. It appears a common pattern is 35% per day, 21-22%, 13% and then 8%. Its a remarkably consistent progression that many European countries have followed in their curve. Given the contagious nature of this thing, 5% growth is very manageable from a public health perspective. Sustained 35% and 20% odd percent most definitely not.stodge said:
I confess I'm still hugely cautious over these figures. Confirmed vases still increasing by nearly 5% per day which suggests the virus is still going strong - is anyone applying a ratio for known cases to unknown cases to get a sense of how many actual cases there are?AlastairMeeks said:
The government will almost certainly have better figures. Deaths aren’t included in the public figures until relatives have been notified. But the hospitals will presumably have privately reported to the government the actual numbers well before then.
I'm of the view as cases fall and capacity becomes available the urgent non-Covid patients need to have some priority with the rescheduling of cancelled procedures vital and if we have some spare capactity why not keep it running to clear the backlog and help those who have had to suffer because NHS resources have been required elsewhere.0 -
Have we drafted Dyson and JCB in to ramp up testing yet?1
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The new boys (F1 consortium, Dyson perhaps, Musk in the states) seem to be producing CPAPs but who have we orderede the heavy duty *real* ventilators from ?0
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I think nothing gets lifted until after. Announcements on business and commerce yes before but no actual activation until after May Day.stodge said:
I could see May 8th becoming a joint celebration of two kinds of deliverance - one from war in 1945 and another from coronavirus in 2020.Yokes said:Dyson's and others issues with the ventilators, as much as it may be a source of smart arse amusement, isn't good news. Again, ensuring the capacity is there is critical to lifting the relative stasis that the country is in.
My earlier post mentioning that the govt is likely to look at relaxing things post the May day bank holiday or holding out until the end of May holiday has probably been borne out by the local administration in Northern Ireland holding the current restrictions until the 9th May. I suspect this has already been agreed elsewhere but the bods in Belfast jumped the gun. NI is not considered far behind London in its cycle, a few days at most and the Health Minister here has suggested that the 1st wave projections aren't half as ugly as first thought.
Bank holidays loom large in thinking. I'm wondering if mentally the politicians and the civil servants fear that if they make moves to relax things before a bank holiday that everyone on their extra day off will just run out and go apeshit and stand next to each other or something.
The real challenge might be July/August, likely to have many restrictions lifted, holiday season and potentially a gentle run in to things picking up autumn, but there are still a lot of holidays booked.
A little overblown perhaps but I could see the Govenrment trying to roll the two events into one symbolically - perhaps the Thursday night clapping will be Friday lunchtime clapping that week.
The weekend and restrictions eased from Monday morning.
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When i have trouble sleeping I try to imagine the magnitude of Graham's number rather than count sheep -It is actually mindblowing how big it is .Each time I think about it I realise it is bigger than before. Although there are bigger numbers - look at the Numberphile video on TREE(3) which is bigger than Grahams Number and also mindblowing.kle4 said:
I haven't the slightest clue what mathematicians mean even when they explain it.Fysics_Teacher said:
For anybody who wants to know more here is a video with Graham himself explaining it.Stereotomy said:
Graham's number is so large that any physics-based analogies massively understate its scaleFysics_Teacher said:On the previous thread some people were commenting on a particularly large range of predicted results.
The largest range I know of involves Graham’s Number. When it was first published in the early 70s it was then the largest number ever used in a mathematical proof. It is a number so large the the visible universe is too small to write out the number which is the number of digits needed to write out the number. If you could somehow know the number then the information contained in it would cause your brain to collapse as a black hole (and that is not an exaggeration).
This was not the answer to the problem though, it was nearly the upper bound. The lower bound was...
3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuigptwlVHo0 -
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Musk is in partnership with Medtronic, one of the world's biggest and leading medical device manufacturers. He is basically manufacturing their products in his facility. Don't know how the F1 consortium is going, but I know they have been adapting their tech to medical device applications for some time.Pulpstar said:The new boys (F1 consortium, Dyson perhaps, Musk in the states) seem to be producing CPAPs but who have we orderede the heavy duty *real* ventilators from ?
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Yes so on Monday May 11th small shops re-open, perhaps some construction and some schools with the next phase after the Bank Holiday later in the month with Monday June 1st the next big relaxation.Yokes said:
I think nothing gets lifted until after. Announcements on business and commerce yes before but no actual activation until after May Day.
Social distancing to remain "official" but increasingly more honoured in the breach than the observance and the restrictions remaining for the vulnerable for perhaps another month - just some back-of-an-envelope thoughts.
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yea, cos there can't be much difference between making a qPCR diagnostic device and a vacuum cleaner or a digger can there? I mean why shouldn't we ask them to try? Perhaps the chemical reagent can be brewed in a Weatherspoons pub? That'd be really plucky!bigjohnowls said:Have we drafted Dyson and JCB in to ramp up testing yet?
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When does he get promoted?CarlottaVance said:Captain Tom passes £8 million....
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For those earlier asking about testing on 12/4/20 this is what BBC said source supposedly DHSC
https://twitter.com/StaveleyMWFCSo1/status/1250485208081674245/photo/10 -
The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.8 -
Presumably Govt allowed JCB and Dyson to take over all testing for 1 day!!bigjohnowls said:For those earlier asking about testing on 12/4/20 this is what BBC said source supposedly DHSC
https://twitter.com/StaveleyMWFCSo1/status/1250485208081674245/photo/10 -
Ba-doom tish!TheScreamingEagles said:The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.
Still a bit raw for me after, we had to can the Dart Music Festival in May....0 -
Local anomalies? Specialisation of hospitals?bigjohnowls said:
Was speaking to a nurse yesterday. For some departments its very quiet all their normal patients have been cancelled. Other areas "its like a warzone".CarlottaVance said:
From what Hancock just said i dont really understand how it can be like a warzone sounds like there are plenty of excess beds0 -
MayDay is before the 8th?Yokes said:
I think nothing gets lifted until after. Announcements on business and commerce yes before but no actual activation until after May Day.stodge said:
I could see May 8th becoming a joint celebration of two kinds of deliverance - one from war in 1945 and another from coronavirus in 2020.Yokes said:Dyson's and others issues with the ventilators, as much as it may be a source of smart arse amusement, isn't good news. Again, ensuring the capacity is there is critical to lifting the relative stasis that the country is in.
My earlier post mentioning that the govt is likely to look at relaxing things post the May day bank holiday or holding out until the end of May holiday has probably been borne out by the local administration in Northern Ireland holding the current restrictions until the 9th May. I suspect this has already been agreed elsewhere but the bods in Belfast jumped the gun. NI is not considered far behind London in its cycle, a few days at most and the Health Minister here has suggested that the 1st wave projections aren't half as ugly as first thought.
Bank holidays loom large in thinking. I'm wondering if mentally the politicians and the civil servants fear that if they make moves to relax things before a bank holiday that everyone on their extra day off will just run out and go apeshit and stand next to each other or something.
The real challenge might be July/August, likely to have many restrictions lifted, holiday season and potentially a gentle run in to things picking up autumn, but there are still a lot of holidays booked.
A little overblown perhaps but I could see the Govenrment trying to roll the two events into one symbolically - perhaps the Thursday night clapping will be Friday lunchtime clapping that week.
The weekend and restrictions eased from Monday morning.0 -
Top postNigel_Foremain said:
yea, cos there can't be much difference between making a qPCR diagnostic device and a vacuum cleaner or a digger can there? I mean why shouldn't we ask them to try? Perhaps the chemical reagent can be brewed in a Weatherspoons pub? That'd be really plucky!bigjohnowls said:Have we drafted Dyson and JCB in to ramp up testing yet?
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who didn't?Pulpstar said:
Oh ? I just took it as read that we'd use existing manufacturers AND then the Dyson stuff on top.bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.
likewise that BBC chart0 -
Captain Tom on £8.73m - through £9m by the news tonight, through £10m for breakfast?0
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Very good.TheScreamingEagles said:The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.
One of your better efforts.
We must meet up again post lockdown0 -
Sadly this sort of fantasy Boys Own thinking seems to characterise this government's understanding of reality. Cummings seems to think he's some of STEM superguru but really...Nigel_Foremain said:
yea, cos there can't be much difference between making a qPCR diagnostic device and a vacuum cleaner or a digger can there? I mean why shouldn't we ask them to try? Perhaps the chemical reagent can be brewed in a Weatherspoons pub? That'd be really plucky!bigjohnowls said:Have we drafted Dyson and JCB in to ramp up testing yet?
1 -
Mr Stodge,
Those suggestions for easing the lockdown look like a good guess. As good as anyone else's..0 -
The government changed the specification during the prototyping phase. Strangely, this meant that machine manufactured to the original spec didn't meet the new one. So the people building ventilators are updating their designs....Stuartinromford said:
If the thinking was a higher peak in June, then emergency ventilators arriving then was necessary to make that work. Once you accept that "as many cases as possible this summer to build immunity, with as much emergency healthcare as we can procure" has been replaced by "keep the cases down while we work out the next step" then the needs change.MarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52274270 actually gives a better update on what is going on in the area.
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I refer to the bank holiday day which is the 8th this year.BannedinnParis said:
MayDay is before the 8th?Yokes said:
I think nothing gets lifted until after. Announcements on business and commerce yes before but no actual activation until after May Day.stodge said:
I could see May 8th becoming a joint celebration of two kinds of deliverance - one from war in 1945 and another from coronavirus in 2020.Yokes said:Dyson's and others issues with the ventilators, as much as it may be a source of smart arse amusement, isn't good news. Again, ensuring the capacity is there is critical to lifting the relative stasis that the country is in.
My earlier post mentioning that the govt is likely to look at relaxing things post the May day bank holiday or holding out until the end of May holiday has probably been borne out by the local administration in Northern Ireland holding the current restrictions until the 9th May. I suspect this has already been agreed elsewhere but the bods in Belfast jumped the gun. NI is not considered far behind London in its cycle, a few days at most and the Health Minister here has suggested that the 1st wave projections aren't half as ugly as first thought.
Bank holidays loom large in thinking. I'm wondering if mentally the politicians and the civil servants fear that if they make moves to relax things before a bank holiday that everyone on their extra day off will just run out and go apeshit and stand next to each other or something.
The real challenge might be July/August, likely to have many restrictions lifted, holiday season and potentially a gentle run in to things picking up autumn, but there are still a lot of holidays booked.
A little overblown perhaps but I could see the Govenrment trying to roll the two events into one symbolically - perhaps the Thursday night clapping will be Friday lunchtime clapping that week.
The weekend and restrictions eased from Monday morning.0 -
It'll be great to meet up again.bigjohnowls said:
Very good.TheScreamingEagles said:The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.
One of your better efforts.
We must meet up again post lockdown0 -
Sorry.MarqueeMark said:
Ba-doom tish!TheScreamingEagles said:The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.
Still a bit raw for me after, we had to can the Dart Music Festival in May....0 -
I think schools are likely to open on or about 4th May.stodge said:
Yes so on Monday May 11th small shops re-open, perhaps some construction and some schools with the next phase after the Bank Holiday later in the month with Monday June 1st the next big relaxation.Yokes said:
I think nothing gets lifted until after. Announcements on business and commerce yes before but no actual activation until after May Day.
Social distancing to remain "official" but increasingly more honoured in the breach than the observance and the restrictions remaining for the vulnerable for perhaps another month - just some back-of-an-envelope thoughts.0 -
I imagine that's what has happened to the Dyson design as well, they probably don't need the new spec either.Malmesbury said:
The government changed the specification during the prototyping phase. Strangely, this meant that machine manufactured to the original spec didn't meet the new one. So the people building ventilators are updating their designs....Stuartinromford said:
If the thinking was a higher peak in June, then emergency ventilators arriving then was necessary to make that work. Once you accept that "as many cases as possible this summer to build immunity, with as much emergency healthcare as we can procure" has been replaced by "keep the cases down while we work out the next step" then the needs change.MarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52274270 actually gives a better update on what is going on in the area.0 -
We’re just a Substitute for the US...CarlottaVance said:0 -
I literally had that this afternoon with an uncle. It's extremely frustrating.Alistair said:0 -
..0
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You mean the one i posted at 7.08pm?BannedinnParis said:
who didn't?Pulpstar said:
Oh ? I just took it as read that we'd use existing manufacturers AND then the Dyson stuff on top.bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.
likewise that BBC chart
And this is one of many traditional manufacturers suggesting he could ramp up production if asked from weeks ago. 5 LIVE have had several on but you can trawl back as i am too busy making up fake bbc news charts
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-ventilators-parts-manufacturer-dyson-airbus-boris-johnson-25189000 -
It happened to everyone making new ventilators - TBF the government warned everybody that requirements weren't locked down.MaxPB said:
I imagine that's what has happened to the Dyson design as well, they probably don't need the new spec either.Malmesbury said:
The government changed the specification during the prototyping phase. Strangely, this meant that machine manufactured to the original spec didn't meet the new one. So the people building ventilators are updating their designs....Stuartinromford said:
If the thinking was a higher peak in June, then emergency ventilators arriving then was necessary to make that work. Once you accept that "as many cases as possible this summer to build immunity, with as much emergency healthcare as we can procure" has been replaced by "keep the cases down while we work out the next step" then the needs change.MarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52274270 actually gives a better update on what is going on in the area.
As we saw in the last thread (the not-like HAPE thing) - interesting stuff is coming out about the effects of COVID19 all the time.0 -
If he is ex Army won't he already have the courtesy one rank up.promotion on retirement ?Charles said:
When does he get promoted?CarlottaVance said:Captain Tom passes £8 million....
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"the NHS decided this relatively simple model was no longer required because the treatment of Covid-19 patients required more sophisticated devices than it was originally thought were needed."
The spec changed as the experience with treatment changed. Nobody is saying it was wasted effort.
Mercedes at Brixworth producing 1,000 CPAP units a day is a solid outcome.
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I think he will get a minimum of £15m nowMarqueeMark said:Captain Tom on £8.73m - through £9m by the news tonight, through £10m for breakfast?
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I thought this was “fake news” anyway? Names can’t be released until families are informed but they are included in the aggregate numbers straight away.JonathanD said:
How long can it take to phone and tell the relative that the person they waved off to hospital is dead?AlastairMeeks said:
The government will almost certainly have better figures. Deaths aren’t included in the public figures until relatives have been notified. But the hospitals will presumably have privately reported to the government the actual numbers well before then.JonathanD said:
Extraordinary that in the midst of a mass death event where a large portion of the economy is shut down there is lack of reporting resources at the weekend / Bank Holiday. These are massively important figures, not some incidental.bigjohnowls said:Chris Whitty thinks deaths not caught up with weekend BH lag yet if i heard right.
I'd be hugely underwhelmed if my wife died in hospital and I wasn't told until 3 or 4 days later because it was a weekend.
I can understand there are difficulties in sudden deaths in finding the relatives but not in cases like this where they presumably have had some time before death to locate the relative.
(FWIW it look about an hour for the hospital to call my Mum. I assume there are various formalities they need to do on their end first)0 -
Which existing ventilator manufacturers were/are twiddling their thumbs?bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.
Maquet, Draeger, Smiths, Hamilton and GE certainly aren’t but I don’t have visibility on the others0 -
Who are you to say such a thingNigelb said:
We’re just a Substitute for the US...CarlottaVance said:0 -
Less than half a million people have donated. That is PATHETIC Britain. Where are the other 66m of you? Skinflints! Pull your finger out - we want £100m for his 100th birthday, settle for nothing less....bigjohnowls said:
I think he will get a minimum of £15m nowMarqueeMark said:Captain Tom on £8.73m - through £9m by the news tonight, through £10m for breakfast?
0 -
hmm according to the DHSC by 9am on the 12th they'd done 352,974 tests.bigjohnowls said:For those earlier asking about testing on 12/4/20 this is what BBC said source supposedly DHSC
https://twitter.com/StaveleyMWFCSo1/status/1250485208081674245/photo/1
By 9am on the 13th they had done 367,667 tests.
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249345659355922432
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249693469733421056
or a difference of 14k cases. I guess they all could have been done between midnight and 9am on the 13th but that seems unlikely.
Or the BBC has screwed it up.0 -
For IDS and those on here who think that hydrogen cars are a better idea than battery ones. A comparison of efficiencies is in this article
https://electrek.co/2020/04/15/porsche-rd-boss-speaks-about-tesla-batteries-macan-ev-and-why-hydrogen-fails/0 -
I agree. Full on lycra is unacceptable in any polite societyMikeSmithson said:
As a cyclist I find that offensive.Nigel_Foremain said:
Could be a new post-pandemic sport. Higher points for hitting one that is in full on lycraCharles said:
I’d be impressed if you could throw a bottle bank at a passing cyclistMarqueeMark said:Bottlebanks - do we think we should still be using them?
Or should I save them to throw at passing cyclists?0 -
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The NHS self diagnosis website data peaked on the day of lockdown, so with a 7 day median time to symptoms, it looks like transmission peaked before lockdown started and thus pre-lockdown common sense self policing was sufficient to get R0 below 1. As such I'm pretty sanguine that we can exit lockdown without causing an immediate 2nd peak unless people act like cretins about it without any self restraint.0
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On they employed former LibDem bar charters?Denspark said:
hmm according to the DHSC by 9am on the 12th they'd done 352,974 tests.bigjohnowls said:For those earlier asking about testing on 12/4/20 this is what BBC said source supposedly DHSC
https://twitter.com/StaveleyMWFCSo1/status/1250485208081674245/photo/1
By 9am on the 13th they had done 367,667 tests.
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249345659355922432
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249693469733421056
or a difference of 14k cases. I guess they all could have been done between midnight and 9am on the 13th but that seems unlikely.
Or the BBC has screwed it up.0 -
Schoolboy error. Like, every enforcement agency on the planet is going to think of the street value of those masks.....HYUFD said:1 -
Oh, drug dealers, such creative types.HYUFD said:0 -
A real good looking boy, of course.Banterman said:
Who are you to say such a thingNigelb said:
We’re just a Substitute for the US...CarlottaVance said:
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Wham! It’s a tragedy that you Crush-ed that pun in thereTheScreamingEagles said:The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.0 -
It does look ridiculous i agree.Denspark said:
hmm according to the DHSC by 9am on the 12th they'd done 352,974 tests.bigjohnowls said:For those earlier asking about testing on 12/4/20 this is what BBC said source supposedly DHSC
https://twitter.com/StaveleyMWFCSo1/status/1250485208081674245/photo/1
By 9am on the 13th they had done 367,667 tests.
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249345659355922432
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249693469733421056
or a difference of 14k cases. I guess they all could have been done between midnight and 9am on the 13th but that seems unlikely.
Or the BBC has screwed it up.
Either DHSC or BBC have surely made an error in the bar chart0 -
More substantively...CarlottaVance said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/trump-threatens-defund-world-health-organization/610030/
... to weigh these reasons, good and bad—the WHO’s sins against its virtues—is to go back to playing the sucker’s game, and to have an excellent view of Abdul-Jabbar’s armpit as the basketball hurtles overhead toward the hoop. Cutting off money to the WHO is not about policy. It is misdirection: Look here, not there, because you are calling attention to something you are not welcome to see.
The crisis in the United States has passed the point where literally everyone in the country feels personally affected—grieving for the dead or dying; in fear of poverty or hunger; robbed of beloved cultural figures; or just stuck at home. The question Are you better off than you were four years ago? is a sick joke, and Trump knows that it is going to be at his expense, electorally speaking. Naturally, he responds with the tactic that has served him well before: Swap a question with an answer that damns him for one with a complicated, controversial answer that tends to damn someone, anyone, else. Watch CBS’s Paula Reid at Monday’s press conference, asking the first question: “What did you do with the month of February?” Why don’t we have extensive testing capabilities, and why are hospitals still scrambling for the gear and equipment they need to protect health-care workers and save patients?
Trump, caught having completely bungled the only issue anyone will remember him for, will do anything to escape prosecutorial inquiries like these. He will be pleased, instead, to field complaints about his treatment of the WHO. The tactic he is using is one that has fooled too many people, too many times....
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Missed an opportunity to get in the Scone Roses....Charles said:
Wham! It’s a tragedy that you Crush-ed that pun in thereTheScreamingEagles said:The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.0 -
Less than 1% of his (almost entirely inherited) total wealth.HYUFD said:0 -
Still more than what Brenda and her family have given I think.not_on_fire said:
Less than 1% of his (almost entirely inherited) total wealth.HYUFD said:0 -
That would be a four day week - perhaps and it's interesting to see Denmark and Germany have opened infant schools first so maybe some nurseries but I still think a big national celebration/sigh of relief/thanksgiving (delete as appropriate) on May 8th and then a sense of a slight return to normality as of the 11th.Andy_JS said:
I think schools are likely to open on or about 4th May.stodge said:
Yes so on Monday May 11th small shops re-open, perhaps some construction and some schools with the next phase after the Bank Holiday later in the month with Monday June 1st the next big relaxation.Yokes said:
I think nothing gets lifted until after. Announcements on business and commerce yes before but no actual activation until after May Day.
Social distancing to remain "official" but increasingly more honoured in the breach than the observance and the restrictions remaining for the vulnerable for perhaps another month - just some back-of-an-envelope thoughts.0 -
Here's what Musk did.bigjohnowls said:
ExactlyNigel_Foremain said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
A disgusting attempt at a PR stunt that diverted attention away from more serious efforts. The government might have better used valuable time in discussions with our very large pharma biotech and diagnostic sector to work out ways of ramping up testing. Instead they chose to give publicity to Brexit supporting showboaters such as Dyson and Bamford of JCB, pretending they can magic up ventilators (of which they have zero experience) rather than speaking to proper ventilator manufacturers and getting them to contract their products under licence to serious medical device manufacturers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-ventilator-covid-19/0 -
The same BBC news item said there had been over 16,000 yesterday again the bar chart seems inconsistent with that.Denspark said:
hmm according to the DHSC by 9am on the 12th they'd done 352,974 tests.bigjohnowls said:For those earlier asking about testing on 12/4/20 this is what BBC said source supposedly DHSC
https://twitter.com/StaveleyMWFCSo1/status/1250485208081674245/photo/1
By 9am on the 13th they had done 367,667 tests.
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249345659355922432
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1249693469733421056
or a difference of 14k cases. I guess they all could have been done between midnight and 9am on the 13th but that seems unlikely.
Or the BBC has screwed it up.
Could be people rather than tests i suppose but chart says tests0 -
And who's issue is this, the government, who were told they needed tens of thousands of the things at the outset or the civil servants who actually execute it?bigjohnowls said:
You mean the one i posted at 7.08pm?BannedinnParis said:
who didn't?Pulpstar said:
Oh ? I just took it as read that we'd use existing manufacturers AND then the Dyson stuff on top.bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.
likewise that BBC chart
And this is one of many traditional manufacturers suggesting he could ramp up production if asked from weeks ago. 5 LIVE have had several on but you can trawl back as i am too busy making up fake bbc news charts
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-ventilators-parts-manufacturer-dyson-airbus-boris-johnson-2518900
Its going to get buried but I have had now three situations pointed out to me over here about how civil service procurement, local govt workers who are important in community effort and operational management have been seriously poor in their flexibility or taking the piss who are because they couldn't get the finger out. I suspect other parts of the UK are no different in having these paragons of inability.
We are dealing with an unknown, less than couple of months of data and understanding and we, like many countries didn't have a great picture of where this was going to go. We still do not. Government has thrown the kitchen sink at some key areas in the hope of as much mud sticking as possible, which is exactly how shit works sometimes. As I understand it wasn't, for example, govt ministers who at first wanted testing restricted to certain Public Health labs for example, it was the civil servants.
The politicians are not all at fault here, they direct they do not execute. The civil service will have as much to account for as the politicians and the political advisors. So will parts of the NHS who will have lessons to learn.
No one needs persecuting for making errors here first time around. Incompetence or sheer inability to think outside the box on the other hand deserves a kick in the arse.
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Dont know where dont know when but i know we'll ...................................TheScreamingEagles said:
It'll be great to meet up again.bigjohnowls said:
Very good.TheScreamingEagles said:The Devon & Cornwall musical festival has been cancelled.
Nothing to do with Covid-19, they couldn't decide which to put on first, The Jam or Cream.
One of your better efforts.
We must meet up again post lockdown0 -
The article says:bigjohnowls said:
You mean the one i posted at 7.08pm?BannedinnParis said:
who didn't?Pulpstar said:
Oh ? I just took it as read that we'd use existing manufacturers AND then the Dyson stuff on top.bigjohnowls said:
No I was shouting at the time why start from scratch when current manufacturers were twiddling their thumbs saying they could scale upMarqueeMark said:
If they hadn't bothered, you would be here 24/7 screaming "WHY DIDN'T THEY AT LEAST TRY???"bigjohnowls said:Its not just Dyson either. The Govts great egg race approach appears to have been folly
https://www.ft.com/content/e447cab3-8b6b-47ed-bf69-3a43140a42de
Another waste of time and resource.
Nice publicity at the time but ultimately another compete and absolute failure that you didnt need to be very clever to forecast.
likewise that BBC chart
And this is one of many traditional manufacturers suggesting he could ramp up production if asked from weeks ago. 5 LIVE have had several on but you can trawl back as i am too busy making up fake bbc news charts
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-ventilators-parts-manufacturer-dyson-airbus-boris-johnson-2518900
a) he’s been involved in the Nightingale build out
b) he’s a parts manufacturer and has to wait until the devices were sorted out so they knew what parts they needed to build
You seem to be suggesting that the government should have ordered parts on spec?0 -
Depends on ground control’s views I supposesquareroot2 said:
If he is ex Army won't he already have the courtesy one rank up.promotion on retirement ?Charles said:
When does he get promoted?CarlottaVance said:Captain Tom passes £8 million....
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Suggest you two crack open a bottle and celebrate.bigjohnowls said:
ExactlyNigel_Foremain said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise
A disgusting attempt at a PR stunt that diverted attention away from more serious efforts. The government might have better used valuable time in discussions with our very large pharma biotech and diagnostic sector to work out ways of ramping up testing. Instead they chose to give publicity to Brexit supporting showboaters such as Dyson and Bamford of JCB, pretending they can magic up ventilators (of which they have zero experience) rather than speaking to proper ventilator manufacturers and getting them to contract their products under licence to serious medical device manufacturers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Dysons suck?bigjohnowls said:I see Dyson ventilators have so far failed to pass safety tests
What a surprise0 -
Still he didnt have to give itnot_on_fire said:
Less than 1% of his (almost entirely inherited) total wealth.HYUFD said:
He should be applauded IMO
Just not quite as loudly as Tom1 -
You're throwing bottle banks at passing cyclists? Remind me never to upset you...MarqueeMark said:Bottlebanks - do we think we should still be using them?
Or should I save them to throw at passing cyclists?0 -
Apparently Mercedes have already made 10,000 CPAP devices. They are making this things like they are doing a pitstop.
In early testing, on around 40 patients, who would otherwise have gone on a ventilator, found half were able to go home within 14 days of admission to hospital.
There is evidence from places like NY that putting people on traditional ventilators should be avoided at all costs, as some suggestion that actually worsens their situation (although obviously if they are even considering that you are in a really really bad way).1 -
So f*cking what? He didn’t have to give anything.not_on_fire said:
Less than 1% of his (almost entirely inherited) total wealth.HYUFD said:3
