politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Let’s talk about Islamophobia
Comments
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One thing I noticed today was the odds concerning Boris losing his seat. Was 5.0 a few days ago, now it's 3.60. Any news on the ground from his constituency?
On the phonegate story, IF that poor lad's parent put him on the floor just to take that photo for political gain, that is beyond reprehensible.0 -
RobD said:
So if Sunderland Central is a Con gain all bets are off?FrancisUrquhart said:This is what the scoreboard will look like over the course of the night if current YouGov MRP is correct (ordered by expected declarations).
If it is even close! never mind a gain.0 -
Lets not forget the ICM was not good for the Tories and clearly the Betfair punters are concerned as out at 1.34.0
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I have - for no discernible reason - had crippling back pain all day. I could really do with being a bit new and improved .........RobD said:
So you started out new and improved?Cyclefree said:
I am still Cyclefree. The one and only original. On Twitter I am @Cyclefree2. (There is no Cyclefree1 - it was probably my ineptness at joining Twitter that led me to type 2 rather than 1.RobD said:Thanks for the header, Cyclefree2 (new and even more improved?)
I am a bit bored with this election, TBH. Seems to have been going on since June. There is a world out there ......
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"Big_G_NorthWales">
It will help remain voting conservatives not to vote lib demBenpointer said:
I am not sure GO's endorsement will help though tbf.Big_G_NorthWales said:
All three London constituency polls good for the conservatives and this before George Osborne's endorsement in the Evening Standard todayRobD said:
Kensington returns to the fold!Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.1 -
Yes of course it is Islamophobia. They are using the power of the State to suppress a specific religion they don't like. I am sorry to invoke Godwin but your question is like asking whether the Nazis were really anti-Semitic.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
Personally I detest all religion but it is not right that any State should persecute people simply for their beliefs.0 -
I wouldn't be too surprised if the Betfair drift was the setup for the last big bout of tightening tomorrow ... assuming the MRP is decent, of course!MikeL said:Well YouGov Wales plus those three constituency polls look absolutely fantastic for Con.
ICM and Remain United ComRes not great, but consistent with prior equivalent polls.
Overall a pretty good polling day for Con.
But they've drifted quite a bit on Betfair - presumably because of the phone incident.0 -
1.33 again now.FrancisUrquhart said:Lets not forget the ICM was not good for the Tories and clearly the Betfair punters are concerned as out at 1.34.
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Two.BluerBlue said:
Yes, all 3 have edged very nicely in the Tory direction just at the right time, quite apart from the North and Midlands.Big_G_NorthWales said:With the positive information on Scotland, Wales and now London for the conservatives a majority must be beckoning irrespective of todays controversy
Two campaigning days to go...
Just two.
Hallelujah!!1 -
There is still 6 months left of the 2015 parliament. That we have had 2 re-elections led by 2 sub-PMs just emphasises the stupidity of the current body politic. Don;t forget though. Multiple "vote again because we don't like the result" elections led by multiple substitute PMs is perfectly democratic. Just don't ask people to vote again on Brexit. There the people who have replaced the PM twice and held two re-elections insist that people can't have another go. Because democracy...Cyclefree said:I am a bit bored with this election, TBH. Seems to have been going on since June. There is a world out there ......
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Nope. Because in the case of the two elections we will have enacted the results. Still not had that with the referendum result. So yes. Democracy.RochdalePioneers said:
There is still 6 months left of the 2015 parliament. That we have had 2 re-elections led by 2 sub-PMs just emphasises the stupidity of the current body politic. Don;t forget though. Multiple "vote again because we don't like the result" elections led by multiple substitute PMs is perfectly democratic. Just don't ask people to vote again on Brexit. There the people who have replaced the PM twice and held two re-elections insist that people can't have another go. Because democracy...Cyclefree said:I am a bit bored with this election, TBH. Seems to have been going on since June. There is a world out there ......
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No, I'm not a fan either. There is a breed of politician who thinks politics is like the West Wing and that all one has to do is say the right words, declaim the right speech, and the votes will come flocking. It's not like that, it's a very nasty, callous and selfish profession that requires decades of hard work. I don't think he got that. I used to think he was just untried, but now I think he was just in the wrong job. Perhaps he'll find his métier outside politics.Casino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.
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There were two Labour people with a large banner in Beeston earlier this evening, right in the town centre where most of the traffic goes. They weren't getting much reaction from the cars or the tram users, had buggered off when I went back past their sport twenty minutes later.GIN1138 said:
Any news on what's happening with Ms Soubry in Broxtowe?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?
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Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.0 -
Judging from NHS colleagues they fear Labour more than the Conservatives this timesaddened said:
44 out of 71 years the NHS has been under a tory government. At what point are you going to realise that they have no intention of killing it off.RochdalePioneers said:On a personal level a Tory government would be beneficial. Albeit not as beneficial as when Johnson was offering me £££. Thats hardly the point though. That boy on the floor of the hospital is the Good Times we can look forward to under a Johnson majority.
What a shame that Labour are unelectable and soon bankrupt.
Brown and Blair privatised more of the NHS than all other tory governments combined. The NHS should fear Labour more than anything else.0 -
Chuka is the only person I can possibly see becoming a centre left PM in the next decade, if not 10 more years of Boris as PM and Tory rule is on the cards, especially as Labour will learn nothing from a defeat, even a landslide loss and select another Corbyn disciple like Pidcock or Long Bailey or Burgon to succeed The Messiah after McDonnell's period as caretaker wipes out the moderatesCasino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.0 -
I wonder after today if the Boris will be deactivated for the rest of the campaign in case it has another malfunction.MarqueeMark said:
Two.BluerBlue said:
Yes, all 3 have edged very nicely in the Tory direction just at the right time, quite apart from the North and Midlands.Big_G_NorthWales said:With the positive information on Scotland, Wales and now London for the conservatives a majority must be beckoning irrespective of todays controversy
Two campaigning days to go...
Just two.
Hallelujah!!0 -
Surely that depends on what their beliefs are? Some people believe in forced marriage and FGM - both of which are now illegal.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yes of course it is Islamophobia. They are using the power of the State to suppress a specific religion they don't like. I am sorry to invoke Godwin but your question is like asking whether the Nazis were really anti-Semitic.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
Personally I detest all religion but it is not right that any State should persecute people simply for their beliefs.0 -
Excellent work.FrancisUrquhart said:This is what the scoreboard will look like over the course of the night if current YouGov MRP is correct (ordered by expected declarations).
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Great stuff, Cyclefree. Thanks once again for raising an important subject. Certainly puts Brexit in perspective.0
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I missed the Wales poll: what was it?MikeL said:Well YouGov Wales plus those three constituency polls look absolutely fantastic for Con.
ICM and Remain United ComRes not great, but consistent with prior equivalent polls.
Overall a pretty good polling day for Con.
But they've drifted quite a bit on Betfair - presumably because of the phone incident.0 -
Bears out what I have been hearing (and sharing here) about the LibDem "surge" running out of steam and retreating in London/SE England.HYUFD said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Gyimah collapsed to third, looks like Felicity Buchan will gain Kensington back for the Tories
They might yet be in trouble holding on elsewhere.....1 -
Are you telling me that Mrs Swinson isn't going to be PM? But all the 100s of leaflets I have had through the door said she was.MarqueeMark said:
Bears out what I have been hearing (and sharing here) about the LibDem "surge" running out of steam and retreating in London/SE England.HYUFD said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Gyimah collapsed to third, looks like Felicity Buchan will gain Kensington back for the Tories
They might yet be in trouble holding on elsewhere.....1 -
There’s quite an irony with those London polls. If the Lib Dems hadn’t put forward high profile candidates and ramped them we could at least be looking at a Lab hold and a Lab gain. Tactical voting was always going to be hard in these 3 way seats and the remain campaigns have messed up badly.
Where tactical voting can work is Guildford or Winchester where Labour cannot and will not win.0 -
I don't want to be a sore loser...but the Tories are rapidly going to make themselves irrelevant in a matter of months after winning the election but not the war...HYUFD said:
Chuka is the only person I can possibly see becoming a centre left PM in the next decade, if not 10 more years of Boris as PM and Tory rule is on the cards, especially as Labour will learn nothing from a defeat, even a landslide loss and select another Corbyn disciple like Pidcock or Long Bailey or Burgon to succeed The Messiah after McDonnell's period as caretaker wipes out the moderatesCasino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.0 -
Answer, the West won't do anything, because it can't do anything. Western hegemony is very much over, and this is the biggest proof of that, to date.
China is the world's dominant trader, its biggest country, a massive importer, a global creditor, a nuclear superpower. It is in some ways stronger than the USA, and if the USA was committing some enormity we didn't like, what could anyone do?
The only hope for the Uyghurs is internal strife or major reform in China. The former is unlikely, the latter a long way off.1 -
I've always been in favour of it. Close cooperation between nation states is fine.Foxy said:
Glad to see you come out for international co-operation on foreign and security policy. Why not add economic and trade policy too...Casino_Royale said:Excellent article, Cyclefree.
On topic, the West as a whole should increasingly coordinate its foreign and security policy multilaterally amongst like-minded countries, and in the first instance use that to keep China (and others like it) out of South American and Africa. It should also start to form closer bonds with India, which has its own challenges but is at least sympathetic to democratic values.
The West is still a powerful force if properly led and coordinated with hard and soft power. But not even the US is powerful enough anymore to contain China on its own.
I'm just not in favour of ideological political unification.1 -
Fair point, but the Christians and Falun Gong haven't been vivisected (at least not recently!). We are talking about concentration camps and medical experiments without anaesthesia.Foxy said:
Christians and Falun Gong practitioners have been persecuted too, though rarely as systematically as the Uigars.ydoethur said:
It is perhaps worth pointing out that the Chinese government regards all religious affiliation with deep suspicion - including Buddhism, which is hardly a typical religion. That’s partly a legacy of communism, and also I think their belief that being religious is un-Chinese.Cyclefree said:
As best I can tell China wants to erase any trace of Muslimness from the Uighurs. It seems to be equating Islam with extremism, at least judging by its public statements. That seems pretty Islamophobic to me.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
But yes you are right that China is both able and willing to use very extreme measures to eliminate any sort of opposition.
At some point I think that sort of ruthless power will be used outside China.
Such cultural revolutions are nothing new under the Maoists, of course.0 -
Boris comes out in favour of unrestricted immigration
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1204042408457121793?s=191 -
Interesting, they're certainly in difficulty in the Scottish seats that they hold, from what I'm hearing.MarqueeMark said:
Bears out what I have been hearing (and sharing here) about the LibDem "surge" running out of steam and retreating in London/SE England.HYUFD said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Gyimah collapsed to third, looks like Felicity Buchan will gain Kensington back for the Tories
They might yet be in trouble holding on elsewhere.....2 -
They aren't, Survation today had the Tories getting their biggest voteshare since Heath and their biggest majority since Thatcher, with that new coalition they are set for another decade in power unless the left and centre left is really prepared to change and push to win rather than talking to itselftyson said:
I don't want to be a sore loser...but the Tories are rapidly going to make themselves irrelevant in a matter of months after winning the election but not the war...HYUFD said:
Chuka is the only person I can possibly see becoming a centre left PM in the next decade, if not 10 more years of Boris as PM and Tory rule is on the cards, especially as Labour will learn nothing from a defeat, even a landslide loss and select another Corbyn disciple like Pidcock or Long Bailey or Burgon to succeed The Messiah after McDonnell's period as caretaker wipes out the moderatesCasino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.0 -
I can’t disagree with much of that - though I’d point out that China is already in those places in a big way; ‘keeping them out’ isn’t really an option. Offering a more attractive alternative certainly is, as countries come to realise the Chinese are not always the easiest of partners.Casino_Royale said:Excellent article, Cyclefree.
On topic, the West as a whole should increasingly coordinate its foreign and security policy multilaterally amongst like-minded countries, and in the first instance use that to keep China (and others like it) out of South American and Africa. It should also start to form closer bonds with India, which has its own challenges but is at least sympathetic to democratic values.
The West is still a powerful force if properly led and coordinated with hard and soft power. But not even the US is powerful enough anymore to contain China on its own.
As for the West ‘increasingly coordinating foreign and security policy’, most recent moves have been in the opposite direction.
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Problem is, they are running up against Fear Of Corbyn. An angle the Conservatives are going full tilt with in the last few days, where the LibDems might peel votes off the Tories. Sod Remain, worry about Corbyn.Brom said:There’s quite an irony with those London polls. If the Lib Dems hadn’t put forward high profile candidates and ramped them we could at least be looking at a Lab hold and a Lab gain. Tactical voting was always going to be hard in these 3 way seats and the remain campaigns have messed up badly.
Where tactical voting can work is Guildford or Winchester where Labour cannot and will not win.0 -
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.0 -
funkhauser said:
The Leeds hospital Labour lies unravel in record time,thought it would at least take until the morning.
If that story is anywhere near true , Corbyn and the Daily Mirror are going to be in for a big backlash
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Those are specifics which can and should be banned. But that does not encapsulate the whole of Islam any more than not eating meat on Friday encapsulates Christianity.Jason said:
Surely that depends on what their beliefs are? Some people believe in forced marriage and FGM - both of which are now illegal.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yes of course it is Islamophobia. They are using the power of the State to suppress a specific religion they don't like. I am sorry to invoke Godwin but your question is like asking whether the Nazis were really anti-Semitic.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
Personally I detest all religion but it is not right that any State should persecute people simply for their beliefs.
Outlawing practices which are harmful and run counter to the existing laws of the land is one thing. Persecuting a whole religion irrespective of its specific acts is quite another.0 -
Though India is also rising, a capitalist, democratic counterweight to China, which combined with the USA could prove a check on BeijingByronic said:Answer, the West won't do anything, because it can't do anything. Western hegemony is very much over, and this is the biggest proof of that, to date.
China is the world's dominant trader, its biggest country, a massive importer, a global creditor, a nuclear superpower. It is in some ways stronger than the USA, and if the USA was committing some enormity we didn't like, what could anyone do?
The only hope for the Uyghurs is internal strife or major reform in China. The former is unlikely, the latter a long way off.0 -
I think it will just create a new campaign rule to just do rallies in safe venues for the last 3-4 days of a campaign.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder after today if the Boris will be deactivated for the rest of the campaign in case it has another malfunction.MarqueeMark said:
Two.BluerBlue said:
Yes, all 3 have edged very nicely in the Tory direction just at the right time, quite apart from the North and Midlands.Big_G_NorthWales said:With the positive information on Scotland, Wales and now London for the conservatives a majority must be beckoning irrespective of todays controversy
Two campaigning days to go...
Just two.
Hallelujah!!
If Boris gets back to Getting Brexit Done in front of receptive crowds for another 48 hours, no one will give a shit about phone(y)gate.0 -
Major strife in China would be a disaster for the rest of the world give how reliant we have become on their manufacturing.Byronic said:Answer, the West won't do anything, because it can't do anything. Western hegemony is very much over, and this is the biggest proof of that, to date.
China is the world's dominant trader, its biggest country, a massive importer, a global creditor, a nuclear superpower. It is in some ways stronger than the USA, and if the USA was committing some enormity we didn't like, what could anyone do?
The only hope for the Uyghurs is internal strife or major reform in China. The former is unlikely, the latter a long way off.0 -
https://twitter.com/JasminMuj/status/1204052522098470912?s=19Casino_Royale said:Excellent article, Cyclefree.
On topic, the West as a whole should increasingly coordinate its foreign and security policy multilaterally amongst like-minded countries, and in the first instance use that to keep China (and others like it) out of South American and Africa. It should also start to form closer bonds with India, which has its own challenges but is at least sympathetic to democratic values.
.0 -
Rayner has the fiery red hair to do a Kinnock on the new Militant!GIN1138 said:1 -
Let's talk in 2 years HUYDHYUFD said:
They aren't, Survation today had the Tories getting their biggest voteshare since Heath and their biggest majority since Thatcher, with that new coalition they are set for another decade in power unless the left and centre left is really prepared to change and push to win rather than talking to itselftyson said:
I don't want to be a sore loser...but the Tories are rapidly going to make themselves irrelevant in a matter of months after winning the election but not the war...HYUFD said:
Chuka is the only person I can possibly see becoming a centre left PM in the next decade, if not 10 more years of Boris as PM and Tory rule is on the cards, especially as Labour will learn nothing from a defeat, even a landslide loss and select another Corbyn disciple like Pidcock or Long Bailey or Burgon to succeed The Messiah after McDonnell's period as caretaker wipes out the moderatesCasino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.
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It is unthinkable that we would allow China to base People's Liberation Army nuclear weapons in this country. Yet we let them build a nuclear power station on the banks of the Severn estuary.....Nigelb said:
I can’t disagree with much of that - though I’d point out that China is already in those places in a big way; ‘keeping them out’ isn’t really an option. Offering a more attractive alternative certainly is, as countries come to realise the Chinese are not always the easiest of partners.Casino_Royale said:Excellent article, Cyclefree.
On topic, the West as a whole should increasingly coordinate its foreign and security policy multilaterally amongst like-minded countries, and in the first instance use that to keep China (and others like it) out of South American and Africa. It should also start to form closer bonds with India, which has its own challenges but is at least sympathetic to democratic values.
The West is still a powerful force if properly led and coordinated with hard and soft power. But not even the US is powerful enough anymore to contain China on its own.
As for the West ‘increasingly coordinating foreign and security policy’, most recent moves have been in the opposite direction.0 -
This far, the only proven lies are those about the “assault’.kjohnw1 said:funkhauser said:The Leeds hospital Labour lies unravel in record time,thought it would at least take until the morning.
If that story is anywhere near true , Corbyn and the Daily Mirror are going to be in for a big backlash
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/09/tories-accused-lying-distract-photo-boy-hospital-floor
No doubt we will find out by tomorrow.0 -
You can see why they have tried to keep him in a box for so long. He really doesn't have any sense of what he is saying.Alistair said:Boris comes out in favour of unrestricted immigration
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1204042408457121793?s=190 -
Yes - but we don’t persecute them simply prosecute and prevent them doing the illegal acts.Jason said:
Surely that depends on what their beliefs are? Some people believe in forced marriage and FGM - both of which are now illegal.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yes of course it is Islamophobia. They are using the power of the State to suppress a specific religion they don't like. I am sorry to invoke Godwin but your question is like asking whether the Nazis were really anti-Semitic.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
Personally I detest all religion but it is not right that any State should persecute people simply for their beliefs.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_Chinaviewcode said:
Fair point, but the Christians and Falun Gong haven't been vivisected (at least not recently!). We are talking about concentration camps and medical experiments without anaesthesia.Foxy said:
Christians and Falun Gong practitioners have been persecuted too, though rarely as systematically as the Uigars.ydoethur said:
It is perhaps worth pointing out that the Chinese government regards all religious affiliation with deep suspicion - including Buddhism, which is hardly a typical religion. That’s partly a legacy of communism, and also I think their belief that being religious is un-Chinese.Cyclefree said:
As best I can tell China wants to erase any trace of Muslimness from the Uighurs. It seems to be equating Islam with extremism, at least judging by its public statements. That seems pretty Islamophobic to me.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
But yes you are right that China is both able and willing to use very extreme measures to eliminate any sort of opposition.
At some point I think that sort of ruthless power will be used outside China.
Such cultural revolutions are nothing new under the Maoists, of course.0 -
Yes, I don't think Casino has been to Africa or South America recently. I have,Nigelb said:
I can’t disagree with much of that - though I’d point out that China is already in those places in a big way; ‘keeping them out’ isn’t really an option. Offering a more attractive alternative certainly is, as countries come to realise the Chinese are not always the easiest of partners.Casino_Royale said:Excellent article, Cyclefree.
On topic, the West as a whole should increasingly coordinate its foreign and security policy multilaterally amongst like-minded countries, and in the first instance use that to keep China (and others like it) out of South American and Africa. It should also start to form closer bonds with India, which has its own challenges but is at least sympathetic to democratic values.
The West is still a powerful force if properly led and coordinated with hard and soft power. But not even the US is powerful enough anymore to contain China on its own.
As for the West ‘increasingly coordinating foreign and security policy’, most recent moves have been in the opposite direction.
China basically owns much of Africa, and has already replaced the USA as the biggest trader with Latin America.
"China is Brazil’s biggest trading partner and largest source of foreign investment. Last year, bilateral trade rose to a record $100 billion."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-brazil-trade/china-says-willing-to-increase-ags-industrial-goods-imports-from-brazil-idUSKBN1X41AG
There are Chinese everywhere in Latin America and Africa. The idea we could "keep them out" is like the French thinking they could keep the British out of India in 18800 -
Well there is this point that ultimately people who work in the public sector really know how shit they’d be at really running all the things that Labour want them to be responsible for running. Or perhaps more reasonably they understand the impossibility if running many of these things under permanent micromanaged “democratic” oversight.dellertronic said:
Judging from NHS colleagues they fear Labour more than the Conservatives this timesaddened said:
44 out of 71 years the NHS has been under a tory government. At what point are you going to realise that they have no intention of killing it off.RochdalePioneers said:On a personal level a Tory government would be beneficial. Albeit not as beneficial as when Johnson was offering me £££. Thats hardly the point though. That boy on the floor of the hospital is the Good Times we can look forward to under a Johnson majority.
What a shame that Labour are unelectable and soon bankrupt.
Brown and Blair privatised more of the NHS than all other tory governments combined. The NHS should fear Labour more than anything else.
And they really couldn’t give a sh*t who’s employing the cleaners!1 -
A very informative and enlightening header.
The comments however have degenerated into the usual nightly Tory backslapping. What a shame. Good night.1 -
And CumbriaAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Interesting, they're certainly in difficulty in the Scottish seats that they hold, from what I'm hearing.MarqueeMark said:
Bears out what I have been hearing (and sharing here) about the LibDem "surge" running out of steam and retreating in London/SE England.HYUFD said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Gyimah collapsed to third, looks like Felicity Buchan will gain Kensington back for the Tories
They might yet be in trouble holding on elsewhere.....1 -
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review
0 -
YouGov Wales:Fysics_Teacher said:
I missed the Wales poll: what was it?MikeL said:Well YouGov Wales plus those three constituency polls look absolutely fantastic for Con.
ICM and Remain United ComRes not great, but consistent with prior equivalent polls.
Overall a pretty good polling day for Con.
But they've drifted quite a bit on Betfair - presumably because of the phone incident.
Lab 40, Con 37. Swing 6% Lab to Con from 2017.
Con gain 8 seats on UNS - 16 seats vs 8 seats in 2017.
See PB from 5pm.0 -
0
-
I saw thr thread header. I.lost the will to read it.. far too long...1
-
No, just ensuring immigrants are treated the same as everyone else, a points system instead of free movement for everyone.Alistair said:Boris comes out in favour of unrestricted immigration
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1204042408457121793?s=19
1 -
The Tory vote looks very efficient this election. They have enough about them to hold their seats in the South, despite losing some votes to the Lib Dems. In the Midlands there appear to be a whole load of seats there for the taking that only require a small swing, yet these seats are in places where the Lab to Con swing is larger than the National swing.
I genuinely feel the Tories could get a small majority with a 4 point lead 42-38 and I’d be 80% certain they will get a majority with a 5 point lead judging by the constituency polls.0 -
I agree with you 100% about religion in general Richard. There is no force in human history that has served to divide a common purpose more successfully than organised religion.Richard_Tyndall said:
Those are specifics which can and should be banned. But that does not encapsulate the whole of Islam any more than not eating meat on Friday encapsulates Christianity.Jason said:
Surely that depends on what their beliefs are? Some people believe in forced marriage and FGM - both of which are now illegal.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yes of course it is Islamophobia. They are using the power of the State to suppress a specific religion they don't like. I am sorry to invoke Godwin but your question is like asking whether the Nazis were really anti-Semitic.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
Personally I detest all religion but it is not right that any State should persecute people simply for their beliefs.
Outlawing practices which are harmful and run counter to the existing laws of the land is one thing. Persecuting a whole religion irrespective of its specific acts is quite another.
2 -
Well said Cyclefree
I watched a you tube documentary a week or 2 back and it certainly opened my eyes.
In the past I must admit I thought the reports must be overblown, but looking into things it seems not.
As you say there is probably an element of people recalling Islamic terror and staying quiet.
I too cannot understand why Muslim countries stay silent - why they would speak up for China beggars belief.
Muslim extremists call for jihad against the west, but seem not to be overly perturbed by China and the left are fixated on Israel rather than this and say little if anything in condemnation.
As to what can be done, probably not a lot - perhaps our student bodies might like to suggest sanctions?0 -
You will still be whining about the Tories...tyson said:
Let's talk in 2 years HUYDHYUFD said:
They aren't, Survation today had the Tories getting their biggest voteshare since Heath and their biggest majority since Thatcher, with that new coalition they are set for another decade in power unless the left and centre left is really prepared to change and push to win rather than talking to itselftyson said:
I don't want to be a sore loser...but the Tories are rapidly going to make themselves irrelevant in a matter of months after winning the election but not the war...HYUFD said:
Chuka is the only person I can possibly see becoming a centre left PM in the next decade, if not 10 more years of Boris as PM and Tory rule is on the cards, especially as Labour will learn nothing from a defeat, even a landslide loss and select another Corbyn disciple like Pidcock or Long Bailey or Burgon to succeed The Messiah after McDonnell's period as caretaker wipes out the moderatesCasino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.0 -
I thought for a moment you were talking about the drink Kia Ora!Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review
Does it still exist? Absolutely disgusting but an occasional guilty pleasure at the cinema when I was a child.1 -
Very clear most voters don't give a toss about campaigns and inertia is a very strong force or Plaid would be miles ahead of Labour in Wales.0
-
Yes. It played tonight and was amazing.KeithJenner said:Boris has done a Love Actually video.
https://www.facebook.com/borisjohnson/videos/513068995952552/
Some very good IT people in his campaign0 -
It has been oft repeated that 2010, 2015, and 2017 all looked like good elections to lose, and yet it looks like the 'winning' party will be re-elected once again.tyson said:
I don't want to be a sore loser...but the Tories are rapidly going to make themselves irrelevant in a matter of months after winning the election but not the war...HYUFD said:
Chuka is the only person I can possibly see becoming a centre left PM in the next decade, if not 10 more years of Boris as PM and Tory rule is on the cards, especially as Labour will learn nothing from a defeat, even a landslide loss and select another Corbyn disciple like Pidcock or Long Bailey or Burgon to succeed The Messiah after McDonnell's period as caretaker wipes out the moderatesCasino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.
Indeed, from the left's approach to elections over the past decade it looks like they've taken 'next election is a good one to lose' to a whole new level.0 -
Then make those specific acts illegal - It would also be useful if those laws were upheld when already in placeJason said:
Surely that depends on what their beliefs are? Some people believe in forced marriage and FGM - both of which are now illegal.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yes of course it is Islamophobia. They are using the power of the State to suppress a specific religion they don't like. I am sorry to invoke Godwin but your question is like asking whether the Nazis were really anti-Semitic.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
Personally I detest all religion but it is not right that any State should persecute people simply for their beliefs.0 -
Thanks.MikeL said:
YouGov Wales:Fysics_Teacher said:
I missed the Wales poll: what was it?MikeL said:Well YouGov Wales plus those three constituency polls look absolutely fantastic for Con.
ICM and Remain United ComRes not great, but consistent with prior equivalent polls.
Overall a pretty good polling day for Con.
But they've drifted quite a bit on Betfair - presumably because of the phone incident.
Lab 40, Con 37. Swing 6% Lab to Con from 2017.
Con gain 8 seats on UNS - 16 seats vs 8 seats in 2017.
See PB from 5pm.0 -
The biggest impact of the Trump policies has been to impress upon much of the world that America doesn't keep its promises.glw said:
Now I hate Trump a lot more than most people, but I'm not sure he has had such a large effect in that regard as people say he has, because China has been pursuing technological independence and native production for a long time. What we are seeing is that the capital and other resource investment over the last couple of decades in sectors like semiconductors, telecoms, aviation, and military equipment is now bearing fruit. What Trump unquestionably has done though, is to confirm in Chinese minds the necessity of such policy goals.Nigelb said:
Quite. So far, the most significant effect of Trump’s actions has been to greatly accelerate the speed at which China is developing domestic alternatives to the technology sectors in which it still relies on the West.mwadams said:I think perhaps the US leader is not even challenging China for economic gain.
Brazil and Argentina both bowed very early to Trump pressure on exports. They agreed to limit exports of metals and agricultural products to avoid tariffs. It was a classic early example of success. Mr Trump waved a big stick, other countries folded.
The consequence of limiting exports, though, is that both countries have now struggled economically. And this has resulted in domestic demand being weaker (which means their citizens buying fewer American products) and their currencies depreciating more against the US Dollar. Result: the trade deficit has widened again, and therefor President Trump has imposed tariffs on them both.
Why bother coming to a deal with America, when it just reneges?
The Trans-Pacific Partnership was an attempt by the free economies of the Pacific to put in place a trading system running on Western rules. It was a rules based way of reducing Chinese influence, and locking countries into the US orbit. And then it was jettisoned, and what has come out is severely weakened by the absence of the US.0 -
Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.0 -
No news from me, but there will be a bottle of Champaign in ice, just in case she looses her deposit.GIN1138 said:
Any news on what's happening with Ms Soubry in Broxtowe?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?
2 -
The reason Muslim countries stay silent on China is because they know 1. China doesn't give a shit what they say anyway, and 2. ginormous China keeps them in petrodollars, as America retreatsFloater said:Well said Cyclefree
I watched a you tube documentary a week or 2 back and it certainly opened my eyes.
In the past I must admit I thought the reports must be overblown, but looking into things it seems not.
As you say there is probably an element of people recalling Islamic terror and staying quiet.
I too cannot understand why Muslim countries stay silent - why they would speak up for China beggars belief.
Muslim extremists call for jihad against the west, but seem not to be overly perturbed by China and the left are fixated on Israel rather than this and say little if anything in condemnation.
As to what can be done, probably not a lot - perhaps our student bodies might like to suggest sanctions?
The first is probably more important. Unlike the West, China has no guilt complex, and no leftist human right campaigners to "worry about".
It really is a gross display of cowardly hypocrisy, however. The Muslim world is badly served by grotesque leaders.
0 -
I won't buy one.... even 15 mins is too long...squareroot2 said:Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.0 -
A good choice. I couldn't manage the waiting list when I looked in Feb. Electric cars are just about on the money now.Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review0 -
To be fair, they should be three of safest seats in the country for the Conservatives.Brom said:
All 3 of those look in the bag for the Tories. I always knew Boris was more popular in London than a lot of folk make out.KentRising said:
Bye, Chukka!Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?0 -
Take the timesquareroot2 said:I saw thr thread header. I.lost the will to read it.. far too long...
1 -
280 mile range when you have a full charge and optimal ambient temperatures.Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review0 -
And looking back a pretty racist advert I think...Cyclefree said:
I thought for a moment you were talking about the drink Kia Ora!Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review
Does it still exist? Absolutely disgusting but an occasional guilty pleasure at the cinema when I was a child.
Or was that Um Bongo?0 -
Brexit will be a fact by next summer, so not really going to be a big factor. It will then be about continuing grinding austerity. Rayner would tear lums out of BoZo.tyson said:0 -
ITV reporter comes across very aggressive on BBC news, Boris though comes across as reasonable, sorry to hear about the case and will look into it and proud to be investing in rebuilding the infirmary.
Kuenssberg also interviews a Northern working class voter voting Tory to keep Corbyn out0 -
Sure, we can’t intervene directly. And the Chinese would (with a some degree of justification) point it how the West treated them historically when we were the dominant powers.Byronic said:Answer, the West won't do anything, because it can't do anything. Western hegemony is very much over, and this is the biggest proof of that, to date.
China is the world's dominant trader, its biggest country, a massive importer, a global creditor, a nuclear superpower. It is in some ways stronger than the USA, and if the USA was committing some enormity we didn't like, what could anyone do?
The only hope for the Uyghurs is internal strife or major reform in China. The former is unlikely, the latter a long way off.
But it would equally be a mistake to overestimate China’s power.
The competition is surely about proving that liberal democracies can deliver better outcomes both socially and economically. And that is not a lost battle.0 -
I had a 2014 Nissan Leaf. Poor car (in terms of ergonomics). Poor electric car (range, charging speed). Quite happy in my diseasal Volvo S90. Or would be had it not demolished a Ford Fiesta last month and been replaced by an insurance V90 petrol that (yay) is turbo and supercharged but (boo) drinks unleaded like its going out of business.Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review
I think a big Volvo is exactly the kind of car that McDonnell wants to tax out of existence.0 -
It's not irony, it's by design. Lib dem leadership prefer Johnson to CorbynBrom said:There’s quite an irony with those London polls. If the Lib Dems hadn’t put forward high profile candidates and ramped them we could at least be looking at a Lab hold and a Lab gain. Tactical voting was always going to be hard in these 3 way seats and the remain campaigns have messed up badly.
Where tactical voting can work is Guildford or Winchester where Labour cannot and will not win.0 -
Kia ora was the crows 'I'll be your dog'Fysics_Teacher said:
And looking back a pretty racist advert I think...Cyclefree said:
I thought for a moment you were talking about the drink Kia Ora!Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review
Does it still exist? Absolutely disgusting but an occasional guilty pleasure at the cinema when I was a child.
Or was that Um Bongo?
Um bongo was um bongo um bongo they drink it in the Congo0 -
I don't want to lose this election...I really don'tChameleon said:
It has been oft repeated that 2010, 2015, and 2017 all looked like good elections to lose, and yet it looks like the 'winning' party will be re-elected once again.tyson said:
I don't want to be a sore loser...but the Tories are rapidly going to make themselves irrelevant in a matter of months after winning the election but not the war...HYUFD said:
Chuka is the only person I can possibly see becoming a centre left PM in the next decade, if not 10 more years of Boris as PM and Tory rule is on the cards, especially as Labour will learn nothing from a defeat, even a landslide loss and select another Corbyn disciple like Pidcock or Long Bailey or Burgon to succeed The Messiah after McDonnell's period as caretaker wipes out the moderatesCasino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.
Indeed, from the left's approach to elections over the past decade it looks like they've taken 'next election is a good one to lose' to a whole new level.
But the Tories...winning this election, Boris as the PM, no programme for Govt, no clue for Brexit...fighting an election on slogans and scaring people on Corbyn...it doesn't bode well for where your party is going....This will be the last Tory victory in a very long time
0 -
While I doubt the fevered excitement some are having for Boris's gaffes or poor word choices today will be bourne out, I do wonder why they are changing strategy now to make him much more prominent. To my surprise the cautious, restricted approach was working, why risk that on the assumption the red wall was crumbling and Boris was the man to knock it down, when it was apparenetly shaky enough without him plastering his face on the telly in more prominent ways, and ways that might arise from him cocking up?Richard_Tyndall said:
You can see why they have tried to keep him in a box for so long. He really doesn't have any sense of what he is saying.Alistair said:Boris comes out in favour of unrestricted immigration
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1204042408457121793?s=19
They seem to be predicted to get anything from 1-5 in Scotland, even with an increase in vote.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Interesting, they're certainly in difficulty in the Scottish seats that they hold, from what I'm hearing.MarqueeMark said:
Bears out what I have been hearing (and sharing here) about the LibDem "surge" running out of steam and retreating in London/SE England.HYUFD said:Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Gyimah collapsed to third, looks like Felicity Buchan will gain Kensington back for the Tories
They might yet be in trouble holding on elsewhere.....0 -
Boys/Girls - am I really the only person here who thinks Chuka is lush...?0
-
LOL!KeithJenner said:Boris has done a Love Actually video.
https://www.facebook.com/borisjohnson/videos/513068995952552/
All the lefties that were involved with Love Actually like Hugh Grant and Emma Thompson will be horrified. 1 -
I liked the Um Bongo advert morewooliedyed said:
Kia ora was the crows 'I'll be your dog'Fysics_Teacher said:
And looking back a pretty racist advert I think...Cyclefree said:
I thought for a moment you were talking about the drink Kia Ora!Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review
Does it still exist? Absolutely disgusting but an occasional guilty pleasure at the cinema when I was a child.
Or was that Um Bongo?
Um bongo was um bongo um bongo they drink it in the Congo 0 -
This is a normal technology adoption curve. Early adopters pay up, and this means that the work gets done to drive costs down.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
Here's a bold prediction: within 20 years, 85% of vehicles sold with be completely electric. Simply, at a certain point they will be meaningfully cheaper to buy and to own.1 -
Rod Crosby is definitely NOT dead btw.1
-
A longer range than my current petrol car. A full charge is about £7, no congestion charge and emission zone charge, cheap tax, insurance and servicing. The future is electric.IshmaelZ said:
280 mile range when you have a full charge and optimal ambient temperatures.Foxy said:
Kia e-Niro has a 280 mile range and is highly liveable, and £34 000. Great long term test review here.IshmaelZ said:
A friend recently accepted the offer of a lift across Dartmoor on a cold night in an all-electric car. Battery was a bit low so they couldn't have the heating on, and when the windscreen started fogging up they had to open the windows to clear it. I will be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable.Casino_Royale said:
Electric vehicles need to be 30-40k, not 60-70k, and there need to be lots of 15 mins or less charging points *everywhere*.Pulpstar said:Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !
Then, they will sell.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/kia/e-niro/long-term-reviews/kia-e-niro-2019-long-term-review0 -
Yes, it's very clever, and exceptionally skilled trolling of Hugh Grant, EsqGIN1138 said:
LOL!KeithJenner said:Boris has done a Love Actually video.
https://www.facebook.com/borisjohnson/videos/513068995952552/
All the lefties that were involved with Love Actually like Hugh Grant and Emma Thompson will be horrified.
Boris haters will chuck their lunch, swing voters might be charmed.2 -
You are missing one of the biggest reasons they stay silent. They don't exactly have the best human rights record for their own citizens, even if they're Muslim; Especially if they're the wrong sort of Muslim.Byronic said:
The reason Muslim countries stay silent on China is because they know 1. China doesn't give a shit what they say anyway, and 2. ginormous China keeps them in petrodollars, as America retreats#Floater said:Well said Cyclefree
I watched a you tube documentary a week or 2 back and it certainly opened my eyes.
In the past I must admit I thought the reports must be overblown, but looking into things it seems not.
As you say there is probably an element of people recalling Islamic terror and staying quiet.
I too cannot understand why Muslim countries stay silent - why they would speak up for China beggars belief.
Muslim extremists call for jihad against the west, but seem not to be overly perturbed by China and the left are fixated on Israel rather than this and say little if anything in condemnation.
As to what can be done, probably not a lot - perhaps our student bodies might like to suggest sanctions?0 -
He is risen!Pulpstar said:Rod Crosby is definitely NOT dead btw.
2 -
Is it the bit where the PM tells the US president exactly what he thinks of him? Or was that last week?KeithJenner said:Boris has done a Love Actually video.
https://www.facebook.com/borisjohnson/videos/513068995952552/
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Well this is an interesting thread and a welcome change from discussing what we've been discussing for the last eight weeks or more. And I never knew Picasso was a Stalinist.
Open question: what would have happened had the other side won the Spanish Civil War? Would Spain have become a member of the liberal west? Or a Soviet satellite? Or a sui generis leftist state a la Yugoslavia?0
