I find it strange they would have a debate about climate change. Brexit maybe but it’s quite a niche issue and isn’t top of public priorities. Very Channel 4.
I also think it was strange Stanley was there but Gove is environment minister, it’s poor form not to let him take part when some Plaid Cymru Guy is allowed on
They allowed a sub for the leader of Plaid Cymru but not the Tories? That has got to be against the rules.
It’s an election - is pitiful behaviour. Gove however should have been allowed in, on the same basis as Rudd who subbed for the last Tory leader too frightened to appear on tv.
This point is being borne out by the discussion I am watching (in between playing scrabble). Sian Berry is not a great speaker but she has a grasp of detail that is giving her a definite edge in this debate.
The answer to that, is have it between specialists. Much more useful and informative. And is Gove a specialist anyway?
My son is in the biz and he rates Gove, but this is a Leaders debate, so specialist substitutes not really an option.
Well, who has the right to stipulate both that it's a Leaders debate and what the subject is? What's to stop them having a [shadow] CotE debate about New York fusion jazz clubs of the '50s and early '60s?
Nothing at all, but if it is a Leaders debate a non-Leader is invited on it has to be with the consent of the others. They refused, so that's that. Them's the rules.
Please d, where does epresentatives? That's completely inappropriate.
Leaders debate. The clue is in the title.
The Gove thing was a try on. Didn't work. It's no big deal.
It's top Tory trolling. The next few hours will be spent discussing this instead of any good ideas/policies that came out of the debate.
Tories threatening C4 licence. Getting more like N Korea by the minute. Some PB Tories know right from wrong some dont
I don't think that insisting everybody abides by the rules designed to ensure fair and free elections, is what happens in North Korea.
Apparently, going home to Poland. Edit - incidentally I thought the poster who talked about this was making a rather bold claim when he said Poles 'are less well educated than the Italians.' That isn't my experience of them at all. Indeed, rather the reverse.
I find it strange they would have a debate about climate change. Brexit maybe but it’s quite a niche issue and isn’t top of public priorities. Very Channel 4.
I also think it was strange Stanley was there but Gove is environment minister, it’s poor form not to let him take part when some Plaid Cymru Guy is allowed on
They allowed a sub for the leader of Plaid Cymru but not the Tories? That has got to be against the rules.
It’s an election - is pitiful behaviour. Gove however should have been allowed in, on the same basis as Rudd who subbed for the last Tory leader too frightened to appear on tv.
Thisbetween specialists. Much more useful and informative. And is Gove a specialist anyway?
My son is in the biz and he rates Gove, but this is a Leaders debate, so specialist substitutes not really an option.
Well, who has the right to stipulate both that it's a Leaders debate and what the subject is? What's to stop them having a [shadow] CotE debate about New York fusion jazz clubs of the '50s and early '60s?
Nothing at all, but if it is a Leaders debate a non-Leader is invited on it has to be with the consent of the others. They refused, so that's that. Them's the rules.
Please d, where does epresentatives? That's completely inappropriate.
Leaders debate. The clue is in the title.
The Gove thing was a try on. Didn't work. It's no big deal.
It's top Tory trolling. The next few hours will be spent discussing this instead of any good ideas/policies that came out of the debate.
Tories threatening C4 licence. Getting more like N Korea by the minute. Some PB Tories know right from wrong some dont
I don't think that insisting everybody abides by the rules designed to ensure fair and free elections, is what happens in North Korea.
Threatening the licence of C4 is though
Let's not call it that.
Let's call it "Democratising the broadcast media".
Don't you dare disrespect Cambridge, which held the title Best university anywhere in the world in a place called Cambridge from 1209 to 1636, still an unrivalled record, and still ranks probably 4th or 5th by the same metric, depending how you define university. A national treasure by any standard.
Just compare the number of number of Nobel Laureates Cambridge has produced compared to the pitiful number the dump has.
And Diane Abbott!
Let's not forget Blunt, Burgess, Maclean and Philby
And your reaction proves it. The demographic being targeted this time by the Blues will not give a toss. Farage and Johnson ridiculed by a left-wing broadcaster on an issue, which although important, is not a vital voting matter for the overwhelming majority of people. I'm sure your average "working class" Brexiteer in the Midlands will be outraged. Lol.
Indeed.
The vast majority of the voters the Conservatives are targeting with think well done if they even notice the spat between the Conservatives and Channel "Fuck The Tories" 4.
Oh I see. You're thinking I'm referring to the Climate debate. Well, I've news. I'm referring to every single day of this campaign. They are absolutely f-ing useless. They've learned nothing from last time. Johnson looks like a fish out of water. They have no ideas on anything at all, except getting Brexit done, which is beginning to look like the last gasp of a dying man in the Sahara.
Interesting view. Of course it might be that whilst Labour are firing off promises of free everything to everyone the Tories are happy not to compete with them on that basis and instead focus on getting Brexit done and spending a bit more on public services. It's not the Tories who are changing their election strategy at this late stage on the back of unfavourable private polling.
This debate has been billed and trailed for ages; why are the Tories scrabbling about trying to send a substitute at the last minute, anyway?
My guess is that they knew it was a leaders-only gig and sending Gove along was itself a stunt to deflect attention from Bozo’s frittery.
Well, so what? There is no constitutional rule saying that Channel 4 has the absolute right to summon party leaders to its studios. And if you think that's a partisan point, just consider how far Tony Blair would - quite rightly - have invited these people to fuck off.
No, but I think they have the right to hold a leaders’ debate, and if a leader doesn’t want to show up...
...they are obliged by Ofcom rules either to accept a reasonable substitute in the interest of impartiality, or to cancel the debate. I understand your reluctance to finish your own sentence.
No, they aren’t. If the BBC can actually exclude leaders from a leaders debate, refusing stunt doubles for one barely even registers.
Don't you dare disrespect Cambridge, which held the title Best university anywhere in the world in a place called Cambridge from 1209 to 1636, still an unrivalled record, and still ranks probably 4th or 5th by the same metric, depending how you define university. A national treasure by any standard.
Just compare the number of number of Nobel Laureates Cambridge has produced compared to the pitiful number the dump has.
And Diane Abbott!
Let's not forget Blunt, Burgess, Maclean and Philby
Stanley Baldwin, General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett...
Don't you dare disrespect Cambridge, which held the title Best university anywhere in the world in a place called Cambridge from 1209 to 1636, still an unrivalled record, and still ranks probably 4th or 5th by the same metric, depending how you define university. A national treasure by any standard.
Just compare the number of number of Nobel Laureates Cambridge has produced compared to the pitiful number the dump has.
And Diane Abbott!
Let's not forget Blunt, Burgess, Maclean and Philby
O/T But when I hear of carers work being “Low skilled” it boils my piss. If it is being treated as such then that is not just snobbery from middle class twats who think a degree in some old shite that nobody gives a fuck about makes them an elite, it is also showing a lack of respect to those who need the care and not just those who do the job and should be receiving training that enables them to do their jobs as well as they can and should be paid a decent wage for a job which most of the David Brent-a-like cunts who look down on them could never do.
This debate has been billed and trailed for ages; why are the Tories scrabbling about trying to send a substitute at the last minute, anyway?
My guess is that they knew it was a leaders-only gig and sending Gove along was itself a stunt to deflect attention from Bozo’s frittery.
Well, so what? There is no constitutional rule saying that Channel 4 has the absolute right to summon party leaders to its studios. And if you think that's a partisan point, just consider how far Tony Blair would - quite rightly - have invited these people to fuck off.
No, but I think they have the right to hold a leaders’ debate, and if a leader doesn’t want to show up...
...they are obliged by Ofcom rules either to accept a reasonable substitute in the interest of impartiality, or to cancel the debate. I understand your reluctance to finish your own sentence.
No, they aren’t. If the BBC can actually exclude leaders from a leaders debate, refusing stunt doubles for one barely even registers.
I think that was a potential PMs debate. Who was excluded?
Some big party leaders made him do it, and ran away. So explain the ice statue, did they say they were going to take their footballs home unless there was an ice statue?
How easy is it to obtain an ice sculpture at short notice?
Some big party leaders made him do it, and ran away. So explain the ice statue, did they say they were going to take their footballs home unless there was an ice statue?
How easy is it to obtain an ice sculpture at short notice?
This debate has been billed and trailed for ages; why are the Tories scrabbling about trying to send a substitute at the last minute, anyway?
My guess is that they knew it was a leaders-only gig and sending Gove along was itself a stunt to deflect attention from Bozo’s frittery.
Well, so what? There is no constitutional rule saying that Channel 4 has the absolute right to summon party leaders to its studios. And if you think that's a partisan point, just consider how far Tony Blair would - quite rightly - have invited these people to fuck off.
No, but I think they have the right to hold a leaders’ debate, and if a leader doesn’t want to show up...
...they are obliged by Ofcom rules either to accept a reasonable substitute in the interest of impartiality, or to cancel the debate. I understand your reluctance to finish your own sentence.
No, they aren’t. If the BBC can actually exclude leaders from a leaders debate, refusing stunt doubles for one barely even registers.
I think that was a potential PMs debate. Who was excluded?
Should a national broadcaster be making that kind of political judgment ? This was a leaders’ debate, and no leader was excluded.
So we should have rules to protect democracy, but breaches of them should have no adverse consequences?
C4 holds leaders debate Brave Sir Boris ran away Then got his henchmen to tell C4 if they empty chair him with a melting ice statue their licence is under threat. N Korea
So we should have rules to protect democracy, but breaches of them should have no adverse consequences?
C4 holds leaders debate Brave Sir Boris ran away Then got his henchmen to tell C4 if they empty chair him with a melting ice statue their licence is under threat. N Korea
Just struck me. The board has become a lot more "Tory" and Brexity as the inevitability of them both triumphing has become clear. Where is @williamglenn Where is @Scott_P Where is the mighty @Noo ??
I'm back! I wasn't able to log in and the password reset didn't work so I gave up, but just tried again and was finally able to restore access.
So we should have rules to protect democracy, but breaches of them should have no adverse consequences?
I don’t remember you making this kind of fuss about the Corbyn/Johnson debate ?
Exactly as I said 2 categories of PB Tories
Category 1 knows right from wrong.
Same applies to PB lefties. The category that knows right from wrong knows that hugely increasing government borrowing to bung Waspi's like Sarah Ferguson, Emma Thompson, Teresa May and Diane Abbott thousands of pounds is wrong.
Just struck me. The board has become a lot more "Tory" and Brexity as the inevitability of them both triumphing has become clear. Where is @williamglenn Where is @Scott_P Where is the mighty @Noo ??
I'm back! I wasn't able to log in and the password reset didn't work so I gave up, but just tried again and was finally able to restore access.
Don't you dare disrespect Cambridge, which held the title Best university anywhere in the world in a place called Cambridge from 1209 to 1636, still an unrivalled record, and still ranks probably 4th or 5th by the same metric, depending how you define university. A national treasure by any standard.
Just compare the number of number of Nobel Laureates Cambridge has produced compared to the pitiful number the dump has.
And Diane Abbott!
Let's not forget Blunt, Burgess, Maclean and Philby
Apparently, going home to Poland. Edit - incidentally I thought the poster who talked about this was making a rather bold claim when he said Poles 'are less well educated than the Italians.' That isn't my experience of them at all. Indeed, rather the reverse.
Its a sterotypical view but sterotypes have influence.
Italians tend to be viewed as sophisticated, cultural types good at design, sports cars and food in sunny climes
While Poles are viewed as hardworking peasants and cannon fodder on endless plains.
Romanians are merely the backward lot preyed upon by Count Dracula.
So no 10 is going to draw attention to the fact Bozo couldn’t be arsed to turn upto a debate about climate change by making a complaint to Ofcom.
Not sure Bozos puppetmaster Cummings has war gamed this correctly .
"debate about climate change".
Most people will not care.
A lot of people do care about climate change . The fact Bozo has now gone all Trumpian and threatening Channel 4 isn’t a good look .
I care about Climate Change. For that reason, I consider it essential that the debate should include the government minister who has been responsible for dealing with that area of policy.
To refuse to allow that person into the debate means that the broadcaster is not interested in Climate Change. They are only interested in personalities & squabbles.
It’s also utterly inappropriate for Channel 4 to pull a stunt like that in the middle of an election
Or Boris could have just turned up?
What should he have to go to London when he can spend his time more productively elsewhere
Spending time threatening C4 licence is not productive time during a GE
Who knows how senior this “source” is? It’s not even a “senior source”. Could just be the intern. And the current license expires in 2024 so it’s likely any incoming government will review it
It’s also utterly inappropriate for Channel 4 to pull a stunt like that in the middle of an election
Or Boris could have just turned up?
What should he have to go to London when he can spend his time more productively elsewhere
Spending time threatening C4 licence is not productive time during a GE
Who knows how senior this “source” is? It’s not even a “senior source”. Could just be the intern. And the current license expires in 2024 so it’s likely any incoming government will review it
It’s also utterly inappropriate for Channel 4 to pull a stunt like that in the middle of an election
Or Boris could have just turned up?
What should he have to go to London when he can spend his time more productively elsewhere
Spending time threatening C4 licence is not productive time during a GE
Who knows how senior this “source” is? It’s not even a “senior source”. Could just be the intern. And the current license expires in 2024 so it’s likely any incoming government will review it
Does it sound like a threat?
Yes. But that only matters if it is from a relevant source.
Despite this debate being awful - did I hear Corbyn correctly? He's going to force homeowners to take on an interest free loan to make their homes more eco-friendly?
Click on the link, which I will admit I added in an edit.
Thanks just had a quick read.
What could possibly go wrong with doing enforced work on 27m households? How on earth are you going to measure the “savings” to pay the loan? More bonds for squillions being issued I guess from the back of Corbyn’s sofa to “invest@ ( not debt no siree). It’s a con man’s Christmas. Where’s the capacity to do it? Who judges what needs doing and has it been done to standard? What if ten million of us roundly tell them to piss off you’re not coming in? That’ll be a legal bunfight.
I could go on.
And how many will claim the money and not actually have any work done.
Well, that's easy. Nobody, because it's lending on bad terms. You have to pay it back - the idea is the savings on heating bills outweigh the costs.
I know what the idea is. It’s not lending on bad terms if you don’t spend it on the stated purpose though! Probably a lot better than you could obtain commercially! And that’s before you get into “homeowners” who abscond with the cash...
There’s a germ of a good idea in this, but improvements should be targeted at the sort of housing that is suitable for standardisation and mass production.
Have a look at the Dutch Energiesprong system - IIRC, they hoped to get the target cost down to 40,000 Euros a house ( this was perhaps two years ago) so energy savings would pay for itself in 30 years. The works took 3-4 weeks on site.
Comments
Edit - incidentally I thought the poster who talked about this was making a rather bold claim when he said Poles 'are less well educated than the Italians.' That isn't my experience of them at all. Indeed, rather the reverse.
Now Oxford was a nest of traitors.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5434139/Oxford-traitor-spied-Russia-revealed.html
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/dreaming-spies-the-inside-story-of-the-kgb-at-oxford
Brave Sir Boris ran away
Then got his henchmen to tell C4 if they empty chair him with a melting ice statue their licence is under threat.
N Korea
This was a leaders’ debate, and no leader was excluded.
Category 1 knows right from wrong.
Not sure Bozos puppetmaster Cummings has war gamed this correctly .
Most people will not care.
Pause.
Ah, my coat...
Good night.
Italians tend to be viewed as sophisticated, cultural types good at design, sports cars and food in sunny climes
While Poles are viewed as hardworking peasants and cannon fodder on endless plains.
Romanians are merely the backward lot preyed upon by Count Dracula.
If Boris was gunning for the eco-socialist vote, or Islington dinner party goatee-strokers then I would agree with you.
Do you really think a plumber, or a builder, or a beauty therapist from Droitwich will give a monkey's uncle? Come to that an ex-miner?
To refuse to allow that person into the debate means that the broadcaster is not interested in Climate Change. They are only interested in personalities & squabbles.
Good evening, everybody.
The fact Johnson couldn’t be bothered to turn up and the threat to Channel 4 is now the bigger story than anything that happened at the debate .
For now!!!
And the current license expires in 2024 so it’s likely any incoming government will review it
It's a sort of impulsiveness, but often calculated for brief public effect on core voters, too. Trump-inspired, and not long-lasting.
China & USA 50% of global emissions.The UK a massive 1%.
Have a look at the Dutch Energiesprong system - IIRC, they hoped to get the target cost down to 40,000 Euros a house ( this was perhaps two years ago) so energy savings would pay for itself in 30 years. The works took 3-4 weeks on site.
https://www.cibsejournal.com/case-studies/a-forward-leap-how-dutch-housing-process-energiesprong-guarantees-performance/
The time lapse videos are also quite impressive
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwix372G_43mAhWSr3EKHSx6D_oQwqsBMAB6BAgJEAQ&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXFjndfX-Io&usg=AOvVaw0BW7aoPgqLvHgfFr-KY9tn