politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Scottish play. Will Wales follow Scotland and abandon Labo

first

3rd like Labour in Scotland on a good day

Could this Scottish seat be a suprise Tory gain?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShonaHaslam/status/1190990809178480640

1) Abandon - no. There will still be multiple Labour MPs in Wales on January 1st. Retreat from - quite possibly.

2) For the umpteenth time, the so-called Remain alliance made no fecking difference in Brecon. It was the collapse of the tribal Labour vote that delivered the seat to the Yellows, which is part of the phenomenon we’re seeing in this poll.

3) further question. My understanding was that the last ScotParl and Sennedd elections were postponed from 2015 to 2016 because of a clash with a general election as the government believed the Celts were too thick to deal with three ballot papers. I thought this was a one-off due to a scheduled GE and in future if there was not a GE scheduled elections would still be held quadrennially. Has this now changed permanently and therefore the next ScotParl and Sennedd elections will be in 2021?

If so, that is when the money should move to a Labour wipeout in Wales.

egg said:

David Lamy. Writing in one of the Mirror Group tabloids today.

“equality has not extended to African soldiers who helped to win the war. There are amazing cemeteries in Kenya and Tanzania with great dedication to British soldiers but not to Africans. They were thrown into unmarked graves, this was policy by Winston Churchill’s government their graves thrown to nature. What was disturbing was the lengths to ensure Africans not buried alongside British soldiers, macabre things like measuring skulls.”

What? Does he actually have history on his side here in his attack on Churchill’s government and the War Graves Commission?

I would have thought any war graves in those countries would relate to the First World War, not the second. Particularly in Tanzania, where AFAIK there was no fighting the Second World War, although around 100,000 Tanzanians served in the Askaris in the desert conflict and India.

So, it should be Lloyd George’s government under attack for that if he’s right. But given the numerous memorials I have seen to Indian soldiers including in this country I am sceptical.

EDIT - having read it, he is talking about the First World War, and Winston Churchill as Secretary of State, so not Churchill’s government. I don’t know enough about the subject to opine either way, but that would as I note above have been somewhat of a contrast with the treatment of Indian soldiers.

I think one point he may be forgetting is that it was comparatively unusual for regiments to serve where they were raised. They would normally be sent to another part of the same continent. Moreover as Tanganyika was a German colony adjoining Rhodesia it was very possible there were not many non-white soldiers there.

In Wales, I think 2019 will be a repeat of 2017, more or less. Though as per the header it was worse than I had remembered.

SandyRentool said:

AndyJS said:

nunu2 said:

Could this Scottish seat be a suprise Tory gain?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShonaHaslam/status/1190990809178480640

Could be if Labour voters put pegs on their nose and vote Tory to stop the SNP.

Any Labour supporters doing that are fecking idiots.

Some people will be unionists before anything else, there's nothing wrong with that anymore than someone being nationalists first. Can't say I'd expect much of it though.

It would help if vanilla could display the threads in time order

YBarddCwsc said:

Labour (probably) will still have most seats after the GE.

To beat them, the Tories have to take all their targets down to Newport East, which means almost everything will have to go right with the Tory campaign, and almost everything wrong with Labour.

The Remain Alliance will have almost zero effect. Only babbling idiots in the South England (who probably cooked the scheme up) could think it would have any effect. LibDem voters and Plaid Cymru voters have almost nothing in common. The Remain alliance definitely will depress the Plaid Cymru vote (which is why the effect is "almost zero" -- the main effect will actually be the opposite of what was intended).

My predictions are the Plaid Cymru will lose Ceredigion to the LibDems; the LibDems will lose Brecon & Radnorshire to the Tories; Labour will lose (at least) Gower, Vale of Clwyd & Wrecsam to the Tories. I think Ynys Mon (internecine 3 way marginal) will change hands, but I am not sure who to.

If Labour escape with 3 losses, they will have dodged at least another 7 bullets.

I still think Bridgend is value, although I know you disagree.

SandyRentool said:

BBC running a story on their website about real people pretending to be 'Boris bots'.

Thank goodness we don't have that problem here on PB...

//"Brilliant Fantastic"&name="Boris"

StuartDickson said:

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

ydoethur said:

malcolmg said:

ydoethur said:

Alistair said:

AndyJS said:

If Tories in Ross, Skye & Lochaber decide to hold their nose and vote LD to get rid of the SNP, it's possible Blackford could lose his seat.

Why would the second place vote for the third place to unseat the incumbent? If it was to happen it would be the most sensational set of swings over the last 3 elections

2010
LibDem 52.6
Con 12.2

2015
LibDem 35.9
Con 6.2

2017
LibDem 20.9
Con 24.8

It would be interesting a bit closer to the election to see a constituency poll for this one. My answer would be that there are probably a number of Conservatives and SNP who are willing to vote Liberal Democrat, but very few Liberal Democrats and still fewer SNP who would be willing to vote Conservative. Therefore the Tories are at their ceiling while the Liberal Democrats - who after all held the seat just five years ago - are not.

But for that to happen it has to become clear that the LibDems are the main challengers again so they can rally a unionist vote behind them.

Hard to see SNP voting LD's given it is an election on Indyref2

That’s precisely why they might do so Malcolm. Is every supporter of the SNP also a supporter of independence? Logic would suggest yes. But it is worth remembering that 3% of Brexit Party supporters are Remainers.

The danger for Sturgeon in making this a single issue election is if there is still a majority against independence there is a risk she will get clobbered by it.

The advantage is she then doesn’t have to talk about the exhausted volcanoes aspect of the SNP’s domestic agenda.

She has to go all out for it , any more delay will be very bad for her. SNP for sure will increase seats, just a case of how many. She will then have to fight Westminster big time.

Which will also be advantageous for her as it means independence will dominate the debate leading up to the Scottish Parliament elections next year (I think I’m right in saying they will be next year, not 2021). And that unquestionably is where she is strong.

It will also remove the focus from domestic weakness on, for example, education or policing.

The next Scottish general election is due to be held on 6 May 2021. Per Scottish Elections (Dates) Act 2016. (Supported IIRC by all parties.)

Thanks. So that means 18 months of arguments about independence to distract from domestic issues.

I assume that applies to Wales as well?

Jonathan said:

Increasingly there are no safe seats. Politics is just too volatile. Maybe not this time, but the joyous day will come when the blues lose their grip on their safe seats.

Perhaps when Labour come to their senses

Going to be a long wait then

YBarddCwsc said:

ydoethur said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

Be fair. Brown was a liar as well.

Not a good one.

Well, no, but you had to admire somebody with the sheer gumption to claim he had never said something there was video footage of him saying 47 times in the Commons alone.

SandyRentool said:

AndyJS said:

nunu2 said:

Could this Scottish seat be a suprise Tory gain?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShonaHaslam/status/1190990809178480640

Could be if Labour voters put pegs on their nose and vote Tory to stop the SNP.

Any Labour supporters doing that are fecking idiots.

Any Labour supporter voting (marxist) Labour are fecking idiots too

ydoethur said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

Be fair. Brown was a liar as well.

A liar and a vicious bully

Floater said:

Jonathan said:

Increasingly there are no safe seats. Politics is just too volatile. Maybe not this time, but the joyous day will come when the blues lose their grip on their safe seats.

Perhaps when Labour come to their senses

Going to be a long wait then

The Tories have held Horsham continuously since 1880, and won it at every General Election since 1868 (interrupted by two by-election defeats).

How’s that for a long wait for change?

I follow the NOM market as an indicator of how the various campaigns are going.

It has shortened this afternoon to 2.02 and Tory Majority has lengthened to 2.2.

Has anything happened today? Is it the BXP ad?

Barnesian said:

I follow the NOM market as an indicator of how the various campaigns are going.

It has shortened this afternoon to 2.02 and Tory Majority has lengthened to 2.2.

Has anything happened today? Is it the BXP ad?

Spreads have nudged up to 324 - 213 though, and probably they'll increase by a seat each day while the polls remain as they are.

JBriskinindyref2 said:

malcolmg said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

"Some people will be unionists before anything else, there's nothing wrong with that anymore than someone being nationalists first. Can't say I'd expect much of it though."

I'd expect tory gains in Scotland - Kezia here telling it like it is.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jeremy-corbyns-indyref2-stance-makes-election-harder-for-scottish-labour-kezia-dugdale/ar-AAJLAKA?ocid=spartanntp

Loons are out in force today, her word is almost as bad as McTernan's.
Was she not going to be FM once , before the Messiah claimed it would be her and was seen off. How many times do these nutters need to be thrashed to understand they are going nowhere.

You benefit from a non-split vote. Nationalists vote SNP but unfortunately for them they'll never get above 50pc in any election or referendum.

That’s rather a bold statement. We all thought that about Leave as well, with the honourable exception of @SouthamObserver.

I would have said the real risk however to the SNP in this election - and one of the reasons they are being so aggressive about independence - is they have been in power for twelve years and their domestic agenda is currently more or less ground to a halt, without noticeable successes and without even making full use of the powers they already have. Like Johnson (in this one respect) they are being kept afloat by the weakness and ineptitude of the opposition not by their own efforts. At some point, that will come to a sudden end. At Westminster, their pitch is to be independent and vigorous in standing up for Scotland’s interests. But ultimately, they have been mostly an irrelevance for the last four years while the DUP (unfortunately) have exerted an influence far out of proportion to their smaller numbers of MPs. That also makes their record a tough sell.

But of course for most SNP supporters they won’t be bothered about losing power or even about damage to Scotland’s society and economy by poor government if they achieve independence first, because that is all they really care about.

JBriskinindyref2 said:

malcolmg said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

"Some people will be unionists before anything else, there's nothing wrong with that anymore than someone being nationalists first. Can't say I'd expect much of it though."

I'd expect tory gains in Scotland - Kezia here telling it like it is.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jeremy-corbyns-indyref2-stance-makes-election-harder-for-scottish-labour-kezia-dugdale/ar-AAJLAKA?ocid=spartanntp

Loons are out in force today, her word is almost as bad as McTernan's.
Was she not going to be FM once , before the Messiah claimed it would be her and was seen off. How many times do these nutters need to be thrashed to understand they are going nowhere.

You benefit from a non-split vote. Nationalists vote SNP but unfortunately for them they'll never get above 50pc in any election or referendum.

They benefit from having policies for Scotland , unlike the London sockpuppets.

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1191020505685475329

On that basis, I look forward to he day he rules out resigning. May it not be long delayed...

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

Thatcher, surely. She came out and said what she thought most of the time.

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

politician - honest - dream on

This election comes down to just how good Boris is going to be and the last few weeks when Carrie will be alongside him apparently. She has taken six weeks off work, initially to campaign with conservative female candidates in individual marginal seats and then step in alongside Boris.

This will cause a 'stir' if it happens as the media will be enthralled with the important things in an election, like what Carrie is wearing but no doubt her strong green credentials. Indeed I believe this is where the fracking moratorium has come from

The question then will be one of how a presidential style campaign is received

Andrew said:

Barnesian said:

I follow the NOM market as an indicator of how the various campaigns are going.

It has shortened this afternoon to 2.02 and Tory Majority has lengthened to 2.2.

Has anything happened today? Is it the BXP ad?

Spreads have nudged up to 324 - 213 though, and probably they'll increase by a seat each day while the polls remain as they are.

Interesting. Thanks. Is there a link to the spreads?

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

If I may politey disagree. Most of them have told us what they honestly believed to be the truth. Sometimes they have not volunteered the full truth (Callaghan and Chevaline, Major and IRA negotiation) or deluded themselves (Blair and Iraq) , but they rarely full-on lie. Wasn't Eden the last one to lie about something really important with he intent to decieve? Or does Blair's elision/exaggeration of the 45-minute thing count as a lie?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

This election comes down to just how good Boris is going to be and the last few weeks when Carrie will be alongside him apparently. She has taken six weeks off work, initially to campaign with conservative female candidates in individual marginal seats and then step in alongside Boris.

This will cause a 'stir' if it happens as the media will be enthralled with the important things in an election, like what Carrie is wearing but no doubt her strong green credentials. Indeed I believe this is where the fracking moratorium has come from

The question then will be one of how a presidential style campaign is received

Oh goodie. We're meant to be enthralled, are we, by policy being dictated by the PM's latest squeeze, an unelected person with no scientific credentials to her name......

hamiltonace said:

StuartDickson said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1191015400521244673

Makes this market worth a look:

Aberdeen South (incumbent Ross Thomson MP, SCon, Maj 4,752, not standing for re-election)

SNP 2/5
Con 2/1
LD 25/1

(Hills, Ladbrokes, Smarkets)

This is the seat where my father was a Lib Dem councillor many years ago. The Lib Dem’s won’t win it but may well get a second. Supporting neither Brexit nor independence is a good place to be in many parts of Scotland and only one party has that policy

One thing that has not really been mentioned on this website is that for Scotland this election is not really about the nhs as that is under the Scottish elections. As such there is less of a fear for tories like me that a vote for Lib Dem will let Corbyn in.

Another thing to mention is that Ross Thomson’s support for a hard brexit angered a lot of Scottish tories and he was out even without this unfortunate event

numbertwelve said:

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

Thatcher, surely. She came out and said what she thought most of the time.

And Clem Attlee too.

JohnO said:

numbertwelve said:

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

Thatcher, surely. She came out and said what she thought most of the time.

And Clem Attlee too.

Clement Attlee also left office 68 years ago.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Cyclefree said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

This election comes down to just how good Boris is going to be and the last few weeks when Carrie will be alongside him apparently. She has taken six weeks off work, initially to campaign with conservative female candidates in individual marginal seats and then step in alongside Boris.

This will cause a 'stir' if it happens as the media will be enthralled with the important things in an election, like what Carrie is wearing but no doubt her strong green credentials. Indeed I believe this is where the fracking moratorium has come from

The question then will be one of how a presidential style campaign is received

Oh goodie. We're meant to be enthralled, are we, by policy being dictated by the PM's latest squeeze, an unelected person with no scientific credentials to her name......

I am sure you can do better than that.

We all know the media will go overboard in circumstances like this and will latch onto the trivia

I am sure you won't be enthralled but do you think the media will not report on her green credentials, many unelected people are involved in our political discourse

Boris seems a little like Brexit sending otherwise rational people off the deep end.

Perceptions of the Conservatives stewardship of the economy are similar to previous elections. Johnson and Javid hold an 18 point lead over Corbyn and McDonnell in trust to handle the economy. https://t.co/sFVn2LYrI4

ReggieCide said:

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

politician - honest - dream on

That about sums it up

Peter_the_Punter said:

viewcode said:

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Cyclefree said:

I have worked with, investigated and interviewed many people like Boris. Getting the truth out of them is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

I have absolutely no doubt that had Boris gone into the City he would have ended up being investigated by people like me. I am therefore completely immune to his charms, though I recognise that others aren't. Wholly untrustworthy, IMO. Note that untrustworthy people often have other talents. The pity of them is that if they had integrity they would not get themselves or others into trouble and could use their talents wisely and effectively. But I'm afraid that, for me, the lack of integrity is a big no-no.

It is probably naive - or touchingly hopeful - of me to believe, as I was told when I was a child, that your lies eventually catch up with you.

Whoever told you that as a child was ... err ... lying.

All the evidence of modern politics is that liars prosper enormously (see Blair, Clinton, Trump, Johnson).

Stodgy people without the facility of glib & charming mendacity are usually failures (Brown, May).

It is one of the reasons why I am braced for a Tory majority.

It is possible to be a person of integrity without being stodgy. May was not particularly truthful either - or Brown, come to that.

I still think trying to be a person of integrity is worth while and the only decent way to live your life, even if you fall short.

Who was the last totally honest politician to achieve high political office? I’m struggling to think of one. Callaghan or Home would come closest, but not necessarily close.

If I may politey disagree. Most of them have told us what they honestly believed to be the truth. Sometimes they have not volunteered the full truth (Callaghan and Chevaline, Major and IRA negotiation) or deluded themselves (Blair and Iraq) , but they rarely full-on lie. Wasn't Eden the last one to lie about something really important with he intent to decieve? Or does Blair's elision/exaggeration of the 45-minute thing count as a lie?

The Hutton Report concluded that he did not actually lie, although he did everything but.

And nobody believes the Hutton Report got close to the truth.

franklyn said:

I live in NE Bedfordshire, Alistair Burt's old constituency. It has always had an enormous Conservative majority, but Alistair was enormously well regarded, and people were distraught when he was booted out. I have just had the second set of Lib Dem campaign literature through my letterbox, and the Lib Dems have a strong presence on the local council. It would take an earthquake for the Conservatives to lose this seat, but earthquakes do happen; perhaps more to the point, if the Conservatives have to direct resources to a seat like this it takes resources away from other seats. Indeed the local Conservatives haven't even chose a candidate yet, or appeared to update their website

Boris has banned fracking to stop earthquakes.

Just sayin'.....