An alternative interpretation to the polling. There is a group of people who think we must leave the EU at any cost. There is an equally implacable group who will not countenance leaving. But there is a large group in the middle who just want it over and wish they’d never heard of Brexit.
At the moment a large, even majority, of this latter group are telling pollsters that we should leave as ASAP as they see that as the path most likely to deliver what they want - an end to the current deadlock. But if, there were more extensions, and particularly if somehow, revoke looked possible or did come about then many in this group might switch. Because revoke would remove the dagger over our head and there would be a chance of moving on. Parties would be free to try and reopen the debate again, but they may find it not as politically profitable as they think.
If this is the case, then the Libdem policy of looking to go straight to revoke is several times better than offering referendums etc, which will just prolong the agony.
And of course, many of the people who are now saying "Just get on with it" will be among the first to complain if we get on with it and it goes badly wrong.
There is no chance of moving on with Revoke. The most Brexity third would be so furious it guarantees the Tories stand on a Leave manifesto for elections to come. It will be as totemic to them as Scottish independence is for the SNP. Sooner or later they would get a majority.
The main issue with Laura is not her bias. It’s that she’s just a bit shit. Probably the most ordinary, mediocre journalist ever to get that job. Just crap.
That is ridiculous. She is one of the BBC's best journalists. Far better than Peston ever was.
Laura has been effectively acting as government PR on this. Unattributed quote criticising the judges and judge positive reporting on can do spirit and attitude.
This is more shameless than Nick Robinson's post election performance in 2010
She just parrots the government (or, less occasionally, the opposition) line.
She is a lazy non-journalist, who couldn’t find a story in a Beatrix Potter compendium.
This really is a energetic campaign against her by Labour isn’t it ?
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
If they can see a gap through which they can squeeze brexit (or the voter-approved cancellation thereof) they'd be mad not to take it. There's no guarantee the arithmetic will line up to settle it one way or another after a GE.
Laura has been effectively acting as government PR on this. Unattributed quote criticising the judges and judge positive reporting on can do spirit and attitude.
This is more shameless than Nick Robinson's post election performance in 2010
She just parrots the government (or, less occasionally, the opposition) line.
She is a lazy non-journalist, who couldn’t find a story in a Beatrix Potter compendium.
This really is a energetic campaign against her by Labour isn’t it ?
Conservative MPs who have lost the whip would face a dilemma if they are looking for a route back. Were Corbyn to be PM their decision would be easy. However, they can hardly VONC Beckett on the grounds that she is a Marxist threat to national security. But if they have not given up hope of standing again as a Conservative candidate, they would need to find an excuse to VONC a government headed by a non-Corbyn Labour PM, or they would surely find themselves out of the party for good.
The solution is for the caretaker to be Sylvia Hermon, who everyone can support to preserve peace in NI.
She also has the advantage of not being able to snaffle leadership of the Labour Party away from Corbyn if things go too well.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
A gaffe by Democrats, when the Republicans tried to impeach President Clinton it only ended up increasing his popularity and while it passed in the House it failed in the Senate much as this effort would
How did it go for Nixon?
They tried to impeach Clinton for a property deal where he lost money and had to settle for a blow job instead.
Trump has done lots of actual crimes. There are differences here.
Nope. I’m with HY here. Which actual crime you convicting him on? When he releases the transcript and he has committed no crime.
You go into court where you have the evidence to secure a conviction. I’m calling this as democrats sabre rattling with the threat, they don’t have the evidence.
What actual crimes did Clinton commit ? He was still impeached. No one is talking about removal from office. Remember Nixon resigned not removed.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
How many referendums do we get to make the right choice?
Laura has been effectively acting as government PR on this. Unattributed quote criticising the judges and judge positive reporting on can do spirit and attitude.
This is more shameless than Nick Robinson's post election performance in 2010
She just parrots the government (or, less occasionally, the opposition) line.
She is a lazy non-journalist, who couldn’t find a story in a Beatrix Potter compendium.
Yes, I think she means well and isn't (intentionally) biased, but she's hopelessly out of her depth. She completely misunderstands what the role of a political journalist is supposed to be.
The contrast between her analysis and Katya Adler's, when they put the two of them on back-to-back, is so obvious.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
If they can see a gap through which they can squeeze brexit (or the voter-approved cancellation thereof) they'd be mad not to take it. There's no guarantee the arithmetic will line up to settle it one way or another after a GE.
To then get mind numbingly slaughtered at the next election after a rigged election with a turnout of 40% ?
Laura has been effectively acting as government PR on this. Unattributed quote criticising the judges and judge positive reporting on can do spirit and attitude.
This is more shameless than Nick Robinson's post election performance in 2010
She just parrots the government (or, less occasionally, the opposition) line.
She is a lazy non-journalist, who couldn’t find a story in a Beatrix Potter compendium.
This really is a energetic campaign against her by Labour isn’t it ?
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
How many referendums do we get to make the right choice?
As many as it takes, duh. The remainer playbook has been to resist long enough for people to change their minds. Its worked on me, and they hope on enough others (and to dispirit enough leavers) that they will win this time. A GE at the moment is too risky as the public look like making the wrong choice again.
To then get mind numbingly slaughtered at the next election after a rigged election with a turnout of 40% ?
It’s a plan of sorts I guess..
The Leave bloc isn't huge, what remainers need to fear is the alliance of the Leave bloc and the "FFS just get it over with" bloc. The solution is to just get it over with.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
What happens after 31/10 when Jezza is still crap and unpopular?
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
How many referendums do we get to make the right choice?
At least two more than the number of GEs we get before 31st October.
The main issue with Laura is not her bias. It’s that she’s just a bit shit. Probably the most ordinary, mediocre journalist ever to get that job. Just crap.
The main issue with Laura is not her bias. It’s that she’s just a bit shit. Probably the most ordinary, mediocre journalist ever to get that job. Just crap.
How many referendums do we get to make the right choice?
Just one more, on a practical, immediately applicable deal, and it's binding and automatic, so if you vote Leave in it it will happen with no further action from Parliament.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
What happens after 31/10 when Jezza is still crap and unpopular?
Hence the attempt to push through a referendum first if that's the case. Much trickier to get through and hold things together, but if the Tories are still riding high it's the next best option for parliamentary remainers.
Conservative MPs who have lost the whip would face a dilemma if they are looking for a route back. Were Corbyn to be PM their decision would be easy. However, they can hardly VONC Beckett on the grounds that she is a Marxist threat to national security. But if they have not given up hope of standing again as a Conservative candidate, they would need to find an excuse to VONC a government headed by a non-Corbyn Labour PM, or they would surely find themselves out of the party for good.
The solution is for the caretaker to be Sylvia Hermon, who everyone can support to preserve peace in NI.
She also has the advantage of not being able to snaffle leadership of the Labour Party away from Corbyn if things go too well.
Preserve peace? Brexit does not impact on peace here unless people go to violence over it and being frank I've noticed next to no evidence that anyone beyond the usual suspects will attempt to use it. Its not exactly as if the Provos and the UVF are oiling the machine guns. Its a choice to do so, not an inevitability.
The reality is that Brexit in itself is not going to be a cause of violence on the streets. Its an excuse, thats all, not a cause. People will shuttle across that border without fuss no matter.
The entire intelligence reporting being touted by the police concerns policing customs arrangement in areas where they are fuck all liked anyway, so they won't be doing it there in the first place. The police have no intelligence that trouble WILL grow, none and they haven't indicated a firm view that it will either. That sections of republicanism will use it is just a product of the fact they, like all extremists, use any old load of crap as a slight anyway and anyone knows for that last 20 odd years they have existed all along.
This place may be quieter but trouble, paramilitary violence and street disturbances happen on a fairly regular basis with the exact same motivations as per the last 40 odd years.
I can’t possibly give a fuck about Bozo Bunter misleading the Queen.
The Queen shouldn’t be involved. The monarchy is a joke. The biggest welfare scam going: albeit involuntary for the poor sods who are forced to benefit from it.
Boris is a lying clown. That’s enough, without involving a 92 year old lady who was born into this fiasco via genetic lottery.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
What happens after 31/10 when Jezza is still crap and unpopular?
Hence the attempt to push through a referendum first if that's the case. Much trickier to get through and hold things together, but if the Tories are still riding high it's the next best option for parliamentary remainers.
Another referendum will likely be boycotted by leave. Certainly one with some shandy deal as the only leave option.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
What happens after 31/10 when Jezza is still crap and unpopular?
Hence the attempt to push through a referendum first if that's the case. Much trickier to get through and hold things together, but if the Tories are still riding high it's the next best option for parliamentary remainers.
Any "confirmatory" referendum as I think the phrasing now is will have derisory turnout, probably the only places with high turnout will be very remain areas like London and Bristol. I doubt the Scots will bother too much either.
How many referendums do we get to make the right choice?
Just one more, on a practical, immediately applicable deal, and it's binding and automatic, so if you vote Leave in it it will happen with no further action from Parliament.
If the first time voters I know who voted in the referendum to leave are any indication, that won't convince them. They're utterly convinced parliament will never let us leave and there's no point in voting in any referendum or GE ever again. I wonder how many % such people will cost leave, when even a few could be crucial.
And with virtually no one being able to credibly say they like the deal option in that scenario, and endless clips of leavers saying it is terrible (no matter what the deal is)? Deal would be slaughtered in a vote.
There are several aspects of the paragraph 50 test (does the number show baroness Hale has a sense of humour, I wonder) that are highly subjective and which a court will have no proper basis for assessing in anything remotely like law. We are going to have to live with crazy levels of uncertainty until an electorate of 11 decides what is “democratic “. It’s a bloody awful decision not justified by the determination of the government to piss them off.
I don't think that is right. In normal circumstances, no honourable PM would go anywhere near a borderline case, to the extent that there really haven't been any cases in the last 50 years before this one which might have gone to court. Yes, it's true that the judges have left open the possibility of difficult borderline cases, but so what? PMs should just stay unambiguously within the law and within established convention, as they used to. It's not hard.
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
What happens after 31/10 when Jezza is still crap and unpopular?
Hence the attempt to push through a referendum first if that's the case. Much trickier to get through and hold things together, but if the Tories are still riding high it's the next best option for parliamentary remainers.
Another referendum will likely be boycotted by leave. Certainly one with some shandy deal as the only leave option.
It won’t solve anything for remainers.
There's certainly a chance it will not. I'd like to think I am realistic and think it could get real ugly, and a majority for a party promising leave without a referendum could well win an election held after that, but we've seen many remainers are far more sanguine about that and either think it will all be settled forever, or take the 'just get on with it' message to be in support of remaining, if that ends it, just as some leavers think no deal will 'get on with it' and that will end it too.
There are several aspects of the paragraph 50 test (does the number show baroness Hale has a sense of humour, I wonder) that are highly subjective and which a court will have no proper basis for assessing in anything remotely like law. We are going to have to live with crazy levels of uncertainty until an electorate of 11 decides what is “democratic “. It’s a bloody awful decision not justified by the determination of the government to piss them off.
I don't think that is right. In normal circumstances, no honourable PM would go anywhere near a borderline case, to the extent that there really haven't been any cases in the last 50 years before this one which might have gone to court. Yes, it's true that the judges have left open the possibility of difficult borderline cases, but so what? PMs should just stay unambiguously within the law and within established convention, as they used to. It's not hard.
Would Major's prorogation have passed the new test ?
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
What happens after 31/10 when Jezza is still crap and unpopular?
Hence the attempt to push through a referendum first if that's the case. Much trickier to get through and hold things together, but if the Tories are still riding high it's the next best option for parliamentary remainers.
Another referendum will likely be boycotted by leave. Certainly one with some shandy deal as the only leave option.
It won’t solve anything for remainers.
Will they boycott a straight no deal vs remain one?
Ummm once no deal is off the table why would they need a caretaker PM? #coup
To VONC Boris, and agree someone to serve only for the time necessary to push through a referendum and then, once the people of the UK have made the right choice, to have an election.
No chance that survives long enough for a referendum
Not much choice from them but to try unless they gather the courage to revoke. Or if polls post 31 October indicate Boris has much less chance of winning a GE - then a GE will be back on the table.
What happens after 31/10 when Jezza is still crap and unpopular?
Hence the attempt to push through a referendum first if that's the case. Much trickier to get through and hold things together, but if the Tories are still riding high it's the next best option for parliamentary remainers.
Another referendum will likely be boycotted by leave. Certainly one with some shandy deal as the only leave option.
It won’t solve anything for remainers.
Will they boycott a straight no deal vs remain one?
Parliament will not allow that as a choice. You don't fight so hard to prevent no deal (except in permitting the risk to continue by not voting for a deal) if you are then going to say 'Oh well, if the public say it is ok after all it's ok to risk it'.
Minor point, but if a caretaker/emergency government happens, I really hope they don't try to call it a "government of national unity". People might well think it's the least-worst option from where we are now, but nobody is going to think that it will unify the country. Like with "People's Vote", that attempt at fuzzy and warm branding just confirms that they doth protest too much.
Minor point, but if a caretaker/emergency government happens, I really hope they don't try to call it a "government of national unity". People might well think it's the least-worst option from where we are now, but nobody is going to think that it will unify the country. Like with "People's Vote", that attempt at fuzzy and warm branding just confirms that they doth protest too much.
Minor point, but if a caretaker/emergency government happens, I really hope they don't try to call it a "government of national unity". People might well think it's the least-worst option from where we are now, but nobody is going to think that it will unify the country. Like with "People's Vote", that attempt at fuzzy and warm branding just confirms that they doth protest too much.
Surely the pork barreling over who gets what cabinet appointments etc make it a total impossibility?
Minor point, but if a caretaker/emergency government happens, I really hope they don't try to call it a "government of national unity". People might well think it's the least-worst option from where we are now, but nobody is going to think that it will unify the country. Like with "People's Vote", that attempt at fuzzy and warm branding just confirms that they doth protest too much.
Undoubtedly. The abuse of the word 'unity' in recent times has been nothing short of shameless. The term itself is fine, but in this situation let us not pretend it is about national unity, it would be so divorced from reality it just draws parallels with the absurd names of various juntas about the 'Committe to restore democracy and national harmony' or some such bollocks, and it would be unfair on such a government to allow such an easy comparison based on the name.
Minor point, but if a caretaker/emergency government happens, I really hope they don't try to call it a "government of national unity". People might well think it's the least-worst option from where we are now, but nobody is going to think that it will unify the country. Like with "People's Vote", that attempt at fuzzy and warm branding just confirms that they doth protest too much.
It will be a shame if TissuePrice wins a seat in Parliament - I do try to stand up for them, but I don't know that it is allowed to respect any of our MPs anymore.
Dont forget the referendum boosters are split too. Grieve thinks no deal should be on the ballot
I don't think "No Deal" has the numbers to get on the ballot.
Yes but referendum itself is barely going to pass if at all, then they'd need consensus on what to offer....
Not consensus. Just a majority of 1 in the Commons on what to offer.
No it is still not an easy path, but if they remain afraid of what a GE might throw up, a majority of 1 becomes easier to find.
If referendum passes by (say) 3 votes, it only takes 2 dissenters and there is no agreement on what is put..... referendum will be difficult to get through as a concept anyway
Dont forget the referendum boosters are split too. Grieve thinks no deal should be on the ballot
I don't think "No Deal" has the numbers to get on the ballot.
Yes but referendum itself is barely going to pass if at all, then they'd need consensus on what to offer....
Not consensus. Just a majority of 1 in the Commons on what to offer.
No it is still not an easy path, but if they remain afraid of what a GE might throw up, a majority of 1 becomes easier to find.
I normally vote in everything (Except that time I wasn't able to vote3 in the Police commissioner election because I didn't get a postal in time) but I think I'd boycott a bullshit 'confirmatory' referendum. I'd go for remain if they had the stones to stick "No Deal" on the ballot.
There are several aspects of the paragraph 50 test (does the number show baroness Hale has a sense of humour, I wonder) that are highly subjective and which a court will have no proper basis for assessing in anything remotely like law. We are going to have to live with crazy levels of uncertainty until an electorate of 11 decides what is “democratic “. It’s a bloody awful decision not justified by the determination of the government to piss them off.
I don't think that is right. In normal circumstances, no honourable PM would go anywhere near a borderline case, to the extent that there really haven't been any cases in the last 50 years before this one which might have gone to court. Yes, it's true that the judges have left open the possibility of difficult borderline cases, but so what? PMs should just stay unambiguously within the law and within established convention, as they used to. It's not hard.
Would Major's prorogation have passed the new test ?
The Classical music aficianados are back slapping, only to be chin scratching when the X factor winners prove to be more popular
The sun don’t even have a voodoo poll to back their bias up.
And hulk v spider woman is a better headline.
What will it take for leavers to come to their senses? What is it you really want? Boris tears throat out of young babies to ensure brexit, and here’s a poll supporting him doing it?
There’s more to this world and country than brexit.
There are several aspects of the paragraph 50 test (does the number show baroness Hale has a sense of humour, I wonder) that are highly subjective and which a court will have no proper basis for assessing in anything remotely like law. We are going to have to live with crazy levels of uncertainty until an electorate of 11 decides what is “democratic “. It’s a bloody awful decision not justified by the determination of the government to piss them off.
I don't think that is right. In normal circumstances, no honourable PM would go anywhere near a borderline case, to the extent that there really haven't been any cases in the last 50 years before this one which might have gone to court. Yes, it's true that the judges have left open the possibility of difficult borderline cases, but so what? PMs should just stay unambiguously within the law and within established convention, as they used to. It's not hard.
Would Major's prorogation have passed the new test ?
There are several aspects of the paragraph 50 test (does the number show baroness Hale has a sense of humour, I wonder) that are highly subjective and which a court will have no proper basis for assessing in anything remotely like law. We are going to have to live with crazy levels of uncertainty until an electorate of 11 decides what is “democratic “. It’s a bloody awful decision not justified by the determination of the government to piss them off.
I don't think that is right. In normal circumstances, no honourable PM would go anywhere near a borderline case, to the extent that there really haven't been any cases in the last 50 years before this one which might have gone to court. Yes, it's true that the judges have left open the possibility of difficult borderline cases, but so what? PMs should just stay unambiguously within the law and within established convention, as they used to. It's not hard.
And even in borderline cases, the SC said that they would give governments substantial leeway on the justification for an extended prorogation - provided that they offered such justification. Which would have the great merit of forcing the government to be open about its reasons.
Minor point, but if a caretaker/emergency government happens, I really hope they don't try to call it a "government of national unity". People might well think it's the least-worst option from where we are now, but nobody is going to think that it will unify the country. Like with "People's Vote", that attempt at fuzzy and warm branding just confirms that they doth protest too much.
Undoubtedly. The abuse of the word 'unity' in recent times has been nothing short of shameless. The term itself is fine, but in this situation let us not pretend it is about national unity, it would be so divorced from reality it just draws parallels with the absurd names of various juntas about the 'Committe to restore democracy and national harmony' or some such bollocks, and it would be unfair on such a government to allow such an easy comparison based on the name.
There are several aspects of the paragraph 50 test (does the number show baroness Hale has a sense of humour, I wonder) that are highly subjective and which a court will have no proper basis for assessing in anything remotely like law. We are going to have to live with crazy levels of uncertainty until an electorate of 11 decides what is “democratic “. It’s a bloody awful decision not justified by the determination of the government to piss them off.
I don't think that is right. In normal circumstances, no honourable PM would go anywhere near a borderline case, to the extent that there really haven't been any cases in the last 50 years before this one which might have gone to court. Yes, it's true that the judges have left open the possibility of difficult borderline cases, but so what? PMs should just stay unambiguously within the law and within established convention, as they used to. It's not hard.
Would Major's prorogation have passed the new test ?
Well done Aaron. There was some today at conference footage of a GMB rep saying that there was no way the country could be net zero by 2030 on bbc2 just now.
Conference was, of course, having none of reality. Not when there was virtue to be signalled.
The Classical music aficianados are back slapping, only to be chin scratching when the X factor winners prove to be more popular
The sun don’t even have a voodoo poll to back their bias up.
And hulk v spider woman is a better headline.
What will it take for leavers to come to their senses? What is it you really want? Boris tears throat out of young babies to ensure brexit, and here’s a poll supporting him doing it?
There’s more to this world and country than brexit.
Let the result stand then and get on with the other stuff
Dont forget the referendum boosters are split too. Grieve thinks no deal should be on the ballot
I don't think "No Deal" has the numbers to get on the ballot.
Yes but referendum itself is barely going to pass if at all, then they'd need consensus on what to offer....
Not consensus. Just a majority of 1 in the Commons on what to offer.
No it is still not an easy path, but if they remain afraid of what a GE might throw up, a majority of 1 becomes easier to find.
If referendum passes by (say) 3 votes, it only takes 2 dissenters and there is no agreement on what is put..... referendum will be difficult to get through as a concept anyway
I agree, but while parliament has stunned us with its ability to agree on nothing except kicking the can down the road, at some point they are going to agree on something, however minutely, so however improbable any of the various options presently look one of them will occur.
And given Remain is paradoxically both surging in confidence yet rightly concerned a GE might not be to their favour under current polling, that gives an advantage to any option that leads to Remain and does not involve a GE.
And with virtually no one being able to credibly say they like the deal option in that scenario, and endless clips of leavers saying it is terrible (no matter what the deal is)? Deal would be slaughtered in a vote.
If it's clear that Deal would go down hard and there's no No Deal option then they'd probably be better sticking with TMay-Barnier. But I wonder if Corbyn would go for that.
Con + Lib-Dem + SNP might be able to get us to a general election from the one line motion route?
And.... We're bacl where we were three weeks ago. Here we go again,
Not sure about the Lib Dems, but the SNP repeated tonight that they won't back an election until the extension is signed, sealed, delivered.
Sigh, another month of time to be wasted before something happens then. Debates on getting legal advice, or finding people in contempt or something to pass the time. See everyone in a month?
The Classical music aficianados are back slapping, only to be chin scratching when the X factor winners prove to be more popular
The sun don’t even have a voodoo poll to back their bias up.
And hulk v spider woman is a better headline.
What will it take for leavers to come to their senses? What is it you really want? Boris tears throat out of young babies to ensure brexit, and here’s a poll supporting him doing it?
There’s more to this world and country than brexit.
Let the result stand then and get on with the other stuff
Let it stand, but it’s still not for ever. For how long? Remain or leave now and it could be completely the other way round in 8 years as new ways explored and don’t prove better and the electorate changes.
You leavers are becoming obsessed and consumed by brexit, but what will it really bring you? Something of more value than everything being trashed getting there?
And what is honouring the cherished 2016 result anyway, leave with no deal, full clean break, or only with the promised easy deal, sunlit uplands, brexit dividend to spray around?
The Classical music aficianados are back slapping, only to be chin scratching when the X factor winners prove to be more popular
The sun don’t even have a voodoo poll to back their bias up.
And hulk v spider woman is a better headline.
What will it take for leavers to come to their senses? What is it you really want? Boris tears throat out of young babies to ensure brexit, and here’s a poll supporting him doing it?
There’s more to this world and country than brexit.
It's hardly just leavers focused on this issue to exclusion of all else. Clearly both sides think it essential to resolve Brexit before anything else, or else remainers would be a lot more phlegmatic about us leaving in the first place.
There was recently some discussion about employment changes in individual US states and someone (Foxy ??) wondered what the corresponding UK situation would be.
Well after looking at more than enough ONS data these are the changes in employment and unemployment rates in the three years since the Referendum:
With the overall UK employment rate increasing by 1.6% and unemployment rate decreasing by 1.1%.
Which means that the West Midlands, South West and Northern Ireland have done better than average on both employment and unemployment rates while East Midlands, East, South East, Wales and Scotland have done worse than average on both measures.
This doesn't give any indication as to variations within each region.
It was me, but I was more interested in shorter term changes, perhaps quarterly, as a leading indicator of recession and where it is hitting. Inspired by this:
The problem is that the ONS regional data is a bit erratic and I suspect that the USA will have similar problems.
For what its worth the change in employment rate from the last quarter is:
West Mids +0.7% Norn Ire +0.7% South West +0.6% East Mids +0.5% North East +0.4% South East +0.4% Yorkshire +0.2% East -0.0% North West -0.3% London -0.6% Wales -0.8% Scotland -1.0%
There are several aspects of the paragraph 50 test (does the number show baroness Hale has a sense of humour, I wonder) that are highly subjective and which a court will have no proper basis for assessing in anything remotely like law. We are going to have to live with crazy levels of uncertainty until an electorate of 11 decides what is “democratic “. It’s a bloody awful decision not justified by the determination of the government to piss them off.
I don't think that is right. In normal circumstances, no honourable PM would go anywhere near a borderline case, to the extent that there really haven't been any cases in the last 50 years before this one which might have gone to court. Yes, it's true that the judges have left open the possibility of difficult borderline cases, but so what? PMs should just stay unambiguously within the law and within established convention, as they used to. It's not hard.
Would Major's prorogation have passed the new test ?
I imagine so.
I'm not sure Attlee's would though!
For what reason ?
It was clearly designed to circumvent the normal operation of Parliament and the conventional provisions that limited but respected the rights of the Lords. It stymied the normal procedure. Disrespect for convention and the actual effect of the prorogation was at the heart of the SC judgement.
It is worth noting, however, that Rasmussen has a strong Republican tilt. They even forecast the Republicans would win the Congressional ballot last time around. (Actual result: D + 9)
The Classical music aficianados are back slapping, only to be chin scratching when the X factor winners prove to be more popular
The sun don’t even have a voodoo poll to back their bias up.
And hulk v spider woman is a better headline.
What will it take for leavers to come to their senses? What is it you really want? Boris tears throat out of young babies to ensure brexit, and here’s a poll supporting him doing it?
There’s more to this world and country than brexit.
Let the result stand then and get on with the other stuff
Let it stand, but it’s still not for ever. For how long? Remain or leave now and it could be completely the other way round in 8 years as new ways explored and don’t prove better and the electorate changes.
You leavers are becoming obsessed and consumed by brexit, but what will it really bring you? Something of more value than everything being trashed getting there?
And what is honouring the cherished 2016 result anyway, leave with no deal, full clean break, or only with the promised easy deal, sunlit uplands, brexit dividend to spray around?
You are lost.
Its not Leavers going on marches to try and get the result overturned/organising second referendums etc. If it's no big deal, just accept we won.
The main issue with Laura is not her bias. It’s that she’s just a bit shit. Probably the most ordinary, mediocre journalist ever to get that job. Just crap.
That is ridiculous. She is one of the BBC's best journalists. Far better than Peston ever was.
LOL.
She hasn’t broken a decent story in living memory.
Laura has been effectively acting as government PR on this. Unattributed quote criticising the judges and judge positive reporting on can do spirit and attitude.
This is more shameless than Nick Robinson's post election performance in 2010
She just parrots the government (or, less occasionally, the opposition) line.
She is a lazy non-journalist, who couldn’t find a story in a Beatrix Potter compendium.
This really is a energetic campaign against her by Labour isn’t it ?
🤔I’m nothing to do with the Labour Party. Laura is just, well, a bit crap.
Comments
https://www.whosampled.com/The-Avalanches/Frankie-Sinatra/
Probably orchestrated by the shadowy KLOBUCHAR
The contrast between her analysis and Katya Adler's, when they put the two of them on back-to-back, is so obvious.
It’s a plan of sorts I guess..
https://twitter.com/AaronBell4NuL/status/1176593835385872384
https://twitter.com/commonsliaison/status/1176519806981484546?s=21
But there's no obsession.
The reality is that Brexit in itself is not going to be a cause of violence on the streets. Its an excuse, thats all, not a cause. People will shuttle across that border without fuss no matter.
The entire intelligence reporting being touted by the police concerns policing customs arrangement in areas where they are fuck all liked anyway, so they won't be doing it there in the first place. The police have no intelligence that trouble WILL grow, none and they haven't indicated a firm view that it will either. That sections of republicanism will use it is just a product of the fact they, like all extremists, use any old load of crap as a slight anyway and anyone knows for that last 20 odd years they have existed all along.
This place may be quieter but trouble, paramilitary violence and street disturbances happen on a fairly regular basis with the exact same motivations as per the last 40 odd years.
The Queen shouldn’t be involved. The monarchy is a joke. The biggest welfare scam going: albeit involuntary for the poor sods who are forced to benefit from it.
Boris is a lying clown. That’s enough, without involving a 92 year old lady who was born into this fiasco via genetic lottery.
It won’t solve anything for remainers.
And with virtually no one being able to credibly say they like the deal option in that scenario, and endless clips of leavers saying it is terrible (no matter what the deal is)? Deal would be slaughtered in a vote.
Could it possibly been influenced by the fun had at expense of the English trump today.
Transitional government perhaps.
https://order-order.com/2019/09/24/snap-poll-vast-majority-want-parliament-get-brexit/
No it is still not an easy path, but if they remain afraid of what a GE might throw up, a majority of 1 becomes easier to find.
I hope you'll be a worthy successor to Thomas Thicknesse.
And.... We're bacl where we were three weeks ago. Here we go again,
And hulk v spider woman is a better headline.
What will it take for leavers to come to their senses? What is it you really want? Boris tears throat out of young babies to ensure brexit, and here’s a poll supporting him doing it?
There’s more to this world and country than brexit.
Which would have the great merit of forcing the government to be open about its reasons.
Conference was, of course, having none of reality. Not when there was virtue to be signalled.
And given Remain is paradoxically both surging in confidence yet rightly concerned a GE might not be to their favour under current polling, that gives an advantage to any option that leads to Remain and does not involve a GE.
BXP 52% say yes
LD 51%
Con 41%
Lab 29%
Good luck the PB candidate, however unsound on Brexit.
You leavers are becoming obsessed and consumed by brexit, but what will it really bring you? Something of more value than everything being trashed getting there?
And what is honouring the cherished 2016 result anyway, leave with no deal, full clean break, or only with the promised easy deal, sunlit uplands, brexit dividend to spray around?
You are lost.
Presumably you will be happy about that?
More to the point, why Mags Beckett? Harriet or Kenny Clarke would be a better option.
She hasn’t broken a decent story in living memory.
Today’s SC ruling will reinforce the narrative that he can’t be trusted and is a liar.
If Bozo can lie to the Queen , lie to MPs and lie to the public why on earth would you trust him on the NHS and any other promises he might make .
Laura is just, well, a bit crap.