politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We may not have the Iowa results yet but punters think Biden w

FrancisUrquhart said:

ydoethur said:

27 balls. 18 runs. Seven wickets in hand.

Even South Africa surely can’t choke from here.

If it was the DNC however....

It’s not a piss up in a brewery, they might be OK.

Bugger.

Well, to be honest, trying to jinx them seemed a long shot, but...

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

Do you think?

ydoethur said:

27 balls. 18 runs. Seven wickets in hand.

Even South Africa surely can’t choke from here.

They didn’t. We lost the first Test, though and look where it ended up.
Shame about Bavuma missing his ton.

FrancisUrquhart said:

ydoethur said:

27 balls. 18 runs. Seven wickets in hand.

Even South Africa surely can’t choke from here.

If it was the DNC however....

But you'd have to tell them to run, DNC. It's Tricky. Because It's Like That.

(I'm one consonant away from the perfect joke here. Goshdarnit. )

SNP causing trouble in the Commons I see.

stodge said:

alex_ said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

The same thing could happen in an FPTP election if the Greens for example suddenly went from 10% to 35% in the course of a campaign they might not have candidates in all seats.

The Greens could be (opinion) polling 35% and fail to capitalise due to lack of candidates. They couldn’t actually secure 35% of the actual votes and fail to capitalise for that reason though. (as opposed to other features of FPTP)

stodge said:

alex_ said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

The same thing could happen in an FPTP election if the Greens for example suddenly went from 10% to 35% in the course of a campaign they might not have candidates in all seats.

The poll is astonishing and unless an FF-FG coalition is formed to keep out SF, it's going to be hard to see what kind of Government will be formed.

I'm pretty sure there won't be an FF-FG coalition. I think more likely is a minority FF or FF-Green coalition (possibly with a few Independents mixed in, and/or Labour if they have enough seats to be useful). FG might have to give tacit support or Confidence & Supply in the mirror image of the previous government.

Of course this latest poll is only one poll, and it might not prove correct. Still, there's no doubt that SF are going to do very well.

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

However Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full term anyway

alex_ said:

stodge said:

alex_ said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

The same thing could happen in an FPTP election if the Greens for example suddenly went from 10% to 35% in the course of a campaign they might not have candidates in all seats.

The Greens could be (opinion) polling 35% and fail to capitalise due to lack of candidates. They couldn’t actually secure 35% of the actual votes and fail to capitalise for that reason though. (as opposed to other features of FPTP)

The Shimmers have got 42 candidates for a 160 (ok, 159) seat Dail. It would be difficult for them to form a non-coalition government with only 42/160 = 26% of the seats. Are there any parties in Ireland willing to give them confidence and supply (or the Irish equivalent) or coalition with them? My knowledge of Irish politics is sadly lacking.

viewcode said:

alex_ said:

stodge said:

alex_ said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

The same thing could happen in an FPTP election if the Greens for example suddenly went from 10% to 35% in the course of a campaign they might not have candidates in all seats.

The Greens could be (opinion) polling 35% and fail to capitalise due to lack of candidates. They couldn’t actually secure 35% of the actual votes and fail to capitalise for that reason though. (as opposed to other features of FPTP)

The Shimmers have got 42 candidates for a 160 (ok, 159) seat Dail. It would be difficult for them to form a non-coalition government with only 42/160 = 26% of the seats. Are there any parties in Ireland willing to give them confidence and supply (or the Irish equivalent) or coalition with them? My knowledge of Irish politics is sadly lacking.

Minor far-left parties and various extreme left independents would work with SF, but that's not enough.

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers.

However Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full term anyway

Did you miss the bit where not a single member of the Northern Irish Assembly spoke for the Brexit deal? The deal is not exactly overflowing with supporters there.

alex_ said:

TheGreenMachine said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

Same thing happened in the Scottish local elections in 2017. The Tories under nominated because they hadn't foreseen a GE being called and the May surge.

HYUFD said:

TheGreenMachine said:

So what both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail leaders have said they will refuse to go into Government with Sinn Fein, unlike ironically the DUP in NI have

The DUP don't have a choice if they want a functioning government because of the set up of the system. FG and FF do, wise or not.

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

There's these things called "commas". Dead handy they are. Just saying.

Leaving them out is a comma grammatical error....

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

There's these things called "commas". Dead handy they are. Just saying.

Who needs a mere grammar Nazi when HYUFD wants to send in the troops to quash independence bids?

Gallowgate said:

SNP causing trouble in the Commons I see.

Turned up for work?

Richard_Nabavi said:

viewcode said:

alex_ said:

stodge said:

alex_ said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

The same thing could happen in an FPTP election if the Greens for example suddenly went from 10% to 35% in the course of a campaign they might not have candidates in all seats.

The Greens could be (opinion) polling 35% and fail to capitalise due to lack of candidates. They couldn’t actually secure 35% of the actual votes and fail to capitalise for that reason though. (as opposed to other features of FPTP)

The Shimmers have got 42 candidates for a 160 (ok, 159) seat Dail. It would be difficult for them to form a non-coalition government with only 42/160 = 26% of the seats. Are there any parties in Ireland willing to give them confidence and supply (or the Irish equivalent) or coalition with them? My knowledge of Irish politics is sadly lacking.

Minor far-left parties and various extreme left independents would work with SF, but that's not enough.

Serious request: I'd be very interested to hear a proponent of PR explain why this sort of behaviour is desirable (or at least why it isn't considered a large enough drawback of PR to matter). At the very least it alters voting behaviours at the margins, since there's limited point voting for a party that can't possibly be in the next government unless it gets an incredibly unlikely outright majority, so you may as well vote for one that could be in a coalition.

It's always seemed to me that in the rush to try and make sure that Parliament is representative, proponents of political reform forget/ignore/discount the fact that for the most part, elections are fought on an all-or-nothing basis. If you're in government, you have some chance of getting some part of your manifesto enacted. If you're out, you have no chance. Most people don't derive any value from their views are being represented from the opposition benches.

Richard_Nabavi said:

viewcode said:

alex_ said:

stodge said:

alex_ said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

The same thing could happen in an FPTP election if the Greens for example suddenly went from 10% to 35% in the course of a campaign they might not have candidates in all seats.

The Greens could be (opinion) polling 35% and fail to capitalise due to lack of candidates. They couldn’t actually secure 35% of the actual votes and fail to capitalise for that reason though. (as opposed to other features of FPTP)

The Shimmers have got 42 candidates for a 160 (ok, 159) seat Dail. It would be difficult for them to form a non-coalition government with only 42/160 = 26% of the seats. Are there any parties in Ireland willing to give them confidence and supply (or the Irish equivalent) or coalition with them? My knowledge of Irish politics is sadly lacking.

Minor far-left parties and various extreme left independents would work with SF, but that's not enough.

Varadkar formed a government with 50 FG and 7 independents, although FF abstained. Will FF+FG field sufficient votes against a 42+X Sinn Fein Taoiseach nomination?

Beibheirli_C said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

We can only hope

If you all are going to go, can you do us a favour and take the Welsh with you though?

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers.

However Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full term anyway

Did you miss the bit where not a single member of the Northern Irish Assembly spoke for the Brexit deal? The deal is not exactly overflowing with supporters there.

The DUP and UUP would prefer a hard border with the Republic of Ireland of course (requiring us to send in the troops to enforce it) but will back staying in the UK regardless anyway, however soft Nat SDLP voters and middle ground Alliance voters are far less resentful at the Withdrawal Agreement terms than they would have been over a hard border with the Republic of Ireland so my point stands absolutely

HYUFD said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

There's these things called "commas". Dead handy they are. Just saying.

You obviously missed the comma 2 words in then

Alternatively called the comma 79 words before the decimal point.

Beibheirli_C said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Beibheirli_C said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

We can only hope

If you all are going to go, can you do us a favour and take the Welsh with you though?

Who?

NI/Scotland/whomever will take them/it was a joke.

Philip_Thompson said:

Beibheirli_C said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

We can only hope

If you all are going to go, can you do us a favour and take the Welsh with you though?

Or better still, can you take the English with you so the Welsh can have England back? *innocent face*

viewcode said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

viewcode said:

alex_ said:

stodge said:

alex_ said:

Didn’t someone say the other day that they haven’t put nearly enough candidates on the ballot to capitalise? So we could end up with a “proportional” system that fails to replicate votes proportionally in seats?

The same thing could happen in an FPTP election if the Greens for example suddenly went from 10% to 35% in the course of a campaign they might not have candidates in all seats.

The Greens could be (opinion) polling 35% and fail to capitalise due to lack of candidates. They couldn’t actually secure 35% of the actual votes and fail to capitalise for that reason though. (as opposed to other features of FPTP)

The Shimmers have got 42 candidates for a 160 (ok, 159) seat Dail. It would be difficult for them to form a non-coalition government with only 42/160 = 26% of the seats. Are there any parties in Ireland willing to give them confidence and supply (or the Irish equivalent) or coalition with them? My knowledge of Irish politics is sadly lacking.

Minor far-left parties and various extreme left independents would work with SF, but that's not enough.

Varadkar formed a government with 50 FG and 7 independents, although FF abstained. Will FF+FG field sufficient votes against a 42+X Sinn Fein Taoiseach nomination?

If they have lost collectively about 8 out of 49 percentage points, they should still hold almost half the seats, after accounting for the lower popularity of Sinn Féin as a second preference. It is very hard to see how SF forms a government without the connivance of one of the two big parties. There are just too many mini-party mouths to feed.

Andy_JS said:

What are the chances of the China situation causing a world recession?

Quite high, surely, bearing in mind that the economic effect we are already seeing in China could even by itself have a significant impact yet is only going to be the tip of the iceberg assuming this develops into a more widespread pandemic.

Are there any elections due in 2020 where sitting candidates had been expecting to use economic growth as a fig leaf to try to cover up all their other failings?

Philip_Thompson said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

There's these things called "commas". Dead handy they are. Just saying.

Who needs a mere grammar Nazi when HYUFD wants to send in the troops to quash independence bids?

Darth Grammar. I shall pedant the Republic to death.

(Incidentally, the first Star Wars crawl has an ellipsis with four dots, whilst it should be three)

HYUFD said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

There's these things called "commas". Dead handy they are. Just saying.

You obviously missed the comma 2 words in then

It was the long stream of unpunctuated words that followed it that inspired the post.

Wulfrun_Phil said:

Andy_JS said:

What are the chances of the China situation causing a world recession?

Quite high, surely, bearing in mind that the economic effect we are already seeing in China could even by itself have a significant impact yet is only going to be the tip of the iceberg assuming this develops into a more widespread pandemic.

Are there any elections due in 2020 where sitting candidates had been expecting to use economic growth as a fig leaf to try to cover up all their other failings?

It's already hitting Hyundai production in Korea.

https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1224758731998728192?s=20

https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1223002686901116928?s=20

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1223002686901116928?s=20

Well I'm sure this debate which never gets anywhere will be as pleasant as ever.

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1224753850864865280?s=20

No option for 'directly into someone elses' bowl of porridge'? Asking for a friend.

kle4 said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1224753850864865280?s=20

No option for 'directly into someone elses' bowl of porridge'? Asking for a friend.

Given an option, I prefer sugar to mucus.

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

There's these things called "commas". Dead handy they are. Just saying.

Works of the devil never trust them that's what I always say that is a fact.

Highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector

How is that ambiguity comparable to:

"Peace, prosperity and friendship with all nations"?

Why is a second comma necessary to "de-ambiguise" (if that's a word!) the Brexit coin?

ydoethur said:

Wulfrun_Phil said:

ydoethur said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Beibheirli_C said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

We can only hope

If you all are going to go, can you do us a favour and take the Welsh with you though?

Or better still, can you take the English with you so the Welsh can have England back? *innocent face*

In Wolverhampton, we regard Shrewsbury as part of Wales. At least, I recall happy memories of singing "You're Welsh and you know you are" at the Amwythig Town fans who ventured down the M54 to Wolves in last season's FA Cup.

One of my history teachers was from Shrewsbury. She was Welsh speaking.

But shouldn’t that be Cefnogwyr Clwb Pêl-Droed Dref Amwythig? Or are we going for Wenglish?

For me it's definitely Wenglish vocabulary as on road signs only. Amwythig. Araf. Ysgol. Pant cudd. That sort of thing.

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1223002686901116928?s=20

Britain treated Ireland as bad as anyone so I am not sure what skin colour has to do with it.

Andy_JS said:

What are the chances of the China situation causing a world recession?

If there is it will be as much down to the Chinese response to the virus as the virus itself.

Put simply: the rest of the world don't trust the Chinese statistics nor their handling of the situation, which is largely about Face not truth. That's why they're starting to close off flights and pull out their nationals.

Gabs3 said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1223002686901116928?s=20

Britain treated Ireland as bad as anyone so I am not sure what skin colour has to do with it.

"No blacks, no Irish"?

Wulfrun_Phil said:

ydoethur said:

Wulfrun_Phil said:

ydoethur said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Beibheirli_C said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

We can only hope

If you all are going to go, can you do us a favour and take the Welsh with you though?

Or better still, can you take the English with you so the Welsh can have England back? *innocent face*

In Wolverhampton, we regard Shrewsbury as part of Wales. At least, I recall happy memories of singing "You're Welsh and you know you are" at the Amwythig Town fans who ventured down the M54 to Wolves in last season's FA Cup.

One of my history teachers was from Shrewsbury. She was Welsh speaking.

But shouldn’t that be Cefnogwyr Clwb Pêl-Droed Dref Amwythig? Or are we going for Wenglish?

For me it's definitely Wenglish vocabulary as on road signs only. Amwythig. Araf. Ysgol. Pant cudd. That sort of thing.

Manceinon Piccadilly

stodge said:

Casino_Royale said:

What a stream of shite.

She can piss off, quite frankly.

Perhaps but even that left-winger Michael Portillo has conceded Britain's involvement in the Opium Wars wasn't one of our most honourable actions.

Many of our past actions were not. You cannot make up for past sins (not the really big ones anyway) so it is a more complex question of whether our present actions are now appropriate and how much the future is served by self recrimination on past actions, and to what extent that should reasonably take place.

But let's not kid ourselves, no one is really interested in having a deep debate on the subject. We want to avoid it, or make it an overly simplistic morality tale, and its probably tied into some culture war schtick to boot on either side. The exact same arguments will be being made in 100 years.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1223002686901116928?s=20

British Empire or Brutish Empire?

There were no non-brutish empires.

Malmesbury said:

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers.

However Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full term anyway

Did you miss the bit where not a single member of the Northern Irish Assembly spoke for the Brexit deal? The deal is not exactly overflowing with supporters there.

The DUP and UUP would prefer a hard border with the Republic of Ireland of course (requiring us to send in the troops to enforce it) but will back staying in the UK regardless anyway, however soft Nat SDLP voters and middle ground Alliance voters are far less resentful at the Withdrawal Agreement terms than they would have been over a hard border with the Republic of Ireland so my point stands absolutely

Nope - DUP and UUP both want the soft border. In any event, the border will be soft. Enforced by whom?

On a forced choice they don't, the DUP prefer a hard border with the Republic of Ireland to a hard border with GB, hence they had no problem with No Deal.

If we had a hard border with the Republic of Ireland we would have to have sent the troops in to enforce it unlike the soft border we now have

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Ireland (N) will go before Scotland.

It won't, first as the DUP are the largest party in Northern Ireland with Unionist Arlene Foster First Minister while the SNP are the largest party in Scotland with Nationalist Nicola Sturgeon First Minister and secondly as Remain voting NI is now little affected by Brexit as it is staying in a soft Brexit in a CU and most of the SM so has less resentment from Remainers than Remain voting Scotland does getting the same hard Brexit as Leave voting England and Wales.

However Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full term anyway

Only by one seat.

stodge said:

Casino_Royale said:

What a stream of shite.

She can piss off, quite frankly.

Perhaps but even that left-winger Michael Portillo has conceded Britain's involvement in the Opium Wars wasn't one of our most honourable actions.

That's not the debate here though, is it? And, if it was, by the same token, this lady would surely be arguing to pay reparations to China for - err - having the audacity to swipe Hong Kong and handing it back as the one of the wealthiest parts of the world (and free-est part of China) on our departure.

We can find all sorts of events in our history that don't measure up to today's standards. Some were isolated events. Others were not. In many areas there is a positive legacy. In other areas the legacy is decidedly mixed. We can find many more examples in other nations in their past, many (indeed most) far worse and more barbaric.

This schoolboy debating style of reaching back into history three hundred years to contrive some causal link to the challenges of today is as simplistic as it is nonsensical. Quite aside from being inaccurate it stirs up and reinforces a crude racial divide.

It's notable that such arguments are always made in generalities: heavy on rhetoric and light on evidence. In this instance she's just lifted some bog standard shibboleths of the marxist Left, added precisely no new thinking of her own (or any thinking at all) and has simply repeated them here in a hope to score some easy points and make a name for herself.

I find the motive selfish and the behaviour reprehensible.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BellRibeiroAddy/status/1223002686901116928?s=20

British Empire or Brutish Empire?

53% of British voters were proud of the British Empire to only 19% ashamed in a 2014 Yougov poll. 49% thought it made the colonies better off to only 15% worse off.

34% of voters still wanted Britain to have an Empire, with 45% not wanting the Empire to still exist today.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2014/07/26/britain-proud-its-empire

justin124 said:

Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?

Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?

MaxPB said:

Cyclefree said:

Is the Tory hierarchy going to do anything about their MP, Daniel Kawcyznski, and his speaking at and attendance at a conference of far-right anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim politicians, such as Marion Marechal from Le Pen’s party?

Or is bigotry and anti-semitism only to be condemned when it is Labour doing it?

Depends on what he says, no? What if it's a robust defence of European Jews, speaking truth to power?

Except that isn’t what he was doing. According to reports he said that these politicians “ represent serious ideas and concerns, some of which are shared by many citizens of the UK". Other political parties represented at this conference include the Brothers of Italy party and Vox.

That is why Jewish and a Muslim groups have expressed serious concerns. It looks as if the Tories - and apparently Tory whips were told in advance - are fine to have one of their MPs be associated with far right groups who have a long and ignoble record of bigotry and prejudice against minority groups . The Tory party may have an explanation we are all missing but has chosen to be silent. So far.

The same standards that were applied to Corbyn should apply to Tory MPs too.

That is if the Tories are serious about being against bigotry and prejudice rather than simply using it as a convenient way to attack Labour.

A few years ago I introduced a unit on China and the Opium Wars In Year 9 as part of making history more interesting (instead of the crock of white* Gove and Cummings put together).

Today, a year 12 student who was one of the first to be taught it said he wanted to do it for A-level coursework because he’d found the lessons so interesting.

I think the words are ‘quiet satisfaction.’

*That was meant to be ‘crock of shite,’ but the autocorrect works too.

justin124 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?

Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?

FrancisUrquhart said:

justin124 said:

Indeed. Has anything been done about the 6000 Britain First members who claim to have joined the Tories since the election?

Do Britain First even have 6000 memebers?

Apparently 6000 out of 7500 of its members joined the Tories post-election. If true, the Tories certainly now have a Neo-Nazi wing.

Hope Not Hate said Britain First have fewer than 1,000 members, and it was likely a publicity stunt.