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That's not an answer to the question of if they even have that number of members to join the Tories. It would be terrible if it is true, but if it is not what action can be taken, yet lack of action would be seen as enabling it?justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?0 -
Are you for, against or liberal towards a United Ireland?Beibheirli_C said:0 -
How are those ambiguous? You are wishing all three items on all nations, no?Beibheirli_C said:
Because you can haveSunil_Prasannan said:
How is that ambiguity comparable to:ydoethur said:
Highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collectorkle4 said:
Works of the devil never trust them that's what I always say that is a fact.viewcode said:
There's these things called "commas". Dead handy they are. Just saying.HYUFD said:
It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.IanB2 said:Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.
"Peace, prosperity and friendship with all nations"?
Why is a second comma necessary to "de-ambiguise" (if that's a word!) the Brexit coin?
"Peace", "Prosperity & Friendship" (2 options)
or you can have
"Peace", "Prosperity" and "Friendship" (3 options)0 -
I was trying to broaden the debate away from the routine anti-left baiting on the issue.Casino_Royale said:
That's not the debate here though, is it? And, if it was, by the same token, this lady would surely be arguing to pay reparations to China for - err - having the audacity to swipe Hong Kong and handing it back as the one of the wealthiest parts of the world (and free-est part of China) on our departure.
We can find all sorts of events in our history that don't measure up to today's standards. Some were isolated events. Others were not. In many areas there is a positive legacy. In other areas the legacy is decidedly mixed. We can find many more examples in other nations in their past, many (indeed most) far worse and more barbaric.
It's notable that such arguments are always made in generalities: heavy on rhetoric and light on evidence. In this instance she's just lifted some bog standard shibboleths of the marxist Left, added precisely no new thinking of her own (or any thinking at all) and has simply repeated them here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.
The circumstances under which the Opium Wars started don't show Britain to best advantage but as you and others have said and I cheerfully concede, there's no point judging the actions of the 1840s by the standards and mores of the 2020s.
Equally, I gladly concede every Imperial power is guilty of being as bad if not worse (and I would include American treatment of its native peoples).
Nonetheless, an honest assessment of what we did is a part of the teaching of history and there's a lot of good in there as well. I agree it shouldn't be used as a political football by the Left but nor should it be by the Right dressed up as a uniformly positive experience.2 -
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How about Labour under Corbyn?justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?0 -
Has Sam been on the blower saying for God's sake please give him a job, he is a total nightmare at home, with that bloody caravan and me having to read all that drivel he keeps writing.TheScreamingEagles said:He's back
twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/12247853530155458700 -
I hope that is correct.FrancisUrquhart said:
Call total bullshit...justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
However, Britain First’s actual size is disputed, with extremism watchdog Hope Not Hate estimating it to have a membership of only around 1,000.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/?ito=cbshare0 -
Untrue I'd assume.justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?0 -
No he isn't...TheScreamingEagles said:
However, it is understood that Mr Cameron turned down the role in recent days, forcing Mr Johnson to lower his ambitions and make a ministerial appointment, which is expected to be announced in the coming days....0 -
Empire is fundamentally undemocratic. Better for it to have been a Federal entity, what I like to call a "Commonwealth Union".HYUFD said:
53% of British voters were proud of the British Empire to only 19% ashamed in a 2014 Yougov poll. 49% thought it made the colonies better off to only 15% worse off.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:
34% of voters still wanted Britain to have an Empire, with 45% not wanting the Empire to still exist today.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/07/26/britain-proud-its-empire1 -
But, that's a false equivalence. Many were far less brutish than others. It's one reason the East India Company was wound up in the 1850s and control of British India passed to HMG.kle4 said:
There were no non-brutish empires.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:
In most parts of the Empire the broad policy was to develop responsible self-government. This included India with both legal and educational reforms. Even Ghandi himself was studying law in England in the 1890s, when moves to Indian local government were underway. Responsible Government was given to all of the dominions over the 1920s and 1930s too.
The British Empire was not an empire settled and conquered solely by brute force, as is often characterised. In fact that rarely happened and it was largely acquired by accident, with local colonial officers often having just as much concern for fair administration as people today would in DfID.
These crude judgements applied across history grate my cheese, and it really would help us make better society and better policy if we started to acknowledge the many shades of grey within in and the context of the times.0 -
It is always curious how it is only certain bad stuff in our history that is picked on. So, for instance, those concerned about bigotry and making demands for reparations don’t pick the many years of anti-Catholic laws and prejudices which existed in this country and demand that reparations be paid for that. And, yet, by their own logic, the claim for such reparations is quite as good as that for slavery. Or what about reparations for English actions in Ireland and so on.Casino_Royale said:
That's not the debate here though, is it? And, if it was, by the same token, this lady would surely be arguing to pay reparations to China for - err - having the audacity to swipe Hong Kong and handing it back as the one of the wealthiest parts of the world (and free-est part of China) on our departure.stodge said:
Perhaps but even that left-winger Michael Portillo has conceded Britain's involvement in the Opium Wars wasn't one of our most honourable actions.Casino_Royale said:
What a stream of shite.
She can piss off, quite frankly.
We can find all sorts of events in our history that don't measure up to today's standards. Some were isolated events. Others were not. In many areas there is a positive legacy. In other areas the legacy is decidedly mixed. We can find many more examples in other nations in their past, many (indeed most) far worse and more barbaric.
This schoolboy debating style of reaching back into history three hundred years to contrive some causal link to the challenges of today is as simplistic as it is nonsensical. Quite aside from being inaccurate it stirs up and reinforces a crude racial divide.
It's notable that such arguments are always made in generalities: heavy on rhetoric and light on evidence. In this instance she's just lifted some bog standard shibboleths of the marxist Left, added precisely no new thinking of her own (or any thinking at all) and has simply repeated them here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.
To be clear, I don’t support such nonsense. History is what it is. No-one now is responsible for what happened decades or centuries ago. Far better to be taught the history properly and focus on countering evils happening now.
But the selective, self-serving and ignorant understanding of history really annoys me.2 -
I'm told she liked having him home, he's great with the kids, and is keen to make up time lost on the parenting front.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has Sam been on the blower saying for God's sake please give him a job, he is a total nightmare at home, with that bloody caravan and me having to read all that drivel he keeps writing.TheScreamingEagles said:He's back
twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/12247853530155458700 -
Don't you think if they really have 7000 members when they do their racist rallies they might just get more than a coach load of people?justin124 said:
I hope that is correct.FrancisUrquhart said:
Call total bullshit...justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
However, Britain First’s actual size is disputed, with extremism watchdog Hope Not Hate estimating it to have a membership of only around 1,000.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/?ito=cbshare
What they did have for a while was a lot of people sharing their Facebook content, most of which wasn't explicitly Britain First and initially people didn't really know who the group was.0 -
Indeed so. It's messy, and people need to know it's messy. They also need to be more cautious about mythologising things, negatively and positively. We do enough of that with recent history, let alone older stuff.stodge said:
Nonetheless, an honest assessment of what we did is a part of the teaching of history and there's a lot of good in there as well. I agree it shouldn't be used as a political football by the Left but nor should it be by the Right dressed up as a uniformly positive experience.Casino_Royale said:
That's not the debate here though, is it? And, if it was, by the same token, this lady would surely be arguing to pay reparations to China for - err - having the audacity to swipe Hong Kong and handing it back as the one of the wealthiest parts of the world (and free-est part of China) on our departure.
We can find all sorts of events in our history that don't measure up to today's standards. Some were isolated events. Others were not. In many areas there is a positive legacy. In other areas the legacy is decidedly mixed. We can find many more examples in other nations in their past, many (indeed most) far worse and more barbaric.
It's notable that such arguments are always made in generalities: heavy on rhetoric and light on evidence. In this instance she's just lifted some bog standard shibboleths of the marxist Left, added precisely no new thinking of her own (or any thinking at all) and has simply repeated them here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.0 -
Go Compare...Go compare...TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Well according to the Telegraph he will be continuing to do so.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm told she liked having him home, he's great with the kids, and is keen to make up time lost on the parenting front.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has Sam been on the blower saying for God's sake please give him a job, he is a total nightmare at home, with that bloody caravan and me having to read all that drivel he keeps writing.TheScreamingEagles said:He's back
twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/12247853530155458700 -
If the final results show Biden in fourth or even fifth, why would the big donors stay with him, rather go off to the next best moderate?0
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So stop celebrating it then!kle4 said:
There were no non-brutish empires.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:0 -
If people are interesting RLB is doing a long form interview with Novara Media this evening.0
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In any event membership of the Tory party goes through a filter of a list of known extremists provided by the police. All parties that I am aware of at least *used* to do this. Hell, when I was helping run a student union, there was help to avoid scumbags of all shapes, sizes and denominations turning up at demos etc.FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't you think if they really have 7000 members when they do their racist rallies they might just get more than a coach load of people?justin124 said:
I hope that is correct.FrancisUrquhart said:
Call total bullshit...justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
However, Britain First’s actual size is disputed, with extremism watchdog Hope Not Hate estimating it to have a membership of only around 1,000.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/?ito=cbshare0 -
Sack Raab and make Dave Foreign Secretary.FrancisUrquhart said:
No he isn't...TheScreamingEagles said:
However, it is understood that Mr Cameron turned down the role in recent days, forcing Mr Johnson to lower his ambitions and make a ministerial appointment, which is expected to be announced in the coming days....0 -
It wasn't a false equivalence because I would not dispute the point that some empires were less brutal than others, and that I agree that is something that needs taking into account more along with historical context generally when people try to make assessments. I was merely noting that the attempt at a pun was silly because empire is inherently a brutal process, but I made no equivalence that all empires are the same.Casino_Royale said:
But, that's a false equivalence. Many were far less brutish than others.kle4 said:
There were no non-brutish empires.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:0 -
Well and as the link I posted said, their leader was rejected. Will some random Joe's that have slipped through, probably.Malmesbury said:
In any event membership of the Tory party goes through a filter of a list of known extremists provided by the police. All parties that I am aware of at least *used* to do this. Hell, when I was helping run a student union, there was help to avoid scumbags of all shapes, sizes and denominations turning up at demos etc.FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't you think if they really have 7000 members when they do their racist rallies they might just get more than a coach load of people?justin124 said:
I hope that is correct.FrancisUrquhart said:
Call total bullshit...justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
However, Britain First’s actual size is disputed, with extremism watchdog Hope Not Hate estimating it to have a membership of only around 1,000.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/?ito=cbshare0 -
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
We’ve got a shitload of deals now stacking up out there. All trips cancelled. All our clients are working from home permanently which means they haven’t set eyes on each other for more than a fortnight, never mind their suppliers.Philip_Thompson said:
It will definitely hit the world economy, but based on the proper definition of recession (two consecutive quarters) I really hope that's unlikely. We'll probably see a drop for one quarter due to this but if anything a boost the following quarter after China reopens as businesses try and catch up on backlogs.Andy_JS said:What are the chances of the China situation causing a world recession?
That's not to say there won't be a serious impact.0 -
I don't recall celebrating the brutality of the past in any way, nor endorsing any brutality that might exist in the present. But if the past is to be debated, good and bad, and however flawed as no one is an expert on all of history, then it requires more than the written equivalent of soundbites. Individual events can be simply judged, in or out of context. A period, institution or state cannot, but that's what most politicians want when they start this sort of thing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
So stop celebrating it then!kle4 said:
There were no non-brutish empires.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:0 -
As long as he promises not to write another book!TheScreamingEagles said:
Sack Raab and make Dave Foreign Secretary.FrancisUrquhart said:
No he isn't...TheScreamingEagles said:
However, it is understood that Mr Cameron turned down the role in recent days, forcing Mr Johnson to lower his ambitions and make a ministerial appointment, which is expected to be announced in the coming days....0 -
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.0 -
Padding "membership" is standard in all such groups - remember the issue with the leaked BNP membership list? Turned out to be more a list of details of people they had scrapped together, many of whom had nothing do with the BNP.justin124 said:
I hope that is correct.FrancisUrquhart said:
Call total bullshit...justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
However, Britain First’s actual size is disputed, with extremism watchdog Hope Not Hate estimating it to have a membership of only around 1,000.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/?ito=cbshare0 -
Is anyone on the top one?0 -
I think it is a great idea for former leaders to serve officially in other capacities later, but I think that appointment would be less than optimal.TheScreamingEagles said:
Sack Raab and make Dave Foreign Secretary.FrancisUrquhart said:
No he isn't...TheScreamingEagles said:
However, it is understood that Mr Cameron turned down the role in recent days, forcing Mr Johnson to lower his ambitions and make a ministerial appointment, which is expected to be announced in the coming days....0 -
The police have very good lists of all types of extremist. We had excellent help from them in my Uni days - various nutters seemed to have a thing for trying to start innocuous sounding groups and societies.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well and as the link I posted said, their leader was rejected. Will some random Joe's that have slipped through, probably.Malmesbury said:
In any event membership of the Tory party goes through a filter of a list of known extremists provided by the police. All parties that I am aware of at least *used* to do this. Hell, when I was helping run a student union, there was help to avoid scumbags of all shapes, sizes and denominations turning up at demos etc.FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't you think if they really have 7000 members when they do their racist rallies they might just get more than a coach load of people?justin124 said:
I hope that is correct.FrancisUrquhart said:
Call total bullshit...justin124 said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.FrancisUrquhart said:
Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?justin124 said:
Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?
However, Britain First’s actual size is disputed, with extremism watchdog Hope Not Hate estimating it to have a membership of only around 1,000.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/?ito=cbshare0 -
What about reparations for the Barbary pirates? At one point the US government was paying 1/5th of the national budget in bribes to them (among others).Cyclefree said:
It is always curious how it is only certain bad stuff in our history that is picked on. So, for instance, those concerned about bigotry and making demands for reparations don’t pick the many years of anti-Catholic laws and prejudices which existed in this country and demand that reparations be paid for that. And, yet, by their own logic, the claim for such reparations is quite as good as that for slavery. Or what about reparations for English actions in Ireland and so on.Casino_Royale said:
That's not the debate here though, is it? And, if it was, by the same token, this lady would surely be arguing to pay reparations to China for - err - having the audacity to swipe Hong Kong and handing it back as the one of the wealthiest parts of the world (and free-est part of China) on our departure.stodge said:
Perhaps but even that left-winger Michael Portillo has conceded Britain's involvement in the Opium Wars wasn't one of our most honourable actions.Casino_Royale said:
What a stream of shite.
She can piss off, quite frankly.
We can find all sorts of events in our history that don't measure up to today's standards. Some were isolated events. Others were not. In many areas there is a positive legacy. In other areas the legacy is decidedly mixed. We can find many more examples in other nations in their past, many (indeed most) far worse and more barbaric.
This schoolboy debating style of reaching back into history three hundred years to contrive some causal link to the challenges of today is as simplistic as it is nonsensical. Quite aside from being inaccurate it stirs up and reinforces a crude racial divide.
It's notable that such arguments are always made in generalities: heavy on rhetoric and light on evidence. In this instance she's just lifted some bog standard shibboleths of the marxist Left, added precisely no new thinking of her own (or any thinking at all) and has simply repeated them here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.
To be clear, I don’t support such nonsense. History is what it is. No-one now is responsible for what happened decades or centuries ago. Far better to be taught the history properly and focus on countering evils happening now.
But the selective, self-serving and ignorant understanding of history really annoys me.
Doing the usual ignore-proper-comparisons that seem to be the style in such circumstances - they should be getting several Trillion dollars back....0 -
Welsh ‘Not’ anyone?kle4 said:
Indeed so. It's messy, and people need to know it's messy. They also need to be more cautious about mythologising things, negatively and positively. We do enough of that with recent history, let alone older stuff.stodge said:
Nonetheless, an honest assessment of what we did is a part of the teaching of history and there's a lot of good in there as well. I agree it shouldn't be used as a political football by the Left but nor should it be by the Right dressed up as a uniformly positive experience.Casino_Royale said:
That's not the debate here though, is it? And, if it was, by the same token, this lady would surely be arguing to pay reparations to China for - err - having the audacity to swipe Hong Kong and handing it back as the one of the wealthiest parts of the world (and free-est part of China) on our departure.
We can find all sorts of events in our history that don't measure up to today's standards. Some were isolated events. Others were not. In many areas there is a positive legacy. In other areas the legacy is decidedly mixed. We can find many more examples in other nations in their past, many (indeed most) far worse and more barbaric.
It's notable that such arguments are always made in generalities: heavy on rhetoric and light on evidence. In this instance she's just lifted some bog standard shibboleths of the marxist Left, added precisely no new thinking of her own (or any thinking at all) and has simply repeated them here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.
Similarly with the Gaelic.0 -
I remember listening to an interview with an academic last year, who studies this and said despite the media equivalence of far right / Islamist extremism, in the UK we are talking in the range of 10s of individuals on the radar of authorities as potential violent far right extremists and 100s who are consistently highly active in these extremist online groups that morph from one name to another.Malmesbury said:
The police have very good lists of all types of extremist. We had excellent help from them in my Uni days - various nutters seemed to have a thing for trying to start innocuous sounding groups and societies.0 -
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes0 -
Good move by Boris as was joining with David Attenborough to announce the end of diesel, petrol and hybrid cars by 2035Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
Eat your heart out Claire Perry2 -
That's a fair post.stodge said:
I was trying to broaden the debate away from the routine anti-left baiting on the issue.Casino_Royale said:
That's not the debate here though, is it? And, if it was, by the same token, this lady would surely be arguing to pay reparations to China for - err - having the audacity to swipe Hong Kong and handing it back as the one of the wealthiest parts of the world (and free-est part of China) on our departure.
We can find all sorts of events in our history that don't measure up to today's standards. Some were isolated events. Others were not. In many areas there is a positive legacy. In other areas the legacy is decidedly mixed. We can find many more examples in other nations in their past, many (indeed most) far worse and more barbaric.
It's notable that such arguments are always made in generalities: heavy on rhetoric and light on evidence. In this instance she's just lifted some bog standard shibboleths of the marxist Left, added precisely no new thinking of her own (or any thinking at all) and has simply repeated them here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.
The circumstances under which the Opium Wars started don't show Britain to best advantage but as you and others have said and I cheerfully concede, there's no point judging the actions of the 1840s by the standards and mores of the 2020s.
Equally, I gladly concede every Imperial power is guilty of being as bad if not worse (and I would include American treatment of its native peoples).
Nonetheless, an honest assessment of what we did is a part of the teaching of history and there's a lot of good in there as well. I agree it shouldn't be used as a political football by the Left but nor should it be by the Right dressed up as a uniformly positive experience.1 -
Longer term effects should be interesting. The Russia/Ukraine war killed dead alot of near-shoring of IT work to Russia. I was involved in a project where (against my advice, on security grounds), the development was in Russia and the QA was in the Ukraine!Anabobazina said:
We’ve got a shitload of deals now stacking up out there. All trips cancelled. All our clients are working from home permanently which means they haven’t set eyes on each other for more than a fortnight, never mind their suppliers.Philip_Thompson said:
It will definitely hit the world economy, but based on the proper definition of recession (two consecutive quarters) I really hope that's unlikely. We'll probably see a drop for one quarter due to this but if anything a boost the following quarter after China reopens as businesses try and catch up on backlogs.Andy_JS said:What are the chances of the China situation causing a world recession?
That's not to say there won't be a serious impact.
The QAs announced that the code would never, ever pass the tests.
Perhaps diversification of supply chains might be looked at?0 -
Well we still have the Commonwealth even if no longer the EmpireSunil_Prasannan said:
Empire is fundamentally undemocratic. Better for it to have been a Federal entity, what I like to call a "Commonwealth Union".HYUFD said:
53% of British voters were proud of the British Empire to only 19% ashamed in a 2014 Yougov poll. 49% thought it made the colonies better off to only 15% worse off.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:
34% of voters still wanted Britain to have an Empire, with 45% not wanting the Empire to still exist today.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/07/26/britain-proud-its-empire0 -
OKC
The old cliche about FF and FG is that their politics are indistinguishable, and voters chose them based only on which side their grandas fought in the Irish Civil War.2 -
Order of the British Empire?kle4 said:
I don't recall celebrating the brutality of the past in any way, nor endorsing any brutality that might exist in the present. But if the past is to be debated, good and bad, and however flawed as no one is an expert on all of history, then it requires more than the written equivalent of soundbites. Individual events can be simply judged, in or out of context. A period, institution or state cannot, but that's what most politicians want when they start this sort of thing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
So stop celebrating it then!kle4 said:
There were no non-brutish empires.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:0 -
Is there something wrong with modern society when twice as many people are currently watching a bloke play racing simulators from his shed as are watching RLB interview Novara media on the YouTube?0
-
The problem with Islamic extremism as opposed to the far-right stuff is fashionability. It is much easier to see the real, dangerous nazi types, since the crowd they run in is much smaller. The problem is that wearing an ISIS supporting tshirt, or making comments in a chat room etc is seen as a bit of rebellion by a number of young people. If you locked all of them up we would have a prison population like the US. Bigger haystack etc...FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember listening to an interview with an academic last year, who studies this and said despite the media equivalence of far right / Islamist extremism, in the UK we are talking in the range of 10s of individuals on the radar of authorities as potential violent far right extremists and 100s who are consistently highly active in these extremist online groups that morph from one name to another.Malmesbury said:
The police have very good lists of all types of extremist. We had excellent help from them in my Uni days - various nutters seemed to have a thing for trying to start innocuous sounding groups and societies.0 -
Yes - they should all be watching a man building a scale model steam engine in his shed.FrancisUrquhart said:Is there something wrong with modern society when twice as many people are currently watching a bloke play racing simulators from his shed as are watching RLB interview Novara media on the YouTube?
1 -
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes0 -
That’s what I thought. Sad, isn’t it! Must be getting past the great-Grandas now, too. I’ve got grandchildren who have the vote.Anabobazina said:OKC
The old cliche about FF and FG is that their politics are indistinguishable, and voters chose them based only on which side their grandas fought in the Irish Civil War.0 -
When you say, ‘If people are interesting,’ is it a plea for them to go on Novara instead of the third rate retards Sarkar, Peters and Wrong Daily who are usually on it?FrancisUrquhart said:If people are interesting RLB is doing a long form interview with Novara Media this evening.
1 -
Brexit Day +3
I'm sure you’ve all noticed the almighty apocalypse by now? The grounded planes, the chaos in the streets, the unpaid workers, the crippling strikes, the violence, a society in total collapse when stripped of wiser guidance, the faltering economy, the upper class buffoon in charge, the petrol bombs, the riot police, the snipers on rooftops, the tanks on the streets?
But enough about France.......
[Shamelessly stolen from Facebook]2 -
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Purple monkey dishwasher. I can do non-sequiters too.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Order of the British Empire?kle4 said:
I don't recall celebrating the brutality of the past in any way, nor endorsing any brutality that might exist in the present. But if the past is to be debated, good and bad, and however flawed as no one is an expert on all of history, then it requires more than the written equivalent of soundbites. Individual events can be simply judged, in or out of context. A period, institution or state cannot, but that's what most politicians want when they start this sort of thing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
So stop celebrating it then!kle4 said:
There were no non-brutish empires.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:
I don't care if the order is renamed, my only comment on the proposal was that it was gimmicky to raise in a leadership contest. And whether it is or not has nothing to do with my celebration or not.0 -
By "celebrate", I didn't mean you personally, I meant officially!kle4 said:
Purple monkey dishwasher. I can do non-sequiters too.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Order of the British Empire?kle4 said:
I don't recall celebrating the brutality of the past in any way, nor endorsing any brutality that might exist in the present. But if the past is to be debated, good and bad, and however flawed as no one is an expert on all of history, then it requires more than the written equivalent of soundbites. Individual events can be simply judged, in or out of context. A period, institution or state cannot, but that's what most politicians want when they start this sort of thing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
So stop celebrating it then!kle4 said:
There were no non-brutish empires.Sunil_Prasannan said:
British Empire or Brutish Empire?HYUFD said:
I don't care if the order is renamed, my only comment on the proposal was that it was gimmicky to raise in a leadership contest. And whether it is or not has nothing to do with my celebration or not.0 -
So far tonight RLB leads Starmer by 5 CLPs to 3 with 1 each for Nandy and Thornberry.0
-
Bloomberg would do much better in the general than he'll do in the primaries. In the latter, being the poster child for income inequality as mayor of New York will doom him, if nothing else. As Cory Booker and Kamala Harris have shown, these days it's hard to reinvent your political persona on the fly.Malmesbury said:
In addition to the Democrat base, he would actively repel the New Left (Sanders supporters etc).MaxPB said:
Might struggle to motivate the Democrat base and black voters. Unionised workers may resent his republican past.rcs1000 said:
Why wouldn't Bloomberg have a good chance? I would have a thought that moderate Republians find it much easier to stay at home if it was Bloomberg vs Trump than if it was Sanders vs Trump.Mysticrose said:
Not a snowball's chance in hell of beating Trumplogical_song said:
Currently he looks like he could beat Trump.Casino_Royale said:Bloomberg isn’t far off moving into second favourite position.
I’m struggling to see the justification for that, other than he’s not tarnished by Iowa.
But in the general, he'd have the appeal of an independent while running on a major party ticket.0 -
FF is also historically the party closest to the Catholic church, for example opposing the divorce amendment FG introduced in the 1980s and also its TDs were more opposed to abortion and gay marriage on the whole than FG TDs.Sunil_Prasannan said:
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes
It only joined the ALDE as FG had already joined the EPP, FG is the more socially liberal party, though FG is more fiscally conservative than FF is0 -
The Dildo Brothers really are sensitive to criticism, nearly as much as Boris Johnson.
A West Ham supporter who wore an anti-board T-shirt while volunteering as a pitchside flag-waver before last week’s game against Liverpool at the London Stadium has been banned by the club from attending any of their matches for the rest of the season.
Cameron Robson took the opportunity to protest against West Ham’s beleaguered board when he volunteered to wave a giant club flag before Liverpool’s 2-0 win. Robson, a season-ticket holder, unzipped his jacket to reveal a T-shirt with the message “GSB OUT” – a reference to the club’s co-owners, David Gold and David Sullivan, and the vice-chair, Karren Brady. He had passed through stadium security while wearing the top under his jacket.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/04/west-ham-ban-fan-for-wearing-anti-board-t-shirt-at-pitchside0 -
-
Only Day 3 and Boris has already played his Joker. If he can't break 50% in the polls with Sir David Attenborough, then the letters will be going in to Sir Graham.....Philip_Thompson said:Brexit Day +3
I'm sure you’ve all noticed the almighty apocalypse by now? The grounded planes, the chaos in the streets, the unpaid workers, the crippling strikes, the violence, a society in total collapse when stripped of wiser guidance, the faltering economy, the upper class buffoon in charge, the petrol bombs, the riot police, the snipers on rooftops, the tanks on the streets?
But enough about France.......
[Shamelessly stolen from Facebook]
Boris must think it is a sprint, not a Mini-marathon.....0 -
Am I reading this correct, he not only was involved in the Iowa shit show app, he was also involved in the Obamacare website that was also a disaster at launch? He has also misspelt healthcare.gov as HEATHcare.govTheScreamingEagles said:LOL
twitter.com/TylerDinucci/status/12247939421907804160 -
It's a joke.FrancisUrquhart said:
Am I reading this correct, he not only was involved in the Iowa shit show app, he was also involved in the Obamacare website that was also a disaster at launch?TheScreamingEagles said:LOL
twitter.com/TylerDinucci/status/12247939421907804160 -
And there was me going to give him a call about a developer job ;-)TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a joke.FrancisUrquhart said:
Am I reading this correct, he not only was involved in the Iowa shit show app, he was also involved in the Obamacare website that was also a disaster at launch?TheScreamingEagles said:LOL
twitter.com/TylerDinucci/status/1224793942190780416
I didn't initially twig with the reference to Fyre fest or Theranos for some reason. Time for more coffee.0 -
I hope next match that turns into a Spartacus moment, as the whole stand strip to reveal GSB OUT T-shirts. That would be classy.TheScreamingEagles said:The Dildo Brothers really are sensitive to criticism, nearly as much as Boris Johnson.
A West Ham supporter who wore an anti-board T-shirt while volunteering as a pitchside flag-waver before last week’s game against Liverpool at the London Stadium has been banned by the club from attending any of their matches for the rest of the season.
Cameron Robson took the opportunity to protest against West Ham’s beleaguered board when he volunteered to wave a giant club flag before Liverpool’s 2-0 win. Robson, a season-ticket holder, unzipped his jacket to reveal a T-shirt with the message “GSB OUT” – a reference to the club’s co-owners, David Gold and David Sullivan, and the vice-chair, Karren Brady. He had passed through stadium security while wearing the top under his jacket.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/04/west-ham-ban-fan-for-wearing-anti-board-t-shirt-at-pitchside0 -
It was the Anthony Weiner one that broke me.FrancisUrquhart said:
And there was me going to give him a call about a developer job ;-)TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a joke.FrancisUrquhart said:
Am I reading this correct, he not only was involved in the Iowa shit show app, he was also involved in the Obamacare website that was also a disaster at launch?TheScreamingEagles said:LOL
twitter.com/TylerDinucci/status/1224793942190780416
I didn't initially twig with the reference to Fyre fest or Theranos for some reason. Time for more coffee.0 -
Wiener not a giveaway too?FrancisUrquhart said:
Am I reading this correct, he not only was involved in the Iowa shit show app, he was also involved in the Obamacare website that was also a disaster at launch? He has also misspelt healthcare.gov as HEATHcare.govTheScreamingEagles said:LOL
twitter.com/TylerDinucci/status/12247939421907804160 -
The problem with tidal lagoons is thatMarqueeMark said:
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
1) They cost alot - building in the surf zone is er.... fun
2) You can have a lovely decade long planning enquiry. Lots and lots of lovely people employed in that
3) It's Big Infrastructure. So it would be unfair not to employ one of the firms that will get it done for only 300% of the original estimate.
By contrast Tesla Megapacks are below $300K per MWh and falling. Since they basically a shipping container, you might not even need planning permission to stack them next to your power plant....0 -
Unofficial Iowa Results with around 13% in:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VpPjgfoH-n7Ie8OmIa2eHoP88IvIkBR9wwkUL7bO1Y4/edit#gid=0
First vote
Sanders 27%
Warren 23%
Buttigieg 19%
Klobuchar 13%
Biden 11%
Second vote
Sanders 30%
Warren 26%
Buttigieg 22%
Klobuchar 13%
Biden 8%0 -
Obviously Boris has no intention of still being PM in 2035.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good move by Boris as was joining with David Attenborough to announce the end of diesel, petrol and hybrid cars by 2035Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
Eat your heart out Claire Perry0 -
Boris isn't a right-wing loon at all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good move by Boris as was joining with David Attenborough to announce the end of diesel, petrol and hybrid cars by 2035Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
Eat your heart out Claire Perry
At some point during the next 5 years the right will realise it. Probably soon and then frequently.0 -
The Liverpool Unders squad are playing really well. Some talent there for the future definitely.0
-
I have said this for a while. He is very much a liberal and his green agenda is supported by Carrie and GoveMysticrose said:
Boris isn't a right-wing loon at all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good move by Boris as was joining with David Attenborough to announce the end of diesel, petrol and hybrid cars by 2035Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
Eat your heart out Claire Perry
At some point during the next 5 years the right will realise it. Probably soon and then frequently.0 -
We left the European Parliament last week, Sunil. The LibDems have zero MEPs in any group.Sunil_Prasannan said:
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes0 -
As a commitment it is really doesn't come with much risk. Loads of other countries are saying the same, manufacturers have a long lead time and are going this way already and if it gets to 2030 and the infrastructure isn't there to support it, it is dead easy to kick it down the road until 2040 / fudge it slightly.No_Offence_Alan said:
Obviously Boris has no intention of still being PM in 2035.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good move by Boris as was joining with David Attenborough to announce the end of diesel, petrol and hybrid cars by 2035Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
Eat your heart out Claire Perry0 -
1. Power price is midway between wind and nuclear. Even building in the surf zone.Malmesbury said:
The problem with tidal lagoons is thatMarqueeMark said:
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
1) They cost alot - building in the surf zone is er.... fun
2) You can have a lovely decade long planning enquiry. Lots and lots of lovely people employed in that
3) It's Big Infrastructure. So it would be unfair not to employ one of the firms that will get it done for only 300% of the original estimate.
By contrast Tesla Megapacks are below $300K per MWh and falling. Since they basically a shipping container, you might not even need planning permission to stack them next to your power plant....
2. Planning is done for Swansea, largely done for Cardiff. They are but a fraction of the time for a nuclear plant. With good reason. It's mostly building a wall in the surf zone.
3. It is mostly building a wall in the surf zone. Hard to hide the 300% uplift there. (Oil and gas projects required us to build small towns on stilts in the North Sea to survive the 100 year wave. They had a 10% contingency. Exceed that - and you got the role as operator taken off you. This is private sector money we are talking.)
0 -
I think yesterday was the confirmation that Donald Trump is going to win a thumping re-election
https://twitter.com/mikandynothem/status/1224722621381537793?s=20
1 -
You had to say it.Philip_Thompson said:The Liverpool Unders squad are playing really well. Some talent there for the future definitely.
Edit - Hurrah for VAR.0 -
Why are Liverpool playing the U11s team? I know last time it was because all the first team squad were on a different continent, why aren't they just rotating?0
-
The FA and PL screwed up the winter break and Klopp's making a point/stand.FrancisUrquhart said:Why are Liverpool playing the U11s team? I know last time it was because all the first team squad were on a different continent, why aren't they just rotating?
0 -
On the plus side, they're built out at sea where there are very few back gardens, listed buildings and rare species of orchid. The structures seem quite simple, with relatively few pitfalls (compared with nuclear for example). So there's every chance they could come in on budget.Malmesbury said:
The problem with tidal lagoons is thatMarqueeMark said:
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
1) They cost alot - building in the surf zone is er.... fun
2) You can have a lovely decade long planning enquiry. Lots and lots of lovely people employed in that
3) It's Big Infrastructure. So it would be unfair not to employ one of the firms that will get it done for only 300% of the original estimate.
By contrast Tesla Megapacks are below $300K per MWh and falling. Since they basically a shipping container, you might not even need planning permission to stack them next to your power plant....
On the previous comment, I think Osborne is still contentious in a way that Cameron is not (perhaps unfairly). Gordon Brown or Alistair Darling might be ok alternatives.0 -
I imagine in 30 years time someone will discover a LibDem MEP still hiding in a Brussels broom cupboard.viewcode said:
We left the European Parliament last week, Sunil. The LibDems have zero MEPs in any group.Sunil_Prasannan said:
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes1 -
My take on this is that if you look at Israel or Singapore, they each took an area of poverty with no resources and achieved world leading status in 20 years. So you can blame colonialism for your plight for about two decades. After that you are responsible for your own situation.Malmesbury said:
What about reparations for the Barbary pirates? At one point the US government was paying 1/5th of the national budget in bribes to them (among others).Cyclefree said:
It is always curious how it is only certain bad stuff in our history that is picked on. So, for instance, those concerned about bigotry and making demands for reparations don’t pick the many years of anti-Catholic laws and prejudices which existed in this country and demand that reparations be paid for that. And, yet, by their own logic, the claim for such reparations is quite as good as that for slavery. Or what about reparations for English actions in Ireland and so on.Casino_Royale said:
hem here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.stodge said:
Perhaps but even that left-winger Michael Portillo has conceded Britain's involvement in the Opium Wars wasn't one of our most honourable actions.Casino_Royale said:
What a stream of shite.
She can piss off, quite frankly.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.
To be clear, I don’t support such nonsense. History is what it is. No-one now is responsible for what happened decades or centuries ago. Far better to be taught the history properly and focus on countering evils happening now.
But the selective, self-serving and ignorant understanding of history really annoys me.
Doing the usual ignore-proper-comparisons that seem to be the style in such circumstances - they should be getting several Trillion dollars back....0 -
I thought non-EU parties like Turkey were part of the European party groups?SandyRentool said:
I imagine in 30 years time someone will discover a LibDem MEP still hiding in a Brussels broom cupboard.viewcode said:
We left the European Parliament last week, Sunil. The LibDems have zero MEPs in any group.Sunil_Prasannan said:
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes1 -
Jeremy Corbyn could start in April......Luckyguy1983 said:
On the plus side, they're built out at sea where there are very few back gardens, listed buildings and rare species of orchid. The structures seem quite simple, with relatively few pitfalls (compared with nuclear for example). So there's every chance they could come in on budget.Malmesbury said:
The problem with tidal lagoons is thatMarqueeMark said:
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
1) They cost alot - building in the surf zone is er.... fun
2) You can have a lovely decade long planning enquiry. Lots and lots of lovely people employed in that
3) It's Big Infrastructure. So it would be unfair not to employ one of the firms that will get it done for only 300% of the original estimate.
By contrast Tesla Megapacks are below $300K per MWh and falling. Since they basically a shipping container, you might not even need planning permission to stack them next to your power plant....
On the previous comment, I think Osborne is still contentious in a way that Cameron is not (perhaps unfairly). Gordon Brown or Alistair Darling might be ok alternatives.0 -
I am properly excited about these lagoons. One must be built with an enormous saltwater jet. Like the Welsh Jet d'Eau. A new icon for Wales.MarqueeMark said:
1. Power price is midway between wind and nuclear. Even building in the surf zone.Malmesbury said:
The problem with tidal lagoons is thatMarqueeMark said:
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
1) They cost alot - building in the surf zone is er.... fun
2) You can have a lovely decade long planning enquiry. Lots and lots of lovely people employed in that
3) It's Big Infrastructure. So it would be unfair not to employ one of the firms that will get it done for only 300% of the original estimate.
By contrast Tesla Megapacks are below $300K per MWh and falling. Since they basically a shipping container, you might not even need planning permission to stack them next to your power plant....
2. Planning is done for Swansea, largely done for Cardiff. They are but a fraction of the time for a nuclear plant. With good reason. It's mostly building a wall in the surf zone.
3. It is mostly building a wall in the surf zone. Hard to hide the 300% uplift there. (Oil and gas projects required us to build small towns on stilts in the North Sea to survive the 100 year wave. They had a 10% contingency. Exceed that - and you got the role as operator taken off you. This is private sector money we are talking.)
https://ww2.sig-ge.ch/sites/default/files/2020-01/20200129_jet_eau_orange_915x545.jpg0 -
Don't you think those are rather atypical states? Mauritius would be a further example.Gabs3 said:
My take on this is that if you look at Israel or Singapore, they each took an area of poverty with no resources and achieved world leading status in 20 years. So you can blame colonialism for your plight for about two decades. After that you are responsible for your own situation.Malmesbury said:
What about reparations for the Barbary pirates? At one point the US government was paying 1/5th of the national budget in bribes to them (among others).Cyclefree said:
It is always curious how it is only certain bad stuff in our history that is picked on. So, for instance, those concerned about bigotry and making demands for reparations don’t pick the many years of anti-Catholic laws and prejudices which existed in this country and demand that reparations be paid for that. And, yet, by their own logic, the claim for such reparations is quite as good as that for slavery. Or what about reparations for English actions in Ireland and so on.Casino_Royale said:
hem here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.stodge said:
Perhaps but even that left-winger Michael Portillo has conceded Britain's involvement in the Opium Wars wasn't one of our most honourable actions.Casino_Royale said:
What a stream of shite.
She can piss off, quite frankly.
I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.
To be clear, I don’t support such nonsense. History is what it is. No-one now is responsible for what happened decades or centuries ago. Far better to be taught the history properly and focus on countering evils happening now.
But the selective, self-serving and ignorant understanding of history really annoys me.
Doing the usual ignore-proper-comparisons that seem to be the style in such circumstances - they should be getting several Trillion dollars back....
There are plenty of other states languishing in poverty, often with deep seated economic injustices from the colonial period.0 -
Starmer 9 RLB 4 so far tonight.0
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He could.MarqueeMark said:
Jeremy Corbyn could start in April......Luckyguy1983 said:
On the plus side, they're built out at sea where there are very few back gardens, listed buildings and rare species of orchid. The structures seem quite simple, with relatively few pitfalls (compared with nuclear for example). So there's every chance they could come in on budget.Malmesbury said:
The problem with tidal lagoons is thatMarqueeMark said:
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
1) They cost alot - building in the surf zone is er.... fun
2) You can have a lovely decade long planning enquiry. Lots and lots of lovely people employed in that
3) It's Big Infrastructure. So it would be unfair not to employ one of the firms that will get it done for only 300% of the original estimate.
By contrast Tesla Megapacks are below $300K per MWh and falling. Since they basically a shipping container, you might not even need planning permission to stack them next to your power plant....
On the previous comment, I think Osborne is still contentious in a way that Cameron is not (perhaps unfairly). Gordon Brown or Alistair Darling might be ok alternatives.
But old Scottish Labour is a good choice. 0 -
As much self awareness as Lily Allen.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
What a header! Couldn't get a better header if you tried LOL 😂0
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Tesla Mega-packs: rare earth metals required ???Malmesbury said:
The problem with tidal lagoons is thatMarqueeMark said:
If not Dave, then Osborne might take it. He was a big supporter of tidal lagoons and instigated the Hendry Review into them.Sunil_Prasannan said:
VOTE BLUE, GO GREEN!TheScreamingEagles said:
1) They cost alot - building in the surf zone is er.... fun
2) You can have a lovely decade long planning enquiry. Lots and lots of lovely people employed in that
3) It's Big Infrastructure. So it would be unfair not to employ one of the firms that will get it done for only 300% of the original estimate.
By contrast Tesla Megapacks are below $300K per MWh and falling. Since they basically a shipping container, you might not even need planning permission to stack them next to your power plant....
Tidal lagoons: rare earth metals required 00 -
The Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe is both a European Political Party under EU regulations, and a wider umbrella group for European Liberals. It was also the name of the Liberal group in the European Parliament until last year when that was renamed "Renew Europe". It's effectively an "international", like the global Liberal International. The LDs and APNI remain members of both the Liberal International and the ALDE. The ALDE has other member parties in the non-EU Balkans, Eastern Europe and Norden.Gabs3 said:
I thought non-EU parties like Turkey were part of the European party groups?SandyRentool said:
I imagine in 30 years time someone will discover a LibDem MEP still hiding in a Brussels broom cupboard.viewcode said:
We left the European Parliament last week, Sunil. The LibDems have zero MEPs in any group.Sunil_Prasannan said:
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes0 -
I meant the party, silly!viewcode said:
We left the European Parliament last week, Sunil. The LibDems have zero MEPs in any group.Sunil_Prasannan said:
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes
https://www.aldeparty.eu/members/member-parties
EDIT Note that countries like Ukraine, Kosovo and Armenia are repesented0 -
Who wants to bet the promised Iowa partial results at 10pm are delayed by at least 15 minutes?0
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I'm officially fearful for West Ham's EPL survival chances this seasonTheScreamingEagles said:The Dildo Brothers really are sensitive to criticism, nearly as much as Boris Johnson.
A West Ham supporter who wore an anti-board T-shirt while volunteering as a pitchside flag-waver before last week’s game against Liverpool at the London Stadium has been banned by the club from attending any of their matches for the rest of the season.
Cameron Robson took the opportunity to protest against West Ham’s beleaguered board when he volunteered to wave a giant club flag before Liverpool’s 2-0 win. Robson, a season-ticket holder, unzipped his jacket to reveal a T-shirt with the message “GSB OUT” – a reference to the club’s co-owners, David Gold and David Sullivan, and the vice-chair, Karren Brady. He had passed through stadium security while wearing the top under his jacket.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/04/west-ham-ban-fan-for-wearing-anti-board-t-shirt-at-pitchside
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...0
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ALDE is a pan European party, not restricted to the EU.Gabs3 said:
I thought non-EU parties like Turkey were part of the European party groups?SandyRentool said:
I imagine in 30 years time someone will discover a LibDem MEP still hiding in a Brussels broom cupboard.viewcode said:
We left the European Parliament last week, Sunil. The LibDems have zero MEPs in any group.Sunil_Prasannan said:
FG are the nearest thing to the Tories in the Republic. They are members of the European People's Party in Brussels. FF are actually in the same grouping as our LibDems and Alliance, the ALDE.HYUFD said:
FG is slightly more fiscally conservative than FF but FF is slightly more socially conservative than FG but otherwise little difference between them policy wise.OldKingCole said:
TBH I’m not sure I can see much difference between FG and FF. Both seem centre-right to me. I suspect that’s another reason SF are doing well.MaxPB said:
That's a really short term fix, it leads to a shite coalition that no one wants which will be extremely unpopular and push more votes to SF. It's literally what's happening in Germany with both the CDU and SPD getting hollowed out for the Greens, AfD and Linke.HYUFD said:
So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI haveTheGreenMachine said:
In the North it was Arlene et al refusing to co-operate that caused the log-jam.
SF is the main left of centre party in the Republic of Ireland now yes
https://www.aldeparty.eu/0
This discussion has been closed.