politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Let’s talk about Islamophobia
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Let’s talk about Islamophobia
Vladimir Bukovsky died recently, in the country he called home after his 1976 expulsion from Russia. He was one of the last Russian dissidents from a time when concerns about Russia related not to its interference in Western elections or its financial links with Western leaders but about the spread of its Communist ideology, its brutal control of Eastern Europe, its appalling treatment of those who protested (incarceration as “insane” in psychiatric jails) or those who wanted to leave (Russian Jews – Anatoly Sharansky, for instance). All a very long time ago now, from a period when the Berlin Wall was standing, a structure exemplifying the brutal reality that Communist states were prisons: to try and escape meant death. It is history now, unimaginable to the generations since, even if there are some, even in the West, who still mourn its passing.
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I think perhaps the US leader is not even challenging China for economic gain.0
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Anymore polls this evening?0
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Seen but not third.0
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The Leeds hospital Labour lies unravel in record time,thought it would at least take until the morning.0
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Great thread, and there is no easy answer, maybe there is no satisfactory answer at all. Our shame is we are not even asking the question.0
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Islamophobia: Channel 4's amazing expose of Hartlepool Brexit Party tonight.
Brexiteers racist. Shocked I Am...1 -
Whose lies?funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
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There was a horrific story in the ST about our government’s attempts to hush up murders by Putin’s henchmen on our soil. This pathetic weakness is of a piece with our cowardice about China. The west is weak and getting weaker. With China I fear it is too late.0
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Where is PB's "Noo"?
I mentioned the Uighurs several times when he/she used to say "Good morning, Islamophobes".0 -
I think the sad truth is that even if the West were not led by crooks and clowns there is very little that can be done to help the Uighers. China is a net exporter of major materials and resources, and while it is a major importer of food it could be self-sufficient in it if it had to be. So sanctions are most unlikely to have a significant effect. Military action is out of the question and even if the PLA were not as powerful as it is, the remote location of Xinjiang would make any attempt to help by force extremely difficult. Sanctions on Chinese leaders are unlikely to bother them overmuch given where they keep their money and how they spend it, and diplomatic pressure for all these reasons will simply be ignored, as it has been for forty years over Tibet.
Any approach not taking one of those options would be so slow as to be meaningless.
If anyone who is more expert in these matters than me can show me where my logic fails, I am listening. But the alarming conclusion is that China is in a sufficiently secure position now that it can act with more or less total impunity.-1 -
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
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15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
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Thank you for this. Of the questions you rightly ask the most pressing is: Where is the Islamic world on this issue? If Islamic countries possessing great resources, controlling much oil supply and having a moral responsibility within its own religious community can't or won't use all its substantial powers over this issue it is hardly likely that the west will make it a priority. If the lead is not to come from Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey it is hardly going to come from a fragmented west is it?0
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Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?2
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Angela Rayner takes no prisoners!
I shall up my stakes for leader...0 -
This #bbcqt gives the lie to the notion that Angela Rayner is a serious leadership candidate.0
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Amazing how credulous pb tories can be when it suits themnico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
Talking about misleading people
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I am not touching a twitter account with 70 followers with a barge-pole for any kind of info.nico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
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Proud of punching rival football fans FROM BEHIND. A real hard man.RochdalePioneers said:Islamophobia: Channel 4's amazing expose of Hartlepool Brexit Party tonight.
Brexiteers racist. Shocked I Am...0 -
It’s my biggest fear.DavidL said:There was a horrific story in the ST about our government’s attempts to hush up murders by Putin’s henchmen on our soil. This pathetic weakness is of a piece with our cowardice about China. The west is weak and getting weaker. With China I fear it is too late.
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Another view on the Bristol rally, it's not Brum 2017;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/corbyn-plays-all-the-old-favourites-in-bristol-but-no-ones-dancing
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Quite. So far, the most significant effect of Trump’s actions has been to greatly accelerate the speed at which China is developing domestic alternatives to the technology sectors in which it still relies on the West.mwadams said:I think perhaps the US leader is not even challenging China for economic gain.
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Must be a graduate of the Tommy Robinson school of Football thuggery.noneoftheabove said:
Proud of punching rival football fans FROM BEHIND. A real hard man.RochdalePioneers said:Islamophobia: Channel 4's amazing expose of Hartlepool Brexit Party tonight.
Brexiteers racist. Shocked I Am...0 -
It will only go anywhere if the media want it tooFrancisUrquhart said:
I am not touching a twitter account with 70 followers with a barge-pole for any kind of info.nico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
Talking about misleading people
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I can't believe that. Bristol is West Country Islington.HaroldO said:Another view on the Bristol rally, it's not Brum 2017;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/corbyn-plays-all-the-old-favourites-in-bristol-but-no-ones-dancing0 -
I gave up the so called moderator seemed determined to shoot them all down with her views and allowed panelists to make claims against others without them getting a right of reply.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:This #bbcqt gives the lie to the notion that Angela Rayner is a serious leadership candidate.
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To borrow Malc's analysis. Cuckoo.funkhauser said:The Leeds hospital Labour lies unravel in record time,thought it would at least take until the morning.
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Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?1 -
And if it stands up to the bare minimum of verificationBig_G_NorthWales said:
It will only go anywhere if the media want it tooFrancisUrquhart said:
I am not touching a twitter account with 70 followers with a barge-pole for any kind of info.nico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
Talking about misleading people
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Bloody hellBig_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.0 -
No wonder people are disengaging, this has been little more than a shouting match.nichomar said:
I gave up the so called moderator seemed determined to shoot them all down with her views and allowed panelists to make claims against others without them getting a right of reply.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:This #bbcqt gives the lie to the notion that Angela Rayner is a serious leadership candidate.
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On the contrary...AramintaMoonbeamQC said:This #bbcqt gives the lie to the notion that Angela Rayner is a serious leadership candidate.
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As best I can tell China wants to erase any trace of Muslimness from the Uighurs. It seems to be equating Islam with extremism, at least judging by its public statements. That seems pretty Islamophobic to me.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
But yes you are right that China is both able and willing to use very extreme measures to eliminate any sort of opposition.
At some point I think that sort of ruthless power will be used outside China.
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Uber for Chuka...?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?2 -
Of course the west is getting weaker, part of that is natural but part of it is accelerated through Brexit and Trump. Putin cant have imagined his strategy of sowing division in the west would have been anywhere near as successful as it has been.DavidL said:There was a horrific story in the ST about our government’s attempts to hush up murders by Putin’s henchmen on our soil. This pathetic weakness is of a piece with our cowardice about China. The west is weak and getting weaker. With China I fear it is too late.
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I honestly think if it was all a lie, the hospital would have said something by now. They look just as bad as the government in all of this.Stereotomy said:
And if it stands up to the bare minimum of verificationBig_G_NorthWales said:
It will only go anywhere if the media want it tooFrancisUrquhart said:
I am not touching a twitter account with 70 followers with a barge-pole for any kind of info.nico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
Talking about misleading people
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The lies unraveled in record time.0 -
AbsolutelyStereotomy said:
And if it stands up to the bare minimum of verificationBig_G_NorthWales said:
It will only go anywhere if the media want it tooFrancisUrquhart said:
I am not touching a twitter account with 70 followers with a barge-pole for any kind of info.nico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
Talking about misleading people
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The lies unraveled in record time.0 -
An Uber....Chuka doesn't travel in Ubers...far too common. You don't know what some oik has left on the seats and might ruin one of his fancy suits.RochdalePioneers said:
Uber for Chuka...?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?0 -
Excellent article, Cyclefree.
On topic, the West as a whole should increasingly coordinate its foreign and security policy multilaterally amongst like-minded countries, and in the first instance use that to keep China (and others like it) out of South American and Africa. It should also start to form closer bonds with India, which has its own challenges but is at least sympathetic to democratic values.
The West is still a powerful force if properly led and coordinated with hard and soft power. But not even the US is powerful enough anymore to contain China on its own.0 -
Excellent. Fuck phonegate!Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?
Yep. Terror of Corbyn will keep both those seats in the blue camp.
The ST business section this weekend was instructive in that.0 -
Lord Umunna. In a couple of monthsFrancisUrquhart said:
An Uber....Chuka doesn't travel in Ubers...far too common. You don't know what some oik has left on the seats and might ruin one of his fancy suits.RochdalePioneers said:
Uber for Chuka...?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?0 -
That Cities poll is much like the Yougov MRP only with an improvement for the Tories. Hopefully more of the same tomorrow.
Though obviously the Tories will lose 20% off their total because of an incident in a hospital
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Great header again Cyclefree, thanks.
China seems to be on a long upwards trajectory in terms of world power. Sadly the precedents for getting powers that are on the rise to treat minorites fairly are very poor.
The Spanish in South America, Britain and its empire, the USA and Native Americans are just a few of the terrible examples that spring to mind.
The West should not turn a blind eye though.0 -
of Swindon.RochdalePioneers said:
Lord Umunna. In a couple of monthsFrancisUrquhart said:
An Uber....Chuka doesn't travel in Ubers...far too common. You don't know what some oik has left on the seats and might ruin one of his fancy suits.RochdalePioneers said:
Uber for Chuka...?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?0 -
Eh? Everybody knows that seeing the prime minister put a phone in his pocket and then take it out again and look at it immediately turns you into a communist...Brom said:That Cities poll is much like the Yougov MRP only with an improvement for the Tories. Hopefully more of the same tomorrow.
Though obviously the Tories will lose 20% off their total because of an incident in a hospital0 -
Now I hate Trump a lot more than most people, but I'm not sure he has had such a large effect in that regard as people say he has, because China has been pursuing technological independence and native production for a long time. What we are seeing is that the capital and other resource investment over the last couple of decades in sectors like semiconductors, telecoms, aviation, and military equipment is now bearing fruit. What Trump unquestionably has done though, is to confirm in Chinese minds the necessity of such policy goals.Nigelb said:
Quite. So far, the most significant effect of Trump’s actions has been to greatly accelerate the speed at which China is developing domestic alternatives to the technology sectors in which it still relies on the West.mwadams said:I think perhaps the US leader is not even challenging China for economic gain.
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Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.0 -
If Labour voters aren't willing to tactically vote for the Lib Dems to stop the Tories in London, that's up to them I guess.0
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We should stop buying crap period but, if we are to buy crap, we should stop buying crap from China.Benpointer said:Great header again Cyclefree, thanks.
China seems to be on a long upwards trajectory in terms of world power. Sadly the precedents for getting powers that are on the rise to treat minorites fairly are very poor. The Spanish in South America, Britain and its empire, the USA and Native Americans are just a few of the terrible exapmles that spring to mind.
The West should not turn a blind eye though.
Western policy should reorientate to seek the overthrow of “communism” and the establishment of democratic government in a China as its primary purpose, IMHO.
Hong Kong and Taiwan (and TS in 1989) shows the idea that democracy doesn’t suit the Chinese people to be utter horseshit.1 -
It is perhaps worth pointing out that the Chinese government regards all religious affiliation with deep suspicion - including Buddhism, which is hardly a typical religion. That’s partly a legacy of communism, and also I think their belief that being religious is un-Chinese.Cyclefree said:
As best I can tell China wants to erase any trace of Muslimness from the Uighurs. It seems to be equating Islam with extremism, at least judging by its public statements. That seems pretty Islamophobic to me.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
But yes you are right that China is both able and willing to use very extreme measures to eliminate any sort of opposition.
At some point I think that sort of ruthless power will be used outside China.
Such cultural revolutions are nothing new under the Maoists, of course.0 -
Throughout history hasn't China traditionally looked down on other countries and cultures ?Cyclefree said:
As best I can tell China wants to erase any trace of Muslimness from the Uighurs. It seems to be equating Islam with extremism, at least judging by its public statements. That seems pretty Islamophobic to me.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
But yes you are right that China is both able and willing to use very extreme measures to eliminate any sort of opposition.
At some point I think that sort of ruthless power will be used outside China.
And their new economic power now allows them to do so again.
But with over a century of resentments added.0 -
Glad to see you come out for international co-operation on foreign and security policy. Why not add economic and trade policy too...Casino_Royale said:Excellent article, Cyclefree.
On topic, the West as a whole should increasingly coordinate its foreign and security policy multilaterally amongst like-minded countries, and in the first instance use that to keep China (and others like it) out of South American and Africa. It should also start to form closer bonds with India, which has its own challenges but is at least sympathetic to democratic values.
The West is still a powerful force if properly led and coordinated with hard and soft power. But not even the US is powerful enough anymore to contain China on its own. 0 -
An excellent article. The use of concentration camps in China right now should be the biggest topic on the news. It is an outrage and the focus of editors to look at entertainment value rather than importance means a million Uighurs are being abandoned in thought and practice. We should all remember Dr King's maxim, "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere".
What to do is obviously a thornier question. One of the problems we face in these situations is that the only ones that can replace the Chinese dictatorship is the Chinese people themselves. So we need to have them view their own autocratic government as the enemy. This is difficult to do when we stand up for minorities and people's natural tribalism makes them take the side of their own government against the minority.
The correct response is for Western governments to focus on our common humanity rather than abstract criticisms. Do not speak about "human rights abuses", speak about individual stories of organ harvesting, torture and starvation. Don't use language about Chinese abuse of Uighurs, frame it as one part of Beijing's oppression of the Chinese people overall. Don't lecture them about "minority protections", spread photos like this one:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/dsylqp/picture_of_a_political_prisoner_in_one_of_chinas/0 -
Thanks for the header, Cyclefree2 (new and even more improved?)0
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Kensington returns to the fold!Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.0 -
This is what the scoreboard will look like over the course of the night if current YouGov MRP is correct (ordered by expected declarations).
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The oppression of Altishahr is another level than Tibet.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
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Bye, Chukka!Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?0 -
Like Sean Connery returning as James Bond in "Never Say Never Again", the magic has gone.HaroldO said:Another view on the Bristol rally, it's not Brum 2017;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/corbyn-plays-all-the-old-favourites-in-bristol-but-no-ones-dancing
The two years since 2017 have taken their toll. Corby looks old, and tired, and listless. The stench of antisemitism clings to him, rightly or wrongly.
Corby will walk off the stage in three days time.
For the last time. The magic show is over.0 -
Is the x-axis time of night?FrancisUrquhart said:This is what the scoreboard will look like over the course of the night if current YouGov MRP is correct (ordered by expected declarations).
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All 3 of those look in the bag for the Tories. I always knew Boris was more popular in London than a lot of folk make out.KentRising said:
Bye, Chukka!Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?0 -
I think it is more about people being "good" Chinese rather than a specific problem with Muslims. Their treatment of the Falun Gong which is linked to Buddhism has been very similar. Any ideology that goes mainsteam and is not controlled by the state is clamped down on very hard.Cyclefree said:
As best I can tell China wants to erase any trace of Muslimness from the Uighurs. It seems to be equating Islam with extremism, at least judging by its public statements. That seems pretty Islamophobic to me.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
But yes you are right that China is both able and willing to use very extreme measures to eliminate any sort of opposition.
At some point I think that sort of ruthless power will be used outside China.0 -
Today's most striking statistic is that SUVs are outselling electric vehicles 37 to 1 !0
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Clearly the boy was not forced to sleep on the floor, there isn't a hospital in the land that would force that. However there clearly was no bed for him either, so why was he on the floor rather than sitting in a chair or on a trolley or being held or on a lap? It's irrelevant as the image is now out there.FrancisUrquhart said:
I honestly think if it was all a lie, the hospital would have said something by now. They look just as bad as the government in all of this.Stereotomy said:
And if it stands up to the bare minimum of verificationBig_G_NorthWales said:
It will only go anywhere if the media want it tooFrancisUrquhart said:
I am not touching a twitter account with 70 followers with a barge-pole for any kind of info.nico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
Talking about misleading people
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The lies unraveled in record time.0 -
YouGov MRP had it Tories 40%, Labour 28%, LDs 27% in Cities of London and Westminster, so on this poll Chuka has at least moved into second. The Tories now favourites in Cities of London and Westminster but only on 44% while the LDs and Labour combined are on 54%, so if Chuka can squeeze that Labour vote right down with tactical voting he has a chance still, same with Luciana Berger in Finchley where the LDs are also now second.Brom said:That Cities poll is much like the Yougov MRP only with an improvement for the Tories. Hopefully more of the same tomorrow.
Though obviously the Tories will lose 20% off their total because of an incident in a hospital
https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2019/0 -
I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.3 -
Yes. I guess I could convert it to actual time.Gabs3 said:
Is the x-axis time of night?FrancisUrquhart said:This is what the scoreboard will look like over the course of the night if current YouGov MRP is correct (ordered by expected declarations).
0 -
All three London constituency polls good for the conservatives and this before George Osborne's endorsement in the Evening Standard todayRobD said:
Kensington returns to the fold!Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Gyimah collapsed to third, looks like Felicity Buchan will gain Kensington back for the Tories0 -
So if Sunderland Central is a Con gain all bets are off?FrancisUrquhart said:This is what the scoreboard will look like over the course of the night if current YouGov MRP is correct (ordered by expected declarations).
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I am still Cyclefree. The one and only original. On Twitter I am @Cyclefree2. (There is no Cyclefree1 - it was probably my ineptness at joining Twitter that led me to type 2 rather than 1.RobD said:Thanks for the header, Cyclefree2 (new and even more improved?)
I am a bit bored with this election, TBH. Seems to have been going on since June. There is a world out there ......0 -
Seats declared I thinkGabs3 said:
Is the x-axis time of night?FrancisUrquhart said:This is what the scoreboard will look like over the course of the night if current YouGov MRP is correct (ordered by expected declarations).
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Christians and Falun Gong practitioners have been persecuted too, though rarely as systematically as the Uigars.ydoethur said:
It is perhaps worth pointing out that the Chinese government regards all religious affiliation with deep suspicion - including Buddhism, which is hardly a typical religion. That’s partly a legacy of communism, and also I think their belief that being religious is un-Chinese.Cyclefree said:
As best I can tell China wants to erase any trace of Muslimness from the Uighurs. It seems to be equating Islam with extremism, at least judging by its public statements. That seems pretty Islamophobic to me.MarqueeMark said:Is it Islamophobia though? Isn't it just the State using extreme measures because it can - the same State that is erasing Tibet and subsuming its separateness into a monolithic China?
But yes you are right that China is both able and willing to use very extreme measures to eliminate any sort of opposition.
At some point I think that sort of ruthless power will be used outside China.
Such cultural revolutions are nothing new under the Maoists, of course.0 -
It wasn’t exactly Woodstock. It wasn’t even Birmingham 2017. Back then nearly 10,000 people had turned up to hear Clean Bandit and Steve Coogan appear as warm-up acts for Jeremy Corbyn in the final days of the election campaign. On College Green in Bristol, sandwiched between the cathedral and the town hall, barely a couple of thousand – mostly students – showed up for the start of the Labour leader’s series of whirlwind national rallies.
Corbyn had hoped Bristol might mark the first gig of The Comeback Tour. It felt more like The Long Goodbye. It wasn’t just the audience and the warmth of a summer’s evening that were missing. It was the energy and the enthusiasm. Two years ago, there had been a sense of hope. A feeling that change was possible. Now there was just weariness, a weight of resignation. A commitment to a cause that already felt lost. The crowd had turned up as much to keep the faith with themselves as with their leader.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/corbyn-plays-all-the-old-favourites-in-bristol-but-no-ones-dancing
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On a personal level a Tory government would be beneficial. Albeit not as beneficial as when Johnson was offering me £££. Thats hardly the point though. That boy on the floor of the hospital is the Good Times we can look forward to under a Johnson majority.
What a shame that Labour are unelectable and soon bankrupt.0 -
With the positive information on Scotland, Wales and now London for the conservatives a majority must be beckoning irrespective of todays controversy0
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They are probably under instruction to say nothing under purdah rulesFrancisUrquhart said:
I honestly think if it was all a lie, the hospital would have said something by now. They look just as bad as the government in all of this.Stereotomy said:
And if it stands up to the bare minimum of verificationBig_G_NorthWales said:
It will only go anywhere if the media want it tooFrancisUrquhart said:
I am not touching a twitter account with 70 followers with a barge-pole for any kind of info.nico67 said:
The hospital has had all day to salvage its reputation. Surely if that tweet was correct they would have said so and given an account of what really happened .funkhauser said:
Silver Srfr
@SrfrSilver
15m15 minutes ago
Replying to @RemainerTony @PippaCrerar @bbclaurak
Talking about misleading people
1 reply1 retweet0 likes
Reply 1
Retweet 1
Like
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The lies unraveled in record time.0 -
I am not sure GO's endorsement will help though tbf.Big_G_NorthWales said:
All three London constituency polls good for the conservatives and this before George Osborne's endorsement in the Evening Standard todayRobD said:
Kensington returns to the fold!Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov. 0 -
If they do, I think it will be despite Boris, because of Brexit and Corbyn.Big_G_NorthWales said:With the positive information on Scotland, Wales and now London for the conservatives a majority must be beckoning irrespective of todays controversy
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Trump stood up to China on Hong Kong and the US is the only world power capable of standing up to the Chinese on equal terms, that goes for the Uighurs too0
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He is overrated Id agree, might make quite a good Foreign secretary, not sure Id want him in the other senior roles.Casino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.0 -
So you started out new and improved?Cyclefree said:
I am still Cyclefree. The one and only original. On Twitter I am @Cyclefree2. (There is no Cyclefree1 - it was probably my ineptness at joining Twitter that led me to type 2 rather than 1.RobD said:Thanks for the header, Cyclefree2 (new and even more improved?)
I am a bit bored with this election, TBH. Seems to have been going on since June. There is a world out there ......
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I had thought that the rally was scheduled for 1.30. Press and police seemed to think Corbyn would turn up at 2.00. It must have been closer to 2.30 when he finally rolled up, after talking to TV and radio reporters.HaroldO said:Another view on the Bristol rally, it's not Brum 2017;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/09/corbyn-plays-all-the-old-favourites-in-bristol-but-no-ones-dancing
It was bloody cold.0 -
Look on the bright side. At least pensioners won't be getting £0.75p a week rise.RochdalePioneers said:On a personal level a Tory government would be beneficial. Albeit not as beneficial as when Johnson was offering me £££. Thats hardly the point though. That boy on the floor of the hospital is the Good Times we can look forward to under a Johnson majority.
What a shame that Labour are unelectable and soon bankrupt.0 -
Well YouGov Wales plus those three constituency polls look absolutely fantastic for Con.
ICM and Remain United ComRes not great, but consistent with prior equivalent polls.
Overall a pretty good polling day for Con.
But they've drifted quite a bit on Betfair - presumably because of the phone incident.0 -
Since we're doing religion tonight, this is what happened in France 114 years ago today:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_French_law_on_the_Separation_of_the_Churches_and_the_State0 -
I have posted on here a few times. I met him a few years ago, and he came across as the worst kind of slippery politician.Casino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.0 -
You are correct. Obviously there is no way under Labour or the Lib Dems that would happen. Everyone would live in mansions, work 2 day weeks, ride unicorns and 14 year olds could sit in the European Parliament.RochdalePioneers said:On a personal level a Tory government would be beneficial. Albeit not as beneficial as when Johnson was offering me £££. Thats hardly the point though. That boy on the floor of the hospital is the Good Times we can look forward to under a Johnson majority.
What a shame that Labour are unelectable and soon bankrupt.
Hospitals need improving, but it’s been this way a long, long time and as Wales shows it is not a problem any specific ruling government will easily fix.0 -
Oh sure. But its always an amazing suit. And he is pretty...Casino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.0 -
The Londpon polls are very useful as they reduce the numer of gains needed elsewhere. I would have liked to see more polls from the 'red wall' areas.0
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I agree. It’s HY who keeps ramping him as the next Macron. He seems to have a weakness for politicians who are all hat and no cattle.Casino_Royale said:I know many others on this forum disagree but I think Chuka is shite. He can string a sentence together, and people think he’s got the look and feel of a British Obama, but he jumps around from party to party like a five-year old at a birthday buffet. He doesn’t seem to have anything to say other than utter banalities.
Empty suit.3 -
Yes, all 3 have edged very nicely in the Tory direction just at the right time, quite apart from the North and Midlands.Big_G_NorthWales said:With the positive information on Scotland, Wales and now London for the conservatives a majority must be beckoning irrespective of todays controversy
Two campaigning days to go...0 -
44 out of 71 years the NHS has been under a tory government. At what point are you going to realise that they have no intention of killing it off.RochdalePioneers said:On a personal level a Tory government would be beneficial. Albeit not as beneficial as when Johnson was offering me £££. Thats hardly the point though. That boy on the floor of the hospital is the Good Times we can look forward to under a Johnson majority.
What a shame that Labour are unelectable and soon bankrupt.
Brown and Blair privatised more of the NHS than all other tory governments combined. The NHS should fear Labour more than anything else.1 -
RochdalePioneers said:
Lord Umunna. In a couple of monthsFrancisUrquhart said:
An Uber....Chuka doesn't travel in Ubers...far too common. You don't know what some oik has left on the seats and might ruin one of his fancy suits.RochdalePioneers said:
Uber for Chuka...?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?
At present new peerages are greatly reduced in an effort to get the bloated numbers down & then capped at 600.
Chuka may be out of luck.0 -
Vote for Boris or - Project Fear?Benpointer said:
I am not sure GO's endorsement will help though tbf.Big_G_NorthWales said:
All three London constituency polls good for the conservatives and this before George Osborne's endorsement in the Evening Standard todayRobD said:
Kensington returns to the fold!Big_G_NorthWales said:Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.0 -
Any news on what's happening with Ms Soubry in Broxtowe?Big_G_NorthWales said:Cities of London & Westminster Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 44% (+5)
LDM: 28% (-5)
LAB: 26% (=)
GRN: 1% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Finchley & Golders Green Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 46% (=)
LDM: 34% (+2)
LAB 19% (=)
Via @DeltapollUK, 3-6 Dec.
Changes w/ 14-21 Nov.
Kensington Constituency Voting Intention:
CON: 39% (+3)
LAB: 29% (+2)
LDM: 27% (-6)
GRN: 2% (=)
BXP: 2% (New)
Via @DeltapollUK, 4-8 Dec.
Changes w/ 7-13 Nov.
Conservative remainers drifting back over fear of Corbyn ?
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Thoughtful article @Cyclefree on a darker aspect of China's politics.0
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The trade war has had a very large effect indeed.glw said:
Now I hate Trump a lot more than most people, but I'm not sure he has had such a large effect in that regard as people say he has, because China has been pursuing technological independence and native production for a long time. What we are seeing is that the capital and other resource investment over the last couple of decades in sectors like semiconductors, telecoms, aviation, and military equipment is now bearing fruit. What Trump unquestionably has done though, is to confirm in Chinese minds the necessity of such policy goals.Nigelb said:
Quite. So far, the most significant effect of Trump’s actions has been to greatly accelerate the speed at which China is developing domestic alternatives to the technology sectors in which it still relies on the West.mwadams said:I think perhaps the US leader is not even challenging China for economic gain.
Sure, these were long term Chinese goals - but it has now become a crash development program (note today’s announcement of a ban on the use of overseas hardware and software by 2020).
What was a worldwide collaborative system of tech development is in danger of becoming two separate competing systems. And given how much of the ‘West’s’ technology is situated in China’s backyard (Taiwan and S. Korea), we are in a potentially precarious position.0 -
Agreed, but it’s probably a good thing for the Tories if they keep Labour guessing about the scale of their advance and the whereabouts.felix said:The Londpon polls are very useful as they reduce the numer of gains needed elsewhere. I would have liked to see more polls from the 'red wall' areas.
Pretty much all the recent constituency polls have been on the money or underestimated the Tory vote share compared to the MRP which bodes well.
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