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  • Gabs2 said:

    Scott_P said:

    I wonder if they wargamed Parliament being recalled?

    Much of the plan so far seems to rely on BoZo not being asked any awkward questions during his taxpayer funded propaganda blitz...

    I spoke to a former SPAD earlier on this week, they said it is clear that Cummings nor Johnson understand the FTPA.

    Given that they also think we get a transition with No Deal we have to conclude Cummings and Johnson aren't very bright.
    Did your SPAD mate say whether Boris and Cummings understand the 1972 European Communities Act?
    You seem obsessed with my former SPAD mate.

    At least he knows that Stoke and Mansfield aren't in the North.
    If "grass" rhymes with "lass" in the local dialect, it's the North.
    As the only bona fide working class Northerner on PB I have my own definition of what is the North.
    Geordies get a pass for December t-shirt wearing, but the rest of ye will always be southern jessies.
    You're calling a Yorkshireman a Southern Jessie?

    That's fighting talk.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is taking no prisoners as he takes everyone in the opposition camps on in a fight that must have a conclusion by the 31st October

    I have no idea where this ends and it is very scary

    Each and every mp bears a heavy responsibility for this disaster

    Is there anyone who can achieve a compromise.

    TM's deal is still there and was and still is the best resolution

    TM's deal is not there. The government needs to bring it forward. Boris has declared it dead.
    So. It can only be alive if Boris produces a spectacular climb down. And with no guarantee it would pass.
    It is still there if there is a will . If all those writing a letter to Boris today had instead written an endorsement of the deal, demonstrating a cross HOC compromise, it would have a chance.

    But no, they each carry on in their entrenched positions

    Hence while I say, a plague on every mp for taking us down this idiotic road
    On which note. Has anyone suggested one TMay for leader of GNU?
    We know she is opposed to No Deal. We know she'd love to shaft ERG.
    Would be hard to argue it was a "coup" as she actually won most seats at the last election...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    edited August 2019
    Streeter said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I just wish everybody would compromise a little bit. But instead everyone insists on being self-righteous and demonizing of the other side.
    Personally, and I can only speak for myself, I'd have been quite satisfied with a soft Brexit. What I find utterly unacceptable is the attempt to overturn the vote.
    Suck it up, winner.
    I am also quite satisfied with leaving without a withdrawal agreement, which has its own plusses.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Boris is taking no prisoners as he takes everyone in the opposition camps on in a fight that must have a conclusion by the 31st October

    I have no idea where this ends and it is very scary

    Each and every mp bears a heavy responsibility for this disaster

    Is there anyone who can achieve a compromise.

    TM's deal is still there and was and still is the best resolution

    TM's deal is not there. The government needs to bring it forward. Boris has declared it dead.
    So. It can only be alive if Boris produces a spectacular climb down. And with no guarantee it would pass.
    It is still there if there is a will . If all those writing a letter to Boris today had instead written an endorsement of the deal, demonstrating a cross HOC compromise, it would have a chance.

    But no, they each carry on in their entrenched positions

    Hence while I say, a plague on every mp for taking us down this idiotic road
    The problem is MPs don't endorse the deal. Supporters of it never quite got that. It is remarkably unpopular. More so than competing options.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    AndyJS said:

    Zephyr said:

    AndyJS said:

    Have there been any new polls tonight?

    I find myself playing innuendo tennis and reading obscure cricket stats, I only nipped on to laugh at this weeks hysterical electoral calculus outputs, are there no crazy holiday season polls to argue over?
    Reading obscure cricket stats is one of my hobbies. At the moment I'm trying to find out what the highest run chases at Lords have been so far, but it's proving to be surprisingly difficult to find the figures.
    I think this is it.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;event=3;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    AndyJS said:

    Zephyr said:

    AndyJS said:

    Have there been any new polls tonight?

    I find myself playing innuendo tennis and reading obscure cricket stats, I only nipped on to laugh at this weeks hysterical electoral calculus outputs, are there no crazy holiday season polls to argue over?
    Reading obscure cricket stats is one of my hobbies. At the moment I'm trying to find out what the highest run chases at Lords have been so far, but it's proving to be surprisingly difficult to find the figures.
    I think this is it.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;event=3;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings
    The list of sufficient scores would be good to know too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    This paragraph reads sort-of low key but taking a step back it's striking how bananas the whole operation is:

    Downing Street is said to be holding daily meetings about how to delay legislation in September – a tactic designed to take away opportunities for MPs to hijack government plans with measures opposing no deal.

    Not only are they ripping up all their existing trade arrangements with nothing to replace them, they are doing it while conducting an ongoing denial-of-service attack on their own parliament. Which means they can't pass any legislation to prepare for what they're about to do, or even do anything else. This is absolutely mental.
    Johnson has turned the country into a giant Kursk submarine.

    The oxygen is running out and no one has a fucking clue what to do.
    I wonder if the cabinet are writing letters.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/1372059/Doomed-sailors-letter-from-the-Kursk.html
    Steve Barclay seems to have been writing something according to the Telegraph.
    He’s signed the formal order to repeal the European Communities Act.

    That cues up his line in the bunker scene: “Das war ein Befehl!!!”
    If you say so.
    Hmm will that document end up like the execution warrant for Charles I or the Declaration of Independence?

    Will Barclay be feted or fated?
    I believe Parliament can override Barclay's decision so it could make Barclay as impotent as a eunuch.
    Technically would eunuchs be impotent? For me the word suggests failure of the possible while for a eunuch it’s just not possible.
    That's like saying that you can't use the word "immobile" to describe somebody who's had their arms and legs cut off.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Zephyr said:

    AndyJS said:

    Have there been any new polls tonight?

    I find myself playing innuendo tennis and reading obscure cricket stats, I only nipped on to laugh at this weeks hysterical electoral calculus outputs, are there no crazy holiday season polls to argue over?
    Reading obscure cricket stats is one of my hobbies. At the moment I'm trying to find out what the highest run chases at Lords have been so far, but it's proving to be surprisingly difficult to find the figures.
    I think this is it.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;event=3;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings
    The list of sufficient scores would be good to know too.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;template=results;type=team;view=innings
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    1968 coup plotted against Harold Wilson's Labour government.

    Lord Mountbatten came dangerously close to leading a cabal of industrialists, generals and tycoons plotting a coup against an elected Labour government, a new book reveals.

    The 1968 plot was designed to replace Prime Minister Harold Wilson with a coalition government to bring the country together, during what Mountbatten and the conspirators regarded as a time of national crisis.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/17/revealed-full-extent-lord-mountbattens-role-68-plot-against/

    “It was not Solly Zuckerman who talked Mountbatten out of staging a coup and making himself President of Britain. It was the Queen herself.”
    That's rather unfair on Mountbatten. The article even acknowledges that when it came to the critical moment, Mountbatten said "no". Which is all you can ask from people.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Scott_P said:

    Surely if enough MPs were to ask the Speaker to recall Parliament he could do so.

    We are about to find out, although the Sunday shows will be awash with Brexiteers who whine incessantly about Parliamentary Sovereignty explaining why Parliament must NOT be allowed to sit right now...
    No, unfortunately. https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/occasions/recallparliament/
    Bercow's a convention buster.
    He sure is. But those that celebrate that cannot reasonably complain if other parliamentarians bust convention.
    Quite. Sometimes it can be warranted, sometimes not, but clearly if one side dies it the other will consider it justified to try.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    edited August 2019
    viewcode said:

    1968 coup plotted against Harold Wilson's Labour government.

    Lord Mountbatten came dangerously close to leading a cabal of industrialists, generals and tycoons plotting a coup against an elected Labour government, a new book reveals.

    The 1968 plot was designed to replace Prime Minister Harold Wilson with a coalition government to bring the country together, during what Mountbatten and the conspirators regarded as a time of national crisis.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/17/revealed-full-extent-lord-mountbattens-role-68-plot-against/

    “It was not Solly Zuckerman who talked Mountbatten out of staging a coup and making himself President of Britain. It was the Queen herself.”
    That's rather unfair on Mountbatten. The article even acknowledges that when it came to the critical moment, Mountbatten said "no". Which is all you can ask from people.
    "We have explored all the options and concluded you would be an ideal candidate to lead an overthrow of democracy."
    "Well. Thank you for thinking so highly of me. And involving me in the planning at every stage. It is a great honour, but, regretfully, my niece doesn't approve."
    Which is all you can ask.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    AndyJS said:
    Some of our venerable pbers present at the event?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Roger said:

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
    Has it ever not been a dangerous rag?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Roger said:

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
    1. Sympathies to OJ and I hope he's not too badly hurt.

    2. I see you have seen the completed Police investigation and convictions which prove his claim that organs of the press were responsible for the attack.

    3. I know you would wish to avoid wild unsubtantiated allegations without a scintilla of actual evidence to back them up .... would you?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Is this the reason why Johnson is meeting Merkel and Macron ? He is going to tell them we are going out on the 31st [ he has no other option ] October but want their fullest cooperation.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    AndyJS said:

    Zephyr said:

    AndyJS said:

    Have there been any new polls tonight?

    I find myself playing innuendo tennis and reading obscure cricket stats, I only nipped on to laugh at this weeks hysterical electoral calculus outputs, are there no crazy holiday season polls to argue over?
    Reading obscure cricket stats is one of my hobbies. At the moment I'm trying to find out what the highest run chases at Lords have been so far, but it's proving to be surprisingly difficult to find the figures.
    I think this is it.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;event=3;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings
    If Australia chase more than 200, they will lose. Less than 150, they will possibly win. Leach has to come to the party. Archer alone won't do. But the "fifth" day [ which it is not ] has variable bounce. So any bowler could cause trouble.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    That’s exactly what Cummings wants you to think. Expectations management is all that’s happening on all sides now.
  • gwiongwion Posts: 1
    There is another way it could be triggered, by MPs amending the Fixed Term Parliament Act to create an exception or creating a new law to allow an election which would require just a simple majority. One of the repercussions of our parliamentary sovereignty system is that these 2/3 majority that are written in statute are pretty much meaningless as they can be revoked/amended with a simple majority.
  • AndyJS said:

    Zephyr said:

    AndyJS said:

    Have there been any new polls tonight?

    I find myself playing innuendo tennis and reading obscure cricket stats, I only nipped on to laugh at this weeks hysterical electoral calculus outputs, are there no crazy holiday season polls to argue over?
    Reading obscure cricket stats is one of my hobbies. At the moment I'm trying to find out what the highest run chases at Lords have been so far, but it's proving to be surprisingly difficult to find the figures.
    I think this is it.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;event=3;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings
    If Australia chase more than 200, they will lose. Less than 150, they will possibly win. Leach has to come to the party. Archer alone won't do. But the "fifth" day [ which it is not ] has variable bounce. So any bowler could cause trouble.
    Yes, but for England to set more than 200 they have to bat until lunchtime, and then the time to bowl the Aussies out gets a bit tight. What's more, England would have to bat the game safe if they can so I reckon they would go deep into the afternoon session if they are not actually bowled out.

    So the paradox is that England's best chance of winning is to get bowled out quickly, but not too quickly.
  • dixiedean said:

    Roger said:

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
    Has it ever not been a dangerous rag?
    It's pretty disgusting but what can you do but not buy it?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Roger said:

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
    Has it ever not been a dangerous rag?
    It's pretty disgusting but what can you do but not buy it?
    Oh, I agree. Freedom of the Press, etc. Just was curious about the use of "reverted".
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    AndyJS said:

    Zephyr said:

    AndyJS said:

    Have there been any new polls tonight?

    I find myself playing innuendo tennis and reading obscure cricket stats, I only nipped on to laugh at this weeks hysterical electoral calculus outputs, are there no crazy holiday season polls to argue over?
    Reading obscure cricket stats is one of my hobbies. At the moment I'm trying to find out what the highest run chases at Lords have been so far, but it's proving to be surprisingly difficult to find the figures.
    I think this is it.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;event=3;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings
    If Australia chase more than 200, they will lose. Less than 150, they will possibly win. Leach has to come to the party. Archer alone won't do. But the "fifth" day [ which it is not ] has variable bounce. So any bowler could cause trouble.
    Expectations management as below. Draw should still be favourite.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    Scott_P said:
    He’s a fez short of a Tommy Cooper impression.
    I am sure he can find his grandfather's in some wardrobe.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    Trying to forget about politics by having a nice drink in Ponteland with some old university friends however the conversation has already gone onto politics.

    Out of 6 Lab voters at the 2017 election, 5 are going to now vote for Jo.

    👌

    After how many drinks was that conclusion reached ?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    dixiedean said:

    AndyJS said:

    Zephyr said:

    AndyJS said:

    Have there been any new polls tonight?

    I find myself playing innuendo tennis and reading obscure cricket stats, I only nipped on to laugh at this weeks hysterical electoral calculus outputs, are there no crazy holiday season polls to argue over?
    Reading obscure cricket stats is one of my hobbies. At the moment I'm trying to find out what the highest run chases at Lords have been so far, but it's proving to be surprisingly difficult to find the figures.
    I think this is it.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;event=3;filter=advanced;ground=10;innings_number=4;orderby=team_score;result=1;template=results;type=team;view=innings
    If Australia chase more than 200, they will lose. Less than 150, they will possibly win. Leach has to come to the party. Archer alone won't do. But the "fifth" day [ which it is not ] has variable bounce. So any bowler could cause trouble.
    Expectations management as below. Draw should still be favourite.
    Disagree. If 98 overs are indeed bowled [ doubtful ], there will be a result. Full house at Lords on a 5th day.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    gwion said:

    There is another way it could be triggered, by MPs amending the Fixed Term Parliament Act to create an exception or creating a new law to allow an election which would require just a simple majority. One of the repercussions of our parliamentary sovereignty system is that these 2/3 majority that are written in statute are pretty much meaningless as they can be revoked/amended with a simple majority.

    I thought 55% was needed for this Act.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Roger said:

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
    Has it ever not been a dangerous rag?
    It's pretty disgusting but what can you do but not buy it?
    Oh, I agree. Freedom of the Press, etc. Just was curious about the use of "reverted".
    Well I think it would once have passed as a respectable paper, but it certainly has no qualms about inciting the mob nowadays.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    gwion said:

    There is another way it could be triggered, by MPs amending the Fixed Term Parliament Act to create an exception or creating a new law to allow an election which would require just a simple majority. One of the repercussions of our parliamentary sovereignty system is that these 2/3 majority that are written in statute are pretty much meaningless as they can be revoked/amended with a simple majority.

    I thought 55% was needed for this Act.
    No, it's 2/3, and of all seats in the House including vacant ones. See:
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmbills/064/11064.1-7.html
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    Roger said:

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
    The only people responsible for acts of violence are the people who commit acts of violence.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2019
    felix said:

    Roger said:

    According to the BBC News website Owen Jones claims he has been attacked by "far right activists" outside a pub in the early hours.

    Yes and he correctly blames the right wing press. Looking at tomorrow's Mail you can see why. It's reverted to being a rag and a dangerous one. Words like 'saboteurs' are not a good idea . Next comes enemies within
    1. Sympathies to OJ and I hope he's not too badly hurt.

    2. I see you have seen the completed Police investigation and convictions which prove his claim that organs of the press were responsible for the attack.

    3. I know you would wish to avoid wild unsubtantiated allegations without a scintilla of actual evidence to back them up .... would you?
    Jones also observed that he didn't hear his attackers say anything so the "far right" claim is his (quite possibly reasonable) assumption given he's been so threatened in the past. Lets hope the perps are caught and brought to justice.

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1162747486559264768
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    notme2 said:

    The only people responsible for acts of violence are the people who commit acts of violence.

    You'd have found Charles Manson not guilty then?
This discussion has been closed.