politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Bad Boys Of Brexit. A review
Comments
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Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.0 -
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
Yep, I agree. But he will not be remembered as the last PM of the UK. That will be Johnson.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
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He believed his spin that austerity was popular and didn't really affect people (and if it did, well they were Labour voters so fuck 'em)SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
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Nah, I am sure that there will be a further PM before Scottish independence. Indeed BoZo may not make it to Christmas.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, I agree. But he will not be remembered as the last PM of the UK. That will be Johnson.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.0 -
Point taken - though I'd like to see the Supreme Court decision on prorogation first before |I felt as brave as you.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, I agree. But he will not be remembered as the last PM of the UK. That will be Johnson.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.0 -
https://twitter.com/IanJespersen/status/1172801362251460608?s=20RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
Anecdotes from today:
Person1 (Labour voter, pro-EU): "I accepted the result, then the revelations made me want a second referendum, now I want revoke"
Me: "So you'll be voting Lib Dem next time round then?"
Person1: "Never. They're a bunch of Tories"
Me: "But the Tories who've defected there are on the liberal wing..."
Person1: "Doesn't matter. Still Tories. And so is Swinson. Coalition. Not voting for them"
---
Person2 (Labour voter, very very mildly pro-Remain): "This revoke thing is a big mistake. It's not going to go down well. Plus the Lib Dems are splitting the remain vote"
Me: "Splitting the Remain vote?"
Person2: "Yes, they're trying to take votes from Labour"
Me: "Is Labour in favour of Remain then?"
Person2: "Yes"
---
Conclusion: the Lib Dems are Tories and they're trying to steal votes from Labour by adopting a policy that's different from Labour and won't be popular anyway. The revoke policy is stealing votes from Labour even though it isn't what people want, except the person who does want it but won't vote for it.
Both people say they will stick with Labour. I bit my tongue pretty hard today
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No point wasting valuable thinking time on the possibility of the Faragists winning a GE.MarqueeMark said:
Sir, what is anti-democratic about winning a GE with a central manifesto pledge of No Deal, and then doing it. Is it still "Nothing", Sir?Streeter said:
Sir, sir, is it ‘nothing’ sir?timple said:
What is anti democratic about winning a GE with a central manifesto pledge of "Revoke" and then doing it?Byronic said:
Of course more than 10% want to Remain. It's nearer 50% than 10%.stodge said:
While I'm tempted to say "you would day that, wouldn't you?" I'd note the 14% swing from Con to LD in the latest ComRes but I'm sure you'll quote Opinium back at me so fine.HYUFD said:
This policy will split the Remainer vote though, revoke with the LDs for die hard Remainers is a better option than referendum on a Labour Brexit with Corbyn.
While the Leaver vote was split between Deal with May or No Deal with the Brexit Party, Boris has largely united it behind the Tories on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform.
So the main winner today under FPTP is Boris
The policy is to Revoke if the Party wins a Parliamentary majority otherwise it's to support a second vote and continue to block a No Deal which is completely consistent. Why wouldn't those wishing to Remain (more than 10% I suspect) have a clear and unambiguous voice?
The Conservatives are currently riding both the horses of No Deal AND leaving with a Deal but the time is fast approaching when they will be forced to decide which horse they are really on. With No Deal blocked, the options then become leaving with a WA (really?) or storming off in a huff with the traditional Conservative attitude of evading responsibility and leaving the tough decisions to others.
But how many want to simply Revoke, and sod democracy? 10%? 15%? And how many will be comfortable with a party that espouses the cancellation of votes?
It's a deeply stupid policy.0 -
That NY Times article that said that "But while we found Dr. Ford’s allegations credible during a 10-month investigation..."?TheScreamingEagles said:
Thanks.Alistair said:
The New York Times original tweet promoting the story is also worthy of commentTheScreamingEagles said:
ThanksNigelb said:
More corroboration for an allegation dismissed during his hearing as being without evidence:TheScreamingEagles said:
What are the latest revelations about Kavanaugh?Alistair said:My girl Lizzie Warren pushing a 2 for 1 deal on impeachment
https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1173290967773982722?s=19
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/sunday-review/brett-kavanaugh-deborah-ramirez-yale.html
https://nypost.com/2019/09/15/nyt-deletes-bizarre-brett-kavanaugh-tweet-about-having-a-penis-thrust-in-your-face/
The mere fact the NYT even attempts to defend Ford Blasey's evidence shows what a joke they are given it was so full of holes.
On the other hand, I haven't seen the NYT doing too much digging recently into the rape allegations against the (Democratic) Lt Gov of Virginia...0 -
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?timple said:
What is anti democratic about winning a GE with a central manifesto pledge of "Revoke" and then doing it?Byronic said:
Of course more than 10% want to Remain. It's nearer 50% than 10%.stodge said:
While I'm tempted to say "you would day that, wouldn't you?" I'd note the 14% swing from Con to LD in the latest ComRes but I'm sure you'll quote Opinium back at me so fine.HYUFD said:
This policy will split the Remainer vote though, revoke with the LDs for die hard Remainers is a better option than referendum on a Labour Brexit with Corbyn.
While the Leaver vote was split between Deal with May or No Deal with the Brexit Party, Boris has largely united it behind the Tories on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform.
So the main winner today under FPTP is Boris
The policy is to Revoke if the Party wins a Parliamentary majority otherwise it's to support a second vote and continue to block a No Deal which is completely consistent. Why wouldn't those wishing to Remain (more than 10% I suspect) have a clear and unambiguous voice?
The Conservatives are currently riding both the horses of No Deal AND leaving with a Deal but the time is fast approaching when they will be forced to decide which horse they are really on. With No Deal blocked, the options then become leaving with a WA (really?) or storming off in a huff with the traditional Conservative attitude of evading responsibility and leaving the tough decisions to others.
But how many want to simply Revoke, and sod democracy? 10%? 15%? And how many will be comfortable with a party that espouses the cancellation of votes?
It's a deeply stupid policy.
If you're comfortable with that, then I also presume you're comfortable with Nigel Farage leading us out of the EU on a no referendum, no deal, no further negotiation policy at a future GE?0 -
We take back control of our country. In In In!egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
Blimey. Confirmatory evidence that the bulk of the remaining Labour vote has the intellect of a stuffed rabbit.Noo said:Anecdotes from today:
Person1 (Labour voter, pro-EU): "I accepted the result, then the revelations made me want a second referendum, now I want revoke"
Me: "So you'll be voting Lib Dem next time round then?"
Person1: "Never. They're a bunch of Tories"
Me: "But the Tories who've defected there are on the liberal wing..."
Person1: "Doesn't matter. Still Tories. And so is Swinson. Coalition. Not voting for them"
---
Person2 (Labour voter, very very mildly pro-Remain): "This revoke thing is a big mistake. It's not going to go down well. Plus the Lib Dems are splitting the remain vote"
Me: "Splitting the Remain vote?"
Person2: "Yes, they're trying to take votes from Labour"
Me: "Is Labour in favour of Remain then?"
Person2: "Yes"
---
Conclusion: the Lib Dems are Tories and they're trying to steal votes from Labour by adopting a policy that's different from Labour and won't be popular anyway. The revoke policy is stealing votes from Labour even though it isn't what people want, except the person who does want it but won't vote for it.
Both people say they will stick with Labour. I bit my tongue pretty hard today0 -
Its very possible.Streeter said:
No point wasting valuable thinking time on the possibility of the Faragists winning a GE.MarqueeMark said:
Sir, what is anti-democratic about winning a GE with a central manifesto pledge of No Deal, and then doing it. Is it still "Nothing", Sir?Streeter said:
Sir, sir, is it ‘nothing’ sir?timple said:
What is anti democratic about winning a GE with a central manifesto pledge of "Revoke" and then doing it?Byronic said:
Of course more than 10% want to Remain. It's nearer 50% than 10%.stodge said:
While I'm tempted to say "you would day that, wouldn't you?" I'd note the 14% swing from Con to LD in the latest ComRes but I'm sure you'll quote Opinium back at me so fine.HYUFD said:
This policy will split the Remainer vote though, revoke with the LDs for die hard Remainers is a better option than referendum on a Labour Brexit with Corbyn.
While the Leaver vote was split between Deal with May or No Deal with the Brexit Party, Boris has largely united it behind the Tories on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform.
So the main winner today under FPTP is Boris
The policy is to Revoke if the Party wins a Parliamentary majority otherwise it's to support a second vote and continue to block a No Deal which is completely consistent. Why wouldn't those wishing to Remain (more than 10% I suspect) have a clear and unambiguous voice?
The Conservatives are currently riding both the horses of No Deal AND leaving with a Deal but the time is fast approaching when they will be forced to decide which horse they are really on. With No Deal blocked, the options then become leaving with a WA (really?) or storming off in a huff with the traditional Conservative attitude of evading responsibility and leaving the tough decisions to others.
But how many want to simply Revoke, and sod democracy? 10%? 15%? And how many will be comfortable with a party that espouses the cancellation of votes?
It's a deeply stupid policy.0 -
I think assuming it is any different for the average voter of any party is optimistic.ydoethur said:
Blimey. Confirmatory evidence that the bulk of the remaining Labour vote has the intellect of a stuffed rabbit.Noo said:Anecdotes from today:
Person1 (Labour voter, pro-EU): "I accepted the result, then the revelations made me want a second referendum, now I want revoke"
Me: "So you'll be voting Lib Dem next time round then?"
Person1: "Never. They're a bunch of Tories"
Me: "But the Tories who've defected there are on the liberal wing..."
Person1: "Doesn't matter. Still Tories. And so is Swinson. Coalition. Not voting for them"
---
Person2 (Labour voter, very very mildly pro-Remain): "This revoke thing is a big mistake. It's not going to go down well. Plus the Lib Dems are splitting the remain vote"
Me: "Splitting the Remain vote?"
Person2: "Yes, they're trying to take votes from Labour"
Me: "Is Labour in favour of Remain then?"
Person2: "Yes"
---
Conclusion: the Lib Dems are Tories and they're trying to steal votes from Labour by adopting a policy that's different from Labour and won't be popular anyway. The revoke policy is stealing votes from Labour even though it isn't what people want, except the person who does want it but won't vote for it.
Both people say they will stick with Labour. I bit my tongue pretty hard today0 -
The danger with the Lib Dems revoking without a Referendum is that its likely the Tories would then become a leave without one at a future GE and a majority Tory government could easily then after a future GE ram through a hard Brexit - and once we're out its impossible to just revoke, it becomes about rejoining.0
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Bit rude. Peckham's alright, although it's not New Cross.FrancisUrquhart said:
You would have to pay me £250 to stay in a travelodge, more if it was in peckham.TheScreamingEagles said:
You paid £250 to stay in a Travelodge?AndyJS said:I'm guessing The Oval aren't going to refund everyone who's paying £250 to stay in the Peckham Travelodge.
WORLD'S GONE MAD!0 -
Well, I dunno. I think an awful lot of Tories don't even measure up to that, starting with Johnson and Cummings.kle4 said:
I think assuming it is any different for the average voter of any party is optimistic.ydoethur said:
Blimey. Confirmatory evidence that the bulk of the remaining Labour vote has the intellect of a stuffed rabbit.Noo said:Anecdotes from today:
Person1 (Labour voter, pro-EU): "I accepted the result, then the revelations made me want a second referendum, now I want revoke"
Me: "So you'll be voting Lib Dem next time round then?"
Person1: "Never. They're a bunch of Tories"
Me: "But the Tories who've defected there are on the liberal wing..."
Person1: "Doesn't matter. Still Tories. And so is Swinson. Coalition. Not voting for them"
---
Person2 (Labour voter, very very mildly pro-Remain): "This revoke thing is a big mistake. It's not going to go down well. Plus the Lib Dems are splitting the remain vote"
Me: "Splitting the Remain vote?"
Person2: "Yes, they're trying to take votes from Labour"
Me: "Is Labour in favour of Remain then?"
Person2: "Yes"
---
Conclusion: the Lib Dems are Tories and they're trying to steal votes from Labour by adopting a policy that's different from Labour and won't be popular anyway. The revoke policy is stealing votes from Labour even though it isn't what people want, except the person who does want it but won't vote for it.
Both people say they will stick with Labour. I bit my tongue pretty hard today0 -
Um...are we talking characters or actors? Because if we are talking Black Widow, Thor, Iron Man et al, I have some issues with that list...Scott_P said:
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There could be an inter-regnum, but we’ve got him for the next seven years, I reckon.Foxy said:
Nah, I am sure that there will be a further PM before Scottish independence. Indeed BoZo may not make it to Christmas.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, I agree. But he will not be remembered as the last PM of the UK. That will be Johnson.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
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Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
Just been out with a group of pensioners who are going to cancel their donations to RNLI because of the daily mail article. Well done daily mail you really should have thought it through before putting the whole operation at risk. Don’t know if the RNLI were wrong to spend 2% overseas but it’s going to hit their financial viability.0
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Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.0 -
On topic, thanks for the review but might give this one a miss.0
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The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.1 -
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.0 -
It's 1.4%, assuming £1bn a month. Hardly a fraction of a percent.CatMan said:
https://twitter.com/IanJespersen/status/1172801362251460608?s=20RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
Make that case if you want to justify it, not dismiss it as Gallowgate did with a lie about it being fake. The truth is never fake.eek said:
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.0 -
This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.OnlyLivingBoy said:On topic, thanks for the review but might give this one a miss.
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Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.0 -
All seems pretty reasonable to me. The Labour vote is more solid than people think because a lot of voters understand that if you want to keep the Tories out there is only one game in town, at least in England. I think Labour would get around 25% of the vote and win about 245 seats to the Tories' 290 if an election were held now.Noo said:Anecdotes from today:
Person1 (Labour voter, pro-EU): "I accepted the result, then the revelations made me want a second referendum, now I want revoke"
Me: "So you'll be voting Lib Dem next time round then?"
Person1: "Never. They're a bunch of Tories"
Me: "But the Tories who've defected there are on the liberal wing..."
Person1: "Doesn't matter. Still Tories. And so is Swinson. Coalition. Not voting for them"
---
Person2 (Labour voter, very very mildly pro-Remain): "This revoke thing is a big mistake. It's not going to go down well. Plus the Lib Dems are splitting the remain vote"
Me: "Splitting the Remain vote?"
Person2: "Yes, they're trying to take votes from Labour"
Me: "Is Labour in favour of Remain then?"
Person2: "Yes"
---
Conclusion: the Lib Dems are Tories and they're trying to steal votes from Labour by adopting a policy that's different from Labour and won't be popular anyway. The revoke policy is stealing votes from Labour even though it isn't what people want, except the person who does want it but won't vote for it.
Both people say they will stick with Labour. I bit my tongue pretty hard today0 -
So extremely close to being rounded to 2% then. Which it probably would be before long if we stay.RobD said:
It's 1.4%, assuming £1bn a month. Hardly a fraction of a percent.CatMan said:
https://twitter.com/IanJespersen/status/1172801362251460608?s=20RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
Money I'd rather spend on our own priorities, though spending 25% on Welfare excluding pensions is a ton of money. What austerity?0 -
It is not the truth. It is a dangerous half-truth.Philip_Thompson said:
Make that case if you want to justify it, not dismiss it as Gallowgate did with a lie about it being fake. The truth is never fake.eek said:
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
Something you are so full of glee about but if Labour do the same, you’d be frothing at the mouth.0 -
Feel free to counter these facts with other facts regarding the net contribution. Dismissing them as dangerous is not helpful.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.0 -
No we're not, that's fake news.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.0 -
Exactly. It isn’t helpful.RobD said:
Feel free to counter these facts with other facts regarding the net contribution. Dismissing them as dangerous is not helpful.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.0 -
See what I mean?Philip_Thompson said:
No we're not, that's fake news.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.0 -
Exactly? What are you on about.Gallowgate said:
Exactly. It isn’t helpful.RobD said:
Feel free to counter these facts with other facts regarding the net contribution. Dismissing them as dangerous is not helpful.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.0 -
Quite the opposite, if Labour claimed they weren't taxing us while boasting about how much they're spending like you're trying to do then I'd call that out too.Gallowgate said:
It is not the truth. It is a dangerous half-truth.Philip_Thompson said:
Make that case if you want to justify it, not dismiss it as Gallowgate did with a lie about it being fake. The truth is never fake.eek said:
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
Something you are so full of glee about but if Labour do the same, you’d be frothing at the mouth.0 -
And I’m calling you out.Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite, if Labour claimed they weren't taxing us while boasting about how much they're spending like you're trying to do then I'd call that out too.Gallowgate said:
It is not the truth. It is a dangerous half-truth.Philip_Thompson said:
Make that case if you want to justify it, not dismiss it as Gallowgate did with a lie about it being fake. The truth is never fake.eek said:
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
Something you are so full of glee about but if Labour do the same, you’d be frothing at the mouth.0 -
That you just made up bulls**t?Gallowgate said:
See what I mean?Philip_Thompson said:
No we're not, that's fake news.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.
Have a source for that claim?0 -
On what?Gallowgate said:
And I’m calling you out.Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite, if Labour claimed they weren't taxing us while boasting about how much they're spending like you're trying to do then I'd call that out too.Gallowgate said:
It is not the truth. It is a dangerous half-truth.Philip_Thompson said:
Make that case if you want to justify it, not dismiss it as Gallowgate did with a lie about it being fake. The truth is never fake.eek said:
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
Something you are so full of glee about but if Labour do the same, you’d be frothing at the mouth.0 -
I think they could easily get more.OnlyLivingBoy said:
All seems pretty reasonable to me. The Labour vote is more solid than people think because a lot of voters understand that if you want to keep the Tories out there is only one game in town, at least in England. I think Labour would get around 25% of the vote and win about 245 seats to the Tories' 290 if an election were held now.Noo said:Anecdotes from today:
Person1 (Labour voter, pro-EU): "I accepted the result, then the revelations made me want a second referendum, now I want revoke"
Me: "So you'll be voting Lib Dem next time round then?"
Person1: "Never. They're a bunch of Tories"
Me: "But the Tories who've defected there are on the liberal wing..."
Person1: "Doesn't matter. Still Tories. And so is Swinson. Coalition. Not voting for them"
---
Person2 (Labour voter, very very mildly pro-Remain): "This revoke thing is a big mistake. It's not going to go down well. Plus the Lib Dems are splitting the remain vote"
Me: "Splitting the Remain vote?"
Person2: "Yes, they're trying to take votes from Labour"
Me: "Is Labour in favour of Remain then?"
Person2: "Yes"
---
Conclusion: the Lib Dems are Tories and they're trying to steal votes from Labour by adopting a policy that's different from Labour and won't be popular anyway. The revoke policy is stealing votes from Labour even though it isn't what people want, except the person who does want it but won't vote for it.
Both people say they will stick with Labour. I bit my tongue pretty hard today
Labour succeeds in spite of Corbyn, whereas the Conservative score is more dependent on the opinion of its leader.
Brand.0 -
If you can make up bullsh**t so can I.Philip_Thompson said:
That you just made up bulls**t?Gallowgate said:
See what I mean?Philip_Thompson said:
No we're not, that's fake news.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.
Have a source for that claim?0 -
That's almost certainly not the case.SouthamObserver said:
There could be an inter-regnum, but we’ve got him for the next seven years, I reckon.Foxy said:
Nah, I am sure that there will be a further PM before Scottish independence. Indeed BoZo may not make it to Christmas.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, I agree. But he will not be remembered as the last PM of the UK. That will be Johnson.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.0 -
I quoted facts.Gallowgate said:
If you can make up bullsh**t so can I.Philip_Thompson said:
That you just made up bulls**t?Gallowgate said:
See what I mean?Philip_Thompson said:
No we're not, that's fake news.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.
Have a source for that claim?0 -
Yeah probably be more like ten.Casino_Royale said:
That's almost certainly not the case.SouthamObserver said:
There could be an inter-regnum, but we’ve got him for the next seven years, I reckon.Foxy said:
Nah, I am sure that there will be a further PM before Scottish independence. Indeed BoZo may not make it to Christmas.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, I agree. But he will not be remembered as the last PM of the UK. That will be Johnson.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.0 -
Nah, only bulls can do that. Unicorns have a cow of a job to make anything.Gallowgate said:
If you can make up bullsh**t so can I.Philip_Thompson said:
That you just made up bulls**t?Gallowgate said:
See what I mean?Philip_Thompson said:
No we're not, that's fake news.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.
Have a source for that claim?0 -
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.0 -
The proper answer to this should be "pretty much everything you ever say". You are an abject fantasist on even good days.Philip_Thompson said:
On what?Gallowgate said:
And I’m calling you out.Philip_Thompson said:
Quite the opposite, if Labour claimed they weren't taxing us while boasting about how much they're spending like you're trying to do then I'd call that out too.Gallowgate said:
It is not the truth. It is a dangerous half-truth.Philip_Thompson said:
Make that case if you want to justify it, not dismiss it as Gallowgate did with a lie about it being fake. The truth is never fake.eek said:
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
Something you are so full of glee about but if Labour do the same, you’d be frothing at the mouth.0 -
That's a one-man ego trip, not a party. Its chances of winning a majority are the same as the chances of Joe Root scoring a century at No. 3.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.0 -
Touchéydoethur said:
Nah, only bulls can do that. Unicorns have a cow of a job to make anything.Gallowgate said:
If you can make up bullsh**t so can I.Philip_Thompson said:
That you just made up bulls**t?Gallowgate said:
See what I mean?Philip_Thompson said:
No we're not, that's fake news.Gallowgate said:
Considering we are having to spend MORE replicating what we already get - I think that says it all.Philip_Thompson said:
We do spend a ton of money on EU membership.Gallowgate said:
Yes it is. Its designed to mislead people that we spend a ton of money on EU membership and get nothing back.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
It’s misleading. It’s pathetic. It’s dangerous.
We may get a fraction of our own money back on priorities not chosen by our representatives but that doesn't change that we spend a ton of money on EU membership.
As I said, misleading, dangerous, pathetic.
Have a source for that claim?0 -
Why would I bother doing that when you would simply dismiss it as fake/.Philip_Thompson said:
Make that case if you want to justify it, not dismiss it as Gallowgate did with a lie about it being fake. The truth is never fake.eek said:
And it’s cheap for what we get out of it.Philip_Thompson said:
Its not fake.Gallowgate said:
Not this fake news again.RobD said:
While also sending a billion pounds a month to Brussels?Gallowgate said:
Easy. We stop wasting all this money on ghost ferry contracts, medicine stockpiling, charter flights, etc. and spend it on making this country better such as NHS and infrastructure investments.egg said:
It’s the perfect question to destroy the lib dems with from this moment on, so what exactly do you think happens after you revoke?Philip_Thompson said:
You think revocation would be the end? That's cute!Gallowgate said:The headlines for the Lib Dems are perfect. Unambiguous; no explanation needed.
If you want this nonsense to end; vote Lib Dem.
We get more out of it from the access to markets it provides us than we loss. As I won’t be effected and would likely profit from it personally I’m happy for Boris to have his experiment. If it gets really bad I’ll watch it from the beachside villa I’m looking at tomorrow a0 -
I was talking about a program of government, not a pogrom.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.0 -
I'm not sure what my wife put in my supper but I'm tripping out here.
Either that or this Pet Shop Boys concert is really happening like this.1 -
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.0 -
Serious question: what powers have been devolved to Scotland since the indyref?Casino_Royale said:
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.0 -
Power to set the rates and bands of income tax on non-savings and non-dividend incomeNoo said:
Serious question: what powers have been devolved to Scotland since the indyref?Casino_Royale said:
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.
half the share of VAT receipts in Scotland being assigned to the Scottish government's budget
and power over Air Passenger Duty and Aggregates Levy.0 -
I'm pretty sure the answer's 'none.' That said, I'm not sure whether the tax powers they have were transferred before but never used, or after.Noo said:
Serious question: what powers have been devolved to Scotland since the indyref?Casino_Royale said:
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.0 -
Late, I know, but enjoyable header, thanks @viewcode and well done!0
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But that would involve the Tories taking ownership of Brexit and its consequences. They want to leave EU but with other people's fingerprints on the decisionPhilip_Thompson said:The danger with the Lib Dems revoking without a Referendum is that its likely the Tories would then become a leave without one at a future GE and a majority Tory government could easily then after a future GE ram through a hard Brexit - and once we're out its impossible to just revoke, it becomes about rejoining.
0 -
I'd say its chances become quite good if we end up in a revoke situation. Revoke, followed by five years of simmering resentment and possibly a recession during that time? Nailed on.ydoethur said:
That's a one-man ego trip, not a party. Its chances of winning a majority are the same as the chances of Joe Root scoring a century at No. 3.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.
Which is why revoke is the dumbest idea ever. It turns every election into a referendum on the EU. To keep us in indefinitely remainers would have to win every election, to drag us out without a deal brexiteers only have to win once.0 -
Excellent work, thanks! Is that a complete list?Casino_Royale said:
Power to set the rates and bands of income tax on non-savings and non-dividend incomeNoo said:
Serious question: what powers have been devolved to Scotland since the indyref?Casino_Royale said:
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.
half the share of VAT receipts in Scotland being assigned to the Scottish government's budget
and power over Air Passenger Duty and Aggregates Levy.0 -
One of the things that most angered me about Boris Johnson was when he claimed we should vote leave to get the EU to offer us a much better deal. It was as if the entire political class had no idea what they were dealing with. Referendums are not half-hearted matters and parliament's integrity was already fraying. It was an unbelievably reckless thing to say.Casino_Royale said:
I made that precise argument on here in the weeks leading up to the vote. That that is exactly what the British electorate were intending to achieve.AndyJS said:There's an argument that the best result would have been Remain 50.1%, Leave 49.9% because then the EU may have had to realise how serious things were getting, not just with regard to the UK but also with other countries like Italy, Hungary, Greece, etc.
And I was complemented on it by....SeanT.
0 -
O/T - I know there are other cricket fans on here and on Amazon Prime at the moment the film The Edge is free, Details with how England from 2009 to 2013 became the No 1 team in the world, Also deals with KP and his texts and why the rest ganged up on him. very good reviews and worth a watch,0
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Quite so. I wasn't too clear admittedly. I was thinking specifically about the context of the runup to the referendum and the lack of a max devo option in the referendum which Mr Cameron ruled out, I think, about a year before the vote. As I recall, he was decoyed into it by Mr Salmond. This was despite polling showing it would be the runaway winner in the context of the time. (And I should have added fiscal policy/the £ to defence and foreign policy BTW). That really would have secured the Union for some years. (How many years is a good question in view of what has happened since with Brexit, so perhaps it wouldn't have made that much difference on reflection. But it looked like that at the time, I can assure you.)Casino_Royale said:
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.
But Mr Cameron's destroying the middle ground like that was a major contribution to the jump in the independence vote from about 22-25% at the Edinburgh Agreement to about 52% at the time of the great panic and the Vow by Mr Cameron et aliis.
The failure to offer such a positive option nearly lost Scotland in 2014, and it was only saved at the price of some serious breaches of good faith.
That reflects, arguably, on Mr Cameron's strategic thinking ...0 -
Well of course that majority LD government would first Revoke A50 and then introduce PR to prevent anyone else winning a majority on less than 50% of the vote.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.
Sweet justice.0 -
It's virtually Devo Max by any other name.Casino_Royale said:
power over Air Passenger Duty and Aggregates Levy.0 -
The Daily Mail know that nothing makes their readership angry quite like the thought of their money helping to stop brown kids from drowning.nichomar said:Just been out with a group of pensioners who are going to cancel their donations to RNLI because of the daily mail article. Well done daily mail you really should have thought it through before putting the whole operation at risk. Don’t know if the RNLI were wrong to spend 2% overseas but it’s going to hit their financial viability.
0 -
It's even affected your avatar!Casino_Royale said:I'm not sure what my wife put in my supper but I'm tripping out here.
Either that or this Pet Shop Boys concert is really happening like this.0 -
Nah, having Revoked, next law is electoral reform, and the end of FPTP.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.0 -
I cheated and copied from the BBC website.Noo said:
Excellent work, thanks! Is that a complete list?Casino_Royale said:
Power to set the rates and bands of income tax on non-savings and non-dividend incomeNoo said:
Serious question: what powers have been devolved to Scotland since the indyref?Casino_Royale said:
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.
half the share of VAT receipts in Scotland being assigned to the Scottish government's budget
and power over Air Passenger Duty and Aggregates Levy.
I'm not sure but it chimes with my understanding.0 -
It's been like that for some time!Benpointer said:
It's even affected your avatar!Casino_Royale said:I'm not sure what my wife put in my supper but I'm tripping out here.
Either that or this Pet Shop Boys concert is really happening like this.0 -
Aka 'cockroaches', ™Katie Hopkins.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The Daily Mail know that nothing makes their readership angry quite like the thought of their money helping to stop brown kids from drowning.nichomar said:Just been out with a group of pensioners who are going to cancel their donations to RNLI because of the daily mail article. Well done daily mail you really should have thought it through before putting the whole operation at risk. Don’t know if the RNLI were wrong to spend 2% overseas but it’s going to hit their financial viability.
0 -
Uh ok, I hadn't noticed before. Still - seems appropriate somehow.Casino_Royale said:
It's been like that for some time!Benpointer said:
It's even affected your avatar!Casino_Royale said:I'm not sure what my wife put in my supper but I'm tripping out here.
Either that or this Pet Shop Boys concert is really happening like this.0 -
Looking ahead to the Supreme Court this week.
A very complicated situation because the court could rule the prorogation was lawful in England and unlawful in Scotland .
The court will be desperate to avoid that situation because that would mean it would have to rule it unlawful for the whole UK.
They will try and come to a decision that can rule the same on both counts but of course that might not happen .0 -
Snap - see 9:13pmFoxy said:
Nah, having Revoked, next law is electoral reform, and the end of FPTP.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.0 -
Devo Max is something which we can (largely) all agree on in the abstract is a good idea but actually probably wouldn't move the dial either which way if it actually happened.Carnyx said:
Quite so. I wasn't too clear admittedly. I was thinking specifically about the context of the runup to the referendum and the lack of a max devo option in the referendum which Mr Cameron ruled out, I think, about a year before the vote. As I recall, he was decoyed into it by Mr Salmond. This was despite polling showing it would be the runaway winner in the context of the time. (And I should have added fiscal policy/the £ to defence and foreign policy BTW). That really would have secured the Union for some years. (How many years is a good question in view of what has happened since with Brexit, so perhaps it wouldn't have made that much difference on reflection. But it looked like that at the time, I can assure you.)Casino_Royale said:
I must say, I'm increasingly unconvinced by this argument. No matter how many powers Westminster devolves to Holyrood support for independence remains very high and the demands keep coming.Carnyx said:
Oh, he messed up the Scottish referendum with his lies - stay in the UK to remain in the EU - and his actions the morning after were all about kicking the Scots in the teeth with the EVEL business and saying they were second class within the UK. Plenty of unfinished business there ...SouthamObserver said:Catching up on Cameron in The Times. It’s tragic. He had no idea of the country he led. And he knows he will be remembered for just one thing. His only consolation is that he did not, quite, mess up the Scottish independence referendum. One day we may get passed Brexit, but the break-up of the UK would have been forever. That will be Johnson’s legacy instead.
He also made a major strategic error earlier in refusing full devolution other than defence and foreign affairs, which would have defeated the status quo but also independence hands down.
Many nationalist voters want independence precisely so they can control foreign affairs and defence policy.
But Mr Cameron's destroying the middle ground like that was a major contribution to the jump in the independence vote from about 22-25% at the Edinburgh Agreement to about 52% at the time of the great panic and the Vow by Mr Cameron et aliis.
The failure to offer such a positive option nearly lost Scotland in 2014, and it was only saved at the price of some serious breaches of good faith.
That reflects, arguably, on Mr Cameron's strategic thinking ...
I expect a constitutional convention leading to so co-federal decision making powers (weighted) across Westminster, Holyrood, Stormont and Cardiff Bay on foreign and trade policy matters might provide a better answer.0 -
It's important to weight up that some people will be unhappy about this.Foxy said:
Nah, having Revoked, next law is electoral reform, and the end of FPTP.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.
On the one hand, revoke and then PR would make me very happy, so that's a reason to do the above.
On the other hand, it would make some Conservatives extremely unhappy. So that's also a reason to do it.0 -
But by this short sighted desire for headlines they could actually ‘sink’ the whole operationTheuniondivvie said:
Aka 'cockroaches', ™Katie Hopkins.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The Daily Mail know that nothing makes their readership angry quite like the thought of their money helping to stop brown kids from drowning.nichomar said:Just been out with a group of pensioners who are going to cancel their donations to RNLI because of the daily mail article. Well done daily mail you really should have thought it through before putting the whole operation at risk. Don’t know if the RNLI were wrong to spend 2% overseas but it’s going to hit their financial viability.
0 -
lol!! Well you could have knocked me down with a feather!HYUFD said:
This policy will split the Remainer vote though, revoke with the LDs for die hard Remainers is a better option than referendum on a Labour Brexit with Corbyn.Byronic said:
On reflection, I think it is a stupid pledge, and will do them harm.dyedwoolie said:
As ever the LDs are in a position to promise a whole sky full of moons without having to deliver.Yellow_Submarine said:Now that the party conference has formally endorsed this my advice to the Liberal Democrats would be double or quits. A " revoke bonus " should do the trick. A one off spending pledge to be in councils/charities/community groups by the first anniversary of revocation. To be funded from the ' savings ' of cancelling Brexit. If the figure is only half as dishonest as the £350m pw it will look highly credible. There are enough strong correalates of the Leave vote to weight it by Leave vote without weighting it by Leave vote.
If Swinson believed she could be PM that revoke pledge would never have been made.
They have completely misread the public mood. Remainers aren't coming to them for ultra-Remain policies, they are coming to them because the Lib Dems are (or were) honest but fair Remainers, who have stood by their principles.
Now the Lib Dems have an insane and extremist policy, they are as bad as the No Deal Ultras. And how can they say the name Liberal "Democrats" ever again, without getting a load of abuse?
Tut tut tut.
While the Leaver vote was split between Deal with May or No Deal with the Brexit Party, Boris has largely united it behind the Tories on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform.
So the main winner today under FPTP is Boris0 -
He had a good precedent from the rejections of previous EU treaties from other member states.FrankBooth said:
One of the things that most angered me about Boris Johnson was when he claimed we should vote leave to get the EU to offer us a much better deal. It was as if the entire political class had no idea what they were dealing with. Referendums are not half-hearted matters and parliament's integrity was already fraying. It was an unbelievably reckless thing to say.Casino_Royale said:
I made that precise argument on here in the weeks leading up to the vote. That that is exactly what the British electorate were intending to achieve.AndyJS said:There's an argument that the best result would have been Remain 50.1%, Leave 49.9% because then the EU may have had to realise how serious things were getting, not just with regard to the UK but also with other countries like Italy, Hungary, Greece, etc.
And I was complemented on it by....SeanT.0 -
IF the LibDems got a majority I hope they would implement PR asap for three reasons:kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.
1. It is the right thing to do.
2. It has been LibDem policy forever and it would be extremely hypocritical to change it for party advantage.
3. Most important. It would remove the possibility of a government with 35% support implementing policy that is opposed by 65% - including a Faragist party crashing us out of the EU. That would need at least 50% support in a PR parliament.
In the meantime, the LibDems will play by the current FPTP rules including implementing policy on a majority obtained with a 35% vote share. That's what the other players do.
EDIT Snaps 9:13 9:16 9:211 -
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Thank you...Benpointer said:Late, I know, but enjoyable header, thanks @viewcode and well done!
0 -
Out of interest, what were the odds of Macron becoming French president a year before he won the French election?0
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At last, we're being honest.Barnesian said:
3. Most important. It would remove the possibility of a government with 35% support implementing policy that is opposed by 65% - including a Faragist party crashing us out of the EU. That would need at least 50% support in a PR parliament.
Let's abuse the system to make sure leavers never get anywhere near power.
Let's overturn the result of a referendum in which over 50% of people voted to leave, using a mandate taken from just 35% of the population, then let's change the law to prevent anyone from ever doing the same thing again.
Remainer "democracy" in action.
0 -
Great (as in awful) photo of Boris.Scott_P said:
0 -
Do you think they give a shit? They want the headlines and to spread a bit more of their hate.nichomar said:
But by this short sighted desire for headlines they could actually ‘sink’ the whole operationTheuniondivvie said:
Aka 'cockroaches', ™Katie Hopkins.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The Daily Mail know that nothing makes their readership angry quite like the thought of their money helping to stop brown kids from drowning.nichomar said:Just been out with a group of pensioners who are going to cancel their donations to RNLI because of the daily mail article. Well done daily mail you really should have thought it through before putting the whole operation at risk. Don’t know if the RNLI were wrong to spend 2% overseas but it’s going to hit their financial viability.
0 -
Great minds!Barnesian said:
IF the LibDems got a majority I hope they would implement PR asap for three reasons:kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.
1. It is the right thing to do.
2. It has been LibDem policy forever and it would be extremely hypocritical to change it for party advantage.
3. Most important. It would remove the possibility of a government with 35% support implementing policy that is opposed by 65% - including a Faragist party crashing us out of the EU. That would need at least 50% support in a PR parliament.
In the meantime, the LibDems will play by the current FPTP rules including implementing policy on a majority obtained with a 35% vote share. That's what the other players do.
EDIT Snaps 9:13 9:16 9:210 -
To be honest, they're both dickheads and their rhetoric is as silly as the others.Benpointer said:
It takes one to know one.0 -
FTFYkyf_100 said:
At last, we're being honest.Barnesian said:
3. Most important. It would remove the possibility of a government with 35% support implementing policy that is opposed by 65% - including a Faragist party crashing us out of the EU. That would need at least 50% support in a PR parliament.
Let's abuse the system to make sure leavers never get anywhere near power.
Let's overturn the result of a referendum in which over 50% 37.5% of people voted to leave, using a mandate taken from just 35% of the population, then let's change the law to prevent anyone from ever doing the same thing again.
Remainer "democracy" in action.0 -
You seriously think this is because they haven't "thought it through"? It's an entirely calculated decisionnichomar said:
But by this short sighted desire for headlines they could actually ‘sink’ the whole operationTheuniondivvie said:
Aka 'cockroaches', ™Katie Hopkins.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The Daily Mail know that nothing makes their readership angry quite like the thought of their money helping to stop brown kids from drowning.nichomar said:Just been out with a group of pensioners who are going to cancel their donations to RNLI because of the daily mail article. Well done daily mail you really should have thought it through before putting the whole operation at risk. Don’t know if the RNLI were wrong to spend 2% overseas but it’s going to hit their financial viability.
0 -
Neatly ignoring the fact that Con+UKIP was 49.4% in 2015 and Con+BXP is still polling around the 50% mark. An amount I presume would be higher if the establishment stitch up you propose was allowed to happen.Foxy said:
Nah, having Revoked, next law is electoral reform, and the end of FPTP.kyf_100 said:
Until the Brexit Party wins a majority next time around...Noo said:
The irony of the Lib Dems winning a majority on 35% and then implementing a program of government that isn't liked by a good proportion of the country would not be an irony. It would be a rich, fruity layer cake of irony, with irony icing, served with the most iron-y cutlery, washed down the finest glass of Chateau de Leave d'Tears.kyf_100 said:
The mandate is questionable. Does the lib dems managing to form a government on 30-ish% of the vote abnd revoke morally overrule a referendum where over 50% of people voted to leave?
All those years the Tories have benefited from FPTP, and all this time people like me have been campaigning for PR, it would be the most exquisite of pleasures to see this happen.
0 -
I do hope Guy Verhofstad extends his stay, and continues to offer more humorous barbs on a frequent basis. Any photographs of him and Jo Swinson having a good chuckle about Britain's many inadequacies would be particularly good.Benpointer said:1 -
"It takes one to know one" is a ludicrously infantile expression and plainly not true (can only a criminal spot a criminal, a liar spot a liar or a dickhead spot a dickhead?)Casino_Royale said:
To be honest, they're both dickheads and their rhetoric is as silly as the others.Benpointer said:
It takes one to know one.
Guy Verohofstadt is a towering giant compared with most UK politicians.1
