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Their target deal will be described in the manifesto if there is a general election and will probably be as below -oxfordsimon said:Not once have I heard a Labour frontbencher outline exactly what their preferred WA/PD would look like. Nor have they explained how they would actually go about negotiating with the EU who have made it perfectly clear that the deal on the table is the deal. There can be some minor tinkering - but the essence of the deal is what we are going to have to accept.
So they are claiming to be able to deliver something that they cannot or will not define via a process that is not open to them.
I am not saying anyone else has a better way forward - but the Labour position is quite simply not coherent. It is a series of political strategies - not a coherent strategy. And it will ever be thus when you have a party leader who is opposed to the EU as a capitalist cabal and a party that largely does not share his views on this.
Withdrawal Agreement as is, plus the Political Declaration amended to set out a Norway+ style Future Relationship, permanent Custom Union, close to full membership of the Single Market.
A 'jobs first' Brexit - a 'soft' Brexit - a traitorous quisling "Brexit in name only" BINO - (delete to taste).
The EU will be happy enough with this.0 -
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:0 -
Bizarrely it would have been better to have lost the case for Bozo .
Because he’s removed the time in which he could continue to pressure the Commons into an earlier election .
His original plan was to suspend the Commons and remove the chance of legislation passing to stop no deal .
The stupid threat to remove the whip from Tory rebels backfired and the legislation is going to pass and all Bozo has done is to reduce the chances of an earlier election.0 -
Doesnt it just mean they know it will be appealed and as it is such a live political issue best to settle all appeals quickly?Nigelb said:
Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?Scott_P said:1 -
Point taken, and I don't think we're basically disagreeing, but to toss the question back at you.......Why didn't May try to convince people, democratically, to take another path?TOPPING said:
Thing is what faith would you have in someone to negotiate a good deal if they didn't want the thing in the first place?Peter_the_Punter said:
In a sense, it's what Mrs May should have done on accession.Scott_P said:
'Look folks, this is dumb, but you voted for it and as your PM I am honour bound to do my best to get the country the best possible deal and one which acknowledges the range of views represented in the Referendum, including the 48% who did not want to leave at all.'
In a way, it's kind of what she tried to do but without putting it like that.
Prima facie it is logical - democratic mandate says we need to do this so we will do our best albeit we disagree with its premise. But it is this last that undoes the whole. If they disagree with its premise why on earth are they working towards it? Why not try to convince people, democratically, to take another path?0 -
Are prawns still shipped to Thailand and back for shelling as it’s cheaper ?Theuniondivvie said:
I see he can't be arsed visiting West Coast prawn, crab and scallop fishermen who bring much more value to the UK economy than the pelagic boys, and for whom transportation is ultra time sensitive. Of course they don't have a few politicised big owners with a megaphone straight to the Tory party's ear.dyedwoolie said:
Hes trying to shore up those NE Scotland seatsScott_P said:https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1169892423712948225
We will still be in the EU
I’d have thought St Greta of Govanhill would have stamped out this disgusting source of unnecessary CO2.0 -
And if there isn't? There perhaps ought to be laws on many things.Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
I’m back home. But only just. My solitary glimpse of QT has been that link to the Thornberry vid, on Guido.eek said:
Are you sad enough to be watching QT while abroad on holiday?Byronic said:
It’s like stand up comedy. Quite good stand up, at that. Why should Brussels give a “better” deal to a government which doesn’t actually want or believe in any deal, and who will then campaign against their “own” deal, anyway? PLEASE GIVE ME A HUNDRED QUID BECAUSE I HATE MONEY AND I WANT TO THROW A HUNDRED QUID IN THE NEAREST CANAL.eek said:
No - they can say it's a good deal (it would clearly be better than May's deal as some red lines would have been removed) but it still removes our ability to have a say in matters that impact us so it is actually better to stay,Byronic said:
It takes maybe 2 seconds for the absurdity to reveal itself.Scott_P said:
“We’re going to march right back to Brussels and this time get a really good deal which we will tell everyone to vote against because it’s a really bad deal, Hahahahahahahauuuurghhhhjjjjb,prf8f36?;^0<<“</p>
It is beyond bizarre.
Thornberry’s humiliation on QT showed how people will react to this stance. I sincerely hope Labour persist with it. They could suffer generational damage.
It is quite strikingly bad. Thornberry is not stupid, she can do better than that. I have a sneaking feeling she hammed it up deliberately, so as to expose the flaws in this position to her own party leadership.
Note how she makes no real attempt to defend herself, or this policy. She’s not generally known for holding back.0 -
Actually I really think he's been practicing Churchillian bulldog scowls in the mirror.CarlottaVance said:
Are we having fun yet?Scott_P said:
Twat.0 -
Unlikely, but if so, then that needs making explicit asap.kle4 said:
And if there isn't? ...Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
So the perfectly normal system of prorogation that normally happens every year and has been legally applied here needs supreme court intervention because people think Boris Johnson might be Loki in disguise?Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
What I want is for those who vote to extend the Brexit deadline to be surcharged a billion a month....TGOHF said:
I hope they are chased for all costs to the taxpayer.AndyJS said:Gina Miller has lost her court case.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/06/boris-johnson-prorogation-of-parliament-is-lawful-high-court-rules1 -
I do think it's quite amusing that one or two are still desperately clinging to the idea that this is all part of some devilishly clever masterplan by Cummings, hitherto undetected by the masses, rather than the reality.
Which is that it's a giant clusterfuck by the No.10 team.0 -
This - without Parliament being Prorogued as soon as Corbyn and co asked for an election Boris could have recalled Parliament and the election kicked off.nico67 said:Bizarrely it would have been better to have lost the case for Bozo .
Because he’s removed the time in which he could continue to pressure the Commons into an earlier election .
His original plan was to suspend the Commons and remove the chance of legislation passing to stop no deal .
The stupid threat to remove the whip from Tory rebels backfired and the legislation is going to pass and all Bozo has done is to reduce the chances of an earlier election.
Now Corbyn only has to wait until a day or 2 after Parliament is prorogued and he can spend 6 weeks asking Boris to recall Parliament so an election could be called.
And you then have the Queens speech where Boris is controlling Parliament but still cannot give Corbyn the formal FTPA election debate until his Queen's speech has been completely trashed.
It really does play badly for him.0 -
But just to humour the most Machiavellian amongst you, and the obsessively paranoid Byronic (welcome back to Camden), can someone answer me this please, pretty, please?
Is it impossible for Johnson to extend the prorogation after it has begun? Could he not just push it back to after 1st Nov? Job done.
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Normal proroguing is a couple of days to a week.dyedwoolie said:
So the perfectly normal system of prorogation that normally happens every year and has been legally applied here needs supreme court intervention because people think Boris Johnson might be Loki in disguise?Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
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Anyone who thinks there was anything good about Mugabe's rule should read these articles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/19/mugabe-zimbabwe-gukurahundi-massacre-matabeleland0 -
I wonder how “higher animal welfare standards” will work with a “US Trade Deal”?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Brave to call the war either way until after the GE I’d say.Mysticrose said:I do think it's quite amusing that one or two are still desperately clinging to the idea that this is all part of some devilishly clever masterplan by Cummings, hitherto undetected by the masses, rather than the reality.
Which is that it's a giant clusterfuck by the No.10 team.0 -
Compare this farewell from Luciana Berger's former constituency party with the either warm words or silence many of the Tory rebels/retirees seem to have had*. This angry tone about everything does as much harm to the Labour cause as any policy, IMO.
(* I appreciate some of them have also had quite a lot of "good riddance" stuff too - but those seem to have come from individuals, often tinged with sadness, rather than corporate hostility)
https://twitter.com/WavertreeCLP/status/11695694718765342720 -
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That is want they want you to think. I am sure Cummings has wargamed this....Mysticrose said:I do think it's quite amusing that one or two are still desperately clinging to the idea that this is all part of some devilishly clever masterplan by Cummings, hitherto undetected by the masses, rather than the reality.
Which is that it's a giant clusterfuck by the No.10 team.
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I'd say hes cemented the idea that MPs of the opposition are trying to stop Brexit. He wont really care when between now and November we vote because he wont be requesting an extension and it's unlikely the EU will offer one if an election hasn't been called.nico67 said:Bizarrely it would have been better to have lost the case for Bozo .
Because he’s removed the time in which he could continue to pressure the Commons into an earlier election .
His original plan was to suspend the Commons and remove the chance of legislation passing to stop no deal .
The stupid threat to remove the whip from Tory rebels backfired and the legislation is going to pass and all Bozo has done is to reduce the chances of an earlier election.1 -
F1: rain clearing, alas.
Shame, if it stopped now, Kvyat would 'win' and Gasly's currently 3rd.0 -
Who can forget the immortal description of Christ, from the Faith section of the Millennium Dome? It’s what you get when you ask a secular atheist to write something that is ‘sensitive’ towards religion belief.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
It read: “Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”1 -
THat's a good way to put it, and especially true re Brexit. I'm at my half century, and a remainer. I've grown up with easy European travel as a norm. I've worked in multinational companies and lived in cities with large numbers of Europeans always present. It's usual for me. I see Brexit as losing something.Nigelb said:
But just what is that "movement towards the right" ?A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
The people who make up the electorate change at about 600k per annum. BUT, does their collective view change ? Yes, but a lot less than that. There is some in built movement towards the right among those IN the electorate but that ebbs and flows.Nigelb said:Thinking around it further, my best guess is these are the more significant:
Some people who said they voted Remain have forgotten that they voted Leave
Some people who voted Leave are harder for pollsters to find
The electorate has changed since 2016
The first two would tend to cancel each other out, I think.
The last is an undeniable fact - do pollsters make no effort to incorporate it in their models, or is it simply too difficult ?
IMO, it's simply that people tend not to change their views much as they age. What was mainstream thirty or forty years ago appears reactionary today.
I don't think there's any evidence at all that people's opinions tend to become more Leave as they age.
I can see the other side of the argument, not least from my parents position, who see the modern world as something very different with what they grew up with.
Similarly those who've grown up in small towns and never left them.0 -
So what do you think are the legal limits on prorogation ?dyedwoolie said:
So the perfectly normal system of prorogation that normally happens every year and has been legally applied here needs supreme court intervention because people think Boris Johnson might be Loki in disguise?Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
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Not when it encompasses conference seasoneek said:
Normal proroguing is a couple of days to a week.dyedwoolie said:
So the perfectly normal system of prorogation that normally happens every year and has been legally applied here needs supreme court intervention because people think Boris Johnson might be Loki in disguise?Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
True. But to keep losing battles is not a great start to winning a war.TGOHF said:
Brave to call the war either way until after the GE I’d say.Mysticrose said:I do think it's quite amusing that one or two are still desperately clinging to the idea that this is all part of some devilishly clever masterplan by Cummings, hitherto undetected by the masses, rather than the reality.
Which is that it's a giant clusterfuck by the No.10 team.
We now have all & sundry saying “We’d go for a GE now if it wasn’t for prorogation...”0 -
Depends whether Boris can kill off the Rebel Bill by not allowing HM to give assent etc. His best option now is Leave 31 October with No Deal and election later. Nothing else seems possible or good.anothernick said:
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:
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If the current bill goes through Parliament, the prorogation then works against Boris Johnson, not for him, because the obligations under it can only be lifted by votes in Parliament.Mysticrose said:But just to humour the most Machiavellian amongst you, and the obsessively paranoid Byronic (welcome back to Camden), can someone answer me this please, pretty, please?
Is it impossible for Johnson to extend the prorogation after it has begun? Could he not just push it back to after 1st Nov? Job done.0 -
So you support Bozo not respecting the law .dyedwoolie said:
I'd say hes cemented the idea that MPs of the opposition are trying to stop Brexit. He wont really care when between now and November we vote because he wont be requesting an extension and it's unlikely the EU will offer one if an election hasn't been called.nico67 said:Bizarrely it would have been better to have lost the case for Bozo .
Because he’s removed the time in which he could continue to pressure the Commons into an earlier election .
His original plan was to suspend the Commons and remove the chance of legislation passing to stop no deal .
The stupid threat to remove the whip from Tory rebels backfired and the legislation is going to pass and all Bozo has done is to reduce the chances of an earlier election.0 -
He's a photographer's gift, you have to give him that.
https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/11698978593211719710 -
The article link suggested the Courts in fact had. Can a Speaker's rulings be challenged in the courts (apologies if this is basic knowledge)?eek said:
The Speaker is taking the Miller court decision to it's logical conclusion. Now you could see if the courts will make a different decision but I seriously doubt they would (or in fact could).oxfordsimon said:
This is why we need to rewrite the rules of Parliament to take away such power from the Speaker. No Speaker should be able to twist things to suit their own agenda - they are the servant of the House, nothing more, nothing less.JackW said:This is the Speakers ruling, still valid, in relation to the "Queen's Consent" from the recent Cooper Benn bill :
"As the House will recall, no Queen’s Consent was required for the contents of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill, which was introduced in January 2017 after the UK Supreme Court decision in the Miller case. My ruling is that as no prerogative consent was required for the Bill in 2017 giving parliamentary authority to the Prime Minister to take action under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, there is no requirement for new and separate prerogative consent to be sought for legislation in 2019 on what further action the Prime Minister should take under the same Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union."
Standing Orders need radical reform. And interpretation should not be left in the hands of any Speaker of any type. Bercow has damaged Parliament by his capricious and incoherent approach to the rules of the House.0 -
ha-haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!Peter_the_Punter said:
Point taken, and I don't think we're basically disagreeing, but to toss the question back at you.......Why didn't May try to convince people, democratically, to take another path?TOPPING said:
Thing is what faith would you have in someone to negotiate a good deal if they didn't want the thing in the first place?Peter_the_Punter said:
In a sense, it's what Mrs May should have done on accession.Scott_P said:
'Look folks, this is dumb, but you voted for it and as your PM I am honour bound to do my best to get the country the best possible deal and one which acknowledges the range of views represented in the Referendum, including the 48% who did not want to leave at all.'
In a way, it's kind of what she tried to do but without putting it like that.
Prima facie it is logical - democratic mandate says we need to do this so we will do our best albeit we disagree with its premise. But it is this last that undoes the whole. If they disagree with its premise why on earth are they working towards it? Why not try to convince people, democratically, to take another path?
Good question. I think she failed to create the right narrative. Something that Boris could probably have done. What do we know about the Tories? That they are on the front foot, positive, and in hold-me-back mood. That all that energy is directed at the cliff edge is distressing but no one can doubt their gumption. Stick the WA in there and it would likewise be swept along.
May had none of that.0 -
https://twitter.com/elliotwagland/status/1169904935451815937
Do as you're told or you're going to MacDonalds.0 -
It would be nice to think that someone had a masterplan. But, TBF to all sides, we have not got any idea whose plan (?) is going to prevail as we have no idea either what victory would look like, how long it will take to get there and who will be top of the pile when it happens. So, what would victory look like for any grouping? (Incompetent leave or divisive remain would hardly count...).Mysticrose said:I do think it's quite amusing that one or two are still desperately clinging to the idea that this is all part of some devilishly clever masterplan by Cummings, hitherto undetected by the masses, rather than the reality.
Which is that it's a giant clusterfuck by the No.10 team.
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It's when you start thinking the captions should contain the words "beleaguered" and "hapless" that you know they are doomed.Scott_P said:0 -
Ah, the woke wing of the the Union Bears raises its somewhat confused head: let the new YOOKAY coastal trading nation flourish, just as long as it doesn't involve nasty Paddy Artics or refrigerated units from NAT voting areas polluting blessed England.TGOHF said:
Are prawns still shipped to Thailand and back for shelling as it’s cheaper ?Theuniondivvie said:
I see he can't be arsed visiting West Coast prawn, crab and scallop fishermen who bring much more value to the UK economy than the pelagic boys, and for whom transportation is ultra time sensitive. Of course they don't have a few politicised big owners with a megaphone straight to the Tory party's ear.dyedwoolie said:
Hes trying to shore up those NE Scotland seatsScott_P said:https://twitter.com/jamesmatthewsky/status/1169892423712948225
We will still be in the EU
I’d have thought St Greta of Govanhill would have stamped out this disgusting source of unnecessary CO2.
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Mr. Byronic, that's foolish. If the author was willing to write of Jesus as 'Christ' then that title denotes his status as the Son of Man, the Anointed One, etc etc, and there shouldn't've been any problem adding actual references to his being the Son of God.0
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I have no idea. I know that it's been applied correctly according to the courts. Not liking something is no reason to start issuing edicts on ot from court. Next it will be removing the royal prerogative powers because they might be used to do 'stuff'Nigelb said:
So what do you think are the legal limits on prorogation ?dyedwoolie said:
So the perfectly normal system of prorogation that normally happens every year and has been legally applied here needs supreme court intervention because people think Boris Johnson might be Loki in disguise?Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.1 -
Only the unpredictable could have gone contrary to plan. Apart from Boris being a bit shit on Wednesday, which he was, what has not been war-gamed ?Beibheirli_C said:
That is want they want you to think. I am sure Cummings has wargamed this....Mysticrose said:I do think it's quite amusing that one or two are still desperately clinging to the idea that this is all part of some devilishly clever masterplan by Cummings, hitherto undetected by the masses, rather than the reality.
Which is that it's a giant clusterfuck by the No.10 team.
As an aside how many Tory councillors who had NEVER broken the group whip were not re-selected for last May - what sympathy did they get from the 21 ?0 -
Those are good images for Boris. He looks manly and capable, and not afraid to get a muck sweat. Contrast with the fastidious, teetotal Corbyn.Scott_P said:0 -
Feel like I might need to keep bumping this. No offence but it's making me a touch edgy. It would such an obvious move. In c. 10 days time, just ask HMQ to extend the prorogation to after 31/10.Mysticrose said:e?
Is it impossible for Johnson to extend the prorogation after it has begun? Could he not just push it back to after 1st Nov? Job done.
Presumably the Opposition have thought of this?
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I think the govt has already agreed the bill will receive the RA by Monday.Stark_Dawning said:
Depends whether Boris can kill off the Rebel Bill by not allowing HM to give assent etc. His best option now is Leave 31 October with No Deal and election later. Nothing else seems possible or good.anothernick said:
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:0 -
When you said "Do you want a fag...."AramintaMoonbeamQC said:He's a photographer's gift, you have to give him that.
https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/11698978593211719710 -
Bull. Sh1t.Scott_P said:0 -
Taking back control.Scott_P said:0 -
A competitive round in the Deeside 'who produces more bullshit' competition.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/elliotwagland/status/1169904935451815937
Do as your told or you're going to MacDonalds.0 -
I didn't say that, that's what will happen imo. I dont just post things I support, I post what I expect to happennico67 said:
So you support Bozo not respecting the law .dyedwoolie said:
I'd say hes cemented the idea that MPs of the opposition are trying to stop Brexit. He wont really care when between now and November we vote because he wont be requesting an extension and it's unlikely the EU will offer one if an election hasn't been called.nico67 said:Bizarrely it would have been better to have lost the case for Bozo .
Because he’s removed the time in which he could continue to pressure the Commons into an earlier election .
His original plan was to suspend the Commons and remove the chance of legislation passing to stop no deal .
The stupid threat to remove the whip from Tory rebels backfired and the legislation is going to pass and all Bozo has done is to reduce the chances of an earlier election.0 -
I think he's going for "plucky" but another zipwire moment seems close.Ishmael_Z said:
It's when you start thinking the captions should contain the words "beleaguered" and "hapless" that you know they are doomed.Scott_P said:
Still, he is PM so for all the ridicule something he is doing is touching a nerve.0 -
"...because of the important point of law at stake." suggests it goes beyond the politics of the moment.kle4 said:
Doesnt it just mean they know it will be appealed and as it is such a live political issue best to settle all appeals quickly?Nigelb said:
Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?Scott_P said:0 -
Smart place to go. SNP established themselves in the NE in the 70s on the basis of the Tory sell-out of the fishermen and "It's Scotland Oil!"Scott_P said:
Oil argument is defunct and now they are the sellers-outers of the fishermen.
Area is naturally small "c" conservative and it is the one part of Scotland where I think the Nats may struggle to win back their lost seats.
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In fairness to Corbyn, he's never off his flipping allotment. I suspect you'd find considerably more soil under his fingernails than under Johnson's.Byronic said:
Those are good images for Boris. He looks manly and capable, and not afraid to get a muck sweat. Contrast with the fastidious, teetotal Corbyn.Scott_P said:0 -
The zipwire thing was a deliberately planned stunt, by all accounts, and was rather successful.TOPPING said:
I think he's going for "plucky" but another zipwire moment seems close.Ishmael_Z said:
It's when you start thinking the captions should contain the words "beleaguered" and "hapless" that you know they are doomed.Scott_P said:
Still, he is PM so for all the ridicule something he is doing is touching a nerve.0 -
Not only does he not know the wholesale price of fish, hes not an expert livestock handlerScott_P said:
The man is the devil himself0 -
Nod your head if you want to stay on.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:He's a photographer's gift, you have to give him that.
https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/11698978593211719710 -
I agree that it would piss off Hard Leavers everywhere, including in the North - and therefore, yes, it is not without political risk. But nothing is at this point.MarqueeMark said:If you don't have Leave on that ballot, you have just lost your northern seats.
They may not consider super-soft Brexit actully leaving.
Coherent? Maybe not....
I also agree that such a Referendum would be open to the charge of "fix!". Indeed every possible formulation of Ref2 is deeply flawed. Which is why I have never been a fan of it. Still not.
But the Labour policy is NOT incoherent. It is perfectly easy to grasp. You may not like it, think it stinks, but the only way you can fail to UNDERSTAND it is willfully.0 -
Parliament has to meet at least once in the year, and a Bill has to be enacted - Triennial Act and Septennial Act so prorogation cannot be for more than about 10 months.kle4 said:
And if there isn't? There perhaps ought to be laws on many things.Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
Well, there's Quentin Letts and...err, that's it.AndyJS said:Anyone who thinks there was anything good about Mugabe's rule should read these articles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/19/mugabe-zimbabwe-gukurahundi-massacre-matabeleland
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1169850394375098368?s=200 -
Zapppppp0
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Strictly's first same sex couple try out their paso.Scott_P said:
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As I said yesterday people make too much of such things. But that is funny.Scott_P said:0 -
Yes, doing shots back at my place at 4am wasn't a great idea, nor was what followed, but at least you've got somewhere to go back to this time.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:He's a photographer's gift, you have to give him that.
https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/1169897859321171971
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anothernick said:
I think the govt has already agreed the bill will receive the RA by Monday.Stark_Dawning said:
Depends whether Boris can kill off the Rebel Bill by not allowing HM to give assent etc. His best option now is Leave 31 October with No Deal and election later. Nothing else seems possible or good.anothernick said:
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:
In that case Cummings must have another trick up his sleeve to prevent an extension. Quite what remains to be seen and be amazed at.0 -
Say what you like about Boris but he's always good for a laugh and a photo op.Scott_P said:0 -
In those times 34/36 was a good age - top end of average life expectancy!Byronic said:
“Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
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Morning PB
Gina Millar and her "legal team" have lost then! 0 -
Jonathan said:
Taking back control.Scott_P said:
Hah. I’ve just noticed. Check out the alpha male stare Boris is giving the bull, which the bull is giving right back. Pure rutting masculinity. Yeah? Yeah?? You want some??? Do you???Scott_P said:
Might be worth a few hundred votes from fans of Fifty Shades.0 -
I dont see how. The appeal by definition would be about an important point of lawNigelb said:
"...because of the important point of law at stake." suggests it goes beyond the politics of the moment.kle4 said:
Doesnt it just mean they know it will be appealed and as it is such a live political issue best to settle all appeals quickly?Nigelb said:
Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?Scott_P said:
, the assertion was that the judges think hes stepped up to the line and i dont see how that can be assumed from those words. Just that this is an important issue and it needs settling, not that they think hes stretched anything. Perhaps they think that buy those words just suggest to me that they think we need a final resolution quickly.0 -
I do wish people would stop elevating this politically autistic advisor. He was good on one single issue campaign that didn't involve dealing with MPs or, indeed, anyone who had a voice in or around his team.Stark_Dawning said:anothernick said:
I think the govt has already agreed the bill will receive the RA by Monday.Stark_Dawning said:
Depends whether Boris can kill off the Rebel Bill by not allowing HM to give assent etc. His best option now is Leave 31 October with No Deal and election later. Nothing else seems possible or good.anothernick said:
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:
In that case Cummings must have another trick up his sleeve to prevent an extension. Quite what remains to be seen and be amazed at.
Cummings is politically inept and has created a total disaster.
We had all this nonsense hero worship with Nick Timothy.0 -
Yes I read that also - it never, ever stops midway apart from that one time....Nigelb said:
The zipwire thing was a deliberately planned stunt, by all accounts, and was rather successful.TOPPING said:
I think he's going for "plucky" but another zipwire moment seems close.Ishmael_Z said:
It's when you start thinking the captions should contain the words "beleaguered" and "hapless" that you know they are doomed.Scott_P said:
Still, he is PM so for all the ridicule something he is doing is touching a nerve.0 -
AFAIK, the FTPA repealed the Septennial Act in its entirety.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Parliament has to meet at least once in the year, and a Bill has to be enacted - Triennial Act and Septennial Act so prorogation cannot be for more than about 10 months.kle4 said:
And if there isn't? There perhaps ought to be laws on many things.Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.
(The Triennial Act was repealed well before.)0 -
From the EU perspective, the renegotiation with Labour will lead to one of two outcomes, Remain or the sort of Brexit they have favoured from the start, a closely aligned future relationship.Byronic said:It’s like stand up comedy. Quite good stand up, at that. Why should Brussels give a “better” deal to a government which doesn’t actually want or believe in any deal, and who will then campaign against their “own” deal, anyway? PLEASE GIVE ME A HUNDRED QUID BECAUSE I HATE MONEY AND I WANT TO THROW A HUNDRED QUID IN THE NEAREST CANAL.
It is beyond bizarre.
Thornberry’s humiliation on QT showed how people will react to this stance. I sincerely hope Labour persist with it. They could suffer generational damage.
Difficult to see why they would be overly obstructive.0 -
Slightly misleading due to higher infant mortality surely?CarlottaVance said:
In those times 34/36 was a good age - top end of average life expectancy!Byronic said:
“Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
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And then, six or eight weeks later, in the midst of the initial No-Deal upsets, he has to go to the country and say "I know it looks bad, but I did it for you - vote for me!"?Mysticrose said:
Feel like I might need to keep bumping this. No offence but it's making me a touch edgy. It would such an obvious move. In c. 10 days time, just ask HMQ to extend the prorogation to after 31/10.Mysticrose said:e?
Is it impossible for Johnson to extend the prorogation after it has begun? Could he not just push it back to after 1st Nov? Job done.
Presumably the Opposition have thought of this?
It is brilliant enough of a strategy to have been wargamed by the Machiavelli-in-Chief except he leaves at the end of October for something medical0 -
Cummings is a tool. Framing the opposition as blocking Brexit is broadly a winning approach I think but its execution has been abject. What really did for him was the size of the rebellion. I guess he thought they might be suspending the whip from a handful, not 21, but that was down to how things were done. The sequencing was all askew.Mysticrose said:
I do wish people would stop elevating this politically autistic advisor. He was good on one single issue campaign that didn't involve dealing with MPs or, indeed, anyone who had a voice in or around his team.Stark_Dawning said:anothernick said:
I think the govt has already agreed the bill will receive the RA by Monday.Stark_Dawning said:
Depends whether Boris can kill off the Rebel Bill by not allowing HM to give assent etc. His best option now is Leave 31 October with No Deal and election later. Nothing else seems possible or good.anothernick said:
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:
In that case Cummings must have another trick up his sleeve to prevent an extension. Quite what remains to be seen and be amazed at.
Cummings is politically inept and has created a total disaster.
We had all this nonsense hero worship with Nick Timothy.0 -
Yes. Boris can make me smile. Not sure why. He just has a comic gift. This doesn’t make him a nice person, see the life and career of Tommy Cooper, one of the most gifted comedians of the 20th century.GIN1138 said:
Say what you like about Boris but he's always good for a laugh and a photo op.Scott_P said:
It is valuable, tho, especially when campaigning. TMay, by contrast, ALWAYS made me cringe. This seriously damaged her.1 -
My point was wishing there to be a law on something doesnt make it so even if it is a really good idea. The specifics of this case was moot to that.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Parliament has to meet at least once in the year, and a Bill has to be enacted - Triennial Act and Septennial Act so prorogation cannot be for more than about 10 months.kle4 said:
And if there isn't? There perhaps ought to be laws on many things.Scott_P said:
Yes. If he can prorogue for 5 weeks, he can do it for 5 months or 5 years.Nigelb said:Which would tend to suggest they think Johnson has stretched prorogation to its absolute limits, and they need to establish those limits in law PDQ ?
There is no political route to prevent that. There ought to be a legal one.0 -
I once went round Highgate Cemetery on a tour (yes, i know ...) where exactly that point was made. Even in the bad old days, people had a good chance of hitting their 60s. Lots of infant deaths skews the number down.kle4 said:
Slightly misleading due to higher infant mortality surely?CarlottaVance said:
In those times 34/36 was a good age - top end of average life expectancy!Byronic said:
“Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
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Adult life expectancy was probably around 45 or 50.kle4 said:
Slightly misleading due to higher infant mortality surely?CarlottaVance said:
In those times 34/36 was a good age - top end of average life expectancy!Byronic said:
“Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
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0
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In theory yes. Prorogation is a Royal Prerogative power and by convention the Queen would accept the advice of the Prime Minister.Mysticrose said:
Feel like I might need to keep bumping this. No offence but it's making me a touch edgy. It would such an obvious move. In c. 10 days time, just ask HMQ to extend the prorogation to after 31/10.Mysticrose said:e?
Is it impossible for Johnson to extend the prorogation after it has begun? Could he not just push it back to after 1st Nov? Job done.
Presumably the Opposition have thought of this?
However in light of the ongoing court case, the Queens Speech announcement and the political fallout I doubt the Queen would consent. There is also the small measure of the Letwin Bill having become law and the EU indicating that the passing of the law was de facto the formal approach to extension. Much dispute about the latter.
There are also certain circumstances during Prorogation when parliament may be recalled under statute and under the Royal Prerogative.0 -
Its alliterative so they think it'll stick well . But Conservative Chaos works even better.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I see that Johnson is visiting Balmoral today. I'd love to hear the conversation between him and the Queen. I think it is the first time they've met since he went to the Palace to kiss hands.eek said:
This - without Parliament being Prorogued as soon as Corbyn and co asked for an election Boris could have recalled Parliament and the election kicked off.nico67 said:Bizarrely it would have been better to have lost the case for Bozo .
Because he’s removed the time in which he could continue to pressure the Commons into an earlier election .
His original plan was to suspend the Commons and remove the chance of legislation passing to stop no deal .
The stupid threat to remove the whip from Tory rebels backfired and the legislation is going to pass and all Bozo has done is to reduce the chances of an earlier election.
Now Corbyn only has to wait until a day or 2 after Parliament is prorogued and he can spend 6 weeks asking Boris to recall Parliament so an election could be called.
And you then have the Queens speech where Boris is controlling Parliament but still cannot give Corbyn the formal FTPA election debate until his Queen's speech has been completely trashed.
It really does play badly for him.
I wouldn't be surprised if she informs him that Prince Charles will be delivering the Queen's Speech as it is clearly a sham and a waste of her time and she wants none of it.
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Laura Kuenssberg revealed as evil mastermind behind The Boris Bot.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:He's a photographer's gift, you have to give him that.
https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/11698978593211719710 -
An interestingly balanced piece that takes Paul Masterton (I know Alastair Meeks is a fan) as a starting point.
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/1169905187340767233?s=20
'So back in 2017, when I asked Masterton how he was faring in Westminster’s crumbling corridors, I didn’t expect to receive an interesting answer. But I got one. “I’m wondering why I’m spending my time with so many terrible people,” he said.'
Words to live by.0 -
Is Quentin Letts right about anything? As I recall he gave Hamilton its only bad London review.Theuniondivvie said:
Well, there's Quentin Letts and...err, that's it.AndyJS said:Anyone who thinks there was anything good about Mugabe's rule should read these articles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/19/mugabe-zimbabwe-gukurahundi-massacre-matabeleland
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/1169850394375098368?s=200 -
So mid 30s not bad all the same.AndyJS said:
Adult life expectancy was probably around 45 or 50.kle4 said:
Slightly misleading due to higher infant mortality surely?CarlottaVance said:
In those times 34/36 was a good age - top end of average life expectancy!Byronic said:
“Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
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He’s not a tool. He’s a very clever strategist trying to do the near-impossible: solve Brexit. Let’s face it, no one else has solved it. It may be unsolvable.dyedwoolie said:
Cummings is a tool. Framing the opposition as blocking Brexit is broadly a winning approach I think but its execution has been abject. What really did for him was the size of the rebellion. I guess he thought they might be suspending the whip from a handful, not 21, but that was down to how things were done. The sequencing was all askew.Mysticrose said:
I do wish people would stop elevating this politically autistic advisor. He was good on one single issue campaign that didn't involve dealing with MPs or, indeed, anyone who had a voice in or around his team.Stark_Dawning said:anothernick said:
I think the govt has already agreed the bill will receive the RA by Monday.Stark_Dawning said:
Depends whether Boris can kill off the Rebel Bill by not allowing HM to give assent etc. His best option now is Leave 31 October with No Deal and election later. Nothing else seems possible or good.anothernick said:
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:
In that case Cummings must have another trick up his sleeve to prevent an extension. Quite what remains to be seen and be amazed at.
Cummings is politically inept and has created a total disaster.
We had all this nonsense hero worship with Nick Timothy.0 -
And now the Tories can't back down resulting in 12 seats probably being needlessly lost.dyedwoolie said:
Cummings is a tool. Framing the opposition as blocking Brexit is broadly a winning approach I think but its execution has been abject. What really did for him was the size of the rebellion. I guess he thought they might be suspending the whip from a handful, not 21, but that was down to how things were done. The sequencing was all askew.Mysticrose said:
I do wish people would stop elevating this politically autistic advisor. He was good on one single issue campaign that didn't involve dealing with MPs or, indeed, anyone who had a voice in or around his team.Stark_Dawning said:anothernick said:
I think the govt has already agreed the bill will receive the RA by Monday.Stark_Dawning said:
Depends whether Boris can kill off the Rebel Bill by not allowing HM to give assent etc. His best option now is Leave 31 October with No Deal and election later. Nothing else seems possible or good.anothernick said:
I think you mean a post-extension general election? After Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave by 31 October has been binned.Stark_Dawning said:
Proroguing doesn’t look too smart now - just allows Jezza to sit back and count the days until a post-No Deal general election. Tic toc.Scott_P said:
In that case Cummings must have another trick up his sleeve to prevent an extension. Quite what remains to be seen and be amazed at.
Cummings is politically inept and has created a total disaster.
We had all this nonsense hero worship with Nick Timothy.0 -
kle4 said:
Slightly misleading due to higher infant mortality surely?CarlottaVance said:
In those times 34/36 was a good age - top end of average life expectancy!Byronic said:
“Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
By any contemporary measure 36 was not “tragically young”. Some of his contemporaries would have been grandparents.kle4 said:
Slightly misleading due to higher infant mortality surely?CarlottaVance said:
In those times 34/36 was a good age - top end of average life expectancy!Byronic said:
“Jesus Christ, the son of a carpenter, died at a tragically young age”A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
I once attended a funeral service where there was lots of really unsettlingly weird behaviour - vestal virgins, guitars, acrobats, God knows what. Forced to make a positive comment for the press I described the occasion as "memorable".Roger said:Anyone hear the spokesman from Zanu describe Mugabe's death as 'untimely'?
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But he put the 'BACK' in TAKE BACK CONTROL! - and not only that, he did it after a few red wines and staring at a white board non-stop for, like, HOURS.Mysticrose said:I do wish people would stop elevating this politically autistic advisor. He was good on one single issue campaign that didn't involve dealing with MPs or, indeed, anyone who had a voice in or around his team.
Amazing.
Once he's sorted out this current bit of fluff and nonsense we should get him on a cure for cancer. Then the big one - time travel.0 -
Surely it would have been far better for Boris if she had won? He could have Parliament sitting again and get up to all sorts of mischief. At the moment he is hoisted by his own petard...GIN1138 said:Morning PB
Gina Millar and her "legal team" have lost then!0
