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To prevent confusion, there should just be one generic Lord Baron Kerr of Three-Syllables.CaptainBuzzkill said:not_on_fire said:
The Lord Kerr on the Supreme Court is a different Lord Kerr from the one who wrote Article 50.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerr,_Baron_Kerr_of_Kinlochard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kerr,_Baron_Kerr_of_Tonaghmore
Please withdraw the nonsense you have written above.
Ah, it was a different Lord Baron who has done his bit to carry on the good work of the other Lord Baron who tried to make it impossible to leave the EU.
By my reckoning they both should have been called Wayne.1 -
I, for one, am fully willing to believe that Boris Johnson's primary motivation regarding his blonde lady friend was simply for her to show him how to handle his dongle.0
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This is the House of Lords reform we need: unambiguous names for aristocrats.TheScreamingEagles said:Fucking hell Byronic is thick as mince
The Lord Kerr on the Supreme Court is this one
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Kerr,_Baron_Kerr_of_Tonaghmore
This is the Lord Kerr who wrote article 50
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerr,_Baron_Kerr_of_Kinlochard0 -
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.0 -
By the measure of not having committed perjury, Thomas isn't, IMO.Pulpstar said:
Clarence Thomas and Ruth Bader Ginsburg are both world class judges by any measure....TGOHF2 said:
Who decided they were world class ? Is there a judge olympics ?rottenborough said:0 -
Politicians should be judged, in part, on how well they deliver what they promise to deliver. I rather think that the electorate will take a judgement on how well Johnson has been able to deliver on his promises and find him wanting.CaptainBuzzkill said:
None of your post relates to where we are now.OblitusSumMe said:
Compare to Johnson's pledges in his campaign for the leadership of the Conservative Party.CaptainBuzzkill said:Government resigns pre-31/10.
Corbyn made PM purely for long enough to sign Labour's death warrant by submitting the extension request.
GE follows.
All to Cummings timetable.
Deliver Brexit by 31/10 - Article 50 extended - FAILED.
Unite the Conservative Party (and the country) - Two former Chancellors with the whip withdrawn and 21 MPs in total kicked out - FAILED.
Defeat Jeremy Corbyn and keep him out of Number 10 - Resign to make way for Corbyn to enter Number 10 - FAILED.
A complete DUD, making Johnson a serial loser as well as a serial liar.
Would Conservative MPs have backed Johnson if that had been the plan presented to them in June? I think not.
And we all know that if Corbyn ends up being the one requesting the A50 extension prior to the GE Labour will be annihilated at the ballot box.
This gives me little joy, given that they are most likely to turn to Farage.0 -
Dissent is fine, fake news is not.CaptainBuzzkill said:
Go Remainers!TheScreamingEagles said:
Embarrassing.
I think you should never post on Brexit or the law ever again.
Silencing dissenting voices on Brexit since 2016.0 -
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB.
but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both 
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.0 -
Where did I say otherwise?TheScreamingEagles said:
Byronic voted Remain.0 -
Quite. Everybody is acting like the Supreme Court, with its beautiful europrose, has discovered some immutable legal truth. Yet an entirely different court, almost as eminent, sided with the government. So clearly there is an argument to be had.Philip_Thompson said:
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.
And so we proceed to the next skirmish, in the great Brexit Culture War of 2016-30920 -
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Even the Supreme Court might have agreed with Cox, if Boris's dog had not eaten his homework. Paragraph 61:Philip_Thompson said:
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.
It is impossible for us to conclude, on the evidence which has been put before us, that there was any reason - let alone a good reason - to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks, from 9th or 12th September until 14th October. We cannot speculate, in the absence of further evidence, upon what such reasons might have been. It follows that the decision was unlawful.
https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2019-0192-judgment.pdf0 -
A fair question.SouthamObserver said:
The government said that the prorogue has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit. If that is the case, why would millions of voters now feel the Supreme Court has politicised itself?CaptainBuzzkill said:
Sadly (and I genuinely mean that) the SC has already politicised itself in the eyes of millions of voters.Gardenwalker said:The attempts by Leavers to politicise the Supreme Court are not only wrong, they are boring.
Byronic has become very tedious all of a sudden.
They are now fair game and I don't see how we won't end up with a nomination system for the SC in the future.
Had Johnson been honest about the reason for the prorogation, he might well still have lost the case (though that is not absolutely clear), but at least there might be some grounds for feeling aggrieved at the decision.0 -
Bercow opens Parliament, welcoming members "back to your place of work"0
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No PMQs today0
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Cox answering a UQ. Baritones in full action
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Byronic was probably distracted by Lord Kerr’s Spanish cousin - Juan.0
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There is though, I feel, some degree of desire for those MPs in place to stop acting like human vermin whose only desire is to generate hate and division.Foxy said:
Indeed the public do not support prorogation when polled, and thought the reasons given were spurious, even the Tory voters.SouthamObserver said:
The government said that the prorogue has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit. If that is the case, why would millions of voters now feel the Supreme Court has politicised itself? What evidence is there that there was a huge groundswell of support to close Parliament down for five weeks, to stop all scrutiny of government activity and to halt the passage of 14 pieces of proposed legislation?CaptainBuzzkill said:
Sadly (and I genuinely mean that) the SC has already politicised itself in the eyes of millions of voters.Gardenwalker said:The attempts by Leavers to politicise the Supreme Court are not only wrong, they are boring.
Byronic has become very tedious all of a sudden.
They are now fair game and I don't see how we won't end up with a nomination system for the SC in the future.
We’d need a written constitution to have politically appointed judges, with strong safeguards against amendments by simple majority. Without one the line-up of judges would change with every government.
I don't get the impression of anger with the judges, and neither does there seem to be enthusiasm for another GE.0 -
One of those days where you wonder if any/how many political careers may be over at the end of it. Of all of the issues besetting them not sure I would want to go into bat for the PM over Ugandan negotiations/pole dancing/private IT lessons0
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If I had resigned every time I lost a case I would probably never had had a law practice! Cox.0
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What a boring fart you are. Get a life saddoByronic said:
Quite. Everybody is acting like the Supreme Court, with its beautiful europrose, has discovered some immutable legal truth. Yet an entirely different court, almost as eminent, sided with the government. So clearly there is an argument to be had.Philip_Thompson said:
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.
And so we proceed to the next skirmish, in the great Brexit Culture War of 2016-30920 -
Just been into TV room to talk to my wife and there was a lady on 'This Morning' who, she said, watches couples having sex in order to advise them on doing it better.Morris_Dancer said:I, for one, am fully willing to believe that Boris Johnson's primary motivation regarding his blonde lady friend was simply for her to show him how to handle his dongle.
No, one has to pay HER!0 -
On topic. I don’t like the FTPA. My reasoning is simple. Either the party(s) who won the last election and formed government shapes the date of the early election, or the losing parties in the last election shapes the date of the early election.
It is black and white as this one or other, in which case
1. what is fairest to own that little bit of power to shape it?
2. If it’s in the hands of the opposition, the losers last time, they can prolong the chaos of a government that is in office but not in power, and that chaos cannot be good for the country, economy, households or anything other than perhaps their parties self interest.
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Snigger.MikeSmithson said:
What a boring fart you are. Get a life saddo0 -
They are also based on a colossal ignorance of the law. Still, who needs experts, eh?Gardenwalker said:The attempts by Leavers to politicise the Supreme Court are not only wrong, they are boring.
Byronic has become very tedious all of a sudden.
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I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB. but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.0 -
Like anything else worth valuing about this country, Leavers have it in their sights, though.Anabobazina said:
We work with clients from all over the world and I can confirm that that’s the case in my experience. English Law is seen as the gold standard, rightly or wrongly.Richard_Nabavi said:
Except that it's true of our judiciary. No-one outside the UK thinks that the NHS is anything great, but it's generally accepted that our judiciary and system of law generally is top-class (which is why so many commercial contracts are written under English law and specify English courts for any dispute).TGOHF2 said:
As mentioned - all seems a bit self congratulatory - like the NHS being the “best in the world”.Pulpstar said:
Clarence Thomas and Ruth Bader Ginsburg are both world class judges by any measure.TGOHF2 said:
Who decided they were world class ? Is there a judge olympics ?rottenborough said:
You can almost guarantee they'll be on opposite sides of any ruling that strays into the political realm too.0 -
What sort of motion should the opposition try to pass? I am thinking of something like:
"The prime Minister, Boris Johnson is hereby censured in the strongest possible terms for involving the Queen in controversial political acts and for actually breaking the law; furthermore this house believes he has lost any authority he may have had to negotiate a brexit deal, so to minimise the time wasted before a general election, the prime minister should resign or send the Benn Act letter requesting a brexit extension."
Probably a bit extreme and break a few conventions, but I can't help feeling Boris through his actions has brought the consequences on himself. Looks a bit too much like a remain agenda, but I can dream can't I?0 -
Turns out a Labour Mayor stopped any more purchases.Scott_P said:1 -
Is it cheaper to pay her for half an hour, than to get an hotel room?OldKingCole said:
Just been into TV room to talk to my wife and there was a lady on 'This Morning' who, she said, watches couples having sex in order to advise them on doing it better.Morris_Dancer said:I, for one, am fully willing to believe that Boris Johnson's primary motivation regarding his blonde lady friend was simply for her to show him how to handle his dongle.
No, one has to pay HER!0 -
Not for long for a lot of them with red rosettes pinned on their weedy chests.rottenborough said:Bercow opens Parliament, welcoming members "back to your place of work"
Annihilation awaits.0 -
Scott_P said:
Revenge is dish best eaten cold. This one is being served up very well chilled indeed.0 -
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB. but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-362996820 -
If that's typical of the usual motion you pass may I recommend Senokot Max Strength.crandles said:What sort of motion should the opposition try to pass? I am thinking of something like:
"The prime Minister, Boris Johnson is hereby censured in the strongest possible terms for involving the Queen in controversial political acts and for actually breaking the law; furthermore this house believes he has lost any authority he may have had to negotiate a brexit deal, so to minimise the time wasted before a general election, the prime minister should resign or send the Benn Act letter requesting a brexit extension."
Probably a bit extreme and break a few conventions, but I can't help feeling Boris through his actions has brought the consequences on himself. Looks a bit too much like a remain agenda, but I can dream can't I?0 -
On the Wrightbus front was talking to some locals about that at the weekend. The company was part of a christian fellowship where informally no contracts were given to those of a roman persuasion (or jobs) - it was functioning as a closed economy for those of a certain christian persuasion. Sadly it turned out the Jesus did not (in this case at least) save.CaptainBuzzkill said:
Turns out a Labour Mayor stopped any more purchases.Scott_P said:1 -
In what way was it 'europrose' ?Byronic said:
Quite. Everybody is acting like the Supreme Court, with its beautiful europrose...Philip_Thompson said:
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.
Or are you just arbitrarily venting again ?0 -
Fair enough. Applies to any professional. What we don't know is what advice he actually gave, since the only evidence provided to the Supreme Court was that provided by Lady Hale.rottenborough said:If I had resigned every time I lost a case I would probably never had had a law practice! Cox.
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Miss Cyclefree, some say revenge is a dish best eaten immediately.0
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On the basis it was not fit for purpose.CaptainBuzzkill said:
Turns out a Labour Mayor stopped any more purchases.Scott_P said:
Another vanity project from Boris 'I make buses' Johnson.0 -
The 1922 is the useless shower who banged the desks in support of Theresa May after she'd mislaid her majority in GE2017 and then gave her a vote of confidence.Scott_P said:0 -
There are certainly things about our system that need reform and, yes, leavers seem keenest to make those changes.Gardenwalker said:
Like anything else worth valuing about this country, Leavers have it in their sights, though.
What leavers do respect though is the democratic will of over 17 million voters.0 -
Have you tried the gnats piss offered for sale at Sydney Cricket Ground? I HAVE tasted worse, but rarely.Byronic said:
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB. but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-362996820 -
This is because of commuter culture.Byronic said:
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB. but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36299682
Same in NZ, and probably US too outside of certain Atlantic Seaboard cities.
Pubs in NZ, with the exception of certain rural pubs, do suck.0 -
Leavers, generally speaking, are the sort of people who form angry mobs outside paediatrician’s houses. That’s not “reform”, it’s just stupidity.CaptainBuzzkill said:
There are certainly things about our system that need reform and, yes, leavers seem keenest to make those changes.Gardenwalker said:
Like anything else worth valuing about this country, Leavers have it in their sights, though.
What leavers do respect though is the democratic will of over 17 million voters.
Thanks for reminding us we had a referendum though. It’s easy to forget!0 -
Yes, a friend of mine said exactly that when his visited Brisbane a few years ago. It's either sitting in the garden in the sweltering heat drinking crap beer or travelling miles to some charmless bar to drink crap beer. He didn't like it. I thought that might have been just a Brisbane thing but from what you say it's more endemic.Byronic said:
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB. but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-362996820 -
I would suggest that's a bit of a holdover from the old Australian licensing laws, where pubs were typically closed at 1800.Byronic said:
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB. but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-362996820 -
Given half the cabinet said such a course of action would be unreasonable, or plain wrong, during the recent leadership election - so they thought it shit, too.Philip_Thompson said:
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.
They weren't even allowed to see Cox's advice ahead of prorogation - so 'reasonable' is hardly convincing.
Fairer to say that he thought he might get away with it, given the reluctance of the courts to intervene on the exercise of the prerogative.
His entire argument was that the court had no right to look at the decision to prorogue.
That was arguable, but a deeply cynical view of the law. Having lost on the law, it's entirely appropriate to throw brickbats in his general direction.
0 -
I think a compromise on 2 is for minority governments to be able to obtain an election if they have clearly lost control of the legislative programme and nobody else could (or wants to try to) form a functioning administration either. One way of doing that would be to reinstate the right to make important policy/legislative votes serve as votes of no confidence.Zephyr said:On topic. I don’t like the FTPA. My reasoning is simple. Either the party(s) who won the last election and formed government shapes the date of the early election, or the losing parties in the last election shapes the date of the early election.
It is black and white as this one or other, in which case
1. what is fairest to own that little bit of power to shape it?
2. If it’s in the hands of the opposition, the losers last time, they can prolong the chaos of a government that is in office but not in power, and that chaos cannot be good for the country, economy, households or anything other than perhaps their parties self interest.
Prolonged periods of zombie government are unlikely to be healthy for the country even in less contentious times. Not just because it increases the chances of poor government or logically incoherent legislation (some which suits the government's policies and some designed to frustrate them) but because it encourages the legislature to dabble directly in the work of the executive - something rather dangerous in terms of checks and balances, since traditionally the main check on the government's executive actions was their accountability to parliament. Who would (which members of) parliament be accountable to if there are, effectively, ministries of the back benches?0 -
Indeed - a life involves not posting on here.MikeSmithson said:
What a boring fart you are. Get a life saddoByronic said:
Quite. Everybody is acting like the Supreme Court, with its beautiful europrose, has discovered some immutable legal truth. Yet an entirely different court, almost as eminent, sided with the government. So clearly there is an argument to be had.Philip_Thompson said:
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.
And so we proceed to the next skirmish, in the great Brexit Culture War of 2016-3092
Cheerio!0 -
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Mr. Walker, the last mob outside a house that springs to mind is the one outside Mogg's home...0
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Yes, that's part of the explanation. Also, the sheer lack of people, and the size of the country - meaning everyone is scattered - makes it hard for local bars to thrive (outside of central Sydney etc)BannedInParis said:
I would suggest that's a bit of a holdover from the old Australian licensing laws, where pubs were typically closed at 1800.Byronic said:
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural dr is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the a. He hated bothTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36299682
Ideally, Australia would have a population of about 150 million. Then it would be be perfect.0 -
Misses the point that the Tories would be the opposition, not CorbynScott_P said:0 -
Philip had a reasonable suggestion for amending it.MyBurningEars said:
I think a compromise on 2 is for minority governments to be able to obtain an election if they have clearly lost control of the legislative programme and nobody else could (or wants to try to) form a functioning administration either. One way of doing that would be to reinstate the right to make important policy/legislative votes serve as votes of no confidence.Zephyr said:On topic. I don’t like the FTPA. My reasoning is simple. Either the party(s) who won the last election and formed government shapes the date of the early election, or the losing parties in the last election shapes the date of the early election.
It is black and white as this one or other, in which case
1. what is fairest to own that little bit of power to shape it?
2. If it’s in the hands of the opposition, the losers last time, they can prolong the chaos of a government that is in office but not in power, and that chaos cannot be good for the country, economy, households or anything other than perhaps their parties self interest.
Prolonged periods of zombie government are unlikely to be healthy for the country even in less contentious times. Not just because it increases the chances of poor government or logically incoherent legislation (some which suits the government's policies and some designed to frustrate them) but because it encourages the legislature to dabble directly in the work of the executive - something rather dangerous in terms of checks and balances, since traditionally the main check on the government's executive actions was their accountability to parliament. Who would (which members of) parliament be accountable to if there are, effectively, ministries of the back benches?
That was surely the logic behind the 14 day window, but the opposition refusing to trigger the window is what is causing this constitutional horlicks. The government should be able to trigger the 14 day window too - then the opposition would [quite reasonably] have 14 days to demonstrate it has its own majority, or we go to the polls.2 -
Deserved. He’s the nearest thing we have to a public enemy. He seems to be courting it too with his broadsides against the judiciary and his lies to the Queen.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Walker, the last mob outside a house that springs to mind is the one outside Mogg's home...
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Indeed Aussie pubs are spartan, drinking dens often with the furniture fixed to the floor for safety when fights break out. Not generally good places to linger.Byronic said:
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural desert outside Sydney is a bit harsh. All of the "Capital Cities" (State and Territory capitals) have decent culture and Canberra particularly punches above it's weight when you consider the low population and that the airport is not international. But there are essentially two cultures in Australia, urban and rural. I would never live in rural australia despite having the most amazing wildlife.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the advantage of being handy if you need to pop back for some reason. OTOH Australia has the advantage of sunshineTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB. but one of my friends who emigrated there and then came back said the place is a cultural desert outside of Sydney. I have no idea if that is true but he said that if you like pubs and sport you will love the place. He hated both
Pubs are important, but unless you find a microbrewery, the beer is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-362996820 -
That is an interesting point.Scott_P said:
Clearly, even the government's own AG believed that a longer still extension would be an abuse of the prerogative power.
Which would reinforce the argument that this particular prerogative is justiciable.
What comprehensively lost the government the case was refusing to provide any reason at all for the unusual length of the prorogation.
(I don't believe Cox should resign either - but I do think he ought to be deeply embarrassed.)0 -
The cabinet didn't discuss this prorogation during the leadership campaign.Nigelb said:
Given half the cabinet said such a course of action would be unreasonable, or plain wrong, during the recent leadership election - so they thought it shit, too.Philip_Thompson said:
The High Court agreed with Cox! So he wasn't being unreasonable.Gardenwalker said:
Shipman is a dick.TGOHF2 said:
The idea was shit at the the time, was generally thought to be shit, was denounced as “executive fiat” by the Speaker, and caused news headlines around the world about the suspension of democracy.
That Cox thought it legal and that we should therefore cut Boris some slack is risible.
But Shipman has become demented by his Leavey-ness.
They weren't even allowed to see Cox's advice ahead of prorogation - so 'reasonable' is hardly convincing.
Fairer to say that he thought he might get away with it, given the reluctance of the courts to intervene on the exercise of the prerogative.
His entire argument was that the court had no right to look at the decision to prorogue.
That was arguable, but a deeply cynical view of the law. Having lost on the law, it's entirely appropriate to throw brickbats in his general direction.
The proposed hypothetical prorogation that Dominic Raab advocated which was rejected during the campaign was a prorogation from start of September until start of November so that Parliament was unable to legislate to prevent Brexit.
The actual prorogation Boris attempted was completely different. The Benn bill would have been impossible under Raab's proposal had it been legal and gone ahead.
Cox himself said today that he couldn't have endorsed a prorogation spanning over the deadline like that.0 -
Mr. Walker, are his children 'enemies' too?
And if you consider him an 'enemy' then you have little to stand on when others consider politicians with whom you agree to be 'enemies'.0 -
No. Timing is everything. And the timing of this has been exquisite.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Cyclefree, some say revenge is a dish best eaten immediately.
0 -
Well we cant accuse the polling companies of herding.Stereotomy said:1 -
Any judge should be able to write a clear and logical judgement, regardless of the outcome.Philip_Thompson said:FPT
I'm not quibbling with the judgment. But I think the Supreme Court could have reached the same conclusion as the English [not UK] High Court and written just as eminently sensible and logical conclusion.Peter_the_Punter said:Read it last nite. Proud of myself. It is however eminently readable, clear and concise.
The reasoning makes you wonder how the UK High Court reached a different decision. Did it consider different facts and issues? I know it doesn't matter in the end, especially as the SC supported the Scottish decision (which I believe was from a higher Court than the UK High Court), but I'd liked to know how it appeared to err so greatly.
Benchful of Leavers?! (Yeah, I know that's silly but in view of some of the tosh written about the Supreme Court judges, and the Scottish Court, couldn't resist.)
It is one of those issues where because the facts are largely obscure you can piece together a few logical points on either side, then build up to a conclusion that is quite clear and concise and logical. However if you'd chosen a few other points, a bit of a different emphasis elsewhere, then you could have come to just as clear, just as concise, just as logical a conclusion but the other way.
In a way its a bit like the famous push polling joke in Yes, Minister. What came forth before, all entirely logical, is what shapes the conclusion at the end. By the time you reach the conclusion there is only one logical conclusion - but had you put forth different points [which they could have] they could reach a different conclusion at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA
The High Court and the Supreme Court both did their job. Neither should be criticised.
Nor does this make us like America. If a majority in the Commons ever don't like a Supreme Court decision they can change the law. Problem solved.0 -
If there was a National Unity (stop giggling) government then logically the government would be any MPs supporting it and the opposition would be any MPs not supporting it.dyedwoolie said:
Misses the point that the Tories would be the opposition, not CorbynScott_P said:
I suspect that the gritted teeth acquiescence of Jezbollah would have his front bench officially abstaining but giving the rest of the party leave to vote freely. Same with the ex-Tory rebels. So Corbyn and Johnson both on the opposition benches.
Hopefully the GNU then leaves them there to stew.0 -
You're the mirror image of the more unhinged Brexiters.Gardenwalker said:
Deserved. He’s the nearest thing we have to a public enemy. He seems to be courting it too with his broadsides against the judiciary and his lies to the Queen.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Walker, the last mob outside a house that springs to mind is the one outside Mogg's home...
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I think its more than just that. There is a culture of having a drink with your friends outside around a BBQ.Byronic said:
Yes, that's part of the explanation. Also, the sheer lack of people, and the size of the country - meaning everyone is scattered - makes it hard for local bars to thrive (outside of central Sydney etc)BannedInParis said:
I would suggest that's a bit of a holdover from the old Australian licensing laws, where pubs were typically closed at 1800.Byronic said:
The weird and unexpected thing about Oz is that they don't have a great pub culture. Outside of a few urban hipster-spots, there isn't that tradition of a "few beers after work with friends/colleagues". Instead people go home to their houses in the sprawling burbs, and booze in the backyard.Beibheirli_C said:
I thought Aussie beer was supposed to be good? But then, all beer tastes dredful as far as I am concerned. I still have not got over a good friend in CAMRA's pub crawl where he promised me spectacular beers. What I got was undrinkable....eristdoof said:
Cultural dr is atrocious. After 18 months of trying, I gave up on beer and drank cider in pubs.Beibheirli_C said:
Ireland has the a. He hated bothTheScreamingEagles said:FPT
Despite being fluent in several languages including French and German I'm only looking at English speaking countries, as I'd be taking my parents with me as well and they speak English, Urdu, and PunjabiBeibheirli_C said:
So, do your emigration plans centre on EU countries?TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
So Ireland is one possibility, I like Canada, have friends and family there, and Australia too, another a friend keeps on offering me a job with NAB.
Brits often find this very isolating, get depressed, and fly home. Boomerang people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36299682
Ideally, Australia would have a population of about 150 million. Then it would be be perfect.
In the UK its wet and miserable much of the year and people drink in pubs, then when the weather is nice have BBQs or drink in pubs with beer gardens. The Aussie culture of having a barbecue with your mates makes sense for them.0 -
Cox ripping into parliament0
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Deservedly too.dyedwoolie said:Cox ripping into parliament
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Cox - THIS IS A DEAD PARLIAMENT, IT HAS NO RIGHT TO SIT
Blimey. Resign the government then mate.0 -
Barnstormingly Churchillian from Geoffrey Cox there!0
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Yeah. He’s a disgrace.dyedwoolie said:Cox ripping into parliament
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No surprise and sensible integration now that Sainsburys own Argos. But another 70 often quite large and prominent sites to close on ' High Streets '
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/25/sainsburys-close-70-argos-stores-reorganisation0 -
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I don't think the current Parliament is much liked by the voters.Gallowgate said:
Yeah. He’s a disgrace.dyedwoolie said:Cox ripping into parliament
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Cox - THIS PARLIAMENT IS A DISGRACE
When was the last time that the Attourney General of Her Majesty's Government called the parliament it leads a disgrace?
Jesus...0 -
There has been a fall in Tory support, is what I'm seeing/sensing,FrancisUrquhart said:
Well we cant accuse the polling companies of herding.Stereotomy said:0 -
Cox does not see the hypocrisy of saying the people should have a chance to vote again.2
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Foxy said:Byronic said:Beibheirli_C said:eristdoof said:Beibheirli_C said:TheScreamingEagles said:
FPT
The inner suburbs of most large Aussie cities have plenty of good pubs and bars but they do tend to be different to what you’d expect in the uk - it’s a foreign country after all.Beibheirli_C said:
So,TheScreamingEagles said:Yes, lawyers only became rich after we joined the EU.
As Cyclefree and myself have pointed out the legal profession actually needs a No Deal Brexit to increase earnings further.
Indeed Aussie pubs are spartan, drinking dens often with the furniture fixed to the floor for safety when fights break out. Not generally good places to linger.
Adelaide in particular has some great traditional type pubs all over the city.
The suburbs are a different matter, pubs such as they exist are generally awful.
It’s a different culture , people socialise in different ways.0 -
Interesting that Cox is speaking about a 1 line bill.
Not sure why they didn't try that first before prorogation?0 -
"Don't be so dramatic, darling!"Bob__Sykes said:Barnstormingly Churchillian from Geoffrey Cox there!
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No sound but Cox looks like a man enjoying himself.0
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"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!"Gallowgate said:Cox does not see the hypocrisy of saying the people should have a chance to vote again.
1 -
What is the hypocrisy exactly? Parliament is deadlocked. There's an impasse. It's a mess. A general election is needed. Something quite different from wanting a referendum re-held because you don't like the result of the first one.Gallowgate said:Cox does not see the hypocrisy of saying the people should have a chance to vote again.
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Not at all. In our constitutional settlement a non-binding referendum has Primacy over any subsequent elections. Any fool knows that. Its profoundly undemocratic to suggest that a government not be held to the policies of its predecessors...Gallowgate said:Cox does not see the hypocrisy of saying the people should have a chance to vote again.
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I don't think this is right, is it?
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1176816002941837313
I thought the only way that the government falls under the FTPA is a specific vote of no-confidence. So we could have the very odd situation of the Queen's Speech being voted down but the zombie government left undead.
All of this nonsense follows from Boris's brain-dead October 31st pledge.0 -
That'd be good. Especially if JC had one more follower than BJ, and would consequently be called before him.RochdalePioneers said:
If there was a National Unity (stop giggling) government then logically the government would be any MPs supporting it and the opposition would be any MPs not supporting it.dyedwoolie said:
Misses the point that the Tories would be the opposition, not CorbynScott_P said:
I suspect that the gritted teeth acquiescence of Jezbollah would have his front bench officially abstaining but giving the rest of the party leave to vote freely. Same with the ex-Tory rebels. So Corbyn and Johnson both on the opposition benches.
Hopefully the GNU then leaves them there to stew.0 -
Be careful what you wish for.RochdalePioneers said:Cox - THIS IS A DEAD PARLIAMENT, IT HAS NO RIGHT TO SIT
Blimey. Resign the government then mate.0 -
Government tactics becoming clear via coxs statements0
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Cox now baiting the opposition to post a VONC to bring down his government. He KNOWS they do not have the confidence of the house and demands it be put out of its misery.
So that answers the "Does Johnson have the confidence of the house" question of the other day. According to the AG the answer is No0 -
Exactly. The people made their decision. The problem is parliament refusing to make theirs.KentRising said:
What is the hypocrisy exactly? Parliament is deadlocked. There's an impasse. It's a mess. A general election is needed. Something quite different from wanting a referendum re-held because you don't like the result of the first one.Gallowgate said:Cox does not see the hypocrisy of saying the people should have a chance to vote again.
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I thought that Remainders just want to repeal A50, without a vote.Gallowgate said:Cox does not see the hypocrisy of saying the people should have a chance to vote again.
0 -
Round here, Argos always seems busy and the Argos section of Sainsbury's is a ghost town. Sainsbury's might be shooting itself in the foot if Argos customers do not transfer en masse.Yellow_Submarine said:No surprise and sensible integration now that Sainsburys own Argos. But another 70 often quite large and prominent sites to close on ' High Streets '
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/25/sainsburys-close-70-argos-stores-reorganisation0 -
Johnson could resign the Gov't on his Queens Speech failing though. That he may strictly not need to will be a debated constitutional point but of little import to the overall narrative. It provides a bloody good excuse to collapse his own Gov't.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't think this is right, is it?
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1176816002941837313
I thought the only way that the government falls under the FTPA is a specific vote of no-confidence. So we could have the very odd situation of the Queen's Speech being voted down but the zombie government left undead.
All of this nonsense follows from Boris's brain-dead October 31st pledge.0 -
You clearly don’t like the result of the last GE. Deal with it, like you’ve been telling us to.KentRising said:
What is the hypocrisy exactly? Parliament is deadlocked. There's an impasse. It's a mess. A general election is needed. Something quite different from wanting a referendum re-held because you don't like the result of the first one.Gallowgate said:Cox does not see the hypocrisy of saying the people should have a chance to vote again.
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Its got absolutely the square root of nothing to do with 31/10.Richard_Nabavi said:I don't think this is right, is it?
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1176816002941837313
I thought the only way that the government falls under the FTPA is a specific vote of no-confidence. So we could have the very odd situation of the Queen's Speech being voted down but the zombie government left undead.
All of this nonsense follows from Boris's brain-dead October 31st pledge.
If Parliament had voted for an election it would have been held weeks before 31/10 and a new PM could have requested an extension if they'd wanted one.0
This discussion has been closed.