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I'll be back with the list. Pike was an interesting one.
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what is best time to visit , like it pleasant but not too hot. Was thinking of going next Marc/April time.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!0 -
The pasta was overcooked. The pesto not very good. Neither enhanced the potatoes. It was just stodge. Like trying to eat wallpaper paste. Believe me, it was inedible.kle4 said:
I can see how that would indeed be a horror to actual Italians or those of Italian descent as not proper. But how was it actually inedible? How did such a transgression actually impair the taste of 2 good things so much?Cyclefree said:
In a restaurant in Dublin once - and not so very long ago either - they served pasta al pesto and decided to put new potatoes in with it, not on the side mind, but in the middle of the sauce.JohnLilburne said:
I get annoyed with so called "authentic" Italian restaurants in the UK that only have pasta priced as a main course and serve potatoes and veg by default with main courses. Of course I would always eat ragu with tagliatelle.Cyclefree said:
I didn’t like to say ......It is quite lonely enough fighting a rearguard action for proper coffee and pizza. If I have to add pasta - and that peculiar British abomination- “spag bol” - to the list, I’d be doing little else.TOPPING said:
An Italian friend once nearly walked out on me when, in a restaurant in Vicenza, I wanted to order pasta as a main course.Cyclefree said:
Well, we proper Italians (ie from the South!) do think that the north east corner of Italy is basically German - and historically much of it was part of Austria- Hungary - so it is not surprising that they don’t know how to cook and eat.DavidL said:
The one mild disappointment was the food. It was too Germanic and not nearly enough Italian which is my favourite cuisine in the world. Too much sausage, too much pork, too many pickles.Cyclefree said:
Mind you they think we’re basically Africans! United countries, eh?
Still, we have more fun.
Covering all the bases for us Irish-Italians, I suppose. It was inedible. But amongst my family I have been dining out on that story ever since.
Did you see the story a few years ago from NZ where the PM made home made pizza with tinned spaghetti on it?
Home-made pizza and tinned spaghetti!!!!! Was it for a bet for the most disgusting thing ever created?0 -
IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.DecrepitJohnL said:
Well, they'd all be very old. Captain Mainwaring was a bank manager and company man, so probably a Remainer. But aren't those who served in the war part of the Remain alliance? Never again?kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
Dad's Army was perhaps our best-acted sitcom. The two leads could surely have held their own in any drama (both had won BAFTAs elsewhere) and the supporting cast had its moments.0 -
Exactly , they are still winning WWII on their own with no help and damn Johnny Foreigner, you could not make it up.Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps stating the bleeding obvious but ur-Leaver identity is stuck around 1942 (and age wise at the wrong end of 'the best is yet to come')?kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
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I think it is a good point.david_herdson said:
Not a good point. I am interested in practical, deliverable policies. You build constitutional castles in the sky for all the good it'll do you.IanB2 said:
A good point. As a Tory David is more concerned with the residents of a fifth of one city going underrepresented than he is about a fifth of the entire country being so.Nigelb said:If the principle of voters’ voices being represented is so important, why do we not have PR ?
In that context, an odd MP out of 650 going AWOL is hardly a pressing matter, and voters in the constituency can deliver their verdict at the next election in any event.
You also shouldn't derive my preferred policies from my current party membership. The relationship runs the other way.
The ad hom against you was unnecessary, but what you suggest is of no great consequence in terms of improving representation. One could make more or less the same case for replacing an MP who is merely useless at his or her job.
In the context of an electoral system which now looks as though it could quite easily elect a majority government on around a third of the vote, it is effectively displacement activity.
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But who will those angry people be ?noneoftheabove said:
You might be right about people understanding about Brexit. You are being severely optimistic about the feelings around Brexit, anger, betrayal, national decline, them and us, disappearing after Brexit. If they don't someone whether it is Farage or someone else, will use those feelings to create a similar movement against the new establishment.DavidL said:
The threat of Farage is grossly overstated if Brexit is delivered. No doubt there will be moans of servitude etc. Few will pay attention having never got the details. I am reminded of Palmerston's description of the Schleswig-Holstein questionSouthamObserver said:
I just don’t see how that works. Anything but No Deal is a gift to Farage.DavidL said:
Agreed, the Commons is going to be presented with deal or no deal. The deal will basically be May's deal and if they are persuaded that no deal is a genuine threat then it may well pass. May herself was never even remotely credible about this which allowed remainers to oppose everything without consequence.SandyRentool said:
FPT:AndyJS said:"No-deal Brexit now 'assumed' by government, says Gove"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49141375
I reckon Gove's talk of working on the basis of No Deal is just part of a softening up exercise to allow Bozo to bring May's Deal by Another Name (Maydan Brexit) back to Parliament with the hope of ramming it through.
"“Only three people have ever really understood the Schleswig-Holstein business—the Prince Consort, who is dead—a German professor, who has gone mad—and I, who have forgotten all about it."
So let it be with Brexit. Of course if it is not delivered that is a whole other ball game.
In many ways the stereotypical BXP voter should be happy with their home ownership, triple lock pensions and healthcare spending.
Its the young, poor, urban and indebted who have got the shite sandwich and what does the establishment Left offer them ?0 -
If the no deal believers think that only by being deadly serious about no deal will get the EU to fold, surely they must also accept that the EU is capable of thinking the same thing about eminently foldable Boris? I also tend to think that they see letting the ERG and assorted nutters have their marching into the Rhineland moment would be storing up a shitload of trouble for the future. Better to take the pain now and let the tossers destroy themselves.Dura_Ace said:
Rawnsley, as well as having Great Hair, makes an interesting point in the article linked above.stodge said:
So this is the "poker" strategy. Keep raising the stakes for a No Deal (as Gove has today) in the hope the EU will fold and a new round of negotiations begin.
Now ask yourself this: how likely are Europe’s leaders to make themselves look very stupid in order to make Boris Johnson look very clever? Especially when most of them continue to think that no deal is a bluff, because they believe Britain’s parliament won’t allow it?0 -
A month or so later might be better ie April / May / early June. You will likely still get rain and cooler days in March. But if you’re walking best not to have it too hot anyway. There are some lovely smaller and less well-know lakes to visit as well.malcolmg said:
what is best time to visit , like it pleasant but not too hot. Was thinking of going next Marc/April time.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!
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Old NZ recipe apparently.Cyclefree said:
The pasta was overcooked. The pesto not very good. Neither enhanced the potatoes. It was just stodge. Like trying to eat wallpaper paste. Believe me, it was inedible.kle4 said:
I can see how that would indeed be a horror to actual Italians or those of Italian descent as not proper. But how was it actually inedible? How did such a transgression actually impair the taste of 2 good things so much?Cyclefree said:
In a restaurant in Dublin once - and not so very long ago either - they served pasta al pesto and decided to put new potatoes in with it, not on the side mind, but in the middle of the sauce.JohnLilburne said:
I get annoyed with so called "authentic" Italian restaurants in the UK that only have pasta priced as a main course and serve potatoes and veg by default with main courses. Of course I would always eat ragu with tagliatelle.Cyclefree said:
I didn’t like to say ......It is quite lonely enough fighting a rearguard action for proper coffee and pizza. If I have to add pasta - and that peculiar British abomination- “spag bol” - to the list, I’d be doing little else.TOPPING said:
An Italian friend once nearly walked out on me when, in a restaurant in Vicenza, I wanted to order pasta as a main course.Cyclefree said:
Well, we proper Italians (ie from the South!) do think that the north east corner of Italy is basically German - and historically much of it was part of Austria- Hungary - so it is not surprising that they don’t know how to cook and eat.DavidL said:
The one mild disappointment was the food. It was too Germanic and not nearly enough Italian which is my favourite cuisine in the world. Too much sausage, too much pork, too many pickles.Cyclefree said:
Mind you they think we’re basically Africans! United countries, eh?
Still, we have more fun.
Covering all the bases for us Irish-Italians, I suppose. It was inedible. But amongst my family I have been dining out on that story ever since.
Did you see the story a few years ago from NZ where the PM made home made pizza with tinned spaghetti on it?
Home-made pizza and tinned spaghetti!!!!! Was it for a bet for the most disgusting thing ever created?
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I've long predicted Labour will indeed go full remain, but he will do very little, relying on going to a few events as showing he is for remain, while leaving it to the more enthusiatic to make the point.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I believe you - but from the sounds of it it would not be inherently inedible if the pasta and pesto had been better, even if the combination is not proper. Mind you, even I have never combined potatoes and pasta together, and I once enjoyed a hearty breakfast of chicken breast dunked in egg yolk.Cyclefree said:
The pasta was overcooked. The pesto not very good. Neither enhanced the potatoes. It was just stodge. Like trying to eat wallpaper paste. Believe me, it was inedible.kle4 said:
I can see how that would indeed be a horror to actual Italians or those of Italian descent as not proper. But how was it actually inedible? How did such a transgression actually impair the taste of 2 good things so much?Cyclefree said:
In a restaurant in Dublin once - and not so very long ago either - they served pasta al pesto and decided to put new potatoes in with it, not on the side mind, but in the middle of the sauce.JohnLilburne said:
I get annoyed with sCyclefree said:
I didn’t like to say ......It is quite lonely enough fighting a rearguard action for proper coffee and pizza. If I have to add pasta - and that peculiar British abomination- “spag bol” - to the list, I’d be doing little else.TOPPING said:
An Italian friend once nearly walked out on me when, in a restaurant in Vicenza, I wanted to order pasta as a main course.Cyclefree said:
Well, we proper Italians (ie from the South!) do think that the north east corner of Italy is basically German - and historically much of it was part of Austria- Hungary - so it is not surprising that they don’t know how to cook and eat.DavidL said:
The one mild disappointment was the food. It was too Germanic and not nearly enough Italian which is my favourite cuisine in the world. Too much sausage, too much pork, too many pickles.Cyclefree said:
Mind you they think we’re basically Africans! United countries, eh?
Still, we have more fun.
Covering all the bases for us Irish-Italians, I suppose. It was inedible. But amongst my family I have been dining out on that story ever since.
Did you see the story a few years ago from NZ where the PM made home made pizza with tinned spaghetti on it?0 -
Surely you mean “odd”.kle4 said:
Old NZ recipe apparently.Cyclefree said:
The pasta was overcooked. The pesto not very good. Neither enhanced the potatoes. It was just stodge. Like trying to eat wallpaper paste. Believe me, it was inedible.kle4 said:
I can see how that would indeed be a horror to actual Italians or those of Italian descent as not proper. But how was it actually inedible? How did such a transgression actually impair the taste of 2 good things so much?Cyclefree said:
In a restaurant in Dublin once - and not so very long ago either - they served pasta al pesto and decided to put new potatoes in with it, not on the side mind, but in the middle of the sauce.JohnLilburne said:
I get annoyed with so called "authentic" Italian restaurants in the UK that only have pasta priced as a main course and serve potatoes and veg by default with main courses. Of course I would always eat ragu with tagliatelle.Cyclefree said:
I didn’t like to say ......It is quite lonely enough fighting a rearguard action for proper coffee and pizza. If I have to add pasta - and that peculiar British abomination- “spag bol” - to the list, I’d be doing little else.TOPPING said:
An Italian friend once nearly walked out on me when, in a restaurant in Vicenza, I wanted to order pasta as a main course.Cyclefree said:
Well, we proper Italians (ie from the South!) do think that the north east corner of Italy is basically German - and historically much of it was part of Austria- Hungary - so it is not surprising that they don’t know how to cook and eat.DavidL said:
The one mild disappointment was the food. It was too Germanic and not nearly enough Italian which is my favourite cuisine in the world. Too much sausage, too much pork, too many pickles.Cyclefree said:
Mind you they think we’re basically Africans! United countries, eh?
Still, we have more fun.
Covering all the bases for us Irish-Italians, I suppose. It was inedible. But amongst my family I have been dining out on that story ever since.
Did you see the story a few years ago from NZ where the PM made home made pizza with tinned spaghetti on it?
Home-made pizza and tinned spaghetti!!!!! Was it for a bet for the most disgusting thing ever created?0 -
It’s finally dawning on people who support remain at any cost, that JC isn’t on their side...CarlottaVance said:0 -
Didn't think the Maori ever got round to spaghetti.kle4 said:
Old NZ recipe apparently.Cyclefree said:
The pasta was overcooked. The pesto not very good. Neither enhanced the potatoes. It was just stodge. Like trying to eat wallpaper paste. Believe me, it was inedible.kle4 said:
I can see how that would indeed be a horror to actual Italians or those of Italian descent as not proper. But how was it actually inedible? How did such a transgression actually impair the taste of 2 good things so much?Cyclefree said:
In a restaurant in Dublin once - and not so very long ago either - they served pasta al pesto and decided to put new potatoes in with it, not on the side mind, but in the middle of the sauce.JohnLilburne said:
I get annoyed with so called "authentic" Italian restaurants in the UK that only have pasta priced as a main course and serve potatoes and veg by default with main courses. Of course I would always eat ragu with tagliatelle.Cyclefree said:
I didn’t like to say ......It is quite lonely enough fighting a rearguard action for proper coffee and pizza. If I have to add pasta - and that peculiar British abomination- “spag bol” - to the list, I’d be doing little else.TOPPING said:
An Italian friend once nearly walked out on me when, in a restaurant in Vicenza, I wanted to order pasta as a main course.Cyclefree said:
Well, we proper Italians (ie from the South!) do think that the north east corner of Italy is basically German - and historically much of it was part of Austria- Hungary - so it is not surprising that they don’t know how to cook and eat.DavidL said:
The one mild disappointment was the food. It was too Germanic and not nearly enough Italian which is my favourite cuisine in the world. Too much sausage, too much pork, too many pickles.Cyclefree said:
Still, we have more fun.
Covering all the bases for us Irish-Italians, I suppose. It was inedible. But amongst my family I have been dining out on that story ever since.
Did you see the story a few years ago from NZ where the PM made home made pizza with tinned spaghetti on it?
Home-made pizza and tinned spaghetti!!!!! Was it for a bet for the most disgusting thing ever created?0 -
Sadly the actor playing him the only one left alive of the cast I think.kinabalu said:I'll be back with the list. Pike was an interesting one.
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ThanksCyclefree said:
A month or so later might be better ie April / May / early June. You will likely still get rain and cooler days in March. But if you’re walking best not to have it too hot anyway. There are some lovely smaller and less well-know lakes to visit as well.malcolmg said:
what is best time to visit , like it pleasant but not too hot. Was thinking of going next Marc/April time.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!0 -
If you read the linked speech, there is much about investment in infrastructure and public services that could have been lifted from Ed Miliband or even Jeremy Corbyn.CarlottaVance said:Boris has a new admirer:
https://twitter.com/goodwinmj/status/1155391362818347009?s=21
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-at-manchester-science-and-industry-museum
But was Jacob Rees-Mogg involved in the casting of this sentence: And proposals drastically to reduce waiting times for GP appointments which avoids a split infinitive but dumps drastically in entirely the wrong place?0 -
I have found the answer to the question I posted here the other day about HS2. Observer says that Grant Shapps is pro-HS2. The guy doing Boris's review of costs is also. Gilligan, who is the new Transport Advisor, is not.
Good article in the paper on the construction at Oak Common, which has started.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/27/hs2-still-making-progress-hated-by-some-halted-in-parts-johnson0 -
I was in NZ a decade ago and had a pizza with, and I'm not kidding, raita and crushed tortilla chips on it.kle4 said:
Old NZ recipe apparently.Cyclefree said:
The pasta was overcooked. The pesto not very good. Neither enhanced the potatoes. It was just stodge. Like trying to eat wallpaper paste. Believe me, it was inedible.kle4 said:
I can see how that would indeed be a horror to actual Italians or those of Italian descent as not proper. But how was it actually inedible? How did such a transgression actually impair the taste of 2 good things so much?Cyclefree said:
In a restaurant in Dublin once - and not so very long ago either - they served pasta al pesto and decided to put new potatoes in with it, not on the side mind, but in the middle of the sauce.JohnLilburne said:
I get annoyed with so called "authentic" Italian restaurants in the UK that only have pasta priced as a mainsnipelle.Cyclefree said:
I didn’t like to say ....snipBritish abomination- “spag bol” - to the list, I’d be doing little else.TOPPING said:
An Italian friend once nearly walked out on me when, in a restaurant in Vicenza, I wanted to order pasta as a main course.Cyclefree said:
Well, we proper Italians (ie from the South!) do think that the north east corner of Italy is basically German - and historically much of it was part of Austria- Hungary - so it is not surprising that they don’t know how to cook and eat.DavidL said:
The one mild disapsnip . Too much sausage, too much pork, too many pickles.Cyclefree said:
Mind you they think we’re basically Africans! United countries, eh?
Still, we have more fun.
Covering all the bases for us Irish-Italians, I suppose. It was inedible. But amongst my family I have been dining out on that story ever since.
Did you see the story a few years ago from NZ where the PM made home made pizza with tinned spaghetti on it?
Home-made pizza and tinned spaghetti!!!!! Was it for a bet for the most disgusting thing ever created?
On topic, I think our representatives in Parliament should jolly well show up if they want to vote, not least as a bulwark against undue influence.0 -
Chancellor is. Business Sec is not. It doesn't add up to scrapping it, though goodness knows it makes sense. Would certainly free up a lot of largesse for Boris' other projects.rottenborough said:I have found the answer to the question I posted here the other day about HS2. Observer says that Grant Shapps is pro-HS2. The guy doing Boris's review of costs is also. Gilligan, who is the new Transport Advisor, is not.
Good article in the paper on the construction at Oak Common, which has started.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/27/hs2-still-making-progress-hated-by-some-halted-in-parts-johnson0 -
Another tip would be to stay in Bergamo rather than visit it - it’s swamped with (other!) tourists during the day, but evenings, after the last boats have departed and early mornings before they arrive are delightful. During the day get out of town and go for a walk in the surrounding countryside.malcolmg said:
ThanksCyclefree said:
A month or so later might be better ie April / May / early June. You will likely still get rain and cooler days in March. But if you’re walking best not to have it too hot anyway. There are some lovely smaller and less well-know lakes to visit as well.malcolmg said:
what is best time to visit , like it pleasant but not too hot. Was thinking of going next Marc/April time.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!0 -
Pike is to stupid to have an opinion on anything. He would have done what "Uncle "Arthur told him to do.kinabalu said:I'll be back with the list. Pike was an interesting one.
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Topping (I think) enjoyed this week’s Economist cover - I presume the U.K. one:
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1154780972191277060?s=200 -
It is a curious aspect of the Epstein case that Deutsche Bank still seem uncertain whether it has companies controlled by him as clients or not.Cyclefree said:
Given the level of corruption in the North of Italy the “mani pulite” investigation uncovered, that German politician might want to rethink his claim that northern Italians are just like Germans. Or perhaps he was telling us something about Germans.OnlyLivingBoy said:
A German (CDU politician) once told me that the northern Italians were "just like us" (ie German) but the South was "Africa". The basic rule of European geopolitics is that everyone looks down on people to the South and East of them, with the possible exceptions of us and the Germans, who look down on everyone, us perhaps with less reason.Cyclefree said:
Well, we proper Italians (ie from the South!) do think that the north east corner of Italy is basically German - and historically much of it was part of Austria- Hungary - so it is not surprising that they don’t know how to cook and eat.DavidL said:
The one mild disappointment was the food. It was too Germanic and not nearly enough Italian which is my favourite cuisine in the world. Too much sausage, too much pork, too many pickles.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!
Mind you they think we’re basically Africans! United countries, eh?
Still, we have more fun.
Judging by their banks and the number of undeclared accounts in Luxembourg, Lichtenstein and Switzerland which oh-so-respectable Germans have, they are rather more like the southerners they claim to despise.0 -
The Manchester Evening News correspondent made exactly that observation- about Boris coming into Labour country and driving his armour plated limo over Corbyn’s lawn.....DecrepitJohnL said:
If you read the linked speech, there is much about investment in infrastructure and public services that could have been lifted from Ed Miliband or even Jeremy Corbyn.CarlottaVance said:Boris has a new admirer:
https://twitter.com/goodwinmj/status/1155391362818347009?s=21
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-at-manchester-science-and-industry-museum
Like May he clearly realises (or has been persuaded) that’s there’s a lot more to Brexit than just “the EU”.0 -
No, he was not infrequently the worm that turned.SquareRoot said:
Pike is to stupid to have an opinion on anything. He would have done what "Uncle "Arthur told him to do.kinabalu said:I'll be back with the list. Pike was an interesting one.
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Or does it..... ?DecrepitJohnL said:
If you read the linked speech, there is much about investment in infrastructure and public services that could have been lifted from Ed Miliband or even Jeremy Corbyn.CarlottaVance said:Boris has a new admirer:
https://twitter.com/goodwinmj/status/1155391362818347009?s=21
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-at-manchester-science-and-industry-museum
But was Jacob Rees-Mogg involved in the casting of this sentence: And proposals drastically to reduce waiting times for GP appointments which avoids a split infinitive but dumps drastically in entirely the wrong place?
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This is one of the issues with being over-rigid about the split infinitive.DecrepitJohnL said:
If you read the linked speech, there is much about investment in infrastructure and public services that could have been lifted from Ed Miliband or even Jeremy Corbyn.CarlottaVance said:Boris has a new admirer:
https://twitter.com/goodwinmj/status/1155391362818347009?s=21
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-at-manchester-science-and-industry-museum
But was Jacob Rees-Mogg involved in the casting of this sentence: And proposals drastically to reduce waiting times for GP appointments which avoids a split infinitive but dumps drastically in entirely the wrong place?
Could have been: "proposals to reduce, drastically, waiting times..."
The famous Star Trek example is a case in point:
"to boldly go"
But the alternatives actually don't sound correct and certainly don't bear the repetition every episode.
Raymond Chandler famously wrote to a magazine editor to say: "when I split an infinitive, God damn it, I split it so it will stay split."0 -
Rees_Mogg would have you shot at dawn for "not infrequently".Nigelb said:
No, he was not infrequently the worm that turned.SquareRoot said:
Pike is to stupid to have an opinion on anything. He would have done what "Uncle "Arthur told him to do.kinabalu said:I'll be back with the list. Pike was an interesting one.
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Dreadfully speculative, but I'm guessing it won't feature a Boris bounce. Plaid surge?williamglenn said:0 -
I am glad you were cleared. A friend of mine has just completed her therapy and seems to be ok, but another friend who had it worse says that you never truly recover...Cyclefree said:I had a similar experience a few years ago when I was told I likely had breast cancer. The time between being told this and final diagnosis when they said no it wasn’t was some of the loneliest of my life because I simply did not want to burden my family with the knowledge.
On your other point about not burdening the family, I knew someone 30 years ago whose father died very unexpectedly and the family took it badly. A few months later the mother died of cancer. She knew she was terminal but, initially, did not want to burden the family with it. When her husband died she could not find the right way to fess up until she was on her death-bed.
The family were devastated and the youngest son suffered mental health issues for years afterwards. He never truly recovered.
Indeed.Cyclefree said:It does make you reassess your priorities. In part, it led to my decision to retire from full-time work. ... There comes a point when you realise this is no way to live and you owe it to your children - if not yourself - to call a halt.
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Five parties all on 20%?williamglenn said:0 -
I would expect it to be bad news for labour but if so, that is long overdueTheuniondivvie said:
Dreadfully speculative, but I'm guessing it won't feature a Boris bounce. Plaid surge?williamglenn said:0 -
Hodges would vote the opposite of Mainwaring just to spite him.ydoethur said:
I have Mainwaring Leaver, Jones Leaver, Frazer Leaver, Hodges Leaver, Vicar Leaver, Verger Leaver.kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
Then Godfrey Remainer, WAlker Remainer.
And Pike and Wilson as toss-ups.
Any differences?
0 -
Not if I got him first.SquareRoot said:
Rees_Mogg would have you shot at dawn for "not infrequently".Nigelb said:
No, he was not infrequently the worm that turned.SquareRoot said:
Pike is to stupid to have an opinion on anything. He would have done what "Uncle "Arthur told him to do.kinabalu said:I'll be back with the list. Pike was an interesting one.
☺0 -
0
-
Pizza? Never touch the stuff. Frothy coffee (Cappuchinnno) with choc dusting is THE way to start the day (after the green tea, toast, marmalade and cornflakes).Cyclefree said:I didn’t like to say ......It is quite lonely enough fighting a rearguard action for proper coffee and pizza. If I have to add pasta - and that peculiar British abomination- “spag bol” - to the list, I’d be doing little else.
The best meal I ever had in an Italian restaurant was steak, chips and mushrooms. The worst Italian restaurant I ever ate in was on a back-street in Venice.0 -
“a genuinely historic poll for Welsh politics” can only mean one thing surely?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect it to be bad news for labour but if so, that is long overdueTheuniondivvie said:
Dreadfully speculative, but I'm guessing it won't feature a Boris bounce. Plaid surge?williamglenn said:
The Libs were huge here once.
Labour were huge here until recently.
The Cons have had their good times.
That just leaves Plaid Cymru.0 -
He is always finding dramatic Welsh polls. He had one in 2017 predicting a Tory landslide. And one before the Euros with a Brexit landslide.williamglenn said:
My guess is its Labour's position that is causing much of the drama. They have replaced competent but slippy Carwyn with incompetent & dowdy Mark.
Llafur is a party with a grim reckoning waiting for it. You can't govern a country for 20 years, and leave it more poor, backward and corrupt than when you started. After the destruction of SLAB, Fianna Fail and the Italian Christian Democrats, Llafur may be the most institutionally corrupt party that remains in Western Europe.
The reckoning is close at hand.0 -
How long have people been pointing this out to them?Sandpit said:
It’s finally dawning on people who support remain at any cost, that JC isn’t on their side...CarlottaVance said:
0 -
Mainwaring would have been a BXP candidate I suspect.SquareRoot said:
Pike is to stupid to have an opinion on anything. He would have done what "Uncle "Arthur told him to do.kinabalu said:I'll be back with the list. Pike was an interesting one.
☺0 -
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s0 -
0
-
In the poll from May, the combined Labour + Tory vote was down to 42%. I would guess that trend has continued.StuartDickson said:
“a genuinely historic poll for Welsh politics” can only mean one thing surely?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect it to be bad news for labour but if so, that is long overdueTheuniondivvie said:
Dreadfully speculative, but I'm guessing it won't feature a Boris bounce. Plaid surge?williamglenn said:
The Libs were huge here once.
Labour were huge here until recently.
The Cons have had their good times.
That just leaves Plaid Cymru.0 -
Jeremy Corbyn is on the side of Jeremy Corbyn. Nothing more, nothing less.Floater said:
How long have people been pointing this out to them?Sandpit said:
It’s finally dawning on people who support remain at any cost, that JC isn’t on their side...CarlottaVance said:0 -
For a moment I thought the picture alongside the story was a younger Ruth!Nigelb said:0 -
Parliament needs modernising and proxy voting is a good idea. Don't think it would have helped the Sheffield situation though. As a Hallam voter who has met O'Mara (choosing my words carefully) I empathize with his preexisting conditions, but even if the Labour party offered him substantial support, I don't think it would have helped even if he had taken it. His mind was not on the job and he has a penchant for more enjoyable activities than being an MP.0
-
HS2 makes sense IMO. Scrapping it does not.Luckyguy1983 said:
Chancellor is. Business Sec is not. It doesn't add up to scrapping it, though goodness knows it makes sense. Would certainly free up a lot of largesse for Boris' other projects.rottenborough said:I have found the answer to the question I posted here the other day about HS2. Observer says that Grant Shapps is pro-HS2. The guy doing Boris's review of costs is also. Gilligan, who is the new Transport Advisor, is not.
Good article in the paper on the construction at Oak Common, which has started.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/27/hs2-still-making-progress-hated-by-some-halted-in-parts-johnson
It probably comes down to one main question: do you believe that the increase in passengers (especially long-distance) that the railways have seen over the last 25 years will continue for another decade or two? If it does, then the case for an HS2-style project is rather strong. If you do not, it is weaker.
That is the gamble. And the damned thing about it is that you cannot just wait and do it later: such infrastructure projects take so long that planning needs to be started decades in advance of the demand.
If we do not do it, the costs to the economy could be strong. Imagine if we'd not built the motorway network in the 1960s and 1970s (and even then we can argue it was done in a penny-pinching manner).
However the figures show a very strong growth in demand for railway papssenger traffic, even when new technologies such as the Internet have threatened the need for travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Annual_passenger_numbers0 -
It makes sense if it goes through the part of England known as "Tory Vote (Central)". Boris may well be chasing the NIMBY vote.JosiasJessop said:HS2 makes sense IMO. Scrapping it does not
0 -
I can confirm that tinned spaghetti on pizza is a thing in NZ. Made by housewives of a certain generation.
For added barbarism, the pizza base is often made from flaky pastry.
PS, there is no doubt in my mind that both Mainwaring and Wilson were Remainers.0 -
On the subject of premature or unexpected death, nearly six years ago my daughter, at 49, was diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease. She and her husband had just reached 'full empty nest'; both offspring had graduated and were setting out on careers. She died some six months later; since then her husband has more or less rebuilt his life; he's done some things he wouldn't have if she was still alive...... bought a motor bike for one thing. She hated them! However he's completed all the alterations they planned for the house and now feels he can move on and sell it.
She always knew her son was 'very interested in' a girl in his year at school; it's a source of great sadness to Mrs C & myself that she didn't see them engaged, let alone married.
One thing she did do, in her last days, was call all her family to see her alone, one by one, and give them her last wishes for them. That has made a considerable difference to some.
Moving on for all of us has been difficult but what is the alternative?
1 -
Was at a comedy event last night where one of the comedians (millennial) eviscerated the boomers. As a gen-xer I felt like a non combatant but it was biting and very funny. There is a lot of anger out there at the postwar generation. Not all of it's fair. But most of it is.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s0 -
https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1155414194981916672?s=20
Ruth dead set against separate SCon party....0 -
And then, to put the boot in, they voted Brexit in order to crush the economic prospects of younger generations.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s0 -
The Brecon-ing is close at handYBarddCwsc said:
He is always finding dramatic Welsh polls. He had one in 2017 predicting a Tory landslide. And one before the Euros with a Brexit landslide.williamglenn said:
My guess is its Labour's position that is causing much of the drama. They have replaced competent but slippy Carwyn with incompetent & dowdy Mark.
Llafur is a party with a grim reckoning waiting for it. You can't govern a country for 20 years, and leave it more poor, backward and corrupt than when you started. After the destruction of SLAB, Fianna Fail and the Italian Christian Democrats, Llafur may be the most institutionally corrupt party that remains in Western Europe.
The reckoning is close at hand.
0 -
Don’t forget freight, behind which lies a lot of the business case for HS2.JosiasJessop said:
HS2 makes sense IMO. Scrapping it does not.Luckyguy1983 said:
Chancellor is. Business Sec is not. It doesn't add up to scrapping it, though goodness knows it makes sense. Would certainly free up a lot of largesse for Boris' other projects.rottenborough said:I have found the answer to the question I posted here the other day about HS2. Observer says that Grant Shapps is pro-HS2. The guy doing Boris's review of costs is also. Gilligan, who is the new Transport Advisor, is not.
Good article in the paper on the construction at Oak Common, which has started.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/27/hs2-still-making-progress-hated-by-some-halted-in-parts-johnson
It probably comes down to one main question: do you believe that the increase in passengers (especially long-distance) that the railways have seen over the last 25 years will continue for another decade or two? If it does, then the case for an HS2-style project is rather strong. If you do not, it is weaker.
That is the gamble. And the damned thing about it is that you cannot just wait and do it later: such infrastructure projects take so long that planning needs to be started decades in advance of the demand.
If we do not do it, the costs to the economy could be strong. Imagine if we'd not built the motorway network in the 1960s and 1970s (and even then we can argue it was done in a penny-pinching manner).
However the figures show a very strong growth in demand for railway papssenger traffic, even when new technologies such as the Internet have threatened the need for travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Annual_passenger_numbers
I completely dispair at attitudes to major infrastructure projects. Brunel build the Great Western railway in three years, from the enabling Act of Parliament to having the first train run from London to Bristol. With no machines. London’s airports came almost to a standstill last week, as a big thunderstorm scattered planes all over the country and there wasn’t enough capacity to deal with it.
0 -
This guy comes across as one to watch for future:
https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/11554105116028805120 -
Gardenwalker said:
And then, to put the boot in, they voted Brexit in order to crush the economic prospects of younger generations.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s
0 -
Hedge fund guy married to an Infosys heiress. I don’t think he worries too much about the odd pound.rottenborough said:This guy comes across as one to watch for future:
https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/11554105116028805120 -
OnlyLivingBoy said:
Was at a comedy event last night where one of the comedians (millennial) eviscerated the boomers. As a gen-xer I felt like a non combatant but it was biting and very funny. There is a lot of anger out there at the postwar generation. Not all of it's fair. But most of it is.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s 0 -
They appear to have place Peter Kay's photo at the top in error.williamglenn said:
RK has zero ability to shape the trajectory of Boris' Brexit Gotterdammerung so it doesn't matter a tuppenny fuck whether she supports it or not.0 -
Con 31Theuniondivvie said:Is this PB Penddu?
https://twitter.com/Penddu2/status/1155414873263812614?s=20
Lab 23
Plaid 15
LD 15
BRP 13 at a guess0 -
To repeat earlier points made, Parliament can prevent a No Deal IF it is prepared to install a new PM having passed VNOC in Johnson.DavidL said:
I don't believe that Parliament can actually prevent a no deal if the PM is determined enough. There simply isn't the time or the mechanisms to allow legislation to stop it and a VoNC and election means no deal Brexit happens by default.Dadge said:
Nope. There's no mechanism for presenting parliament with a choice between two options. Faced with two separate votes, the WA and No Deal will both be voted down again. It would be good if a couple of dozen Labour MPs voted for the WA in order to bring this first stage of Brexit to an end finally, but as far as I'm aware it's not happening.DavidL said:
Agreed, the Commons is going to be presented with deal or no deal. The deal will basically be May's deal and if they are persuaded that no deal is a genuine threat then it may well pass. May herself was never even remotely credible about this which allowed remainers to oppose everything without consequence.SandyRentool said:
FPT:AndyJS said:"No-deal Brexit now 'assumed' by government, says Gove"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49141375
I reckon Gove's talk of working on the basis of No Deal is just part of a softening up exercise to allow Bozo to bring May's Deal by Another Name (Maydan Brexit) back to Parliament with the hope of ramming it through.
If they are persuaded that Boris will let this happen then the choice finally becomes binary. May was always clear that it wouldn't which is why she is now an ex PM. It may be reckless (particularly when essential legislation for no deal has not even been passed) but it might also work.0 -
I've always believed that Ruth was constitutionally (in both senses) opposed to a separate SCon party, but what other leverage does she have? Wait it out till Boris crashes and burns? Waiting to see what type of Tory party remains in the smoking wreckage is a pretty big gamble in itself.CarlottaVance said:https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1155414194981916672?s=20
Ruth dead set against separate SCon party....0 -
Mainwaring would vote remain for head over heart reasons. Wilson is a smug elitist so would be for Remain. Pike would vote Remain because his Uncle Arthur (really his dad, right?) voted that way and because he is a bit of an idealist. Agreed Godfrey is a Remainer - he would see the EU as a way of everybody being nice and getting along. The rest would be Leavers, except for Walker who is an obvious non-voter.ydoethur said:
I have Mainwaring Leaver, Jones Leaver, Frazer Leaver, Hodges Leaver, Vicar Leaver, Verger Leaver.kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
Then Godfrey Remainer, WAlker Remainer.
And Pike and Wilson as toss-ups.
Any differences?0 -
And pineapple.....Gardenwalker said:I can confirm that tinned spaghetti on pizza is a thing in NZ. Made by housewives of a certain generation.
For added barbarism, the pizza base is often made from flaky pastry.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/06/tinned-spaghetti-pizza-new-zealands-prime-minister-shocks-with-monstrous-recipe1 -
You mean future generations wont be able to leave university £50k in debt before renting a room in Walthamstow for £600 a month ?Gardenwalker said:
And then, to put the boot in, they voted Brexit in order to crush the economic prospects of younger generations.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s0 -
In 2011 my MP Guy Oppermann along with Labour MP Paul Blomfield missed many months with brain tumours. Both thankfully recovered, but it is somewhat ridiculous we were denied representation for an extended period over something which could happen to anyone. It is equally silly to suggest they ought to resign, not least because they are entitled to similar employment rights as anyone else. Proxies seem the answer.0
-
Thank youCarlottaVance said:
Another tip would be to stay in Bergamo rather than visit it - it’s swamped with (other!) tourists during the day, but evenings, after the last boats have departed and early mornings before they arrive are delightful. During the day get out of town and go for a walk in the surrounding countryside.malcolmg said:
ThanksCyclefree said:
A month or so later might be better ie April / May / early June. You will likely still get rain and cooler days in March. But if you’re walking best not to have it too hot anyway. There are some lovely smaller and less well-know lakes to visit as well.malcolmg said:
what is best time to visit , like it pleasant but not too hot. Was thinking of going next Marc/April time.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!0 -
Isn't her problem that the SCons have their fair share of hardcore Brexiteers, so creating a separate SCon party wouldn't solve the problem?Theuniondivvie said:
I've always believed that Ruth was constitutionally (in both senses) opposed to a separate SCon party, but what other leverage does she have? Wait it out till Boris crashes and burns? Waiting to see what type of Tory party remains in the smoking wreckage is a pretty big gamble in itself.CarlottaVance said:https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1155414194981916672?s=20
Ruth dead set against separate SCon party....0 -
The situation with freight is more confused. The expansion that we have seen in passenger numbers since privatisation has not occurred with freight tonnage-miles. However there are two reasons for that:Sandpit said:
Don’t forget freight, behind which lies a lot of the business case for HS2.JosiasJessop said:
HS2 makes sense IMO. Scrapping it does not.Luckyguy1983 said:
Chancellor is. Business Sec is not. It doesn't add up to scrapping it, though goodness knows it makes sense. Would certainly free up a lot of largesse for Boris' other projects.rottenborough said:I have found the answer to the question I posted here the other day about HS2. Observer says that Grant Shapps is pro-HS2. The guy doing Boris's review of costs is also. Gilligan, who is the new Transport Advisor, is not.
Good article in the paper on the construction at Oak Common, which has started.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/27/hs2-still-making-progress-hated-by-some-halted-in-parts-johnson
It probably comes down to one main question: do you believe that the increase in passengers (especially long-distance) that the railways have seen over the last 25 years will continue for another decade or two? If it does, then the case for an HS2-style project is rather strong. If you do not, it is weaker.
That is the gamble. And the damned thing about it is that you cannot just wait and do it later: such infrastructure projects take so long that planning needs to be started decades in advance of the demand.
If we do not do it, the costs to the economy could be strong. Imagine if we'd not built the motorway network in the 1960s and 1970s (and even then we can argue it was done in a penny-pinching manner).
However the figures show a very strong growth in demand for railway papssenger traffic, even when new technologies such as the Internet have threatened the need for travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Annual_passenger_numbers
I completely dispair at attitudes to major infrastructure projects. Brunel build the Great Western railway in three years, from the enabling Act of Parliament to having the first train run from London to Bristol. With no machines. London’s airports came almost to a standstill last week, as a big thunderstorm scattered planes all over the country and there wasn’t enough capacity to deal with it.
*) The expansion of passenger numbers has reduced the number of paths available to freight, which is politically less of a priority.
*) Much of our railway network was based on hauling coal, and the market for coal (especially power generation) has nearly disappeared over the last two decades.1 -
Walker dare not be on the electoral role.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Mainwaring would vote remain for head over heart reasons. Wilson is a smug elitist so would be for Remain. Pike would vote Remain because his Uncle Arthur (really his dad, right?) voted that way and because he is a bit of an idealist. Agreed Godfrey is a Remainer - he would see the EU as a way of everybody being nice and getting along. The rest would be Leavers, except for Walker who is an obvious non-voter.ydoethur said:
I have Mainwaring Leaver, Jones Leaver, Frazer Leaver, Hodges Leaver, Vicar Leaver, Verger Leaver.kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
Then Godfrey Remainer, WAlker Remainer.
And Pike and Wilson as toss-ups.
Any differences?0 -
Yup, we need to stop fannying around and build stuff. Hopefully this will happen with Johnson and Labour now basically on the same page. Stopping HS2 would be the final sign that this country has lost the plot completely. Of course it will be massively over budget. It's still worth it.Sandpit said:
Don’t forget freight, behind which lies a lot of the business case for HS2.JosiasJessop said:
HS2 makes sense IMO. Scrapping it does not.Luckyguy1983 said:
Chancellor is. Business Sec is not. It doesn't add up to scrapping it, though goodness knows it makes sense. Would certainly free up a lot of largesse for Boris' other projects.rottenborough said:I have found the answer to the question I posted here the other day about HS2. Observer says that Grant Shapps is pro-HS2. The guy doing Boris's review of costs is also. Gilligan, who is the new Transport Advisor, is not.
Good article in the paper on the construction at Oak Common, which has started.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/27/hs2-still-making-progress-hated-by-some-halted-in-parts-johnson
It probably comes down to one main question: do you believe that the increase in passengers (especially long-distance) that the railways have seen over the last 25 years will continue for another decade or two? If it does, then the case for an HS2-style project is rather strong. If you do not, it is weaker.
That is the gamble. And the damned thing about it is that you cannot just wait and do it later: such infrastructure projects take so long that planning needs to be started decades in advance of the demand.
If we do not do it, the costs to the economy could be strong. Imagine if we'd not built the motorway network in the 1960s and 1970s (and even then we can argue it was done in a penny-pinching manner).
However the figures show a very strong growth in demand for railway papssenger traffic, even when new technologies such as the Internet have threatened the need for travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Annual_passenger_numbers
I completely dispair at attitudes to major infrastructure projects. Brunel build the Great Western railway in three years, from the enabling Act of Parliament to having the first train run from London to Bristol. With no machines. London’s airports came almost to a standstill last week, as a big thunderstorm scattered planes all over the country and there wasn’t enough capacity to deal with it.1 -
Walker was a spiv and black marketeer so his view might depend on whether he saw EU gangs as dangerous rivals or as useful smugglers and wholesalers of cheap cigarettes and other contraband.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Mainwaring would vote remain for head over heart reasons. Wilson is a smug elitist so would be for Remain. Pike would vote Remain because his Uncle Arthur (really his dad, right?) voted that way and because he is a bit of an idealist. Agreed Godfrey is a Remainer - he would see the EU as a way of everybody being nice and getting along. The rest would be Leavers, except for Walker who is an obvious non-voter.ydoethur said:
I have Mainwaring Leaver, Jones Leaver, Frazer Leaver, Hodges Leaver, Vicar Leaver, Verger Leaver.kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
Then Godfrey Remainer, WAlker Remainer.
And Pike and Wilson as toss-ups.
Any differences?0 -
Was surprised to hear that the London party was so skint they had to tap teh Scottish mob in April so they could pay the wagesCarlottaVance said:https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1155414194981916672?s=20
Ruth dead set against separate SCon party....0 -
Brexit makes it even worse.another_richard said:
You mean future generations wont be able to leave university £50k in debt before renting a room in Walthamstow for £600 a month ?Gardenwalker said:
And then, to put the boot in, they voted Brexit in order to crush the economic prospects of younger generations.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s
The boomers screwed the pooch.0 -
Sad story OKC, commiserations a tough blow indeed.OldKingCole said:On the subject of premature or unexpected death, nearly six years ago my daughter, at 49, was diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease. She and her husband had just reached 'full empty nest'; both offspring had graduated and were setting out on careers. She died some six months later; since then her husband has more or less rebuilt his life; he's done some things he wouldn't have if she was still alive...... bought a motor bike for one thing. She hated them! However he's completed all the alterations they planned for the house and now feels he can move on and sell it.
She always knew her son was 'very interested in' a girl in his year at school; it's a source of great sadness to Mrs C & myself that she didn't see them engaged, let alone married.
One thing she did do, in her last days, was call all her family to see her alone, one by one, and give them her last wishes for them. That has made a considerable difference to some.
Moving on for all of us has been difficult but what is the alternative?2 -
The actual picture was a younger one more likeOldKingCole said:
For a moment I thought the picture alongside the story was a younger Ruth!Nigelb said:0 -
W
Sorry - “Bellagio” not Bergamo (which is an historic town too, but not on Lake Como, And is the airport RyanAir fly to).malcolmg said:
Thank youCarlottaVance said:
Another tip would be to stay in Bergamo rather than visit it - it’s swamped with (other!) tourists during the day, but evenings, after the last boats have departed and early mornings before they arrive are delightful. During the day get out of town and go for a walk in the surrounding countryside.malcolmg said:
ThanksCyclefree said:
A month or so later might be better ie April / May / early June. You will likely still get rain and cooler days in March. But if you’re walking best not to have it too hot anyway. There are some lovely smaller and less well-know lakes to visit as well.malcolmg said:
what is best time to visit , like it pleasant but not too hot. Was thinking of going next Marc/April time.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!
https://lakecomotravel.com/bellagio/0 -
That's true, but Ruth having a grip on their prospects rather than them coasting on the coat tails of their Westminster 'daddies' may be preferable. In a schism who would have control over MPs could get very messy of course.williamglenn said:
Isn't her problem that the SCons have their fair share of hardcore Brexiteers, so creating a separate SCon party wouldn't solve the problem?Theuniondivvie said:
I've always believed that Ruth was constitutionally (in both senses) opposed to a separate SCon party, but what other leverage does she have? Wait it out till Boris crashes and burns? Waiting to see what type of Tory party remains in the smoking wreckage is a pretty big gamble in itself.CarlottaVance said:https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1155414194981916672?s=20
Ruth dead set against separate SCon party....0 -
The millennials and boomers would do well to remember there is a generation in between them which isn't particularly enamoured of either of them.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Was at a comedy event last night where one of the comedians (millennial) eviscerated the boomers. As a gen-xer I felt like a non combatant but it was biting and very funny. There is a lot of anger out there at the postwar generation. Not all of it's fair. But most of it is.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s0 -
They are as split as the London mobwilliamglenn said:
Isn't her problem that the SCons have their fair share of hardcore Brexiteers, so creating a separate SCon party wouldn't solve the problem?Theuniondivvie said:
I've always believed that Ruth was constitutionally (in both senses) opposed to a separate SCon party, but what other leverage does she have? Wait it out till Boris crashes and burns? Waiting to see what type of Tory party remains in the smoking wreckage is a pretty big gamble in itself.CarlottaVance said:https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1155414194981916672?s=20
Ruth dead set against separate SCon party....0 -
Exactly - they will be lucky if the debt levels and rentals are as low as that...another_richard said:
You mean future generations wont be able to leave university £50k in debt before renting a room in Walthamstow for £600 a month ?Gardenwalker said:
And then, to put the boot in, they voted Brexit in order to crush the economic prospects of younger generations.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s
On a more serious note, how long will it be before the "Student Loan" problem reaches the point that it cannot be ignored? It is already over £120bn and growing
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN010790 -
I don't agree with giving proxy votes for long-term sick, we do elect individuals still and allowing that basically makes MPs no more than party stooges who can give their vote to a whip to take the party line while drawing a massive salary and not doing the job or being accountable to the public.
If an MP is too ill to do their job then with regret they should take the Chiltern Hundreds and after a by-election find a new individual who is capable.
Parental leave is a rather unique exception in that the MP is temporarily absent for very special circumstances. People like Jared who are incapable of doing the job should simply not do the job.
I'd have more empathy for short-term rather than long-term illnesses but even then I think that the individuals elected should cast their votes or they shouldn't be cast at all.
As for the point that MPs incapable of doign what they were elected to do might not resign because they're worried that their party might lose the seat - that surely should emphasise precisely why they should resign. The long-established principle is that if an MP resigns the seat does not simply get retained by their party, it is for the electorate to decide. If the electorate may wish to elect a different party then circumventing the electorates will by allowing the MP to effectively resign-by-proxy and keep the seat is undemocratic.
PS even if we accept the principle of long-term sick, 12 months is an exceptionally long time. Statutory Sick Pay lasts for 6 months not 12 as a maximum and I see no reason to exceed that. If we go down this path then 6 months as a cap seems reasonable considering it is a cap for the general public that rely upon SSP - and I would say the MP concerned should not get a penny more than SSP while they are absent.1 -
Wasn't HS2 originally supposed to cost £30bn which has now morphed into £80bn ?Sandpit said:
Don’t forget freight, behind which lies a lot of the business case for HS2.JosiasJessop said:
HS2 makes sense IMO. Scrapping it does not.Luckyguy1983 said:
Chancellor is. Business Sec is not. It doesn't add up to scrapping it, though goodness knows it makes sense. Would certainly free up a lot of largesse for Boris' other projects.
It probably comes down to one main question: do you believe that the increase in passengers (especially long-distance) that the railways have seen over the last 25 years will continue for another decade or two? If it does, then the case for an HS2-style project is rather strong. If you do not, it is weaker.
That is the gamble. And the damned thing about it is that you cannot just wait and do it later: such infrastructure projects take so long that planning needs to be started decades in advance of the demand.
If we do not do it, the costs to the economy could be strong. Imagine if we'd not built the motorway network in the 1960s and 1970s (and even then we can argue it was done in a penny-pinching manner).
However the figures show a very strong growth in demand for railway papssenger traffic, even when new technologies such as the Internet have threatened the need for travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Annual_passenger_numbers
I completely dispair at attitudes to major infrastructure projects. Brunel build the Great Western railway in three years, from the enabling Act of Parliament to having the first train run from London to Bristol. With no machines. London’s airports came almost to a standstill last week, as a big thunderstorm scattered planes all over the country and there wasn’t enough capacity to deal with it.
I wonder if the HS2 supporters could say what price is too high for HS2 ? Or is there no price which is too high ?
And I love the changing justification - its for faster travel, its to help the North, its to increase capacity, its to increase capacity around London, its for freight.
When the reasons for doing something keep changing the alarm bells start sounding.
You're right about how crap this country is at doing major projects - perhaps we should place a time limit on them, nothing which takes longer than a world war should be allowed. Anything else leads to ever lengthening costs.0 -
He'd be running 'a political consulting firm which combined data mining, data brokerage, and data analysis with strategic communication during the electoral processes'.rottenborough said:
Walker dare not be on the electoral role.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Mainwaring would vote remain for head over heart reasons. Wilson is a smug elitist so would be for Remain. Pike would vote Remain because his Uncle Arthur (really his dad, right?) voted that way and because he is a bit of an idealist. Agreed Godfrey is a Remainer - he would see the EU as a way of everybody being nice and getting along. The rest would be Leavers, except for Walker who is an obvious non-voter.ydoethur said:
I have Mainwaring Leaver, Jones Leaver, Frazer Leaver, Hodges Leaver, Vicar Leaver, Verger Leaver.kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
Then Godfrey Remainer, WAlker Remainer.
And Pike and Wilson as toss-ups.
Any differences?
0 -
Which is best then Como or GardaCarlottaVance said:W
Sorry - “Bellagio” not Bergamo (which is an historic town too, but not on Lake Como, And is the airport RyanAir fly to).malcolmg said:
Thank youCarlottaVance said:
Another tip would be to stay in Bergamo rather than visit it - it’s swamped with (other!) tourists during the day, but evenings, after the last boats have departed and early mornings before they arrive are delightful. During the day get out of town and go for a walk in the surrounding countryside.malcolmg said:
ThanksCyclefree said:
A month or so later might be better ie April / May / early June. You will likely still get rain and cooler days in March. But if you’re walking best not to have it too hot anyway. There are some lovely smaller and less well-know lakes to visit as well.malcolmg said:
what is best time to visit , like it pleasant but not too hot. Was thinking of going next Marc/April time.Cyclefree said:
The whole area is beautiful and there are some lovely town to see as well - Bergamo, for instance. Nice wines too.DavidL said:
I was at lake Garda 2 years ago. It was brilliant. Pretty vigorous walking though. Rarely seen such steep hills.Cyclefree said:I see that Mrs May has gone on a Cyclefree style holiday in Lake Garda. A beautiful place. Sensible woman.
How soon can we start missing her?!
https://lakecomotravel.com/bellagio/0 -
I wonder if The Guardian have ever used "monstrous" to describe the UK's grooming gangs?CarlottaVance said:
And pineapple.....Gardenwalker said:I can confirm that tinned spaghetti on pizza is a thing in NZ. Made by housewives of a certain generation.
For added barbarism, the pizza base is often made from flaky pastry.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/06/tinned-spaghetti-pizza-new-zealands-prime-minister-shocks-with-monstrous-recipe1 -
Thanks Mr G. Appreciated.malcolmg said:
Sad story OKC, commiserations a tough blow indeed.OldKingCole said:On the subject of premature or unexpected death, nearly six years ago my daughter, at 49, was diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease. She and her husband had just reached 'full empty nest'; both offspring had graduated and were setting out on careers. She died some six months later; since then her husband has more or less rebuilt his life; he's done some things he wouldn't have if she was still alive...... bought a motor bike for one thing. She hated them! However he's completed all the alterations they planned for the house and now feels he can move on and sell it.
She always knew her son was 'very interested in' a girl in his year at school; it's a source of great sadness to Mrs C & myself that she didn't see them engaged, let alone married.
One thing she did do, in her last days, was call all her family to see her alone, one by one, and give them her last wishes for them. That has made a considerable difference to some.
Moving on for all of us has been difficult but what is the alternative?0 -
What's the projected demand for HS2 in say 100 passenger miles/year ?
What surcharge would be needed to tickets to get say a 30 year payback on construction costs ?0 -
I don't know what the plan is but it looks like the bad debt shite will soon have to hit the government fan:Beibheirli_C said:
Exactly - they will be lucky if the debt levels and rentals are as low as that...another_richard said:
You mean future generations wont be able to leave university £50k in debt before renting a room in Walthamstow for £600 a month ?Gardenwalker said:
And then, to put the boot in, they voted Brexit in order to crush the economic prospects of younger generations.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s
On a more serious note, how long will it be before the "Student Loan" problem reaches the point that it cannot be ignored? It is already over £120bn and growing
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01079
A change in how student loans are recorded in the public finances will add £12bn to the deficit, following an Office for National Statistics ruling.
The amount expected not to be repaid, which could be 45% of lending, will be reclassified as public spending.
Student loans will now significantly push up the UK's deficit - providing an incentive to reduce tuition fees.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-465915000 -
Theuniondivvie said:
He'd be running 'a political consulting firm which combined data mining, data brokerage, and data analysis with strategic communication during the electoral processes'.rottenborough said:
Walker dare not be on the electoral role.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Mainwaring would vote remain for head over heart reasons. Wilson is a smug elitist so would be for Remain. Pike would vote Remain because his Uncle Arthur (really his dad, right?) voted that way and because he is a bit of an idealist. Agreed Godfrey is a Remainer - he would see the EU as a way of everybody being nice and getting along. The rest would be Leavers, except for Walker who is an obvious non-voter.ydoethur said:
I have Mainwaring Leaver, Jones Leaver, Frazer Leaver, Hodges Leaver, Vicar Leaver, Verger Leaver.kinabalu said:Caught a bit of Dad's Army yesterday, by accident but ended up being sucked in. Not by the plot, silly and full of holes, but by the characters, Mainwaring, Wilson, Jones, Frazer etc. If you park the obvious concern over the outdated mores and the lack of diversity they are highly watchable. And it struck me that nobody has ever, at least not to my knowledge, speculated as to how each of them would have voted in the 2016 Referendum, ceteris paribus. So I decided to rectify this and I spent a 'very' (sorry Jacob) pleasant few minutes doing the exercise. Will not go through all the names (save to say that Mainwaring was passionate Leave and Wilson was prevaricating until polling day) but the result was nothing like 52/48 or 48/52. It was a Leave Landslide. And I do mean LANDSLIDE. Make of this what you will. Says something profound and important about Brexit? Or signifies absolutely nothing and thus a complete waste of time?
Then Godfrey Remainer, WAlker Remainer.
And Pike and Wilson as toss-ups.
Any differences? 0 -
If capacity is an issue then it won't just be surcharge needed? Generic charges alone would also pay towards construction costs.Pulpstar said:What's the projected demand for HS2 in say 100 passenger miles/year ?
What surcharge would be needed to tickets to get say a 30 year payback on construction costs ?0 -
300,000 passengers per day according to HS2 themselves.Pulpstar said:What's the projected demand for HS2 in say 100 passenger miles/year ?
What surcharge would be needed to tickets to get say a 30 year payback on construction costs ?
The plan is 48 trains per hour across the network. If the service runs say 20 hours a day then I make that ≈ 300 passengers per train average.0 -
The Conservative Party's disingenuous (if not dishonest) response to Corbyn floating the idea of write-offs meant the issue got parked once more.another_richard said:
I don't know what the plan is but it looks like the bad debt shite will soon have to hit the government fan:Beibheirli_C said:
Exactly - they will be lucky if the debt levels and rentals are as low as that...another_richard said:
You mean future generations wont be able to leave university £50k in debt before renting a room in Walthamstow for £600 a month ?Gardenwalker said:
And then, to put the boot in, they voted Brexit in order to crush the economic prospects of younger generations.Beibheirli_C said:
Largely true I suspect. I have come to the conclusion that many of that generation (the Baby Boomers) are possibly amongst the most selfish ever born. Free healthcare, free education, excellent pension schemes, high levels of employment, good housing, etc and then they pull the ladders up behind them and demand an extra £350m a week for their healthcare and free TV licences.OldKingCole said:IIRC the generation, like mine and a bit older who actually lived through the war were/are Remainers. It's their younger brothers and sisters, brought up on the likes of Biggles and The Great Escape who are Leavers.
My sympathies are entirely with the under 40s
On a more serious note, how long will it be before the "Student Loan" problem reaches the point that it cannot be ignored? It is already over £120bn and growing
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01079
A change in how student loans are recorded in the public finances will add £12bn to the deficit, following an Office for National Statistics ruling.
The amount expected not to be repaid, which could be 45% of lending, will be reclassified as public spending.
Student loans will now significantly push up the UK's deficit - providing an incentive to reduce tuition fees.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46591500
Like much of the debate around the national finances, or about pensions, it is in large part a matter of accountancy. As the article says, this is not about spending or saving but rather about how what has already been spent is classified.0
