politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories seem determined to blow up their own party
Comments
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All happily encouraged by our foreign-owned press.Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.0 -
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:0 -
Noo said:
I hate to be the one to point this out, but "horrible optics" is largely a thing of the past. We are in an attention-driven political system now. Attention is everything, and ideology and decency are a poor silver and bronze.TheScreamingEagles said:
Patriots, every single one of them.williamglenn said:
Though Boris Johnson expelling Churchill's Grandson from the Tory party will be horrible optics.
Dead cats used to be a distraction against bad news cycles, but now they are the path to power.
Importing PR strategy from a two party system USA, will have counterproductive results in a multi-party country. Tactical voting will be turbo charged against the Tories...Noo said:
I hate to be the one to point this out, but "horrible optics" is largely a thing of the past. We are in an attention-driven political system now. Attention is everything, and ideology and decency are a poor silver and bronze.TheScreamingEagles said:
Patriots, every single one of them.williamglenn said:
Though Boris Johnson expelling Churchill's Grandson from the Tory party will be horrible optics.
Dead cats used to be a distraction against bad news cycles, but now they are the path to power.0 -
Is Self-Immolate on the Altar of Bum Sex a track off the new Morrissey album?El_Capitano said:
A GE will see more airtime for both Farage and Swinson. Assuming none of them self-immolate on the altar of bum sex then I expect their parties to benefit accordingly.Byronic said:
Hmm. My wild guess is that BXP will be really squished and Boris will get a small but useful majority. 25-50?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I expect a SNP whitewash, strong lib dem gains in London and the South, big conservatives gains in leave areas with labour caught in a pincer movement that sees them losing seats to the SNP, conservatives and lib dems but at the same time many conservative loses.Byronic said:
The polls point to a good Tory majority. BUT this is a wholly unprecedented and unpredictable election IF IT HAPPENS ( I’m not convinced)Big_G_NorthWales said:
It has to come one way or another but I do not expect a Boris majority government. Indeed possibly just as deadlockedScott_P said:
But let’s say Boris wins his maj. Before Brexit. What then? He will presumably push through a deal of some kind. With a small extension.
Result a conservative minority government and more deadlock1 -
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.0 -
Well, I don't think communism is a good idea, but I respect isam's right to hold whatever views they like.OldKingCole said:0 -
He's there. You need to click on it to see the full list.Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:0 -
They want Britain to speak with a united voice, otherwise their task is impossible. The trouble is that we are deeply split.Big_G_NorthWales said:Breaking on Sky
EU commission has just said it would be entirely unreasonable for mps to try to bind the hands of the Prime Minister
Now that is surprising0 -
If 20 people are prepared to vote against, I wonder what the abstentions might be .0
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Interesting you mention architecture. Remainers are behaving just like those arrogant arses who put up a bloody huge building without planning permission. Now they have been found out by the authorities, have been told to dismantle their creation. They've tried to string it along for three years.Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
"But you can't do that! We've built a THING OF BEAUTY!"
As they form a human chain around the great ediface, their pleas to the driver of the bulldozer are falling on deaf ears.
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Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.0 -
Other than when Priti Patel's family etc came, has there ever been a time when 10,000 people all came at once?Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
Not that I had a problem with that, I hasten to add.0 -
There's never been a better time for such a party...TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, looks like our New Socially Liberal, Fiscally Dry Tory not obsessed with the gays, immigration, and Europe party is about to get an influx of members.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'd always wished TMay had the strength to take the whip away from the worst of the extreme headbangers, now they are in charge... the moderates are being driven out.
If only there had been any such precedent with Labour to warn of such events...
Oh.
PS - Disappointed with the result against The Woolwich or are you happy?
On balance, leaving City and Arse undefeated whilst in 'crisis' isn't that bad.... the Newcastle performance was as abysmal as I've seen under Poch.... but the first 60 mins vs Villa were bad too.... Keep and start Christian and we finish TOP 4.0 -
That list looks to be missing some names. Huw Merriman for starters.williamglenn said:
He's there. You need to click on it to see the full list.Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:0 -
I'm glad I stopped watching Southend a few years ago. Could be very depressing now.Scrapheap_as_was said:
There's never been a better time for such a party...TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, looks like our New Socially Liberal, Fiscally Dry Tory not obsessed with the gays, immigration, and Europe party is about to get an influx of members.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'd always wished TMay had the strength to take the whip away from the worst of the extreme headbangers, now they are in charge... the moderates are being driven out.
If only there had been any such precedent with Labour to warn of such events...
Oh.
PS - Disappointed with the result against The Woolwich or are you happy?
On balance, leaving City and Arse undefeated whilst in 'crisis' isn't that bad.... the Newcastle performance was as abysmal as I've seen under Poch.... but the first 60 mins vs Villa were bad too.... Keep and start Christian and we finish TOP 4.0 -
I suspect a criticism that could be levelled at the EU is that they haven't caught up with just how deeply split we are.OblitusSumMe said:
They want Britain to speak with a united voice, otherwise their task is impossible. The trouble is that we are deeply split.Big_G_NorthWales said:Breaking on Sky
EU commission has just said it would be entirely unreasonable for mps to try to bind the hands of the Prime Minister
Now that is surprising0 -
This actually happened (kind of) in Clerkenwell.MarqueeMark said:
Interesting you mention architecture. Remainers are behaving just like those arrogant arses who put up a bloody huge building without planning permission. Now they have been found out by the authorities, have been told to dismantle their creation. They've tried to string it along for three years.Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
"But you can't do that! We've built a THING OF BEAUTY!"
As they form a human chain around the great ediface, their pleas to the driver of the bulldozer are falling on deaf ears.
Shit-hot architect Amin Taha built a very interesting office block and home for himself on Clerkenwell Close. But somehow the council failed to approve the (innovative) cladding, and requested the whole thing come down.
The council has relented.0 -
Its a sorry state of affairs! Difficult to predict how any of this pans out...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Easy to say, not so easy to do without a GEThe_Taxman said:
Disgusting given ERG 'loyalty' in the past few years.TheScreamingEagles said:
Patriots, every single one of them.williamglenn said:
Though Boris Johnson expelling Churchill's Grandson from the Tory party will be horrible optics.
Boris Johnson should be removed from office. The only option MPs can stop No Deal with and ensure A50 extension.0 -
Philip Lee?Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:
Perhaps Pesto has them down as Liberal Democrats already (or did I miss something?)0 -
Thanks. The full list is quite impressive. I have a feeling that being on the list might end their careers even if they don't actually do anything.williamglenn said:
He's there. You need to click on it to see the full list.Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:0 -
It looks ludicrous. Because this is a ludicrous comparison.Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
Incidentally, exactly the same applies in reverse. Imagine you live in a humble but quiet Muslim suburb in Turkey. Then 10,000 poor, sweary, beer-swilling Brits decide to suddenly move there, and open pubs?
The Turks would obviously complain. And their complaints would be justified.0 -
They are just terrified it might give the European Parliament ideas!Big_G_NorthWales said:Breaking on Sky
EU commission has just said it would be entirely unreasonable for mps to try to bind the hands of the Prime Minister
Now that is surprising0 -
Byronic is actually right.Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
I would not particularly welcome 10,000 of any sort into my ward. They could be 10,000 Australians or 10,000 Jews or 10,000 Women’s Instituters.
People don’t like cultural change. Not rapid cultural change, anyway.
I don’t think that’s racist, particularly.0 -
Why are Leavers threatening to bulldoze the whole town?MarqueeMark said:
Interesting you mention architecture. Remainers are behaving just like those arrogant arses who put up a bloody huge building without planning permission. Now they have been found out by the authorities, have been told to dismantle their creation. They've tried to string it along for three years.Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
"But you can't do that! We've built a THING OF BEAUTY!"
As they form a human chain around the great ediface, their pleas to the driver of the bulldozer are falling on deaf ears.0 -
When are Philip Lee and Soubry’s lot going to stop fucking about and join the Lib Dems?OblitusSumMe said:
Philip Lee?Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:
Perhaps Pesto has them down as Liberal Democrats already (or did I miss something?)0 -
In 2004 the government predicted 13,000 Eastern Europeans would move to the UK and in fact more than a million did so. It probably would have been better if they hadn't made any predictions.0
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I'd have thought that some of the Scottish MPs should also be on it.AlastairMeeks said:
That list looks to be missing some names. Huw Merriman for starters.williamglenn said:
He's there. You need to click on it to see the full list.Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:
(I'm not absolutely sure about Huw. He's very loyal and quite cautious, and his constituency is very Leavey, which I think will influence him a lot. I know him reasonably well although I haven't spoken to him recently.)0 -
It's not a comparison. It's a simple demonstration of how racist your statement was.Byronic said:
It looks ludicrous. Because this is a ludicrous comparison.Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
Tell me, why did you feel the need to specify "Roma," if you just meant "anyone"? Because you were trying to play on racial prejudice against Roma, of course.1 -
Add Jonathan DjanoglyOblitusSumMe said:
Philip Lee?Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:
Perhaps Pesto has them down as Liberal Democrats already (or did I miss something?)0 -
So what you are doing is defining an outgroup (leave voters) and making blanket and absurd prejudiced statements against it. And that makes you no better than, say, a homophobe or racist yourself.Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Your points are not terribly cogent, either. I don't understand the pensioners one at all, and what bearing does the wealth of the "architects" of brexit have on the way the vote went?
Are you an obligate user of social housing? If not what do you know about the mindset of people who are? I can rather easily imagine that if there isn't enough housing to go round people feel that it's a bit stupid importing more people to lengthen the queue. Which is not a racist point.0 -
And when that innovative cladding burns down a la Grefell Tower, there will be some interesting questions to answer.....Gardenwalker said:
This actually happened (kind of) in Clerkenwell.MarqueeMark said:
Interesting you mention architecture. Remainers are behaving just like those arrogant arses who put up a bloody huge building without planning permission. Now they have been found out by the authorities, have been told to dismantle their creation. They've tried to string it along for three years.Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
"But you can't do that! We've built a THING OF BEAUTY!"
As they form a human chain around the great ediface, their pleas to the driver of the bulldozer are falling on deaf ears.
Shit-hot architect Amin Taha built a very interesting office block and home for himself on Clerkenwell Close. But somehow the council failed to approve the (innovative) cladding, and requested the whole thing come down.
The council has relented.0 -
Moreover, the attempt to close down any complaints about cultural change, with the boo-word of ‘racist’, is one very big reason for the Brexit vote.Gardenwalker said:
Byronic is actually right.Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
I would not particularly welcome 10,000 of any sort into my ward. They could be 10,000 Australians or 10,000 Jews or 10,000 Women’s Instituters.
People don’t like cultural change. Not rapid cultural change, anyway.
I don’t think that’s racist, particularly.
If you won’t let people express reasonable dissatisfaction in public, they will do it in private, in the voting booth.0 -
Why is the bulldozer driver is threatening to level the whole street?MarqueeMark said:
their pleas to the driver of the bulldozer are falling on deaf ears.0 -
The only thing I could disagree with this article on is it's title. It uses the present tense, when the past tense would be accurate, for they have already achieved that end. Conservative Party RIP. May its successor, CINO be recognised for what it is.0
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My chemistry teacher was always throwing sodium chloride at me. With the benefit of hindsight it was a salt.CD13 said:Mr Eagles,
As Remainers all have an 'ology' in 'Expressive Dance', they'll know everything about science. Chlorine is a nasty chemical and sodium is a nasty metal, That's why salt is so dangerous.0 -
0
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It would be quite a climbdown from this:Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that some of the Scottish MPs should also be on it.AlastairMeeks said:
That list looks to be missing some names. Huw Merriman for starters.williamglenn said:
He's there. You need to click on it to see the full list.Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:
(I'm not absolutely sure about Huw. He's very loyal and quite cautious, and his constituency is very Leavey, which I think will influence him a lot. I know him reasonably well although I haven't spoken to him recently.)
https://twitter.com/huwmerriman/status/1168287556712185858?s=21
I expect the Scots will act more or less en masse whatever they do.0 -
Is that an actual plan? It would be one way of getting the Brexit vote down.Byronic said:
It looks ludicrous. Because this is a ludicrous comparison.Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
Incidentally, exactly the same applies in reverse. Imagine you live in a humble but quiet Muslim suburb in Turkey. Then 10,000 poor, sweary, beer-swilling Brits decide to suddenly move there, and open pubs?
The Turks would obviously complain. And their complaints would be justified.0 -
Any option to remain will be seen as a “do-over”Jonathan said:We need a second referendum to undo the damage of a very poorly designed first question. Whilst deceptively simple it failed in one key respect. Other less catastrophic referenda have pitched the status quo vs a clearly defined new end state. By failing to do that, the 2016 referendum created this mess.
We need to pitch the possible end states against one another, including an option to remain partly to ensure full participation, but also to recognise the vagueness of the first question. Something has to win now and a vote is the fairest way to do it IMO. There will be pain and outrage with any outcome. This is the least bad outcome.
Far chance of course whilst this government is bent on forcing its will through all possible parliamentary tactics and abuse of positional power.
Do you really believe Leave would ever have been given another chance had the vote gone the other way?0 -
Bluekip.Nigel_Foremain said:The only thing I could disagree with this article on is it's title. It uses the present tense, when the past tense would be accurate, for they have already achieved that end. Conservative Party RIP. May its successor, CINO be recognised for what it is.
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Boris will read a list of those he's identified as traitors and, one by one, they will be led away in tears.dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
Your blinkered attitude explains perfectly why Leave did so wellGallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.0 -
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I chose Roma because Roma come:Chris said:
It's not a comparison. It's a simple demonstration of how racist your statement was.Byronic said:
It looks ludicrous. Because this is a ludicrous comparison.Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
Tell me, why did you feel the need to specify "Roma," if you just meant "anyone"? Because you were trying to play on racial prejudice against Roma, of course.
1. From other parts of the EU, and
2. Unlike almost all other EU migrants, they have a large number of troubling social problems that come with them: extremely low literacy levels, low education, etc.
It’s quite likely these problems stem, at least in part, from the grievous discrimination Roma face, back home, in Bulgaria and Romania etc. But denying they exist, and denying they cause dismay in their new communities, is a futile exercise. As one might expect from a crazed Remainer.
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I could be wrong but I think Paul Masterton is the only SCon MP who might conceivably be added to the list, I'd assume the rest will be keeping their heads down in the current state of flux for their sub branch.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that some of the Scottish MPs should also be on it.AlastairMeeks said:
That list looks to be missing some names. Huw Merriman for starters.williamglenn said:
He's there. You need to click on it to see the full list.Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:
(I'm not absolutely sure about Huw. He's very loyal and quite cautious, and his constituency is very Leavey, which I think will influence him a lot. I know him reasonably well although I haven't spoken to him recently.)
Kirstene Hair might put her name on the list by accident, mind.
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Do Scots ever get sick of hearing that every single possible thing are grounds for, or related to, Scottish Independence?Scott_P said:0 -
You need to get them approved by the Electoral Commission. I don’t know the rules but they might judge a party running under that name is a spoilerNigelb said:
Why ?Charles said:
I doubt you’d be allowed to register as “independent conservatives”.El_Capitano said:Startling claim in Katy Balls’ piece for the Guardian:
“That idea is so toxic to some would-be rebels that talks are under way for a group of about 20 MPs to form a breakout party and stand as independent Conservatives. Other Tory MPs have lost the will to fight and are considering simply not seeking re-election.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/01/tories-no-deal-choose-career-conscience0 -
"I've spoken to the Leader of the Opposition. We're agreed we're calling a General Election tomorrow, for the 18th October. As there won't have been a vote for some of you to rebel on, it will be up to your consciences - and your local associations - as to whether you stand again as candidates."dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking Jews first.”Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
They don't run everything you know0 -
General election this year has shortened a lot today to 1.260
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General Election after the votes tomorrow.dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
Apperently not since they keep voting SNPGardenwalker said:
Do Scots ever get sick of hearing that every single possible thing are grounds for, or related to, Scottish Independence?Scott_P said:0 -
Yes we thought it had been put to bed until brexit turned up.Gardenwalker said:
Do Scots ever get sick of hearing that every single possible thing are grounds for, or related to, Scottish Independence?Scott_P said:
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This is important.Scott_P said:
Boris goes chasing a mandate for X, he ends up handing a mandate for Y to the SNP.
Odds are pretty good the SNP's vote share in Scotland will exceed the Conservative vote share in the UK. Scottish unionists are about to be cut adrift.0 -
We all know a general election is coming...but has anybody told brenda yet?0
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Who knows? A parallel universe we will never know about. Events may have played out like they did in Scotland with the losing side in the ascendent.Charles said:
Any option to remain will be seen as a “do-over”Jonathan said:We need a second referendum to undo the damage of a very poorly designed first question. Whilst deceptively simple it failed in one key respect. Other less catastrophic referenda have pitched the status quo vs a clearly defined new end state. By failing to do that, the 2016 referendum created this mess.
We need to pitch the possible end states against one another, including an option to remain partly to ensure full participation, but also to recognise the vagueness of the first question. Something has to win now and a vote is the fairest way to do it IMO. There will be pain and outrage with any outcome. This is the least bad outcome.
Far chance of course whilst this government is bent on forcing its will through all possible parliamentary tactics and abuse of positional power.
Do you really believe Leave would ever have been given another chance had the vote gone the other way?
Closer to home. There is no outcome now (thanks to the flawed design of the 2016 vote and everything that has happened since) that will please everyone. We need the least worst option.
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Seems a bit OTT way of introducing his new dog.dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
BBC News - Brexit: No 10 'considering' election amid no-deal battle with MPs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-495499600 -
Probably slightly less sick than of hearing everything being related to Brexit, with generally much more of the latter than the former beating down the doors to our eardrums.Gardenwalker said:
Do Scots ever get sick of hearing that every single possible thing are grounds for, or related to, Scottish Independence?Scott_P said:0 -
One of them is my father. For the avoidance of doubt he is none of thoseGardenwalker said:
To be fair Charles, you’re now talking to a rump of disaster capitalists, inbred aristocrats and crypto-fascists.Charles said:
If (which I acknowledge is Spartan) you assume that post Brexit the Tories will adopt a more traditional posture then they will come back over time (eg Emma Nicholson is a Tory peer).AlastairMeeks said:One further point. Boris Johnson can threaten anti-no dealers with expulsion. But once they're gone, they're gone. They won't be coming back, they'll be looking for a new home (almost certainly the Lib Dems in the long term).
What has interested me in the conversations I’ve had is the number of donors and supporters who don’t like Boris one bit and yet are backing him because there needs to be resolution
I know you are upset and frustrated. But try not to lash out.0 -
Be very surprised if any of the Scots Tory MPs peeled off. Rejecting Brexit is tantamount to giving SNP go-ahead to another IndyRef. NE ones are, to some extent, protected by relatively high Brexit vote. Keenest Remainer is Paul Masterton but no indication that he is jumping ship so far as I am aware.AlastairMeeks said:
It would be quite a climbdown from this:Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that some of the Scottish MPs should also be on it.AlastairMeeks said:
That list looks to be missing some names. Huw Merriman for starters.williamglenn said:
He's there. You need to click on it to see the full list.Recidivist said:
Not Sam Gyimah?williamglenn said:
(I'm not absolutely sure about Huw. He's very loyal and quite cautious, and his constituency is very Leavey, which I think will influence him a lot. I know him reasonably well although I haven't spoken to him recently.)
https://twitter.com/huwmerriman/status/1168287556712185858?s=21
I expect the Scots will act more or less en masse whatever they do.0 -
He’s planning a massacre in the garden, like the Night of the Long Knives scene in Cabaret.dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
Jeremy Corbyn says the UK "needs" a general election, despite warnings from Tony Blair that such a vote would be "an elephant trap" for Labour.
Its coming....0 -
"I have here a warrant for the arrest of five members of this party"......Stark_Dawning said:
Boris will read a list of those he's identified as traitors and, one by one, they will be led away in tears.dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
If you look at what Boris has actually done in the past he’s a fairly liberal conservative. He just believes we need to deliver Brexit.JosiasJessop said:
That is one heck of an assumption. If you were one of the hard-right un-conservative Conservatives such as JRM or Bone, then why would you lose this chance to remodel the country in line with your backwards views?Charles said:
If (which I acknowledge is Spartan) you assume that post Brexit the Tories will adopt a more traditional posture then they will come back over time (eg Emma Nicholson is a Tory peer).AlastairMeeks said:One further point. Boris Johnson can threaten anti-no dealers with expulsion. But once they're gone, they're gone. They won't be coming back, they'll be looking for a new home (almost certainly the Lib Dems in the long term).
What has interested me in the conversations I’ve had is the number of donors and supporters who don’t like Boris one bit and yet are backing him because there needs to be resolution
As with Johnson (and Corbyn for that matter), this isn't really about Brexit. It's about getting power.
I’m sure he’d rather a deal but if that’s not possible on acceptable terms then so be it0 -
After team boris has clearly leaked to laura K, if they dont go for it, it will be like brown non-election all over again.0
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A GE would be good for all of us. I expect Boris to win, and then Remainers will have to shut up, finally. We will all have spoken.FrancisUrquhart said:Jeremy Corbyn says the UK "needs" a general election, despite warnings from Tony Blair that such a vote would be "an elephant trap" for Labour.
Its coming....
And if Swinson wins, then, fair enough, let’s revoke and rejoin.
And if Corbyn wins we emigrate.
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I wonder if the SNP could put in their manifesto that in the event of No Deal, they would seek independence immediately.Scott_P said:0 -
Boris will be Boris.FrancisUrquhart said:
Seems a bit OTT way of introducing his new dog.dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
The only option they voted for (albeit barely) was the WA minus the backstop. With Article 50 they legislated for the possibility of no deal. They need to pass a law to prevent thatScott_P said:
Parliament rejected No DealCharles said:Parliament has rejected all other options
No deal is what remains
Revoke is what remains0 -
Isn't that a sacking offence? Has anyone told Dominic?FrancisUrquhart said:After team boris has clearly leaked to laura K, if they dont go for it, it will be like brown non-election all over again.
0 -
Those who would like a second referendum should probably accept that it's very unlikely to happen, and that a general election is the closest thing they're going to get. (It's up to them to arrange candidates in constituencies so their vote isn't split).0
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More highland games, heading the javelin and catching the shot. https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/11684932016881500170
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Belts and/or braces removed so they humiliatingly have to hold their trousers up as they shuffle off to the piano wires and meat hooks.Stark_Dawning said:
Boris will read a list of those he's identified as traitors and, one by one, they will be led away in tears.dr_spyn said:Something's a foot, or 12 inches.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11684888750750351370 -
WatO leading with general election speculation.0
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A general election before Brexit seems like a huge strategic mistake by Boris.
Absolutely anything could happen once people turn their attention to it (the opinion polls now mean very little).0 -
Of course this could all lead to a Gordon Brown the bottler moment...0
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Yes. Exactly. This is as close to a 2nd referendum as is possible. Each party has a fairly explicit and different position on Brexit. So. Place your bets, gentlemen.AndyJS said:Those who would like a second referendum should probably accept that it's very unlikely to happen, and that a general election is the closest thing they're going to get. (It's up to them to arrange candidates in constituencies so their vote isn't split).
0 -
The plan is that northern Brexit supporters who generally vote Labour will turn out for Boris to make sure we leave?
It might work. But if, and only if, it doesn't get out that that is the plan.0 -
Full disclosure: I am a layer of a GE this year.0
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Did he have much choice? He must have looked at the numbers and thought: I’m going to lose a VONCCasino_Royale said:A general election before Brexit seems like a huge strategic mistake by Boris.
Absolutely anything could happen once people turn their attention to it (the opinion polls now mean very little).0 -
In all of this, you have to remember that for an awful lot of people, certainly mainstream Tories, the following holds:
1) We will never get a decent deal from EU unless we are prepared to leave without a deal.
2) "No deal is better than a bad deal" - T May, and so far as I am aware, no-one from her cabinet dissented, incl Hammond etc, made a fuss about that at the time.
This is why, however things play out, Boris is on fairly firm ground so far as his Party is concerned. He is secure in the leadership even if the GE goes awry.0 -
Isn't that pretty much every coastal town in Spain, Greece and Turkey?Byronic said:
It looks ludicrous. Because this is a ludicrous comparison.Chris said:
Put "Jews" into that sentence and see how it looks.Byronic said:
It’s not racist to think “I’d rather not have 10,000 Roma suddenly move to my poor northern suburb, certainly not without asking me first.”Gallowgate said:
This is just nonsense. All the architects of Brexit are very rich and our Pensioners are on the whole, as a generation, wealthy.isam said:
The referendum was a vote on the UK's 21st Century mass immigration policy. Richer people saw it as a good thing as they benefited from a never ending supply of cheap labour, whilst their neighbourhood's remained the same. Poor people saw it as a bad thing as it meant increased competition for job, wages, and state services whilst their neighbourhood's changed completely.Noo said:
Again in English?isam said:The effect on business that tariffs will make is the 2019 version of the effect on low skilled workers that mass immigration from A8 countries will make (2004). Difference being the this one is backed by the poor not the wealthy, who didn't give the former a moments thought, and when the poor complained, they called them racist (while pocketing the profit)
Leave winning meant that richer people face the same pressure on their ability to earn a living as those at the lower end of the scale have been since 2004.
This was racism and xenophobia. Nothing else.
Nor is it xenophobia.
It is normal. It is human nature.
Incidentally, exactly the same applies in reverse. Imagine you live in a humble but quiet Muslim suburb in Turkey. Then 10,000 poor, sweary, beer-swilling Brits decide to suddenly move there, and open pubs?
The Turks would obviously complain. And their complaints would be justified.0 -
All of PB wishes you a speedy recovery ....TheScreamingEagles said:Eating chicken chlorinated causes gonorrhoea.
0 -
I thought his plan was to stall Parliament for the next 10-12 days until prorogation.Byronic said:
Did he have much choice? He must have looked at the numbers and thought: I’m going to lose a VONCCasino_Royale said:A general election before Brexit seems like a huge strategic mistake by Boris.
Absolutely anything could happen once people turn their attention to it (the opinion polls now mean very little).0 -
My bank account likes this.williamglenn said:Of course this could all lead to a Gordon Brown the bottler moment...
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You misunderstand.Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh, that is alright then. Another "stuff you" from one of the increasingly small minority of people that are still trying to convince themselves self harm was a good idea.Charles said:
Sure, they can put their fingers in their earshamiltonace said:
This is the issue dereliction of what duty? The Scots have not voted for Brexit and made it clear they are opposed to no deal. The English Tories are prepared to ignore Parliament but expect the Scots to respect their rules. I rarely agree with Malcolm but in this case is he is right. The Scots can just say and will say no.malcolmg said:
Time the Treaty of Union was revoked, then we do not need to worry about Dictators laws from WestminsterCharles said:
It will be implemented by matter of treaty (Scotland will not be a member of the EU)hamiltonace said:
I agree and in Scotland it is even more complex. I cannot see the Scottish courts allowing Boris to run roughshod over the Scottish parliament. This will create a scenario where there is almost no way to implement no deal in Scotland. The country is almost fully united in not agreeing with the English Tory plan. Even the Scottish tories.eristdoof said:I think a lot is going to develop this week. There are a lot of "known unknowns" and maybe a couple of "unknown unknowns" which will reveal themselves before next Monday. While lots of posters here (including me) like to hypothecate over the different scenarios, I can see that many posts are going to look very outdated very quickly.
Some Scottish and N Irish backstop is my initial thought as where we are heading but who knows
If the SP wishes to not pass any necessary laws that is a dereliction of their duty
But when they turn up to the ports to export stuff and they don’t have the right paperwork...
It’s simply that this is the current policy. If it is implemented then it will be a fact. Once it is a fact then ignoring it won’t make things better,
There’s no “stuff you”0 -
Just noticed Corbyn saying ‘last chance’ in a vaguely northern accent... is this how he usually speaks? Southerners pronounce it ‘larst charnce’ rather than shortened vowels0
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@isam i’m sorry you don’t like hearing the truth.0
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With the opposition vote split 50:50 between the LDs and Lab, the back drop is similar to 1983.Casino_Royale said:A general election before Brexit seems like a huge strategic mistake by Boris.
Absolutely anything could happen once people turn their attention to it (the opinion polls now mean very little).
If I were a Tory leader, with a sensible Brexit policy, I might find that hard to resist.
0 -
Size of,Tory rebellion frightened him?Casino_Royale said:
I thought his plan was to stall Parliament for the next 10-12 days until prorogation.Byronic said:
Did he have much choice? He must have looked at the numbers and thought: I’m going to lose a VONCCasino_Royale said:A general election before Brexit seems like a huge strategic mistake by Boris.
Absolutely anything could happen once people turn their attention to it (the opinion polls now mean very little).
Anyway the BBC is reporting that tomorrow’s vote is being seen as a VONC by HMG. If Boris loses, it’s a GE0 -
That makes no sense. There are fixed routes for calling an election and that isn’t one.Byronic said:
Size of,Tory rebellion frightened him?Casino_Royale said:
I thought his plan was to stall Parliament for the next 10-12 days until prorogation.Byronic said:
Did he have much choice? He must have looked at the numbers and thought: I’m going to lose a VONCCasino_Royale said:A general election before Brexit seems like a huge strategic mistake by Boris.
Absolutely anything could happen once people turn their attention to it (the opinion polls now mean very little).
Anyway the BBC is reporting that tomorrow’s vote is being seen as a VONC by HMG. If Boris loses, it’s a GE0 -
Whatever else he is, he is using above average wealth to purchase above average political clout, which is not in many peoples view a great thing to do, whether rich toff/tory or union boss/lab and whether here or in the USA or anywhere else. It is hard to see how you reconcile stealth bragging about his conduct with the "We must honour the result because democraceeeeee" line of argument.Charles said:
One of them is my father. For the avoidance of doubt he is none of thoseGardenwalker said:
To be fair Charles, you’re now talking to a rump of disaster capitalists, inbred aristocrats and crypto-fascists.Charles said:
If (which I acknowledge is Spartan) you assume that post Brexit the Tories will adopt a more traditional posture then they will come back over time (eg Emma Nicholson is a Tory peer).AlastairMeeks said:One further point. Boris Johnson can threaten anti-no dealers with expulsion. But once they're gone, they're gone. They won't be coming back, they'll be looking for a new home (almost certainly the Lib Dems in the long term).
What has interested me in the conversations I’ve had is the number of donors and supporters who don’t like Boris one bit and yet are backing him because there needs to be resolution
I know you are upset and frustrated. But try not to lash out.0 -
Boris and Corbyn have had a little chat.....AlastairMeeks said:
That makes no sense. There are fixed routes for calling an election and that isn’t one.Byronic said:
Size of,Tory rebellion frightened him?Casino_Royale said:
I thought his plan was to stall Parliament for the next 10-12 days until prorogation.Byronic said:
Did he have much choice? He must have looked at the numbers and thought: I’m going to lose a VONCCasino_Royale said:A general election before Brexit seems like a huge strategic mistake by Boris.
Absolutely anything could happen once people turn their attention to it (the opinion polls now mean very little).
Anyway the BBC is reporting that tomorrow’s vote is being seen as a VONC by HMG. If Boris loses, it’s a GE0 -
Boris is in a bind in a pre brexit election, because if he says the ploy is to get a deal but be ready for no deal, then Farage has just been handed his campaign slogan "Boris sellout, vote BXP to ensure a true brexit isn't forgotten about". If Boris comes out explicitly for no deal then he will face endless questioning about it really means, and he will scare off many mainstream tory voters.0
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Manifestos have a different status - we know they are a programme for government and not bindingTOPPING said:
I have a lot of sympathy for this view. We voted to leave we haven't left. That surely can't be right. There was no "how to" on the ballot paper, as we all know and bemoan so leaving with no deal is perfectly legitimate.Charles said:What “leave” meant was very very clear
It meant leave.
Under Article 50 the U.K. and the EU had 2 years to agree a new set of arrangements
They failed
So we leave without a new set of arrangements
(And please don’t attack me personally. Playing the man not the ball is never pleasant)
However, the 2017 GE changed more than the electoral maths. As we saw in 2015, promises made in a manifesto become null when there is not the mandate, via overall majority, to implement them. Everything is up in the air. Hence the Cons can perfectly well say we are now going to leave with no deal and that would indeed be fulfilling their obligation to govern without an OE (of course they have plenty of those also).
But this whole XX% of MPs voted to leave by supporting their 2017 manifesto is by the same token not true. Those manifestos are now chip paper, rendered irrelevant by events, and each MP is legitimately allowed to decide what they believe in individually or as a group and if that is EUref2, revoke, GE, that is perfectly legitimate.
The difference with the referendum is the people were asked. And gave an instruction.
Our politicians have really, truly, colossally, fucked everything up.
But this needs resolution. And the voters instruction was clear. I only hope that the voters are fierce in their judgement on any MPs who stand again0
