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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    HYUFD said:



    No as if they win those Leave seats the Brexit Party taking Labour votes will be a key factor, that was not the case in 2017.

    See Workington for example where there is a small swing from Labour to the Tories but a bigger swing from Labour to the Brexit Party, putting the Tories in front.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1190402686828580865?s=20

    No, we discussed this the other day. In some ways it's better for the Tories - what appears to have happened (looking at the crosstabs) is that BXP have hurt both parties equally, but the Conservatives have got a chunk of direct switchers, On this evidence, the impact of BXP will be neutral, but the improvement in Tory fortunes in the industrial north is evidently still continuing.
    The BXP standing will benefit the Tories against Labour in the North and Midlands and Wales but probably help Labour and the LDs against the Tories in London and the South
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Who have they parachuted in
    https://www.performingartistes.co.uk/artistes/kishan-devani

    I hope the Tories win Montgomeryshire.

    The "Welsh" LibDems have learnt nothing from the fiasco of Lembit Opik and Alex Carlile.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    Green have stood aside but without any agreement with LDs or Labour it seems:

    https://twitter.com/greenshastings/status/1190633253813858305?s=20


  • Good grief what rubbish you post!

    Biomass recycles CO2 from the atmosphere into the plant (when the plant is growing) then back out into the atmosphere, so the net effect is zero additional CO2 in the atmosphere.

    Burning fossil fuels causes carbon that has been trapped deep underground for 100s of millions of years to be release into the atmosphere as additional CO2.

    BS - how many years of growth of that biomass does it take before they are burnt? Grow a tree for X years of CO2 capture before burning to release ALL that CO2 in one go. Its the same thing as the fossil fuels, just green handwavium on the maths claims its recycling.. its just as unsustainable. Open your eyes!
    Its sustainable. So long as it is modern CO2 that is being captured, released, recaptured and released it is net zero.

    Fossil fuels is not the same thing. It is releasing CO2 from a previous era today. Nothing is being recaptured.
    That is true for the direct emissions that come from burning the biofuel, but if you clear a forest in order to grow sugar cane then the deforestation at the start of the process will emit lots of carbon that was stored in the forest (and possibly the forest soil) that will no longer be stored in the sugarcane plantation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Rudd stood down
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Who have they parachuted in
    Deleted - wrong constituency - oops!

  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:


    You first. Mine aren't going within 100ft of a pit. Mining is very romantic but has this habit of killing its employees in various sadistic ways.

    It has always puzzled me that the Labour left is so keen on environmental issues and yet so romanticizes the coal industry and the Miners’ Strike - which was, after all, about the insistence that no pit capable of producing coal, even if it was never used, should be closed.
    There's nothing odd about it. People in most mining areas had very little relatively well-paid employment available except mining, so whole communities developed unhealthily dependent on it but not seeing any way out. I've met plenty of ex-miners and a number who did see the strike as a heroic last stand for their livelihoods but who were adamant that it was a filthy, dangerous job and they hoped their kids would do anything else.

    What happened in the end is that communities adjusted up to a point, but after 10-20 years of depression. If Thatcher had closed the pits gradually while at the same time bringing in alternative employment the resistance would have been much less, but Conservative governments don't do bringing in jobs - it's the free market, innit?
    The fight against Scargill had to be won - from Thatcher’s point of view it was existential for her government - but once it was, a degree of constructive magnanimity might have rewritten politics.
    Such a thing was beyond her.

    It was precisely that which stopped my old man from voting Tory, having done so in every election from 1950 onwards.
  • Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Pah! Get over it!

    There's too much division in politics in this country; we need more not less co-operation.
    It is an utter disaster for Plaid, the party of Wales

    I should think they will pay a heavy price in future polls

    They either stand in every Welsh seat campaigning for Independence or they may as well close shop now as they lose their integrity and purpose
  • HYUFD said:

    Rudd stood down
    But who are the Greens endorsing?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    nunu2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is an amazing wide mouthed frog impression they have caught. :)
    The grinch who stole Brexit!
    Am I right in thinking Steve Baker, once a Spartan, is now a Snowflake?

    And what news of Corporal Francois?
    They’re both now blythe Spartans....
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Pah! Get over it!

    There's too much division in politics in this country; we need more not less co-operation.
    It is an utter disaster for Plaid, the party of Wales

    I should think they will pay a heavy price in future polls

    They either stand in every Welsh seat campaigning for Independence or they may as well close shop now as they lose their integrity and purpose
    I certainly agree with your assessment regarding the Plaid vote.

    The "Welsh" LibDems don't care.

    Still, it will energise Plaid Cymru in West Montgomeryshire to make sure the LibDems don't win.
  • HYUFD said:



    No as if they win those Leave seats the Brexit Party taking Labour votes will be a key factor, that was not the case in 2017.

    See Workington for example where there is a small swing from Labour to the Tories but a bigger swing from Labour to the Brexit Party, putting the Tories in front.

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1190402686828580865?s=20

    No, we discussed this the other day. In some ways it's better for the Tories - what appears to have happened (looking at the crosstabs) is that BXP have hurt both parties equally, but the Conservatives have got a chunk of direct switchers, On this evidence, the impact of BXP will be neutral, but the improvement in Tory fortunes in the industrial north is evidently still continuing.
    Farage said on Marr today he is going out to attack labour seats and of course if he attracks labour voters who would never vote conservative then that could be a real problem for labour
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    Right, night all.

    Not sure if I can survive another 38 days of this! :smile:


  • Good grief what rubbish you post!

    Biomass recycles CO2 from the atmosphere into the plant (when the plant is growing) then back out into the atmosphere, so the net effect is zero additional CO2 in the atmosphere.

    Burning fossil fuels causes carbon that has been trapped deep underground for 100s of millions of years to be release into the atmosphere as additional CO2.

    BS - how many years of growth of that biomass does it take before they are burnt? Grow a tree for X years of CO2 capture before burning to release ALL that CO2 in one go. Its the same thing as the fossil fuels, just green handwavium on the maths claims its recycling.. its just as unsustainable. Open your eyes!
    Its sustainable. So long as it is modern CO2 that is being captured, released, recaptured and released it is net zero.

    Fossil fuels is not the same thing. It is releasing CO2 from a previous era today. Nothing is being recaptured.
    That is true for the direct emissions that come from burning the biofuel, but if you clear a forest in order to grow sugar cane then the deforestation at the start of the process will emit lots of carbon that was stored in the forest (and possibly the forest soil) that will no longer be stored in the sugarcane plantation.
    Of course!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes, in the UK. I'd build big clean coal power stations. I have a friend who is a geologist who claims we can somehow capture the carbon by pumping it beneath the earth again.

    But that doesn't solve the problem that extracting the coal is going to cost $150-200/tonne, which would make UK electricity even more expensive. (Seaborne coal is $63/tonne, albeit with shipping cost of $3-5 to be added)

    There's a reason we moved from burning our own coal to importing it.
    One would only open the most profitable mines. Those shipping costs look low, I wish I could find a courier who would deliver a tonne of anything for £5.
    The day rate for a 170,000 dwt vessel is just $4,000/day. If the power station is by the sea, it'll be cheaper to get coal there from South Africa or South America than by road from a mine in the UK.
    Building a coal generating plant, of whatever type, is just nuts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    HYUFD said:

    Rudd stood down
    But who are the Greens endorsing?
    Labour and the LDs
  • Nigelb said:

    nunu2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is an amazing wide mouthed frog impression they have caught. :)
    The grinch who stole Brexit!
    Am I right in thinking Steve Baker, once a Spartan, is now a Snowflake?

    And what news of Corporal Francois?
    They’re both now blythe Spartans....
    I'd like to leave Mark Francois in the middle of Blyth, he'd last about 30 seconds.
  • Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Who have they parachuted in
    https://www.performingartistes.co.uk/artistes/kishan-devani

    I hope the Tories win Montgomeryshire.

    The "Welsh" LibDems have learnt nothing from the fiasco of Lembit Opik and Alex Carlile.
    Thank you
  • Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    If the LibDems show how much they care, and go the extra mile by making sure you get an even greater number of barchart-laden leaflets, might you reconsider?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696



    Good grief what rubbish you post!

    Biomass recycles CO2 from the atmosphere into the plant (when the plant is growing) then back out into the atmosphere, so the net effect is zero additional CO2 in the atmosphere.

    Burning fossil fuels causes carbon that has been trapped deep underground for 100s of millions of years to be release into the atmosphere as additional CO2.

    BS - how many years of growth of that biomass does it take before they are burnt? Grow a tree for X years of CO2 capture before burning to release ALL that CO2 in one go. Its the same thing as the fossil fuels, just green handwavium on the maths claims its recycling.. its just as unsustainable. Open your eyes!
    Its sustainable. So long as it is modern CO2 that is being captured, released, recaptured and released it is net zero.

    Fossil fuels is not the same thing. It is releasing CO2 from a previous era today. Nothing is being recaptured.
    That is true for the direct emissions that come from burning the biofuel, but if you clear a forest in order to grow sugar cane then the deforestation at the start of the process will emit lots of carbon that was stored in the forest (and possibly the forest soil) that will no longer be stored in the sugarcane plantation.
    Yes, biomass is generally not a good thing. Renewables are the answer...

    ... together with those minature nuclear fusion reactors Boris has invented:

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/boris-johnson-nuclear-fusion-1-6309123
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes, in the UK. I'd build big clean coal power stations. I have a friend who is a geologist who claims we can somehow capture the carbon by pumping it beneath the earth again.

    But that doesn't solve the problem that extracting the coal is going to cost $150-200/tonne, which would make UK electricity even more expensive. (Seaborne coal is $63/tonne, albeit with shipping cost of $3-5 to be added)

    There's a reason we moved from burning our own coal to importing it.
    One would only open the most profitable mines. Those shipping costs look low, I wish I could find a courier who would deliver a tonne of anything for £5.
    The day rate for a 170,000 dwt vessel is just $4,000/day. If the power station is by the sea, it'll be cheaper to get coal there from South Africa or South America than by road from a mine in the UK.
    Building a coal generating plant, of whatever type, is just nuts.
    Vietnam is building a bunch of them. They use coal from Indonesia.

    One reason why we are screwed....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1191122516024143877

    Lab wakes up to its old persons problem.

    They kept the triple lock etc last time, they know there's a need to pander to the old people vote. The Tories just forgot to pander enough to it last time, being too confident of victory.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Pah! Get over it!

    There's too much division in politics in this country; we need more not less co-operation.
    People tend to only agree on more cooperation if it serves their interests - funnily enough opponents cooperating is a terrible thing.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    AndyJS said:
    If you take the median of the tory share of the last 8 polls (37.8%) and the median of the labour share of the last 8 polls (27.1), you get a Tory lead of about 11%
    Enough for a majority?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019
    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1191122516024143877

    Lab wakes up to its old persons problem.

    They kept the triple lock etc last time, they know there's a need to pander to the old people vote. The Tories just forgot to pander enough to it last time, being too confident of victory.
    Tories also announced a 3.9% state pension rise today too
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Artist said:

    Think the Tories will do well in the West Midlands but a 20% gap to close in West Bromwich East is too much.

    The midlands has seemed like fertile territory for awhile now. But high profile decapitation strategies rarely pay off, unless I am mistaken, and they have other targets to focus on, especially if Farage still needs to be overcome.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    If the LibDems show how much they care, and go the extra mile by making sure you get an even greater number of barchart-laden leaflets, might you reconsider?
    I have had nothing from the LibDems for two days !!

    I had a Labour leaflet on Saturday. It curiously failed to have any picture or mention of Jeremy Corbyn whatsoever. But, to be fair, it did contain some policies.

    Policies have been conspicuously missing from my LibDem leaflets, which mainly have pictures of Jo Swinson looking as though she is about to bubble like cheese on toast under the grill.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    A sensible political move, or a sensible policy move?

  • I have had nothing from the LibDems for two days !!

    No wonder your enthusiasm is fading...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited November 2019
    Even with some very bad years I am amazed the LDs scored in the 1% range in any seat in the country. In fairness though, even with such low scores to 'give up' with, they are standing down in more than I'd have thought in such a small area.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Are you canvassing for the Tories?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    nunu2 said:

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Are you canvassing for the Tories?
    I will be persuading people not to vote -- or if they do vote, not to vote for the LibDem, who appears to be better suited to a seat in London.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    nunu2 said:

    PagetVC said:
    That might be one seat Corbyn would be happy to lose.....
    That would be devastating for the Labour resistance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    nunu2 said:

    AndyJS said:
    If you take the median of the tory share of the last 8 polls (37.8%) and the median of the labour share of the last 8 polls (27.1), you get a Tory lead of about 11%
    Enough for a majority?
    Against Labour yes but the losses to the LDs and SNP need to be minimised to ensure it.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    viewcode said:

    If a settlement grows up in a specific location due to a specific industry at that location does it not make sense that the settlement might shrink or disappear once that industry ceases to exist?

    It makes sense economically.
    However people invest time, money and sentiment in living in a place and cannot easily move from it. Their kids can and do, but they cannot, and you end up with hollowed-out communities of old people and unemployed, getting sicker and poorer.
    Yes, that's very well put - it's exactly what happened. Broxtowe is on the edge of the ex-xoalfield and we had quite a few retired miners in the north of the constituency. They were generally phlegmatic but life was a struggle.

    Nowadays I think kids grow up thinking mobile - their friends are often online rather than down the road, they expect to move around as part of early adult years. Not owning your home helps too - no worries about having to watch the value of yolur only significant asset steadily declining.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Gabs2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    PagetVC said:
    That might be one seat Corbyn would be happy to lose.....
    That would be devastating for the Labour resistance.
    If Corbyn wins or has the largest party, or is close to the Tory numbers, then that 'resistance' will bend the knee and sing Oh Jeremy Corbyn like they did last time. If the Tories get a majority, especially a big one, then Corbyn will be fatally wounded anyway, so Watson hanging on or losing won't matter depending on the wider context.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Very early days, but feels like the Tories are still in first gear a little bit in terms of grabbing attention.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Apparently, a general election deal between Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru has been agreed.

    PC won't field a candidate in Brecon and Radnorshire or Montgomeryshire (probably the only constituencies the LibDems care about)

    In return, LDs stand down in constituencies including Ynys Môn, Arfon, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Carmarthen East, Llanelli.

    Fury on the Plaid Cymru blogs. There are hardly any LibDems in these seats, and almost all of them will never vote Plaid Cymru anyhow.

    This pernicious alliance means I will canvass actively against the (former Tory) Londoner who the LibDems have parachuted into Montgomeryshire. It will be a pleasure to see him lose.

    The LibDems really do turn everything to ordure ...

    Calm down, dear.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Bone to be thrown to the WASPI people next, another 'pause'? Lots of votes still to be bought with 38 days to go.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    PagetVC said:
    That might be one seat Corbyn would be happy to lose.....
    That would be devastating for the Labour resistance.
    If Corbyn wins or has the largest party, or is close to the Tory numbers, then that 'resistance' will bend the knee and sing Oh Jeremy Corbyn like they did last time. If the Tories get a majority, especially a big one, then Corbyn will be fatally wounded anyway, so Watson hanging on or losing won't matter depending on the wider context.
    I think thats right, but there is a major danger Corbyn will be replaced by another Corbynista. Watson is the critical one in potentially preventing it.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,711
    Con will surely have to match Free TVLs - it's a small thing but something which public understand and know about - and therefore it'll get cut through.

    However sting in tail should be that Con will ultimately get BBC to fund it or at least most of it - but maybe don't say that in manifesto!

    BBC already agreed to fund it for those getting Pension Credit.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    The LibDem parachuted into Montgomeryshire has on his twitter feed

    "Visited Llanidloes hospital with Cllr Gareth Morgan. Appalling to see how cuts to the NHS by the Tories has decimated our NHS. "

    He hasn't even understood that the NHS in Wales is DEVOLVED.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yes, in the UK. I'd build big clean coal power stations. I have a friend who is a geologist who claims we can somehow capture the carbon by pumping it beneath the earth again.

    But that doesn't solve the problem that extracting the coal is going to cost $150-200/tonne, which would make UK electricity even more expensive. (Seaborne coal is $63/tonne, albeit with shipping cost of $3-5 to be added)

    There's a reason we moved from burning our own coal to importing it.
    One would only open the most profitable mines. Those shipping costs look low, I wish I could find a courier who would deliver a tonne of anything for £5.
    The day rate for a 170,000 dwt vessel is just $4,000/day. If the power station is by the sea, it'll be cheaper to get coal there from South Africa or South America than by road from a mine in the UK.
    Building a coal generating plant, of whatever type, is just nuts.
    I did a video on that.

    The big issue coal has is:

    (a) fuel is no longer cheap relative to natural gas, unless you live right next to an open pit mine
    (b) operating and maintenance costs are high for coal fired power stations
    (c) it's not very flexible: plants are designed to run at capacity for months on end

    In the US, some coal fired plants are getting gas burners put in. Burn gas, heat water, it's not particularly efficient, but it's the easiest way to get your old coal fired plant's costs down to a level where it's not idleing.

    There's this misconception that coal is disappearing from the grid due to "green" issues. The reality is that if you and I both build a plant (even assuming no carbon costs), and mine is natural gas, and yours is coal, then you will go out of business and I won't.

    It'll have cost me less to build my plant, I'll have lower operating costs, and I'll be able to turn it off if the price of electricity falls below generation cost. (While you will probably have to suck it up, generating power for a loss.)
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2019
    kle4 said:

    Bone to be thrown to the WASPI people next, another 'pause'? Lots of votes still to be bought with 38 days to go.

    I shall want an early edition of the Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica from Boris in recognition of the work I'll now be doing to down the LibDems in Mid-Wales !
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    The LibDem parachuted into Montgomeryshire has on his twitter feed

    "Visited Llanidloes hospital with Cllr Gareth Morgan. Appalling to see how cuts to the NHS by the Tories has decimated our NHS. "

    He hasn't even understood that the NHS in Wales is DEVOLVED.

    He may have understood it, but hopes enough people dont understand it or dont care.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited November 2019
    Gabs2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    PagetVC said:
    That might be one seat Corbyn would be happy to lose.....
    That would be devastating for the Labour resistance.
    If Corbyn wins or has the largest party, or is close to the Tory numbers, then that 'resistance' will bend the knee and sing Oh Jeremy Corbyn like they did last time. If the Tories get a majority, especially a big one, then Corbyn will be fatally wounded anyway, so Watson hanging on or losing won't matter depending on the wider context.
    I think thats right, but there is a major danger Corbyn will be replaced by another Corbynista. Watson is the critical one in potentially preventing it.
    If Corbyn is defeated and the Tories win a majority and Watson loses so a Corbynista is the new Labour leader, the LDs will not believe their luck, especially if Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster to become the new LD leader in waiting ready to appeal to Labour moderates
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kle4 said:

    The LibDem parachuted into Montgomeryshire has on his twitter feed

    "Visited Llanidloes hospital with Cllr Gareth Morgan. Appalling to see how cuts to the NHS by the Tories has decimated our NHS. "

    He hasn't even understood that the NHS in Wales is DEVOLVED.

    He may have understood it, but hopes enough people dont understand it or dont care.
    You mean, he is trying to mislead ... why only earlier in the thread, we had prominent LibDems reminding us of the importance of honesty in politics?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Good to see the Spanish doing Westminster projections https://electomania.es/ukop2n/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    Dadge said:

    Good to see the Spanish doing Westminster projections https://electomania.es/ukop2n/

    Boris would take that!
  • Dadge said:

    Good to see the Spanish doing Westminster projections https://electomania.es/ukop2n/

    Wow. That is some prediction. Interesting that they have the Tories gaining exactly the seats I said they wold in Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire. Knowing my record that probably means they are way off :)
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    Gabs2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    nunu2 said:

    PagetVC said:
    That might be one seat Corbyn would be happy to lose.....
    That would be devastating for the Labour resistance.
    If Corbyn wins or has the largest party, or is close to the Tory numbers, then that 'resistance' will bend the knee and sing Oh Jeremy Corbyn like they did last time. If the Tories get a majority, especially a big one, then Corbyn will be fatally wounded anyway, so Watson hanging on or losing won't matter depending on the wider context.
    I think thats right, but there is a major danger Corbyn will be replaced by another Corbynista. Watson is the critical one in potentially preventing it.
    If Corbyn is defeated and the Tories win a majority and Watson loses so a Corbynista is the new Labour leader, the LDs will not believe their luck, especially if Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster to become the new LD leader in waiting ready to appeal to Labour moderates
    You are much better rebutting with facts, you are not so good when you get your crystal ball out. After Christmas Long Bailey becomes Labour leader. Here she is. 🧑🏼‍🏫
    You saying she’s getting no bounce, no clean slate for Labour new leaders normally get, for starters she doesn’t have the baggage Corbyn came with, so why wouldn’t she and her cabinet be given a chance?

    Anyway, here’s the nub. Haven’t you said it yourself, corbyn with his dire ratings is a key reason for Boris election win.

    What does bex opposition have to do to win power? Maybe nothing, if the government parties ratings go through the floor. And the way Cummings and Boris have gone about it since the summer it is easy to imagine a divisive Boris majority government becoming very very unpopular in coming years, and 2025 will soon come round. 😌
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Going the through the marginals with the help of David Cowling's guide, I've currently got the following:
    Lab>Con 26
    Con>LD 9
    Con>SNP 5
    which takes the Tories up to 330 seats.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited November 2019
    Dadge said:

    Good to see the Spanish doing Westminster projections https://electomania.es/ukop2n/

    That shows Con gaining my seat (Newcastle upon Tyne North), Tynemouth, and Blyth Valley. I doubt it.

    It also shows Jess Phillips losing in Yardley. Also doubt it.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    HYUFD said:
    Why would CCHQ release this?

    Surely they don't want tories to be complacent? 😜
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    Dadge said:

    Good to see the Spanish doing Westminster projections https://electomania.es/ukop2n/

    Boris would take that!
    That's based on one poll though?
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    edited November 2019
    Dadge said:

    Going the through the marginals with the help of David Cowling's guide, I've currently got the following:
    Lab>Con 26
    Con>LD 9
    Con>SNP 5
    which takes the Tories up to 330 seats.

    We really need to see a Scottish only poll


    If the SNP are below 40% then they will get less than 45 seats. Mostly gain from Labour.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    kle4 said:

    The LibDem parachuted into Montgomeryshire has on his twitter feed

    "Visited Llanidloes hospital with Cllr Gareth Morgan. Appalling to see how cuts to the NHS by the Tories has decimated our NHS. "

    He hasn't even understood that the NHS in Wales is DEVOLVED.

    He may have understood it, but hopes enough people dont understand it or dont care.
    You mean, he is trying to mislead ... why only earlier in the thread, we had prominent LibDems reminding us of the importance of honesty in politics?
    Why on earth would you go door to door telling people NOT to vote.
This discussion has been closed.