Mr. Mango, and yet, it's almost always pro-EU types who keep banging on about the empire.
If pro-EU people had actually fought against the argument the public was hearing and not the strawman they invented, they might have won the referendum...
Maybe if Leave hadn’t lied and lied some more they wouldn’t have won the referendum.
Stop victim blaming.
Remain had the entire apparatus of the State to win the Referendum. It chose the question, it chose the timing. The battlefield was of its choosing. It had the support of the PM as well as political leaders from the EU and the US.
On the specific point of 'empire nostalgia': this is brought up almost exclusively by those who invent it as a strawman to lambast those who wish to leave.
A competent campaign would've seen Remain win. It's bizarre given the weight of the political class on its side they were so poor.
Justin 124 said 'You are just exposing your own ignorance with comments like that. The Government lost ground in the election campaigns of 1959 - 1964 - 1966 - 1970 - both 1974 elections - 1987 - and certainly 2017. Very little change in 1955 or 2005. The polling data is available - should you wish to lower yourself to consult it. To be clear , I am asserting that on Polling Day incumbent Governments fare less well than implied by polls at the time the election was announced. To take the 1959 example - when Macmillan announced the election in the first week of September , there were polls giving the Tories a lead of 7% - 9%. On election day - 8th October - the Tories won by 5%.. Check the data yourself!' Ydoethur said
'I have. Repeatedly. And you are wrong and I am right. Try Butler and butler, British Political Facts. Or the excellent series British General Elections. You will find that your internet sources are not all they might be.l and you are merely appealing to your own prejudices when citing them.'
You need to look again. Here are the polling figures for early Sept 1959
Sept 8 Gallup Con 48.3% Lab 41.9% Con lead 6.4% Sept 14 NOP Con 51.2% Lab 42.9% Con lead 8.3% Sept 15 Express Con 50.8% Lab 42.7% Con Lead 8.1% Sept 15 Gallup Con 50.5% Lab 43.5% Con lead 7.0%
Oct 8 Result Con 48.8% Lab 44.6% Con lead 4.2%, Ergo there was a swing against the Government in the course of the campaign.
It was not the Post EU vision sold of a plucky but important nation punching above its weight.
I have multiple bridges to sell to anyone who bought than vision.
Blinkered, empire-nostalgic idiots.
I mean, that is basically what Johnson is still selling. All the "optimism" and talk of "doomsters and gloomsters and nay sayers" is all about this idea of Britain being able to go out to the world and do as it wills.
The Tory party should never be forgiven for imposing four years of wasted opportunity and have caused massive divides within society in order to limit the impact of UKIP on its vote share.
I mean, that is basically what Johnson is still selling. All the "optimism" and talk of "doomsters and gloomsters and nay sayers" is all about this idea of Britain being able to go out to the world and do as it wills.
I get that he thinks it will win him votes, but I am still unclear what he thinks will happen when he can't deliver any of it
On the specific point of 'empire nostalgia': this is brought up almost exclusively by those who invent it as a strawman to lambast those who wish to leave.
A competent campaign would've seen Remain win. It's bizarre given the weight of the political class on its side they were so poor.
I mean, Remain lost because Cameron refused to go Blue on Blue until near the end, and due to the coalition government dismantling the social safety net and social contract until the only recourse was saying FU in a referendum in which all of the "establishment" seemed to be speaking with one voice.
Mr. L, that's the critical problem, I think. And the resolution to it should've, perhaps must've, happened in the past. But didn't.
We've been integrated far more than most people wanted, and the public were never consulted. And for those who wrongly allege General Elections permitted this, a GE has every other aspect of national politics involved, it isn't a single issue event. On top of that, the public were promised a vote on Lisbon, probably the last such time that we could've signalled dislike of ever-increasing integration short of withdrawal, and then denied it by contemptible politicians who considered manifesto pledges as optional.
The political centre ground was pro-EU, and moved significantly in that direction away from common ground with the electorate. One of the reasons this will rumble on for a long time, whatever happens in the next week, is that disentangling ourselves will be very difficult, and the political class remains far more pro-EU than the general population (though it's worth noting events have helped kickstart a significant pro-EU movement more widely).
The next week may very well be turbulent and bitter, but there'll be lots more rancour and argument afterwards too. The week ahead will not resolve anything, it might simply be the moment we take one turning instead of another.
I remain flabbergasted at the sheer incompetence of the parties PR machines. Time and again the key arguments are shrouded in media theatrics that pander to social media addicts. The principle point that needed hammering from day one is that this is all about the Political future not essentially the Economic one. The EU exist to propagate more EU, the building blocks continue until individual Governments become subservient and ultimate European power is installed. Unfortunately negotiating an FTA continues the focus on trade, instead of trying to unshackle politically first via EEA/EFTA.
On the specific point of 'empire nostalgia': this is brought up almost exclusively by those who invent it as a strawman to lambast those who wish to leave.
A competent campaign would've seen Remain win. It's bizarre given the weight of the political class on its side they were so poor.
The Remain campaign was run by Conservatives. They spoke to Conservative values. This did rather put everybody else off.
I mean, that is basically what Johnson is still selling. All the "optimism" and talk of "doomsters and gloomsters and nay sayers" is all about this idea of Britain being able to go out to the world and do as it wills.
I get that he thinks it will win him votes, but I am still unclear what he thinks will happen when he can't deliver any of it
I don't think he cares, really. With the press as complaint as they are, and the opposition not doing a great job of holding him to account, he will polish every turd, the media will eat it, and Labour will continue screaming "but it's a turd" whilst everyone focuses on their turds instead.
Indeed, an increasing number of voters seem willing to allow Johnson any power imaginable to dodge parliamentary scrutiny in service of "Getting It Done", which he can drag out to include the transition and any FTA negotiations if he so wishes.
I remember a big polling thing just post the referendum which looked at lots of these questions, making the culture war pretty stark. The questions were around "is x a force for good in the world". Remain / Leave divides included LGBT rights, feminism, environmentalism and multiculturalism. Interestingly there was agreement between Remain and Leave about ambivalence towards capitalism (roughly 50/50 for each group), if I remember rightly.
The EU should offer a flextension until July 2022. Effectively give the U.K. all options (statutory GE, referendum, May’s deal, Johnson’s deal - latter two with new transition periods) to sort it out themselves and tell us to come back when we’re done.
Yes it would, but I think they are not thinking of potential downsides. Some remainers are guilty of pretending all will be hunky dory if we stay but odds are good we will continue to be fractious and confused and cause trouble.
We stand a reasonable chance of being a good neighbour but a strong chance of being an atrocious tenant detained against our will.
The EU should offer a flextension until July 2022. Effectively give the U.K. all options (statutory GE, referendum, May’s deal, Johnson’s deal - latter two with new transition periods) to sort it out themselves and tell us to come back when we’re done.
Yes it would, but I think they are not thinking of potential downsides. Some remainers are guilty of pretending all will be hunky dory if we stay but odds are good we will continue to be fractious and confused and cause trouble.
There are unicorn fellators on all sides (see the 'we just need to get Brexit done' brigade so staunchly represented on here), but I sense the numbers are diminishing as they're ground down by the inexorable actualité. 'Distant albeit fading hope, hidden away' probably covers EU enthusiasm for the UK staying pretty well.
The EU should offer a flextension until July 2022. Effectively give the U.K. all options (statutory GE, referendum, May’s deal, Johnson’s deal - latter two with new transition periods) to sort it out themselves and tell us to come back when we’re done.
Yes it would, but I think they are not thinking of potential downsides. Some remainers are guilty of pretending all will be hunky dory if we stay but odds are good we will continue to be fractious and confused and cause trouble.
We stand a reasonable chance of being a good neighbour but a strong chance of being an atrocious tenant detained against our will.
All the evidence suggests that Britain is going to be Western Europe’s resident drunk and disorderly for the foreseeable future.
Given the clear willingness of Corbyn to thwart Johnson's election plans as already twice demonstrated, I am genuinely puzzled why he failed to do this back in April 2017 when Labour's polling deficit was a fair bit bigger! I was more than a little exasperated at the time.
Most mentions of “empire” come from Remainers - usually with gratuitous insults they somehow believe reflect on their target rather than themselves...
Empire 2.0 and CANZUK are very much (very batty) Leaver ideas.
Many commentators on Twitter have confused the derogatory term with official government branding and are attacking Fox and his office for its seeming crassness (although it is, of course, the policies opponents who are branding it empire 2.0.)
Just seen Swinson's tweet. Obviously chasing the woke student vote there. A bit demeaning from a party leader IMO but maybe she doesn't care about that.
Most mentions of “empire” come from Remainers - usually with gratuitous insults they somehow believe reflect on their target rather than themselves...
Empire 2.0 and CANZUK are very much (very batty) Leaver ideas.
Empire 2.0 is. A closer relationship with Canada, Australia and New Zealand (including free movement of workers) is very much on the table.
It’s just a polite way for reactionary Leavers to try to revive the white empire (not noticing that these countries are now radically different from their memories and preconceptions).
Most mentions of “empire” come from Remainers - usually with gratuitous insults they somehow believe reflect on their target rather than themselves...
Empire 2.0 and CANZUK are very much (very batty) Leaver ideas.
Empire 2.0 is. A closer relationship with Canada, Australia and New Zealand (including free movement of workers) is very much on the table.
Is there a subtle difference between people and works that you hope you can then use to humiliate the person that accuses you of suggesting stopping one just to have another?
Over in the states do we have any idea how Trump's pullback in Syria is going down with the voters. I mean all the focus is on how Romney etc see it - but is there any specific polling on this issue. The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist. I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
I am not surprised if the cabinet are split over a GE but maybe they should ask themselves how they expect Boris reacts when Blackford if full angry SNP mode demands an election now
I am not surprised if the cabinet are split over a GE but maybe they should ask themselves how they expect Boris reacts when Blackford if full angry SNP mode demands an election now
Interesting comments allegedly coming out from French EU officials .
“ This Parliament will never be capable of making a decision “.
They are not wrong
I wonder if the EU and member states have been familiarising themselves with first past the post and such places as Dudley North, St Ives and East Renfrewshire?
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Given the House of Commons has refused to vote for May's Deal, has refused to vote for No Deal and is trying to amend the Boris Deal, Boris has had to act as he has to try and deliver Brexit.
Had the 21 Tory rebels who voted for the Benn Act been allowed to stand again then even had Boris won a majority after the next general election on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket, he could not deliver his manifesto. That particularly applies to the Tory MPs who voted to smrmd the Boris Deal and agsinst the Boris timetable up deliver Brexit by 31st October, again had they been allowed to stand again Boris could not deliver his Deal as stands.
Had Boris stuck to the DUP line and refused to back a Northern Ireland only backstop the EU would also have refused a Deal anyway, while his current Deal as the polling shows is much more popular with Leavers than the May Deal, hence the big current Tory poll lead. So Boris has been absolutely right
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Given the House of Commons has refused to vote for May's Deal, has refused to vote for No Deal and is trying to amend the Boris Deal, Boris has had to act as he has to try and deliver Brexit.
Had the 21 Tory rebels who voted for the Benn Act been allowed to stand again then even had Boris won a majority after the next general election on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket, he could not deliver his manifesto. That particularly applies to the Tory MPs who voted to smrmd the Boris Deal and agsinst the Boris timetable up deliver Brexit by 31st October, again had they been allowed to stand again Boris could not deliver his Deal as stands.
Had Boris stuck to the DUP line and refused to back a Northern Ireland only backstop the EU would also have refused a Deal anyway, while his current Deal as the polling shows is much more popular with Leavers than the May Deal, hence the big current Tory poll lead. So Boris has been absolutely right
LOL
Dear Mr President
The UK parliament has passed the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019. Its provisions now require Her Majesty’s government to seek an extension of the period provided under article 50(3) of the treaty on European Union, including as applied by article 106a of the Euratom treaty, currently due to expire at 11pm GMT on 31 October 2019, until 11pm GMT on 31 January 2020.
I am writing therefore to inform the European council that the United Kingdom is seeking a further extension to the period provided under article 50(3) of the treaty on European Union, including as applied by article 106a of the Euratom treaty. The United Kingdom proposes that this period should end at 11pm GMT on 31 January 2020. If the parties are able to ratify before this date, the government proposes that the period should be terminated early.
Yours sincerely,
Prime minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Over in the states do we have any idea how Trump's pullback in Syria is going down with the voters. I mean all the focus is on how Romney etc see it - but is there any specific polling on this issue. The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist. I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
Only 47% of American voters now see Syria as a vital security interest for the US and they are now mainly Democrats.
Most mentions of “empire” come from Remainers - usually with gratuitous insults they somehow believe reflect on their target rather than themselves...
Empire 2.0 and CANZUK are very much (very batty) Leaver ideas.
Empire 2.0 is. A closer relationship with Canada, Australia and New Zealand (including free movement of workers) is very much on the table.
There’s nothing to stop us agreeing to reciprocal free movement with those countries while we’re in the EU.
In any case I find this position so needy and undignified. The implication is that we want those countries to have a closer relationship with us than they have with the rest of Europe, like a controlling parent that seeks validation from their children.
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Interesting. The reason I think they will play it by the book (eg. Jan 31) is because anything else, and in particular a shortened extension, would, in their terms, be interfering in the politics of another (still) Member State.
63% of Republican voters now think the party should be more the party of Trump than the party of Romney. Only 30% think it should be more the party of Romney.
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Don’t forget revoke if parliament sees the new suggested deal is crap and don’t want to leave no deal then they can revoke.
As per James Cleverly on R4: If the opposition parties had voted with the government we would be out by the 31st October.
So *that's* the secret of government - get the opposition parties to vote for you.
Well, if you are very much a minority government, yes. Unfortunately none of our politicians are very good at building a bridge or a consensus and our current politics penalises those that even try.
Interesting comments allegedly coming out from French EU officials .
“ This Parliament will never be capable of making a decision “.
No it won't. It would be very unwise of the Tories to agree a longer parliamentary timetable for the deal - it will never get through the Commons (let alone the Lords) in its current form. We cannot now move forward without another electoral process, either a GE or referendum.
As per James Cleverly on R4: If the opposition parties had voted with the government we would be out by the 31st October.
So *that's* the secret of government - get the opposition parties to vote for you.
Well, if you are very much a minority government, yes. Unfortunately none of our politicians are very good at building a bridge or a consensus and our current politics penalises those that even try.
Surely ( @HYUFD help me out here) any Conservative Prime Minister in these particular times, after the past three years, and one who is a divisive little shit called Boris to boot, would not be so ABSOLUTELY FUCKING IDIOTICALLY BATSHIT CRAZY as to predicate a cliff edge promise on the behaviour of Labour or any opposition party.
Given the House of Commons has refused to vote for May's Deal, has refused to vote for No Deal and is trying to amend the Boris Deal, Boris has had to act as he has to try and deliver Brexit.
Had the 21 Tory rebels who voted for the Benn Act been allowed to stand again then even had Boris won a majority after the next general election on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket, he could not deliver his manifesto. That particularly applies to the Tory MPs who voted to smrmd the Boris Deal and agsinst the Boris timetable up deliver Brexit by 31st October, again had they been allowed to stand again Boris could not deliver his Deal as stands.
Had Boris stuck to the DUP line and refused to back a Northern Ireland only backstop the EU would also have refused a Deal anyway, while his current Deal as the polling shows is much more popular with Leavers than the May Deal, hence the big current Tory poll lead. So Boris has been absolutely right
For once we agree and of course the labour mps who voted for the second reading and against the programme motion were playing politics hoping to change the deal to a customs union/referendum in the committee stage without realising this would wreck the deal resulting in a GE or no deal
Just as the ERG stupidly voted down TM deal, so the labour mps voting down the programme motion effectively did the same and most certainly have now precipitated a GE and put their seats in peril
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
This is a very difficult situation for the EU .
They don’t want to be seen to be meddling , they don’t want no deal but they’d like the deal to go through ASAP .
If they offer anything different from the 3 month extension then MPs have to vote on it , the Benn Act does though allow an early termination of the extension .
I think what they might do is to try and find a form of words which gives the 3 month extension but puts in something which stresses just how fed up they are with the situation.
And also suggests that unless something changes in the UK ie as an election they won’t offer any further extensions .
I think the header is open to challenge in several ways:
The reason that Johnson is in such a weak parliamentary position stems directly from two big decisions that he has made. First there was the reaction to his first Commons vote when he stripped 21 of his party’s MPs from the whip.
His weakness in Parliament is in reality similar and equal to TMay. He has passed a deal, which would indicate stronger than TMay. By stripping the whip he has made other rebels on all wings of the party more aware that there are consequences to actions. With the demos it appears positive at it enshrines his 'I am doing something about the intransigence and delay'
This was all against the background of the announcement in late August to prorogue parliament with the unstated objective of ensuring that the Commons would not sit for five weeks during a critical period. That caused an outrage which, of course, led to the Supreme Court ruling against him.
While the SC found unanimously against him, the High Court did not do so earlier. I think there is a reasonable argument that therefore the outrage was more confected than obvious as the high Court did not go in the same direction as the SC.
His aggressive refusal to follow the conventions of the UK’s unwritten constitution has hardly endeared him to parliamentarians who have sought to use whatever means there are to block him. He’s simply lost any goodwill and it is hard to see how he recovers from that.
I think this is not the way it is interrupted outside Westminster bubbles and political geek world. There is a cogent argument that he had to work for 31st October. That was the end of the extension and a renewal was not in his gift. The use or misuse of conventions cannot be levied at the Government any more than the Speaker or Benn / Letwins etc. In the world of the Demos. Out in the real world those that want remain / revoke are at least as guilty as those who want deal / no deal.
His current desire to try to get another general election is thwarted by the FTPA which effectively leaves the decision in the hands of Corbyn’s party. His assumption that oppositions would always fall in behind a general election move proved to be a huge strategic mistake.
An early election is becoming the most popular option with the Demos, so the projection of failure for this strategy may be short lived. It is possible for others to wrest the control from Corbyn, be it EU, SNP or Black Swan.
Anecdote alert, the foundation of this is unprompted discussion with my staff today. They want an early election (and know that it has to be December for it to be of any use), quick resolution and move on to the next phase. My impression is that at present they have moved very much to supporting Johnson from a previously leftward position, and are more politically aware than I can ever remember, and completely unpolled.
As per James Cleverly on R4: If the opposition parties had voted with the government we would be out by the 31st October.
So *that's* the secret of government - get the opposition parties to vote for you.
It's called 'building a consensus'; something both May and Johnson have set their faces against doing. It wouldn't normally matter that much, to be fair, as the opposition has a duty to call the government to account, but on Brexit where there are such entrenched views, reaching out to the whole opposition would have been far better than just reaching out to the DUP
63% of Republican voters now think the party should be more the party of Trump than the party of Romney. Only 30% think it should be more the party of Romney.
As per James Cleverly on R4: If the opposition parties had voted with the government we would be out by the 31st October.
So *that's* the secret of government - get the opposition parties to vote for you.
It's called 'building a consensus'; something both May and Johnson have set their faces against doing. It wouldn't normally matter that much, to be fair, as the opposition has a duty to call the government to account, but on Brexit where there are such entrenched views, reaching out to the whole opposition would have been far better than just reaching out to the DUP
Yes. I'm afraid that ship sailed literally years ago.
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Interesting. The reason I think they will play it by the book (eg. Jan 31) is because anything else, and in particular a shortened extension, would, in their terms, be interfering in the politics of another (still) Member State.
Agree - they will play a VERY straight bat. Anything else will be “twisted by knaves to make traps for fools”.
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Don’t forget revoke if parliament sees the new suggested deal is crap and don’t want to leave no deal then they can revoke.
Going on about Leavers, empire nostalgia and a white empire isn't exactly dialling down on rhetoric.
It's a straightforward description of the motivation and nothing to do with rhetoric. Extraordinarily, it's never suggested to include, say, Singapore in this Canzuk vision. Or even that this club of countries could expand.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand are far away from us. Their economies are very different from our own, being resource economies. But they have an appeal to a certain type of batty Leaver. That appeal is pretty obvious.
Over in the states do we have any idea how Trump's pullback in Syria is going down with the voters. I mean all the focus is on how Romney etc see it - but is there any specific polling on this issue. The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist. I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
Only 47% of American voters now see Syria as a vital security interest for the US and they are now mainly Democrats.
Now ISIS is beaten most Americans are happy to leave Syria to Assad, Putin and the Kurds and do not care if Turkey secures its border either
I'm not sure the first clause of your last sentence is correct. ISIS is I suspect, rather like Hydra; capable of regeneration, especially when there's some secret financial support available.
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Interesting. The reason I think they will play it by the book (eg. Jan 31) is because anything else, and in particular a shortened extension, would, in their terms, be interfering in the politics of another (still) Member State.
Exactly but I do wonder why Benn Burt chose 31/1 given the timing of an election would be problematic and too short for a referendum.
A short time ago you were lamenting how febrile political discourse is now and the increased hurling of insults.
What is incorrect about his evaluation?
It is a very selective number of former colonies, noticeable for the exclusion of other members of the commonwealth that are majority non white.
It seems pretty obvious to me that the idea of a Australia, NZ, Canada, UK FoM zone is centred around whiteness rather than anything else.
“Anything else”?
Like similar levels of economic development and relatively small populations, for example?
Or do you think we should have FOM with 1.4 billion Indians where GDP/capita is one twentieth of the UK?
In any case the “old Commonwealth” countries are far from “white” and I doubt would be keen on FoM with us.....
This is not an economic argument, this is just a fancier way of saying "if we have FoM with India lots of poor brown people will come to the UK for better jobs, and that is unacceptable, but the potential for movement of middle class white people is fine"
Over in the states do we have any idea how Trump's pullback in Syria is going down with the voters. I mean all the focus is on how Romney etc see it - but is there any specific polling on this issue. The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist. I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
Mr. Glenn, it's an odd 'English Empire' that had Scottish Prime Ministers and Chancellors not a decade ago.
It also rather neglects the fact that England's the only part of the UK without any devolution (there's a Welsh report out today calling for Wales to have its own laws, as per Scotland).
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
This is a very difficult situation for the EU .
They don’t want to be seen to be meddling , they don’t want no deal but they’d like the deal to go through ASAP .
If they offer anything different from the 3 month extension then MPs have to vote on it , the Benn Act does though allow an early termination of the extension .
I think what they might do is to try and find a form of words which gives the 3 month extension but puts in something which stresses just how fed up they are with the situation.
And also suggests that unless something changes in the UK ie as an election they won’t offer any further extensions .
Over in the states do we have any idea how Trump's pullback in Syria is going down with the voters. I mean all the focus is on how Romney etc see it - but is there any specific polling on this issue. The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist. I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
Exactly a month ago, Trump had a net approval rating in 538's average of all polls of -9.9. Today it's -13.6, appreciably worse in the space of a month and utterly lousy at this stage of his term by historical standards of post war presidents.
Who knows though whether it's Syria or the the impeachment revelations or something else that is adding to Trump's polling woes recently. I can't point you to any specific polling. I suspect that you are largely right about Syria and the US public is less concerned than we might imagine, but it has clearly prompted several key Republicans such as McConnell to take opposing stances in public. The sight of unprecedented criticism from normally loyal sources he can't easily dismiss could have a wider impact on those fools who still consider him credible.
Exactly as I predicted, I thought even she would have tried to put some semblence of decency on it and waited till she was not an MSP, typical Tory and she in particular has always been about Ruth.
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Don’t forget revoke if parliament sees the new suggested deal is crap and don’t want to leave no deal then they can revoke.
Revoke is only possible if the Lib Dems win power
Parliament if faced with two equally disasterous options could revoke with a simple majority.
Most mentions of “empire” come from Remainers - usually with gratuitous insults they somehow believe reflect on their target rather than themselves...
Paradoxically many Remainers are more attached to the English empire on these islands than Brexiteers, who then get labelled English nationalists.
We are not "attached" to Empire. We are just willing to talk about it because history exists and it is easy to see the connections. Denying internalised British Exceptionalism due to Empire on the part of some Leavers doesn't make it true, it just means those people are in denial.
I agree with those saying the EU will agree 31 January. The EU have been pretty much straight down the line on all of this, and I don't see it changing at this stage.
Exactly as I predicted, I thought even she would have tried to put some semblence of decency on it and waited till she was not an MSP, typical Tory and she in particular has always been about Ruth.
They don't try to hide it. Tories are always at the trough, and the shy ones just get shoved out of the way. It's survival of the fattest in their world.
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Interesting. The reason I think they will play it by the book (eg. Jan 31) is because anything else, and in particular a shortened extension, would, in their terms, be interfering in the politics of another (still) Member State.
Exactly but I do wonder why Benn Burt chose 31/1 given the timing of an election would be problematic and too short for a referendum.
It was and is a stupid date. Not one that stands up to 5 seconds of scrutiny.
They either have not got the brains to see unintended consequences and are stupid or they have a hidden agenda to achieve something else.
Going on about Leavers, empire nostalgia and a white empire isn't exactly dialling down on rhetoric.
It's a straightforward description of the motivation and nothing to do with rhetoric. Extraordinarily, it's never suggested to include, say, Singapore in this Canzuk vision. Or even that this club of countries could expand.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand are far away from us. Their economies are very different from our own, being resource economies. But they have an appeal to a certain type of batty Leaver. That appeal is pretty obvious.
To be honest Alastair my family has great affection for Canada, Australia and New Zealand and indeed our eldest son has Kiwi citizenship and now lives with his Canadian wife in Vancouver.
We have been privileged to visit all three of these countries several times but equally one of our favourite countries is Italy and we do not seek to create a divide of our affection between EU countries and Commonweath ones.
Over in the states do we have any idea how Trump's pullback in Syria is going down with the voters. I mean all the focus is on how Romney etc see it - but is there any specific polling on this issue. The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist. I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
Now ISIS is beaten
There’s a hostage to fortune!
Well it was Putin, Assad and the Kurds who did most of the beating of ISIS anyway, so leave Syria to them
A short time ago you were lamenting how febrile political discourse is now and the increased hurling of insults.
What is incorrect about his evaluation?
It is a very selective number of former colonies, noticeable for the exclusion of other members of the commonwealth that are majority non white.
It seems pretty obvious to me that the idea of a Australia, NZ, Canada, UK FoM zone is centred around whiteness rather than anything else.
“Anything else”?
Like similar levels of economic development and relatively small populations, for example?
Or do you think we should have FOM with 1.4 billion Indians where GDP/capita is one twentieth of the UK?
In any case the “old Commonwealth” countries are far from “white” and I doubt would be keen on FoM with us.....
This is not an economic argument, this is just a fancier way of saying "if we have FoM with India lots of poor brown people will come to the UK for better jobs, and that is unacceptable, but the potential for movement of middle class white people is fine"
If you check the “British Diaspora” - where Brits have chosen to go and live - you will see that Australia New Zealand and Canada are many orders of magnitude more popular than “New Commonwealth” countries. Indeed, more have chosen Australia than the entire EU. Why not aim for FOM with countries where people want to go and live? The “geographical proximity” argument which may apply to trade does not apply here - the most popular destination for Brits could hardly be further away!
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Don’t forget revoke if parliament sees the new suggested deal is crap and don’t want to leave no deal then they can revoke.
Revoke is only possible if the Lib Dems win power
Parliament if faced with two equally disasterous options could revoke with a simple majority.
And revoke being the third disasterious option without a referendum or GE approval
Interesting comment from an EU diplomat that the EU have no desire for a leaders council meeting but said that the mood has really changed now with people just wanting it done. Apparently they were at first critical of Boris but now they are critical of the labour opposition for blocking it. Basically they see Boris as an ally and everyone wants the UK to leave as soon as possible
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
Which is why BJ is waiting before making his next move. The EU will now frame the next stage of the game. Short technical delay = boris deal or no deal. Jan 31 flextension = try and get out for mid november. Flat jan 31 = election push. I fancy the first of those
Don’t forget revoke if parliament sees the new suggested deal is crap and don’t want to leave no deal then they can revoke.
Revoke is only possible if the Lib Dems win power
Parliament if faced with two equally disasterous options could revoke with a simple majority.
But they aren't equal. Revoke is a way, way more disastrous option.
Most mentions of “empire” come from Remainers - usually with gratuitous insults they somehow believe reflect on their target rather than themselves...
Paradoxically many Remainers are more attached to the English empire on these islands than Brexiteers, who then get labelled English nationalists.
We are not "attached" to Empire. We are just willing to talk about it because history exists and it is easy to see the connections. Denying internalised British Exceptionalism due to Empire on the part of some Leavers doesn't make it true, it just means those people are in denial.
Maybe my point wasn’t clear. The “English empire” was a reference to the union, without which we wold apparently have “no meaningful role on the world stage”.
Over in the states do we have any idea how Trump's pullback in Syria is going down with the voters. I mean all the focus is on how Romney etc see it - but is there any specific polling on this issue. The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist. I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
Now ISIS is beaten
There’s a hostage to fortune!
Well it was Putin, Assad and the Kurds who did most of the beating of ISIS anyway, so leave Syria to them
It was Putin that did most of the killing of Syrian civilians, too. He bombed civilian areas to whip up the migrant crisis, and it was very effective. Putin is worse than ISIS. Yes, I mean that. Worse.
The big picture is surely that a large and growing proportion of people simply want Boris to succeed and get this done. They are on his side - and that's the key to this. They identify with him and his struggle to get this over the line. Who identifies with Corbyn?
There is a small, passionate and vocal group that is fervently anti-Boris and anti-Brexit but nowhere near enough to win an election. This group may be significant in the future, but for now they look like bad losers simply trying to frustrate progress, Few people outside the bubble really understand what their point is. Parliament has been discussing Brexit for over three years.
Boris reminds me a bit of Ronald Reagan. Widely derided by the commentariat, but possessed of a sense of direction, and widely liked for his sunny and positive disposition. He may be a bit of a bounder but he's "our bounder".
Most mentions of “empire” come from Remainers - usually with gratuitous insults they somehow believe reflect on their target rather than themselves...
Paradoxically many Remainers are more attached to the English empire on these islands than Brexiteers, who then get labelled English nationalists.
No, they just use the 'threat' to the Union as an excuse to block Brexit, pre Brexit most Remainers could not care less whether Scotlsnd voted for independence or Northern Ireland for a united Ireland given England would still be in the EU anyway.
Plus an Empire is not built on consent but military and police force, Scotland voted against independence in 2014 and most Northern Ireland MPs are DUP so it is a Union not an Empire
63% of Republican voters now think the party should be more the party of Trump than the party of Romney. Only 30% think it should be more the party of Romney.
Just seen Swinson's tweet. Obviously chasing the woke student vote there. A bit demeaning from a party leader IMO but maybe she doesn't care about that.
she is useless and desperate to confirm it at any opportunity
Comments
OK, so what about the MPs who voted for it? Are they a disgrace?
Leave had the side of a bus.
On the specific point of 'empire nostalgia': this is brought up almost exclusively by those who invent it as a strawman to lambast those who wish to leave.
A competent campaign would've seen Remain win. It's bizarre given the weight of the political class on its side they were so poor.
'You are just exposing your own ignorance with comments like that.
The Government lost ground in the election campaigns of 1959 - 1964 - 1966 - 1970 - both 1974 elections - 1987 - and certainly 2017. Very little change in 1955 or 2005. The polling data is available - should you wish to lower yourself to consult it.
To be clear , I am asserting that on Polling Day incumbent Governments fare less well than implied by polls at the time the election was announced. To take the 1959 example - when Macmillan announced the election in the first week of September , there were polls giving the Tories a lead of 7% - 9%. On election day - 8th October - the Tories won by 5%.. Check the data yourself!'
Ydoethur said
'I have. Repeatedly. And you are wrong and I am right. Try Butler and butler, British Political Facts. Or the excellent series British General Elections. You will find that your internet sources are not all they might be.l and you are merely appealing to your own prejudices when citing them.'
You need to look again.
Here are the polling figures for early Sept 1959
Sept 8 Gallup Con 48.3% Lab 41.9% Con lead 6.4%
Sept 14 NOP Con 51.2% Lab 42.9% Con lead 8.3%
Sept 15 Express Con 50.8% Lab 42.7% Con Lead 8.1%
Sept 15 Gallup Con 50.5% Lab 43.5% Con lead 7.0%
Oct 8 Result Con 48.8% Lab 44.6% Con lead 4.2%,
Ergo there was a swing against the Government in the course of the campaign.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1187280448331878407
The principle point that needed hammering from day one is that this is all about the Political future not essentially the Economic one. The EU exist to propagate more EU, the building blocks continue until individual Governments become subservient and ultimate European power is installed.
Unfortunately negotiating an FTA continues the focus on trade, instead of trying to unshackle politically first via EEA/EFTA.
Indeed, an increasing number of voters seem willing to allow Johnson any power imaginable to dodge parliamentary scrutiny in service of "Getting It Done", which he can drag out to include the transition and any FTA negotiations if he so wishes.
Boo fucking hoo.
Edit: found the link, huzzah!
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
Any idea what the timescale is for the EU deciding on the extension? Or have I missed it slready?
https://www.businessinsider.com/empire-2-0-liam-fox-commonwealth-nations-post-brexit-trade-2017-3?IR=T
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1187276757835145216
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/23/brexit-european-leaders-back-call-for-delay-end-january-extension
The USA is a very insular country, it's team sports apart from the rest of the world - but in foreign policy terms it's been very expansionist.
I wonder if Trump's policy now whilst horrifying the great and the good might be going down rather better with voters than everyone is assuming ?
“ This Parliament will never be capable of making a decision “.
A short time ago you were lamenting how febrile political discourse is now and the increased hurling of insults.
If true it provides a real insight into the why Macron, and it is believed Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain support him with the Dutch leaning towards a much shorter extension.
Who knows but it is clear the EU are divided and it is not a leave supporting media propaganda
It is a very selective number of former colonies, noticeable for the exclusion of other members of the commonwealth that are majority non white.
It seems pretty obvious to me that the idea of a Australia, NZ, Canada, UK FoM zone is centred around whiteness rather than anything else.
As per James Cleverly on R4: If the opposition parties had voted with the government we would be out by the 31st October.
So *that's* the secret of government - get the opposition parties to vote for you.
Had the 21 Tory rebels who voted for the Benn Act been allowed to stand again then even had Boris won a majority after the next general election on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket, he could not deliver his manifesto. That particularly applies to the Tory MPs who voted to smrmd the Boris Deal and agsinst the Boris timetable up deliver Brexit by 31st October, again had they been allowed to stand again Boris could not deliver his Deal as stands.
Had Boris stuck to the DUP line and refused to back a Northern Ireland only backstop the EU would also have refused a Deal anyway, while his current Deal as the polling shows is much more popular with Leavers than the May Deal, hence the big current Tory poll lead. So Boris has been absolutely right
Dear Mr President
The UK parliament has passed the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019. Its provisions now require Her Majesty’s government to seek an extension of the period provided under article 50(3) of the treaty on European Union, including as applied by article 106a of the Euratom treaty, currently due to expire at 11pm GMT on 31 October 2019, until 11pm GMT on 31 January 2020.
I am writing therefore to inform the European council that the United Kingdom is seeking a further extension to the period provided under article 50(3) of the treaty on European Union, including as applied by article 106a of the Euratom treaty. The United Kingdom proposes that this period should end at 11pm GMT on 31 January 2020. If the parties are able to ratify before this date, the government proposes that the period should be terminated early.
Yours sincerely,
Prime minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/israel_the_middle_east/democrats_value_syria_a_lot_more_than_gop_unaffiliated_voters
Now ISIS is beaten most Americans are happy to leave Syria to Assad, Putin and the Kurds and do not care if Turkey secures its border either
In any case I find this position so needy and undignified. The implication is that we want those countries to have a closer relationship with us than they have with the rest of Europe, like a controlling parent that seeks validation from their children.
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/october_2019/gop_remains_trump_s_not_romney_s_party
That is almost exactly the same margin as Tory members voted for Boris over Hunt
Like similar levels of economic development and relatively small populations, for example?
Or do you think we should have FOM with 1.4 billion Indians where GDP/capita is one twentieth of the UK?
In any case the “old Commonwealth” countries are far from “white” and I doubt would be keen on FoM with us.....
Going on about Leavers, empire nostalgia and a white empire isn't exactly dialling down on rhetoric.
Just as the ERG stupidly voted down TM deal, so the labour mps voting down the programme motion effectively did the same and most certainly have now precipitated a GE and put their seats in peril
They don’t want to be seen to be meddling , they don’t want no deal but they’d like the deal to go through ASAP .
If they offer anything different from the 3 month extension then MPs have to vote on it , the Benn Act does though allow an early termination of the extension .
I think what they might do is to try and find a form of words which gives the 3 month extension but puts in something which stresses just how fed up they are with the situation.
And also suggests that unless something changes in the UK ie as an election they won’t offer any further extensions .
The reason that Johnson is in such a weak parliamentary position stems directly from two big decisions that he has made. First there was the reaction to his first Commons vote when he stripped 21 of his party’s MPs from the whip.
His weakness in Parliament is in reality similar and equal to TMay. He has passed a deal, which would indicate stronger than TMay. By stripping the whip he has made other rebels on all wings of the party more aware that there are consequences to actions. With the demos it appears positive at it enshrines his 'I am doing something about the intransigence and delay'
This was all against the background of the announcement in late August to prorogue parliament with the unstated objective of ensuring that the Commons would not sit for five weeks during a critical period. That caused an outrage which, of course, led to the Supreme Court ruling against him.
While the SC found unanimously against him, the High Court did not do so earlier. I think there is a reasonable argument that therefore the outrage was more confected than obvious as the high Court did not go in the same direction as the SC.
His aggressive refusal to follow the conventions of the UK’s unwritten constitution has hardly endeared him to parliamentarians who have sought to use whatever means there are to block him. He’s simply lost any goodwill and it is hard to see how he recovers from that.
I think this is not the way it is interrupted outside Westminster bubbles and political geek world. There is a cogent argument that he had to work for 31st October. That was the end of the extension and a renewal was not in his gift. The use or misuse of conventions cannot be levied at the Government any more than the Speaker or Benn / Letwins etc. In the world of the Demos. Out in the real world those that want remain / revoke are at least as guilty as those who want deal / no deal.
His current desire to try to get another general election is thwarted by the FTPA which effectively leaves the decision in the hands of Corbyn’s party. His assumption that oppositions would always fall in behind a general election move proved to be a huge strategic mistake.
An early election is becoming the most popular option with the Demos, so the projection of failure for this strategy may be short lived. It is possible for others to wrest the control from Corbyn, be it EU, SNP or Black Swan.
Anecdote alert, the foundation of this is unprompted discussion with my staff today. They want an early election (and know that it has to be December for it to be of any use), quick resolution and move on to the next phase. My impression is that at present they have moved very much to supporting Johnson from a previously leftward position, and are more politically aware than I can ever remember, and completely unpolled.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand are far away from us. Their economies are very different from our own, being resource economies. But they have an appeal to a certain type of batty Leaver. That appeal is pretty obvious.
It also rather neglects the fact that England's the only part of the UK without any devolution (there's a Welsh report out today calling for Wales to have its own laws, as per Scotland).
Who knows though whether it's Syria or the the impeachment revelations or something else that is adding to Trump's polling woes recently. I can't point you to any specific polling. I suspect that you are largely right about Syria and the US public is less concerned than we might imagine, but it has clearly prompted several key Republicans such as McConnell to take opposing stances in public. The sight of unprecedented criticism from normally loyal sources he can't easily dismiss could have a wider impact on those fools who still consider him credible.
Biden though beats Trump 50% to 44%.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/10/23/mr-corbyn-way-safeguard-worker-rights-britain-total-escape-eu/
They either have not got the brains to see unintended consequences and are stupid or they have a hidden agenda to achieve something else.
We have been privileged to visit all three of these countries several times but equally one of our favourite countries is Italy and we do not seek to create a divide of our affection between EU countries and Commonweath ones.
And we are not 'batty' leavers
Although EU ambassadors are expected to meet tomorrow Tusk is still talking with the leaders .
If he thinks there’s no chance of agreement then he’ll call a summit .
But maybe you don't value democracy?
https://twitter.com/sebdance/status/1186970282701004800?s=21
There is a small, passionate and vocal group that is fervently anti-Boris and anti-Brexit but nowhere near enough to win an election. This group may be significant in the future, but for now they look like bad losers simply trying to frustrate progress, Few people outside the bubble really understand what their point is. Parliament has been discussing Brexit for over three years.
Boris reminds me a bit of Ronald Reagan. Widely derided by the commentariat, but possessed of a sense of direction, and widely liked for his sunny and positive disposition. He may be a bit of a bounder but he's "our bounder".
Plus an Empire is not built on consent but military and police force, Scotland voted against independence in 2014 and most Northern Ireland MPs are DUP so it is a Union not an Empire