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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235


    The PM, the Foreign Secretary and the Home Secretary voted against it. Indeed it was the PM and Foreign Secretary who sabotaged it - without bothering to even read the final text - and made it unpalatable to the country.

    Forget the actions of others - are people not capable of reading the actual text and deciding for themselves. MPs in particular ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    OllyT said:

    If this parliament is not fit for purpose you are essentially telling the public they voted for the wrong MPs.
    No Im saying sometimes the mix and the numbers dont work. Shit happens. Its not the first time this has happened nor will it be the last.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    "It was purely a Scottish Labour/BBC joint victory"

    LOL

    When the BBC is repatriated south of the border following the tartan victory, viewers north of the border will have endless reruns of Dr Finlay's Casebook and Fyfe Robertson documentaries to look forward to. Can't wait.
    Ah yes the old, Scotland won't be able to watch Dr Who gambit.

    Classic. Economically illiterate but classic.
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    "Aleatory"... had to look it up

    get over yourself
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,557
    edited August 2019

    There are very few parliamentarians to come out of this with any credit. Letwin, Boles, Clarke, Benn, Cooper, Morgan, Stewart perhaps.

    ERG - enough already said
    May govt - enough already said
    Mainstream Tories - failed to either support May or topple her, left her isolated (admittedly her own fault)
    Labour leavers - should have voted for the deal or given an alternative text of what they would vote through
    Labour leadership - utterly cynical
    Lib Dems & Change - failed to support anything in the indicative votes risking no deal instead of soft brexit
    "There are very few parliamentarians to come out of this with any credit. Letwin, Boles, Clarke, Benn, Cooper, Morgan, Stewart perhaps."

    Arseholes the lot of them. The most charitable that can be said is they are Brussel's useful idiots. They have undoubtedly been fighting hard against the UK's best economic interests in achieving the best divorce settlement. They are behaving like somebody determined to keep the dog and are prepared to give up the house, the kids, everything else....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,343

    I see another Brexit loon has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France. What on earth have these people been doing all their lives?
    https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1166765868891725825

    'We need to start'

    'Please do not waste this time'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,083
    edited August 2019

    In 2015 the SNP sent the highest ever proportion of MPs from a single party from a constituent country of the UK in a GE, higher even than Irish nationalist parties in their time. I fully expect that in 20 years time that you'll be posting from Free Wangland comparing subsamples from selected polls with 2015.
    And 2015 was before even the EU referendum let alone a hard Brexit, so so much for Brexit guaranteeing Scottish independence and a majority of Scots voting SNP
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277

    I see another Brexit loon has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France. What on earth have these people been doing all their lives?
    https://twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1166765868891725825

    Dover is the key to whether we are really no dealing or not. There would be massive infrastructure work going on and many thousands of employees being recruited if we were.

    At Portmsouth, the govt offered them 150k to help with no deal prep last week.

    It is simply not serious about no deal, despite all the words and slogans. Someone more eloquent might describe it as an inverted pyramid of piffle.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    SNP on 32% in Shetland last night, still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015 too
    Hint for doing analysis, Orkney and Shetland is a Westminster constituency and different from Shetland which is a Holyrood constituency.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    "Aleatory"... had to look it up

    get over yourself

    Bollocks, every schoolboy knows that Caesar (J) said "jacta est alea."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,083
    Alistair said:

    Hint for doing analysis, Orkney and Shetland is a Westminster constituency and different from Shetland which is a Holyrood constituency.
    So, the same voters in Shetland elect both their MSP and MP
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    Sounds familiar.

    Certainly. Mrs May was pretending because she thought shed get her deal through. Given the change in sentiment Id have more confidence that something has been done in the UK. Nothing Ive seen in the Irish press leaves me with that feeling re RoI.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,269
    What a great idea, we could call it the Single Market.

    Didn't this numpty vote against Mays Deal?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    "Aleatory"... had to look it up

    get over yourself

    It's used for a purpose. I usually stick one unusual word or distinctive phrase in a thread header so I can google it later and find it easily, should I need to. It works well as a filing system for me.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Tories fancy their chances in Twickenham again - now Vince is stepping down next time.....?

    No chance..its remain central there
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    Pulpstar said:

    Forget the actions of others - are people not capable of reading the actual text and deciding for themselves. MPs in particular ?
    I do blame parliamentarians for not reading it and deciding themselves.

    However in a tribal party system if the two Brexit secretaries (and Foreign Secretary) who negotiated the deal resign and say its a traitorous piece of shit, then I am not surprised that opposition MPs were reluctant to support it.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    This is how good are no deal planning is but we’ll solve it by giving some mugs out with a crap slogan on the side
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    edited August 2019
    Foxy said:

    What a great idea, we could call it the Single Market.

    Didn't this numpty vote against Mays Deal?
    do you actually think automotive manufacturers logistics departments havent been working on this for some time ?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538

    I do blame parliamentarians for not reading it and deciding themselves.

    However in a tribal party system if the two Brexit secretaries (and Foreign Secretary) who negotiated the deal resign and say its a traitorous piece of shit, then I am not surprised that opposition MPs were reluctant to support it.
    Yes, because the likes of Lisa Nandy are usually hanging on every word uttered by David Davis, Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I see no evidence of that.

    I am happy for a GONU to extend A50 but not under the divisive Corbyn

    As far as my membership is concerned I remain but only subject to a deal.
    Ken Clarke just said he'd back a gonu lead by Corbyn
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    tlg86 said:

    Yes, because the likes of Lisa Nandy are usually hanging on every word uttered by David Davis, Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab.
    The newspapers and social media do report on their words. Those words influence voters (very few of who read or understand the document). The voters influence the likes of Nandy.

    It is not very complicated to understand political actions have consequences beyond their own parties.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    148grss said:

    When the referendum was run, the default leave position was "we could be like Norway or Switzerland". Talk of leaving the CU were dismissed as project fear. Now the "compromise" position is everything short of just walking away from the table. On the basis of the argument "we could be Norway or Switzerland" Leave won on 52/48, not a particularly resounding victory. Yet every single aspect of negotiation, deal making and positioning by the Conservatives in charge of this withdrawal process has been to go for the Leaviest Leave to be imagined. No, the WA arranged by May was not a compromise. I voted Remain, but would have accepted Norway or Switzerland lite. But this? This is a burn down the house, vulture capitalist, lets become the 51st state Brexit. Bollocks to that.

    Citizen of nowhere, traitor, saboteur. That isn't the language of reconciliation and unity. It was vitriol. And for a change like this we needed someone to try and parse what was possible, not an ideologue.

    Well, the loonies are in charge of the madhouse now.

    That is all true. But the dolts who voted Leave didn't realise that they were writing the loons a blank cheque because there was only the infamous leave or remain option on the ballot paper.

    As I have said, ahem, often (for you once a week pop in-ers) there is a special place in hell reserved for those Leave voters who are now surprised at the current turn of events. Actually such stupidity doesn't merit punishment and it must be bad enough for them to struggle through the requirements of each day without making it worse for them.
  • do you actually think automotive manufacturers logistics departments havent been working on this for some time ?

    Steve Barclay does not htink so.

  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Cicero said:

    I wish I could take you around a few doors... Johnson is toxic waste here in Scotland... In fact the Tory brand is toxic waste, as Ruth Davidson's despair shows all too clearly. I think you will come third here, in a seat you currently hold, and I don't think that is going to be a unique situation either in Scotland or across the UK.

    Johnson is not the anti-Corbyn, he is simply the Tory Corbyn.
    Oddly the toxicity hasn't extended to the voters in Shetland where the Tory vote share crashed by a despair inducing 0.1%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    timmo said:

    No chance..its remain central there
    It's Chuka's chance to establish himself in a safe Lib Dem seat and sweep to the leadership if @HYUFD analysis is correct.

    Well he was right about Boris.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,269
    Alistair said:

    Hint for doing analysis, Orkney and Shetland is a Westminster constituency and different from Shetland which is a Holyrood constituency.
    Worth noting also that Scottish voters seem quite willing to vote different ways in MP and MSP elections.

    Carmichael looks safe to me.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103

    The LibDems will have been mighty relieved by this result as a week ago they were fearing a 2015-type result when they were neck and neck with SNP in Shetland. Essentially they lost the 19% share which Tavish increased their tally by in 2016. I think there was kick-back from the enormous effort the SNP put in. I had thought that if the SNP could marshall all the pro-Indy votes in Shetland they might take it but that didn't happen.

    More representative, I think, of things was the council by-election in East Kilbride last night. Shows SNP continuing to consolidate in Central Belt while SLAB continues its vertiginous decline. Lib Dem vote up considerably and Tories drifting down a little, although still well ahead of pre-Ruth results. Perhaps much as you'd expect given the maelstrom in Westminster.

    Good summation , shows despite all the bluster on here , that the SNP are still going upwards and that after 12 years in Government. Will be a high water mark for any opposition to keep their seats for sure.
    Labour just dead.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,853

    'We need to start'

    'Please do not waste this time'
    How dare you suggest that Barclay has been wasting his time. He’s been working through the Certified Brexit Secretary training modules at a rate of knots and now has a basic understanding of advanced concepts like the importance of cross-channel trade.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716


    Dover is the key to whether we are really no dealing or not. There would be massive infrastructure work going on and many thousands of employees being recruited if we were.

    At Portmsouth, the govt offered them 150k to help with no deal prep last week.

    It is simply not serious about no deal, despite all the words and slogans. Someone more eloquent might describe it as an inverted pyramid of piffle.

    This is all true, but what you can't distinguish between here is a bluff and a bunch of chancers who have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    Steve Barclay does not htink so.

    you expect an MP to understand how things happen ? Good luck.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    Ken Clarke just said he'd back a gonu lead by Corbyn
    Ken is good value when being interviewed, he has a good deal more humour than most MPs. Note he was the only Tory to vote for Labour's alternative Brexit plan.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Dover is the key to whether we are really no dealing or not. There would be massive infrastructure work going on and many thousands of employees being recruited if we were.

    At Portmsouth, the govt offered them 150k to help with no deal prep last week.

    It is simply not serious about no deal, despite all the words and slogans. Someone more eloquent might describe it as an inverted pyramid of piffle.
    There is only one flaw in that argument is that we might actually end up leaving with no deal as a result of stupid commitments made and a paranoid fear of TBP. Or even worse they actually do think they have planned
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    edited August 2019

    Certainly. Mrs May was pretending because she thought shed get her deal through. Given the change in sentiment Id have more confidence that something has been done in the UK. Nothing Ive seen in the Irish press leaves me with that feeling re RoI.

    You have been predicting capitulation and chaos in Ireland for three years now. It has not happened yet. My guess is that the Irish will probably be more willing to suck up what is coming than us. They are certainly far less divided on their government's approach and they have been strongly reminded of the damage the Brits always do in and to Ireland. They will also get substantial help from the EU and from the US.

  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Foxy said:

    Just a little reminder of the NYT map of No Deal Brexit impact:


    So - to answer my own question - and one which noone seems to ask any No Dealer on any interview I've ever heard - No Deal is far worse for us than for anyone else.

    So how is threatening No Deal some sort of marvelous negotiating ploy for Britain?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,269
    Norm said:

    Oddly the toxicity hasn't extended to the voters in Shetland where the Tory vote share crashed by a despair inducing 0.1%
    Tories are 3.6% of Shetland voters, so hard to lose high percentages!
  • you expect an MP to understand how things happen ? Good luck.

    It's not me putting my faith in them to see us through a No Deal Brexit.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Tabman said:

    So - to answer my own question - and one which noone seems to ask any No Dealer on any interview I've ever heard - No Deal is far worse for us than for anyone else.

    So how is threatening No Deal some sort of marvelous negotiating ploy for Britain?
    I think this question has prompted much head scratching in European capitals. Eventually they have concluded that we are led by morons.
  • timmo said:

    No chance..its remain central there
    Much better to target North Norfolk. Eastbourne also interesting with Lloyd withdrawing from the LD whip
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    do you actually think automotive manufacturers logistics departments havent been working on this for some time ?
    Yes to engineer the U.K. out of the supply chain as best they can
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    edited August 2019

    How dare you suggest that Barclay has been wasting his time. He’s been working through the Certified Brexit Secretary training modules at a rate of knots and now has a basic understanding of advanced concepts like the importance of cross-channel trade.

    You can just imagine that light bulb moment: "Blimey, Dominic was right: Britain really is an island off the coast of France. We better talk to the French about this."

  • eekeek Posts: 29,739

    Dover is the key to whether we are really no dealing or not. There would be massive infrastructure work going on and many thousands of employees being recruited if we were.

    At Portmsouth, the govt offered them 150k to help with no deal prep last week.

    It is simply not serious about no deal, despite all the words and slogans. Someone more eloquent might describe it as an inverted pyramid of piffle.
    When was the last time you were in Dover? The port is completely land (well cliff) locked and there is zero space for anything to be done there.

    While it is clear no deal hasn't been prepared for it's also clear that its the default option on October 31st and it is not going to be stopped by Boris
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Notable today that Ken Clarke has said he will probably support a Corbyn led caretaker government, while John Major is taking the government to court. I am liking the nineties era Tories a lot more than I did at the time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    The newspapers and social media do report on their words. Those words influence voters (very few of who read or understand the document). The voters influence the likes of Nandy.

    It is not very complicated to understand political actions have consequences beyond their own parties.
    But there is a fundamental difference between how an MP should approach this from the individual getting in touch. It isn’t about rolling the dice for you, or for me. It isn’t about whether you or I can afford for the gamble not to come off and end up somewhere worse. An MP has to make that call for every person they represent, where there are wildly different views and personal circumstances. And many people across East Renfrewshire simply can not afford for me to take a gamble with their lives that doesn’t pay off.
  • malcolmg said:

    Good summation , shows despite all the bluster on here , that the SNP are still going upwards and that after 12 years in Government. Will be a high water mark for any opposition to keep their seats for sure.
    Labour just dead.
    Morning Malc. I agree with your observation
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,269

    do you actually think automotive manufacturers logistics departments havent been working on this for some time ?
    It does seem strange then that none of them have put the Brexit Secretary in the picture.

    Or possibly, being in posession of the facts has opened Barclays eyes...
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739
    If only a freeport actually offered something we didn't already have in the past (they were called enterprise zones) and their big issues are actually highlighted in the article.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    You have been predicting capitulation and chaos in Ireland for three years now. It has not happened yet. My guess is that the Irish will probably be more willing to suck up what is coming than us. They are certainly far less divided on their government's approach and they have been strongly reminded of the damage the Brits always do in and to Ireland. They will also get substantial help from the EU and from the US.

    You've been predicting the same for the UK - with a drought thrown in :-)

    On the other hand Ive actually been predicting a no deal will hit the RoI harder than the UK. If we get one then we'll see.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    Interesting idea but presumably still bumps up against the DUP.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,402
    Norm said:

    Oddly the toxicity hasn't extended to the voters in Shetland where the Tory vote share crashed by a despair inducing 0.1%
    You're having a laugh... The Tories got 3.6% of the poll. In East Kilbride they were down, and that was really before the impact of Ruth D's exit.

  • eekeek Posts: 29,739

    Notable today that Ken Clarke has said he will probably support a Corbyn led caretaker government, while John Major is taking the government to court. I am liking the nineties era Tories a lot more than I did at the time.

    They are the last generation to see Politics as a duty rather than a career choice.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Tabman said:

    So - to answer my own question - and one which noone seems to ask any No Dealer on any interview I've ever heard - No Deal is far worse for us than for anyone else.

    So how is threatening No Deal some sort of marvelous negotiating ploy for Britain?

    The German car makers and Italian Prosecco producers need us much more than we need them...
  • I hope mps are successful in their campaign to stop no deal, not least because it would have a big boost to the currency just as I buy my US and Canadian dollars on the 9th September for our cruise a few days later, but also it is the right thing to do and I can retain my party membership
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277

    This is all true, but what you can't distinguish between here is a bluff and a bunch of chancers who have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing.
    A week ago I could not distinguish. Today I am happy that its a bluff. They are playing the deliberately playing the pantomine villain to energise their base and force a VONC.

    Prorogation was controversial as it was stopping parliament deciding on Brexit. They could have tried that, they didnt. Instead its the watered down version that still grates enough to get the VONC, but doesnt deliver no deal.

    The only plausible reason for it is the govt do not want no deal.

    There are still accidental routes that would create no deal but for the first time under Boris I am satisfied the govt do not want it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    nichomar said:

    Yes to engineer the U.K. out of the supply chain as best they can
    That just shows how little you understand how the automotive supply chain has developed. The big upside on this is re-shoring.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Alistair said:

    Ah yes the old, Scotland won't be able to watch Dr Who gambit.

    Classic. Economically illiterate but classic.
    There is an argument which has also been made on pb that BBC Scotland's output is not Scottish enough. You mention Dr Who, which is made in Wales but has no distinctly Welsh content. For some nationalists, it is a matter of more Taggart and Rebus, not access to Inspector Morse. The reality, as you imply, is not much will change.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538
    Scott_P said:
    Will they be asking him about his own prorogation?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    That just shows how little you understand how the automotive supply chain has developed. The big upside on this is re-shoring.

    The supply chains will not be re-shored before the first car plants close
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,277
    eek said:

    When was the last time you were in Dover? The port is completely land (well cliff) locked and there is zero space for anything to be done there.

    While it is clear no deal hasn't been prepared for it's also clear that its the default option on October 31st and it is not going to be stopped by Boris
    Could we not build an M2a and M20a? More than 3 roads leading out of the town?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,557
    Surely the DUP could paint free port status for the whole of NI as a big win?
  • PloppikinsPloppikins Posts: 126
    I'm pretty sure this not the first time, and it will not be the last, someone on here has cried some version of "BreXiT iS DeaD !1!" And yet we march on...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    Tabman said:

    So - to answer my own question - and one which noone seems to ask any No Dealer on any interview I've ever heard - No Deal is far worse for us than for anyone else.

    So how is threatening No Deal some sort of marvelous negotiating ploy for Britain?
    It is, like everything else from Brexiters, a fail. Threatening No Deal will on the one hand frighten the EU so much that they will come begging to the negotiating table backstop in hand, while on the other hand every government minister asked tells us that No Deal will be no problem for the UK and we'll sail on untroubled after October 31st.

    No one will say, not even in the rarefied cloisters of PB, not even such luminaries of leave as @MarqueeMark, @Luckyguy1983, or any other of the Leave inclined intellectual titans, which of these is actually the case.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    Foxy said:

    It does seem strange then that none of them have put the Brexit Secretary in the picture.

    Or possibly, being in posession of the facts has opened Barclays eyes...
    car manufacturers asking govt to make things easier for them isnt the same as car manufacturers doing nothing.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,853

    That just shows how little you understand how the automotive supply chain has developed. The big upside on this is re-shoring.
    Big upside?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    eek said:

    If only a freeport actually offered something we didn't already have in the past (they were called enterprise zones) and their big issues are actually highlighted in the article.
    hey take it up with The Irish Times, Im simply the messenger.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,483


    Much better to target North Norfolk. Eastbourne also interesting with Lloyd withdrawing from the LD whip

    Oh dear, it's still amateur hour on here, I see.

    Stephen Lloyd remains a member of the LDs and will, I'm sure, fight the Eastbourne seat at the next GE. On all non-Brexit matters, he is fully supportive of the Party, He made a pledge to his constituents to support the WA and since the LDs are opposed he had no option but to leave the group at Westminster and sit as an independent taking no whip.

    I presume the commitment does not extend to a No Deal Brexit so he will be with the rest of the LD Party in opposing that, IF, however, the WA is presented again to the Commons, I would expect him to support it.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1167360034537377792

    He's got some heavyweight advice as well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,269
    Tabman said:

    So - to answer my own question - and one which noone seems to ask any No Dealer on any interview I've ever heard - No Deal is far worse for us than for anyone else.

    So how is threatening No Deal some sort of marvelous negotiating ploy for Britain?
    The other noteworthy thing is that most of Europe is unaffected. Post No Deal trade negotiators need their unanimous approval.

    Apart from Ireland, which is less affected then most of England, no part of the Continental EU is as badly affected as the least affected part of the UK.

    The full article from the NYT is here:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/07/world/europe/brexit-impact-on-european-union.html
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    A week ago I could not distinguish. Today I am happy that its a bluff. They are playing the deliberately playing the pantomine villain to energise their base and force a VONC.

    Prorogation was controversial as it was stopping parliament deciding on Brexit. They could have tried that, they didnt. Instead its the watered down version that still grates enough to get the VONC, but doesnt deliver no deal.

    The only plausible reason for it is the govt do not want no deal.

    There are still accidental routes that would create no deal but for the first time under Boris I am satisfied the govt do not want it.
    Farage has twigged this as well which is why he has demanded that every Tory candidate must run on a no deal ticket otherwise he will contest every seat. Johnson will then be caught between having to fall into line or risk running on deal or no deal it was the bastard MPs that stopped me manifesto. I’m not sure how that would play out but he clearly wants to be stopped from leaving no deal.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I hope mps are successful in their campaign to stop no deal, not least because it would have a big boost to the currency just as I buy my US and Canadian dollars on the 9th September for our cruise a few days later, but also it is the right thing to do and I can retain my party membership

    LOL
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting idea but presumably still bumps up against the DUP.
    if it gives NI some trading advantages all parties will probably say yes.

    Its actually astounding that the local MLAs havent the brains to turn the current impasse to their advantage.But theyd rather sit in the trenhes and shoot at eachother.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,332
    On topic, great memories. I used to love the Lone Wolf adventure books when I was younger.

    I had a pencil where I kept a score of my "Kai" as I progressed through each one. It was never high enough and I regularly got defeated in hard battles, and had to start again!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,483
    Mr. Nichomar, had we taken no deal more seriously from the start (both in terms of contingency planning and negotiating) we'd be in a better situation.

    It's fitting for the whole comedy of errors that it was abandoned early on in negotiating, planning wasn't done for fear of scaring the horses (similar to the approach taken by Clinton in battlefield states and the British commanders of Singapore in WWII), and is now being resurrected with a few weeks to go and very little time to mitigate any impact.

    Maybe a deal will still happen. But right now the political class has shown the collective wisdom and judgement the Romans displayed when handling the Cimbri.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,332
    TOPPING said:

    LOL
    Hilarious.
  • TOPPING said:

    LOL
    I did say it with tongue in cheek !!!!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,853

    if it gives NI some trading advantages all parties will probably say yes.

    Its actually astounding that the local MLAs havent the brains to turn the current impasse to their advantage.But theyd rather sit in the trenhes and shoot at eachother.
    I don’t think you read it properly. He’s just talking about relabelling the original NI-only backstop with a sexy name.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    Scott_P said:

    The supply chains will not be re-shored before the first car plants close
    I doubt you have ever moved moved tooling across borders. It happens all the time. The issue will be capacity in UK factories.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,983
    OllyT said:

    That is the tragedy of the situation. History is going to show that Coirbyn enabled everything that is now happening. Johnson would be terrified of an election if Labour had the right leader
    Quite right. The Tories only imposed Johnson upon us for laughs, safe in the knowledge that Corbyn is a political leper. Let's destroy both parties. We will not be made mock of!
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739
    edited August 2019

    hey take it up with The Irish Times, Im simply the messenger.
    There is no need - it's a better article than the Tees Valley FreePort report itself which has obvious flaws that the mayor won't acknowledge - the main one being we could do this now and it really wouldn't be any different.

    The mayor was happy talking to me until I pointed out I was an economist by training and my wife is a town planner and her Master's thesis was on the impact of enterprise zones on the surrounding areas. So when I stated that enterprise zones merely moved local industry into the zone from the surrounding towns it was with empirical evidence rather than anecdotes.

  • Scott_P said:
    Sky not reported it yet.

    But hardly surprising
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    I don’t think you read it properly. He’s just talking about relabelling the original NI-only backstop with a sexy name.
    how else do you think all sides are going to climb down ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I did say it with tongue in cheek !!!!
    Big G I hope you and Mrs Big G have a fantastic time away. Don't spend too much time on PB!
  • Scott_P said:
    That would be a very smart move.....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited August 2019
    Scott_P said:
    LOL! None of these legal actions are going anywhere.

    If it wasn't legally watertight for Boris to Progogue Parliament for a Queens Speech HMQ wouldn't have agreed to it (and the PM wouldn't have dared ask her)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited August 2019

    That would be a very smart move.....
    Is it? Surely Boris can then go for a GE with the look, the EU won't let us leave. It reinforces the negative stereotype of the EU.

    Far better to let the UK parliament block no deal and let Boris or those blocking no-deal appear the bad guys (depending on which side of the argument you are on).
This discussion has been closed.