politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Swinson’s successor may have only become an MP yesterday

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

It's not unpleasant. Nor is it hatred.

It would have given Labour a taste of what the Tories felt in 1997 and 2001, or even 2005, when we were at a similar level, and the psychological blow would have been helpful and cathartic.

You'd have had to draw the same comparisons rather than reference back to 1935 which no-one remembers.

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

Mysticrose said:

Gabs3 said:

Mysticrose said:

The chimera of Brexit will lead to a lot of disappointment.

The centre ground must be ready no later than 12 months from now to present an alternative agenda.

The new Labour leader should accept Brexit but commit to Rejoin ASAP.

How on earth can that work?

I agree with Heseltine. I think Labour need to be a Leave party and move on with how best to make it work.

They don't need to be a Leave party, but a we have left, so now what party.

MyBurningEars said:

ReggieCide said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

Any idea how much that might cost, what sort of toll could be charged?

Quite a lot of detail in this Wiki article. Costs in the region of £20 billion, if we apply the rule of "and you probably need to double the initial estimate when someone's trying to stoke up interest" then it's still not completely infeasible. Certainly the engineering is possible (will mean spending a lot of money cleaning up WW2 munitions!). May not make actual economic sense, but that's a different issue. The symbolism is important here.

Interestingly it's something that the DUP and Sturgeon are in agreement on! And I do wonder if Boris is tempted.

Bread and circuses?

Casino_Royale said:

It's a mistake to expect defeated Labour members and activists to come to terms with it immediately.

They need to work through the seven stages of grief first, which could take weeks or months. If they don't they will pick a leader that accords with whatever stage of grief they've reached at the time.

Interesting point - but if Corbyn hangs around longer, is that going to be "productive reflection time" or is it going to be "scheming, plotting and organising time"?

We were discussing rail earlier. Someone wondered what date you reckoned Crossrail might be up and running by. I wondered what the prospects were for the northern end of HS2 - if Boris is going to go Plus-Quam-George-Osborne with Northern Powerhouse Blue Wall infrastructure spending, is there any realistic way he can (a) build HS2 from north-to-south in parallel with south-to-north rather than the northern end not getting done for decades, and/or (b) build the HS3 Liverpool to Hull in parallel with HS2 rather than afterwards? (Believe this is far from shovel-ready but could work be started before the next election, perhaps?) I wondered what the practical limitations were eg do we simply not have the railway building capacity to take on so much work at once, are the plans insufficiently advanced etc? Wondered if you might be able to clue us up a bit.

OllyT said:

ReggieCide said:

OllyT said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedgefield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s

(You'll have to type the link in manually)

Sedgefield for instance.

Labour vote in 2017 was 22,202, 2019 was 15096. Seems conceivable some of those 3518 votes came from Labour (1763 voted UKIP in 2017 so that might be the other half).

But Labour lost 7106 votes, so 7107 - 3518 = 3589, which just about what the Tory vote went up by.

So I think it's fair to say that seat was lost due to a combination of Corbyn and Brexit. Both of these issues need resolving and fast. Phil Wilson said it was down to Corbyn on the doorstep.

It is going to take years. Momentum has to be neutralised and that is not on the horizon

You seem to be forgetting that governments tend to lose elections rather than oppositions winning them. Labour were only 2% behind the Tories 2 years ago even with Corbyn as leader. I am detecting a great deal of hubris behind some of the Tory posters since Thursday and we all know what usually follows.

It is entirely possible that Labour choose an electable leader and Brexit/Johnson don't deliver on their promises over the next five years. In those circumstances I could easily see Labour getting their vote up into the low 40s. Things could look very different indeed come the next GE.

I presume you've bet the house on that then. Good odds I presume.

I think it's well worth a shot. As I say Labour polled 40% under Corbyn 2 years ago. By the next GE the Tories will have been in power 14 years, Corbyn's replacement is unlikely to have the same baggage and many of the seats the Tories gained on Thursday could easily switch back if Brexit hasn't delivered the goods for them.

I didn't vote Labour by the way but disastrous as the result was for them they still polled over 10 million votes to the Tories 13m.

The electorate is fickle and volatile. You clearly can't see anything going right for Labour or anything going wrong for Johnson over the coming years. I can.

I don't bet on 5 year horizons and I have no clear idea of where we will be next week. I just thought you had expressed your vision so forcibly that perhaps you had a crystal ball and had put your money where your mouth is. Apologies if I misread you.

A random O/T thought. How much has the decline in the local press contributed to what we see today, with newspapers/media dominated by 'journalists' who spend most of their time spouting opinions which have very little grounding in real evidence or reality? And particularly has contributed to an almost total failure to understand and analyse the real thoughts of the electorate as a whole.

Where once the background of a huge of journalists was grounded in knowledge of local communities, something people took with them when they moved to the national press (or in many cases never moved) now journalists are almost all entering the media straight out of university and where ability to "make an argument" is recognised, but not to actually make an argument that fits the reality. And where they think nothing of saying one thing in November, and saying completely the opposite in December. Usually without any need to admit that this means that they may have been wrong.

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

Maybe you should read more than the headline. The only person 'deriding' anything was one engineer saying it was 'crazy' to cost something that hadn't yet been designed, and said 'costs always go up'. No shit Sherlock. Nothing whatever about unexploded ordinance. As I said, PR fluff.

It would literally be the longest bridge in the world, the costs would spiral and I suspect it would be deemed unfeasible. But thanks for your condescending tone.

"We've had enough of experts" indeed

Someone else has linked the wiki page for a far longer bridge....

Wouldn't surprise me if the Boris Bridge is far more technically challenging mind you, and I Am Not An Expert but could well be "largest bridge of type X" for quite a painfully wide range of values of "X".

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Mysticrose said:

I worry about us centrists. The LibDems played a good hand incredibly poorly from c. 6 months ago. We made so many mistakes.

Labour are about to go into a internecine war. I suspect, but can't be sure, that the centre ground will win.

However, I'm not at ALL sure that it's correct for the Blairite contingent to be blaming this all on Jeremy Corbyn. It could be argued that a significantly large reason for their defeat is that the party wasn't sufficiently Leave. By dithering around and embracing Remain they alienated the working class northern vote. And they're the ones who lost them the election.

When historians look back on this period they will see with crystal clear clarity that Jeremy Corbyn became and stayed leader just long enough to both cause and guarantee Brexit.

What I find really extraordinary is that on September 25th they would almost certainly have succeeded in a VONC with an installation of an alternative PM.
Instead they bickered. And lost.

With the benefit of hindsight, I wonder if Swinson regrets not giving in on her "never Corbyn" red line?

I would hope not. And good for her if so.

Mysticrose said:

Gabs3 said:

Mysticrose said:

The chimera of Brexit will lead to a lot of disappointment.

The centre ground must be ready no later than 12 months from now to present an alternative agenda.

The new Labour leader should accept Brexit but commit to Rejoin ASAP.

How on earth can that work?

I agree with Heseltine. I think Labour need to be a Leave party and move on with how best to make it work.

How can you be a progressive party if you don't care about international unity or the poor in other countries?

Gabs3 said:

Mysticrose said:

Gabs3 said:

Mysticrose said:

The chimera of Brexit will lead to a lot of disappointment.

The centre ground must be ready no later than 12 months from now to present an alternative agenda.

The new Labour leader should accept Brexit but commit to Rejoin ASAP.

How on earth can that work?

I agree with Heseltine. I think Labour need to be a Leave party and move on with how best to make it work.

How can you be a progressive party if you don't care about international unity or the poor in other countries?

So the way to win back the Northern working class is to tell them that some of their taxes are going to help the poor in other countries, rather than helping improve their lot back home?

Good luck.

Which cabinet members for the chop ?

Gabs3 said:

Mysticrose said:

Gabs3 said:

Mysticrose said:

The chimera of Brexit will lead to a lot of disappointment.

The centre ground must be ready no later than 12 months from now to present an alternative agenda.

The new Labour leader should accept Brexit but commit to Rejoin ASAP.

How on earth can that work?

I agree with Heseltine. I think Labour need to be a Leave party and move on with how best to make it work.

How can you be a progressive party if you don't care about international unity or the poor in other countries?

That I agree with but I do think that's it for Britain in the EU. We're about to come out and trying to campaign to rejoin would be a sad, sad, sight. We need to move on and make Brexit Britain work.

(The fact that I think we're going to end up impoverished doesn't mean we shouldn't all try and make it work)

alex_ said:

A random O/T thought. How much has the decline in the local press contributed to what we see today, with newspapers/media dominated by 'journalists' who spend most of their time spouting opinions which have very little grounding in real evidence or reality? And particularly has contributed to an almost total failure to understand and analyse the real thoughts of the electorate as a whole.

Where once the background of a huge of journalists was grounded in knowledge of local communities, something people took with them when they moved to the national press (or in many cases never moved) now journalists are almost all entering the media straight out of university and where ability to "make an argument" is recognised, but not to actually make an argument that fits the reality. And where they think nothing of saying one thing in November, and saying completely the opposite in December. Usually without any need to admit that this means that they may have been wrong.

The good thing is that local papers still exist in most of the country. In the United States they are apparently disappearing altogether from a lot of places, even towns with pretty large populations.

Casino_Royale said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Mysticrose said:

I worry about us centrists. The LibDems played a good hand incredibly poorly from c. 6 months ago. We made so many mistakes.

Labour are about to go into a internecine war. I suspect, but can't be sure, that the centre ground will win.

However, I'm not at ALL sure that it's correct for the Blairite contingent to be blaming this all on Jeremy Corbyn. It could be argued that a significantly large reason for their defeat is that the party wasn't sufficiently Leave. By dithering around and embracing Remain they alienated the working class northern vote. And they're the ones who lost them the election.

You're a centrist?

Could have fooled me.

Don't you mean you just wish the centre of public opinion is where you're at?

At some point your bitterness will hopefully evaporate and you will turn your energy to rebuilding this country and helping to bring people together. It's going to be needed because Brexit is going to be a (very) tough project to deliver successfully. That's where your focus should now be.

Yes I am. I just have a few ideas which might appear 'radical' like the public ownership of railways. Something which the majority of us agree with.

There's plenty about the Corbyn agenda that was bonkers.

No bitterness at all; you're reflecting your own feelings onto me.

Your posts on here are far from centrist, and at the same time are highly emotional: your responses dependent upon whether people agree with you or not.

You'd do well to reflect on that.

Mansplaining

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

Maybe you should read more than the headline. The only person 'deriding' anything was one engineer saying it was 'crazy' to cost something that hadn't yet been designed, and said 'costs always go up'. No shit Sherlock. Nothing whatever about unexploded ordinance. As I said, PR fluff.

It would literally be the longest bridge in the world, the costs would spiral and I suspect it would be deemed unfeasible. But thanks for your condescending tone.

"We've had enough of experts" indeed

On the contrary, I am all for engineering experts when it comes to engineering projects, and since this project has already been examined and costed more than once over a period of decades, it is clear that engineering experts more experienced than you, me, or @Ishmael_Z, do not consider the WW2 bombs to be a sufficient blocker to make this a no go.

Mysticrose said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

Maybe you should read more than the headline. The only person 'deriding' anything was one engineer saying it was 'crazy' to cost something that hadn't yet been designed, and said 'costs always go up'. No shit Sherlock. Nothing whatever about unexploded ordinance. As I said, PR fluff.

It would literally be the longest bridge in the world, the costs would spiral and I suspect it would be deemed unfeasible. But thanks for your condescending tone.

"We've had enough of experts" indeed

I'm not sure that will stop Johnson. He wanted the estuary airport don't forget.

It will definitely not stop him if he does a quick Google and finds it's not true.

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

They keep showing it on tv - definitely the election moment - I don t think politicos give a shit, can t speak for the proles

So no one thought it was inappropriate? I have to confess (look away now Scots) that I've never quite got the visceral hatred between SNP and SLD?

MyBurningEars said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

Maybe you should read more than the headline. The only person 'deriding' anything was one engineer saying it was 'crazy' to cost something that hadn't yet been designed, and said 'costs always go up'. No shit Sherlock. Nothing whatever about unexploded ordinance. As I said, PR fluff.

It would literally be the longest bridge in the world, the costs would spiral and I suspect it would be deemed unfeasible. But thanks for your condescending tone.

"We've had enough of experts" indeed

Someone else has linked the wiki page for a far longer bridge....

Wouldn't surprise me if the Boris Bridge is far more technically challenging mind you, and I Am Not An Expert but could well be "largest bridge of type X" for quite a painfully wide range of values of "X".

I doubt that bridge will be seriously considered, let alone built. Why invest money in places that offer you few or no votes, and which might sod off in a few years' time?

The cash would, from the point of view of political expediency, best be lavished on England and Wales. Now, a tidal power barrage across the Bristol Channel, with a road running along the top to join Glamorgan and Somerset - that would be a project... 😁

Totally agree with you CHB. Let's stick around.

Mysticrose said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

They keep showing it on tv - definitely the election moment - I don t think politicos give a shit, can t speak for the proles

So no one thought it was inappropriate? I have to confess (look away now Scots) that I've never quite got the visceral hatred between SNP and SLD?

She was made a bit uncomfortable about it and had to apologise/claim it was celebrating her 'friend' being elected, not Swinson being defeated.

alex_ said:

A random O/T thought. How much has the decline in the local press contributed to what we see today, with newspapers/media dominated by 'journalists' who spend most of their time spouting opinions which have very little grounding in real evidence or reality? And particularly has contributed to an almost total failure to understand and analyse the real thoughts of the electorate as a whole.

Where once the background of a huge of journalists was grounded in knowledge of local communities, something people took with them when they moved to the national press (or in many cases never moved) now journalists are almost all entering the media straight out of university and where ability to "make an argument" is recognised, but not to actually make an argument that fits the reality. And where they think nothing of saying one thing in November, and saying completely the opposite in December. Usually without any need to admit that this means that they may have been wrong.

Local press is part of this disconnection with the "real world", but a related issue is the way 24-hour news has generated an apparently insatiable demand for "commentators" and the recent wave of talking heads has been particularly poor. The success of the Corbyn Project within the Labour party rendered a lot of the previous "go-to" Labour-related commentators pretty useless, as their personal ties or experience wonking for New Labour/EdM left them out of tune and largely devoid of insight on the inner workings of the new machine. Their replacements were essentially activists rather than journalists - that's the pool you have to fish to get people who've hung out and cultivated connections with the far-left. The flip side of this is gobby offence-merchants on the Right who make their living spouting controversial views. Need something to make the news channels more "entertaining"/provocative and grab viewing share I guess. @MediaGuido points out the left-wing issue but not the right-wing one!

https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/1205805160016105473

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

Maybe you should read more than the headline. The only person 'deriding' anything was one engineer saying it was 'crazy' to cost something that hadn't yet been designed, and said 'costs always go up'. No shit Sherlock. Nothing whatever about unexploded ordinance. As I said, PR fluff.

It would literally be the longest bridge in the world, the costs would spiral and I suspect it would be deemed unfeasible. But thanks for your condescending tone.

"We've had enough of experts" indeed

Were're currently struggling with high speed rail, something for which the technology exists and examples can be seen in across the world. But no Boris will fix everything.

You cannot slogan your way out of building the most technologically challenging bridge in the world, in a fucking shipping lane over a giant munitions dump. Run all the Facebook campaigns you want. Plaster it over the Sun and the Mail, it changes nothing. Look at the expected cost over runs of Crossrail, HS2 and the latest super-subsidised nuclear power stations and then honestly say you think Boris, the man of 'the airport on the Thames' can feasibly build a bridge across the Irish sea.

We all know every time Johnson needed a little publicity he'd whip out one of these spaff covered monstrosities and then ignore the backlash like the mother of
his last illegitimate child. For the cost of the fucking thing you could run a free ferry service for eternity.

alex_ said:

Mysticrose said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

They keep showing it on tv - definitely the election moment - I don t think politicos give a shit, can t speak for the proles

So no one thought it was inappropriate? I have to confess (look away now Scots) that I've never quite got the visceral hatred between SNP and SLD?

She was made a bit uncomfortable about it and had to apologise/claim it was celebrating her 'friend' being elected, not Swinson being defeated.

Thanks.

It was evidently celebration at Jo's decapitation.

I guess sometime that's going to come back and bite her but who knows.

Right off for some breakfast. The sun is up.

MyBurningEars said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Gabs3 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

I can't see the bombs being a problem as much as the Irish sea being an incredibly deep trench.

It would also be the longest bridge in the world

Are we not allowed to think big any more?

Hangzhou Bay Bridge is 35.673 km (22 miles). Believe this is longer than the route under discussion. An alternative Mull of Kintyre to County Antrim route is even shorter (19 km / 12 miles) but doesn't seem to generate as much interest.

You could always build two more bridges East and West of Arran to reduce the journey time.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

IshmaelZ said:

Mysticrose said:

CHB - didn't they mock that people like us would be gone from this site by now?

Delighted you are both still around, disappointed CHB has yet to commemorate his GE punditry by changing his name to IncorrectHorseBattery.

I tried - but I can't change it!

Strong and Staple

Mysticrose said:

alex_ said:

Mysticrose said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

They keep showing it on tv - definitely the election moment - I don t think politicos give a shit, can t speak for the proles

So no one thought it was inappropriate? I have to confess (look away now Scots) that I've never quite got the visceral hatred between SNP and SLD?

She was made a bit uncomfortable about it and had to apologise/claim it was celebrating her 'friend' being elected, not Swinson being defeated.

Thanks.

It was evidently celebration at Jo's decapitation.

I guess sometime that's going to come back and bite her but who knows.

Right off for some breakfast. The sun is up.

One day the SNP won't be dominant in Scotland. It just might take independence for it to happen!

Wasn't she planning on quitting/retiring as leader early next year, or have I just totally made that up?

Casino_Royale said:

On your second question, building HS2 from the north is a non-starter. The capacity constraints are into London, so it would just be a white elephant: the trains couldn't decant anywhere.

Makes sense. Could be a long wait for them then.

Any idea of whether HS3 is only viable once HS2 is done and dusted?

RobD said:

alex_ said:

Mysticrose said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

They keep showing it on tv - definitely the election moment - I don t think politicos give a shit, can t speak for the proles

So no one thought it was inappropriate? I have to confess (look away now Scots) that I've never quite got the visceral hatred between SNP and SLD?

She was made a bit uncomfortable about it and had to apologise/claim it was celebrating her 'friend' being elected, not Swinson being defeated.

That's good - it was quite unbecoming for a party leader!

Lol sturgeon. When Boris tells her to fuck off next week he can do the fists in the air!

Black_Rook said:

MyBurningEars said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

Maybe you should read more than the headline. The only person 'deriding' anything was one engineer saying it was 'crazy' to cost something that hadn't yet been designed, and said 'costs always go up'. No shit Sherlock. Nothing whatever about unexploded ordinance. As I said, PR fluff.

It would literally be the longest bridge in the world, the costs would spiral and I suspect it would be deemed unfeasible. But thanks for your condescending tone.

"We've had enough of experts" indeed

Someone else has linked the wiki page for a far longer bridge....

Wouldn't surprise me if the Boris Bridge is far more technically challenging mind you, and I Am Not An Expert but could well be "largest bridge of type X" for quite a painfully wide range of values of "X".

I doubt that bridge will be seriously considered, let alone built. Why invest money in places that offer you few or no votes, and which might sod off in a few years' time?

The cash would, from the point of view of political expediency, best be lavished on England and Wales. Now, a tidal power barrage across the Bristol Channel, with a road running along the top to join Glamorgan and Somerset - that would be a project... 😁

I'm all for tidal barrages too. But it's worth investing so they don't sod off.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

MyBurningEars said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Interesting someone above has mentioned the Northern Ireland bridge. It's something that isn't going away - here's the DUP bringing it up just now: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/build-bridge-scotland-bolster-union-dup-urges-boris-johnson/amp/

I think it's a great idea. Great for the Borders, which is a much overlooked and beautiful part of Scotland, and great for Northern Ireland.

It's a terrible idea. The Irish Sea is fall of unexploded WW2 bombs.

That's PR fluff. Clearly you'd get the all clear on bombs before work started.

How much did Boris give himself as his infrastructure slush fund in the manifesto? Was it 80bn or am I making that up? The bridge would cost 15bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/15/boris-johnson-bonkers-plan-for-15bn-pound-bridge-derided-by-engineers

I have more sources should you not like these ones

Maybe you should read more than the headline. The only person 'deriding' anything was one engineer saying it was 'crazy' to cost something that hadn't yet been designed, and said 'costs always go up'. No shit Sherlock. Nothing whatever about unexploded ordinance. As I said, PR fluff.

It would literally be the longest bridge in the world, the costs would spiral and I suspect it would be deemed unfeasible. But thanks for your condescending tone.

"We've had enough of experts" indeed

Someone else has linked the wiki page for a far longer bridge....

Wouldn't surprise me if the Boris Bridge is far more technically challenging mind you, and I Am Not An Expert but could well be "largest bridge of type X" for quite a painfully wide range of values of "X".

I doubt that bridge will be seriously considered, let alone built. Why invest money in places that offer you few or no votes, and which might sod off in a few years' time?

The cash would, from the point of view of political expediency, best be lavished on England and Wales. Now, a tidal power barrage across the Bristol Channel, with a road running along the top to join Glamorgan and Somerset - that would be a project... 😁

I'm all for tidal barrages too. But it's worth investing so they don't sod off.

Why?

Let's scrap HS2 now. Let's use the money to improve existing rail network including new North link and reverse rail closures which LAB made 1964-1970.

Including Dumfries- Stranraer link closed by LAB 1965

Ave_it said:

Good news LAB losers taking it well. Next LAB government 2050 or next time Watford win two premier league games in a row!

In the year 2525 etc 😊😊

Big Nige will see you right, he would never need to pay for a drink if he were to visit Leicester. A real legend. Deeney is past it now though.

Liverpool are a tough place to go.

isam said:

Casino_Royale said:

It's a mistake to expect defeated Labour members and activists to come to terms with it immediately.

They need to work through the seven stages of grief first, which could take weeks or months. If they don't they will pick a leader that accords with whatever stage of grief they've reached at the time.

‘Weeks or months’? These are people who make up a large percentage of, and have the same entitled world view as, those who haven’t reached stage 2 of grief over 2016s referendum

I think i saw the new LibDem interim leader (Baroness someone) complaining that the LibDem "revoke" policy was unfairly abridged, and pointing out that the LibDems had been consistent advocates for a "people's vote"... from the day after the referendum result was announced.

Foxy said:

Ave_it said:

Good news LAB losers taking it well. Next LAB government 2050 or next time Watford win two premier league games in a row!

In the year 2525 etc 😊😊

Big Nige will see you right, he would never need to pay for a drink if he were to visit Leicester. A real legend. Deeney is past it now though.

Liverpool are a tough place to go.

Fair call Foxy. Are you the same foxy who is Leicester? If so you are doing really well ! Needed to beat Norwich though cos they are League 1 😊

Mysticrose said:

The chimera of Brexit will lead to a lot of disappointment.

The centre ground must be ready no later than 12 months from now to present an alternative agenda.

Johnson’s going to occupy it

Get Brexit done (TM) then park his tanks firmly on the centre right/soft left.

Moderately high spending socially liberal.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/nick_forbes/status/1205899563074228224

Labour are fucked for the locals. If the Con managed to convince people to vote for them because Labour aren't investing in the NHS or doing enough about homelessness then Labour are going to get destroyed at the locals.

Black_Rook said:

I'm all for tidal barrages too. But it's worth investing so they don't sod off.

Why?

Because we belong to the most successful political union in modern history. I've always loved Scotland and coming to live here has been wonderful - it's given me so much. It troubles me that people feel so alienated from Britain, and I hope that one day all of us will feel ownership and pride in every square mile. And even if you're firmly in the Little England camp, if we have no successful formula for uniting the four nations of the UK, do we also wave goodbye to Cornwall? Yorkshire? Where does it stop?

Charles said:

Mysticrose said:

The chimera of Brexit will lead to a lot of disappointment.

The centre ground must be ready no later than 12 months from now to present an alternative agenda.

Johnson’s going to occupy it

Get Brexit done (TM) then park his tanks firmly on the centre right/soft left.

Moderately high spending socially liberal.

I hope that proves correct. But how will the neoliberals in the Tory party - Rees-Mogg and the like - react?

alex_ said:

Mysticrose said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

They keep showing it on tv - definitely the election moment - I don t think politicos give a shit, can t speak for the proles

So no one thought it was inappropriate? I have to confess (look away now Scots) that I've never quite got the visceral hatred between SNP and SLD?

She was made a bit uncomfortable about it and had to apologise/claim it was celebrating her 'friend' being elected, not Swinson being defeated.

I'm not sure which measurement is being used to assert Sturgeon was 'made a bit uncomfortable', and if you think a young candidate with an impressive back story knocking out the leader of an opposition party isn't worth celebrating, perhaps you've never been part of a GE campaign (even at the low level that I've been).

If we're on gracious SLD responses in victory..

https://twitter.com/KAlmsivi/status/1205387070748925954?s=20

https://twitter.com/sblack505/status/1205795928764026881?s=20

RobD said:

Mysticrose said:

alex_ said:

Mysticrose said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Mysticrose said:

Andy_JS said:

Mysticrose said:

Casino_Royale said:

Andy_JS said:

Jeremy Corbyn's assessment of the election result:

"We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change

I'm disappointed Labour didn't drop below 200 seats, as per the exit poll.

I really wanted to taste that.

That's a rather unpleasant remark. I don't think grinding down your 'enemy' is what this country needs right now. So go and vent your hatred on something else please.

And, besides, it meant I won plenty of money

(Looked very dicey with the exit poll so I was rather relieved that Labour crept over the 200)

I agree with you. At the same time I remember when the Tories were reduced to 165 seats in 1997 and 166 in 2001 a lot of Labour supporters were crowing about it for a long time.

True!

I'm out of the country but what has been the response to Nicola Sturgeon's reaction when Jo Swinson lost her seat?

They keep showing it on tv - definitely the election moment - I don t think politicos give a shit, can t speak for the proles

So no one thought it was inappropriate? I have to confess (look away now Scots) that I've never quite got the visceral hatred between SNP and SLD?

She was made a bit uncomfortable about it and had to apologise/claim it was celebrating her 'friend' being elected, not Swinson being defeated.

Thanks.

It was evidently celebration at Jo's decapitation.

I guess sometime that's going to come back and bite her but who knows.

Right off for some breakfast. The sun is up.

One day the SNP won't be dominant in Scotland. It just might take independence for it to happen!

Wasn't she planning on quitting/retiring as leader early next year, or have I just totally made that up?

You've made it up.

I see Jezza writing in the Observer is still basically saying we woz right about everything, it was the evil media.

As a LD and Plymouth Argyle supporter, I am used to disappointment but I am very optimistic of a LD revival in Devon and Cornwall. 'Horlicks to Brexit!' and 'Revoke Article 50!' went down like a cup of cold sick here as Andrew George, struggling and failing to retake St. Ives, pointedly noted. Michael Heseltine (one time MP for Tavistock) conceded this morning that the 'war is lost and Brexit will happen'. Providing LD HQ are not stupid (not to be discounted) and campaign for an immediate rejoin, we should be able to resume our traditional 'anti-Tory' role in the South West. Layla Moran would be my choice as leader, having no coalition baggage, albeit with a slight worry that her 'chic geeky' style might not be to everyone's taste.

After Brexit, then the organic matter hits the Vent-Axia for Devon and Cornwall. Farmers and fishermen will become uncompetitive, manufacturers in Plymouth will struggle to export and the national economy will go into recession. Infrastructure spending, such as it is, will go to the North and we will be still stuck with a railway line that closes every time there is a high-tide at Dawlish. No branch-lines will reopen, and the A38 between |Exeter and Plymouth will still remain a death-trap. Still, looking on the bright side there might be a few extra low-paid jobs in the tourist industry as 'staycations' become more popular due to the hassle of passport and border controls on the continent.

At the May local elections the Tories lost control of every district council in Devon, bar West Devon and South Hams which just clung on by one councillor each. Tory Devon County Council is approaching Northamptonshire levels of incompetence, so the 2021 election is going to be very interesting.