Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
If you think that anyone who doesn't speak the usual RP is a "moron" then that says more about you than it does about them. Why don't you try listening to what they are saying and using that to gauge their intelligence? I usually go the other way and assume that if you've managed to get on Radio 4 despite sounding working class then I can probably add about 20 points to your IQ, and if you talk with the same old home counties public school accent as everyone else on the radio then you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
It's got nothing to do with RP. It's about confected accents that Labour MPs seem to be unusually good at.
Faiza Sheheen isn't even an MP. Isn't she the PPC for IDS's seat? And I believe she talks the way she does because that is how she talks.
There's a lot of Labour MPs with some very contrived working class/middle class accents. That's all I know.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionists don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
You seem to be the self-appointed accent police, that's why. I just wondered which particularly accents fell within the realm of your approval. Scots are OK as is RP. Any others, or is that it?
I'm not the accent police. I'm just saying that Labour MPs have a habit of having contrived accents.
If no-body else has noticed this phenomenon I withdraw.
Labour MPs have accents from their home regions. Unlike Tory MPs, who talk in a condescending, sneering manner, that they've learnt at their posho schools (along with other things prevalent in single-gender environments).
Yep. Heard RLB and Pidcock being criticised for their accents. Since they are from Salford and North Shields, they are pretty well spoken. At home they'd be described as posh.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
It's got nothing to do with RP. It's about confected accents that Labour MPs seem to be unusually good at.
Faiza Sheheen isn't even an MP. Isn't she the PPC for IDS's seat? And I believe she talks the way she does because that is how she talks.
There's a lot of Labour MPs with some very contrived working class/middle class accents. That's all I know.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionist don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
Is that softened to a disney one Briskin
Nope. English people can tell I'm Scottish. Scottish people often ask. Make of that what you will.
A couple of months living in England will make you lose your accent right enough
Not if you're a weegie.
But I'm not and I did live in England for over 5 years so my accent softened. Ms Brisk went to private school in Aberdeen so also has a somewhat softened accent so we make the perfect couple
Briskin, I lived years in England, years in USA and lots of time in other European countries, I did not lose my accent. You have to want to lose it, sheena Eastonesque
Yes, I did want to soften it - so that I could be more understood. I believe George Bernard Shaw did the same kind of thing and even wrote a famous play/film about it.
My accent is what it is. (probably not Scottish enough for your tastes)
Do you sound like Michael Gove?
No - Gove has a much posher accent than me or Ms Brisk.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
It's got nothing to do with RP. It's about confected accents that Labour MPs seem to be unusually good at.
Faiza Sheheen isn't even an MP. Isn't she the PPC for IDS's seat? And I believe she talks the way she does because that is how she talks.
There's a lot of Labour MPs with some very contrived working class/middle class accents. That's all I know.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionist don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
Is that softened to a disney one Briskin
Nope. English people can tell I'm Scottish. Scottish people often ask. Make of that what you will.
A couple of months living in England will make you lose your accent right enough
Not if you're a weegie.
But I'm not and I did live in England for over 5 years so my accent softened. Ms Brisk went to private school in Aberdeen so also has a somewhat softened accent so we make the perfect couple
Briskin, I lived years in England, years in USA and lots of time in other European countries, I did not lose my accent. You have to want to lose it, sheena Eastonesque
Yes, I did want to soften it - so that I could be more understood. I believe George Bernard Shaw did the same kind of thing and even wrote a famous play/film about it.
My accent is what it is. (probably not Scottish enough for your tastes)
Not at all , whilst I have a strong Ayrshire accent I can speak the Queens English when it suits, my wife , daughter and grandchildren all have soft accents.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
See also: Tony Blair
Another one who sounded fake and it turned out he was. The difference between him and FS is that she's chosen one off the shelf which happens to be the same one nearly all newish Labour women have chosen so she sounds both fake and a clone.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionist don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
Is that softened to a disney one Briskin
Nope. English people can tell I'm Scottish. Scottish people often ask. Make of that what you will.
A couple of months living in England will make you lose your accent right enough
Not if you're a weegie.
But I'm not and I did live in England for over 5 years so my accent softened. Ms Brisk went to private school in Aberdeen so also has a somewhat softened accent so we make the perfect couple
Briskin, I lived years in England, years in USA and lots of time in other European countries, I did not lose my accent. You have to want to lose it, sheena Eastonesque
Yes, I did want to soften it - so that I could be more understood. I believe George Bernard Shaw did the same kind of thing and even wrote a famous play/film about it.
My accent is what it is. (probably not Scottish enough for your tastes)
Do you sound like Michael Gove?
No - Gove has a much posher accent than me or Ms Brisk.
Nobody would mistake Gove's accent as being Scottish.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionist don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
Is that softened to a disney one Briskin
Nope. English people can tell I'm Scottish. Scottish people often ask. Make of that what you will.
A couple of months living in England will make you lose your accent right enough
Not if you're a weegie.
But I'm not and I did live in England for over 5 years so my accent softened. Ms Brisk went to private school in Aberdeen so also has a somewhat softened accent so we make the perfect couple
Briskin, I lived years in England, years in USA and lots of time in other European countries, I did not lose my accent. You have to want to lose it, sheena Eastonesque
Yes, I did want to soften it - so that I could be more understood. I believe George Bernard Shaw did the same kind of thing and even wrote a famous play/film about it.
My accent is what it is. (probably not Scottish enough for your tastes)
Do you sound like Michael Gove?
No - Gove has a much posher accent than me or Ms Brisk.
Nobody would mistake Gove's accent as being Scottish.
Perhaps we were a bit spoilt by the batting depth of a decade ago and what we are seeing is a reversion to the normal mediocrity.
1990-99 one win an average of over 40 would be Thorpe. Who was the other? Michael Vaughan?
That looks a pretty fair reflection of the decline in the County Championship.
There were some quite weak bowling attacks in international cricket as well in the period 1999-2007. Bangladesh, New Zealand, West Indies, India (away) and Zimbabwe were all sides against whom half-decent batsmen would fill their boots. Now, one the other hand, there are occasional tests against Ireland or Afghanistan and the other world attacks are quite good.
Edit - although it's also true the championship has been weakened. With hindsight two divisions has been at best a very mixed blessing.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionist don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
Is that softened to a disney one Briskin
Nope. English people can tell I'm Scottish. Scottish people often ask. Make of that what you will.
A couple of months living in England will make you lose your accent right enough
Not if you're a weegie.
But I'm not and I did live in England for over 5 years so my accent softened. Ms Brisk went to private school in Aberdeen so also has a somewhat softened accent so we make the perfect couple
Briskin, I lived years in England, years in USA and lots of time in other European countries, I did not lose my accent. You have to want to lose it, sheena Eastonesque
Yes, I did want to soften it - so that I could be more understood. I believe George Bernard Shaw did the same kind of thing and even wrote a famous play/film about it.
My accent is what it is. (probably not Scottish enough for your tastes)
Do you sound like Michael Gove?
No - Gove has a much posher accent than me or Ms Brisk.
Nobody would mistake Gove's accent as being Scottish.
He sounds 'posh Scottish' to me.
Fake f**ker to me, I would never have thought him Scottish by his voice, though most of the posho private school boys are similar.
I wasn't put off by her accent, which is a bit estuary, so much as her inarticularcy and confused thinking. To be fair, defending and explaining Labours Brexit policy is a challenge for anyone.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionist don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
Is that softened to a disney one Briskin
Nope. English people can tell I'm Scottish. Scottish people often ask. Make of that what you will.
A couple of months living in England will make you lose your accent right enough
Not if you're a weegie.
But I'm not and I did live in England for over 5 years so my accent softened. Ms Brisk went to private school in Aberdeen so also has a somewhat softened accent so we make the perfect couple
Briskin, I lived years in England, years in USA and lots of time in other European countries, I did not lose my accent. You have to want to lose it, sheena Eastonesque
Yes, I did want toa famous play/film about it.
My accent is what it is. (probably not Scottish enough for your tastes)
Do you sound like Michael Gove?
No - Gove has a much posher accent than me or Ms Brisk.
Nobody would mistake Gove's accent as being Scottish.
He sounds 'posh Scottish' to me.
Fake f**ker to me, I would never have thought him Scottish by his voice, though most of the posho private school boys are similar.
So much for the ‘civic nationalism’ claims of Scot nats.
Perhaps we were a bit spoilt by the batting depth of a decade ago and what we are seeing is a reversion to the normal mediocrity.
1990-99 one win an average of over 40 would be Thorpe. Who was the other? Michael Vaughan?
Vaughan is the other with Stewart and Hussein over 35.
The peak of England batting would have been around 2010/11 with a regular line up of Strauss, Cook, Trott, Pieterson, Bell, Collingwood and Prior all averaging over 40 followed by the more than useful Bresnan, Swann and Broad.
I wasn't put off by her accent, which is a bit estuary, so much as her inarticularcy and confused thinking. To be fair, defending and explaining Labours Brexit policy is a challenge for anyone.
On topic, I’m also laying a 2019 election. I think one only comes about by accident.
2020 I’m much less confident about.
Same.
I think no Brexit and no election in 2019.
Election in 2020 for sure.
Brexit in 2020 too? Probably.
Boris has bet the ranch on October 31at. Do or die we will be leaving then. If Boris is blocked he will bring down parliament and have a general election.
Perhaps we were a bit spoilt by the batting depth of a decade ago and what we are seeing is a reversion to the normal mediocrity.
1990-99 one win an average of over 40 would be Thorpe. Who was the other? Michael Vaughan?
That looks a pretty fair reflection of the decline in the County Championship.
There were some quite weak bowling attacks in international cricket as well in the period 1999-2007. Bangladesh, New Zealand, West Indies, India (away) and Zimbabwe were all sides against whom half-decent batsmen would fill their boots. Now, one the other hand, there are occasional tests against Ireland or Afghanistan and the other world attacks are quite good.
Edit - although it's also true the championship has been weakened. With hindsight two divisions has been at best a very mixed blessing.
The standard of play in Div 2 seems very much lower than in Div 1.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success Alastair Cook had on his return to Essex, and he spends more time on the farm than in the nets.
I wasn't put off by her accent, which is a bit estuary, so much as her inarticularcy and confused thinking. To be fair, defending and explaining Labours Brexit policy is a challenge for anyone.
They have a policy? Which hour was this in?
It was BBC Any Questions, but I only caught the first half.
Perhaps we were a bit spoilt by the batting depth of a decade ago and what we are seeing is a reversion to the normal mediocrity.
1990-99 one win an average of over 40 would be Thorpe. Who was the other? Michael Vaughan?
That looks a pretty fair reflection of the decline in the County Championship.
There were some quite weak bowling attacks in international cricket as well in the period 1999-2007. Bangladesh, New Zealand, West Indies, India (away) and Zimbabwe were all sides against whom half-decent batsmen would fill their boots. Now, one the other hand, there are occasional tests against Ireland or Afghanistan and the other world attacks are quite good.
Edit - although it's also true the championship has been weakened. With hindsight two divisions has been at best a very mixed blessing.
The standard of play in Div 2 seems very much lower than in Div 1.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success Alastair Cook had on his return to Essex, and he spends more time on the farm than in the nets.
The batting lineups are much weaker, because every time there is a half decent batsman in a division 2 county the big boys lure him away with a huge pay cheque - sometimes illegally. So low scores and frequent collapses are the order of the day.
I don't think there's quite the same difference in bowling lineups. Or, to put it another way, Anderson, Archer, Wood and Ali all bowl for second division sides.
Edit - also remember your own side, after a very hard fought promotion battle in division two, absolutely dominated division one the following season. Admittedly the arrival of Harmer may have helped. But I don't think there's quite the gulf people like to claim.
Faiza Shaheen is another Labour front bencher who drops more letters than she uses. She's obviously well educated so why would she want to sound like a moron? Accents don't matter much unless you want to be a voice over but sounding stupid when you aren't is an odd choice to make
you're probably just another well spoken mediocrity.
How do you know?
I hear them on Sky news (although they probably do interviews for the beeb as well)
Do you disapprove of Scottish accents? As a Unionist, they must doubly irk you.
Why would I disapprove of Scottish accents? I have one myself ableit softened.
FTR - Unionist don't disapprove of Scottish accents.
Is that softened to a disney one Briskin
Nope. English people can tell I'm Scottish. Scottish people often ask. Make of that what you will.
A couple of months living in England will make you lose your accent right enough
Briskin, I lived years in England, years in USA and lots of time in other European countries, I did not lose my accent. You have to want to lose it, sheena Eastonesque
Yes, I did want toa famous play/film about it.
My accent is what it is. (probably not Scottish enough for your tastes)
Do you sound like Michael Gove?
No - Gove has a much posher accent than me or Ms Brisk.
Nobody would mistake Gove's accent as being Scottish.
He sounds 'posh Scottish' to me.
Fake f**ker to me, I would never have thought him Scottish by his voice, though most of the posho private school boys are similar.
So much for the ‘civic nationalism’ claims of Scot nats.
What are you bumping your gums about about you halfwit , no-one is talking about nationalism , we are talking about accents.
Perhaps we were a bit spoilt by the batting depth of a decade ago and what we are seeing is a reversion to the normal mediocrity.
1990-99 one win an average of over 40 would be Thorpe. Who was the other? Michael Vaughan?
That looks a pretty fair reflection of the decline in the County Championship.
There were some quite weak bowling attacks in international cricket as well in the period 1999-2007. Bangladesh, New Zealand, West Indies, India (away) and Zimbabwe were all sides against whom half-decent batsmen would fill their boots. Now, one the other hand, there are occasional tests against Ireland or Afghanistan and the other world attacks are quite good.
Edit - although it's also true the championship has been weakened. With hindsight two divisions has been at best a very mixed blessing.
The standard of play in Div 2 seems very much lower than in Div 1.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success Alastair Cook had on his return to Essex, and he spends more time on the farm than in the nets.
The batting lineups are much weaker, because every time there is a half decent batsman in a division 2 county the big boys lure him away with a huge pay cheque - sometimes illegally. So low scores and frequent collapses are the order of the day.
I don't think there's quite the same difference in bowling lineups. Or, to put it another way, Anderson, Archer, Wood and Ali all bowl for second division sides.
That might help explain why the Selectors continue to ignore Jamie Porter. He gets decent enough figures but obviously he'd catch the eye more bowling against 2nd Division batsmen.
It's nothing to do with class. Advertisers have tested accents to death. The most trusted are Edinburgh. So banks insurance companies etc often go for a soft Edinburgh voice overs. Why would an MP choose a voice that tells the public she's not very bright?
The standard of play in Div 2 seems very much lower than in Div 1.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success Alastair Cook had on his return to Essex, and he spends more time on the farm than in the nets.
The batting lineups are much weaker, because every time there is a half decent batsman in a division 2 county the big boys lure him away with a huge pay cheque - sometimes illegally. So low scores and frequent collapses are the order of the day.
I don't think there's quite the same difference in bowling lineups. Or, to put it another way, Anderson, Archer, Wood and Ali all bowl for second division sides.
That might help explain why the Selectors continue to ignore Jamie Porter. He gets decent enough figures but obviously he'd catch the eye more bowling against 2nd Division batsmen.
Well, yes. Look at Will Gidman. Knocked over wickets for fun in Division 2 as a part-time medium pacer. Moved to Notts as a bowler and couldn't buy a wicket.
Admittedly Notts are infamous for their ruination of promising young players that they steal from other counties. James Taylor, Ben Duckett, Joe Clarke also could be mentioned. But ultimately WRSG was a batsman who could bowl, but the weak batting lineups made him look like a full-on bowler.
If you want to consider how weak some batting lineups in Div 2 are, check out James Anderson's average this season.
And then ponder that there are still batsmen in that division who despite the lack of support and the firepower they are facing are still averaging over 50.
So what was going so well in English cricket in the 2000s which has changed in the 2010s ?
Is that First Class or International?
If it is International then isn't it perhaps due to the success of Broad and Anderson claiming the top spots in the team for a long time preventing others from getting into the team?
It's nothing to do with class. Advertisers have tested accents to death. The most trusted are Edinburgh. So banks insurance companies etc often go for a soft Edinburgh voice overs. Why would an MP choose a voice that tells the public she's not very bright?
My comment followed SandyRentool's about Corbyn being a class traitor. I have no view about class in this matter. However on your prompting perhaps I should open up the Henry Higgins Morningside academy for refined aspirant politicians.
"In regards to the batting, take out Smith, and has Australia's really been that much better than England's?" Yeah, but you've seen how hard it is to take him out, right, Keith? Even bodily assault doesn't seem to work.
The standard of play in Div 2 seems very much lower than in Div 1.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success Alastair Cook had on his return to Essex, and he spends more time on the farm than in the nets.
The batting lineups are much weaker, because every time there is a half decent batsman in a division 2 county the big boys lure him away with a huge pay cheque - sometimes illegally. So low scores and frequent collapses are the order of the day.
I don't think there's quite the same difference in bowling lineups. Or, to put it another way, Anderson, Archer, Wood and Ali all bowl for second division sides.
That might help explain why the Selectors continue to ignore Jamie Porter. He gets decent enough figures but obviously he'd catch the eye more bowling against 2nd Division batsmen.
Well, yes. Look at Will Gidman. Knocked over wickets for fun in Division 2 as a part-time medium pacer. Moved to Notts as a bowler and couldn't buy a wicket.
Admittedly Notts are infamous for their ruination of promising young players that they steal from other counties. James Taylor, Ben Duckett, Joe Clarke also could be mentioned. But ultimately WRSG was a batsman who could bowl, but the weak batting lineups made him look like a full-on bowler.
If you want to consider how weak some batting lineups in Div 2 are, check out James Anderson's average this season.
And then ponder that there are still batsmen in that division who despite the lack of support and the firepower they are facing are still averaging over 50.
Quite, and yet the Selectors seem oblivious to the difference in class between the Divisions - not that they take much notice of County performances anyway.
The standard of play in Div 2 seems very much lower than in Div 1.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success Alastair Cook had on his return to Essex, and he spends more time on the farm than in the nets.
The batting lineups are much weaker, because every time there is a half decent batsman in a division 2 county the big boys lure him away with a huge pay cheque - sometimes illegally. So low scores and frequent collapses are the order of the day.
I don't think there's quite the same difference in bowling lineups. Or, to put it another way, Anderson, Archer, Wood and Ali all bowl for second division sides.
That might help explain why the Selectors continue to ignore Jamie Porter. He gets decent enough figures but obviously he'd catch the eye more bowling against 2nd Division batsmen.
Well, yes. Look at Will Gidman. Knocked over wickets for fun in Division 2 as a part-time medium pacer. Moved to Notts as a bowler and couldn't buy a wicket.
Admittedly Notts are infamous for their ruination of promising young players that they steal from other counties. James Taylor, Ben Duckett, Joe Clarke also could be mentioned. But ultimately WRSG was a batsman who could bowl, but the weak batting lineups made him look like a full-on bowler.
If you want to consider how weak some batting lineups in Div 2 are, check out James Anderson's average this season.
And then ponder that there are still batsmen in that division who despite the lack of support and the firepower they are facing are still averaging over 50.
Quite, and yet the Selectors seem oblivious to the difference in class between the Divisions - not that they take much notice of County performances anyway.
I would say it's more that they (and journalists for that matter) don't seem to get the complexities. From that point of view, they're like a London journalist stubbornly insisting that Brecon showed a Boris bounce, even though if there was one they would have held the seat.
That might be because Ed Smith used to play only for big clubs in the South East. But I think it's simply because the First Division clubs have a stranglehold on English cricket one way and another and they don't bother to look beyond the end of their own noses.
For me, I would say performances in the Second Division should be 1) weighted by opposition - a century against Leicestershire is not the same as one against Sussex, Lancashire or even Gloucestershire and 2) bowling performances should be slightly downweighted because of the fragile batting lineups.
The standard of play in Div 2 seems very much lower than in Div 1.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success ATaylor, Ben Duckett, Joe Clarke also could be mentioned. But ultimately WRSG was a batsman who could bowl, but the weak batting lineups made him look like a full-on bowler.
If you want to consider how weak some batting lineups in Div 2 are, check out James Anderson's average this season.
And then ponder that there are still batsmen in that division who despite the lack of support and the firepower they are facing are still averaging over 50.
Quite, and yet the Selectors seem oblivious to the difference in class between the Divisions - not that they take much notice of County performances anyway.
I would say it's more that they (and journalists for that matter) don't seem to get the complexities. From that point of view, they're like a London journalist stubbornly insisting that Brecon showed a Boris bounce, even though if there was one they would have held the seat.
That might be because Ed Smith used to play only for big clubs in the South East. But I think it's simply because the First Division clubs have a stranglehold on English cricket one way and another and they don't bother to look beyond the end of their own noses.
For me, I would say performances in the Second Division should be 1) weighted by opposition - a century against Leicestershire is not the same as one against Sussex, Lancashire or even Gloucestershire and 2) bowling performances should be slightly downweighted because of the fragile batting lineups.
But they don't.
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics.
Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo.
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
How about 3200 wickets at 19 each - and one test cap?
On topic, I’m also laying a 2019 election. I think one only comes about by accident.
2020 I’m much less confident about.
Same.
I think no Brexit and no election in 2019.
Election in 2020 for sure.
Brexit in 2020 too? Probably.
Boris has bet the ranch on October 31at. Do or die we will be leaving then. If Boris is blocked he will bring down parliament and have a general election.
Not sure. With a legally reuqired 5 week campaign, unlike anything Blair had to face, there's too much space for somehing to go wrong.
So what was going so well in English cricket in the 2000s which has changed in the 2010s ?
Well, 2010-19 the fact that Anderson and Broad have taken a thousand wickets between them probably restricts the options for the others.
I'll give you Anderson but Broad's longevity is because of the lack of competent alternatives.
While I'm not starry eyed about Broad, how many 'competent' bowlers can take 8-15 against one of the world's top batting lineups?
Stuart Broad has so far taken 450 wickets, 67 more than any other English bowler in test history, apart from Jimmy Anderson. In any other era he would have been our absolute star.
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics.
Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo.
👌
How on Earth did you find 6 Labour voters in Ponteland? Keep your voices down, you'll be deported over the City lines!
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
How about 3200 wickets at 19 each - and one test cap?
The history of the game is littered with similar examples. I remember Tom Cartwright and Derek Shackleton but I'm sure any cricket fan can come up with their own illustrations.
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
How about 3200 wickets at 19 each - and one test cap?
It sounds as though selectorial methods have not greatly changed... David Foot, biographer of "characters who do not fit into their social mould" begins Cricket's Unholy Trinity, about Parker, Jack MacBryan and Cecil Parkin, with the story of Parker confronting Plum Warner, the establishment's establishment man. Parker grabbed the lapels of the older man when asked to stand aside to make way for him. "I'll never in my life make way for that bugger," Parker declared. "He's never once had a good word to say for me. This so-and-so has blocked my Test career. I played once in 1921 and he made sure I never played again. Make way for him? Mr Bloody Warner will go to bed when I've finished with him."...
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
I've not read the book, but agree with sentiments about East and Acfield. I suspect Porter would be spoken about more as a possible if he played for Surrey.
Come on life could be worse I’ve just watched Yeovil lose to Barrow that’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back.
There's a Canvey team in a 'promotion possible' position (so far) in National League South. And my now local team have started with a win. So it's not all bad!
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics.
Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo.
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
I've not read the book, but agree with sentiments about East and Acfield. I suspect Porter would be spoken about more as a possible if he played for Surrey.
He's not the answer to England's prayers but I watched him play against Middlesex two seasons ago when all the pacemen struggled on a hard flat pitch. Porter was the pick of them howver, followed by Stephen Finn, and then Toby Roland-Jones. Soon after, TRJ won his first England cap and was subsequently picked for the Ashes tour.
I think the simple and unexaggerated truth is that if you play regularly for Middlesex you will sooner or later be picked for England. If you play for any other County, it is not necessarily sufficient to be of Test standard. Generally speaking, the further your County is from St John's Wood the less chance you have of an England cap.
Come on life could be worse I’ve just watched Yeovil lose to Barrow that’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back.
At what?
National league football if you have lived in south Somerset you may understand but I doubt it😀
That really does sound boring.
People get very worked up about it.
Oddly enough Paddy didn’t really get the football thing and was not really interested whereas David Laws never missed a match but the decline in YTFC seems to mirror Lib Dem prospects but I think we’re on our way back on both fronts.
Come on life could be worse I’ve just watched Yeovil lose to Barrow that’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back.
At what?
National league football if you have lived in south Somerset you may understand but I doubt it😀
That really does sound boring.
People get very worked up about it.
Oddly enough Paddy didn’t really get the football thing and was not really interested whereas David Laws never missed a match but the decline in YTFC seems to mirror Lib Dem prospects but I think we’re on our way back on both fronts.
Have they not spent a lot of money on a female team, so reducing funds for the mens team?
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
I've not read the book, but agree with sentiments about East and Acfield. I suspect Porter would be spoken about more as a possible if he played for Surrey.
He's not the answer to England's prayers but I watched him play against Middlesex two seasons ago when all the pacemen struggled on a hard flat pitch. Porter was the pick of them howver, followed by Stephen Finn, and then Toby Roland-Jones. Soon after, TRJ won his first England cap and was subsequently picked for the Ashes tour.
I think the simple and unexaggerated truth is that if you play regularly for Middlesex you will sooner or later be picked for England. If you play for any other County, it is not necessarily sufficient to be of Test standard. Generally speaking, the further your County is from St John's Wood the less chance you have of an England cap.
Come on life could be worse I’ve just watched Yeovil lose to Barrow that’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back.
At what?
National league football if you have lived in south Somerset you may understand but I doubt it😀
That really does sound boring.
People get very worked up about it.
Oddly enough Paddy didn’t really get the football thing and was not really interested whereas David Laws never missed a match but the decline in YTFC seems to mirror Lib Dem prospects but I think we’re on our way back on both fronts.
Have they not spent a lot of money on a female team, so reducing funds for the mens team?
Come on life could be worse I’ve just watched Yeovil lose to Barrow that’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back.
There's a Canvey team in a 'promotion possible' position (so far) in National League South. And my now local team have started with a win. So it's not all bad!
I have to say following Yeovil have given me some of the most memorable moments of my life, FA trophy at Villa park two Wembley play offs you have to take the rough with the smooth.
Come on life could be worse I’ve just watched Yeovil lose to Barrow that’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back.
There's a Canvey team in a 'promotion possible' position (so far) in National League South. And my now local team have started with a win. So it's not all bad!
I have to say following Yeovil have given me some of the most memorable moments of my life, FA trophy at Villa park two Wembley play offs you have to take the rough with the smooth.
I support a League 2 team and you are dead right, the playoffs are great and the final even better, especially if you win it.
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics. Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo. 👌
Come on life could be worse I’ve just watched Yeovil lose to Barrow that’s two hours of my life I’ll never get back.
At what?
National league football if you have lived in south Somerset you may understand but I doubt it😀
That really does sound boring.
People get very worked up about it.
Oddly enough Paddy didn’t really get the football thing and was not really interested whereas David Laws never missed a match but the decline in YTFC seems to mirror Lib Dem prospects but I think we’re on our way back on both fronts.
Have they not spent a lot of money on a female team, so reducing funds for the mens team?
They actually had a very successful women’s team playing in the premier league but the two clubs male and female aren’t linked financially afaik that team have suffered a double relegation and will struggle to survive I think.
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics. Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo. 👌
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics.
Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo.
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics.
Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo.
Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics. Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo. 👌
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
I've not read the book, but agree with sentiments about East and Acfield. I suspect Porter would be spoken about more as a possible if he played for Surrey.
He's not the answer to England's prayers but I watched him play against Middlesex two seasons ago when all the pacemen struggled on a hard flat pitch. Porter was the pick of them howver, followed by Stephen Finn, and then Toby Roland-Jones. Soon after, TRJ won his first England cap and was subsequently picked for the Ashes tour.
I think the simple and unexaggerated truth is that if you play regularly for Middlesex you will sooner or later be picked for England. If you play for any other County, it is not necessarily sufficient to be of Test standard. Generally speaking, the further your County is from St John's Wood the less chance you have of an England cap.
I was thinking about this the other day and Simon Hughes must have been the only Middlesex regular not to play for England during the 1980s.
Although I would also add that playing for Yorkshire or Lancashire does your prospects no harm.
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
I've not read the book, but agree with sentiments about East and Acfield. I suspect Porter would be spoken about more as a possible if he played for Surrey.
He's not the answer to England's prayers but I watched him play against Middlesex two seasons ago when all the pacemen struggled on a hard flat pitch. Porter was the pick of them howver, followed by Stephen Finn, and then Toby Roland-Jones. Soon after, TRJ won his first England cap and was subsequently picked for the Ashes tour.
I think the simple and unexaggerated truth is that if you play regularly for Middlesex you will sooner or later be picked for England. If you play for any other County, it is not necessarily sufficient to be of Test standard. Generally speaking, the further your County is from St John's Wood the less chance you have of an England cap.
Or Surrey.
And wasn't selection highly influenced by the 'Essex Mafia' back in the early 90s?
Comments
At home they'd be described as posh.
I think no Brexit and no election in 2019.
Election in 2020 for sure.
Brexit in 2020 too? Probably.
Mind you, he's only our third best bowler - after Harmer (S.African) and Porter (English, but please don't tell the Selectors).
Edit - although it's also true the championship has been weakened. With hindsight two divisions has been at best a very mixed blessing.
For the same reason, I turn the TV off when that harebained bully Long-Bailey is being interviewed.
According to Wiki, she is from Leytonstone and went to Chingford High School, then PPE at Oxford.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faiza_Shaheen
I wasn't put off by her accent, which is a bit estuary, so much as her inarticularcy and confused thinking. To be fair, defending and explaining Labours Brexit policy is a challenge for anyone.
The peak of England batting would have been around 2010/11 with a regular line up of Strauss, Cook, Trott, Pieterson, Bell, Collingwood and Prior all averaging over 40 followed by the more than useful Bresnan, Swann and Broad.
Bangladesh fire: 15,000 homes destroyed in Dhaka slum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49382682
Hard to believe there are no fatalities - but then again the Great Fire of London claimed only 16 lives.
Boris has bet the ranch on October 31at. Do or die we will be leaving then. If Boris is blocked he will bring down parliament and have a general election.
The difference between Test and Div 1 standard is well illustrated by the success Alastair Cook had on his return to Essex, and he spends more time on the farm than in the nets.
I don't think there's quite the same difference in bowling lineups. Or, to put it another way, Anderson, Archer, Wood and Ali all bowl for second division sides.
Edit - also remember your own side, after a very hard fought promotion battle in division two, absolutely dominated division one the following season. Admittedly the arrival of Harmer may have helped. But I don't think there's quite the gulf people like to claim.
Admittedly Notts are infamous for their ruination of promising young players that they steal from other counties. James Taylor, Ben Duckett, Joe Clarke also could be mentioned. But ultimately WRSG was a batsman who could bowl, but the weak batting lineups made him look like a full-on bowler.
If you want to consider how weak some batting lineups in Div 2 are, check out James Anderson's average this season.
And then ponder that there are still batsmen in that division who despite the lack of support and the firepower they are facing are still averaging over 50.
1946-1959 debuts - 9
1960-1969 debuts - 5
1970-1979 debuts - 6
1980-1989 debuts - 1
1990-1999 debuts - 4
2000-2009 debuts - 6
2010-2019 debuts - 0
Including those with 50+ wickets at an average of under 35:
1946-1959 debuts - 12
1960-1969 debuts - 7
1970-1979 debuts - 9
1980-1989 debuts - 5
1990-1999 debuts - 6
2000-2009 debuts - 10
2010-2019 debuts - 3
So what was going so well in English cricket in the 2000s which has changed in the 2010s ?
If it is International then isn't it perhaps due to the success of Broad and Anderson claiming the top spots in the team for a long time preventing others from getting into the team?
However on your prompting perhaps I should open up the Henry Higgins Morningside academy for refined aspirant politicians.
"In regards to the batting, take out Smith, and has Australia's really been that much better than England's?" Yeah, but you've seen how hard it is to take him out, right, Keith? Even bodily assault doesn't seem to work.
That might be because Ed Smith used to play only for big clubs in the South East. But I think it's simply because the First Division clubs have a stranglehold on English cricket one way and another and they don't bother to look beyond the end of their own noses.
For me, I would say performances in the Second Division should be 1) weighted by opposition - a century against Leicestershire is not the same as one against Sussex, Lancashire or even Gloucestershire and 2) bowling performances should be slightly downweighted because of the fragile batting lineups.
But they don't.
The one thing more boring than watching cricket is listening to people talking about cricket.
** drops out **
That's not a criticism of Broad - we all fade at some point and if there isn't a better alternative coming through.
You might like to try Vic Marks' latest book, Original Spin. He's no radical but almost inadvertently lifts the lid on the cliqueishness and amateurism of the English game. It would make you realise that the kind of sophistications you propose are still light years aways and that the Old Boys Network remains the best path to selection and preferment.
Marks himself did little to earn his caps - first with Somerset, then with England. Typically, he dropped out of the England scene without ever actually having done much wrong. But at least he got a fair chance. I'd sympathise with more had I not watched Ray East and David Acfield bowl Essex to much success round about the same time. Neither were ever capped.
The book is an enjoyable read, but a little depressing if you care about the game.
Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo.
👌
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/18418.html
David Foot, biographer of "characters who do not fit into their social mould" begins Cricket's Unholy Trinity, about Parker, Jack MacBryan and Cecil Parkin, with the story of Parker confronting Plum Warner, the establishment's establishment man. Parker grabbed the lapels of the older man when asked to stand aside to make way for him. "I'll never in my life make way for that bugger," Parker declared. "He's never once had a good word to say for me. This so-and-so has blocked my Test career. I played once in 1921 and he made sure I never played again. Make way for him? Mr Bloody Warner will go to bed when I've finished with him."...
(Time for seconds)
I suspect Porter would be spoken about more as a possible if he played for Surrey.
There's a Canvey team in a 'promotion possible' position (so far) in National League South. And my now local team have started with a win.
So it's not all bad!
I think the simple and unexaggerated truth is that if you play regularly for Middlesex you will sooner or later be picked for England. If you play for any other County, it is not necessarily sufficient to be of Test standard. Generally speaking, the further your County is from St John's Wood the less chance you have of an England cap.
Although I would also add that playing for Yorkshire or Lancashire does your prospects no harm.
There are those who will tell you that’s perhaps not a rock solid strategy.