politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » These perceptions of Johnson could be critical in an election
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » These perceptions of Johnson could be critical in an election campaign
The above detailed data from today’s YouGov/Times poll should be of concern to the PM’s advisors as they wrench up the election rhetoric.
Comments
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First.0
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Second like the Lib-Dems at the general election. Possibly.0
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The BXP figures look encouraging for BoJo.0
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Boris seen as decisive and strong will be good news for No 10, especially in comparison to his predecessor0
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With another week or two of Parliamentary shambles the positive rating for decisiveness might trump every other measure.0
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FPT
viewcode said:
» show previous quotes
I was going to mock this post. Then I remembered I spent a hour online upset yesterday that Waterstones sell three of Gibson's Sprawl novels in editions with the same cover design, height and width, but the fourth has the same cover design, height BUT A DIFFERENT WIDTH, and so will not line up on the shelves...
Bastards.
Could you not trim it if too wide or add a false panel if narrower. Bit of crafting to go with your reading.1 -
FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.1 -
A pity, then, that his ratings on both of those seem to be falling rapidly...HYUFD said:Boris seen as decisive and strong will be good news for No 10, especially in comparison to his predecessor
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Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and Wales and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too with the LDs up to 14% north of the border as well ahead of Scottish Labour on just 13%0
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I hope the Tories get their conference recess.
They badly need some time out to talk to themselves and take stock.
And if it's as successful as the Labour conference, another 4 points on the Lib Dem polling total would be very welcome.0 -
I'm not sure Malc.malcolmg said:
GIN, you are off your rocker, bottom of the pile for those roastersGIN1138 said:Second like the Lib-Dems at the general election. Possibly.
I think Labour is in big, big trouble and they know it which explains for example Sheermans extraordinary outburst yesterday and why Jezza is so desperate not to have an election.
Con
Lib-Dem
Lab
Could be the finishing order in terms of vote shares though, probably not seats...0 -
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.0 -
Very different MPs with very different policies but either would get my vote.Richard_Nabavi said:FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.0 -
Overall the new Yougov has the Tories on 33%, the LDs and Labour tied on 22% each and the Brexit Party on 14%0
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Watch the glissando in the "competence" and "strong" ratings as it dawns on the public that Brexit isn't going to happen on 31 October.0
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Will really be a pin the donkey election for sureGIN1138 said:
I'm not sure Malc.malcolmg said:
GIN, you are off your rocker, bottom of the pile for those roastersGIN1138 said:Second like the Lib-Dems at the general election. Possibly.
I think Labour is in big, big trouble and they know it which explains for example Sheermans extraordinary outburst yesterday and why Jezza is so desperate not to have an election.
Con
Lib-Dem
Lab
Could be the finishing order in terms of vote shares though, probably not seats...0 -
Jess' speech is good ... but on the use of inflammatory language, can you remind me who said she wanted to "knife Corbyn in the front" ?Richard_Nabavi said:FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.1 -
I think that depends on if he is able to make the case that it is Parliament who are blocking things.AlastairMeeks said:Watch the glissando in the "competence" and "strong" ratings as it dawns on the public that Brexit isn't going to happen on 31 October.
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If it begins to look obvious that the Lib Dems will finish above Labour in vote share, then I think that will make it easier for moderate Conservatives to also vote Lib Dem, as they will not have to fear Corbyn.GIN1138 said:
I'm not sure Malc.malcolmg said:
GIN, you are off your rocker, bottom of the pile for those roastersGIN1138 said:Second like the Lib-Dems at the general election. Possibly.
I think Labour is in big, big trouble and they know it which explains for example Sheermans extraordinary outburst yesterday and why Jezza is so desperate not to have an election.
Con
Lib-Dem
Lab
Could be the finishing order in terms of vote shares though, probably not seats...
I would suggest this would make it much more likely that the Lib Dems will finish first in vote share, rather than second.0 -
The difference between the figures for Leave, and for Conservative and Brexit, are interesting. It suggests that Labour Leavers have a very poor opinion of Johnson. He won't be winning them over.0
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Virtually everyone - here and especially in parliament, has taken sides. There is not a hint of compromise anywhere. That is certainly a betrayal both of the majority in the referendum but also the minority. 52/48 requires a compromise version of Brexit - nothing more and nothing less. For those of us in the middle, in my case preferring remain but accepting the result it's all rather awful.YBarddCwsc said:
Jess' speech is good ... but on the use of inflammatory language, can you remind me who said she wanted to "knife Corbyn in the front" ?Richard_Nabavi said:FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.1 -
I think that's optimistic for the Lib-Dems especially as Con will squeeze BXP down to single digits.OblitusSumMe said:
If it begins to look obvious that the Lib Dems will finish above Labour in vote share, then I think that will make it easier for moderate Conservatives to also vote Lib Dem, as they will not have to fear Corbyn.GIN1138 said:
I'm not sure Malc.malcolmg said:
GIN, you are off your rocker, bottom of the pile for those roastersGIN1138 said:Second like the Lib-Dems at the general election. Possibly.
I think Labour is in big, big trouble and they know it which explains for example Sheermans extraordinary outburst yesterday and why Jezza is so desperate not to have an election.
Con
Lib-Dem
Lab
Could be the finishing order in terms of vote shares though, probably not seats...
I would suggest this would make it much more likely that the Lib Dems will finish first in vote share, rather than second.0 -
Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Later that afternoon she receives a DEATH THREAT against a 5 YEAR OLD CHILD. And still there are people finding a way to rationalise and argue that such behaviour is not the fault of the impotent inadequate idiotic man (because it almost certainly was) who did this. As isam said on the last thread on the subject of people objecting to this: "bollocks"
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.6 -
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%0 -
Wishful thinking. Don't underestimate the attraction of Johnson in the privacy of the polling booth to those who fear Corbyn by the back door.OblitusSumMe said:
If it begins to look obvious that the Lib Dems will finish above Labour in vote share, then I think that will make it easier for moderate Conservatives to also vote Lib Dem, as they will not have to fear Corbyn.GIN1138 said:
I'm not sure Malc.malcolmg said:
GIN, you are off your rocker, bottom of the pile for those roastersGIN1138 said:Second like the Lib-Dems at the general election. Possibly.
I think Labour is in big, big trouble and they know it which explains for example Sheermans extraordinary outburst yesterday and why Jezza is so desperate not to have an election.
Con
Lib-Dem
Lab
Could be the finishing order in terms of vote shares though, probably not seats...
I would suggest this would make it much more likely that the Lib Dems will finish first in vote share, rather than second.0 -
Sorry, but you can't use the "betrayal" word.....felix said:
Virtually everyone - here and especially in parliament, has taken sides. There is not a hint of compromise anywhere. That is certainly a betrayal both of the majority in the referendum but also the minority. 52/48 requires a compromise version of Brexit - nothing more and nothing less. For those of us in the middle, in my case preferring remain but accepting the result it's all rather awful.YBarddCwsc said:
Jess' speech is good ... but on the use of inflammatory language, can you remind me who said she wanted to "knife Corbyn in the front" ?Richard_Nabavi said:FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.1 -
I think the fear of a Corbyn led Lib Dem Labour coalition led by Corbyn will be enough to ensure most remain Tories back Boris.OblitusSumMe said:
If it begins to look obvious that the Lib Dems will finish above Labour in vote share, then I think that will make it easier for moderate Conservatives to also vote Lib Dem, as they will not have to fear Corbyn.GIN1138 said:
I'm not sure Malc.malcolmg said:
GIN, you are off your rocker, bottom of the pile for those roastersGIN1138 said:Second like the Lib-Dems at the general election. Possibly.
I think Labour is in big, big trouble and they know it which explains for example Sheermans extraordinary outburst yesterday and why Jezza is so desperate not to have an election.
Con
Lib-Dem
Lab
Could be the finishing order in terms of vote shares though, probably not seats...
I would suggest this would make it much more likely that the Lib Dems will finish first in vote share, rather than second.0 -
"A big boy made me do it then he ran away"RobD said:
I think that depends on if he is able to make the case that it is Parliament who are blocking things.AlastairMeeks said:Watch the glissando in the "competence" and "strong" ratings as it dawns on the public that Brexit isn't going to happen on 31 October.
Nah......
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Trump has some explaining to do."In the course of my official duties, I have received information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election."
https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf0 -
I don't like Phillips as much as many seem to do, I find her a bit of a narcissist, but Gauke IMO is an egg of the very highest grade of goodness.Richard_Nabavi said:FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.
He is my favourite Tory politician bar none.1 -
Yesterday will help him make that case.....RobD said:
I think that depends on if he is able to make the case that it is Parliament who are blocking things.AlastairMeeks said:Watch the glissando in the "competence" and "strong" ratings as it dawns on the public that Brexit isn't going to happen on 31 October.
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Good summary of how we've got to where we are on the Backstop/Belfast agreement, and what needs to change (among all parties) for progress:
http://2ihmoy1d3v7630ar9h2rsglp-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190926-Brexit-and-the-Belfast-Good-Friday-Agreement-Final-report.pdf
The current impasse over Brexit stems from divergent views in the UK and the EU about the role and purpose of the backstop, and the meaning of the commitment to prevent a return to a hard border in Ireland after the UK leaves the EU. At the root of this dispute is a disagreement over the obligations imposed on the UK (and Ireland) under the terms of the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement of 1998.0 -
The government reply to Gauke was... strange ? humbug ? an acknowledgment that by then they’ll be generally despised ? ... or just taking the piss ?Richard_Nabavi said:FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.
....the Tories will go into the next election committed to uniting the country....0 -
I have added a 'like' to your excellent post. I would prefer it if I could add multiple 'likes' for your post!RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Later that afternoon she receives a DEATH THREAT against a 5 YEAR OLD CHILD. And still there are people finding a way to rationalise and argue that such behaviour is not the fault of the impotent inadequate idiotic man (because it almost certainly was) who did this. As isam said on the last thread on the subject of people objecting to this: "bollocks"
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.0 -
The basic problem is that however bad Johnson's ratings are, Corbyn's are worse.1
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The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%0 -
Rachel Johnson...
‘I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against. I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said “Britain first”, of the far right tendency which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.’0 -
I do agree that the UK is like a pressure cooker at the moment and it's been building since 2016.RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Later that afternoon she receives a DEATH THREAT against a 5 YEAR OLD CHILD. And still there are people finding a way to rationalise and argue that such behaviour is not the fault of the impotent inadequate idiotic man (because it almost certainly was) who did this. As isam said on the last thread on the subject of people objecting to this: "bollocks"
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.
Traditionally in times of crisis the way we have tended to let off steam has been through general elections and resolution but that route is also being denied to voters also.
I don't think there will be violence (at least not widespread violence) much less war but we are clearly a very unhappy country and until there is resolution to Brexit, which can only happen with a new Commons after a general election, nothing will improve.1 -
If we'd Hard Brexited on 29th March, would this country be in a worse state now that it is? Not, at least, in a political sense. Lance the boil, Brexit, get on with getting back to normal. But this parliament seems set on stringing it out stringing it out stringing out all the while the tension is rising.RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Later that afternoon she receives a DEATH THREAT against a 5 YEAR OLD CHILD. And still there are people finding a way to rationalise and argue that such behaviour is not the fault of the impotent inadequate idiotic man (because it almost certainly was) who did this. As isam said on the last thread on the subject of people objecting to this: "bollocks"
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.0 -
Christmas lunch conversation is going to be interesting in the Johnson household!Nigelb said:Rachel Johnson...
‘I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against. I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said “Britain first”, of the far right tendency which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.’1 -
We are at war (culture right now, but violence is probably not far behind)RochdalePioneers said:David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.
This is why talk of armistice is not the answer. It might stop the shelling, but will fuel resentment for the next round.
Only total victory will suffice.
As noted upthread, the nuclear option of No Deal might persuade both sides that the damage of total war exceeds the gains, but it will mean destruction and death.
We can rebuild, but only if all of the ivory towers are flattened.0 -
I have never met Jess, but I have met Gauke, and seen him in action at at Q&A of experts during his time at HM Treasury. He remains the most impressive minister I have seen with an industry audience – completely on top of his brief, warm and willing. He is a seriously able man.Richard_Nabavi said:FPT, but actually more relevant to this thread:
Jess Phillips is really rather impressive. See the quote at 13:34:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live
Also David Gauke is proving to be a star. I met him briefly in 2010 when he was a junior in the Treasury, and I thought then he might go far. What a tragedy that the modern Conservative Party is no longer interested in sensible people like him.1 -
Parliament just voted against recess for Tory conference0
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Why do I get the sense that all of that is followed by the word "but"?Nigelb said:Rachel Johnson...
‘I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against. I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said “Britain first”, of the far right tendency which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.’0 -
BoZo maintains his 100 losing record.0
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But why is it to "lance the boil" we capitulate to the Hard Brexit side? Hard Brexit / No Deal Brexit will be it's own disaster AND it won't be "the end" of Brexit. Indeed, No Deal Brexit is just a continuation of these talks, just from a position already outside the EU but considerably more fucked. The status quo is Remain. We could do that and leavers could try to craft a leave that is actually possible, and then we have a referendum on that.KentRising said:
If we'd Hard Brexited on 29th March, would this country be in a worse state now that it is? Not, at least, in a political sense. Lance the boil, Brexit, get on with getting back to normal. But this parliament seems set on stringing it out stringing it out stringing out all the while the tension is rising.RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Later that afternoon she receives a DEATH THREAT against a 5 YEAR OLD CHILD. And still there are people finding a way to rationalise and argue that such behaviour is not the fault of the impotent inadequate idiotic man (because it almost certainly was) who did this. As isam said on the last thread on the subject of people objecting to this: "bollocks"
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.0 -
Yes, there is now a bigger swing from Labour to the Tories in London than the North if Yougov is correct since 2017 suggesting Kensington, Enfield Southgate, Croydon Central, Dagenham and Rainham, Eltham, even Ilford North and Brentford and Isleworth etc could all go blueAndy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%0 -
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Good news for Virgin West Coast!Scott_P said:0 -
This is the new normal. No matter what happens everything changes from now on.KentRising said:
If we'd Hard Brexited on 29th March, would this country be in a worse state now that it is? Not, at least, in a political sense. Lance the boil, Brexit, get on with getting back to normal. But this parliament seems set on stringing it out stringing it out stringing out all the while the tension is rising.RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Later that afternoon she receives a DEATH THREAT against a 5 YEAR OLD CHILD. And still there are people finding a way to rationalise and argue that such behaviour is not the fault of the impotent inadequate idiotic man (because it almost certainly was) who did this. As isam said on the last thread on the subject of people objecting to this: "bollocks"
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.0 -
Another prorogation then!Scott_P said:0 -
Blundini is now 0 for 7.0
-
Yup and no matter how appalling Boris is it is difficult to see that changing. Not indeed should it quite frankly. Even from Spain - where things are far from rosy right now des[ite what the self-obsessed British think - I am horrified at the idea of the UK being led by him and his ilk. Fortunately in my Lewisham East constituency a LD vote makes a lot of sense this time.SouthamObserver said:The basic problem is that however bad Johnson's ratings are, Corbyn's are worse.
0 -
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1177208499547324416AlastairMeeks said:Blundini is now 0 for 7.
0 -
Will it be a disaster? Is that a fact, or your opinion? The latter. And the argument starts again.148grss said:
But why is it to "lance the boil" we capitulate to the Hard Brexit side? Hard Brexit / No Deal Brexit will be it's own disaster AND it won't be "the end" of Brexit. Indeed, No Deal Brexit is just a continuation of these talks, just from a position already outside the EU but considerably more fucked. The status quo is Remain. We could do that and leavers could try to craft a leave that is actually possible, and then we have a referendum on that.KentRising said:
If we'd Hard Brexited on 29th March, would this country be in a worse state now that it is? Not, at least, in a political sense. Lance the boil, Brexit, get on with getting back to normal. But this parliament seems set on stringing it out stringing it out stringing out all the while the tension is rising.RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.
The status quo has gone. It went on the 23rd June 2016.
0 -
With all these defeats, it’s almost as if there should be another election.AlastairMeeks said:Blundini is now 0 for 7.
0 -
Some people are determined to analyse meaningless polling subsamples to an inch of their lives when they say things they like, then ignore entire polls like ComRes when they say things they don't like.Andy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%
Only from the PB Tories.
Only on PB.-1 -
Tim Loughton on Daily Politics said Tory MPs would just go up day by day rather than stay overnight in Manchester ready to go back and vote if required.Scott_P said:
The conference will go on though0 -
There are PB Tories not on PB?Anabobazina said:
Some people are determined to analyse meaningless polling subsamples to an inch of their lives when they say things they like, then ignore entire polls like ComRes when they say things they don't like.Andy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%
Only from the PB Tories.
Only on PB.1 -
JRM throwing intense shade in the Commons right now..
His business statement consists of reading out every statutory order title in full, in a monotone voice which says "you f*ckers dragged us all back here.. now you're gonna suffer for it"
0 -
I disagreeNigelb said:Rachel Johnson...
‘I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against. I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said “Britain first”, of the far right tendency which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.’
Honouring someone doesn’t meaning doing what they wanted.
In this case it means creating a unified country and working towards a more level-set political environment
That means either Brexit or Revoke. Either will be cathartic and then the healing can begin
It’s the “extend and pretend” folks who are dishonouring Jo Cox’s memory1 -
It's the majority opinion of business and 'experts' (so I guess you'd disregard them).KentRising said:
Will it be a disaster? Is that a fact, or your opinion? The latter. And the argument starts again.148grss said:
But why is it to "lance the boil" we capitulate to the Hard Brexit side? Hard Brexit / No Deal Brexit will be it's own disaster AND it won't be "the end" of Brexit. Indeed, No Deal Brexit is just a continuation of these talks, just from a position already outside the EU but considerably more fucked. The status quo is Remain. We could do that and leavers could try to craft a leave that is actually possible, and then we have a referendum on that.KentRising said:
If we'd Hard Brexited on 29th March, would this country be in a worse state now that it is? Not, at least, in a political sense. Lance the boil, Brexit, get on with getting back to normal. But this parliament seems set on stringing it out stringing it out stringing out all the while the tension is rising.RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.
The status quo has gone. It went on the 23rd June 2016.0 -
I mean, it is a fact we will need some deal with the EU. It is a fact, stated by the EU, that to get such a deal we would need to discuss Ireland, EU citizens rights and money to be paid into EU budget for prior commitments. It is a fact that leaving will change the nature of how goods, including food, come in and out of this country.KentRising said:
Will it be a disaster? Is that a fact, or your opinion? The latter. And the argument starts again.148grss said:
But why is it to "lance the boil" we capitulate to the Hard Brexit side? Hard Brexit / No Deal Brexit will be it's own disaster AND it won't be "the end" of Brexit. Indeed, No Deal Brexit is just a continuation of these talks, just from a position already outside the EU but considerably more fucked. The status quo is Remain. We could do that and leavers could try to craft a leave that is actually possible, and then we have a referendum on that.
The status quo has gone. It went on the 23rd June 2016.
It is my conclusion, based on the evidence of this governments planning documents and the discussions on these issues by specialists (including my housemate who works at a medical site using radioactive material for cancer treatment) that in the case of No Deal, we are fucked.0 -
Here we go again.logical_song said:
It's the majority opinion of business and 'experts' (so I guess you'd disregard them).KentRising said:
Will it be a disaster? Is that a fact, or your opinion? The latter. And the argument starts again.148grss said:
But why is it to "lance the boil" we capitulate to the Hard Brexit side? Hard Brexit / No Deal Brexit will be it's own disaster AND it won't be "the end" of Brexit. Indeed, No Deal Brexit is just a continuation of these talks, just from a position already outside the EU but considerably more fucked. The status quo is Remain. We could do that and leavers could try to craft a leave that is actually possible, and then we have a referendum on that.KentRising said:
If we'd Hard Brexited on 29th March, would this country be in a worse state now that it is? Not, at least, in a political sense. Lance the boil, Brexit, get on with getting back to normal. But this parliament seems set on stringing it out stringing it out stringing out all the while the tension is rising.RochdalePioneers said:Only skimmed the other thread as busy. But a crystal clear rubicon has been crossed IMO.
Johnson was judged to have mislead the Queen and unlawfully given advice which lead to the improper proroguing of parliament. Yes, he had legal opinion that he was ok to do so. But the superior court judged it the other way.
Jo Swinson made a short, calm and prescient point. Even her 5 year old son knows to say sorry when he's done wrong. Why doesn't the PM know to do this?
Something is very very broken in this country. The PM is openly stoking this fire so that more impotent angry cretins feel emboldened and indeed entitled to threaten a 5 year old child. That said cretins have already murdered one MP and would have murdered another had the police not stopped them doesn't seem to phase isam or Cleverly or any of these people happy to have the lives of women and children directly threatend because what they want hasn't happened.
David Starkey yesterday on LBC pointed out that in the past "People" vs "Parliament" led to war. We feel on the edge of that right now, where infants are apparently fair game. These "men" - and I rightly put it in quote marks because men do not threaten children and murder women because of politics - should be ashamed. But aren't, and won't be, because of political tactics by the Prime Minister.
I have a low opinion of Corbyn. But my resentment of Corbyn is nothing compared to my resentment of Johnson. And Cummings. And Banks. And Farage. And Dacre. How we restore basic human decency I do not know. Because isam and friends refuse to recognise that they are indecent.
The status quo has gone. It went on the 23rd June 2016.0 -
A new government will suffice in due course.RobD said:
With all these defeats, it’s almost as if there should be another election.AlastairMeeks said:Blundini is now 0 for 7.
0 -
You are the only person I have come across who can type as he dreams. When you wake up you will realise it was all a wonderful fantasy, then it's back to reality!HYUFD said:
Yes, there is now a bigger swing from Labour to the Tories in London than the North if Yougov is correct since 2017 suggesting Kensington, Enfield Southgate, Croydon Central, Dagenham and Rainham, Eltham, even Ilford North and Brentford and Isleworth etc could all go blueAndy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%0 -
Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.1 -
Some Labour supporters are determined to ignore the polling of doom held up in front of their faces.Anabobazina said:
Some people are determined to analyse meaningless polling subsamples to an inch of their lives when they say things they like, then ignore entire polls like ComRes when they say things they don't like.Andy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%
Only from the PB Tories.
Only on PB.
0 -
It's almost as if in politics you need political capital to get things done, and if you squander than on being generally awful you get punished. Who knew?TGOHF2 said:Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.1 -
Again, ignore the polling if you wish. But the evidence suggests it is you who is asleep.....Mexicanpete said:
You are the only person I have come across who can type as he dreams. When you wake up you will realise it was all a wonderful fantasy, then it's back to reality!HYUFD said:
Yes, there is now a bigger swing from Labour to the Tories in London than the North if Yougov is correct since 2017 suggesting Kensington, Enfield Southgate, Croydon Central, Dagenham and Rainham, Eltham, even Ilford North and Brentford and Isleworth etc could all go blueAndy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%0 -
There is no reason the conference cannot go ahead. It is not as if the entire parliamentary party would ever have been there.TGOHF2 said:Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.0 -
Even Comres has a big swing from Labour to LD so does not really contradict Yougov, just the Yougov swing from Labour to the LDs is bigger and Yougov has the Brexit Party a bit lower than Comres and the Tories higherAnabobazina said:
Some people are determined to analyse meaningless polling subsamples to an inch of their lives when they say things they like, then ignore entire polls like ComRes when they say things they don't like.Andy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%
Only from the PB Tories.
Only on PB.0 -
Bercow confirmed a few minutes ago that the earliest an election can be held is 5th November.0
-
I mean, if we live in a world where we have to debate the nature of reality everytime we discuss something, we're already fucked, No Deal or Remain.KentRising said:
Here we go again.logical_song said:
It's the majority opinion of business and 'experts' (so I guess you'd disregard them).KentRising said:
Will it be a disaster? Is that a fact, or your opinion? The latter. And the argument starts again.148grss said:
But why is it to "lance the boil" we capitulate to the Hard Brexit side? Hard Brexit / No Deal Brexit will be it's own disaster AND it won't be "the end" of Brexit. Indeed, No Deal Brexit is just a continuation of these talks, just from a position already outside the EU but considerably more fucked. The status quo is Remain. We could do that and leavers could try to craft a leave that is actually possible, and then we have a referendum on that.
The status quo has gone. It went on the 23rd June 2016.0 -
Its the Vox Pops from angry "men" insisting they aren't bothered if they run out of the insulin they need to live providing that we have Brexit. Monty Python used to satirise Vox Pops. This isn't satire - they are serious. The man who said "I'm happy to eat grass". Serious.Scott_P said:We can rebuild, but only if all of the ivory towers are flattened.
The "men" suppoting a similar "man" threatening the life of a 5 year old child because him Mum said that she didn't want them to eat grass or die because of the lack of insulin, saying that its the fault of the 5 year old's mum. That the best way to honour a woman murdered by a Brexit chanting "man" is to deliver Brexit.
So no, the way to deal with this issue is not to pander to these "men". We don't negotiate with terrorists. Or despots. Or dictators. We don't let off those threatening murder of children because if we don't they might do something serious.
This is not politics any more. Its basic human decency and the rule of law. That Johnson is so desperate to trash the concept of rule of law is specifically so that he can portray "the law" as against the people. Are Brexiteers really not alarmed where this one leads to? If the rule of law is no longer absolute and can be broken because you dislike it, then you are fine being burgled and assaulted and defrauded by others who dislike other aspects of law. At which point it truly is anarchy.
3 -
Perhaps the Tories should have considered this before closing down Parliament unilaterally for their own ends.TGOHF2 said:Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.0 -
the absolute state of this.TGOHF2 said:Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.
won't backfire.0 -
Fixed.MarqueeMark said:
Some Tory supporters are determined to ignore the polling of doom held up in front of their faces.Anabobazina said:
Some people are determined to analyse meaningless polling subsamples to an inch of their lives when they say things they like, then ignore entire polls like ComRes when they say things they don't like.Andy_JS said:
The Tories within 1% of Labour in London? That's surprising.HYUFD said:
Yougov today has the Labour vote collapsing in London from 54% in 2017 to just 29% now with the LD vote surging from just 8% in 2017 to 28% now.MarqueeMark said:
What was the finishing Con/Lab margin in the Midlands in the 2017 GE?HYUFD said:Tories have a 10% lead in the Midlands and a 14% lead in the South and are just 1% behind Labour in London and the North on this poll too and it also has the SNP on 35% and the Tories on 22% in Scotland too
EDIT and that Labour number suggests they are shedding votes in London to the LibDems.
The Tory vote is down but only fractionally from 33% to 28%
Only from the PB Tories.
Only on PB.
0 -
...but not until Johnson has extended, or no dealt (?) illegally.AlastairMeeks said:
A new government will suffice in due course.RobD said:
With all these defeats, it’s almost as if there should be another election.AlastairMeeks said:Blundini is now 0 for 7.
0 -
-
-
TGOHF2 said:
Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.
Yes very petty especially considering the conference will still go ahead anyway.
It's just denying hotels and bars in Manchester extra revenue from reduced hospitality...0 -
The risk is unexpected votes.DecrepitJohnL said:
There is no reason the conference cannot go ahead. It is not as if the entire parliamentary party would ever have been there.TGOHF2 said:Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.0 -
Johnson losing it? (OK, I know some people think he never had it)
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1177210799770820609?s=200 -
You don't get to say what does or does not honour or dishonour Jo Cox's memory.Charles said:
I disagreeNigelb said:Rachel Johnson...
‘I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against. I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said “Britain first”, of the far right tendency which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.’
Honouring someone doesn’t meaning doing what they wanted.
In this case it means creating a unified country and working towards a more level-set political environment
That means either Brexit or Revoke. Either will be cathartic and then the healing can begin
It’s the “extend and pretend” folks who are dishonouring Jo Cox’s memory2 -
The Gov't is going to lose any 'unexpected votes' anyway. They might as well all head off to the conference & keep a few "talkers" in place to string things out where neccesary.RobD said:
The risk is unexpected votes.DecrepitJohnL said:
There is no reason the conference cannot go ahead. It is not as if the entire parliamentary party would ever have been there.TGOHF2 said:Seems a petty decision which will deprive the Manchester hospitality industry of a few quid.
Also opens the door for revenge next year.
Poor fare again from MPs.0 -
Just stating the facts.Anabobazina said:0 -
Good thing those ivory towers never gave us anything useful like vaccines, food security, clean water and the internet.RochdalePioneers said:
Its the Vox Pops from angry "men" insisting they aren't bothered if they run out of the insulin they need to live providing that we have Brexit. Monty Python used to satirise Vox Pops. This isn't satire - they are serious. The man who said "I'm happy to eat grass". Serious.Scott_P said:We can rebuild, but only if all of the ivory towers are flattened.
The "men" suppoting a similar "man" threatening the life of a 5 year old child because him Mum said that she didn't want them to eat grass or die because of the lack of insulin, saying that its the fault of the 5 year old's mum. That the best way to honour a woman murdered by a Brexit chanting "man" is to deliver Brexit.
So no, the way to deal with this issue is not to pander to these "men". We don't negotiate with terrorists. Or despots. Or dictators. We don't let off those threatening murder of children because if we don't they might do something serious.
This is not politics any more. Its basic human decency and the rule of law. That Johnson is so desperate to trash the concept of rule of law is specifically so that he can portray "the law" as against the people. Are Brexiteers really not alarmed where this one leads to? If the rule of law is no longer absolute and can be broken because you dislike it, then you are fine being burgled and assaulted and defrauded by others who dislike other aspects of law. At which point it truly is anarchy.
I don't consider myself an elitist in that I don't trust the elite class. I don't trust the system we live under, nor those who built it to their benefit. But I can accept when evidence is presented to me that their is a shared reality that exists and we can discern. It is hared to do with philosophy, or ideology, or politics, but with material things we can do it really well. When I am ill I go to a doctor. If the doctor says something I don't like I don't turn to a witch doctor who tells me all is dandy.0 -
The amendment that would be required could amend that provision too. Not saying it’s likely to happen, but it is not an impossibility.MikeSmithson said:0 -
You're some bloke on t'intentet though, not the sister of the pm who is whipping up the far right tendency, according to her.Charles said:
I disagreeNigelb said:Rachel Johnson...
‘I do think it was particularly tasteless for those grieving a mother, MP and friend to say the best way to honour her memory is to deliver the thing she and her family campaigned against. I think it was a very tasteless way of referring to the memory of a murdered MP, murdered by someone who said “Britain first”, of the far right tendency which you could argue is being whipped up by this sort of language.’
Honouring someone doesn’t meaning doing what they wanted.
In this case it means creating a unified country and working towards a more level-set political environment
That means either Brexit or Revoke. Either will be cathartic and then the healing can begin
It’s the “extend and pretend” folks who are dishonouring Jo Cox’s memory0 -
The populist narrative - "I want to Brexit but Remainer Quislings will not let me. Back me my People!" - might be tacky and reckless but it is powerful.RobD said:I think that depends on if he is able to make the case that it is Parliament who are blocking things.
It tickles the ivories of millions who are only too prepared to have their ivories tickled. We even see it on here and this is a relatively enlightened and thoughtful place. Well it is. Relatively.
If Johnson gets his election soon after 31 Oct under an extension agreed either by him but clearly under duress, or by someone else, and if the anti-Tory and anti-Leave vote remains so badly split, I find it hard to envisage anything but a Conservative working majority, possibly quite a large one.
The tactical LAB/LD voting would need to be on a massive scale, and would need to operate seat by seat incredibly effectively, in order to prevent this. It's a big ask.0
