Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Well, if you are very much a minority government, yes. Unfortunately none of our politicians are very good at building a bridge or a consensus and our current politics penalises those that even try.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
And it was from the PM, not parliament - it said so at the bottom of the letter that the PM sent
That's a good point.
Sincerely, PeterMannion.
If my client instructs me to send a letter from my firm to another party in a transaction, then it comes from my firm despite it being an outside instruction. If I don’t want to send it All I have to do is decline the instruction and lose the client - in other words I essentially resign from acting. Johnson was instructed to send the letter by the people he represents and did so when a legal alternative was open to him - resignation. Ergo he sent the f***ing letter.
Yo have a choice whether to send the letter or not. This letter had to be sent by law, resignation wouldn't change that, ergo Parliament wrote the letter and Parliament requested the extension and the PM had no choice in the matter.
Its true and funny but why they didnt refer to it passing second reading in the first place I dont know- some public might be confused even though cchq should not.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
Who from Laura, who from? Given how much drivel she has put out from "Sauces" (note to pedants this this is a deliberate mis-spelling for humour value) why does she bother?
Disappointed with Laura recently. She seems to treat even the most risible number 10 spin as if it's the King James.
If you were you only ever to read PB, you'd never realise that in the wider country it's Parliament and the Labour Party getting hammered for these delays.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
Hmmm. When has Nigel Foremain ever been sincere?
All the time, unless in jest, you odious idiot. It is why I detest Bozo, and have nothing but contempt for the views of his gullible fan boys such as yourself.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
If, as reported, the government is not going to bring forward any election motion next week, then the earliest election dates are 5 Dec for FTPA method (5 weeks) or 19 Dec for VONC method (7 weeks).
It's going to either a January election (with a Xmas campaign) or another cliff edge on 31 January.
Or actually try to pass its deal, but that would be crazy for some reason.
The EU's policies have been starving Africa for decades. Supporters of the EU are apologists for the starvation of Africans. Remainers are a racist starvation cult.
If, as reported, the government is not going to bring forward any election motion next week, then the earliest election dates are 5 Dec for FTPA method (5 weeks) or 19 Dec for VONC method (7 weeks).
It's going to either a January election (with a Xmas campaign) or another cliff edge on 31 January.
Another cliff edge. And this time he should not be bailed out with another Benn Act. Force HIM to make the decision - WTO exit or further extension. It kills him either way.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
no but it would prevent him from being the person that sent it. Get over it, he is conning you. You are happy to be conned. You either like having a liar as a PM, or at least you maybe think it is a necessary evil.
@Philip_Thompson Boris sent the letter. Whether he wrote it or not is inconsequential. We were told repeatedly that there would be no extension and that Boris would rather resign than send the letter.
That was clearly rubbish.
So what? The public knows stupid infantile tactics by the remain lobby when they see them. Which, so far as one can tell from the polls, appear to be doing much more damage to Parliament's reputation and to the Labour Party than to Johnson.
The electorate will have their day in court with the politicians. Have no fear.
The EU's policies have been starving Africa for decades. Supporters of the EU are apologists for the starvation of Africans. Remainers are a racist starvation cult.
A post that demonstrates the damaging effect of fake news.
The EU's policies have been starving Africa for decades. Supporters of the EU are apologists for the starvation of Africans. Remainers are a racist starvation cult.
A post that demonstrates the damaging effect of fake news.
@Philip_Thompson Boris sent the letter. Whether he wrote it or not is inconsequential. We were told repeatedly that there would be no extension and that Boris would rather resign than send the letter.
That was clearly rubbish.
So what? The public knows stupid infantile tactics by the remain lobby when they see them. Which, so far as one can tell from the polls, appear to be doing much more damage to Parliament's reputation and to the Labour Party than to Johnson.
The electorate will have their day in court with the politicians. Have no fear.
..and they will probably deliver another hung parliament like they did last time. Boris fan boys will once again have to change their narrative.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
no but it would prevent him from being the person that sent it. Get over it, he is conning you. You are happy to be conned. You either like having a liar as a PM, or at least you maybe think it is a necessary evil.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
no but it would prevent him from being the person that sent it. Get over it, he is conning you. You are happy to be conned. You either like having a liar as a PM, or at least you maybe think it is a necessary evil.
The letter was written Parliament A law requiring the letter be sent was passed by Parliament The PM had no legal way to prevent it from being sent.
In my book, that's Parliament's letter! You may want to believe otherwise but you're not conning anyone with your duplicity and dishonesty.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
no but it would prevent him from being the person that sent it. Get over it, he is conning you. You are happy to be conned. You either like having a liar as a PM, or at least you maybe think it is a necessary evil.
The letter was written Parliament A law requiring the letter be sent was passed by Parliament The PM had no legal way to prevent it from being sent.
In my book, that's Parliament's letter! You may want to believe otherwise but you're not conning anyone with your duplicity and dishonesty.
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
Telegraph reporting Boris could call a vote on an election as early as this evening?
Surely bollocks - the EC's extension decision is tomorrow.
Actually it all lines up timewise.
Isn't the next Parliamentary sitting day Monday? And the EC is making its decision tomorrow? And a vote is generally called the sitting day before the vote.
So timeline looks to me.
This evening: PM calls for a vote on an election. Tomorrow: EC knowing an election has been called for grants extension long enough for election. Monday: Commons must vote on whether to hold an election, having had a long enough extension already granted.
The full weekend would be dominated by election campaigning. How could the opposition hide on Monday?
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
It might have been but it hasn't. Like you I'm stunned it keeps being brought up.
Woah hang on, Mr Thompson, be careful about using big words. I have no duplicity here, and I am not being dishonest about anything. You want to convince yourself of that fine, but you are legally and politically wrong. Bozo sent the letter. He might have been forced to from his perspective, but his aides sent it, on his behalf. Duplicity and dishonesty are things that are very much in your camp mate, and you are clearly comfortable with them.
I Didn't think EU would drop backstop Ii Thought Boris do or die pledge would mean he had to resign
Boris: A regulatory border down the Irish Sea is unacceptable, even if it’s temporary. EU: What other solution do you propose? Boris: How about a customs border as well, and make it permanent? EU: OK Boris: I win! I forced them to drop the backstop!
Telegraph reporting Boris could call a vote on an election as early as this evening?
Surely bollocks - the EC's extension decision is tomorrow.
Actually it all lines up timewise.
Isn't the next Parliamentary sitting day Monday? And the EC is making its decision tomorrow? And a vote is generally called the sitting day before the vote.
So timeline looks to me.
This evening: PM calls for a vote on an election. Tomorrow: EC knowing an election has been called for grants extension long enough for election. Monday: Commons must vote on whether to hold an election, having had a long enough extension already granted.
The full weekend would be dominated by election campaigning. How could the opposition hide on Monday?
And when Johnson fails again to win the required 2/3 majority?
If we stop and think for a minute Boris cannot programme next week before the EU Council decision as even now Sky's Europe reporter is saying France continues their hard line stance and other reports say Belgium, Luxemboug, Spain and even possibly the Dutch will not agree a long extension. So much so it is still uncertain whether a leaders face to face meeting will be needed on monday
In those circumstances Boris's decision will evolve around a short extension which becomes this deal v no deal or a long extension to 31st January which would allow the opposition to shred the deal and therefore a GE is his only choice
I should say it is a huge gamble for Boris as there is no way of knowing whether it will change the maths and may just return a majority remain HOC which could seek an extension to hold a referendum. On the other hand it could see the present labour party shredded and the end of Corbyn as it's leader
I know some on here are dismayed I have rejoined the party but it is not about Boris for me. Anyone who follows my posts will see I have been implacably opposed to no deal and Boris has achieved a deal, warts and all, that takes no deal off the table fulfilling my desire to see the referendum result respected, even though I voted remain
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
It might have been but it hasn't. Like you I'm stunned it keeps being brought up.
I think it was Mr Thompson who brought it up. I think Mr Luckyguy's analysis is fair, except the suggestion that it is "remainers" who brought it up. It was more commentary on Mr Thompson's Comical Ali-like insistence that BoZo didn't send the letter.
Telegraph reporting Boris could call a vote on an election as early as this evening?
Surely bollocks - the EC's extension decision is tomorrow.
Actually it all lines up timewise.
Isn't the next Parliamentary sitting day Monday? And the EC is making its decision tomorrow? And a vote is generally called the sitting day before the vote.
So timeline looks to me.
This evening: PM calls for a vote on an election. Tomorrow: EC knowing an election has been called for grants extension long enough for election. Monday: Commons must vote on whether to hold an election, having had a long enough extension already granted.
The full weekend would be dominated by election campaigning. How could the opposition hide on Monday?
And when Johnson fails again to win the required 2/3 majority?
How will he?
Having had the extension granted, how will opposition MPs hide from the electorate?
Telegraph reporting Boris could call a vote on an election as early as this evening?
Surely bollocks - the EC's extension decision is tomorrow.
Actually it all lines up timewise.
Isn't the next Parliamentary sitting day Monday? And the EC is making its decision tomorrow? And a vote is generally called the sitting day before the vote.
So timeline looks to me.
This evening: PM calls for a vote on an election. Tomorrow: EC knowing an election has been called for grants extension long enough for election. Monday: Commons must vote on whether to hold an election, having had a long enough extension already granted.
The full weekend would be dominated by election campaigning. How could the opposition hide on Monday?
And when Johnson fails again to win the required 2/3 majority?
How will he?
Having had the extension granted, how will opposition MPs hide from the electorate?
By simply abstaining! They can reasonably say -' Let us now proceed with WAIB'.
All this knockabout on the letter - he SENT it! Just that the Benn Act gives him a fig leaf for his failure to do or die. Which is a shame. Next time - 31 Jan - let's not give him another one. Let's make him own the choice between WTO Brexit and more delay. See what he's made of.
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
They're not
It was a legal necessity, not a political masterstroke.
It's Brexiteers who are still whining, incessantly, about whether BoZo actually sent the letter that BoZo sent.
It doesn't make any difference, but it is revealing of their mindset.
Black really is white, BoZo really isn't a serial liar, and Brexit really is a good idea...
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
necessary evil.
The letter was written Parliament A law requiring the letter be sent was passed by Parliament The PM had no legal way to prevent it from being sent.
In my book, that's Parliament's letter! You may want to believe otherwise but you're not conning anyone with your duplicity and dishonesty.
It's the PM acting on Parliament's instructions, isn't it? That seems to be the natural inference, and the one the EU took.
This is hardly a subject for serious discussion, but it allows me the opportunity to note publicly that I have noticed a trend for official letters to be sent unsigned. I had one recently from the Police alleging a speeding offence.
I don't think I'm going to wriggle out of it by arguing about who it came from.
The EU's policies have been starving Africa for decades. Supporters of the EU are apologists for the starvation of Africans. Remainers are a racist starvation cult.
A post that demonstrates the damaging effect of fake news.
and the limited intellect of the poster.
Have you heard of Calestous Juma?
He was a Fellow of the Royal Society of London, a Foreign Associate of the US National Academy of Sciences in Washington, D.C., a Fellow of The World Academy of Sciences in Trieste in Italy, an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering in London, a Fellow of the African Academy of Sciences in Nairobi in Kenya, a Fellow of the World Academy of Art and Science in the USA, and a Fellow of the New York Academy of Sciences.
Woah hang on, Mr Thompson, be careful about using big words. I have no duplicity here, and I am not being dishonest about anything. You want to convince yourself of that fine, but you are legally and politically wrong. Bozo sent the letter. He might have been forced to from his perspective, but his aides sent it, on his behalf. Duplicity and dishonesty are things that are very much in your camp mate, and you are clearly comfortable with them.
But they aren't equal. Revoke is a way, way more disastrous option.
It really isn't. It would be quite sensible and open up more of the better routes out of this national balls-up.
The Article 50 process has worked against the UK, and continues to do so, in that it imposes a deadline without a status-quo walk-away (other than revoking).
The UK would be better off revoking, and declaring that it is committed to Norway status for at least 10 years, with full FOM and citizens' rights, and the intention to reinvoke when a joint approach to the Irish border is roadmapped. The first step of the referendum is honoured, business has stability, we lose our international pariah status, and we can get on with addressing the myriad structural issues we face. Meanwhile we convene citizens' assemblies to work out what we the people really want to do after the 10 years have passed (rejoin, continue Norway, or 3rd country status).
The UK's politics, electoral system and media ownership rules mean that this will never happen.
The EU's policies have been starving Africa for decades. Supporters of the EU are apologists for the starvation of Africans. Remainers are a racist starvation cult.
A post that demonstrates the damaging effect of fake news.
and the limited intellect of the poster.
Have you heard of Calestous Juma?
He was a Fellow of the Royal Society of London, a Foreign Associate of the US National Academy of Sciences in Washington, D.C., a Fellow of The World Academy of Sciences in Trieste in Italy, an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering in London, a Fellow of the African Academy of Sciences in Nairobi in Kenya, a Fellow of the World Academy of Art and Science in the USA, and a Fellow of the New York Academy of Sciences.
Who from Laura, who from? Given how much drivel she has put out from "Sauces" (note to pedants this this is a deliberate mis-spelling for humour value) why does she bother?
Disappointed with Laura recently. She seems to treat even the most risible number 10 spin as if it's the King James.
Laura began her role at the BBC as a credulous non-journalist, and got progressively worse from there.
But they aren't equal. Revoke is a way, way more disastrous option.
It really isn't. It would be quite sensible and open up more of the better routes out of this national balls-up.
The Article 50 process has worked against the UK, and continues to do so, in that it imposes a deadline without a status-quo walk-away (other than revoking).
The UK would be better off revoking, and declaring that it is committed to Norway status for at least 10 years, with full FOM and citizens' rights, and the intention to reinvoke when a joint approach to the Irish border is roadmapped. The first step of the referendum is honoured, business has stability, we lose our international pariah status, and we can get on with addressing the myriad structural issues we face. Meanwhile we convene citizens' assemblies to work out what we the people really want to do after the 10 years have passed (rejoin, continue Norway, or 3rd country status).
The UK's politics, electoral system and media ownership rules mean that this will never happen.
+1 - I've stated for ages that Brexit is a completely failure of a project - anyone in Business knows that there are times when a project has gone so wrong starting afresh is the only solution.
I've never seen such desperate nonsense written about the letter. It was addressed to someone, it had the PMs name and position at the end of it and it had a request in it starting with the word 'I' and was sent. For goodness sake that is a letter.
A signature is irrelevant. I communicate solely by email and attach letters. For the last 7 years I have been involved in a campaign which involves me writing to government departments and ministers. I have never signed a single letter and many I receive are unsigned. It has no relevance.
Others suggesting he didn't send it but someone else did. Probably true, but it was sent with his authority and therefore from him. You have to be an idiot to think that letters you receive from say CEOs of large companies, etc were actually sent by them personally. If it was sent without his authority he should be declaring that an imposter sent it. He hasn't.
This is absolutely desperate pathetic stuff that borders on cult following.
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
They're not
It was a legal necessity, not a political masterstroke.
It's Brexiteers who are still whining, incessantly, about whether BoZo actually sent the letter that BoZo sent.
It doesn't make any difference, but it is revealing of their mindset.
Black really is white, BoZo really isn't a serial liar, and Brexit really is a good idea...
Im afraid that is nonsense. The letter was framed and the demand made as a calculated act of attempted humiliation for Johnson.
As with so many of these infantile games the public remains resolutely unmoved. The reputations that are being damaged by all this are those of the Opposition parties in particular and Parliament in general. The Public arent fools...
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
It might have been but it hasn't. Like you I'm stunned it keeps being brought up.
I think it was Mr Thompson who brought it up. I think Mr Luckyguy's analysis is fair, except the suggestion that it is "remainers" who brought it up. It was more commentary on Mr Thompson's Comical Ali-like insistence that BoZo didn't send the letter.
It wasn't so much PB remainers I was referring to, it was the Twitteriat, as evidenced by the pasted tweet.
It is not solvable by good will and negotiation. We have to make choices and know what the options are, no deal, Boris deal, May deal, SM/CM deal, remain. In none of them are both DUP and rest of Ireland both happy. The latter two come closest to achieving that.
There are lots of Leave options. Taken together they are in a small majority (52:48). Any single one is a minority. Revoke or Referendum on ONE Leave option vs Remain cuts the Gordian Knot.
Exactly why we have been going round in circles since 2016. Slim majority for every flavour of Brexit combined, from EFTA to No Deal via the unicorns. No majority for any real-life Brexit.
Cameron has a lot to answer for for putting the country in this position. "leave" should have been clearly defined before we voted but failing that the Brexit option finally decided upon should have been subject to a ratification vote.
As it is we are stuck with having to honour the vote to leave even though a majority of the country will be opposed to what ever form it finally takes. Bonkers.
That "do or die" BS has really come back to bite Boris on his fat arse.
Yes. And he can and should be nailed with it. It was a bombastic pledge - "no ifs, no buts" - that he himself made totemic and he has failed to honour it.
If he can now be held in aspic for a prolonged period, no Brexit, no GE, able only to trash talk, then as that magic 31 Oct date recedes into the distance, there is every chance that more and more people will start to see through him. He will be transformed from the Incredible Hulk to the Wizard of Oz, with the electorate as Dorothy.
And when the transformation is complete, Corbyn calls that election. April 2020.
Bit highlighted above is likely to have the inverse effect that you desire. It will see support and votes seep away from those causing a stagnation in progress.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
And it was from the PM, not parliament - it said so at the bottom of the letter that the PM sent
That's a good point.
Sincerely, PeterMannion.
If my client instructs me to send a letter from my firm to another party in a transaction, then it comes from my firm despite it being an outside instruction. If I don’t want to send it All I have to do is decline the instruction and lose the client - in other words I essentially resign from acting. Johnson was instructed to send the letter by the people he represents and did so when a legal alternative was open to him - resignation. Ergo he sent the f***ing letter.
Yo have a choice whether to send the letter or not. This letter had to be sent by law, resignation wouldn't change that, ergo Parliament wrote the letter and Parliament requested the extension and the PM had no choice in the matter.
Please, for once in your life take a moment to read a post (and indeed an Act) rather than quote back what you think it says.
Yes, the legislation mandated the Government, specifically the Prime Minister. to send the letter. It was an instruction to whoever holds the office at the time. It doesn’t personally name Mr Johnson, who promised, personally, not to send an extension request, so to keep his promise he could have chosen to resign and let his successor send it instead. He did not, as usual, keep his promise. He sent the letter he was required to send by virtue of his office, the keeping of which office is more important to him the keeping of his promises.
Similarly, if I refuse to send a letter on behalf of a client then he will just get another solicitor to do so. I can choose whether to keep the job or break my word. Exactly the same option open to Johnson and any individual whose employer instructs him to something contrary to his conscience.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
necessary evil.
The letter was written Parliament A law requiring the letter be sent was passed by Parliament The PM had no legal way to prevent it from being sent.
In my book, that's Parliament's letter! You may want to believe otherwise but you're not conning anyone with your duplicity and dishonesty.
It's the PM acting on Parliament's instructions, isn't it? That seems to be the natural inference, and the one the EU took.
This is hardly a subject for serious discussion, but it allows me the opportunity to note publicly that I have noticed a trend for official letters to be sent unsigned. I had one recently from the Police alleging a speeding offence.
I don't think I'm going to wriggle out of it by arguing about who it came from.
The Public clearly understand the letter is Parliament's. That's all that matters.
Woah hang on, Mr Thompson, be careful about using big words. I have no duplicity here, and I am not being dishonest about anything. You want to convince yourself of that fine, but you are legally and politically wrong. Bozo sent the letter. He might have been forced to from his perspective, but his aides sent it, on his behalf. Duplicity and dishonesty are things that are very much in your camp mate, and you are clearly comfortable with them.
His aides sent it on the legislation's behalf.
If they had it would have come from parliament. It didn't it had the PMs name at the end of it.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
Oh dear, you so want to believe. It is still his choice. He could resign. It has all the integrity of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"
Would his resigning have prevented the letter Parliament sent from being sent?
no but it would prevent him from being the person that sent it. Get over it, he is conning you. You are happy to be conned. You either like having a liar as a PM, or at least you maybe think it is a necessary evil.
The letter was written Parliament A law requiring the letter be sent was passed by Parliament The PM had no legal way to prevent it from being sent.
In my book, that's Parliament's letter! You may want to believe otherwise but you're not conning anyone with your duplicity and dishonesty.
The letter came from the PM
It was sent by the PM
Ergo, it is the PM's letter
In one of the most tedious arguments ever, this is a draw. You are both right. It was a Boris letter. It is widely seen as Parliaments letter.
Woah hang on, Mr Thompson, be careful about using big words. I have no duplicity here, and I am not being dishonest about anything. You want to convince yourself of that fine, but you are legally and politically wrong. Bozo sent the letter. He might have been forced to from his perspective, but his aides sent it, on his behalf. Duplicity and dishonesty are things that are very much in your camp mate, and you are clearly comfortable with them.
His aides sent it on the legislation's behalf.
If they had it would have come from parliament. It didn't it had the PMs name at the end of it.
The legislation put the PM's name at the end of it.
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
It might have been but it hasn't. Like you I'm stunned it keeps being brought up.
I think it was Mr Thompson who brought it up. I think Mr Luckyguy's analysis is fair, except the suggestion that it is "remainers" who brought it up. It was more commentary on Mr Thompson's Comical Ali-like insistence that BoZo didn't send the letter.
No, I responded to people like you who said the PM sent it. His aides sent a letter Parliament put into law.
It surprises me that remainers are still going on this. I'm disappointed the letter was sent, but I recognise that if a legal way around it could have been found, it would have. Everyone else is the same. Apart from being annoyed at the Benn act for undermining the UK's negotiating position (it's highly possible Boris' original plan would have been accepted had the alternative been no deal), the issue isn't emotive for me and I doubt it is for anyone else. Remainers seem to think forcing Boris to send the letter was some sort of political coup de grace.
It might have been but it hasn't. Like you I'm stunned it keeps being brought up.
I think it was Mr Thompson who brought it up. I think Mr Luckyguy's analysis is fair, except the suggestion that it is "remainers" who brought it up. It was more commentary on Mr Thompson's Comical Ali-like insistence that BoZo didn't send the letter.
No, I responded to people like you who said the PM sent it. His aides sent a letter Parliament put into law.
Why does the PMs name appear at the bottom of it then?
Might the people claiming the PM did not write the letter be the same people spending the last few weeks telling everyone he would not write the letter as he (well his puppet master Cummings) knew loadsa clever wheezes that would make it irrelevant?
Might the people claiming the PM did not write the letter be the same people spending the last few weeks telling everyone he would not write the letter as he (well his puppet master Cummings) knew loadsa clever wheezes that would make it irrelevant?
Woah hang on, Mr Thompson, be careful about using big words. I have no duplicity here, and I am not being dishonest about anything. You want to convince yourself of that fine, but you are legally and politically wrong. Bozo sent the letter. He might have been forced to from his perspective, but his aides sent it, on his behalf. Duplicity and dishonesty are things that are very much in your camp mate, and you are clearly comfortable with them.
His aides sent it on the legislation's behalf.
If they had it would have come from parliament. It didn't it had the PMs name at the end of it.
The legislation put the PM's name at the end of it.
Nonsense. He had a choice. Send, resign, not send and suffer the consequences. He choose the first. He choose to send. He did, not anyone else.
Might the people claiming the PM did not write the letter be the same people spending the last few weeks telling everyone he would not write the letter as he (well his puppet master Cummings) knew loadsa clever wheezes that would make it irrelevant?
I've never seen such desperate nonsense written about the letter. It was addressed to someone, it had the PMs name and position at the end of it and it had a request in it starting with the word 'I' and was sent. For goodness sake that is a letter.
A signature is irrelevant. I communicate solely by email and attach letters. For the last 7 years I have been involved in a campaign which involves me writing to government departments and ministers. I have never signed a single letter and many I receive are unsigned. It has no relevance.
Others suggesting he didn't send it but someone else did. Probably true, but it was sent with his authority and therefore from him. You have to be an idiot to think that letters you receive from say CEOs of large companies, etc were actually sent by them personally. If it was sent without his authority he should be declaring that an imposter sent it. He hasn't.
This is absolutely desperate pathetic stuff that borders on cult following.
Spot on. I cannot believe we have such a juvenile argument continuing on here
It may entertain some politicos but in the street the voter knows a letter was sent and the EU are dealing with it
If we stop and think for a minute Boris cannot programme next week before the EU Council decision as even now Sky's Europe reporter is saying France continues their hard line stance and other reports say Belgium, Luxemboug, Spain and even possibly the Dutch will not agree a long extension. So much so it is still uncertain whether a leaders face to face meeting will be needed on monday
In those circumstances Boris's decision will evolve around a short extension which becomes this deal v no deal or a long extension to 31st January which would allow the opposition to shred the deal and therefore a GE is his only choice
I should say it is a huge gamble for Boris as there is no way of knowing whether it will change the maths and may just return a majority remain HOC which could seek an extension to hold a referendum. On the other hand it could see the present labour party shredded and the end of Corbyn as it's leader
I know some on here are dismayed I have rejoined the party but it is not about Boris for me. Anyone who follows my posts will see I have been implacably opposed to no deal and Boris has achieved a deal, warts and all, that takes no deal off the table fulfilling my desire to see the referendum result respected, even though I voted remain
I'd be perfectly content if the deal were passed. As a second choice itd be fine. When he was trying to pass it before it was still before the decision on an extension were known - if he had won a vote on a new timetable he might have been able to show the bill was on its way to passing and so short extension justified, it would obviate the need for GE in advance. Instead he stops . It's quite clear his priority is a GE, by his admission, rather than achieving Brexit sooner but in a harder fight.
Its cute that @HYUFD thinks the letter being unsigned means anything.
Its cute that Remainers think the letter is Boris's or that Leavers will think it is Boris's.
You would have to be a complete moron to think that an official letter sent with the Prime minister's name on it is not his just because he childishly didn't sign it! What next? Cover your eyes and say "la la you can't see me"? BoZo certainly knows his fan base is gullible. It would be hilarious if it were not so serious.
PS this post was written by @Nigel_Foremain - it must have been, because it has his name in the signature.
no, duh, because it had to be authorised by Bozo for it to go! I would not authorise you sending a letter on my behalf ffs! It is a legal document that does not require his fat little hand to sign it!
He could have chosen to resign, but instead he has lied to the gullible few who think he hasn't authorised it, when of course he had to as his only alternative was to resign which his ego refused him to do .
He hasn't authorised it, the law did. The law trumps the PM.
He had other options and the decision on whether on not to send it was in his hands. He chose to send it.
That "do or die" BS has really come back to bite Boris on his fat arse.
Yes. And he can and should be nailed with it. It was a bombastic pledge - "no ifs, no buts" - that he himself made totemic and he has failed to honour it.
If he can now be held in aspic for a prolonged period, no Brexit, no GE, able only to trash talk, then as that magic 31 Oct date recedes into the distance, there is every chance that more and more people will start to see through him. He will be transformed from the Incredible Hulk to the Wizard of Oz, with the electorate as Dorothy.
And when the transformation is complete, Corbyn calls that election. April 2020.
That's the most cowardly piece of political strategy I've ever heard - so there's every chance Corbyn will go for it.
Of course, you're assuming that Boris and his media machine will simply stay silent and make no moves to expose that cowardice, and that the electorate will not notice Labour's public admission that they are Too Shit To Win.
For an act of supreme cowardice, it's actually quite brave!
I've never seen such desperate nonsense written about the letter. It was addressed to someone, it had the PMs name and position at the end of it and it had a request in it starting with the word 'I' and was sent. For goodness sake that is a letter.
A signature is irrelevant. I communicate solely by email and attach letters. For the last 7 years I have been involved in a campaign which involves me writing to government departments and ministers. I have never signed a single letter and many I receive are unsigned. It has no relevance.
Others suggesting he didn't send it but someone else did. Probably true, but it was sent with his authority and therefore from him. You have to be an idiot to think that letters you receive from say CEOs of large companies, etc were actually sent by them personally. If it was sent without his authority he should be declaring that an imposter sent it. He hasn't.
This is absolutely desperate pathetic stuff that borders on cult following.
It wasn't sent with his authority, it was sent with the authority of law.
It may have his title and the word I but he didn't write it, MPs did. Just because they put someone else's name in it doesn't make the letter belong to the person whose name they put on it.
Might the people claiming the PM did not write the letter be the same people spending the last few weeks telling everyone he would not write the letter as he (well his puppet master Cummings) knew loadsa clever wheezes that would make it irrelevant?
Might the people claiming the PM did not write the letter be the same people spending the last few weeks telling everyone he would not write the letter as he (well his puppet master Cummings) knew loadsa clever wheezes that would make it irrelevant?
Absolutely. It is pathetic. We all get stuff wrong, there is nothing wrong with that. This defence of the indefensible is very revealing. As I said it is a cult mentality.
That "do or die" BS has really come back to bite Boris on his fat arse.
Yes. And he can and should be nailed with it. It was a bombastic pledge - "no ifs, no buts" - that he himself made totemic and he has failed to honour it.
If he can now be held in aspic for a prolonged period, no Brexit, no GE, able only to trash talk, then as that magic 31 Oct date recedes into the distance, there is every chance that more and more people will start to see through him. He will be transformed from the Incredible Hulk to the Wizard of Oz, with the electorate as Dorothy.
And when the transformation is complete, Corbyn calls that election. April 2020.
That's the most cowardly piece of political strategy I've ever heard - so there's every chance Corbyn will go for it.
Of course, you're assuming that Boris and his media machine will simply stay silent and make no moves to expose that cowardice, and that the electorate will not notice Labour's public admission that they are Too Shit To Win.
For an act of supreme cowardice, it's actually quite brave!
Anyone who things that a given strategy will have no downside needs to seriously reconsider attempting to be strategic.
I've never seen such desperate nonsense written about the letter. It was addressed to someone, it had the PMs name and position at the end of it and it had a request in it starting with the word 'I' and was sent. For goodness sake that is a letter.
A signature is irrelevant. I communicate solely by email and attach letters. For the last 7 years I have been involved in a campaign which involves me writing to government departments and ministers. I have never signed a single letter and many I receive are unsigned. It has no relevance.
Others suggesting he didn't send it but someone else did. Probably true, but it was sent with his authority and therefore from him. You have to be an idiot to think that letters you receive from say CEOs of large companies, etc were actually sent by them personally. If it was sent without his authority he should be declaring that an imposter sent it. He hasn't.
This is absolutely desperate pathetic stuff that borders on cult following.
It wasn't sent with his authority, it was sent with the authority of law.
It may have his title and the word I but he didn't write it, MPs did. Just because they put someone else's name in it doesn't make the letter belong to the person whose name they put on it.
But they aren't equal. Revoke is a way, way more disastrous option.
It really isn't. It would be quite sensible and open up more of the better routes out of this national balls-up.
The Article 50 process has worked against the UK, and continues to do so, in that it imposes a deadline without a status-quo walk-away (other than revoking).
The UK would be better off revoking, and declaring that it is committed to Norway status for at least 10 years, with full FOM and citizens' rights, and the intention to reinvoke when a joint approach to the Irish border is roadmapped. The first step of the referendum is honoured, business has stability, we lose our international pariah status, and we can get on with addressing the myriad structural issues we face. Meanwhile we convene citizens' assemblies to work out what we the people really want to do after the 10 years have passed (rejoin, continue Norway, or 3rd country status).
The UK's politics, electoral system and media ownership rules mean that this will never happen.
+1 - I've stated for ages that Brexit is a completely failure of a project - anyone in Business knows that there are times when a project has gone so wrong starting afresh is the only solution.
This is one of those times.
How refreshing to read a little common sense, especially after all the letter-signing nonsense..
Yes, that is a perfectly sensible approach and not, I believe, very different to the view emanating from that rare fountain of Parliamentary wisdom, Kenneth Clarke.
It will not happen though because as most of us are aware, Brexit was and remains a Tory Party project for the solution of otherwise irreconcilable internal Party differences. Until it is all worked through, nothing will change.
Sorry but the debate her is a bit silly. People aren’t stupid, they can see that the letter is Parliament’s via a duty placed on the PM, which he discharged as reluctantly as lawfully possible. He therefore isn’t “blamed” and won’t be “blamed”.
The longer Parliament plays “clever” games and tries to keep him hanging, the more it will hurt Parliament and not him. If the QS is voted down, he gets to say Parliament is stopping Brexit and CYZ popular policies. If the Budget is voted down, the same.
The Budget is the key one though - folk have to stop playing silly buggers as a Finance Bill is needed.
But they aren't equal. Revoke is a way, way more disastrous option.
It really isn't. It would be quite sensible and open up more of the better routes out of this national balls-up.
The Article 50 process has worked against the UK, and continues to do so, in that it imposes a deadline without a status-quo walk-away (other than revoking).
The UK would be better off revoking, and declaring that it is committed to Norway status for at least 10 years, with full FOM and citizens' rights, and the intention to reinvoke when a joint approach to the Irish border is roadmapped. The first step of the referendum is honoured, business has stability, we lose our international pariah status, and we can get on with addressing the myriad structural issues we face. Meanwhile we convene citizens' assemblies to work out what we the people really want to do after the 10 years have passed (rejoin, continue Norway, or 3rd country status).
The UK's politics, electoral system and media ownership rules mean that this will never happen.
+1 - I've stated for ages that Brexit is a completely failure of a project - anyone in Business knows that there are times when a project has gone so wrong starting afresh is the only solution.
This is one of those times.
How refreshing to read a little common sense, especially after all the letter-signing nonsense..
Yes, that is a perfectly sensible approach and not, I believe, very different to the view emanating from that rare fountain of Parliamentary wisdom, Kenneth Clarke.
It will not happen though because as most of us are aware, Brexit was and remains a Tory Party project for the solution of otherwise irreconcilable internal Party differences. Until it is all worked through, nothing will change.
60% of Labour constituencies voted leave.
Driving round the country it doesn't seem to me that the remain/leave divide breaks on party lines.
Comments
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/24/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-set-push-christmas-election/
https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1187313091815628805
It destroys everything.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/boris-johnson-may-not-have-to-resign-if-he-loses-a-no-confidence-vote/
by Lord (Tom) Strathclyde.
If you were you only ever to read PB, you'd never realise that in the wider country it's Parliament and the Labour Party getting hammered for these delays.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/24/klobuchar-qualifies-for-november-debate-056454
The electorate will have their day in court with the politicians. Have no fear.
I Didn't think EU would drop backstop
Ii Thought Boris do or die pledge would mean he had to resign
A law requiring the letter be sent was passed by Parliament
The PM had no legal way to prevent it from being sent.
In my book, that's Parliament's letter! You may want to believe otherwise but you're not conning anyone with your duplicity and dishonesty.
It was sent by the PM
Ergo, it is the PM's letter
Isn't the next Parliamentary sitting day Monday? And the EC is making its decision tomorrow? And a vote is generally called the sitting day before the vote.
So timeline looks to me.
This evening: PM calls for a vote on an election.
Tomorrow: EC knowing an election has been called for grants extension long enough for election.
Monday: Commons must vote on whether to hold an election, having had a long enough extension already granted.
The full weekend would be dominated by election campaigning. How could the opposition hide on Monday?
EU: What other solution do you propose?
Boris: How about a customs border as well, and make it permanent?
EU: OK
Boris: I win! I forced them to drop the backstop!
In those circumstances Boris's decision will evolve around a short extension which becomes this deal v no deal or a long extension to 31st January which would allow the opposition to shred the deal and therefore a GE is his only choice
I should say it is a huge gamble for Boris as there is no way of knowing whether it will change the maths and may just return a majority remain HOC which could seek an extension to hold a referendum. On the other hand it could see the present labour party shredded and the end of Corbyn as it's leader
I know some on here are dismayed I have rejoined the party but it is not about Boris for me. Anyone who follows my posts will see I have been implacably opposed to no deal and Boris has achieved a deal, warts and all, that takes no deal off the table fulfilling my desire to see the referendum result respected, even though I voted remain
It was sent by law.
Ergo, it is Parliament's letter.
Having had the extension granted, how will opposition MPs hide from the electorate?
It was a legal necessity, not a political masterstroke.
It's Brexiteers who are still whining, incessantly, about whether BoZo actually sent the letter that BoZo sent.
It doesn't make any difference, but it is revealing of their mindset.
Black really is white, BoZo really isn't a serial liar, and Brexit really is a good idea...
This is hardly a subject for serious discussion, but it allows me the opportunity to note publicly that I have noticed a trend for official letters to be sent unsigned. I had one recently from the Police alleging a speeding offence.
I don't think I'm going to wriggle out of it by arguing about who it came from.
He was a Fellow of the Royal Society of London, a Foreign Associate of the US National Academy of Sciences in Washington, D.C., a Fellow of The World Academy of Sciences in Trieste in Italy, an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering in London, a Fellow of the African Academy of Sciences in Nairobi in Kenya, a Fellow of the World Academy of Art and Science in the USA, and a Fellow of the New York Academy of Sciences.
So not exactly intellectually limited.
And he wrote this https://capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/
The Article 50 process has worked against the UK, and continues to do so, in that it imposes a deadline without a status-quo walk-away (other than revoking).
The UK would be better off revoking, and declaring that it is committed to Norway status for at least 10 years, with full FOM and citizens' rights, and the intention to reinvoke when a joint approach to the Irish border is roadmapped. The first step of the referendum is honoured, business has stability, we lose our international pariah status, and we can get on with addressing the myriad structural issues we face. Meanwhile we convene citizens' assemblies to work out what we the people really want to do after the 10 years have passed (rejoin, continue Norway, or 3rd country status).
The UK's politics, electoral system and media ownership rules mean that this will never happen.
This is one of those times.
A signature is irrelevant. I communicate solely by email and attach letters. For the last 7 years I have been involved in a campaign which involves me writing to government departments and ministers. I have never signed a single letter and many I receive are unsigned. It has no relevance.
Others suggesting he didn't send it but someone else did. Probably true, but it was sent with his authority and therefore from him. You have to be an idiot to think that letters you receive from say CEOs of large companies, etc were actually sent by them personally. If it was sent without his authority he should be declaring that an imposter sent it. He hasn't.
This is absolutely desperate pathetic stuff that borders on cult following.
As with so many of these infantile games the public remains resolutely unmoved. The reputations that are being damaged by all this are those of the Opposition parties in particular and Parliament in general. The Public arent fools...
https://twitter.com/Byxelrok/status/1187318771188412416
Cameron has a lot to answer for for putting the country in this position. "leave" should have been clearly defined before we voted but failing that the Brexit option finally decided upon should have been subject to a ratification vote.
As it is we are stuck with having to honour the vote to leave even though a majority of the country will be opposed to what ever form it finally takes. Bonkers.
Yes, the legislation mandated the Government, specifically the Prime Minister. to send the letter. It was an instruction to whoever holds the office at the time. It doesn’t personally name Mr Johnson, who promised, personally, not to send an extension request, so to keep his promise he could have chosen to resign and let his successor send it instead. He did not, as usual, keep his promise. He sent the letter he was required to send by virtue of his office, the keeping of which office is more important to him the keeping of his promises.
Similarly, if I refuse to send a letter on behalf of a client then he will just get another solicitor to do so. I can choose whether to keep the job or break my word. Exactly the same option open to Johnson and any individual whose employer instructs him to something contrary to his conscience.
Macron is providing the cherry on the cake.
It may entertain some politicos but in the street the voter knows a letter was sent and the EU are dealing with it
Time to move on
https://twitter.com/KieranPAndrews/status/1187301954810273793
Looking at the post cited here, he's done a really *genuinely* terrible follow up on a Laura K tweet and you lot have taken it as gospel.
I might be missing something, so, yeah, anything that suggests its meant to be taken seriously?
Of course, you're assuming that Boris and his media machine will simply stay silent and make no moves to expose that cowardice, and that the electorate will not notice Labour's public admission that they are Too Shit To Win.
For an act of supreme cowardice, it's actually quite brave!
It may have his title and the word I but he didn't write it, MPs did. Just because they put someone else's name in it doesn't make the letter belong to the person whose name they put on it.
All of the whining about what BoZo did or didn't do, or could or couldn't do, or will or won't do, the one thing he could do, and didn't, was resign.
He can do that at any time.
Nobody can stop him from doing it.
It guarantees the election he says we need.
WTF is he waiting for?
It was a joke.
Lectern alert
"Anabobazina"
Oh FFS. Should have seen that one coming.
Yes, that is a perfectly sensible approach and not, I believe, very different to the view emanating from that rare fountain of Parliamentary wisdom, Kenneth Clarke.
It will not happen though because as most of us are aware, Brexit was and remains a Tory Party project for the solution of otherwise irreconcilable internal Party differences. Until it is all worked through, nothing will change.
Only from the PB Leavers.
Only on PB.
The longer Parliament plays “clever” games and tries to keep him hanging, the more it will hurt Parliament and not him. If the QS is voted down, he gets to say Parliament is stopping Brexit and CYZ popular policies. If the Budget is voted down, the same.
The Budget is the key one though - folk have to stop playing silly buggers as a Finance Bill is needed.
Driving round the country it doesn't seem to me that the remain/leave divide breaks on party lines.
As I'm dumb. What was the actual joke?