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Does he beat Starmer, after the new Labour ldr has had months and a whole campaign of publicity?HYUFD said:
Boris beats Corbyn with a comfortable majorityGallowgate said:
But Corbyn would win again and then what?rottenborough said:
Stand against Corbyn and finally bring this civil war to its head?Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1149063200106848256?s=21
Obligatory “so what are you going to do about it??”0 -
Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.0
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"And what was it that first attracted you to the job of auditing the Labour Party for anti semitism, Baroness Chakrabarti?"Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/labourpress/status/1149057374155620357ydoethur said:The most embarrassing thing about this for Labour is the bizarre nature of their statement in response. It's so badly put together and unconvincing you would think Jeffrey Archer would blench at it.
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It was not on BBC in Wales.kle4 said:
Even the keyboard warrior outriders will know in their heart of hearts that what they have to tweet is a load of nonsenserottenborough said:
I think that is pretty optimistic. If there are a few things the internet age has taught us it is the value of the enthusiastic amateur (so most don't need to be paid to write garbage, they do it for free) and the other is that no matter how crazy a view might be, the idea the person writing it does not actually believe what they are saying is probably wrong. It's almost encouraging to think that, because it means those opposed to us are just bad people doing it simply because they are opponents, rather than because the truly think those things.
I think my first test of whether this latest stuff has any breakthrough will be if anyone mentions it in the office tomorrow. Not that I think many will have watched it - heck, I have not - but to see if the reporting on it has broken through and what the reaction to that reporting is at least.
I watched it on BBC London through Sky0 -
Do you think the marvellous Ms Le Conte has just outed herself as a PB comments reader?
http://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/11490693655197982781 -
Very interesting tidbit. Thank you. Does his CLP support him?IanB2 said:
I know Wes very well. He is genuinely torn. He is ambitious, and hopes for a long future in the Labour Party, which he joined very young. He knows that leaving normally means the wilderness (cf. CUK). Yet the type of party he wants to support isn’t the one he is currently a member of. He clings to the hope that a second Blair will arise (or maybe sees a future self as such). But I fear he is going to be disappointed.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1149066763520397313
... plus, why are you still a Labour MP?0 -
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A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.HYUFD said:
We get supplies of prescription drugs from the US now as well as elsewhere in the world, as Boris said the savings from EU contributions will go onto the NHSeek said:
Once again - dear leave voting pensioner - nice collection of prescription drugs there. How are you going to pay for it now the US controls the NHS?HYUFD said:
No, as Article 50 has already been passed by Parliament, the EU will not even consider granting a further extension of Article 50 without a request from the UK PM and Parliament so by default we leave the EU on October 31st without that.eek said:
No deal requires Bills to be passed - the fact you think it doesn't shows as much attention to detail as Boris gives...HYUFD said:
No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.eek said:HYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happen as he would not ask for an extension and Parliament would not try and force him to ask for an extension.
There may be some No Deal tidying up bills and subsequent renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement to at least remove the temporary Customs Union for GB but with no extension requested we would leave the EU on 31st October
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the beginning of them...
I can easily explain in 8 steps enough to scare your average Leave Pensioner back to Labour....
It ends with less tax revenue, less money to pay your pension and no legal requirement to do so as we are outside the EU...
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
The Tories will only be toast if they do not campaign to deliver Brexit, provided they campaign to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal they will be fine
I notice that you haven't commented on the second point so you think a pensioner scared for their pension outside the EU is going to vote for a No Deal Brexit and lose their free NHS prescriptions as well...
Not one No Deal Bill needs to be passed to make it happen, only to make the effects of No Deal a bit more orderly
The price of monthly insulin prescription in the us is $450. Can you afford that?
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BoZo is as thin-skinned as his buddy0
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There will be lots of outrage from Labour MPs and that’s it.kinabalu said:
I think it will make a difference. It was a damaging programme in its quiet insidious way.nico67 said:Won’t make a blind bit of difference . Most are watching Love Island or are bored to tears with Labours never ending saga on anti Semitism .
People filter out anything they don’t like about politicians or parties and that’s the times we live in.
I don’t like Corbyn or his cronies as a Labour supporter but sadly we live in an age of varying degrees of horror to choose from politically .
When push comes to shove Labour supporters will still vote for the party even with Corbyn .
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Me too. It was searing to watch. THAT was the big new story. People considering suicide thanks to Labour's lofty indifference to/glib acceptance of, Jew-hatred?Drutt said:Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.
Maybe it won't cut through to the general public. Probably it won't. But I do think that more politically engaged people will be appalled, and will recoil. Therefore it will damage Labour at the grassroots level. "Do I want to campaign for THIS party, and THIS leader??"0 -
What did they have on?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was not on BBC in Wales.kle4 said:
Even the keyboard warrior outriders will know in their heart of hearts that what they have to tweet is a load of nonsenserottenborough said:
I think that is pretty optimistic. If there are a few things the internet age has taught us it is the value of the enthusiastic amateur (so most don't need to be paid to write garbage, they do it for free) and the other is that no matter how crazy a view might be, the idea the person writing it does not actually believe what they are saying is probably wrong. It's almost encouraging to think that, because it means those opposed to us are just bad people doing it simply because they are opponents, rather than because the truly think those things.
I think my first test of whether this latest stuff has any breakthrough will be if anyone mentions it in the office tomorrow. Not that I think many will have watched it - heck, I have not - but to see if the reporting on it has broken through and what the reaction to that reporting is at least.
I watched it on BBC London through Sky0 -
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Can't think why they would hate people who are investigating AS.Drutt said:Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.
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"I'm campaigning for [insert local candidate here]. He/she is great"Byronic said:
Me too. It was searing to watch. THAT was the big new story. People considering suicide thanks to Labour's lofty indifference to/glib acceptance of, Jew-hatred?Drutt said:Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.
Maybe it won't cut through to the general public. Probably it won't. But I do think that more politically engaged people will be appalled, and will recoil. Therefore it will damage Labour at the grassroots level. "Do I want to campaign for THIS party, and THIS leader??"
Job done, if they have concerns on Corbyn. Yes, they are still backing him as PM, but that's the path people will take to stick to their tribal vote. We can already see plenty of staunch anti-Borisites finding their own reasons to keep backing the party under him too.0 -
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.HYUFD said:
We get supplies of prescription drugs from the US now as well as elsewhere in the world, as Boris said the savings from EU contributions will go onto the NHSeek said:
Once again - dear leave voting pensioner - nice collection of prescription drugs there. How are you going to pay for it now the US controls the NHS?HYUFD said:
No, as Article 50 has already been passed by Parliament, the EU will not even consider granting a further extension of Article 50 without a request from the UK PM and Parliament so by default we leave the EU on October 31st without that.eek said:
No deal requires Bills to be passed - the fact you think it doesn't shows as much attention to detail as Boris gives...HYUFD said:
No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.eek said:HYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happen as he would not ask for an extension and Parliament would not try and force him to ask for an extension.
There may be some No Deal tidying up bills and subsequent renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement to at least remove the temporary Customs Union for GB but with no extension requested we would leave the EU on 31st October
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the..
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
The Tories will only be toast if they do not campaign to deliver Brexit, provided they campaign to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal they will be fine
I notice that you haven't commented on the second point so you think a pensioner scared for their pension outside the EU is going to vote for a No Deal Brexit and lose their free NHS prescriptions as well...
Not one No Deal Bill needs to be passed to make it happen, only to make the effects of No Deal a bit more orderly
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
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Yeh, but, but, but, austerity, the NHS, bus services etc etc...Byronic said:
Me too. It was searing to watch. THAT was the big new story. People considering suicide thanks to Labour's lofty indifference to/glib acceptance of, Jew-hatred?Drutt said:Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.
Maybe it won't cut through to the general public. Probably it won't. But I do think that more politically engaged people will be appalled, and will recoil. Therefore it will damage Labour at the grassroots level. "Do I want to campaign for THIS party, and THIS leader??"0 -
That struck me too, they all came across as credible in their personal testimony. They came across as human and genuine in contrast to the party's stilted rebuttals. The problem isn't just Corbyn it's the clique that now runs the show and they are not going to give up power without a monumental struggle.Drutt said:Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.
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Guardian wrote this morning that 4% of US GDP per year was going on NASA at the height.Pulpstar said:
Always forget it was Tricky Dicky in charge when they landed !Pulpstar said:I'm watching the Apollo doc.
In 50 years the US has gone from Kennedy & landing on the moon to Trump & no human spaceflight launch capability.
4%!!!!!!
That figure astounded me. Perhaps it is a typo?0 -
And Labour's descent into the mire because of the bigotry at the heart of their party is horrendous and shameful. But she won't speak out against that.Scott_P said:0 -
A trade deal will be up for negotiation and part of the purpose of it to lower overall costs on both sides, the NHS already gets thousands of drugs from the USeek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.HYUFD said:
We get supplies of prescription drugs from the US now as well as elsewhere in the world, as Boris said the savings from EU contributions will go onto the NHSeek said:
Once again - dear leave voting pensioner - nice collection of prescription drugs there. How are you going to pay for it now the US controls the NHS?HYUFD said:
No, as Article 50 has already been passed by Parliament, the EU will not even consider granting a further extension of Article 50 without a request from the UK PM and Parliament so by default we leave the EU on October 31st without that.eek said:
No deal requires Bills to be passed - the fact you think it doesn't shows as much attention to detail as Boris gives...HYUFD said:
No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.eek said:HYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happen as he would not ask for an extension and Parliament would not try and force him to ask for an extension.
There may be some No Deal tidying up bills and subsequent renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement to at least remove the temporary Customs Union for GB but with no extension requested we would leave the EU on 31st October
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the beginning of them...
I can easily explain in 8 steps enough to scare your average Leave Pensioner back to Labour....
It ends with less tax revenue, less money to pay your pension and no legal requirement to do so as we are outside the EU...
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
The Tories will only be toast if they do not campaign to deliver Brexit, provided they campaign to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal they will be fine
I notice that you haven't commented on the second point so you think a pensioner scared for their pension outside the EU is going to vote for a No Deal Brexit and lose their free NHS prescriptions as well...
Not one No Deal Bill needs to be passed to make it happen, only to make the effects of No Deal a bit more orderly
The price of monthly insulin prescription in the us is $450. Can you afford that?0 -
A programme about the left behind but I did not watch it due to the Panorama programmeZephyr said:
What did they have on?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was not on BBC in Wales.kle4 said:
Even the keyboard warrior outriders will know in their heart of hearts that what they have to tweet is a load of nonsenserottenborough said:
I think that is pretty optimistic. If there are a few things the internet age has taught us it is the value of the enthusiastic amateur (so most don't need to be paid to write garbage, they do it for free) and the other is that no matter how crazy a view might be, the idea the person writing it does not actually believe what they are saying is probably wrong. It's almost encouraging to think that, because it means those opposed to us are just bad people doing it simply because they are opponents, rather than because the truly think those things.
I think my first test of whether this latest stuff has any breakthrough will be if anyone mentions it in the office tomorrow. Not that I think many will have watched it - heck, I have not - but to see if the reporting on it has broken through and what the reaction to that reporting is at least.
I watched it on BBC London through Sky0 -
All of this shite from Tory and Labour was baked in by the 2017 GE. I voted LD for first time ever and haven’t looked back.
As Stodge reminds us, we can rid ourselves of these turbulent beasts if we want to.1 -
Yes, Starmer is the UK Bill Shorten.Zephyr said:
Does he beat Starmer, after the new Labour ldr has had months and a whole campaign of publicity?HYUFD said:
Boris beats Corbyn with a comfortable majorityGallowgate said:
But Corbyn would win again and then what?rottenborough said:
Stand against Corbyn and finally bring this civil war to its head?Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1149063200106848256?s=21
Obligatory “so what are you going to do about it??”
Not that Corbyn is going anywhere anyway0 -
I don't think so. IIRC at it's peak the Apollo programme had the equivalent of 400,000 full time jobs.rottenborough said:
Guardian wrote this morning that 4% of US GDP per year was going on NASA at the height.Pulpstar said:
Always forget it was Tricky Dicky in charge when they landed !Pulpstar said:I'm watching the Apollo doc.
In 50 years the US has gone from Kennedy & landing on the moon to Trump & no human spaceflight launch capability.
4%!!!!!!
That figure astounded me. Perhaps it is a typo?0 -
There’s absolutely no way that the BBC doctored an email. What are these guys smoking?0
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Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide0 -
For those who watched it, I think it might cut through. That is precisely the kind of treatment of subordinates by management that any labour movement ought to exist to fight.Byronic said:
Me too. It was searing to watch. THAT was the big new story. People considering suicide thanks to Labour's lofty indifference to/glib acceptance of, Jew-hatred?Drutt said:Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.
Maybe it won't cut through to the general public. Probably it won't. But I do think that more politically engaged people will be appalled, and will recoil. Therefore it will damage Labour at the grassroots level. "Do I want to campaign for THIS party, and THIS leader??"
Contemptible.
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If Boris no deals I will not be a memberkle4 said:
"I'm campaigning for [insert local candidate here]. He/she is great"Byronic said:
Me too. It was searing to watch. THAT was the big new story. People considering suicide thanks to Labour's lofty indifference to/glib acceptance of, Jew-hatred?Drutt said:Back on topic, what struck me about the Panorama was not how much echelons of the Labour party are anti-Semitic - that's hardly news - but how much they hate people investigating AS. The testimony of party workers driven out, driven to madness and driven almost to suicide is the bit that's probably not priced into the polling.
Maybe it won't cut through to the general public. Probably it won't. But I do think that more politically engaged people will be appalled, and will recoil. Therefore it will damage Labour at the grassroots level. "Do I want to campaign for THIS party, and THIS leader??"
Job done, if they have concerns on Corbyn. Yes, they are still backing him as PM, but that's the path people will take to stick to their tribal vote. We can already see plenty of staunch anti-Borisites finding their own reasons to keep backing the party under him too.1 -
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That wasn’t what I wrote - try again...HYUFD said:
A trade deal will be up for negotiation and part of the purpose of it to lower overall costs on both sides, the NHS already gets thousands of drugs from the USeek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of monthly insulin prescription in the us is $450. Can you afford that?0 -
I look forward to Tom Watson’s response as he follows Liamrottenborough said:0 -
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide0 -
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rottenborough said:
Guardian wrote this morning that 4% of US GDP per year was going on NASA at the height.
4%!!!!!!
That figure astounded me. Perhaps it is a typo?
Sounds about right - NASA in the 60s had a mammoth budget, close to $50 billion per year in today's money (and in a drastically smaller economy).
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“Not that Corbyn is going anywhere anyway”.HYUFD said:
Yes, Starmer is the UK Bill Shorten.Zephyr said:
Does he beat Starmer, after the new Labour ldr has had months and a whole campaign of publicity?HYUFD said:
Boris beats Corbyn with a comfortable majorityGallowgate said:
But Corbyn would win again and then what?rottenborough said:
Stand against Corbyn and finally bring this civil war to its head?Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1149063200106848256?s=21
Obligatory “so what are you going to do about it??”
Not that Corbyn is going anywhere anyway
This time last week i would have agreed. The last few days I’m not so sure.
Even as Boris fanatic you would admit its not been a good few days for Boris too? I think his win is nearer 60/40 than 70/30.0 -
If US insulin were available at $450 a pop, why would the NHS buy it unless it were cheaper or better than their existing supply?eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.HYUFD said:
We get supplies of prescription drugs from the US now as well as elsewhere in the world, as Boris said the savings from EU contributions will go onto the NHSeek said:
Once again - dear leave voting pensioner - nice collection of prescription drugs there. How are you going to pay for it now the US controls the NHS?HYUFD said:
No, as Article 50 has already been passed by Parliament, the EU will not even consider granting a further extension of Article 50 without a request from the UK PM and Parliament so by default we leave the EU on October 31st without that.eek said:
No deal requires Bills to be passed - the fact you think it doesn't shows as much attention to detail as Boris gives...HYUFD said:
No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.eek said:
SnipHYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happe
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the beginning of them...
I can easily explain in 8 steps enough to scare your average Leave Pensioner back to Labour....
It ends with less tax revenue, less money to pay your pension and no legal requirement to do so as we are outside the EU...
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
The Tories will only be toast if they do not campaign to deliver Brexit, provided they campaign to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal they will be fine
I notice that you haven't commented on the second point so you think a pensioner scared for their pension outside the EU is going to vote for a No Deal Brexit and lose their free NHS prescriptions as well...
Not one No Deal Bill needs to be passed to make it happen, only to make the effects of No Deal a bit more orderly
The price of monthly insulin prescription in the us is $450. Can you afford that?0 -
To be blunt if this was a problem with Islamophobia the Labour Party would have sorted this out by now and Corbyn would have probably been toast .
The facts are there are at least 3 million Muslims in the UK , a crucial voting block for the party , across many marginals . There are just around 350 thousand Jews in the UK, , very localized which have a big effect in only a few constituencies .
It’s pretty clear that if Corbyn was to go the focal point of the problem would go with him but I can’t see him being challenged . I can just sit and imagine what Labour might do with someone like Keir Starmer .
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Welcome to British politics 2019, where dictatorial ideological purity & racism is the stock in trade of one party leader and the prospective leader of another party hasn't got a single bone of public service motivation in himself. Self service yes, public service no.
One comment on the Darroch situation. Over in the US political establishment, its not going over as big a story because they have many other distractions, one of which is one Jeffrey Epstein.
Unpleasant human being. Knows a lot of people, holds a lot of secrets, mixed up with a lot of overseas types including agencies that you shouldnt be sharing the table with. There will be politicians over there crapping a brick for fear of contamination.0 -
I wouldn't bet on it. I was a member till Ed resigned and my opinion of Corbyn, Milne et al has got steadily worse. Nothing would induce me to vote Labour let alone rejoin while they are in control. It's clear from PB alone that many former supporters feel the same way.nico67 said:
There will be lots of outrage from Labour MPs and that’s it.kinabalu said:
I think it will make a difference. It was a damaging programme in its quiet insidious way.nico67 said:Won’t make a blind bit of difference . Most are watching Love Island or are bored to tears with Labours never ending saga on anti Semitism .
People filter out anything they don’t like about politicians or parties and that’s the times we live in.
I don’t like Corbyn or his cronies as a Labour supporter but sadly we live in an age of varying degrees of horror to choose from politically .
When push comes to shove Labour supporters will still vote for the party even with Corbyn .0 -
Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.0 -
Let's see if the EHRC agree Labour is not institutionally AS.Scott_P said:0 -
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Tice is an arse.0
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It’s not - but can I saw you historic video of Nigel and his desire to replace the NHS with an insurance based scheme managed by US health care insurance firms..Drutt said:
If US insulin were available at $450 a pop, why would the NHS buy it unless it were cheaper or better than their existing supply?eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.HYUFD said:
We get supplies of prescription drugs from the US now as well as elsewhere in the world, as Boris said the savings from EU contributions will go onto the NHSeek said:
Once again - dear leave voting pensioner - nice collection of prescription drugs there. How are you going to pay for it now the US controls the NHS?HYUFD said:
No, as Article 50 has already been passed by Parliament, the EU will not even consider granting a further extension of Article 50 without a request from the UK PM and Parliament so by default we leave the EU on October 31st without that.eek said:
No deal requires Bills to be passed - the fact you think it doesn't shows as much attention to detail as Boris gives...HYUFD said:
No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.eek said:
SnipHYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happe
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the beginning of them...
I can easily explain in 8 steps enough to scare your average Leave Pensioner back to Labour....
It ends with less tax revenue, less money to pay your pension and no legal requirement to do so as we are outside the EU...
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
The Tories will only be toast if they do not campaign to deliver Brexit, provided they campaign to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal they will be fine
I notice that you haven't commented on the second point so you think a pensioner scared for their pension outside the EU is going to vote for a No Deal Brexit and lose their free NHS prescriptions as well...
Not one No Deal Bill needs to be passed to make it happen, only to make the effects of No Deal a bit more orderly
The price of monthly insulin prescription in the us is $450. Can you afford that?
In a 5 week campaign there is a lot of time to slowly show things Farage and Boris have said in the past and show the consequences of it.0 -
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92% of Tory members. Which is not a large number of voters.ralphmalph said:Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.
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Big_G_NorthWales said:
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
My viewpoint is more ensuring that I can honestly say don’t say I didn’t warn you as they try to make their money last the week..
I’ve previously had the same with the public sector IR35 reforms. A friend told me he’s just got a £100k bill from HMRC. While I’m sympathetic it’s hard not to say I told you what to do and told you this would happen if you didn’t move elsewhere.0 -
rottenborough said:
I suppose they doctored the testimony of all those employees and members as well!0 -
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Richard Tice making an unwashed dick of himself on Newsnight, saying that the problem with the Darroch affair was the content of the diptels.0
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0
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Yes that is correct.glw said:
I don't think so. IIRC at it's peak the Apollo programme had the equivalent of 400,000 full time jobs.rottenborough said:
Guardian wrote this morning that 4% of US GDP per year was going on NASA at the height.Pulpstar said:
Always forget it was Tricky Dicky in charge when they landed !Pulpstar said:I'm watching the Apollo doc.
In 50 years the US has gone from Kennedy & landing on the moon to Trump & no human spaceflight launch capability.
4%!!!!!!
That figure astounded me. Perhaps it is a typo?
Mind you the British Military in the 1960s were still 10% of public/government spending IIRC, that is not GDP! It was a different era with different priorities. People were prepared to forgo things personally so that a country as a whole could prioritise prestige projects or a military that could compete on all platforms with opponents. I doubt people are willing to forgo much beyond a certain point now and people were vociferous in their opposition to Nasa spending in the US and military spending all over the Western world even in the 1960s.0 -
Not sure what you mean but I do not need insulin and to be honest a trade deal with the US is years away, if evereek said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
My viewpoint is more ensuring that I can honestly say don’t say I didn’t warn you as they try to make your their last the week..
I’ve previously had the same with the public sector IR35 reforms. A friend told me he’s just got a £100k bill from HMRC. While I’m sympathetic it’s hard not to say I told you what to do and told you this would happen if you didn’t move elsewhere.0 -
Correct i was fishing for a bite.Nigelb said:
92% of Tory members. Which is not a large number of voters.ralphmalph said:Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.0 -
You hope but after a No Deal Brexit would we be able to say No....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not sure what you mean but I do not need insulin and to be honest a trade deal with the US is years away, if evereek said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
My viewpoint is more ensuring that I can honestly say don’t say I didn’t warn you as they try to make your their last the week..
I’ve previously had the same with the public sector IR35 reforms. A friend told me he’s just got a £100k bill from HMRC. While I’m sympathetic it’s hard not to say I told you what to do and told you this would happen if you didn’t move elsewhere.0 -
Tice claiming that “these were not classified documents”.
How does he know one way or the other ?0 -
So under 100% of Conservative members are committed to the Conservativeralphmalph said:Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.
Party? They’re more destitute than I thought.0 -
https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1149078131317379073Y0kel said:Welcome to British politics 2019, where dictatorial ideological purity & racism is the stock in trade of one party leader and the prospective leader of another party hasn't got a single bone of public service motivation in himself. Self service yes, public service no.
One comment on the Darroch situation. Over in the US political establishment, its not going over as big a story because they have many other distractions, one of which is one Jeffrey Epstein.
Unpleasant human being. Knows a lot of people, holds a lot of secrets, mixed up with a lot of overseas types including agencies that you shouldnt be sharing the table with. There will be politicians over there crapping a brick for fear of contamination.0 -
I do not support a no deal brexit and do not see the HOC allowing iteek said:
You hope but after a No Deal Brexit would we be able to say No....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not sure what you mean but I do not need insulin and to be honest a trade deal with the US is years away, if evereek said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
My viewpoint is more ensuring that I can honestly say don’t say I didn’t warn you as they try to make your their last the week..
I’ve previously had the same with the public sector IR35 reforms. A friend told me he’s just got a £100k bill from HMRC. While I’m sympathetic it’s hard not to say I told you what to do and told you this would happen if you didn’t move elsewhere.0 -
As do I. Some beyond Corbyn's circle think there are problems that need resolving, they might want to take a somewhat nuanced view about how they think not enough is being done, this is all very concerning blah blah blah, but with accusations of actual doctored informed coming from the party, Watson and co need to address whether that is also their position, as their concern or lack thereof may be worth more, or less, depending on if they too think the programe was full of such inaccuracies.eek said:
I look forward to Tom Watson’s response as he follows Liamrottenborough said:0 -
Yes - that Boris is called out for being wrong and will still win easily, not inspite of but even because of being called wrong.rottenborough said:0 -
I am sure he will conclude it is something to do with Brexit....rottenborough said:0 -
And when Boris goes for an election without asking for an extension?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not support a no deal brexit and do not see the HOC allowing iteek said:
You hope but after a No Deal Brexit would we be able to say No....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not sure what you mean but I do not need insulin and to be honest a trade deal with the US is years away, if evereek said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
My viewpoint is more ensuring that I can honestly say don’t say I didn’t warn you as they try to make your their last the week..
I’ve previously had the same with the public sector IR35 reforms. A friend told me he’s just got a £100k bill from HMRC. While I’m sympathetic it’s hard not to say I told you what to do and told you this would happen if you didn’t move elsewhere.0 -
60/40 is still a comprehensive win nothing too be ashamed of. How much member polling has there been and how reliable are such polls? There has to be a solid 30-40% boris was never going to get against a moderate remain opponent.Zephyr said:
“Not that Corbyn is going anywhere anyway”.HYUFD said:
Yes, Starmer is the UK Bill Shorten.Zephyr said:
Does he beat Starmer, after the new Labour ldr has had months and a whole campaign of publicity?HYUFD said:
Boris beats Corbyn with a comfortable majorityGallowgate said:
But Corbyn would win again and then what?rottenborough said:
Stand against Corbyn and finally bring this civil war to its head?Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1149063200106848256?s=21
Obligatory “so what are you going to do about it??”
Not that Corbyn is going anywhere anyway
This time last week i would have agreed. The last few days I’m not so sure.
Even as Boris fanatic you would admit its not been a good few days for Boris too? I think his win is nearer 60/40 than 70/30.0 -
Labour have fallen into the trap of 'protesting too much' creating an even bigger problem that could spiral out of controlrottenborough said:0 -
Not easy under FPTPeek said:
And when Boris goes for an election without asking for an extension?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not support a no deal brexit and do not see the HOC allowing iteek said:
You hope but after a No Deal Brexit would we be able to say No....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not sure what you mean but I do not need insulin and to be honest a trade deal with the US is years away, if evereek said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
My viewpoint is more ensuring that I can honestly say don’t say I didn’t warn you as they try to make your their last the week..
I’ve previously had the same with the public sector IR35 reforms. A friend told me he’s just got a £100k bill from HMRC. While I’m sympathetic it’s hard not to say I told you what to do and told you this would happen if you didn’t move elsewhere.0 -
The second tweet says Panorama “selectively quoted” it... that’s not the same as “edited”rottenborough said:
But a lie will be half way round the world etc0 -
It’s insane but it only takes 2 MPs to resign or the DUP to walk away and his majority is gone...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not easy under FPTPeek said:
And when Boris goes for an election without asking for an extension?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not support a no deal brexit and do not see the HOC allowing iteek said:
You hope but after a No Deal Brexit would we be able to say No....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not sure what you mean but I do not need insulin and to be honest a trade deal with the US is years away, if evereek said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
No need. I am aware of the financial risks but projecting fear about pensions is on a par with previous attempts to scare people into remainingeek said:
Do you want me to repeat the reduced tax revenue so no money to pay / increase pensions bit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I cannot see any trade deal with the US in years and at my age I am not giving it a moments thought.eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.
The price of insulin in the us is $450 a month. Can you afford that?
Today has seen Boris in a self made car crash, but Corbyn and his associates sicken me to the core.
How on earth has labour descended into the depths of revulsion shown tonight with staffers even on the verge of suicide
My viewpoint is more ensuring that I can honestly say don’t say I didn’t warn you as they try to make your their last the week..
I’ve previously had the same with the public sector IR35 reforms. A friend told me he’s just got a £100k bill from HMRC. While I’m sympathetic it’s hard not to say I told you what to do and told you this would happen if you didn’t move elsewhere.
And there are more than 2 Tory MPs who may walk...0 -
I’m guessing the same way we always have: using PPRS and NICE to control drug pricingeek said:
Once again - dear leave voting pensioner - nice collection of prescription drugs there. How are you going to pay for it now the US controls the NHS?HYUFD said:
No, as Article 50 has already been passed by Parliament, the EU will not even consider granting a further extension of Article 50 without a request from the UK PM and Parliament so by default we leave the EU on October 31st without that.eek said:
No deal requires Bills to be passed - the fact you think it doesn't shows as much attention to detail as Boris gives...HYUFD said:
No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.eek said:HYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happen as he would not ask for an extension and Parliament would not try and force him to ask for an extension.
There may be some No Deal tidying up bills and subsequent renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement to at least remove the temporary Customs Union for GB but with no extension requested we would leave the EU on 31st October
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the beginning of them...
I can easily explain in 8 steps enough to scare your average Leave Pensioner back to Labour....
It ends with less tax revenue, less money to pay your pension and no legal requirement to do so as we are outside the EU...
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
The Tories will only be toast if they do not campaign to deliver Brexit, provided they campaign to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal they will be fine
I notice that you haven't commented on the second point so you think a pensioner scared for their pension outside the EU is going to vote for a No Deal Brexit and lose their free NHS prescriptions as well...
Not one No Deal Bill needs to be passed to make it happen, only to make the effects of No Deal a bit more orderly0 -
ralphmalph said:
Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.
'Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party vote would collapse and switch back to the Tories if Boris Johnson succeeded in taking the UK out of the EU by October 31, a poll of Tory party members shows.
The vast majority of Conservative switchers to the Brexit Party would come back to the Tories in a subsequent general election, leaving Mr Farage with a tiny rump, according to the survey by pollsters Orb International for the Telegraph.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/10/tory-party-members-would-ditch-nigel-farage-boris-johnson-can/
Of course if Boris did not follow his leave in October Deal or No Deal policy and instead followed the Hunt policy and left open further extension past October 31st they would not come back0 -
Isabel Oakeshott was claiming that diagram of her contacts was absurd. But her coterie seems very well-informed.Nigelb said:Tice claiming that “these were not classified documents”.
How does he know one way or the other ?0 -
I'm more convinced than ever that Boris will win a majority in a forthcoming election.
Ian Dale had "frosty" Simon Heffer on his show this evening and he absolutely hates and lothes Boris with a passion not seen since Tony Blair was in government.
But the fact of the matter is Hefferlump hates winners and loves losers.
He hated Blair and didn't have much time for Cameron (both election winners)
But he supported Brown and Theresa May (both losers)
The general rule of thumb therefore is that if Heffer hates you your're a winner. If Heffer loves you you're a loser.
Boris 50 seat majority on 17th October 2019 nailed on!
0 -
Which must mean that, clearly, Britain must take a life-changing and cataclysmic decision that only 30% of its broader population supports, in order to save one political party, which mysteriously thinks, as Theresa May did of it, that it *is* Britain.HYUFD said:ralphmalph said:Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.
'Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party vote would collapse and switch back to the Tories if Boris Johnson succeeded in taking the UK out of the EU by October 31, a poll of Tory party members shows.
The vast majority of Conservative switchers to the Brexit Party would come back to the Tories in a subsequent general election, leaving Mr Farage with a tiny rump, according to the survey by pollsters Orb International for the Telegraph.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/10/tory-party-members-would-ditch-nigel-farage-boris-johnson-can/
Of course if Boris did not follow his leave in October Deal or No Deal policy and instead followed the Hunt policy and left open further extension past October 31st they would not come back0 -
Tory members who have applied for a London hustings place (including me) will be informed at 10am on Friday CCHQ have emailed to say if they are lucky enough to have got a seat for the Boris and Hunt London hustings next week.
0 -
A pointless poll.HYUFD said:ralphmalph said:Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.
'Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party vote would collapse and switch back to the Tories if Boris Johnson succeeded in taking the UK out of the EU by October 31, a poll of Tory party members shows.
The vast majority of Conservative switchers to the Brexit Party would come back to the Tories in a subsequent general election, leaving Mr Farage with a tiny rump, according to the survey by pollsters Orb International for the Telegraph.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/10/tory-party-members-would-ditch-nigel-farage-boris-johnson-can/
Of course if Boris did not follow his leave in October Deal or No Deal policy and instead followed the Hunt policy and left open further extension past October 31st they would not come back
It’s the general Tory voters in the country that are important . You don’t win elections by appealing to just your membership .0 -
That's an amazing poll considering it is of Tory party MEMBERS !HYUFD said:ralphmalph said:Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.
'Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party vote would collapse and switch back to the Tories if Boris Johnson succeeded in taking the UK out of the EU by October 31, a poll of Tory party members shows.
The vast majority of Conservative switchers to the Brexit Party would come back to the Tories in a subsequent general election, leaving Mr Farage with a tiny rump, according to the survey by pollsters Orb International for the Telegraph.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/10/tory-party-members-would-ditch-nigel-farage-boris-johnson-can/
Of course if Boris did not follow his leave in October Deal or No Deal policy and instead followed the Hunt policy and left open further extension past October 31st they would not come back
Mind you it went on with LD -> Lab members in 2017 and Lab -> LD members in the most recent Euro elections too.0 -
He ought have been asked to justify his assertion.AlastairMeeks said:
Isabel Oakeshott was claiming that diagram of her contacts was absurd. But her coterie seems very well-informed.Nigelb said:Tice claiming that “these were not classified documents”.
How does he know one way or the other ?
0 -
US firms currently have “access to the NHS”eek said:
A trade deal with the US will require giving US firms access to the NHS.HYUFD said:
We get supplies of prescription drugs from the US now as well as elsewhere in the world, as Boris said the savings from EU contributions will go onto the NHSeek said:
Once again - dear leave voting pensioner - nice collection of prescription drugs there. How are you going to pay for it now the US controls the NHS?HYUFD said:
No, as Article 50 has already been passed by Parliament, the EU will not even consider granting a further extension of Article 50 without a request from the UK PM and Parliament so by default we leave the EU on October 31st without that.eek said:
No deal requires Bills to be passed - the fact you think it doesn't shows as much attention to detail as Boris gives...HYUFD said:
No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.eek said:HYUFD said:
If Boris win a parliamentary majority for Brexit, Deal or No Deal before October 31st that is what would happen as he would not ask for an extension and Parliament would not try and force him to ask for an extension.
There may be some No Deal tidying up bills and subsequent renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement to at least remove the temporary Customs Union for GB but with no extension requested we would leave the EU on 31st October
Deal requires time to get the bills through Parliament.
No Deal requires time to get bills through Parliament\
If Boris campaigns on a No Deal Brexit the Tory party is totally and utterly toast.
You may not see it yet but I can imagine the posters already - mine aren't even the beginning of them...
I can easily explain in 8 steps enough to scare your average Leave Pensioner back to Labour....
It ends with less tax revenue, less money to pay your pension and no legal requirement to do so as we are outside the EU...
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
The Tories will only be toast if they do not campaign to deliver Brexit, provided they campaign to deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal they will be fine
I notice that you haven't commented on the second point so you think a pensioner scared for their pension outside the EU is going to vote for a No Deal Brexit and lose their free NHS prescriptions as well...
Not one No Deal Bill needs to be passed to make it happen, only to make the effects of No Deal a bit more orderly
The price of monthly insulin prescription in the us is $450. Can you afford that?
Globally most insulin is supplied by Novo Nordisk, Sanofi or Eli Lilly
0 -
So Democrats are great at spending money on grand spectacles but it takes a Republican to being the boys home?Pulpstar said:
Always forget it was Tricky Dicky in charge when they landed !Pulpstar said:I'm watching the Apollo doc.
In 50 years the US has gone from Kennedy & landing on the moon to Trump & no human spaceflight launch capability.
😉0 -
"An inverted pyramid of piffle"?Scott_P said:0 -
General Tory voters in the country also back Brexit, Deal or No Dealnico67 said:
A pointless poll.HYUFD said:ralphmalph said:Calling Hyufd - Telegraph have a new poll on your specialist subject, The Boris Bounce.
If Boris leaves no deal or deal on 31st Oct 92% would vote Tory in future compares to 56% that would if Boris did not leave.
'Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party vote would collapse and switch back to the Tories if Boris Johnson succeeded in taking the UK out of the EU by October 31, a poll of Tory party members shows.
The vast majority of Conservative switchers to the Brexit Party would come back to the Tories in a subsequent general election, leaving Mr Farage with a tiny rump, according to the survey by pollsters Orb International for the Telegraph.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/10/tory-party-members-would-ditch-nigel-farage-boris-johnson-can/
Of course if Boris did not follow his leave in October Deal or No Deal policy and instead followed the Hunt policy and left open further extension past October 31st they would not come back
It’s the general Tory voters in the country that are important . You don’t win elections by appealing to just your membership .0 -
People who don't like Boris are speaking against him?rottenborough said:
Considering Hammond and the Treasuries abject record being spoken negatively by him is about as concerning as not being liked by Simon Heffer (See Gin1138 @11:33pm)0 -
Wrong, in even the safest of Parliamentary seats you can change who has the seat. All you have to do is convince more electors to vote for another candidate than the incumbent Party. See for instance Scotland 2015 when 50/56 seats (including many very "safe" seats) changed hands.not_on_fire said:
If you live in a safe parliamentary seat, the answer to the second question is “fuck all.” Thanks to PR, you have some input on the first.Philip_Thompson said:
It's a ratchett that already exists.Mexicanpete said:
Ah, that old chestnut, the Federal United States of Europe!Philip_Thompson said:
I prefer to have democracy as the safeguard.Mexicanpete said:
I think so. I just preferred it when there were safeguards to reign in the excesses of for example a Corbyn government's Soviet-style programme. I guess you are ok with that, and heaven forbid it became a popular Soviet- style populist government. Blimey, if it moves they could nationalise it.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed he could and I would see to undo that at the next election. Democracy, do you understand the concept?Mexicanpete said:
Son-of- Corbyn could do an awful lot of damage to your Nirvana in 5 years, including of course re-joining the EU without a referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually I'm happy to have the HoC determine future laws whether it is manned by the right or wrong sort of MPs. If it is the wrong sort of MPs we can remove them at the ballot box, something we can't do with the unelected von der Leyen.Mexicanpete said:So you will be quite happy to a have the HoC determine future laws so long as it is manned by the right sort of MPs.who can continue their business unfettered by the constraints of the EU. How will you feel when son-of-Corbyn is elected in a landslide sometime in the future? it could happen, unless your chaps are planning safeguards to ensure that never happens.
Or are you suggesting voters take control and all primary legislation must be agreed by plebicite. If so let's have a vote on No Deal!
If son-of-Corbyn is elected I will be very disappointed and campaign to seek to see his tenure terminated and his decisions reversed at the next election. Ie democracy.
What happens if a future EU-led government led to Soviet-style populist government and we can't kick it out at the ballot box?
If we want to undo an EU-law how can we do so via the ballot box?
If we want to undo a UK-law how can we do so via the ballot box?0 -
Well, it depends what you mean by 'more orderly'. A better characterisation would be 'if we're to avoid the most humoungous self-inflicted chaos ever known in peacetime in a developed economy, we will need plenty of time for legislation'.HYUFD said:No Deal requires no bills, just refusal to extend.
Only the process make No Deal more orderly requires bills.
..
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/legislation/what-legislation-is-required-for-a-no-deal-brexit/
0 -
Once we've left we don't change their laws, that is their laws. Just as we don't change Japanese, or American laws. We change our own.eek said:
If we leave the EU but wish to trade with them how do we change an EU law which thanks to us being in the EU parliament was passed by 52:48%?Philip_Thompson said:
It's a ratchett that already exists.Mexicanpete said:
Ah, that old chestnut, the Federal United States of Europe!Philip_Thompson said:
I prefer to have democracy as the safeguard.Mexicanpete said:
I think so. I just preferred it when there were safeguards to reign in the excesses of for example a Corbyn government's Soviet-style programme. I guess you are ok with that, and heaven forbid it became a popular Soviet- style populist government. Blimey, if it moves they could nationalise it.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed he could and I would see to undo that at the next election. Democracy, do you understand the concept?Mexicanpete said:
Son-of- Corbyn could do an awful lot of damage to your Nirvana in 5 years, including of course re-joining the EU without a referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually I'm happy to have the HoC determine future laws whether it is manned by the right or wrong sort of MPs. If it is the wrong sort of MPs we can remove them at the ballot box, something we can't do with the unelected von der Leyen.Mexicanpete said:So you will be quite happy to a have the HoC determine future laws so long as it is manned by the right sort of MPs.who can continue their business unfettered by the constraints of the EU. How will you feel when son-of-Corbyn is elected in a landslide sometime in the future? it could happen, unless your chaps are planning safeguards to ensure that never happens.
Or are you suggesting voters take control and all primary legislation must be agreed by plebicite. If so let's have a vote on No Deal!
If son-of-Corbyn is elected I will be very disappointed and campaign to seek to see his tenure terminated and his decisions reversed at the next election. Ie democracy.
What happens if a future EU-led government led to Soviet-style populist government and we can't kick it out at the ballot box?
If we want to undo an EU-law how can we do so via the ballot box?
If we want to undo a UK-law how can we do so via the ballot box?0
This discussion has been closed.