If you want to change something in a negotiation / meeting people come with ideas and possible plans. Boris hasn't come up with ideas / plans he's just saying we can't have this and doesn't provide any ways out of the mess.
Which is why I read that letter exactly as that EU diplomat does..
You are missing the point.
I’m not talking about the contents of the letter.
I’m talking about the EU’s attitude to Brexit as if it is just a malignancy in the Tory party.
You're right that it should trigger some introspection on the EU's part. Did they indulge British exceptionalism for too long? Did offering opt-outs just fuel a sense that being fully out would be a desirable state? Did it nurture a sense that Britain could dictate the terms of its membership to the rest and that threatening to leave altogether would give it leverage?
There's lots for them to think about.
If such a No Compromise position had been adopted by the EU it would have led to us leaving sooner rather than later.
If, for example, membership of the Euro had been compulsory to remain in the EU in, say, 2002 to ratify the Nice Treaty (with the EU constitution on the horizon too at the time) I expect the UK would have voted to Leave by a clear margin, albeit I expect it would have opted at that stage to remain in the Single Market.
If Blair had taken us into the whole lot without a referendum we’d be facing even deeper polarisation and resentment now.
If Major had held a referendum on Maastricht without any opt-outs, I think he'd have won. The nascent loony wing headed by Thatcher sans marbles would have lost.
The problem for modern Eurosceptics like you is that it always boils down to a culture war against Blair.
But, matters wouldn’t have ended there. The fact we might be formally committed to joining the Euro at some stage wouldn’t have made it politically practicable to do so and we’d have experienced even greater migration challenges with Schengen.
My euroscepticism, as for many, predates Blair. The fact that European federalism became very stark correlated with the time he was in office, and he was a passive advocate for it, but I had and have no interest in a culture war against him personally.
Tory ministers get paid to repeat this idiotic lie. Whats your excuse?
The Good Friday Agreement - passed by both countries by BINDING referenda - is not undemocratic. The Backstop preserves the GFA. To continue to parrot "undemocratic" baout something democratic demonstrates the kind of small-minded stupidity this country is increasingly good at.
Its neither idiotic nor a lie. It is the truth. One I've been consistently posting here for a year while the line to take by everyone else was the WA was a good compromise - it is not.
We had an article about Brexit Myths yesterday. Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that the backstop preserves the GFA. From the Irish and Nationalist side it does maybe, but from the unionist side it does not an it is undemocratic. 5/6 unionists oppose it including Lord Trimble who signed the GFA on behalf of unionists.
Until there is a compromise that respects both communities there is no acceptable compromise.
You don’t get to 58% support for the backstop in Northern Ireland solely with nationalist votes.
No you get it with 98% support for nationalists and about 15% support for unionists.
Tory ministers get paid to repeat this idiotic lie. Whats your excuse?
The Good Friday Agreement - passed by both countries by BINDING referenda - is not undemocratic. The Backstop preserves the GFA. To continue to parrot "undemocratic" baout something democratic demonstrates the kind of small-minded stupidity this country is increasingly good at.
Its neither idiotic nor a lie. It is the truth. One I've been consistently posting here for a year while the line to take by everyone else was the WA was a good compromise - it is not.
We had an article about Brexit Myths yesterday. Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that the backstop preserves the GFA. From the Irish and Nationalist side it does maybe, but from the unionist side it does not an it is undemocratic. 5/6 unionists oppose it including Lord Trimble who signed the GFA on behalf of unionists.
Until there is a compromise that respects both communities there is no acceptable compromise.
You don’t get to 58% support for the backstop in Northern Ireland solely with nationalist votes.
No you get it with 98% support for nationalists and about 15% support for unionists.
Do you think 15% represents a community?
Your breakdown of votes suggests a Nationalist majority in NI.
Tory ministers get paid to repeat this idiotic lie. Whats your excuse?
The Good Friday Agreement - passed by both countries by BINDING referenda - is not undemocratic. The Backstop preserves the GFA. To continue to parrot "undemocratic" baout something democratic demonstrates the kind of small-minded stupidity this country is increasingly good at.
Its neither idiotic nor a lie. It is the truth. One I've been consistently posting here for a year while the line to take by everyone else was the WA was a good compromise - it is not.
We had an article about Brexit Myths yesterday. Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that the backstop preserves the GFA. From the Irish and Nationalist side it does maybe, but from the unionist side it does not an it is undemocratic. 5/6 unionists oppose it including Lord Trimble who signed the GFA on behalf of unionists.
Until there is a compromise that respects both communities there is no acceptable compromise.
You don’t get to 58% support for the backstop in Northern Ireland solely with nationalist votes.
No you get it with 98% support for nationalists and about 15% support for unionists.
Do you think 15% represents a community?
On that reasoning both NI and Scotland should stay in the EU!
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
We still have not got past the stage of negotiating with ourselves...the letter, and indeed, Boris' trip, are entirely for domestic consumption.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
New CNN poll, Biden back up, Sanders still holding up, Warren up but not that much, Kamala disappearing, KLOBUCHAR sadly still not getting the recognition she deserves, Williamson in communion with the number zero on the astral plane:
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Oh God, we're reverting to the "loose lips sink Brexits" phase that I thought we'd outgrown two years ago. It's like dealing with amnesiac toddlers.`
Talking to Japan today. What's their flag again? Red and White. Wear red and white. Have pic of me and dog. God, it's not the Japanese who eat dogs is it?! No? Phew. Have espresso machine in case I get brain fog.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
I don't agree. He has put his offer to the EU and made it very public.
As Sky EU correspondent has just said the EU are concerned about the blame game and of course any outright rejection will just firm up Boris's position
This has some way to run and as Boris wants to stay PM, how he brings a deal or otherwise together will be fascinating
Of course he is hugely assisted by a divided remain group and the idiotic position of Corbyn.
Talking to Japan today. What's their flag again? Red and White. Wear red and white. Have pic of me and dog. God, it's not the Japanese who eat dogs is it?! No? Phew. Have espresso machine in case I get brain fog.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Oh God, we're reverting to the "loose lips sink Brexits" phase that I thought we'd outgrown two years ago. It's like dealing with amnesiac toddlers.`
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
Talking to Japan today. What's their flag again? Red and White. Wear red and white. Have pic of me and dog. God, it's not the Japanese who eat dogs is it?! No? Phew. Have espresso machine in case I get brain fog.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I think Alanbrooke meant 5 minutes before midnight
Talking to Japan today. What's their flag again? Red and White. Wear red and white. Have pic of me and dog. God, it's not the Japanese who eat dogs is it?! No? Phew. Have espresso machine in case I get brain fog.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I think Alanbrooke meant 5 minutes before midnight
no I meant past. On contoversial issues the EU breaks all its self imposed time limits and stretches things when it suits. Hence five minutes past.
If they want to move theyll make time if they dont they wont.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I think Alanbrooke meant 5 minutes before midnight
Don't they stop the clock sometimes?
Brexiteers don't always mean what they say, or at least understand what they're saying.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I think Alanbrooke meant 5 minutes before midnight
Don't they stop the clock sometimes?
Brexiteers don't always mean what they say, or at least understand what they're saying.
lol
stopping a clock doesnt mean you stop time, it just means youre pretending in order to make it look nice.
DUP has come out with a 'cake and eat it' statement. Inter alia 'The DUP wants to see a negotiated and orderly exit from the European Union based on no hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and no internal barriers to trade within the United Kingdom.'
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
The argument now seems to be one of:-
The EU is made up of treaties which cannot be ignored The EU will ignore what the treaty says (your viewpoint)
The EU will happily extend again if we ask for it but they are not bluffing about the WA being the only deal available. Boris can get changes to the PD but he hasn't asked for that.
I've critisiced both sides heavily here but on the EU not bluffing point the remainers are correct.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
The argument now seems to be one of:-
The EU is made up of treaties which cannot be ignored The EU will ignore what the treaty says (your viewpoint)
Sadly I don't think the latter is true.
No. my view is if two sides want a deal they have to agree. Economically there's not much upside short term for either if they dont. If ecoomics is the key factor we will have a game of chicken into October then one or both parties will have to move.
If economics is not the the key factor UK ( sovereignty ), EU ( the project ) then were out with no deal.
I dont really think its worth getting that worked up about atm. There's a long way to go before we know either way.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
At 23:01 GMT on October 31st we will be a third country.
It's scary how few people can even get the basics right.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
Excellent! Always nice to have an expert on board. Now that you're here, let me see if I understand your prediction correctly. You predict that a compromise will be proposed by somebody and that the UK PM and the European Council will accept it before 11pm UK time on October 31st. Yes? Just so we can judge the depth of your expertise, you understand...
Can anyone find this story on the ONS website? Surely one of the worst websites on the planet. If they were trying to be obscurantist they would never have succeeded to this extent.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
Isn’t it about time you mentioned BMW or the Prosecco manufacturers?
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
Excellent! Always nice to have an expert on board. Now that you're here, let me see if I understand your prediction correctly. You predict that a compromise will be proposed by somebody and that the UK PM and the European Council will accept it before 11pm UK time on October 31st. Yes? Just so we can judge the depth of your expertise, you understand...
It’s definitely poor form to rejoice in the suffering of others, but I think a lot of us will be making a big exception for the cheating convict Steve Smith.
If he were a rugby player or a racing driver, he’d be sidelined for three weeks minimum. Just saying...
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
Isn’t it about time you mentioned BMW or the Prosecco manufacturers?
Can anyone find this story on the ONS website? Surely one of the worst websites on the planet. If they were trying to be obscurantist they would never have succeeded to this extent.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
At 23:01 GMT on October 31st we will be a third country.
It's scary how few people can even get the basics right.
What’s more scary is that very few people know what being a third country means.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
So long as people remember there's an hour's time difference. Probably a mistake to wait until five past one in the morning.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
Imagine being so fragile that you can't admit that you slightly misspoke a metaphor and coming up with this drivel which clearly wasn't what you originally meant.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
The argument now seems to be one of:-
The EU is made up of treaties which cannot be ignored The EU will ignore what the treaty says (your viewpoint)
Sadly I don't think the latter is true.
No. my view is if two sides want a deal they have to agree. Economically there's not much upside short term for either if they dont. If ecoomics is the key factor we will have a game of chicken into October then one or both parties will have to move.
If economics is not the the key factor UK ( sovereignty ), EU ( the project ) then were out with no deal.
I dont really think its worth getting that worked up about atm. There's a long way to go before we know either way.
So basically we are out as sovereignty (or the bastardised version of it the Tory party want) trumps economics.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
I don't agree. He has put his offer to the EU and made it very public.
As Sky EU correspondent has just said the EU are concerned about the blame game and of course any outright rejection will just firm up Boris's position
This has some way to run and as Boris wants to stay PM, how he brings a deal or otherwise together will be fascinating
Of course he is hugely assisted by a divided remain group and the idiotic position of Corbyn.
It’s not an offer. There is nothing capable of being agreed to.
Can anyone find this story on the ONS website? Surely one of the worst websites on the planet. If they were trying to be obscurantist they would never have succeeded to this extent.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
Imagine being so fragile that you can't admit that you slightly misspoke a metaphor and coming up with this drivel which clearly wasn't what you originally meant.
I was quite deliberate in what I said. That you dont agree with it is your view.
On topic I didn't actually know N Irish people could get an Eire passport. Gosh
And the whole border issue in my memory at least did not come up at all in the referendum campaign.
If Boris gets a majority without needing the DUP will he let N Ireland go? Who will care when push comes to shove? (I would, but that's irrelevant, would enough people care enough to stop it?)
On topic I didn't actually know N Irish people could get an Eire passport. Gosh
And the whole border issue in my memory at least did not come up at all in the referendum campaign.
If Boris gets a majority without needing the DUP will he let N Ireland go? Who will care when push comes to shove? (I would, but that's irrelevant, would enough people care enough to stop it?)
you can pick up an application form in any NI post office.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
At 23:01 GMT on October 31st we will be a third country.
It's scary how few people can even get the basics right.
We’re talking about @Alanbrooke’s mistaken metaphor. Do try to keep up.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
yeah, it seems you are the one having difficulty with a metaphor.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
The argument now seems to be one of:-
The EU is made up of treaties which cannot be ignored The EU will ignore what the treaty says (your viewpoint)
Sadly I don't think the latter is true.
No. my view is if two sides want a deal they have to agree. Economically there's not much upside short term for either if they dont. If ecoomics is the key factor we will have a game of chicken into October then one or both parties will have to move.
If economics is not the the key factor UK ( sovereignty ), EU ( the project ) then were out with no deal.
I dont really think its worth getting that worked up about atm. There's a long way to go before we know either way.
So basically we are out as sovereignty (or the bastardised version of it the Tory party want) trumps economics.
theres a fair chance of it but both sides have their own version of the non eonomic argument. Now all were discussing is who is finger pointing at who.
Talking to Japan today. What's their flag again? Red and White. Wear red and white. Have pic of me and dog. God, it's not the Japanese who eat dogs is it?! No? Phew. Have espresso machine in case I get brain fog.
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
At five minutes past midnight we will be a third country and Article 50 will no longer apply. It’s blank sheet time.
At 23:01 GMT on October 31st we will be a third country.
It's scary how few people can even get the basics right.
What’s more scary is that very few people know what being a third country means.
I know a song about it:
I've never seen you look like this without a reason Another promise fallen through Another season passes by you I never took the smile away from anybody's face And that's a desperate way to look for someone who is still a child
In a third country dreams stay with you Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside Stay alive
I thought that pain and truth were things that really mattered But you can't stay here with every single hope you had shattered I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime
In a third country dreams stay with you Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside Stay alive
On topic I didn't actually know N Irish people could get an Eire passport. Gosh
And the whole border issue in my memory at least did not come up at all in the referendum campaign.
If Boris gets a majority without needing the DUP will he let N Ireland go? Who will care when push comes to shove? (I would, but that's irrelevant, would enough people care enough to stop it?)
If Boris gets a Tory majority is might try again with the Withdrawal Agreement but of course he will not let Northern Ireland go, he is a unionist and can ignore Sinn Fein as Stormont is suspended and the DUP still have most seats in Northern Ireland and he will
It’s definitely poor form to rejoice in the suffering of others, but I think a lot of us will be making a big exception for the cheating convict Steve Smith.
If he were a rugby player or a racing driver, he’d be sidelined for three weeks minimum. Just saying...
I had hoped that England fans wouldn't be rejoicing in taking the Tonya Harding route to winning the Ashes.
A very very good point. They are essentially admitting they want alternative arrangements but do not think they can figure something out in the transition period...and yet expect to come up with it in a month.
If they were being honest in intent. Which describing as undemocratic is something he voted for shows they are not.
No it isn't. The problem isn't finding alternative arrangements, it's that it would be entirely within the EU's power to reject whichever arrangements were proposed for whichever reason they wanted.
Unfortunate but inconsequential as the BBC's misleadingly-labelled graph of the results could not by definition have affected the election itself.
I didn't realise there was a suggestion that it could. I'd have thought misleading the public was serious enough.
It is like a LibDem bar chart, whether or not it was intended as such.
Both Conservative and Labour are shown. Guido's mate seems to be saying the Conservative vote should not be shown separately but should have been added in to "no deal Brexit" which is also wrong. The underlying problem is the "no deal" part is hidden in the small print.
Unfortunate but inconsequential as the BBC's misleadingly-labelled graph of the results could not by definition have affected the election itself.
I didn't realise there was a suggestion that it could. I'd have thought misleading the public was serious enough.
It is like a LibDem bar chart, whether or not it was intended as such.
Both Conservative and Labour are shown. Guido's mate seems to be saying the Conservative vote should not be shown separately but should have been added in to "no deal Brexit" which is also wrong. The underlying problem is the "no deal" part is hidden in the small print.
"No deal Brexit"? That's why the BBC have admitted they got this wrong. They should have labelled it as such (though Brexit Party and Ukip may have argued that that was unfair on them).
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
Excellent! Always nice to have an expert on board. Now that you're here, let me see if I understand your prediction correctly. You predict that a compromise will be proposed by somebody and that the UK PM and the European Council will accept it before 11pm UK time on October 31st. Yes? Just so we can judge the depth of your expertise, you understand...
On this occasion, that's entirely fair comment. Boris Johnson would have done better not to write the letter if he had no proposal (sensible or otherwise) to make.
hmmm
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
Five minutes past midnight would be five minutes too late. You don’t seem to know how the metaphor works.
I know how the EU works thats all that matters.
Excellent! Always nice to have an expert on board. Now that you're here, let me see if I understand your prediction correctly. You predict that a compromise will be proposed by somebody and that the UK PM and the European Council will accept it before 11pm UK time on October 31st. Yes? Just so we can judge the depth of your expertise, you understand...
Can anyone find this story on the ONS website? Surely one of the worst websites on the planet. If they were trying to be obscurantist they would never have succeeded to this extent.
Thanks. I still resist being on Twitter. Is it really too much to ask for the ONS to have a news page with their latest releases ?
Anyway the driving force of these changes up to 2016 are significant underestimates of software, a trend they note increases over time. In light of that it is very likely that we will get increases post 2016 in due course.
Can anyone find this story on the ONS website? Surely one of the worst websites on the planet. If they were trying to be obscurantist they would never have succeeded to this extent.
Thanks. I still resist being on Twitter. Is it really too much to ask for the ONS to have a news page with their latest releases ?
Anyway the driving force of these changes up to 2016 are significant underestimates of software, a trend they note increases over time. In light of that it is very likely that we will get increases post 2016 in due course.
which probably means the dip in GDP last quarter will disappear with revisions.
HMG should be putting more money into ONS to get sensible statistics.
Can anyone find this story on the ONS website? Surely one of the worst websites on the planet. If they were trying to be obscurantist they would never have succeeded to this extent.
Thanks. I still resist being on Twitter. Is it really too much to ask for the ONS to have a news page with their latest releases ?
Anyway the driving force of these changes up to 2016 are significant underestimates of software, a trend they note increases over time. In light of that it is very likely that we will get increases post 2016 in due course.
which probably means the dip in GDP last quarter will disappear with revisions.
HMG should be putting more money into ONS to get sensible statistics.
I don't think so. The one thing I'm noticing locally is a lack of available spare cash..
If the EU won't remove the undemocratic backstop then roll on No Deal and lets see what happens to the border then.
What is the "vital insurancy policy" that kicks in on a No Deal exit? I guess we will see soon.
If the Troubles don't restart and alternative arrangements are found then the backstop was not so much insurance but the codswallop we always said it was.
If the Troubles do restart that will be a tragedy and both sides will need to come together in a spirit of mutual co-operation and respect to bring them to an end and find a post-Brexit alternative to the GFA.
Can anyone find this story on the ONS website? Surely one of the worst websites on the planet. If they were trying to be obscurantist they would never have succeeded to this extent.
She has gone up in my estimation..she has an Old English Sheepdog
She has a picture of a old english sheepdog...
My boss used to have one. The valet manager at the car dealership in Perth drove to Edinburgh to meet the animal that had done that to the inside of a car.
Comments
https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1163757521582116864?s=20
https://twitter.com/ReutersUK/status/1163761437275295744?s=20
My euroscepticism, as for many, predates Blair. The fact that European federalism became very stark correlated with the time he was in office, and he was a passive advocate for it, but I had and have no interest in a culture war against him personally.
For a craven arse licker like Varadkar that’s quite an achievement.
https://twitter.com/iamamoum/status/1010051471595982854?s=20
Not too sure if this will work but it make me laugh
Mike
Do you think 15% represents a community?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ePx61TkXKY
not convinced.
anything he proposes would be shot down at this stage. He hasnt met Macron or Merkel yet and the EU does all its deals at five minutes past midnight. If he has anything to say ( and frankly who knows ) best leave it until later.
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/08/19/rel9a.-.democrats.2020.pdf
Talking to Japan today.
What's their flag again?
Red and White.
Wear red and white.
Have pic of me and dog.
God, it's not the Japanese who eat dogs is it?!
No? Phew.
Have espresso machine in case I get brain fog.
*12 espressos later*
Do not, DO NOT, speak in cod oriental accent!!!
https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1163746041117794306?s=20
As Sky EU correspondent has just said the EU are concerned about the blame game and of course any outright rejection will just firm up Boris's position
This has some way to run and as Boris wants to stay PM, how he brings a deal or otherwise together will be fascinating
Of course he is hugely assisted by a divided remain group and the idiotic position of Corbyn.
If they want to move theyll make time if they dont they wont.
Brexiteers don't always mean what they say, or at least understand what they're saying.
stopping a clock doesnt mean you stop time, it just means youre pretending in order to make it look nice.
If the E U wants to change a deal it will stretch the time if it does not it wont.
Ive hept that sentence monosyllabic to help you
The EU is made up of treaties which cannot be ignored
The EU will ignore what the treaty says (your viewpoint)
Sadly I don't think the latter is true.
I've critisiced both sides heavily here but on the EU not bluffing point the remainers are correct.
Just saying.
If economics is not the the key factor UK ( sovereignty ), EU ( the project ) then were out with no deal.
I dont really think its worth getting that worked up about atm. There's a long way to go before we know either way.
It's scary how few people can even get the basics right.
If he were a rugby player or a racing driver, he’d be sidelined for three weeks minimum. Just saying...
I dont drive one and I dont like prosecco
https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1163730129115394049
And the whole border issue in my memory at least did not come up at all in the referendum campaign.
If Boris gets a majority without needing the DUP will he let N Ireland go? Who will care when push comes to shove? (I would, but that's irrelevant, would enough people care enough to stop it?)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49402840
Boris bounce seems to have a puncture.
I've never seen you look like this without a reason
Another promise fallen through
Another season passes by you
I never took the smile away from anybody's face
And that's a desperate way to look for someone who is still a child
In a third country dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside
Stay alive
I thought that pain and truth were things that really mattered
But you can't stay here with every single hope you had shattered
I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert
But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime
In a third country dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside
Stay alive
Especially since you're still one match down.
Both Conservative and Labour are shown. Guido's mate seems to be saying the Conservative vote should not be shown separately but should have been added in to "no deal Brexit" which is also wrong. The underlying problem is the "no deal" part is hidden in the small print.
That the reaction to Boris’ ill-considered letter is somewhat different this time suggests the plates are shifting.
Anyway the driving force of these changes up to 2016 are significant underestimates of software, a trend they note increases over time. In light of that it is very likely that we will get increases post 2016 in due course.
Oh I know - anyone with 25g of sense.
HMG should be putting more money into ONS to get sensible statistics.
that's flemish humour
What is the "vital insurancy policy" that kicks in on a No Deal exit? I guess we will see soon.
If the Troubles don't restart and alternative arrangements are found then the backstop was not so much insurance but the codswallop we always said it was.
If the Troubles do restart that will be a tragedy and both sides will need to come together in a spirit of mutual co-operation and respect to bring them to an end and find a post-Brexit alternative to the GFA.
My boss used to have one. The valet manager at the car dealership in Perth drove to Edinburgh to meet the animal that had done that to the inside of a car.