politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » These perceptions of Johnson could be critical in an election

Yellow_Submarine said:

Meanwhile back in the real world....
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/26/jaguar-land-rover-to-shut-down-uk-factories-for-a-week-in-november

Given what I've heard about their sales figures I suspect they will like a few weeks where they can lower production without making the reason too obvious.

AlastairMeeks said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

I don't think emeritus Supreme Court judges are allowed to say "don't take the piss". But I feel that we are concurring.

Sadly, the Einsteins in Number 10 don't seem to have absorbed that lesson, given the noises coming out of it.

Do you think that the case might have gone the other way (or at least not been decided unanimously) if the government had bothered to provide some justification for the long period of prorogation?

Yes I do. I found that an extraordinary display of arrogance.

It reminded me of a pensions case, actually, called Imperial Tobacco. That was the first case which introduced the implied duty of trust and confidence into pensions law. The employer was asked to give a reason for its actions and it refused point blank. Off the back of that, the judge held that its actions were improper. If they had given any view, they would probably have won the case.

Agreed.

Claiming that there were simply no legal limits on prorogation was manifestly absurd, and forced the court into crafting some.

Recidivist said:

philiph said:

Just out of Machiavellian interest on the provisions of the Benn Bill.

I understand BJ has to deliver a letter requesting extra time (with penalties to his chances in an election, in his view).

If the extra time is offered he has to accept the offer.

Having done so, and reported to Parliament and accepted the extra time is there any restriction on him sending another letter after acceptance and before 31st October saying:

'Sorry, Old Bean, we have changed our mind and withdraw our acceptance of the extension you offered to us, Love and kisses Boris'

Yes of course there is. The law requires actual compliance.

And of course, once the offer of an extension is accepted, the UK isn't free to withdraw from it unilaterally. Or at least no freer than Johnson is now to withdraw from the EU unilaterally.

RobD said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucy Powell votes against Tory recess :!
Bryant, Hillier and Harman do too.
Strange way to boost the Manc economy and get the speaker job.

Missing a few drunken Tory MPs for a couple of days is going to make sod all difference to the Manchester economy. No Deal Brexit on the other hand...

Lucy Powell last night:

"As the Member of Parliament for Manchester Central, I want the Conservative conference to go ahead—not because I want to welcome the Conservatives to our city, but because livelihoods depend on it, and I think that it is an important part of our democracy. "

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

So you wont object it to be sitting during the Labour or LD conference next year, and for the government to slip in contentious bills while their MPs are away?

If the Government had not unlawfully prorogued Parliament it wouldn't have happened. They compounded that with a disgraceful performance by Bozo and Cox yesterday. Entire blame lies with the Government's actions and behaviour.

As this Government has yet to win a vote on anything it will make sod all difference anyway.

Nobody is pretending this sets any sort of precedent

Nigelb said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

BTW Are we still waiting for the 'exciting news' Jacob Rees-Mogg promised us?

He's coming out as a Trans woman

Or defecting to the LibDems? Everyone else seems to be.

All the best people, at any rate...

In these debased days, least bad people is the best that can be said.

spudgfsh said:

Pulpstar said:

It's one of my sincerest hopes that the Lib Dems replace the Labour party as the main left of centre party.

@RochdalePioneers Good job

This labour party can not be considered left of centre any more. it's far left with left of centre members

It's hard to call the Lib Dems centre left though, given what they were prepared to go along with as part of the 2010-15 coalition government. I don't think there is a centre left party in England right now, social democrats need to figure out whether they can sign up to a leftist Labour party or a centrist Liberal Democrat party. I respect people making either choice, but when it comes to voting in a general election I think we need to be smart and think about how best to defeat the Tories and their reactionary Brexit project wherever we live.

RochdalePioneers said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

BTW Are we still waiting for the 'exciting news' Jacob Rees-Mogg promised us?

He's coming out as a Trans woman

He is announcing that he is actually a Labour party mole. His real name is Jason Smogg from a comprehensive school in Wigan and he was planted in the Tory party with the intention to hollow it out from within and help put Bozo in power to destroy the Conservatives for ever.

Chris said:

Recidivist said:

philiph said:

Just out of Machiavellian interest on the provisions of the Benn Bill.

I understand BJ has to deliver a letter requesting extra time (with penalties to his chances in an election, in his view).

If the extra time is offered he has to accept the offer.

Having done so, and reported to Parliament and accepted the extra time is there any restriction on him sending another letter after acceptance and before 31st October saying:

'Sorry, Old Bean, we have changed our mind and withdraw our acceptance of the extension you offered to us, Love and kisses Boris'

Yes of course there is. The law requires actual compliance.

And of course, once the offer of an extension is accepted, the UK isn't free to withdraw from it unilaterally. Or at least no freer than Johnson is now to withdraw from the EU unilaterally.

I thought the UK could leave at any time up to exit day?

Roger said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/johnrentoul/status/1177178770425425920?s=21

A really foolish article sponsored by the sometimes interesting John Rentoul. What would he have MPs do? Turn up in Parliament and vote to Leave the EU under the auspices of the pathological liar Boris Johnson of Red Bus/Turkish Border starting at Dover fame when they believe it would be a catastrophy?

Are our MPs just lobby fodder? Should they do as some did over Iraq? Follow a crackpot leadrwho followed an even bigger crackpot leader? It isn't their fault that the Tory government needed a Refrendum to gain a majority? Our system isn't designed for one. Come on Rentoul. Pull your socks up!

Nonsense. Parliament could have: Voted for the only deal available (TMs); Voted to compel revocation; Voted to compel a new Referendum; Made clear what credible Brexit it wanted instead of TMs; Voted for an election; Voted in a VONC and installed the government it wanted. It is open to criticism because it has done none of these things but only delayed. In doing so it has acted against the mandate it received and its own previous decisions. As the SC reminds us, parliament and not government is the sovereign body. It is accountable for its actions.

RobD said:

.

OllyT said:

RobD said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucy Powell votes against Tory recess :!
Bryant, Hillier and Harman do too.
Strange way to boost the Manc economy and get the speaker job.

Missing a few drunken Tory MPs for a couple of days is going to make sod all difference to the Manchester economy. No Deal Brexit on the other hand...

Lucy Powell last night:

"As the Member of Parliament for Manchester Central, I want the Conservative conference to go ahead—not because I want to welcome the Conservatives to our city, but because livelihoods depend on it, and I think that it is an important part of our democracy. "

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

So you wont object it to be sitting during the Labour or LD conference next year, and for the government to slip in contentious bills while their MPs are away?

If the Government had not unlawfully prorogued Parliament it wouldn't have happened. They compounded that with a disgraceful performance by Bozo and Cox yesterday. Entire blame lies with the Government's actions and behaviour.

As this Government has yet to win a vote on anything it will make sod all difference anyway.

Nobody is pretending this sets any sort of precedent

So the government does a wrong thing the best course of action is to do another wrong thing?

Yes, it won't make any difference this time around, especially with what is on the order paper, but I am thinking ahead to the next conference season. What better way for a government to get its contentious business through than by tabling it when hundreds of opposition MPs are away?

I think it's more keep Parliament open so that you can react immediately to whatever trick the person who cannot be trusted tries to pull...

eek said:

RobD said:

.

OllyT said:

RobD said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucy Powell votes against Tory recess :!
Bryant, Hillier and Harman do too.
Strange way to boost the Manc economy and get the speaker job.

Missing a few drunken Tory MPs for a couple of days is going to make sod all difference to the Manchester economy. No Deal Brexit on the other hand...

Lucy Powell last night:

"As the Member of Parliament for Manchester Central, I want the Conservative conference to go ahead—not because I want to welcome the Conservatives to our city, but because livelihoods depend on it, and I think that it is an important part of our democracy. "

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

So you wont object it to be sitting during the Labour or LD conference next year, and for the government to slip in contentious bills while their MPs are away?

If the Government had not unlawfully prorogued Parliament it wouldn't have happened. They compounded that with a disgraceful performance by Bozo and Cox yesterday. Entire blame lies with the Government's actions and behaviour.

As this Government has yet to win a vote on anything it will make sod all difference anyway.

Nobody is pretending this sets any sort of precedent

So the government does a wrong thing the best course of action is to do another wrong thing?

Yes, it won't make any difference this time around, especially with what is on the order paper, but I am thinking ahead to the next conference season. What better way for a government to get its contentious business through than by tabling it when hundreds of opposition MPs are away?

I think it's more keep Parliament open so that you can react immediately to whatever trick the person who cannot be trusted tries to pull...

Given it has similarly long breaks over the weekend I don't find that particularly compelling.

felix said:

OllyT said:

felix said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucy Powell votes against Tory recess :!
Bryant, Hillier and Harman do too.
Strange way to boost the Manc economy and get the speaker job.

Missing a few drunken Tory MPs for a couple of days is going to make sod all difference to the Manchester economy. No Deal Brexit on the other hand...

Lucy Powell last night:

"As the Member of Parliament for Manchester Central, I want the Conservative conference to go ahead—not because I want to welcome the Conservatives to our city, but because livelihoods depend on it, and I think that it is an important part of our democracy. "

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

And the precedent is now set for future years - Parliament can sit through all party conferences except the Tory one. It'll look really clever if that was to happen.

Surely even you can see that this is a one off and a direct result of the Tories unlawfully proroguing Parliament. Had the government demonstrated a scintilla of contrition yesterday it could easily have been avoided

Surely even you can see that a chance for sensible magnaminity on the part of the polarised and petty could have done much to dial down the nonsense. Even Jess Philips tweet goes a little way in the right direction.

You mean like Bozo and Cox did yesterday? As I said they set the tone yesterday

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I've joined the Liberal Democrats

Who were you supporting before?

Blair I think

Okay, thanks. I find it difficult to remember the party affiliations of everyone on PB.

spudgfsh said:

None of the opposition parties are going to do anything that can risk (or in this case cause) a no-deal brexit.

They could have permanently removed the chance of no-deal three times. Instead they kept no-deal on the table, and indeed the legal default.

Mr. (Miss?) Kirk, quite.

To govern is to choose. Parliament has decided to avoid making any decisions at all.

AlastairMeeks said:

It reminded me of a pensions case, actually, called Imperial Tobacco. That was the first case which introduced the implied duty of trust and confidence into pensions law. The employer was asked to give a reason for its actions and it refused point blank. Off the back of that, the judge held that its actions were improper. If they had given any view, they would probably have won the case.

When Hanson bought the company explicitly to rape the Imperial pension fund?

Aparently the first tranche of 20 More United candidate recommendations is going out next week. Anyone who donates to the crowdfunder gets to vote yeah/nay on each recommendation with a simple 50% + 1 needed for it to carry. We know this ' works ' as they organised it last time. What's interesting is whether they can pull off the massively increased scale they are planning as well as offering candidate funding outside the spending limits period.

Nigel_Foremain said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

BTW Are we still waiting for the 'exciting news' Jacob Rees-Mogg promised us?

He's coming out as a Trans woman

He is announcing that he is actually a Labour party mole. His real name is Jason Smogg from a comprehensive school in Wigan and he was planted in the Tory party with the intention to hollow it out from within and help put Bozo in power to destroy the Conservatives for ever.

Nonsense - he was trained in a facsimile of Eton, buried in a giant cavern under the FSB's Lubyanka headquarters.

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1177166970636132352?s=20

LibDems take Yardley by 10%. Bye bye Jess.....

Still, with the pay-off for losing your seat you can at least afford a printer.

RochdalePioneers said:

AndyJS said:

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I've joined the Liberal Democrats

Who were you supporting before?

Blair I think

Okay, thanks. I find it difficult to remember the party affiliations of everyone on PB.

I voted for Corbyn and Brexit...

Blimey!!!

algarkirk said:

Perhaps he thinks if he asks for both he might get one of them. BTW I still think it is likely he is going for a late deal; and that the chance that ultimately we will remain is now a bit over 50%. I wonder if part of the confected and bogus row over language is cover and excuse for not supporting a Tory deal in October.

Ah yes, it was me and you who thought a Deal was his real plan, wasn't it? You're on your own now, I'm afraid. I'm just seeing too much evidence to the contrary. If he were to win a thumping majority in a Brexit general election, would he then get serious about a Deal? Maybe, but I'm doubting even that.

It's a bit like when Trump won -

"Surely he's not really so unhinged?"
"Surely it's mainly an act?"
"Surely he will cut a lot of the crap when he's in office?"

But pretty soon the awful truth dawned. WYSIWYG.

kinabalu said:

algarkirk said:

Perhaps he thinks if he asks for both he might get one of them. BTW I still think it is likely he is going for a late deal; and that the chance that ultimately we will remain is now a bit over 50%. I wonder if part of the confected and bogus row over language is cover and excuse for not supporting a Tory deal in October.

Ah yes, it was me and you who thought a Deal was his real plan, wasn't it? You're on your own now, I'm afraid. I'm just seeing too much evidence to the contrary. If he were to win a thumping majority in a Brexit general election, would he then get serious about a Deal? Maybe, but I'm doubting even that.

It's a bit like when Trump won -

"Surely he's not really so unhinged?"
"Surely it's mainly an act?"
"Surely he will cut a lot of the crap when he's in office?"

But pretty soon the awful truth dawned. WYSIWYG.

Without wishing to invoke Godwin's Law, similar was said about a certain Austrian Corporal.

RochdalePioneers said:

AndyJS said:

bigjohnowls said:

Andy_JS said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I've joined the Liberal Democrats

Who were you supporting before?

Blair I think

Okay, thanks. I find it difficult to remember the party affiliations of everyone on PB.

I voted for Corbyn and Brexit...

Genuine question - what changed in the meantime to take you to LD? Corbyn (or your opinion of him) or your opinion on Brexit or both? Or other things?

Anabobazina said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:

Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live

Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.

I have never met Jess, but I have met Gauke, and seen him in action at at Q&A of experts during his time at HM Treasury. He remains the most impressive minister I have seen with an industry audience – completely on top of his brief, warm and willing. He is a seriously able man.

I’ve met both and each in their own way are very impressive.

RobD said:

.

OllyT said:

RobD said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucy Powell votes against Tory recess :!
Bryant, Hillier and Harman do too.
Strange way to boost the Manc economy and get the speaker job.

Missing a few drunken Tory MPs for a couple of days is going to make sod all difference to the Manchester economy. No Deal Brexit on the other hand...

Lucy Powell last night:

"As the Member of Parliament for Manchester Central, I want the Conservative conference to go ahead—not because I want to welcome the Conservatives to our city, but because livelihoods depend on it, and I think that it is an important part of our democracy. "

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

So you wont object it to be sitting during the Labour or LD conference next year, and for the government to slip in contentious bills while their MPs are away?

If the Government had not unlawfully prorogued Parliament it wouldn't have happened. They compounded that with a disgraceful performance by Bozo and Cox yesterday. Entire blame lies with the Government's actions and behaviour.

As this Government has yet to win a vote on anything it will make sod all difference anyway.

Nobody is pretending this sets any sort of precedent

So the government does a wrong thing the best course of action is to do another wrong thing?

Yes, it won't make any difference this time around, especially with what is on the order paper, but I am thinking ahead to the next conference season. What better way for a government to get its contentious business through than by tabling it when hundreds of opposition MPs are away?

A Government unlawfully prorogues Parliament, on the first day back it shows no contrition, insults parliament and on day 2 asks Parliament for a recess for its party conference. They are having a laugh and no it won't set a precedent. I have no sympathy whatsoever for this government given the way it is behaving.

CaptainBuzzkill said:

OllyT said:

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

And another historic convention destroyed by remainer MPs.

Fair game in the future for a government to schedule parliament to sit whilst the opposition are having their conference.

Very sad days regardless of your political allegiance.

The petty-minded mean spirit of Remainers knows no bounds, it would seem.

surbiton19 said:

felix said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucy Powell votes against Tory recess :!
Bryant, Hillier and Harman do too.
Strange way to boost the Manc economy and get the speaker job.

Missing a few drunken Tory MPs for a couple of days is going to make sod all difference to the Manchester economy. No Deal Brexit on the other hand...

Lucy Powell last night:

"As the Member of Parliament for Manchester Central, I want the Conservative conference to go ahead—not because I want to welcome the Conservatives to our city, but because livelihoods depend on it, and I think that it is an important part of our democracy. "

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

And the precedent is now set for future years - Parliament can sit through all party conferences except the Tory one. It'll look really clever if that was to happen.

Actually, Parliament was open during both the Lib Dem and Labour conferences. Did you not hear Lady Hale say, "Parliament is not prorogued".

And it is undeniable that Johnson deprived Parliament of a vote on a conference recess prior to today...

And quite possible that the opposition would have voted it down, even at the expense of their own conferences.

(Mind you, I still think today's vote, while understandable, slightly petty.)

justin124 said:

felix said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

CaptainBuzzkill said:

Perhaps the EU is their single greatest allegiance in life, who knows.

We know perfectly well - that is utter, off-the-wall, green-ink-bonkers nonsense.

Why? There was no reason for them to vote against on this occasion except utter pettiness. You sadi more or less the same thing yesterday.

It is fitting revenge for Johnson's Prorogation and making up for lost time. Hopefully the Opposition will again take control of the Order Paper so as to make it difficult for Johnson to appear in Manchester on Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1177233856660946945?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1177233856660946945&ref_url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live

Party conferences should all be moved to the already ridiculously long holiday periods.

MPs should work for their constituents when they are paid to do so and their parties in their free time.

It would still have been wiser and more magnanimous to have allowed a recess for the tory conference this time around.

MarqueeMark said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1177166970636132352?s=20

LibDems take Yardley by 10%. Bye bye Jess.....

Still, with the pay-off for losing your seat you can at least afford a printer.

I don't believe that. While it was strongly LD in the past, it was also 60% leave

YBarddCwsc said:

Pulpstar said:

It's one of my sincerest hopes that the Lib Dems replace the Labour party as the main left of centre party.

@RochdalePioneers Good job

Why ?

There is absolutely no evidence that the LibDems are at all interested in diminishing poverty, for example.

The LibDems are a party for Toffs with a Conscience.

It is a little better than the party of Toffs without a Conscience, but that is about all.

Rubbish. The increase in the personal allowance to take the working poor out of tax was an LD policy, as was the Pupil Premium. Both are effective actions to tackle poverty, and not just pie in the sky, they were actually implemented.

justin124 said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Pulpstar said:

It's one of my sincerest hopes that the Lib Dems replace the Labour party as the main left of centre party.

@RochdalePioneers Good job

Why ?

There is absolutely no evidence that the LibDems are at all interested in diminishing poverty, for example.

The LibDems are a party for Toffs with a Conscience.

It is a little better than the party of Toffs without a Conscience, but that is about all.

Indeed the LibDems have shown themselves to be centre rright post 2010.

That's the sound of SLFers falling over.

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1177166970636132352?s=20

Wales: Labour goes from 28 to 15 seats. Tories up to 17.

This in firebrand socialist Welsh Wales.

https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1177244640690544641

noneoftheabove said:

Party conferences should all be moved to the already ridiculously long holiday periods.

MPs should work for their constituents when they are paid to do so and their parties in their free time.

It would still have been wiser and more magnanimous to have allowed a recess for the tory conference this time around.

They should embrace the new technology - and have Boris's speech given to conference by a (now surprisingly life-like) hologram.

justin124 said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1177166970636132352?s=20

LibDems take Yardley by 10%. Bye bye Jess.....

Still, with the pay-off for losing your seat you can at least afford a printer.

I don't believe that. While it was strongly LD in the past, it was also 60% leave

Until Estelle Morris regained the seat for Labour in 1992 , it had been a Labour/Tory marginal. The Tories were back in second place in 2017.

Pretty sure Jess has a rock solid personal vote by now. She is one of Brummage's own.

Foxy said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

MarqueeMark said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1177166970636132352?s=20

LibDems take Yardley by 10%. Bye bye Jess.....

Still, with the pay-off for losing your seat you can at least afford a printer.

I don't believe that. While it was strongly LD in the past, it was also 60% leave

Jess is safe there.

My model has it as one of 5 LD gains from LAB, although it is very close and my gut says she'll hold on.

I remember somebody once said, when they go low, we go high...seems everybody has forgotten that on both sides of the pond.

justin124 said:

Foxy said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Pulpstar said:

It's one of my sincerest hopes that the Lib Dems replace the Labour party as the main left of centre party.

@RochdalePioneers Good job

Why ?

There is absolutely no evidence that the LibDems are at all interested in diminishing poverty, for example.

The LibDems are a party for Toffs with a Conscience.

It is a little better than the party of Toffs without a Conscience, but that is about all.

Rubbish. The increase in the personal allowance to take the working poor out of tax was an LD policy, as was the Pupil Premium. Both are effective actions to tackle policy, and not just pie in the sky, they were actually implemented.

To be reducing Income Tax at at a time of supposedly unavoildable austerity was a right wing policy - albeit that a reduction in the standard rate would have been even more so.

Even if that is so, so what? The LibDems didn't have a majority. No doubt the government would have done different things if it had been a purely LibDem affair, but you really can't blame them for having to compromise - that's kinda the idea of coalitions, right? It doesn't mean that they weren't a centre-left party.

algarkirk said:

Slackbladder said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1177231618110607362
https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1177233310474547200

Those antifa's eh....

I think the left of the Labour party as it is now probably think she is.

So, MPs' salaries now have to go up to include danger money. Isn't Brexshit truly wonderful...?

Who in their right mind aged 40-55 would risk mad people attacking them at work if they have the ability to get an interesting and safer job elsewhere and still be paid £75-80 k/y?

Admittedly it's very good pay for someone aged 25 with a degree and almost no life experience. So they might regard it as OK.

isam said:

AlastairMeeks said:

RobD said:

justin124 said:

RobD said:

justin124 said:

felix said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

CaptainBuzzkill said:

Perhaps the EU is their single greatest allegiance in life, who knows.

We know perfectly well - that is utter, off-the-wall, green-ink-bonkers nonsense.

Why? There was no reason for them to vote against on this occasion except utter pettiness. You sadi more or less the same thing yesterday.

It is fitting revenge for Johnson's Prorogation and making up for lost time. Hopefully the Opposition will again take control of the Order Paper so as to make it difficult for Johnson to appear in Manchester on Wednesday.

As if Parliament is going to spring into action and finally do something after three years of dithering. It's just political point scoring at this point.

But Johnson has brought it on himself and deserves no better.

How very petty.

Do you think that the Conservatives have earned any goodwill gestures from their opponents?

Don’t you think that preventing the Tories having their conference might... ‘rally the troops’ (if such wartime analogies are permitted in these febrile times)

The Tories might as well just head off leaving a couple of talkers who know their way round parliament well (Bill Cash, Mogg and a couple of others can probably manage it) as they're bound to lose any "surprise" motions anyway.

justin124 said:

It may be a reason not to have entered the coalition. A Confidence & Supply arrangement might actually have given them more leverage - despite being unable to push their own policy proposals.

Yes, but fortunately as a responsible centre-left party they rightly concluded that it was in the interests of the country, and in particular of their voters and constituents, to help form a stable government which could rescue the economy from the crisis which Labour had left behind (Labour were overspending by a staggering 33%, if you remember).

It worked extremely well - quite remarkably, the deficit was brought under control without the mass unemployment which might have been expected. That was exactly looking after the interests of the least well-off, which is where this debate started.

ozymandias said:

AlastairMeeks said:

felix said:

AlastairMeeks said:

RobD said:

justin124 said:

RobD said:

justin124 said:

felix said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

CaptainBuzzkill said:

Perhaps the EU is their single greatest allegiance in life, who knows.

We know perfectly well - that is utter, off-the-wall, green-ink-bonkers nonsense.

Why? There was no reason for them to vote against on this occasion except utter pettiness. You sadi more or less the same thing yesterday.

It is fitting revenge for Johnson's Prorogation and making up for lost time. Hopefully the Opposition will again take control of the Order Paper so as to make it difficult for Johnson to appear in Manchester on Wednesday.

As if Parliament is going to spring into action and finally do something after three years of dithering. It's just political point scoring at this point.

But Johnson has brought it on himself and deserves no better.

How very petty.

Do you think that the Conservatives have earned any goodwill gestures from their opponents?

Spectacularly missing the point and deliberately at that. Chill out.

Play bitch games and win bitch prizes.

And so the spiral spins ever downwards.

The loss of the Conservative party conference is not a matter of national importance.

Nigelb said:

surbiton19 said:

felix said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

OllyT said:

Pulpstar said:

Lucy Powell votes against Tory recess :!
Bryant, Hillier and Harman do too.
Strange way to boost the Manc economy and get the speaker job.

Missing a few drunken Tory MPs for a couple of days is going to make sod all difference to the Manchester economy. No Deal Brexit on the other hand...

Lucy Powell last night:

"As the Member of Parliament for Manchester Central, I want the Conservative conference to go ahead—not because I want to welcome the Conservatives to our city, but because livelihoods depend on it, and I think that it is an important part of our
democracy. "

The Tory Conference hasn't been cancelled as far as I am aware. It will go ahead minus about 100 MPs on any particular day. Hardly the end of the world as we know it.

And the precedent is now set for future years - Parliament can sit through all party conferences except the Tory one. It'll look really clever if that was to happen.

Actually, Parliament was open during both the Lib Dem and Labour conferences. Did you not hear Lady Hale say, "Parliament is not prorogued".

And it is undeniable that Johnson deprived Parliament of a vote on a conference recess prior to today...

And quite possible that the opposition would have voted it down, even at the expense of their own conferences.

(Mind you, I still think today's vote, while understandable, slightly petty.)

Today's vote was unnecessarily petty. I am surprised all opposition parties agreed to it.
Why did the 21 expelled Tories sat on their hands ? This would have been a good gesture to their party membership.