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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Bad Boys Of Brexit. A review

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  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    OK Joffra, when I said "behead them" it was hyperbole. HYPERBOLE
  • Byronic said:

    Mr. Divvie, the RNLI's recently lost some public support due to tossing overboard long-serving crew for seemingly trivial reasons (obnoxious mugs and the like).

    The RNLI story doesn't reflect very well on them. Sacking staff in the UK because cutbacks, paying its COE nearly £200,000 a year.... and meanwhile they spend millions on burkinis for Muslim women in Zanzibar.

    And the cutbacks in the UK are nasty.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/perfect-storm-of-rnli-job-cuts-2wbnk6qvk

    Hmm.
    The culture wars go seaborne. It was only a matter of time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    Mr. Divvie, the RNLI's recently lost some public support due to tossing overboard long-serving crew for seemingly trivial reasons (obnoxious mugs and the like).

    The RNLI story doesn't reflect very well on them. Sacking staff in the UK because cutbacks, paying its COE nearly £200,000 a year.... and meanwhile they spend millions on burkinis for Muslim women in Zanzibar.

    And the cutbacks in the UK are nasty.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/perfect-storm-of-rnli-job-cuts-2wbnk6qvk

    Hmm.
    Funding creches overseas is an even weirder use of money. They argue cos kids could drown otherwise. With that logic you could literally fund anything.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    This policy will split the Remainer vote though, revoke with the LDs for die hard Remainers is a better option than referendum on a Labour Brexit with Corbyn.

    While the Leaver vote was split between Deal with May or No Deal with the Brexit Party, Boris has largely united it behind the Tories on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform.

    So the main winner today under FPTP is Boris

    While I'm tempted to say "you would day that, wouldn't you?" I'd note the 14% swing from Con to LD in the latest ComRes but I'm sure you'll quote Opinium back at me so fine.

    The policy is to Revoke if the Party wins a Parliamentary majority otherwise it's to support a second vote and continue to block a No Deal which is completely consistent. Why wouldn't those wishing to Remain (more than 10% I suspect) have a clear and unambiguous voice?

    The Conservatives are currently riding both the horses of No Deal AND leaving with a Deal but the time is fast approaching when they will be forced to decide which horse they are really on. With No Deal blocked, the options then become leaving with a WA (really?) or storming off in a huff with the traditional Conservative attitude of evading responsibility and leaving the tough decisions to others.
    Of course more than 10% want to Remain. It's nearer 50% than 10%.

    But how many want to simply Revoke, and sod democracy? 10%? 15%? And how many will be comfortable with a party that espouses the cancellation of votes?

    It's a deeply stupid policy.

    I can’t see it costing them any votes. People opposing No Deal will still vote LibDem if they think it will help beat a Tory. Elsewhere it doesn’t matter.

    it might not cost them votes they've already banked. It will definitely stop some wavering softy Remainers from moving to them, from Labour or the Tories.

    Lots of Remainers are dismayed by the idea of simply ignoring and nullifying the referendum. Rightly so.

    Maybe. But my guess is that No Deal is currently a more active worry than the LDs winning a majority and revoking.
  • The UK’s route back to sanity only begins when Corbyn has gone. His total toxicity distorts the entire political landscape. It forces people into choices they do not want to make and gives the Tories free rein to do as they wish.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    If the Lib Dem revoke turns out popular what on earth do Labour do ?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    The UK’s route back to sanity only begins when Corbyn has gone. His total toxicity distorts the entire political landscape. It forces people into choices they do not want to make and gives the Tories free rein to do as they wish.

    Corbyn is like a massive Black Hole of unelectability, sucking in all energy from the surrounding Labour galaxy, and destroying any votes that get near
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
  • Oh, I meant to say thanks to Viewcode for an entertaining piece. The list of excellent header-writers grows.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    Oh, I meant to say thanks to Viewcode for an entertaining piece. The list of excellent header-writers grows.

    Thank you. High praise indeed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
    While I agree with you about spending money overseas - I can't understand why anyone would think lifesaving is a local matter - isn't the context that they are shedding jobs due to a deficit?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
    No they don't have that much money. They lost £6m last year, they're laying off 100 UK staff, they're spending £2m on burkinis in Zanzibar

    It's not a PR triumph, whatever the rights and wrongs.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I think the new LD policy is probably a mistake. It could cost them more votes than it gains. Simon Hughes urged conference not to support it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    HYUFD said:


    Swinson will be thinking anything that can shift diehard Remainers away from Corbyn Labour towards her party must be worth the risk

    ....as Boris cheers from the sidelines.....
  • ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
    While I agree with you about spending money overseas - I can't understand why anyone would think lifesaving is a local matter - isn't the context that they are shedding jobs due to a deficit?
    They are losing £6 million a year and long term legacy donations have been drying up.
  • Archer 95.6 MPH. I reckon that’s the fastest ball I’ve ever seen an England bowler bowl. I doubt many have ever bowled as fast.
  • The UK’s route back to sanity only begins when Corbyn has gone. His total toxicity distorts the entire political landscape. It forces people into choices they do not want to make and gives the Tories free rein to do as they wish.

    Boris's too, perhaps? There is already polling evidence Boris is regarded unfavourably by women, something that might become even more important following last week's statistics about falling conviction rates for rape. As I've suggested before, the Conservatives may have made an awful mistake in electing their own version of Corbyn.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited September 2019

    Archer 95.6 MPH. I reckon that’s the fastest ball I’ve ever seen an England bowler bowl. I doubt many have ever bowled as fast.

    Imagine if he really tried, rather than the amble in off the short run up ;-)

    I think Tymal Mills was up at that sort of speed before his back went...and wasn't Finn sending them down about that before the English management decided that they needed to remodel his action.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Archer 95.6 MPH. I reckon that’s the fastest ball I’ve ever seen an England bowler bowl. I doubt many have ever bowled as fast.

    He's on fire again. Wicked bowlin'
  • Mr. JS, my thoughts exactly. Very pro-EU types can't vote twice, and were onboard anyway. Softer pro-EU types might prefer the obvious position Labour can now take, which is You Decide - a second referendum.

    The Lib Dems have needlessly thrown away half the ground of being the pro-EU party, for no advantage. It's strategically stupid, and obviously so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
    While I agree with you about spending money overseas - I can't understand why anyone would think lifesaving is a local matter - isn't the context that they are shedding jobs due to a deficit?
    Exactly , how can they be awash with cash when they are making major redundancies in the UK.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited September 2019

    Mr. JS, my thoughts exactly. Very pro-EU types can't vote twice, and were onboard anyway. Softer pro-EU types might prefer the obvious position Labour can now take, which is You Decide - a second referendum.

    The Lib Dems have needlessly thrown away half the ground of being the pro-EU party, for no advantage. It's strategically stupid, and obviously so.

    That is what happens when you appoint a stupid naive leader. Especially one that thinks they are clever.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited September 2019

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
    While I agree with you about spending money overseas - I can't understand why anyone would think lifesaving is a local matter - isn't the context that they are shedding jobs due to a deficit?
    They are losing £6 million a year and long term legacy donations have been drying up.
    Mrs Thatcher was said to be surprised and disappointed that the British millionaires she'd set free did not adopt American levels of philanthropy. Older pb-ers (which I fear is most of us!) will remember Mrs Thatcher giving the example of the Good Samaritan only being in a position to help because he had money, but she expected the corollary to be true as well, that those with wealth would help, would be the Good Samaritans.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Cameron’s bookcase is pretty standard stuff for, let’s call it a “Sunday Times” demographic.

    Yep there’s a few political books in there - including the Obama bio - but they’re hard to find among the Philippa Gregory, Ian Fleming, and Sam Cam’s art books.

    https://twitter.com/anitathetweeter/status/1172993181404844032?s=21

    It is a good spot but who is Sam Cam's mate? Is she the SpAd (or PA really) who got an OBE, or someone else?
    I'm not a Cameron-hater by any means but he's a bit too slick for me. The girl behind his wife looks like a pretentious dick.
  • AndyJS said:

    There's an argument that the best result would have been Remain 50.1%, Leave 49.9% because then the EU may have had to realise how serious things were getting, not just with regard to the UK but also with other countries like Italy, Hungary, Greece, etc.

    Don't be silly. They would have declared the right side of the argument won and what we need is more EU. That's what they said in the the BBC documentary about how they thought the UK's vote would change the EU vision of things to come e.g regards improving the situation in Italy.
    Yep. This is the hypocrisy of the Remainers. If they had won they would not have dreamed of any sort of compromise. It would have been 'settled for good' and every further move towards more Europe would have been greeted with the claim that we voted for it and should just shut up and accept it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
    While I agree with you about spending money overseas - I can't understand why anyone would think lifesaving is a local matter - isn't the context that they are shedding jobs due to a deficit?
    Exactly , how can they be awash with cash when they are making major redundancies in the UK.
    OTOH arguably they are taking the right approach by cutting back on office staff rather than people who are actually saving lives.

    It can be counterproductive though. One reason the University of Wales Lampeter got into trouble was because in an effort to deal with a troublesome deficit it axed Human Resources and managed all staff directly through the VC's office. It's not hard to see how they could have ended badly even had Robert Pearce not been a Tristram Hunt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    Archer 95.6 MPH. I reckon that’s the fastest ball I’ve ever seen an England bowler bowl. I doubt many have ever bowled as fast.

    He's on fire again. Wicked bowlin'
    I don't want wicked bowling, I only want wicket bowling.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    This policy will split the Remainer vote though, revoke with the LDs for die hard Remainers is a better option than referendum on a Labour Brexit with Corbyn.

    While the Leaver vote was split between Deal with May or No Deal with the Brexit Party, Boris has largely united it behind the Tories on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal platform.

    So the main winner today under FPTP is Boris

    While I'm tempted to say "you would day that, wouldn't you?" I'd note the 14% swing from Con to LD in the latest ComRes but I'm sure you'll quote Opinium back at me so fine.

    The policy is to Revoke if the Party wins a Parliamentary majority otherwise it's to support a second vote and continue to block a No Deal which is completely consistent. Why wouldn't those wishing to Remain (more than 10% I suspect) have a clear and unambiguous voice?

    The Conservatives are currently riding both the horses of No Deal AND leaving with a Deal but the time is fast approaching when they will be forced to decide which horse they are really on. With No Deal blocked, the options then become leaving with a WA (really?) or storming off in a huff with the traditional Conservative attitude of evading responsibility and leaving the tough decisions to others.
    Of course more than 10% want to Remain. It's nearer 50% than 10%.

    But how many want to simply Revoke, and sod democracy? 10%? 15%? And how many will be comfortable with a party that espouses the cancellation of votes?

    It's a deeply stupid policy.
    About 27% want to revoke with Opinium, that could not win the LDs a majority but it could see them beat Corbyn Labour in voteshare which is Swinson's main aim this time I think
    I am surprised it is as high as 27%. But fair enough: that's the data. Maybe the LD move is cynical but clever? I still think it is cynical and foolish.
    In what way cynical ?
    They campaigned against leaving; they voted against A50. It might be unpopular with some, but it’s entirely consistent with their position since pretty well forever.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    HYUFD said:


    Swinson will be thinking anything that can shift diehard Remainers away from Corbyn Labour towards her party must be worth the risk

    ....as Boris cheers from the sidelines.....
    Adonis called Swinson's move bad politics but that comment just underscores how worried he is.

    Adonis is a Labour tribalist, and he knows that Boris has stuck a stake in the ground and Swinson has now done the same.

    Meanwhile, it is difficult to know where Labour stand on Brexit.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The gammonati now going after the RNLI. Good move, chaps.

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1173231480421662722?s=20

    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.
    While I agree with you about spending money overseas - I can't understand why anyone would think lifesaving is a local matter - isn't the context that they are shedding jobs due to a deficit?
    Exactly , how can they be awash with cash when they are making major redundancies in the UK.
    OTOH arguably they are taking the right approach by cutting back on office staff rather than people who are actually saving lives.

    It can be counterproductive though. One reason the University of Wales Lampeter got into trouble was because in an effort to deal with a troublesome deficit it axed Human Resources and managed all staff directly through the VC's office. It's not hard to see how they could have ended badly even had Robert Pearce not been a Tristram Hunt.
    I don't give to any of these big charities any more, money is just wasted most of the time, they pay huge salaries to lots of duffers and miss the point of their being. I give to a local hospice instead where you at least know some good is being done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Archer 95.6 MPH. I reckon that’s the fastest ball I’ve ever seen an England bowler bowl. I doubt many have ever bowled as fast.

    He's on fire again. Wicked bowlin'
    I don't want wicked bowling, I only want wicket bowling.
    Best batting we’ve seen from Wade this series.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    Ishmael_Z said:



    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.

    In my animal welfare sector, I've always been impressed by the success of some of the charities who *only* do work overseas (on the basis that animals in places like Greece and Egypt tend to need help more). I'd have thought it would be anathema to supporters, but not so - people get the point that a Greek cat or an Egyptian donkey isn't actually any less feeling than a British animal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Archer 95.6 MPH. I reckon that’s the fastest ball I’ve ever seen an England bowler bowl. I doubt many have ever bowled as fast.

    He's on fire again. Wicked bowlin'
    I don't want wicked bowling, I only want wicket bowling.
    Best batting we’ve seen from Wade this series.
    At this rate the only way he'll be out this evening is if he announces he's gay.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    kle4 said:

    Thanks for the review Viewcode - sounds a lot more entertaining than I expected......meanwhile the David Cameron five minutes of hate continues unabated:

    https://twitter.com/dez_holmes/status/1173202880221843456?s=21

    Fear campaigns work more often than not of course.
    But not without cost. We've been running them for decades and now people don't like any politicians.
    Hope and change also can make for a successful campaign. Reagan, Obama and perhaps even Trump to an extent in the USA. Both Blair and Cameron at their first election too.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited September 2019
    Australia are 150/1 for the win....

    EDIT: that's what it says on Oddschecker but I can't find it offered anywhere

    It is absurdly generous, if it exists.
  • At what number of runs to go should we get worried that the convicts might have a chance?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Thanks for the review Viewcode - sounds a lot more entertaining than I expected......meanwhile the David Cameron five minutes of hate continues unabated:

    https://twitter.com/dez_holmes/status/1173202880221843456?s=21

    Fear campaigns work more often than not of course.
    But not without cost. We've been running them for decades and now people don't like any politicians.
    Hope and change also can make for a successful campaign. Reagan, Obama and perhaps even Trump to an extent in the USA. Both Blair and Cameron at their first election too.
    Corbyn last time.....I think he picked up a fair share of votes because he was proposing some sort of positive vision (however bullshitty it was), compared to Dr Doom and her Brexit means Brexit, we will nick your house if you go mad and you can't vote for Jezza cos he is a commie terrorist lover.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Fenster said:

    HYUFD said:


    Swinson will be thinking anything that can shift diehard Remainers away from Corbyn Labour towards her party must be worth the risk

    ....as Boris cheers from the sidelines.....
    Adonis called Swinson's move bad politics but that comment just underscores how worried he is.

    Adonis is a Labour tribalist, and he knows that Boris has stuck a stake in the ground and Swinson has now done the same.

    Meanwhile, it is difficult to know where Labour stand on Brexit.

    Surely he was formerly a LibDem!
  • Mr. Byronic, where?

    Betfair has them 15.5
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    At what number of runs to go should we get worried that the convicts might have a chance?

    I was worried at 399.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Mr. Byronic, where?

    Betfair has them 15.5

    I know. It says that on Oddschecker, but if you click through Australia are between 10/1 and 20/1

    Which makes much more sense.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    justin124 said:

    Fenster said:

    HYUFD said:


    Swinson will be thinking anything that can shift diehard Remainers away from Corbyn Labour towards her party must be worth the risk

    ....as Boris cheers from the sidelines.....
    Adonis called Swinson's move bad politics but that comment just underscores how worried he is.

    Adonis is a Labour tribalist, and he knows that Boris has stuck a stake in the ground and Swinson has now done the same.

    Meanwhile, it is difficult to know where Labour stand on Brexit.

    Surely he was formerly a LibDem!
    I think the key is in that word 'formerly.' You wouldn't take Alun Davies as a sound judge on matters Plaid Cymru, would you? (Or anything else, to be fair.)

    If Adonis thinks it's a bad idea, that reinforces my earlier view that it's smart politics.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Oddschecker has just updated to 20/1

    Hmpft.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited September 2019

    Thanks for the review Viewcode - sounds a lot more entertaining than I expected......meanwhile the David Cameron five minutes of hate continues unabated:

    https://twitter.com/dez_holmes/status/1173202880221843456?s=21

    In All Out War it’s said that Cummings reckoned that remain’s best slogan was “a leap in the dark.” Of course, that would have required discipline and not making up numbers like £4,300 a year worse off.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.


  • The Lib Dems have needlessly thrown away half the ground of being the pro-EU party, for no advantage. It's strategically stupid, and obviously so.

    You may well be correct. The other possibility, though, is that many Remainers only supported a 2nd referendum because it looked the most likely way to achieve the goal of remaining. Now the Lib Dems are offering a different route to the goal which may or may not be easier to achieve - this might be very attractive. I can't guess which way it will play though - I don't even know which way I would have voted had I been at conference, to be totally honest with you, as I'd love to see Brexit revoked but I have concerns about the policy which are not directly related to the issue that it's trying to solve.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:



    He dislikes hard graft, so instead of going out of politics he has stuck around, changed parties despite ridicule, and will be fighting a far from easy seat at the next election?

    Overall I think CHUK has been a huge success by a certain set of meteics. It hardened up Labour's anti Brexit line at a time where it seemed like Corbyn was going to drop the referendum option entirely, shifted the Lib Dems to full on revoke and showed Remain inclined Tories that they could switch party (even if not necessarily to Change UK).
  • It is very comforting that, no matter what, the Lib Dems always overplay their hand.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508
    Amazing what Europeans can do when they come together. Amazing finish at Gleneagles
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    ydoethur said:

    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.

    14 minutes for you to make the breakthrough! Well bowled, sir!
  • Mr. Fennel, that's possible.

    If Labour look like the diet pepsi of both Leave and Remain, the wishy-washy don't-knows on the defining matter of the age, they could be screwed.

    My suspicion is they'll look more reasonable and less dogmatic than either the Conservatives or the Lib Dems. Their downside remains (ahem) their woeful far left front bench.

    I think the Lib Dems, like the Athenians during the Peloponnesian War, have managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Moving from referendum to revoke (which they're very unlikely to actually be able to implement anyway) might be their Sicilian expedition.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    ydoethur said:

    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.

    Well, I'll take it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733



    The Lib Dems have needlessly thrown away half the ground of being the pro-EU party, for no advantage. It's strategically stupid, and obviously so.

    You may well be correct. The other possibility, though, is that many Remainers only supported a 2nd referendum because it looked the most likely way to achieve the goal of remaining. Now the Lib Dems are offering a different route to the goal which may or may not be easier to achieve - this might be very attractive. I can't guess which way it will play though - I don't even know which way I would have voted had I been at conference, to be totally honest with you, as I'd love to see Brexit revoked but I have concerns about the policy which are not directly related to the issue that it's trying to solve.
    The other thing is that the Remain subsection of the "Bored of Brexit" vote, like most others in the country do not relish a further conflict and lies ridden second referendum. I think the Revoke petition was driven by this vote.

    i think it highly unlikely that there is an LD majority government with PM swinson, so the policy is more a stall being set out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    tlg86 said:

    Thanks for the review Viewcode - sounds a lot more entertaining than I expected......meanwhile the David Cameron five minutes of hate continues unabated:

    https://twitter.com/dez_holmes/status/1173202880221843456?s=21

    In All Out War it’s said that Cummings reckoned that remain’s best slogan was “a leap in the dark.” Of course, that would have required discipline and not making up numbers like £4,300 a year worse off.

    Dunno, the £350 million a week worked OK for him. And that was a flat-out, demonstrable and proven lie rather than a just a rather foolish guess.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893

    Ishmael_Z said:



    The RNLI have more money than they know what to do with, so absolutely excellent that they spend some of it overseas.

    To see the gammonati really explode, suggest that they run safety patrols off Libya.

    In my animal welfare sector, I've always been impressed by the success of some of the charities who *only* do work overseas (on the basis that animals in places like Greece and Egypt tend to need help more). I'd have thought it would be anathema to supporters, but not so - people get the point that a Greek cat or an Egyptian donkey isn't actually any less feeling than a British animal.
    It's a bit odd anyway given that the RNLI have been working outwith the UK for decades - almost a century now I assume: they were active in Ireland and continued to be so after 1922.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Blast it, even when he's out he still isn't.

    What can we do to get rid off Wade? Are we sure he's not Steve Smith in a face mask?
  • Foxy said:



    The Lib Dems have needlessly thrown away half the ground of being the pro-EU party, for no advantage. It's strategically stupid, and obviously so.

    You may well be correct. The other possibility, though, is that many Remainers only supported a 2nd referendum because it looked the most likely way to achieve the goal of remaining. Now the Lib Dems are offering a different route to the goal which may or may not be easier to achieve - this might be very attractive. I can't guess which way it will play though - I don't even know which way I would have voted had I been at conference, to be totally honest with you, as I'd love to see Brexit revoked but I have concerns about the policy which are not directly related to the issue that it's trying to solve.
    The other thing is that the Remain subsection of the "Bored of Brexit" vote, like most others in the country do not relish a further conflict and lies ridden second referendum. I think the Revoke petition was driven by this vote.

    i think it highly unlikely that there is an LD majority government with PM swinson, so the policy is more a stall being set out.
    Oh yes, the petition - I'd nearly forgotten about that. I guess the LibDems are banking on everyone who signed the Revoke petition will now be queueing up to vote for them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Foxy said:



    The Lib Dems have needlessly thrown away half the ground of being the pro-EU party, for no advantage. It's strategically stupid, and obviously so.

    You may well be correct. The other possibility, though, is that many Remainers only supported a 2nd referendum because it looked the most likely way to achieve the goal of remaining. Now the Lib Dems are offering a different route to the goal which may or may not be easier to achieve - this might be very attractive. I can't guess which way it will play though - I don't even know which way I would have voted had I been at conference, to be totally honest with you, as I'd love to see Brexit revoked but I have concerns about the policy which are not directly related to the issue that it's trying to solve.
    The other thing is that the Remain subsection of the "Bored of Brexit" vote, like most others in the country do not relish a further conflict and lies ridden second referendum. I think the Revoke petition was driven by this vote.

    i think it highly unlikely that there is an LD majority government with PM swinson, so the policy is more a stall being set out.
    Oh yes, the petition - I'd nearly forgotten about that. I guess the LibDems are banking on everyone who signed the Revoke petition will now be queueing up to vote for them.
    Given the paucity of alternatives that may not be a silly idea.
  • ydoethur said:

    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.

    still got it.

    can you predict watford won't overturn arsenals lead next please?
  • ydoethur said:

    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.

    still got it.

    can you predict watford won't overturn arsenals lead next please?
    Hey, I cannot access the PB fantasy football league, do you know what place I'm in, and where are you?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Why is everyone so surprised? The Lib Dems have literally nothing to lose.
  • Foxy said:



    The Lib Dems have needlessly thrown away half the ground of being the pro-EU party, for no advantage. It's strategically stupid, and obviously so.

    You may well be correct. The other possibility, though, is that many Remainers only supported a 2nd referendum because it looked the most likely way to achieve the goal of remaining. Now the Lib Dems are offering a different route to the goal which may or may not be easier to achieve - this might be very attractive. I can't guess which way it will play though - I don't even know which way I would have voted had I been at conference, to be totally honest with you, as I'd love to see Brexit revoked but I have concerns about the policy which are not directly related to the issue that it's trying to solve.
    The other thing is that the Remain subsection of the "Bored of Brexit" vote, like most others in the country do not relish a further conflict and lies ridden second referendum. I think the Revoke petition was driven by this vote.

    i think it highly unlikely that there is an LD majority government with PM swinson, so the policy is more a stall being set out.
    Oh yes, the petition - I'd nearly forgotten about that. I guess the LibDems are banking on everyone who signed the Revoke petition will now be queueing up to vote for them.
    Three times as many people signed the revoke petition as voted Lib Dem in 2017. They’ll also reasonably hope to scoop up other Remainers who don’t like direct revoking but still prefer the Lib Dem’s policy over that of other parties. I expect the policy will prove very fruitful for them.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    One reason for this change of policy by the Lib Dems.

    At a GE it might have been a case of Labour clawing back some of those Labour voters who went to the Lib Dems .

    Perhaps that pushed them into this change.

    Still though it’s risky . The Lib Dem message could have still been you can’t trust Corbyn on Brexit .

    Any way we won’t know till we get some more polling .
  • Boris Johnson gets pwnd by The Incredible Hulk.

    https://twitter.com/MarkRuffalo/status/1173273612075376641
  • ydoethur said:

    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.

    still got it.

    can you predict watford won't overturn arsenals lead next please?
    Hey, I cannot access the PB fantasy football league, do you know what place I'm in, and where are you?
    has it started already?

    I've not taken my tracky off yet until the cricket season ends... :)
  • Only 150 needed now...i am getting worried!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.

    still got it.

    can you predict watford won't overturn arsenals lead next please?
    Watford overturn Arsenal's lead? You've got to be aving a giraffe. They wouldn't do that even if all of Arsenal's players were turned to stone by a passing witch!

    (Will that do?)
  • Only 150 needed now...i am getting worried!

    *Checks notes*

    We'll always have Headingley and the fact we're World Champions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Only 150 needed now...i am getting worried!

    Wade still there looking as immovable as Geoffrey Boycott.
  • Mr. Eagles, some feminists, like Harman, have very selective memories.

    There was some wibbling about female protagonists in sci-fi a coyple of years ago with the STD series (I think), as if a glass ceiling had been broken. Which it had. If you ignored the Alien franchise, Star Trek: Voyager, Continuum, the first (and arguably the second/third) Terminator films, and that the most appearances in the Stargate franchise are by Amanda Tapping.

    It's weird.

    Yvette Cooper was tweeting something about female leaders recently. She managed to remember Elizabeth I, Boudicca, and Benzair Bhutto[sp], but accidentally forgot Thatcher.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Very entertaining header! Thank you @viewcode
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Gabs2 said:

    Thanks for the review Viewcode - sounds a lot more entertaining than I expected......meanwhile the David Cameron five minutes of hate continues unabated:

    https://twitter.com/dez_holmes/status/1173202880221843456?s=21

    The problem with "leading not leaving" the EU had been there aren't any compelling examples of the UK doing it. PMs for decades have failed to break the French-German axis at the core of it, which means we were always left to agree or diagree after they had made a decision.

    When we rejoin it is critical we insist on having British-German meetings ahead of each European summit, just like the French-German ones.
    I think the issue is that we remember our failures, and forget our successes.

    The EU's restrictions on state aid, that are such an anathema to Jeremy Corbyn, were an Anglo-Dutch initiative, which co-opted the Germans, and infuriated the French and the Italians. It was a UK policy success.

    But we don't see it, because nothing changed for the UK. What changed was what everyone else did.

    Likewise, financial services regulation across the EU is almost entirely a British creation. The "passport" inevitably results in the lowest touch regulator ending up in charge, as everyone chooses to domicile there.

    Again, it was a success for the UK. But we don't see it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893

    Mr. Eagles, some feminists, like Harman, have very selective memories.

    There was some wibbling about female protagonists in sci-fi a coyple of years ago with the STD series (I think), as if a glass ceiling had been broken. Which it had. If you ignored the Alien franchise, Star Trek: Voyager, Continuum, the first (and arguably the second/third) Terminator films, and that the most appearances in the Stargate franchise are by Amanda Tapping.

    It's weird.

    Yvette Cooper was tweeting something about female leaders recently. She managed to remember Elizabeth I, Boudicca, and Benzair Bhutto[sp], but accidentally forgot Thatcher.

    And some of Iain M. Banks' novels too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Cyclefree said:

    Very entertaining header! Thank you @viewcode

    Thank you, @Cyclefree. You're welcome.
  • Mr. 1000, is that not at least partly down to the political class using the EU as a convenient scapegoat, whilst being sceptical in opposition and pro-EU in office?
  • If wade was any further down the pitch on that delivery he would have passed root.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    ydoethur said:

    Only 150 needed now...i am getting worried!

    Wade still there looking as immovable as Geoffrey Boycott.
    Strikes again!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Mr. Eagles, some feminists, like Harman, have very selective memories.

    There was some wibbling about female protagonists in sci-fi a coyple of years ago with the STD series (I think), as if a glass ceiling had been broken. Which it had. If you ignored the Alien franchise, Star Trek: Voyager, Continuum, the first (and arguably the second/third) Terminator films, and that the most appearances in the Stargate franchise are by Amanda Tapping.

    It's weird.

    Yvette Cooper was tweeting something about female leaders recently. She managed to remember Elizabeth I, Boudicca, and Benzair Bhutto[sp], but accidentally forgot Thatcher.

    Did she also forget Indira Gandhi and Golda Meir? They're two others who seem to be overlooked fairly often.

    Sirimavo Bandaranayake - world's first female Prime Minister - and Gro Brundtland also frequently seem to get overlooked as well. The former presumably because she was seen as a substitute for her husband and the latter perhaps because she was Norwegian.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    Only 150 needed now...i am getting worried!

    Wade still there looking as immovable as Geoffrey Boycott.
    Strikes again!
    I am a legend.

    In fairness though that took a few goes!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    I think England have left themselves too much to do to wrap this up tonight.
  • David Luiz with a defensive mistake?

    Colour me shocked.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited September 2019
    It says something about this Australian batting lineup that the highest score is 117 and the next best is 24.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited September 2019

    David Luiz with a defensive mistake?

    Colour me shocked.

    Best bit of business chelsea have done in a long time.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Does the cricket season ever end? And, if so, when?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    I'm claiming that one too.

    But this last pair for Australia are a bit useful, could bat out 50 overs.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    England win. 2-2.
  • ydoethur said:

    It says something about this Australian batting lineup that the highest score is 117 and the next best is 24.

    Yes, Steve Smith has sandpapered over the cracks in the Australian team.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    Cyclefree said:

    Does the cricket season ever end? And, if so, when?

    Excellent timing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Cyclefree said:

    Does the cricket season ever end? And, if so, when?

    I hear they need to run it all again next year for some reason. Same with the football.
  • Mr. Doethur, one of the interesting aspects of the Diadochi era is that there were a number of significant female leaders then, as well as many chaps.

    Of course, almost all of them were just as bad or worse. Roxanne had her fellow widows pre-emptively murdered just in case they happened to be pregnant (they were higher status and their offspring would've taken precedence over hers), and Olympias forced Adea/Eurydice forced to kill herself.
  • Sorry Andy, you're not watching any test cricket tomorrow.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    Does the cricket season ever end? And, if so, when?

    It just did! :tongue:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited September 2019
    It's a bit of a lazy appeal to go down. Harman is very experienced and seems to be pretty respected, so has credentials for the role, why make a pitch that gives the impression we've not had a female Speaker? Or does she think for some reason we should alternate by gender each time we change Speaker?
  • Cyclefree said:

    Does the cricket season ever end? And, if so, when?

    I take it you arent looking forward to the winter tours?
  • I'm 41 and this is the first drawn Ashes series of my lifetime.
  • Mr. kle4, because playing identity cards is so much easier than actually constructing an argument. Plus you get to call everyone who disagrees with you a bigot.
  • ydoethur said:

    I don't see England having another breakthrough this side of the new ball. Wade's looking comfortable and Cummings is setting his stall to die in a ditch.

    So what's your prediction for the next GE, Ydoethur? We need to know.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Does the cricket season ever end? And, if so, when?

    T20 finals day next Saturday, I cannot wait to freeze my [moderated] off next Saturday night.

    I mean it won't be cold at 9pm at the end of September in Birmingham right?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Amazingly, the first drawn Ashes series since 1972.
This discussion has been closed.