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HYUFD said:
As opposed to diehard Remainers who are more loyal to Brussels than they are to the UK in their efforts to overturn the Leave vote 52% of voters voted forSouthamObserver said:
Fluent Telegraph, delivered in a Mail accent, lapsing occasionally into Express. The Conservative party is now more loyal to Donald Trump than it is to the UK, which it would happily see break apart. What an extraordinary debasement of a once great party we are watching.HYUFD said:
Nope, most Tory members think Trump would be a good UK PM as a poll yesterday showed.Scott_P said:Has BoZo blown it?
Hunt may have blown it for the final time though by following the left liberal Remainer elite and Darroch's dismissal of TrumpHYUFD said:
As opposed to diehard Remainers who are more loyal to Brussels than they are to the UK in their efforts to overturn the Leave vote 52% of voters voted forSouthamObserver said:
Fluent Telegraph, delivered in a Mail accent, lapsing occasionally into Express. The Conservative party is now more loyal to Donald Trump than it is to the UK, which it would happily see break apart. What an extraordinary debasement of a once great party we are watching.HYUFD said:
Nope, most Tory members think Trump would be a good UK PM as a poll yesterday showed.Scott_P said:Has BoZo blown it?
Hunt may have blown it for the final time though by following the left liberal Remainer elite and Darroch's dismissal of Trump
Marvellous - “more loyal to Brussels”. Intermediate Telegraph, first year of the GCSE course.HYUFD said:
As opposed to diehard Remainers who are more loyal to Brussels than they are to the UK in their efforts to overturn the Leave vote 52% of voters voted forSouthamObserver said:
Fluent Telegraph, delivered in a Mail accent, lapsing occasionally into Express. The Conservative party is now more loyal to Donald Trump than it is to the UK, which it would happily see break apart. What an extraordinary debasement of a once great party we are watching.HYUFD said:
Nope, most Tory members think Trump would be a good UK PM as a poll yesterday showed.Scott_P said:Has BoZo blown it?
Hunt may have blown it for the final time though by following the left liberal Remainer elite and Darroch's dismissal of Trump
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No, I reckon Sadiq Khan would do a good job...Zephyr said:
So which top business leader with diplomatic leanings is best to replace him? Or politicians with good business brain? Has to be someone who believes in Brexit and US FTA.
I can’t think of anyone better placed than Liam Fox. It’s clear to him his only route on the greasy pole is downward.
Hey! What a good betting tip I have just given you?
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Now we know so much more about Labour's Brexit position shouldn't the voters of peterborough have another go?
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why has there not been an EU-USA FTA?nichomar said:
Why do we want a trade deal with the US. The only reason they want one is to improve their trade balance with the U.K. why are we desperate to prostrate ourselves in front of someone who wants to fuck us over to replace our 700 agreements that we currently have. Maybe someone should look at who gains out of a deal with the US but it won’t be the NHS or our farmers.Zephyr said:
“we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to”. I’m not sure. In November we are out the EU without a deal with them, PM Boris will get massive support from his party and media supporters for a businessman in the role to work on that important trade deal. This weeks argy bargy will be history, By that point the national interest is the US/UK trade deal.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.0 -
Their position is to support both leave and remain. I’m delighted that satisfies you and the Kinster. It doesn’t seem to satisfy many others and at your level in the polls (whichever poll) you need all the help you can get.TheJezziah said:
Labours Brexit position isn't designed for your benefit. It offers those who want a referendum what they want and a logical way to do it. If you are in a Labour Tory marginal and you want another referendum above anything else the choice is obvious.TOPPING said:
Labour have said they will support leave and remain.kinabalu said:
It is a worry, I won't lie. I also fear the cheap populist appeal of Johnson. And I sense that Jez has become more liability than asset electorally.AlastairMeeks said:That is Labour's problem. There is a complete absence of trust in them among many of their erstwhile voters on the defining subject of the age.
Nevertheless I think that Labour's Brexit position is (on paper) sound.
If we get that pre-Brexit election (which I doubt) it is going to be quite a ride.
Such a frankly bonkers position has turned you into a “no you fuck off you moron” poster.
People who don't trust Labour regardless of what they say effectively don't matter as we can't appeal to them anyway.0 -
This little incident is really showing the true colours of the Brexit party mob and their enablers: pro-Trump, pro-Bannon worldview, and by extension pro-Putin and proto-fascists.
Something for those who "voted Brexit party coz I just want to see it delivered" to think about.0 -
Peak Quillette.AndyJS said:Compulsory reading IMO:
"In the following article, we will explore this quasi-religion, Wokeness, as a status system that functions predominantly to distinguish white elites from the white masses (whom we will call hoi polloi). It does this by offering a rich signalling vocabulary for traits and possessions such as education, intelligence, openness, leisure, wealth, and cosmopolitanism, all of which educated elites value (for a similar analysis, see Rehain Salam’s August essay in the Atlantic, discussed by David French in the National Review article linked above). From this perspective, the preachers of the Great Awokening—those who most ardently and eloquently articulate the principles of Wokeness—obtain status because they (a) signal the possession of desired traits and (b) promulgate a powerful narrative that legitimizes the status disparity between white elites and hoi polloi. The elites, according to these preachers, are morally righteous and therefore deserve status, whereas hoi polloi are morally backward and deserve obloquy and derision."
https://quillette.com/2018/09/21/the-preachers-of-the-great-awokening/0 -
Top of most of them before the shift to a referendum, people who don't care about a referendum or don't want one obviously won't be moved but there does seem to be a section of people who really do want one.TOPPING said:
Their position is to support both leave and remain. I’m delighted that satisfies you and the Kinster. It doesn’t seem to satisfy many others and at your level in the polls (whichever poll) you need all the help you can get.TheJezziah said:
Labours Brexit position isn't designed for your benefit. It offers those who want a referendum what they want and a logical way to do it. If you are in a Labour Tory marginal and you want another referendum above anything else the choice is obvious.TOPPING said:
Labour have said they will support leave and remain.kinabalu said:
It is a worry, I won't lie. I also fear the cheap populist appeal of Johnson. And I sense that Jez has become more liability than asset electorally.AlastairMeeks said:That is Labour's problem. There is a complete absence of trust in them among many of their erstwhile voters on the defining subject of the age.
Nevertheless I think that Labour's Brexit position is (on paper) sound.
If we get that pre-Brexit election (which I doubt) it is going to be quite a ride.
Such a frankly bonkers position has turned you into a “no you fuck off you moron” poster.
People who don't trust Labour regardless of what they say effectively don't matter as we can't appeal to them anyway.0 -
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.0 -
What has he done wrong ? He wrote CONFIDENTIAL memos to his employer back home. Many are more than 2 years old...OblitusSumMe said:
Why didn't Daroch have the decency to walk in the first place?rcs1000 said:
Under normal circumastances, the US government would have told us quietly. We'd have gotten rid of him quietly. And we'd all move on.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.
The reason this hasn't happened is because we've been given an order. And because we've been given an order, we cannot comply.
It's obvious he can't do his job once the emails were public.
The leaker should be found and prosecuted for treason, but the Ambassador still has to go.
I agree that ultimately an ambassador cannot work if the host government will not deal with him unless the government is not our friend. You shouldn't expect the UK Ambassador in Pyongyang to be liked by Baby Kim.
However, I cannot see why he should resign. His employer, at a suitable time, can transfer him to some other place where the local chieftain is a sane person. Saudi Arabia may not be a good place.0 -
The only reason why a referendum is on offer is because it may keep a few leave seats. After all if you are confident that Leave will win again switching from Brexit back to a referendum offering Labour isn't a total change as leave would win again..AlastairMeeks said:
Unless there are now too many of them. In which case, irrelevance beckons for Labour.TheJezziah said:
Labours Brexit position isn't designed for your benefit. It offers those who want a referendum what they want and a logical way to do it. If you are in a Labour Tory marginal and you want another referendum above anything else the choice is obvious.TOPPING said:
Labour have said they will support leave and remain.kinabalu said:
It is a worry, I won't lie. I also fear the cheap populist appeal of Johnson. And I sense that Jez has become more liability than asset electorally.AlastairMeeks said:That is Labour's problem. There is a complete absence of trust in them among many of their erstwhile voters on the defining subject of the age.
Nevertheless I think that Labour's Brexit position is (on paper) sound.
If we get that pre-Brexit election (which I doubt) it is going to be quite a ride.
Such a frankly bonkers position has turned you into a “no you fuck off you moron” poster.
People who don't trust Labour regardless of what they say effectively don't matter as we can't appeal to them anyway.0 -
I think I may have alluded to this before, but because Brexit has dominated the conversation for the past 100,000 years there has been little occasion to, namely: I genuinely disapprove of environmentalism as a political stance. Most of the Greens I know are lovely people, and I don't have a problem with most green legislation, but at bottom IMHO it is a luxury not a necessity. The belief that industry can be pared back to obtain fractional health advantages is to my mind a somewhat decadent stance with significant downsides. See also Brexit to gain a fractional advantage, see also the conceit that the defence budget can be perpetually reduced, see also the belief that the currency can be perpetually devalued. In short, strong and rich and working is better than weak and poor and indolent.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite. However, I do like this new warrior for the furnaces of industry against token environmentalist nonsense that we've unearthed in Viewcode. It's very 'fuel protestor circa 2000'. You think you know someone...TGOHF said:
Irish industry seems to be a net loss for the Uk - road maintenance , health impact, for a few sandwiches.viewcode said:
There's a word for places that radically reduce pollution by reducing industry.TGOHF said:
000s of Uk kids without asthma.viewcode said:
150,000 fewer lorries buying petrol in EnglandTGOHF said:
150,000 fewer lorries buying ferry tickets at both ends
150,000 fewer drivers buying sandwiches at petrol stations
150,000 fewer lorries using ports at Liverpool, Milford Haven, Dover, Southampton, that one in Essex I always forget.
But you know, bunnies that cough slightly less often. Yay.
"Poor"0 -
I do understand (unicornish deal notwithstanding).kinabalu said:
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
But the damage being done of supporting two opposing positions is immense. As we are seeing now.0 -
I don’t actually think the Tory’s are aware of what’s happening around them while they argue amongst themselves and deselect decent hard working MPs and fight to be the most purist Brexiteers. I’m no fan of farage but can’t they see that he is successfully building a political movement based on simple populist policies against the perceived metropolitan elite whilst at the same time attempting to mirror the lib dem pavement politics by seeking local campaign issues in various locations. The same is happening on the left whilst they argue about brexit policy, anti-semitism and who they should deselect. The field is wide open but who will fill the vacuum?stodge said:
You and others like you have another option, my friend. If enough people vote Lib Dem, we can be rid of Johnson, Farage, Corbyn AND Brexit in one night.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Indeed to some sadly Malc
Consign the ideologues to the dustbin of history and perhaps you can get your Party back.
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It would still be the case then though.AlastairMeeks said:
Unless there are now too many of them. In which case, irrelevance beckons for Labour.TheJezziah said:
Labours Brexit position isn't designed for your benefit. It offers those who want a referendum what they want and a logical way to do it. If you are in a Labour Tory marginal and you want another referendum above anything else the choice is obvious.TOPPING said:
Labour have said they will support leave and remain.kinabalu said:
It is a worry, I won't lie. I also fear the cheap populist appeal of Johnson. And I sense that Jez has become more liability than asset electorally.AlastairMeeks said:That is Labour's problem. There is a complete absence of trust in them among many of their erstwhile voters on the defining subject of the age.
Nevertheless I think that Labour's Brexit position is (on paper) sound.
If we get that pre-Brexit election (which I doubt) it is going to be quite a ride.
Such a frankly bonkers position has turned you into a “no you fuck off you moron” poster.
People who don't trust Labour regardless of what they say effectively don't matter as we can't appeal to them anyway.
If there are people who could literally write Labours manifesto but still wouldn't vote Labour then there is literally no reason at all for Labour to try to appeal to them. You try to appeal to the people who could vote Labour in the next election.0 -
Double hit0
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"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."kinabalu said:
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal.
I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.0 -
I agree that we now have to leave him in post until Trump has been distracted by something else and then hope he can be shuffled off without Trump noticing when everything has quietened down.rcs1000 said:
Well yes, and had President Trump not had his tantrum on Twitter, he would already have been reassigned. This stuff happens all the time; but it's done through backchannels.OblitusSumMe said:
Why didn't Daroch have the decency to walk in the first place?rcs1000 said:
Under normal circumastances, the US government would have told us quietly. We'd have gotten rid of him quietly. And we'd all move on.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.
The reason this hasn't happened is because we've been given an order. And because we've been given an order, we cannot comply.
It's obvious he can't do his job once the emails were public.
The leaker should be found and prosecuted for treason, but the Ambassador still has to go.
Darroch walking now looks like him being pushed. We can't have Juncker or Trump or Macron or Modi ordering us on Twitter as to who our Ambassadors are.0 -
That’s f9 response keySouthamObserver said:HYUFD said:
As opposed to diehard Remainers who are more loyal to Brussels than they are to the UK in their efforts to overturn the Leave vote 52% of voters voted forSouthamObserver said:
Fluent Telegraph, delivered in a Mail accent, lapsing occasionally into Express. The Conservative party is now more loyal to Donald Trump than it is to the UK, which it would happily see break apart. What an extraordinary debasement of a once great party we are watching.HYUFD said:
Nope, most Tory members think Trump would be a good UK PM as a poll yesterday showed.Scott_P said:Has BoZo blown it?
Hunt may have blown it for the final time though by following the left liberal Remainer elite and Darroch's dismissal of TrumpHYUFD said:
As opposed to diehard Remainers who are more loyal to Brussels than they are to the UK in their efforts to overturn the Leave vote 52% of voters voted forSouthamObserver said:
Fluent Telegraph, delivered in a Mail accent, lapsing occasionally into Express. The Conservative party is now more loyal to Donald Trump than it is to the UK, which it would happily see break apart. What an extraordinary debasement of a once great party we are watching.HYUFD said:
Nope, most Tory members think Trump would be a good UK PM as a poll yesterday showed.Scott_P said:Has BoZo blown it?
Hunt may have blown it for the final time though by following the left liberal Remainer elite and Darroch's dismissal of Trump
Marvellous - “more loyal to Brussels”. Intermediate Telegraph, first year of the GCSE course.HYUFD said:
As opposed to diehard Remainers who are more loyal to Brussels than they are to the UK in their efforts to overturn the Leave vote 52% of voters voted forSouthamObserver said:
Fluent Telegraph, delivered in a Mail accent, lapsing occasionally into Express. The Conservative party is now more loyal to Donald Trump than it is to the UK, which it would happily see break apart. What an extraordinary debasement of a once great party we are watching.HYUFD said:
Nope, most Tory members think Trump would be a good UK PM as a poll yesterday showed.Scott_P said:Has BoZo blown it?
Hunt may have blown it for the final time though by following the left liberal Remainer elite and Darroch's dismissal of Trump0 -
☺nichomar said:I’m glad you have because I don’t know anyone else who has.
Sussed it 'better than most' does not quite map to sussed it.
No, I'm just a little depressed about what I can clearly see is in certain quarters a deliberate attempt to pretend that a clear and easily understood position is some sort of dodgy obfuscation.0 -
Is there anything more boring and predictable than a Trump tantrum on Twitter?0
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Plus very soft brexit vs remain won’t fire up the leavers. Much.surbiton19 said:
"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."kinabalu said:
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal.
I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.0 -
There was one, the TTIP, which Trump threw out upon becoming President.rottenborough said:
why has there not been an EU-USA FTA?nichomar said:
Why do we want a trade deal with the US. The only reason they want one is to improve their trade balance with the U.K. why are we desperate to prostrate ourselves in front of someone who wants to fuck us over to replace our 700 agreements that we currently have. Maybe someone should look at who gains out of a deal with the US but it won’t be the NHS or our farmers.Zephyr said:
“we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to”. I’m not sure. In November we are out the EU without a deal with them, PM Boris will get massive support from his party and media supporters for a businessman in the role to work on that important trade deal. This weeks argy bargy will be history, By that point the national interest is the US/UK trade deal.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.0 -
The policy is to hold a referendum with remain as an option in all circumstances basically.surbiton19 said:
"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."kinabalu said:
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal.
I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.
Or at least that is my understanding from reading PB.
Edit: and most Labour MPs would campaign for remain.0 -
rottenborough said:
why has there not been an EU-USA FTA?nichomar said:
Why do we want a trade deal with the US. The only reason they want one is to improve their trade balance with the U.K. why are we desperate to prostrate ourselves in front of someone who wants to fuck us over to replace our 700 agreements that we currently have. Maybe someone should look at who gains out of a deal with the US but it won’t be the NHS or our farmers.Zephyr said:
“we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to”. I’m not sure. In November we are out the EU without a deal with them, PM Boris will get massive support from his party and media supporters for a businessman in the role to work on that important trade deal. This weeks argy bargy will be history, By that point the national interest is the US/UK trade deal.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.
Good question but as we’re in a much stronger position than the EU and far better at negotiating such deals ours will be concluded in a week😊0 -
Also, Trump will make an exception and allow the UK to increase the balance of trade surplus ? Trump will not export US farm goods and devastate our farmers ? On the second, actually I will not weep too much. They asked for it.nichomar said:rottenborough said:
why has there not been an EU-USA FTA?nichomar said:
Why do we want a trade deal with the US. The only reason they want one is to improve their trade balance with the U.K. why are we desperate to prostrate ourselves in front of someone who wants to fuck us over to replace our 700 agreements that we currently have. Maybe someone should look at who gains out of a deal with the US but it won’t be the NHS or our farmers.Zephyr said:
“we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to”. I’m not sure. In November we are out the EU without a deal with them, PM Boris will get massive support from his party and media supporters for a businessman in the role to work on that important trade deal. This weeks argy bargy will be history, By that point the national interest is the US/UK trade deal.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.
Good question but as we’re in a much stronger position than the EU and far better at negotiating such deals ours will be concluded in a week😊0 -
Nick. I'm sure you'll agree that it has never been more important for a left of centre (preferably Labour) government to get rid of Johnson and his frankly horrible allies. More important even than removing Thatcher during her slash and burn period in the mid 80's.NickPalmer said:
You're mistaken. I know him and have discussed it with him in detail. Have you? You'd be on sounder ground if you said he didn't care that much, but he is mildly pro-Remain, partly because he thinks that socialism in one country is no longer a feasible project, and partly because he sees more allies on the Continent than in the past.Tabman said:
Labour's manifesto "commitment" is not worth the paper it's written on. Corbyn (and Milne) want Brexit; simple as. Starmer, all the Labour remainers, and Labour voters, are being played for fools.kinabalu said:
If a manifesto commitment to Ref2 (with Remain as an option) is not sufficient for you, this implies that your vote is not going Labour's way regardless.Tabman said:I'm sure I'm not the only person who trusted Labour to deliver a proportional voting system as promised in their 1997 manifesto.
"Fool me twice; shame on me."
Seeing as you know Corbyn well enough to have a private chat with him can't you implore him to resign because he doesn't have the slightest chance of winning an election. It's clear as daylight in the polls.
I happen to think he's a person of integrity and I don't believe for a moment he's a racist but he's going to lose. The public just don't want what he's offering0 -
I know you may not like it but if that is the case, I am all for it. Well done John, Diane, Emily...…………………….TheJezziah said:
The policy is to hold a referendum with remain as an option in all circumstances basically.surbiton19 said:
"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."kinabalu said:
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal.
I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.
Or at least that is my understanding from reading PB.
Edit: and most Labour MPs would campaign for remain.0 -
1. you have to trust corbyn to actually have a referendum after he wins a commons majority and negotiates a deal he is happy with, I don’t think he would claiming he had a mandate for his policy.TheJezziah said:
The policy is to hold a referendum with remain as an option in all circumstances basically.surbiton19 said:
"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."kinabalu said:
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal.
I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.
Or at least that is my understanding from reading PB.
Edit: and most Labour MPs would campaign for remain.
2. I don’t think he will throw his weight behind any remain campaign and will go on holiday whilst it is going on.
He is responsible for this mess by his piss poor performance in the referendum to bring labour voters on side.0 -
@Big_G_NorthWales
Yes I'm looking forward to the Panorama programme. Open mind.
@Gardenwalker
OK but that only holds for people who are more against Corbyn than they are against Brexit. If Remain is the top priority then surely you vote Labour in any seat where they are best placed to beat either Tory or BP?0 -
Grieve amendment through by one vote.0
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Or, that one went the way you wanted it to... So no re-run.justin124 said:
That by election was not a Brexit referendum.GIN1138 said:Now we know so much more about Labour's Brexit position shouldn't the voters of peterborough have another go?
We only ignore and cancel votes we don't agree with...
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I am against Corbyn, Farage, the Tories, and Brexit, in equal measure.kinabalu said:@Big_G_NorthWales
Yes I'm looking forward to the Panorama programme. Open mind.
@Gardenwalker
OK but that only holds for people who are more against Corbyn than they are against Brexit. If Remain is the top priority then surely you vote Labour in any seat where they are best placed to beat either Tory or BP?
As it happens I am in a safe Labour seat.
But if was in a true Tory / Labour swing seat I would still not vote for either of them.0 -
Almost all boys though, particularly the perma-posters. As with real life I suspect,TOPPING said:
I'm not talking about on here, I'm talking about on Nus Ghani's twitterfeed. We're all big boys on here.surbiton19 said:
I can only find one person here using nasty, horrible words. It ain't me !TOPPING said:
I am already happy. But I now see firsthand how the whole bullying of (especially female) MPs develops. Anonymous dickheads on the internet making nasty comments that they don't see any problems with.surbiton19 said:
If that is all you can come up with, I'll make you happy: you are sad too !TOPPING said:
Yep, as an anonymous one-liner. To a female MP. You have plenty of thoughts about life I don't see why you couldn't have elaborated.surbiton19 said:
"sad" is nasty ?TOPPING said:
What a nasty comment you wrote on Nusrat Ghani's twitter feed. Although I suppose it's easy to make any kind of comment anonymously to an Asian woman on the internet.surbiton19 said:
How are semi final tickets allocated for the football world cup ? Surely after the playing teams are known.AndyJS said:I just hope there aren't a lot of empty seats at Edgbaston on Thursday. That really would be a public relations disaster for the ICC.
Apart from @Philip_Thompson.0 -
Did the economic benefits offset the costs of road wear, pollution and congestion?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The night before last I took my youngest son, his partner and two of our grandchildren to Manchester Airport leaving here at 1.00am. The A55 eastbound was full of Irish HGV coming from the overnight ferry and heading to England. Additionally there were an extraordinary number of horse wagons, some very elaborate in the same convoy of vehicles.surbiton19 said:
Yes, that is correct. Currently, it takes about 18 hours for the Food trucks to reach Europe through the land bridge. Direct shipment will mean 48-72 hours. For example, just Rosslare to Cherbourg will take 15 hours. Plus all the additional road miles.CarlottaVance said:
Which is fine as long as it’s not fresh food...rcs1000 said:
If there were queues back to the M25, then Ireland would simply use its container ports to export to Hamburg or Rotterdam. It would add 2-5 days to travel times, and would (in aggregate) be marginally negative to costs.tlg86 said:
But it's not in our control, is it? We're told that in the event of no deal, there will be queues back to the M25. Will we be expected to allow Irish vehicles through so as not to inconvenience them?rcs1000 said:
Ireland has a number of container ports, some of which are a reasonable size. None of them are - as far as I know - operating at capacity.Scott_P said:
Ummm, yes they are, actually...TGOHF said:Those potatoes aint going to float to Germany..
Day rates for 1700 TEU container vessels are around $8,150 which is about average for the last five years.
In the event of the "land bridge" being closed (which given our various treaty commitments outside the EU is incredibly small), then Irish exports to the rest of the EU would take 2-5 days longer than currently, and would probably cost marginally more. (On a per mile basis, container ships are more expensive than road but, of course, you still need roads at either end.)
Closing the "land bridge" would be a very hostile act, and one that would have only modestly negative impacts on Irish exports to the rest of the EU.
It does show the importance of the Holyhead land bridge0 -
Pulpstar said:
I'd have thought Robinson's chances of getting into the US would be slim given he has various convictions already.
Trump likes a criminal. You might note that he’s been remarkably quiet over Epstein, child sex and sex trafficking. It’s almost as if the British ambassador is a useful diversion and he is listening to objective legal advice.0 -
"Jeremy Hunt looks like he's fucking high" says Mrs RP as the debate comes on...1
-
Didn’t see you as an autarky fan.Charles said:
Did the economic benefits offset the costs of road wear, pollution and congestion?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The night before last I took my youngest son, his partner and two of our grandchildren to Manchester Airport leaving here at 1.00am. The A55 eastbound was full of Irish HGV coming from the overnight ferry and heading to England. Additionally there were an extraordinary number of horse wagons, some very elaborate in the same convoy of vehicles.surbiton19 said:
Yes, that is correct. Currently, it takes about 18 hours for the Food trucks to reach Europe through the land bridge. Direct shipment will mean 48-72 hours. For example, just Rosslare to Cherbourg will take 15 hours. Plus all the additional road miles.CarlottaVance said:
Which is fine as long as it’s not fresh food...rcs1000 said:
If there were queues back to the M25, then Ireland would simply use its container ports to export to Hamburg or Rotterdam. It would add 2-5 days to travel times, and would (in aggregate) be marginally negative to costs.tlg86 said:
But it's not in our control, is it? We're told that in the event of no deal, there will be queues back to the M25. Will we be expected to allow Irish vehicles through so as not to inconvenience them?rcs1000 said:
Ireland has a number of container ports, some of which are a reasonable size. None of them are - as far as I know - operating at capacity.Scott_P said:
Ummm, yes they are, actually...TGOHF said:Those potatoes aint going to float to Germany..
Day rates for 1700 TEU container vessels are around $8,150 which is about average for the last five years.
In the event of the "land bridge" being closed (which given our various treaty commitments outside the EU is incredibly small), then Irish exports to the rest of the EU would take 2-5 days longer than currently, and would probably cost marginally more. (On a per mile basis, container ships are more expensive than road but, of course, you still need roads at either end.)
Closing the "land bridge" would be a very hostile act, and one that would have only modestly negative impacts on Irish exports to the rest of the EU.
It does show the importance of the Holyhead land bridge0 -
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-deal-brexit-will-see-checks-on-uk-imports-but-not-at-border-says-goverment-1.3951392
Irish Govt today has issued a doc on no deal plans. They have admitted that the required checks will not be at the border. Well what a surprise.
Having said that what is interesting to me is the extent of the preparations that are ongoing in EU27 countries for no deal. My take on this is that there will not be a guaranteed extension or an easy extension, the EU leaders seem to have decided enough is enough.0 -
To Wales yesCharles said:
Did the economic benefits offset the costs of road wear, pollution and congestion?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The night before last I took my youngest son, his partner and two of our grandchildren to Manchester Airport leaving here at 1.00am. The A55 eastbound was full of Irish HGV coming from the overnight ferry and heading to England. Additionally there were an extraordinary number of horse wagons, some very elaborate in the same convoy of vehicles.surbiton19 said:
Yes, that is correct. Currently, it takes about 18 hours for the Food trucks to reach Europe through the land bridge. Direct shipment will mean 48-72 hours. For example, just Rosslare to Cherbourg will take 15 hours. Plus all the additional road miles.CarlottaVance said:
Which is fine as long as it’s not fresh food...rcs1000 said:
If there were queues back to the M25, then Ireland would simply use its container ports to export to Hamburg or Rotterdam. It would add 2-5 days to travel times, and would (in aggregate) be marginally negative to costs.tlg86 said:
But it's not in our control, is it? We're told that in the event of no deal, there will be queues back to the M25. Will we be expected to allow Irish vehicles through so as not to inconvenience them?rcs1000 said:
Ireland has a number of container ports, some of which are a reasonable size. None of them are - as far as I know - operating at capacity.Scott_P said:
Ummm, yes they are, actually...TGOHF said:Those potatoes aint going to float to Germany..
Day rates for 1700 TEU container vessels are around $8,150 which is about average for the last five years.
In the event of the "land bridge" being closed (which given our various treaty commitments outside the EU is incredibly small), then Irish exports to the rest of the EU would take 2-5 days longer than currently, and would probably cost marginally more. (On a per mile basis, container ships are more expensive than road but, of course, you still need roads at either end.)
Closing the "land bridge" would be a very hostile act, and one that would have only modestly negative impacts on Irish exports to the rest of the EU.
It does show the importance of the Holyhead land bridge0 -
Boris v Hunt live now on ITV
0 -
Boris - "I believe I am the right person to unleash on this project". Ladies of Britain start shirting nervously...0
-
Media spin will be:RochdalePioneers said:"Jeremy Hunt looks like he's fucking high" says Mrs RP as the debate comes on...
Epic fail for Boris. Hunt knocked it out of the park.
You just know before it begins...0 -
Hunt was an entreprenur? Has he ever mentioned this before?1
-
Policies aside it doesn't say much for the current state of America that such an ignorant, bullying man-baby was deemed the best person to hold the office of President. It makes respecting the office very hard indeed.AndyJS said:Is there anything more boring and predictable than a Trump tantrum on Twitter?
0 -
Was that HYUFD asking the first question?0
-
I think Nigel Farage might be enjoying this...0
-
All of 4 nanoseconds in and Bozza is evading the question.
Shocked I am, shocked0 -
Send that message to Hilary Clinton. A living monument to entitlement over reality.OllyT said:
Policies aside it doesn't say much for the current state of America that such an ignorant, bullying man-baby was deemed the best person to hold the office of President. It makes respecting the office very hard indeed.AndyJS said:Is there anything more boring and predictable than a Trump tantrum on Twitter?
0 -
Haha!0
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Hunt cornering Boris on resigning if we are not out on the 31st October0
-
Justice, where possible, is better open and transparent. The ability to intimidate people in private (“if you don’t shut up we’ll charge you”) is a greater risk than it all being in the openNickPalmer said:
I'd sign if it was for all offences - seems entirely right. I don't see why people accused of sexual offences should be given special protection, though.rural_voter said:Slightly off topic, this petition deserves more signatures to secure justice for innocent people who are wrongly accused of crimes, e.g. as a result of incompetence and have their reputation shredded even if they're innocent
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/247912/signatures/new
I first saw a reference to it on Peter Hitchens' blog, which I read now and then.
However as can be seen from the Richard, Brittain, Gambacini cases an accusation of child abuse has a massive impact on career and reputation. (Rape might be a similar one). It’s reasonable to have a bright line test - a charge - before that damage is caused.
The counter argument is that it putting out a public notice might encourage othe
r witnesses/complainants to come forward. I don’t buy that - it feels like a fishing attempt - but for edge cases (the evidence isn’t quite conclusive enough) then perhaps there can be an announcement with judicial approval0 -
When we all become destitute after Brexit we won't be able to afford to use polluting private transport and as we can't afford to buy anything there will be no need for commercial deliveries and packaging waste will be reduced to a minimum too. Carbon footprint with no industrial pollution will be greatly reduced. Environmentally speaking- a significant step forward.CatMan said:
When the f*** did Brexit become an environmental project?Charles said:
Did the economic benefits offset the costs of road wear, pollution and congestion?0 -
As a staunch leaver, I totally agree! I see no reason to get out of one restrictive arrangement to jump straight into another one. Why don't we just try selling things that people want to buy?nichomar said:
Why do we want a trade deal with the US. The only reason they want one is to improve their trade balance with the U.K. why are we desperate to prostrate ourselves in front of someone who wants to fuck us over to replace our 700 agreements that we currently have. Maybe someone should look at who gains out of a deal with the US but it won’t be the NHS or our farmers.Zephyr said:
“we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to”. I’m not sure. In November we are out the EU without a deal with them, PM Boris will get massive support from his party and media supporters for a businessman in the role to work on that important trade deal. This weeks argy bargy will be history, By that point the national interest is the US/UK trade deal.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.1 -
Are ITV running ads tonight?0
-
Grieve amendment wins by 1. Labour holding off the Brexit Party in Peterborough last month could prove to be very, very significant...0
-
Low blow by Hunt I think - as leaving on 31 Oct is not 100% within Boris's control.
If Parliament stops us leaving on 31 Oct then not reasonable to say Boris has to resign.
Also would not be in the interest of the Con party for Boris to then resign.0 -
Because the people who would buy them can only do so if the product meets their national standardsLuckyguy1983 said:
As a staunch leaver, I totally agree! I see no reason to get out of one restrictive arrangement to jump straight into another one. Why don't we just try selling things that people want to buy?nichomar said:
Why do we want a trade deal with the US. The only reason they want one is to improve their trade balance with the U.K. why are we desperate to prostrate ourselves in front of someone who wants to fuck us over to replace our 700 agreements that we currently have. Maybe someone should look at who gains out of a deal with the US but it won’t be the NHS or our farmers.Zephyr said:
“we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to”. I’m not sure. In November we are out the EU without a deal with them, PM Boris will get massive support from his party and media supporters for a businessman in the role to work on that important trade deal. This weeks argy bargy will be history, By that point the national interest is the US/UK trade deal.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.0 -
They are both useless brexit brexit brexit Johnson shouty pompous and ignorant Hunt uselessbut honest0
-
For whichever party other than Tory or BP that has the best chance of winning the seat.surbiton19 said:So you agree that in Don Valley, a Remainer should vote for LD or Green [ I presume LD ]
0 -
Much better debate than the BBC fiasco0
-
As, of course, is the recall of the MP for B+R.not_on_fire said:Grieve amendment wins by 1. Labour holding off the Brexit Party in Peterborough last month could prove to be very, very significant...
0 -
Julie much better than Emily but it is not easy to control this form of debateGarethoftheVale2 said:Much better debate than the BBC fiasco
0 -
Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.0
-
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.1 -
I am close to certain - yes.surbiton19 said:Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal.
I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.
But of course the exact text of the manifesto commitment will not be available unless and until the election is called.0 -
Oh lordy lord. I will need to get sooooo drunk if Bozza gets the gig. An endless procession of factless bullshit.
Pity for Hunt is that he has missed the point. This is a hustings for Tory Party members who don't care about the details he is trying to take Boris apart for not knowing0 -
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.0 -
Boris is a complete clown. Can anyone seriously think otherwise? He makes Theresa May and even Jeremy Hunt seem like competent politicians.0
-
If it isn't in his control, then he ought not to have made such a big deal of it.MikeL said:Low blow by Hunt I think - as leaving on 31 Oct is not 100% within Boris's control.
If Parliament stops us leaving on 31 Oct then not reasonable to say Boris has to resign.
Also would not be in the interest of the Con party for Boris to then resign.
This isn't a Telegraph column where he can spout any old nonsense, made-up shit or cheap point consequence free.
He made October 31 into a major issue. Perfectly in order to ask him to resign if he doesn't achieve it.0 -
Former Independent US Presidential candidate Ross Perot dies aged 89
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2019/07/09/ross-perot-texan-billionaire-whose-two-attempts-run-president/0 -
I don't think a trade deal is needed for that. Unless I'm imagining my all made outside the EU clothes and I've actually been naked all day.not_on_fire said:
Because the people who would buy them can only do so if the product meets their national standardsLuckyguy1983 said:
As a staunch leaver, I totally agree! I see no reason to get out of one restrictive arrangement to jump straight into another one. Why don't we just try selling things that people want to buy?nichomar said:
Why do we want a trade deal with the US. The only reason they want one is to improve their trade balance with the U.K. why are we desperate to prostrate ourselves in front of someone who wants to fuck us over to replace our 700 agreements that we currently have. Maybe someone should look at who gains out of a deal with the US but it won’t be the NHS or our farmers.Zephyr said:
“we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to”. I’m not sure. In November we are out the EU without a deal with them, PM Boris will get massive support from his party and media supporters for a businessman in the role to work on that important trade deal. This weeks argy bargy will be history, By that point the national interest is the US/UK trade deal.Luckyguy1983 said:Rcs is quite right, we cannot get rid of Daroch now we've been told to.
Hunt's response is understandable as a last ditch attempt to differentiate himself and be on the 'right' side of the debate. Boris' response is coming from the fact that he will be in office soon and he's keeping his options open.0 -
I’m not.matt said:
Didn’t see you as an autarky fan.Charles said:
Did the economic benefits offset the costs of road wear, pollution and congestion?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The night before last I took my youngest son, his partner and two of our grandchildren to Manchester Airport leaving here at 1.00am. The A55 eastbound was full of Irish HGV coming from the overnight ferry and heading to England. Additionally there were an extraordinary number of horse wagons, some very elaborate in the same convoy of vehicles.surbiton19 said:
Yes, that is correct. Currently, it takes about 18 hours for the Food trucks to reach Europe through the land bridge. Direct shipment will mean 48-72 hours. For example, just Rosslare to Cherbourg will take 15 hours. Plus all the additional road miles.CarlottaVance said:
Which is fine as long as it’s not fresh food...rcs1000 said:
If there were queues back to the M25, then Ireland would simply use its container ports to export to Hamburg or Rotterdam. It would add 2-5 days to travel times, and would (in aggregate) be marginally negative to costs.tlg86 said:
But it's not in our control, is it? We're told that in the event of no deal, there will be queues back to the M25. Will we be expected to allow Irish vehicles through so as not to inconvenience them?rcs1000 said:
Ireland has a number of container ports, some of which are a reasonable size. None of them are - as far as I know - operating at capacity.Scott_P said:
Ummm, yes they are, actually...TGOHF said:Those potatoes aint going to float to Germany..
Day rates for 1700 TEU container vessels are around $8,150 which is about average for the last five years.
In the event of the "land bridge" being closed (which given our various treaty commitments outside the EU is incredibly small), then Irish exports to the rest of the EU would take 2-5 days longer than currently, and would probably cost marginally more. (On a per mile basis, container ships are more expensive than road but, of course, you still need roads at either end.)
Closing the "land bridge" would be a very hostile act, and one that would have only modestly negative impacts on Irish exports to the rest of the EU.
It does show the importance of the Holyhead land bridge
But acting as a land bridge does not necessarily add value to our economy0 -
We're just puzzled why do didn’t draw two giant cocks on the ballot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.0 -
There’s a reason why Boris Johnson seeks to avoid scrutiny as much as is humanly possible: he’s utterly crap.0
-
Johnson waffles and fibs eloquently with his characteristic bumbling charm.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.0 -
We should have taxed all HGVs entering the country (or locally owned) to cover the cost of negative externalities such as road wear and pollutionCatMan said:
When the f*** did Brexit become an environmental project?Charles said:
Did the economic benefits offset the costs of road wear, pollution and congestion?0 -
Is there going to be a poll after this like Farage vs Clegg?0
-
Where’s the charm?Mexicanpete said:
Johnson waffles and fibs eloquently with his characteristic bumbling charm.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.
He can’t joke his way out of this one.0 -
Yes, that's my understanding too.surbiton19 said:
"In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent."kinabalu said:
Which both surprises and frustrates me.TOPPING said:Evidently much better than all the news bulletins which describe the Labour position in exactly those terms.
In opposition Labour push for Ref2 on any Johnson deal or on No Deal and if they get it they campaign 100% for Remain.
In government Labour negotiate a very soft Brexit and hold Ref2 on that versus Remain. They allow the party (members and MPs) to campaign on either side. The Wilson 1975 precedent.
There is nothing bonkers or absurd about any of the above. It stacks up.
Are you certain about this ? If this is indeed the case, then this is a change of policy because Remain is then available to us even with a Labour Brexit proposal.
I can live with this, if your interpretation is correct.0 -
You can’t claim all the benefits (Holyhead) and only a portion of the costsBig_G_NorthWales said:
To Wales yesCharles said:
Did the economic benefits offset the costs of road wear, pollution and congestion?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The night before last I took my youngest son, his partner and two of our grandchildren to Manchester Airport leaving here at 1.00am. The A55 eastbound was full of Irish HGV coming from the overnight ferry and heading to England. Additionally there were an extraordinary number of horse wagons, some very elaborate in the same convoy of vehicles.surbiton19 said:
Yes, that is correct. Currently, it takes about 18 hours for the Food trucks to reach Europe through the land bridge. Direct shipment will mean 48-72 hours. For example, just Rosslare to Cherbourg will take 15 hours. Plus all the additional road miles.CarlottaVance said:
Which is fine as long as it’s not fresh food...rcs1000 said:
If there were queues back to the M25, then Ireland would simply use its container ports to export to Hamburg or Rotterdam. It would add 2-5 days to travel times, and would (in aggregate) be marginally negative to costs.tlg86 said:
But it's not in our control, is it? We're told that in the event of no deal, there will be queues back to the M25. Will we be expected to allow Irish vehicles through so as not to inconvenience them?rcs1000 said:
Ireland has a number of container ports, some of which are a reasonable size. None of them are - as far as I know - operating at capacity.Scott_P said:
Ummm, yes they are, actually...TGOHF said:Those potatoes aint going to float to Germany..
Day rates for 1700 TEU container vessels are around $8,150 which is about average for the last five years.
In the event of the "land bridge" being closed (which given our various treaty commitments outside the EU is incredibly small), then Irish exports to the rest of the EU would take 2-5 days longer than currently, and would probably cost marginally more. (On a per mile basis, container ships are more expensive than road but, of course, you still need roads at either end.)
Closing the "land bridge" would be a very hostile act, and one that would have only modestly negative impacts on Irish exports to the rest of the EU.
It does show the importance of the Holyhead land bridge0 -
Because I do not need to lose my self respectSandyRentool said:
We're just puzzled why do didn’t draw two giant cocks on the ballot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.0 -
This is dire.0
-
Watching this now, I can see there already were two giant cocks on the ballot.SandyRentool said:
We're just puzzled why do didn’t draw two giant cocks on the ballot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.1 -
At least Hunt looks like he's rehearsed for this. Johnson is just winging it. He's lucky that the audience are Ukipers. I dread him being PM.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.0 -
The joke I fear is on us.Gardenwalker said:
Where’s the charm?Mexicanpete said:
Johnson waffles and fibs eloquently with his characteristic bumbling charm.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.
He can’t joke his way out of this one.0 -
And yet he tells idiots what they want to hear and so will walk itSouthamObserver said:There’s a reason why Boris Johnson seeks to avoid scrutiny as much as is humanly possible: he’s utterly crap.
0 -
IndeedMaxPB said:This is dire.
0 -
This is incredibly poor.0
-
Boris says he would not do a deal with Brexit Party, can deliver Brexit ourselves and make the case to country for modern conservatism0
-
You're a cut above the rest of us Mr G!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Because I do not need to lose my self respectSandyRentool said:
We're just puzzled why do didn’t draw two giant cocks on the ballot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.0 -
The format is much better than the BBC’s.
(The BBC’s public service role another casualty of Brexit it seems).0 -
Not watching but seems as if Boris is confirming he will be an absolute disaster.Big_G_NorthWales said:
IndeedMaxPB said:This is dire.
0 -
The first statement may well turn out to be a whopper!HYUFD said:Boris says he would not do a deal with Brexit Party, can deliver Brexit ourselves and make the case to country for modern conservatism
0 -
Not sure the audience is ukippers.Roger said:
At least Hunt looks like he's rehearsed for this. Johnson is just winging it. He's lucky that the audience are Ukipers. I dread him being PM.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe those of you watching can see why my ballot paper was returned with 'neither'Gardenwalker said:
Johnson is a waffler and liar.Artist said:Apart from the leaving date I can't see much difference between Hunt and Boris on Brexit.
That’s the difference.0
This discussion has been closed.