Corbyn's EUref2 commitment today though should win back some LD voters giving the Tories the lead again and re splitting the Remain vote but not enough to win as he still commits to campaign for a Labour Brexit
Of course Brexit cannot be delivered without a Tory majority anyway as the current Commons will vote against the Withdrawal Agreement again and for extension or revoke over No Deal
Corbyn's EUref2 commitment today though should win back some LD voters giving the Tories the lead again and re splitting the Remain vote but not enough to win as he still commits to campaign for a Labour Brexit
How many people do you think will trust him, Mr HY? I would have thought most people would not.
The highly spun article in the Sun yesterday suggests Jeremy Hunt has a good idea who was responsible for the leak and is VERY keen that attention is diverted to the Russians
Surely it suggests Hunt was just answering a silly question about whether the Russians leaked it: Of course it would be massively concerning if it was the act of a foreign, hostile state. I’ve seen no evidence that that’s the case.
The idea (or misdirection) it was a foreign state comes from a different, unnamed "senior government figure" elsewhere in the article.
One reason to think it wasn't the Russians, is that the emails weren't dumped on the internet, they were passed to Oakeshott but someone who was presumably checked out by her editors. They would have to be extraordinarily dozy to publish them without being highly confident of their origin.
The Russian business is absolute balls. Hunt thinks the rest of us are as fucking thick as the tory membership.
Read what Hunt said.
He was answering a hypothetical - its someone else trying to spin "Russians"
Corbyn's EUref2 commitment today though should win back some LD voters giving the Tories the lead again and re splitting the Remain vote but not enough to win as he still commits to campaign for a Labour Brexit
How many people do you think will trust him, Mr HY? I would have thought most people would not.
Not enough true but he wins back enough Remainers to stop the LDs tieing the Tories for first.
The key at the next general election is if Boris' Brexit Deal or No Deal commitment wins back enough Brexit Party voters behind the Tories to win without enough Remainers uniting behind Labour or the LDs under FPTP for them to win
I just stuck a cheeky fiver on Davey. Thoroughly decent-seeming bloke. Would appeal to a sensible Conservative type such as myself as leader of the LDs. And who knows what else in the fullness of time.
The polling question in scenario two doesn't indicate what kind of Brexit is envisaged. That would make a lot of difference.
Indeed. No deal or WDA? Chaos, or little noticeable change? That is 4 combinations of possible scenarios already. Making any such polling as good as worthless.
Remainers won't believe Jezza is really interested in calling off Brexit and will stick with Lib-Dem and Green while they've now pretty much burned their bridges with Labour Leavers...
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority. I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
The assumption is that everybody who voted to leave the EU in the famous referendum will meekly fall into line and back Boris Conservatives, whatever their other policies may be, and however stupid and incompetent they are. However, not many people voted to wreck the country, as the Conservative project is set on doing. If you make assumptions in the HY manner, it is quite easy to proclaim a Tory victory, and this encourages you to keep going in the face of reality.
The real question is just how many days will Mr Johnson stay in office?
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
I agree. He has a window. And as @Mysticrose has pointed out, may be forced into that position in any case.
I think Lab's line of a Lab fluffy lovely Brexit vs a Tory nasty baby-eating Brexit will backfire although tbf they are on a hiding to nothing.
"Once we've delivered Brexit" seems to be the new "deal done in an afternoon" / "we hold all the cards" / "German car manufacturers are coming to our rescue" / "we can rely on GATT 24" / "little Ireland will have to back down in the end" / "Only a leaver can unite the Conservative party"
A nice little slogan, aspiration never hurt, but it's all reliant on other parties doing things totally against their interest. Brexit will take decades to play out however orderly. All the trade negotiations, legislation for setting up our new regulatory environment, immigration rules, customs and tariffs, etc.
But the idea that somehow, the promised land for Tories is just round the corner "once Brexit has been delivered" is just another comfort blanket that doesn't survive scrutiny. The Tories are likely to have to face the next General Election with Brexit either in chaos or still log-jammed and us inside the EU. Perhaps a better way of thinking about it would be who would vote Tory above the 9% who did in the Euro elections. Those who like their MP perhaps. Those who don't see it as a free hit. Those who like Corbyn even less. Not sure they will get you nearer 20% than 9% bluntly.
Are the Tories really ready to fight on that basis? The LIb Dems know what happens when you fight a general election with great incumbents but an 8% poll rating. The Tories can go down as well as up....
NB The Brexit party supporters don't disappear just because Brexit has been delivered. This seems to be the hope of the Conservatives but there's no evidence of it.
This polling should terrify the Labour party too. They are expected to get absolutely no benefit from Brexit being seen in the rear view mirror. They can only hope that's incorrect in practice.
I just stuck a cheeky fiver on Davey. Thoroughly decent-seeming bloke. Would appeal to a sensible Conservative type such as myself as leader of the LDs. And who knows what else in the fullness of time.
And that's exactly the reason I'm now leaning Davey (but choosing to vote late if anything big comes up.) If the LIb Dems are to make big gains next time, it's the Home Counties seats, London seats, West Country seats where the gains are coming - and 1 or 2 in Scotland. I'm coming to the view that Ed's got more chance to persuade the usually Tory voters in the shire towns that the Lib Dems can be trusted with their vote.
Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party have an offer for left-behind Britain. The new party, which finished first at the European Parliament elections and is averaging 22% in the Westminster polls, has unveiled how it plans to fight a general election that could come as early as this autumn – by morphing into a regionalist party.
It proposes to withhold payments to the EU, slash overseas aid and scrap HS2 high-speed rail in order to deliver £200 billion of investment to regions outside London, improve transport links and broadband across the country and scrap business rates for new firms outside the capital. It is casting itself, as Freddie Sayers noted, “as the party of the regions, pitted against an over-dominant capital”.
I just stuck a cheeky fiver on Davey. Thoroughly decent-seeming bloke. Would appeal to a sensible Conservative type such as myself as leader of the LDs. And who knows what else in the fullness of time.
And that's exactly the reason I'm now leaning Davey (but choosing to vote late if anything big comes up.) If the LIb Dems are to make big gains next time, it's the Home Counties seats, London seats, West Country seats where the gains are coming - and 1 or 2 in Scotland. I'm coming to the view that Ed's got more chance to persuade the usually Tory voters in the shire towns that the Lib Dems can be trusted with their vote.
It's up to the LD members to be as ruthlessly efficient as Cons MPs were. There, they kept a keen eye on overall electability and how the candidates polled (as evidenced by @HYUFD). That was, for the MPs, the determining factor for their selection. It should be every voters' also.
NB The Brexit party supporters don't disappear just because Brexit has been delivered. This seems to be the hope of the Conservatives but there's no evidence of it. .
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
A chance of a majority. On 23%. If you say so.
On the figures given above, Electoral Calculus predicts:
Con 168 Lab 152 Brexit 175 Lib Dem 93 SNP 41 Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
Putting the Scenario 1 values into Baxter shows Brexit as the largest party on 175 seats, taking Aberavon from Stephen Kinnock and Bolsover from Dennis Skinner, also beating Liz Truss and Rory Stewasrt. Yet they came third in Scenario 1. It just seems unlikely, I guess it's because Labour is dooing so badly?
NB The Brexit party supporters don't disappear just because Brexit has been delivered. This seems to be the hope of the Conservatives but there's no evidence of it.
Difficult to find evidence for something that hasn't happened, but the polling suggests that a lot of Brexit Party supporters will stop voting for that party if the Tories have a Hard Brexit leader and if Brexit is achieved. The second poll above suggests that the Tories could win a post-Brexit election with 28% of the vote, so they won't mind too much if some of Farage's fans stick with him.
'Scenario 2: Imagine that a General Election is held later this year after Brexit has been delivered.'
That 'after Brexit has been delivered' is massively problematic. Nigel will scream betrayal no matter what Boris serves up and probably all of TBP and many Tories will take Nigel's side. Boris is stuffed unless he kisses Nigel's spurs and begs for his patronage.
It's worth bearing in mind, however, that proroguing parliament is not only a nuclear option, it's also a nuclear option aimed at No Deal: there are lots of regulations which would need to be passed, including very basic ones on things like regulations for agriculture (necessary if we're going to sell ANY food products to the EU). So even if Grieve's remaining amendments don't rule out proroguing parliament, they probably would have the effect in practice of allowing parliament to rule out a 31st October No Deal (subject to EU consent on an extension, or perhaps in the extreme by revocation of Article 50, although that's unclear).
Noone of the polling can be trusted. I currently think I will vote LD in the GE as the Tories have gone mad and Labour are even worse and seriously anti-Semitic... but I will not know for sure until I get into the polling booth. If the risk of Corbyn is great I might have to think long and hard b4 deciding
Donald Trump is almost pitiable. The puncturing of his vanity is visibly unendurable for him.
A man with the most horrendous daddy issues. He's obviously been obsessing about it for a couple of days, whereas his predecessors in recent decades (with the exception of Nixon) would have shrugged and said to themselves, "Well, I'm the President, so I win."
Could we not get some top Hollywood CGI people to reanimate Fred Trump and have him visit Donald to say "I'm proud of you son". Would save a lot of trouble.
'Scenario 2: Imagine that a General Election is held later this year after Brexit has been delivered.'
That 'after Brexit has been delivered' is massively problematic. Nigel will scream betrayal no matter what Boris serves up and probably all of TBP and many Tories will take Nigel's side. Boris is stuffed unless he kisses Nigel's spurs and begs for his patronage.
"Scenario 3: Imagine that Bozo has had to Revoke and is then VONCed by parliament..."
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
A chance of a majority. On 23%. If you say so.
On the figures given above, Electoral Calculus predicts:
Con 168 Lab 152 Brexit 175 Lib Dem 93 SNP 41 Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
That would mean implying that Theresa May has done a good job at Brexit.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
Err, isn't Trump saying the same thing as Corbyn says, that the government has screwed up the Brexit negotiations?
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
Trouble is that would reinforce complaints about Corbyn's kneejerk anti-Americanism.
They only need 2 runs a ball to get to about 260, and you'd think that's possible from the last 4 overs. If they ever take place...
You have to ask then what were they doing from overs 20 to 35/40 ? If this pitch and with Bumrah bowling at that suddenly yields 12 runs an over, a lot needs to be said about their approach earlier.
Taylor, and Williamson, are culpable. Even very good bowling should yield 3 singles during the middle overs and a few boundaries here and there. New Zealand are the worst semi-finalists for a long and lucky that their match against India was washed out. India would be pleased though as that meant Pakistan could not qualify.
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
A chance of a majority. On 23%. If you say so.
On the figures given above, Electoral Calculus predicts:
Con 168 Lab 152 Brexit 175 Lib Dem 93 SNP 41 Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
In any case, it's hardly 'supine Tory silence' not to want to get involved in a slanging match with Trump.
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
Such hypothetical polling is a waste of time. Dependent on too many 'What If?' scenarios . Also based on Leading Questions stressing Brexit and the leaders.
The polling question in scenario two doesn't indicate what kind of Brexit is envisaged. That would make a lot of difference.
Indeed. No deal or WDA? Chaos, or little noticeable change? That is 4 combinations of possible scenarios already. Making any such polling as good as worthless.
Well perhaps not entirely worthless.
You can assume that some of those putative voters are going to be disappointed. It will be too much or too little Brexit for some of them. And then there's the likely disappointment when the sunlit uplands post-Brexit are slow to appear.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
That would mean implying that Theresa May has done a good job at Brexit.
I think there is a bit more ammunition there than that. It's none of Trump's business is a start. Then there are the relentless attacks on the UK's ambassador and Trump's public angling to get him replaced. It would take a distinct lack of political skill to fail to make hay. That is probably more the problem.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
Trouble is that would reinforce complaints about Corbyn's kneejerk anti-Americanism.
As I say, a rare occasion to speak on behalf of the majority.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
In any case, it's hardly 'supine Tory silence' not to want to get involved in a slanging match with Trump.
Someone with a semblence of political skill could very easily portray it as such. The are terrified to offend Trump, or some such.
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
A chance of a majority. On 23%. If you say so.
On the figures given above, Electoral Calculus predicts:
Con 168 Lab 152 Brexit 175 Lib Dem 93 SNP 41 Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
That SNP number looks very low.
To be clear, I think the figures are pretty meaningless. I expect in practice the seat counts of both Labour and the Conservatives would be lower.
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
A chance of a majority. On 23%. If you say so.
On the figures given above, Electoral Calculus predicts:
Con 168 Lab 152 Brexit 175 Lib Dem 93 SNP 41 Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
That SNP number looks very low.
To be clear, I think the figures are pretty meaningless. I expect in practice the seat counts of both Labour and the Conservatives would be lower.
I disagree. Both parties would end up polling above 30% were a GE to be called.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
Trouble is that would reinforce complaints about Corbyn's kneejerk anti-Americanism.
As I say, a rare occasion to speak on behalf of the majority.
Looking at the radar, there could be some interesting decisions to be made at Old Trafford. It's not inconceivable that the game gets reduced substantially in overs and the game not being completed today, which would seem a bit farcical.
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
A chance of a majority. On 23%. If you say so.
On the figures given above, Electoral Calculus predicts:
Con 168 Lab 152 Brexit 175 Lib Dem 93 SNP 41 Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
That SNP number looks very low.
To be clear, I think the figures are pretty meaningless. I expect in practice the seat counts of both Labour and the Conservatives would be lower.
I disagree. Both parties would end up polling above 30% were a GE to be called.
I'm far from convinced you're right. There is abundant polling evidence that Brexit is felt more keenly by most voters than party loyalties. Given that, if the two main parties have failed those who previously voted for them, they might well find themselves seeing a stampede for the exits.
But in any case I was referring to an actual outcome at the poll figures envisaged.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
That would mean implying that Theresa May has done a good job at Brexit.
I think there is a bit more ammunition there than that. It's none of Trump's business is a start. Then there are the relentless attacks on the UK's ambassador and Trump's public angling to get him replaced. It would take a distinct lack of political skill to fail to make hay. That is probably more the problem.
As you note - anyone with a semblance of political skill. Which Corbs has none of. If you think he would be able to pivot from "what exactly is it that Trump says that you disagree with?" you are smoking the same thing as @TheJezziah.
NB The Brexit party supporters don't disappear just because Brexit has been delivered. This seems to be the hope of the Conservatives but there's no evidence of it.
This polling should terrify the Labour party too. They are expected to get absolutely no benefit from Brexit being seen in the rear view mirror. They can only hope that's incorrect in practice.
I am firmly of the belief that for Labour under Corbyn to have a good chance of winning the next general election it has to come BEFORE any Brexit is delivered.
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
That would mean implying that Theresa May has done a good job at Brexit.
I think there is a bit more ammunition there than that. It's none of Trump's business is a start. Then there are the relentless attacks on the UK's ambassador and Trump's public angling to get him replaced. It would take a distinct lack of political skill to fail to make hay. That is probably more the problem.
Why are the Tory’s so reluctant to tell trump to get lost it’s degrading to watch a country behave so pathetically when it’s PM and it’s ambassador are so publically insulted.
'Scenario 2: Imagine that a General Election is held later this year after Brexit has been delivered.'
That 'after Brexit has been delivered' is massively problematic. Nigel will scream betrayal no matter what Boris serves up and probably all of TBP and many Tories will take Nigel's side. Boris is stuffed unless he kisses Nigel's spurs and begs for his patronage.
If Johnson can do it then sure Farage & the Brexit Party will scream "betrayal" until they are blue in the face. But a lot of Leave voters (and Remain ones indeed) will breathe a sigh of relief and get on with their lives, and the numerous other bigger concerns from the NHS to the environment, and from schools to the economy. Brexit has become totemic, but it remains the case that it's pretty esoteric for most people.
Johnson's case is, in many ways, very simple if (huge if) he gets out on May's deal modified to provide the tiniest fig-leaf of modesty. "You voted to leave, and I made sure we left". The hardcore Brexiteers' case is complex, "this deal wasn't the best, and let me take you through 137 reasons why..." If you're explaining your losing in politics, and the world and news agenda moves on.
In a sense, the Brexit Party risks being a victim of its own success. The European Elections, subsequent polling, and doorstep conversations will, I suspect, have persuaded quite a lot of May's opponents that the best option is to give the new PM his deal and his moment, because the idea of going into an election on the maybe of a deal is terrifying.
HYUFD keeps telling us that Bozo will call a GE asap and win an overall majority.
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
No, I am saying that without a GE by October there will be no Brexit as the current Commons will always vote against the Withdrawal Agreement and for extension or revoke over No Deal.
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
A chance of a majority. On 23%. If you say so.
On the figures given above, Electoral Calculus predicts:
Con 168 Lab 152 Brexit 175 Lib Dem 93 SNP 41 Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
That SNP number looks very low.
To be clear, I think the figures are pretty meaningless. I expect in practice the seat counts of both Labour and the Conservatives would be lower.
I disagree. Both parties would end up polling above 30% were a GE to be called.
I'm far from convinced you're right. There is abundant polling evidence that Brexit is felt more keenly by most voters than party loyalties. Given that, if the two main parties have failed those who previously voted for them, they might well find themselves seeing a stampede for the exits.
But in any case I was referring to an actual outcome at the poll figures envisaged.
The polls are already showing signs of slippage in LD and BXT party support with the former at 15% /16% and the latter below 20%. Most now have the main parties in the range of 24% - 28%. Labour's policy shift re-the Referendum might well see them back above 30% soon. Yougov differs somewhat.
Someone with a semblence of political skill could very easily portray it as such. The are terrified to offend Trump, or some such.
Probably, but to be honest it's thin gruel and I really don't think it will have much resonance. Everyone knows Trump is a jerk. The PM, the Foreign Sec and various other ministers and Tory MPs have said as much as they should say.
NB The Brexit party supporters don't disappear just because Brexit has been delivered. This seems to be the hope of the Conservatives but there's no evidence of it.
This polling should terrify the Labour party too. They are expected to get absolutely no benefit from Brexit being seen in the rear view mirror. They can only hope that's incorrect in practice.
I am firmly of the belief that for Labour under Corbyn to have a good chance of winning the next general election it has to come BEFORE any Brexit is delivered.
I'm not sure quite how resonant the Epstein story is in the US (seems pretty smelly from here), but might Trump doubling down on Darroch be a handy distraction? It's a ploy that he's been accused of/credited with before.
I'm not sure quite how resonant the Epstein story is in the US (seems pretty smelly from here), but might Trump doubling down on Darroch be a handy distraction? It's a ploy that he's been accused of/credited with before.
The Darroch story isn't getting much coverage on the US media
In the face of supine Tory silence over the repeated insults Donald Trump is hurling at the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has a genuine and very rare opportunity to speak for the majority of British people and tell him to piss off. It's the most basic politics 101. Can Corbyn manage it?
That would mean implying that Theresa May has done a good job at Brexit.
I think there is a bit more ammunition there than that. It's none of Trump's business is a start. Then there are the relentless attacks on the UK's ambassador and Trump's public angling to get him replaced. It would take a distinct lack of political skill to fail to make hay. That is probably more the problem.
Why are the Tory’s so reluctant to tell trump to get lost it’s degrading to watch a country behave so pathetically when it’s PM and it’s ambassador are so publically insulted.
Cos no one insults Trump? Incidentally, think the insults are thoroughly deserved in both directions.
Comments
LOL.
He was answering a hypothetical - its someone else trying to spin "Russians"
I am puzzled how this assertion can be backed up by the above polling.
The key at the next general election is if Boris' Brexit Deal or No Deal commitment wins back enough Brexit Party voters behind the Tories to win without enough Remainers uniting behind Labour or the LDs under FPTP for them to win
https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/47484049
Making any such polling as good as worthless.
Remainers won't believe Jezza is really interested in calling off Brexit and will stick with Lib-Dem and Green while they've now pretty much burned their bridges with Labour Leavers...
So as the polling shows esp Comres Boris has a chance of a majority with an early autumn general election and thus there is a chance of Brexit, without a general election there will likely be no Brexit.
An election of Boris Brexit Deal or No Deal or EUref2 with Corbyn and the LDs is a fair choice
The real question is just how many days will Mr Johnson stay in office?
I think Lab's line of a Lab fluffy lovely Brexit vs a Tory nasty baby-eating Brexit will backfire although tbf they are on a hiding to nothing.
A nice little slogan, aspiration never hurt, but it's all reliant on other parties doing things totally against their interest. Brexit will take decades to play out however orderly. All the trade negotiations, legislation for setting up our new regulatory environment, immigration rules, customs and tariffs, etc.
But the idea that somehow, the promised land for Tories is just round the corner "once Brexit has been delivered" is just another comfort blanket that doesn't survive scrutiny. The Tories are likely to have to face the next General Election with Brexit either in chaos or still log-jammed and us inside the EU. Perhaps a better way of thinking about it would be who would vote Tory above the 9% who did in the Euro elections. Those who like their MP perhaps. Those who don't see it as a free hit. Those who like Corbyn even less. Not sure they will get you nearer 20% than 9% bluntly.
Are the Tories really ready to fight on that basis? The LIb Dems know what happens when you fight a general election with great incumbents but an 8% poll rating. The Tories can go down as well as up....
This polling should terrify the Labour party too. They are expected to get absolutely no benefit from Brexit being seen in the rear view mirror. They can only hope that's incorrect in practice.
It proposes to withhold payments to the EU, slash overseas aid and scrap HS2 high-speed rail in order to deliver £200 billion of investment to regions outside London, improve transport links and broadband across the country and scrap business rates for new firms outside the capital. It is casting itself, as Freddie Sayers noted, “as the party of the regions, pitted against an over-dominant capital”.
https://unherd.com/2019/07/the-battle-for-brexit-britain/
https://twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/1148567868449153025
https://twitter.com/jeremy_hunt/status/1148559213196693505?s=21
With the Bozo old Etonian answer "A soggy one".
Con 168
Lab 152
Brexit 175
Lib Dem 93
SNP 41
Green 1
There would be a Leave majority but it would not be Boris Johnson in Number 10.
It just seems unlikely, I guess it's because Labour is dooing so badly?
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1148578584547811328
Fascinating poll - once people see they can dump Boris, Corbyn, Brexit and Farage at the same time they'll rush at the chance. LD majority?
That 'after Brexit has been delivered' is massively problematic. Nigel will scream betrayal no matter what Boris serves up and probably all of TBP and many Tories will take Nigel's side. Boris is stuffed unless he kisses Nigel's spurs and begs for his patronage.
It's worth bearing in mind, however, that proroguing parliament is not only a nuclear option, it's also a nuclear option aimed at No Deal: there are lots of regulations which would need to be passed, including very basic ones on things like regulations for agriculture (necessary if we're going to sell ANY food products to the EU). So even if Grieve's remaining amendments don't rule out proroguing parliament, they probably would have the effect in practice of allowing parliament to rule out a 31st October No Deal (subject to EU consent on an extension, or perhaps in the extreme by revocation of Article 50, although that's unclear).
Could we not get some top Hollywood CGI people to reanimate Fred Trump and have him visit Donald to say "I'm proud of you son". Would save a lot of trouble.
Edit: I see @Topping got there first!
Taylor, and Williamson, are culpable. Even very good bowling should yield 3 singles during the middle overs and a few boundaries here and there. New Zealand are the worst semi-finalists for a long and lucky that their match against India was washed out. India would be pleased though as that meant Pakistan could not qualify.
You can assume that some of those putative voters are going to be disappointed. It will be too much or too little Brexit for some of them. And then there's the likely disappointment when the sunlit uplands post-Brexit are slow to appear.
That 28% looks to me like an upper limit.
But in any case I was referring to an actual outcome at the poll figures envisaged.
I think they know this too.
Johnson's case is, in many ways, very simple if (huge if) he gets out on May's deal modified to provide the tiniest fig-leaf of modesty. "You voted to leave, and I made sure we left". The hardcore Brexiteers' case is complex, "this deal wasn't the best, and let me take you through 137 reasons why..." If you're explaining your losing in politics, and the world and news agenda moves on.
In a sense, the Brexit Party risks being a victim of its own success. The European Elections, subsequent polling, and doorstep conversations will, I suspect, have persuaded quite a lot of May's opponents that the best option is to give the new PM his deal and his moment, because the idea of going into an election on the maybe of a deal is terrifying.
Yougov differs somewhat.
https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1148529754351517702
Who invited Trump for a State visit to the UK ?
https://twitter.com/KentishExpress/status/1148588758566129665