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You mean you think the plan is to ask the EU for extension to allow a general election so he can campaign for a No Deal?kle4 said:
The plan is a GE. Hence obsession with jom saving them. They know parliament wont no deal and renegotiation is very unlikely, since GEs, with an extension permissible only to deal with that.Chris said:
How does he leave by 31 October in any circumstances?rottenborough said:
Earlier this year we were told repeatedly that even if the Commons passed the withdrawal agreement, it would need something like two months of concentrated work to pass the necessary legislation.
We were also told that even if we left with No Deal, legislation would be required which would take almost as long to pass. You can expedite legislation if it's not contentious, but No Deal legislation is about as contentious as can be. There isn't a majority for it now in the Commons. Supposing Johnson won an election first on a No Deal platform - which I doubt he could, and which would cut down the available time even further - even then there is the House of Lords to deal with.
So Johnson is planning to ditch the 31 October nonsense immediately he's elected leader?0 -
Had to laugh when the BBC threatened to close BBC Scotland if they didn’t get their way. That is funny on so many levels, not least all the gammons in Englandshire fuming at them having to pay through the nose to finance BBC Scotchland (that is so dire that not even Scots can be bothered watching it; the viewing figures are diabolical.)another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
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Difference is that 2017 was patently unnecessary. Parliament hadn't rejected any of May's votes then.Foxy said:I reckon the public do not like unnecessary elections, punishing those that call one, and that was a major factor in May's fiasco of 2017.
An election now seems to be necessary. Parliament is rejecting everything and anything.
It may not work but the circumstances are very different.0 -
Hark, do I hear Hubris calling?TheJezziah said:Johnson would be a fitting finale to the terrible trio...
David Cameron, Theresa May and Boris Johnson. Labour are going to dine out on their reign for decades...
If the Tories survive.0 -
I criticise it because people are hysterical about it and inadvertently suggest we must only ever do what other nations want, which is not always going to be a good ideaCyclefree said:
Judging by his speech yesterday and what I have seen of his recent campaign, he has learnt more in his time as a politician than Boris or other candidates ever will.Casino_Royale said:
Possibly, he has talent but still has a lot to learn.SouthamObserver said:
The Stewart bet should be next but one Tory leader. He is setting himself up perfectly for that as the "Told You So" candidate.Casino_Royale said:I've laid off most of my Rory Stewart off the back of the ComRes poll at about 24/1.
I think it will have a dramatic effect on Tory MPs, and his odds had already shortened anyway due to Betfair's overreaction to his big speech yesterday.
I was criticised on here the other day when I made the same point. We hugely overstate our importance as a nation and underestimate the dismay and disbelief with which we are being viewed.AlastairMeeks said:The view from Singapore:
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1138697101234397184?s=211 -
Scottish nationalists have gotten all wet between the legs since the Euros but the idea that an independent Scotland will be seriously entertained by floating voters if Brexit turns out to be a crass failure is for the birds.StuartDickson said:
So, forced to choose between saving the Conservative Party and saving the Union, Tories have decided to save the Conservative Party. Some Unionists they turned out to be!kle4 said:
Enough of them cared to date to not go through with no deal. But they've now given in to save the tory party .StuartDickson said:
I’m astonished that anyone ever really thought that Boris and co did care about the Union. The “and Unionist” bit of the name Conservative and Unionist Party is simply a bit of inconvenient historical baggage for Boris and co.kle4 said:
Yes, no dealers are abandoning Scotland. Boris and co really dont care about the UK at all.StuartDickson said:
There is not a single seat in Scotland where the SNP is not in either first or second place. If there is mass No No Deal tactical voting, there is only going to be one beneficiary north of the border.eek said:
When was that conducted.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
ess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
Equally in 2017 May had a 25% lead as the campaign began look where that got here.
And that's before Boris on a No Deal platform sees organised No No Deal tactical voting on a level never seen before (the internet makes things possibly in ways that were never previously the case)..
Remember, if Yes had won the first independence referendum in 2014 there would not now be 59 Scottish MPs blocking Brexit from happening. They’ve only got themselves to blame for the big lies which formed the basis for the entire Better Together campaign.
As I have always asserted, it is in fact the Labour Party that is the bulwark of the Union, not the Tories (as Ruthie so loves to claim). Wendy Alexander, Jim Murphy, Gordon Brown and fellow dimwits did not just destroy their own party, they removed the last glue holding the Union together.0 -
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/11387092294628597760 -
Because today's Conservatives don't believe in markets? Or because they are in hock to newspapers which just coincidentally own rival broadcasters?another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
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Well if it is unicorns for all we need to plan what we want to do with our personal unicorn.Freggles said:
r/nocontextkle4kle4 said:
Mine will be named Clancy, I look forward to riding him.malcolmg said:
Dream on , unicorns for allHYUFD said:
If Boris wins a majority in a snap election by October on this scale he can do what he likesrottenborough said:
Probably be true, but I am deeply sceptical of this poll.MarqueeMark said:
Remarkable that Boris doesn't just restrict the Brexit Party - he destroys it.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
All other candidates have it remaining as a significant force in UK politics. Which is why Boris will win.
Plus even if true it is only because they believe Boris will WTO us on 31st Oct.
What happens when he doesn't? Or more likely can't, as he is not PM?0 -
Fair question.IanB2 said:FINANCIAL TIMES: "Anyone watching the contest to become British prime minister has to wonder about the cognitive skills of many Conservative candidates. Put simply: are these people stupid?"
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Whenever politicians are referred to as clever, they tend not to be particularly clever. Or good politicians.Chris said:I'm suspicious of the "He appears stupid but is secretly very clever" line at the best of times, but the more Johnson boxes himself in with this "must leave in October" stuff - seemingly quite unnecessarily so far as the leadership contest goes - the more I think that secretly he's just as stupid as he appears on the surface.
Competent, sane, listens and communicates well would be my template for a good politician. Simply add some charisma for the leader. Clever not required.0 -
I know both Boris and Rory. Rory is a good man. Boris is not.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes) Indeed, if that poll is anything to go by, there wouldn't be much of a Conservative Party left to lead for Rory Stewart. Him, Grieve and Letwin? Ha ha ha.
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.3 -
What promises? The government withdrew funding for free licences and told the BBC to decide whether to fund them from its budget. Since the cost is about 20% of the entire BBC budget they decided they couldn't afford to, but will retain some on a means-tested basis.another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?0 -
I really wish you wouldn't use that analogy.AlastairMeeks said:So tomorrow presumably Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt, Dominic Raab and Sajid Javid clear the hurdle. Do we think anyone else is going to get a sympathy shag?
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Well it looks as if you will have to join TBP as no deal will not happen, even with BorisViceroy_of_Orange said:
I am in my mid-twenties, so cannot claim to have been a life-long Conservative voter, that is true. However my family, including grandparents in their 80s, have all voted Conservative since they started voting, right up until David Cameron and George Osborne.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You still are a UKIPPER and any idea you are a conservative is for the birdsViceroy_of_Orange said:
Very true.RochdalePioneers said:
A foppish Hugh Grant charm. A wicked sense of humour and twinkly eyes. The ability to transcend party politics with a brand - BORIS - that can win anywhere with support across the spectrum. An honest dishonesty - he gets things wrong and tries to pretend he didn't just like millions of his compatriots.FrancisUrquhart said:What is it that everybody sees in boris? I just dont get it. Cameron i understood, boris is a total different kettle of fish.
Boris as PM faces the same impossible parliamentary maths that did for May. But Boris can nuke both Labour and Brexit with a snap election in October. Like Farage he will offer immediate Brexit, but unlike Farage will have policies outside of Brexit which I guarantee will be more everyman than people think (as they were when he won London). Counter to this will be Magic Grandpa offering to block immediate Brexit and do a lengthy not on the table renegotiation. Leavers will vote Tory, remainers will vote LibDem.
It's all there for Boris and for the Tories. Yes, they will lose the Grieve wing of the party. But so what if they win anyway.
And losing Grieve, Letwin etc is the cherry on top.
Then, for me as a Leaver/Ukipper since 2007, it'll be project complete.
We then returned in 2017. Our continued support depends on No Deal.0 -
IndeedCyclefree said:
Judging by his speech yesterday and what I have seen of his recent campaign, he has learnt more in his time as a politician than Boris or other candidates ever will.Casino_Royale said:
Possibly, he has talent but still has a lot to learn.SouthamObserver said:
The Stewart bet should be next but one Tory leader. He is setting himself up perfectly for that as the "Told You So" candidate.Casino_Royale said:I've laid off most of my Rory Stewart off the back of the ComRes poll at about 24/1.
I think it will have a dramatic effect on Tory MPs, and his odds had already shortened anyway due to Betfair's overreaction to his big speech yesterday.
I was criticised on here the other day when I made the same point. We hugely overstate our importance as a nation and underestimate the dismay and disbelief with which we are being viewed.AlastairMeeks said:The view from Singapore:
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1138697101234397184?s=210 -
I suggest a lot more mid-twenty year olds are lifelong voters for their chosen party than older folk?Viceroy_of_Orange said:
I am in my mid-twenties, so cannot claim to have been a life-long Conservative voter, that is true. However my family, including grandparents in their 80s, have all voted Conservative since they started voting, right up until David Cameron and George Osborne.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You still are a UKIPPER and any idea you are a conservative is for the birdsViceroy_of_Orange said:
Very true.RochdalePioneers said:
A foppish Hugh Grant charm. A wicked sense of humour and twinkly eyes. The ability to transcend party politics with a brand - BORIS - that can win anywhere with support across the spectrum. An honest dishonesty - he gets things wrong and tries to pretend he didn't just like millions of his compatriots.FrancisUrquhart said:What is it that everybody sees in boris? I just dont get it. Cameron i understood, boris is a total different kettle of fish.
Boris as PM faces the same impossible parliamentary maths that did for May. But Boris can nuke both Labour and Brexit with a snap election in October. Like Farage he will offer immediate Brexit, but unlike Farage will have policies outside of Brexit which I guarantee will be more everyman than people think (as they were when he won London). Counter to this will be Magic Grandpa offering to block immediate Brexit and do a lengthy not on the table renegotiation. Leavers will vote Tory, remainers will vote LibDem.
It's all there for Boris and for the Tories. Yes, they will lose the Grieve wing of the party. But so what if they win anyway.
And losing Grieve, Letwin etc is the cherry on top.
Then, for me as a Leaver/Ukipper since 2007, it'll be project complete.
We then returned in 2017. Our continued support depends on No Deal.0 -
Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.0 -
Yes and no. He will go for 31 Oct, unrealistically, parliament will stop him, he asks for a GE and says to the public he is not delaying by choice but you really to vote for him now to get it at all. And asks for an extension to allow that.Chris said:
You mean you think the plan is to ask the EU for extension to allow a general election so he can campaign for a No Deal?kle4 said:
The plan is a GE. Hence obsession with jom saving them. They know parliament wont no deal and renegotiation is very unlikely, since GEs, with an extension permissible only to deal with that.Chris said:
How does he leave by 31 October in any circumstances?rottenborough said:
Earlier this year we were told repeatedly that even if the Commons passed the withdrawal agreement, it would need something like two months of concentrated work to pass the necessary legislation.
We were also told that even if we left with No Deal, legislation would be required which would take almost as long to pass. You can expedite legislation if it's not contentious, but No Deal legislation is about as contentious as can be. There isn't a majority for it now in the Commons. Supposing Johnson won an election first on a No Deal platform - which I doubt he could, and which would cut down the available time even further - even then there is the House of Lords to deal with.
So Johnson is planning to ditch the 31 October nonsense immediately he's elected leader?0 -
Yes but under FPTP the brexit vote is far more efficient , remain is London and Scotland centricIanB2 said:
I don't think that was motivating the largest slice that voted for the LibDems, Greens, Nats and CUK?kjohnw said:
By the results of EU elections they are angry that democracy is not delivering the result of their wishes in 2016, a new PM has the right to get a mandate especially when parliament is being so obstructive to delivering brexitFoxy said:I reckon the public do not like unnecessary elections, punishing those that call one, and that was a major factor in May's fiasco of 2017.
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Funny you should use that word - weird.Casino_Royale said:Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.0 -
How is BBC Scotland different to ordinary BBC beyond local news and sport programs ?StuartDickson said:
Had to laugh when the BBC threatened to close BBC Scotland if they didn’t get their way. That is funny on so many levels, not least all the gammons in Englandshire fuming at them having to pay through the nose to finance BBC Scotchland (that is so dire that not even Scots can be bothered watching it; the viewing figures are diabolical.)another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
I can't imagine the Alba channel gets many viewers.-1 -
Labour MPs are however jumping on the bandwagon and cynically stirring the discontentQuincel said:
What promises? The government withdrew funding for free licences and told the BBC to decide whether to fund them from its budget. Since the cost is about 20% of the entire BBC budget they decided they couldn't afford to, but will retain some on a means-tested basis.another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?0 -
Cut taxes, liberate trade and become the Singapore of Europe. Decent start for what happens the day after.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/11387092294628597760 -
I did however tell you that MPs would fix it so she stays in the contest as long as possible, and so they are.Casino_Royale said:Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.0 -
Is that the sort of post that harvests the most likes from your fellow Nits on Twitter?StuartDickson said:
Had to laugh when the BBC threatened to close BBC Scotland if they didn’t get their way. That is funny on so many levels, not least all the gammons in Englandshire fuming at them having to pay through the nose to finance BBC Scotchland (that is so dire that not even Scots can be bothered watching it; the viewing figures are diabolical.)another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?0 -
Brexit ain’t gonna happen. You read it here first.Casino_Royale said:
Scottish nationalists have gotten all wet between the legs since the Euros but the idea that an independent Scotland will be seriously entertained by floating voters if Brexit turns out to be a crass failure is for the birds.StuartDickson said:
So, forced to choose between saving the Conservative Party and saving the Union, Tories have decided to save the Conservative Party. Some Unionists they turned out to be!kle4 said:
Enough of them cared to date to not go through with no deal. But they've now given in to save the tory party .StuartDickson said:
I’m astonished that anyone ever really thought that Boris and co did care about the Union. The “and Unionist” bit of the name Conservative and Unionist Party is simply a bit of inconvenient historical baggage for Boris and co.kle4 said:
Yes, no dealers are abandoning Scotland. Boris and co really dont care about the UK at all.StuartDickson said:
There is not a single seat in Scotland where the SNP is not in either first or second place. If there is mass No No Deal tactical voting, there is only going to be one beneficiary north of the border.eek said:
When was that conducted.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
ess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
Equally in 2017 May had a 25% lead as the campaign began look where that got here.
And that's before Boris on a No Deal platform sees organised No No Deal tactical voting on a level never seen before (the internet makes things possibly in ways that were never previously the case)..
Remember, if Yes had won the first independence referendum in 2014 there would not now be 59 Scottish MPs blocking Brexit from happening. They’ve only got themselves to blame for the big lies which formed the basis for the entire Better Together campaign.
As I have always asserted, it is in fact the Labour Party that is the bulwark of the Union, not the Tories (as Ruthie so loves to claim). Wendy Alexander, Jim Murphy, Gordon Brown and fellow dimwits did not just destroy their own party, they removed the last glue holding the Union together.0 -
Leaddom came through to the final run off last time including the highest amount of undeclared backers. None of the others did.Casino_Royale said:Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.0 -
I wouldn't stake your house on Johnson leaving without a deal if I were you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well it looks as if you will have to join TBP as no deal will not happen, even with BorisViceroy_of_Orange said:
I am in my mid-twenties, so cannot claim to have been a life-long Conservative voter, that is true. However my family, including grandparents in their 80s, have all voted Conservative since they started voting, right up until David Cameron and George Osborne.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You still are a UKIPPER and any idea you are a conservative is for the birdsViceroy_of_Orange said:
Very true.RochdalePioneers said:
A foppish Hugh Grant charm. A wicked sense of humour and twinkly eyes. The ability to transcend party politics with a brand - BORIS - that can win anywhere with support across the spectrum. An honest dishonesty - he gets things wrong and tries to pretend he didn't just like millions of his compatriots.FrancisUrquhart said:What is it that everybody sees in boris? I just dont get it. Cameron i understood, boris is a total different kettle of fish.
Boris as PM faces the same impossible parliamentary maths that did for May. But Boris can nuke both Labour and Brexit with a snap election in October. Like Farage he will offer immediate Brexit, but unlike Farage will have policies outside of Brexit which I guarantee will be more everyman than people think (as they were when he won London). Counter to this will be Magic Grandpa offering to block immediate Brexit and do a lengthy not on the table renegotiation. Leavers will vote Tory, remainers will vote LibDem.
It's all there for Boris and for the Tories. Yes, they will lose the Grieve wing of the party. But so what if they win anyway.
And losing Grieve, Letwin etc is the cherry on top.
Then, for me as a Leaver/Ukipper since 2007, it'll be project complete.
We then returned in 2017. Our continued support depends on No Deal.0 -
The Brexit vote is concentrated mostly in seats that the Tories hold already, or in seats they will never winkjohnw said:
Yes but under FPTP the brexit vote is far more efficient , remain is London and Scotland centricIanB2 said:
I don't think that was motivating the largest slice that voted for the LibDems, Greens, Nats and CUK?kjohnw said:
By the results of EU elections they are angry that democracy is not delivering the result of their wishes in 2016, a new PM has the right to get a mandate especially when parliament is being so obstructive to delivering brexitFoxy said:I reckon the public do not like unnecessary elections, punishing those that call one, and that was a major factor in May's fiasco of 2017.
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To be fair, most of us, including me, changed our minds and our positions when the facts changed.MarqueeMark said:
pb.com's reputation is about to get a very bloody nose, having gone deep on the "lay Boris the favourite" mantra.HYUFD said:
Rory is the Tory Party saviour according to PB Remainers, they don't care about the Brexit Party oiks who like BorisWulfrun_Phil said:Surely the thread header should have been the ComRes poll that emerged last night, rather than just a bland melange of today's headlines?
https://order-order.com/2019/06/12/rory-stewart-will-destroy-conservative-party/
There were no 50-1 winners in this field.0 -
So how much do we think Boris will under/over perform his public declarations of support in the first round?0
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OK. My point was that leaving on 31 October wasn't possible. I think you're agreeing.kle4 said:
Yes and no. He will go for 31 Oct, unrealistically, parliament will stop him, he asks for a GE and says to the public he is not delaying by choice but you really to vote for him now to get it at all. And asks for an extension to allow that.Chris said:
You mean you think the plan is to ask the EU for extension to allow a general election so he can campaign for a No Deal?kle4 said:
The plan is a GE. Hence obsession with jom saving them. They know parliament wont no deal and renegotiation is very unlikely, since GEs, with an extension permissible only to deal with that.Chris said:
How does he leave by 31 October in any circumstances?rottenborough said:
Earlier this year we were told repeatedly that even if the Commons passed the withdrawal agreement, it would need something like two months of concentrated work to pass the necessary legislation.
We were also told that even if we left with No Deal, legislation would be required which would take almost as long to pass. You can expedite legislation if it's not contentious, but No Deal legislation is about as contentious as can be. There isn't a majority for it now in the Commons. Supposing Johnson won an election first on a No Deal platform - which I doubt he could, and which would cut down the available time even further - even then there is the House of Lords to deal with.
So Johnson is planning to ditch the 31 October nonsense immediately he's elected leader?0 -
Indeed , Boris Johnson = the end of Jeremy Corbyn and possibly survival of the Labour partyCharles said:
Hark, do I hear Hubris calling?TheJezziah said:Johnson would be a fitting finale to the terrible trio...
David Cameron, Theresa May and Boris Johnson. Labour are going to dine out on their reign for decades...
If the Tories survive.
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You can’t liberate trade by creating new trade barriers. It’s like boarding up your windows to let in more light.Philip_Thompson said:
Cut taxes, liberate trade and become the Singapore of Europe. Decent start for what happens the day after.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/11387092294628597760 -
Why would middle class Scots vote for it after the experiences of the last few years over Brexit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Morning Malc - You really have to wonder just how blinkered brexiteers are to the realitymalcolmg said:
Dream on , unicorns for allHYUFD said:
If Boris wins a majority in a snap election by October on this scale he can do what he likesrottenborough said:
Probably be true, but I am deeply sceptical of this poll.MarqueeMark said:
Remarkable that Boris doesn't just restrict the Brexit Party - he destroys it.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
All other candidates have it remaining as a significant force in UK politics. Which is why Boris will win.
Plus even if true it is only because they believe Boris will WTO us on 31st Oct.
What happens when he doesn't? Or more likely can't, as he is not PM?
Was interested to hear Nicola admit yesterday that independence could require a hard border from Carlisle to Berwick having an adverse effect on £48 billion of Scots exports to the rest of the UK against only £11.5 billion exports to the EU0 -
1. Most UK trade is internal/domestic.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
2. Of UK external trade, an increasing majority is non-EU.
3. This isn't about trade. It's about independence + democracy.
Singapore left the world's largest Empire in history, rejected integration into Malaya and flourished. And it was basically a glorified imperial military base with little to no resources, with many internal divisions on racial/ethnic lines.
So I do see a difference - we're in an even better position than Singapore was.
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No doubt you do.Casino_Royale said:
He has to take his own party with him, you know, lead them, and on that measure he's an abject failure.Cyclefree said:
Judging by his speech yesterday and what I have seen of his recent campaign, he has learnt more in his time as a politician than Boris or other candidates ever will.Casino_Royale said:
Possibly, he has talent but still has a lot to learn.SouthamObserver said:
The Stewart bet should be next but one Tory leader. He is setting himself up perfectly for that as the "Told You So" candidate.Casino_Royale said:I've laid off most of my Rory Stewart off the back of the ComRes poll at about 24/1.
I think it will have a dramatic effect on Tory MPs, and his odds had already shortened anyway due to Betfair's overreaction to his big speech yesterday.
I was criticised on here the other day when I made the same point. We hugely overstate our importance as a nation and underestimate the dismay and disbelief with which we are being viewed.AlastairMeeks said:The view from Singapore:
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1138697101234397184?s=21
And I speak as someone who both recognises Rory's talent and thinks he's a Tory.
I know my party.
From the outside your party comes across as unhinged, stupid, ideological and utterly careless of the consequences of Brexit for those who will likely be most affected by it. They are just collateral damage for your party.
About the only good thing that can be said for what is happening to your party is that it is giving the rest of us a foretaste of what it will be like to be governed by an equally unhinged, stupid, ideological and careless of the consequences party when Corbyn’s Labour comes to power, an event which your party’s current behaviour is making ever more probable.1 -
That's my point.StuartDickson said:
Brexit ain’t gonna happen. You read it here first.Casino_Royale said:
Scottish nationalists have gotten all wet between the legs since the Euros but the idea that an independent Scotland will be seriously entertained by floating voters if Brexit turns out to be a crass failure is for the birds.StuartDickson said:
So, forced to choose between saving the Conservative Party and saving the Union, Tories have decided to save the Conservative Party. Some Unionists they turned out to be!kle4 said:
Enough of them cared to date to not go through with no deal. But they've now given in to save the tory party .StuartDickson said:
I’m astonished that anyone ever really thought that Boris and co did care about the Union. The “and Unionist” bit of the name Conservative and Unionist Party is simply a bit of inconvenient historical baggage for Boris and co.kle4 said:
Yes, no dealers are abandoning Scotland. Boris and co really dont care about the UK at all.StuartDickson said:
There is not a single seat in Scotland where the SNP is not in either first or second place. If there is mass No No Deal tactical voting, there is only going to be one beneficiary north of the border.eek said:
When was that conducted.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
ess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
Equally in 2017 May had a 25% lead as the campaign began look where that got here.
And that's before Boris on a No Deal platform sees organised No No Deal tactical voting on a level never seen before (the internet makes things possibly in ways that were never previously the case)..
aign.
As I have always asserted, it is in fact the Labour Party that is the bulwark of the Union, not the Tories (as Ruthie so loves to claim). Wendy Alexander, Jim Murphy, Gordon Brown and fellow dimwits did not just destroy their own party, they removed the last glue holding the Union together.0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
Leaddom came through to the final run off last time including the highest amount of undeclared backers. None of the others did.Casino_Royale said:Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.
That was then.Philip_Thompson said:
Leaddom came through to the final run off last time including the highest amount of undeclared backers. None of the others did.Casino_Royale said:Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.0 -
Yes the seats required to win a general election which is why Boris will defeat labour In a General ElectionIanB2 said:
The Brexit vote is concentrated mostly in seats that the Tories hold already, or in seats they will never winkjohnw said:
Yes but under FPTP the brexit vote is far more efficient , remain is London and Scotland centricIanB2 said:
I don't think that was motivating the largest slice that voted for the LibDems, Greens, Nats and CUK?kjohnw said:
By the results of EU elections they are angry that democracy is not delivering the result of their wishes in 2016, a new PM has the right to get a mandate especially when parliament is being so obstructive to delivering brexitFoxy said:I reckon the public do not like unnecessary elections, punishing those that call one, and that was a major factor in May's fiasco of 2017.
0 -
Yes, I think that must be it.kle4 said:
Yes and no. He will go for 31 Oct, unrealistically, parliament will stop him, he asks for a GE and says to the public he is not delaying by choice but you really to vote for him now to get it at all. And asks for an extension to allow that.
A GE is called and Boris repeatedly says I can only deliver if you give me a majority.
He either gets a majority, or no.
In the former case, he can keep his promise. In the latter case, it is no longer his problem (it is PM Corbyn. leading the Remainer Alliance).0 -
I wouldnt stake anything on Boris or anyone elseMexicanpete said:
I wouldn't stake your house on Johnson leaving without a deal if I were you.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well it looks as if you will have to join TBP as no deal will not happen, even with BorisViceroy_of_Orange said:
I am in my mid-twenties, so cannot claim to have been a life-long Conservative voter, that is true. However my family, including grandparents in their 80s, have all voted Conservative since they started voting, right up until David Cameron and George Osborne.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You still are a UKIPPER and any idea you are a conservative is for the birdsViceroy_of_Orange said:
Very true.RochdalePioneers said:
A foppish Hugh Grant charm. A wicked sense of humour and twinkly eyes. The ability to transcend party politics with a brand - BORIS - that can win anywhere with support across the spectrum. An honest dishonesty - he gets things wrong and tries to pretend he didn't just like millions of his compatriots.FrancisUrquhart said:What is it that everybody sees in boris? I just dont get it. Cameron i understood, boris is a total different kettle of fish.
Boris as PM faces the same impossible parliamentary maths that did for May. But Boris can nuke both Labour and Brexit with a snap election in October. Like Farage he will offer immediate Brexit, but unlike Farage will have policies outside of Brexit which I guarantee will be more everyman than people think (as they were when he won London). Counter to this will be Magic Grandpa offering to block immediate Brexit and do a lengthy not on the table renegotiation. Leavers will vote Tory, remainers will vote LibDem.
It's all there for Boris and for the Tories. Yes, they will lose the Grieve wing of the party. But so what if they win anyway.
And losing Grieve, Letwin etc is the cherry on top.
Then, for me as a Leaver/Ukipper since 2007, it'll be project complete.
We then returned in 2017. Our continued support depends on No Deal.0 -
I don't often agree with you but yes. The PB narrative seems to be that Rory is great but the evidence is he will be an unmitigated disaster. I keep saying a Rory Tory party would get destroyed at an election like the 93 Canadian Conservatives and I've not seen anyone show any evidence otherwise.HYUFD said:
Rory is the Tory Party saviour according to PB Remainers, they don't care about the Brexit Party oiks who like BorisWulfrun_Phil said:Surely the thread header should have been the ComRes poll that emerged last night, rather than just a bland melange of today's headlines?
https://order-order.com/2019/06/12/rory-stewart-will-destroy-conservative-party/
Avid remainers (Like Mr Meeks here) won't vote for the Tory Party whether under Rory or not.
Avid Leavers won't vote for Rory either.
Sometimes the centre is where most people are. But sometimes it is where you just get destroyed on two flanks and that is what will happen here. The party needs to choose a flank and go with it.1 -
Are you so certain of that Mr G ? , I think the likelihood of no deal is very high almost probableBig_G_NorthWales said:
Well it looks as if you will have to join TBP as no deal will not happen, even with BorisViceroy_of_Orange said:
I am in my mid-twenties, so cannot claim to have been a life-long Conservative voter, that is true. However my family, including grandparents in their 80s, have all voted Conservative since they started voting, right up until David Cameron and George Osborne.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You still are a UKIPPER and any idea you are a conservative is for the birdsViceroy_of_Orange said:
Very true.RochdalePioneers said:
A foppish Hugh Grant charm. A wicked sense of humour and twinkly eyes. The ability to transcend party politics with a brand - BORIS - that can win anywhere with support across the spectrum. An honest dishonesty - he gets things wrong and tries to pretend he didn't just like millions of his compatriots.FrancisUrquhart said:What is it that everybody sees in boris? I just dont get it. Cameron i understood, boris is a total different kettle of fish.
Boris as PM faces the same impossible parliamentary maths that did for May. But Boris can nuke both Labour and Brexit with a snap election in October. Like Farage he will offer immediate Brexit, but unlike Farage will have policies outside of Brexit which I guarantee will be more everyman than people think (as they were when he won London). Counter to this will be Magic Grandpa offering to block immediate Brexit and do a lengthy not on the table renegotiation. Leavers will vote Tory, remainers will vote LibDem.
It's all there for Boris and for the Tories. Yes, they will lose the Grieve wing of the party. But so what if they win anyway.
And losing Grieve, Letwin etc is the cherry on top.
Then, for me as a Leaver/Ukipper since 2007, it'll be project complete.
We then returned in 2017. Our continued support depends on No Deal.0 -
Mr Dancer, remember that most political obsessives use polls like the drunk uses the lamppost: for support rather than illumination.Morris_Dancer said:*raises an eyebrow at people taking the polling seriously*
The Johnson fans see something that marches with their preconceptions and desires; therefore it must be precise, predictive, and prevailing.
Despite all three traits being explicitly what polls are not; hypothetical polls doubly so.0 -
I don't think it will happen now. But there's a material difference between her and the other nobodies.Casino_Royale said:Philip_Thompson said:
Leaddom came through to the final run off last time including the highest amount of undeclared backers. None of the others did.Casino_Royale said:Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.
That was then.Philip_Thompson said:
Leaddom came through to the final run off last time including the highest amount of undeclared backers. None of the others did.Casino_Royale said:Betfair: Hancock at 170, McVey at 300 and Harper at 250.
Andrea Leadsom at... 9.2.
So so weird.0 -
It’s a qualitatively different thing to Brexit, and the element of the SNP that would have tried to drive independence in a similar direction has been much diminished since 2014.Casino_Royale said:
Why would middle class Scots vote for it after the experiences of the last few years over Brexit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Morning Malc - You really have to wonder just how blinkered brexiteers are to the realitymalcolmg said:
Dream on , unicorns for allHYUFD said:
If Boris wins a majority in a snap election by October on this scale he can do what he likesrottenborough said:
Probably be true, but I am deeply sceptical of this poll.MarqueeMark said:
Remarkable that Boris doesn't just restrict the Brexit Party - he destroys it.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
All other candidates have it remaining as a significant force in UK politics. Which is why Boris will win.
Plus even if true it is only because they believe Boris will WTO us on 31st Oct.
What happens when he doesn't? Or more likely can't, as he is not PM?
Was interested to hear Nicola admit yesterday that independence could require a hard border from Carlisle to Berwick having an adverse effect on £48 billion of Scots exports to the rest of the UK against only £11.5 billion exports to the EU0 -
I doubt they willCasino_Royale said:
Why would middle class Scots vote for it after the experiences of the last few years over Brexit?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Morning Malc - You really have to wonder just how blinkered brexiteers are to the realitymalcolmg said:
Dream on , unicorns for allHYUFD said:
If Boris wins a majority in a snap election by October on this scale he can do what he likesrottenborough said:
Probably be true, but I am deeply sceptical of this poll.MarqueeMark said:
Remarkable that Boris doesn't just restrict the Brexit Party - he destroys it.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
All other candidates have it remaining as a significant force in UK politics. Which is why Boris will win.
Plus even if true it is only because they believe Boris will WTO us on 31st Oct.
What happens when he doesn't? Or more likely can't, as he is not PM?
Was interested to hear Nicola admit yesterday that independence could require a hard border from Carlisle to Berwick having an adverse effect on £48 billion of Scots exports to the rest of the UK against only £11.5 billion exports to the EU0 -
Yeah, right: Singapore’s welfare system is exactly what most Brexit voters want......Philip_Thompson said:
Cut taxes, liberate trade and become the Singapore of Europe. Decent start for what happens the day after.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
Good luck with that on the campaign trail.0 -
You are confusing the organisation with the brand new tv channel (launched 24 February 2019) of the same name. From wiki:another_richard said:
How is BBC Scotland different to ordinary BBC beyond local news and sport programs ?StuartDickson said:
Had to laugh when the BBC threatened to close BBC Scotland if they didn’t get their way. That is funny on so many levels, not least all the gammons in Englandshire fuming at them having to pay through the nose to finance BBC Scotchland (that is so dire that not even Scots can be bothered watching it; the viewing figures are diabolical.)another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
I can't imagine the Alba channel gets many viewers.
“BBC Scotland is a Scottish English-language television station under the BBC Scotland division of the BBC. It airs a nightly lineup of entirely Scottish programming. During daytime broadcast hours, the channel broadcasts a simulcast of BBC Two, but may opt out for news and sports events outside of its formal broadcast hours.”0 -
I disagree, I think we tend to understate our importance. We are one of the top handful of countries by soft power, economy, military strength, diplomatic influence, language, finance, sport. In some we are top. It is a remarkable achievement which we should be proud of and look for new ways we can continue to influence the world such as green technology.Cyclefree said:
Judging by his speech yesterday and what I have seen of his recent campaign, he has learnt more in his time as a politician than Boris or other candidates ever will.Casino_Royale said:
Possibly, he has talent but still has a lot to learn.SouthamObserver said:
The Stewart bet should be next but one Tory leader. He is setting himself up perfectly for that as the "Told You So" candidate.Casino_Royale said:I've laid off most of my Rory Stewart off the back of the ComRes poll at about 24/1.
I think it will have a dramatic effect on Tory MPs, and his odds had already shortened anyway due to Betfair's overreaction to his big speech yesterday.
I was criticised on here the other day when I made the same point. We hugely overstate our importance as a nation and underestimate the dismay and disbelief with which we are being viewed.AlastairMeeks said:The view from Singapore:
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1138697101234397184?s=21
What we get wrong is not understanding that being big but still on a different scale to the US, EU & China is actually WORSE (apologies for caps!) for an important country outside any of the 3 groups than a small inconsequential one, especially in a Trumpian world.
We become a target to squeeze for influence and power. Issues like Huawei where we have to choose between the 3 groups will become common place, we will have no good answer if we want good relations with each group. Sooner or later London will have to choose between being open to the US or China. Our aerospace companies will be further limited in terms of who they can supply or buy from as the US gets more aggresive in protecting its own interests. The US will play this purely from a US interest point of view, there is no shared Western interests in the Trumpian viewpoint.
Within the EU we have the clout to limit the impact of the tensions between the three rival groups. Outside the EU, being important is worse for us than being a minor country.0 -
If they were non voters in the referendum in 2016 how likely are they to vote this time?Nigelb said:
That is interesting.AlastairMeeks said:Long but useful thread on movements in Remain/Leave support:
https://twitter.com/kevcunningham/status/1138426134184546310?s=21
People in work have trended remain; retirees leave.
And non voters have trended remain massively.
Does “16 non-voters” include those under age at the time?0 -
Good men rarely prosper in politics.Charles said:
I know both Boris and Rory. Rory is a good man. Boris is not.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes) Indeed, if that poll is anything to go by, there wouldn't be much of a Conservative Party left to lead for Rory Stewart. Him, Grieve and Letwin? Ha ha ha.
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.
Or much else, for that matter. They usually lose the woman of their dreams to right bastards.0 -
Wasn't the last increase in the licence fee agreed on the condition that the BBC would fund the free licences for oldies ?Quincel said:
What promises? The government withdrew funding for free licences and told the BBC to decide whether to fund them from its budget. Since the cost is about 20% of the entire BBC budget they decided they couldn't afford to, but will retain some on a means-tested basis.another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
I'm really not sure but I read something along those lines - personally I don't care one way or another as things will be different by the time I reach that age.0 -
Just deluded. Seriously when are the men in white coats going to be called? Tory MPs all seem to believe if they wish it hard enough then Brexit will happen.
Forgetting that nothing has changed and their ultra wing were the ones who stopped us leaving.
https://twitter.com/theresecoffey/status/11386978494059233300 -
Regarding the Comres poll
https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/11387150490470768640 -
I cannot see it happening but letting the EU think it will is not a bad idea to change the narrativekjohnw said:
Are you so certain of that Mr G ? , I think the likelihood of no deal is very high almost probableBig_G_NorthWales said:
Well it looks as if you will have to join TBP as no deal will not happen, even with BorisViceroy_of_Orange said:
I am in my mid-twenties, so cannot claim to have been a life-long Conservative voter, that is true. However my family, including grandparents in their 80s, have all voted Conservative since they started voting, right up until David Cameron and George Osborne.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You still are a UKIPPER and any idea you are a conservative is for the birdsViceroy_of_Orange said:
Very true.RochdalePioneers said:
A foppish Hugh Grant charm. A wicked sense of humour and twinkly eyes. The ability to transcend party politics with a brand - BORIS - that can win anywhere with support across the spectrum. An honest dishonesty - he gets things wrong and tries to pretend he didn't just like millions of his compatriots.FrancisUrquhart said:What is it that everybody sees in boris? I just dont get it. Cameron i understood, boris is a total different kettle of fish.
Boris as PM faces the same impossible parliamentary maths that did for May. But Boris can nuke both Labour and Brexit with a snap election in October. Like Farage he will offer immediate Brexit, but unlike Farage will have policies outside of Brexit which I guarantee will be more everyman than people think (as they were when he won London). Counter to this will be Magic Grandpa offering to block immediate Brexit and do a lengthy not on the table renegotiation. Leavers will vote Tory, remainers will vote LibDem.
It's all there for Boris and for the Tories. Yes, they will lose the Grieve wing of the party. But so what if they win anyway.
And losing Grieve, Letwin etc is the cherry on top.
Then, for me as a Leaver/Ukipper since 2007, it'll be project complete.
We then returned in 2017. Our continued support depends on No Deal.0 -
The Singapore fetishists are crazy. There is no way Britain will ever vote for such a vision.0
-
-
Some incredibly skilled trading has been going on, as the candidate who was apparently a massive lay for years at 5/1 is now 4/6, and no ones going to lose any money!MarqueeMark said:
pb.com's reputation is about to get a very bloody nose, having gone deep on the "lay Boris the favourite" mantra.HYUFD said:
Rory is the Tory Party saviour according to PB Remainers, they don't care about the Brexit Party oiks who like BorisWulfrun_Phil said:Surely the thread header should have been the ComRes poll that emerged last night, rather than just a bland melange of today's headlines?
https://order-order.com/2019/06/12/rory-stewart-will-destroy-conservative-party/
There were no 50-1 winners in this field.
At least it’s got everyone admitting polls are useless now.0 -
Singapore has plenty of social housingCyclefree said:
Yeah, right: Singapore’s welfare system is exactly what most Brexit voters want......Philip_Thompson said:
Cut taxes, liberate trade and become the Singapore of Europe. Decent start for what happens the day after.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
Good luck with that on the campaign trail.0 -
Singapore flourished because its strategic location allowed it to become a trade entrepôt by being an island of good governance and the rule of law. There is no opportunity to do something similar in the North Atlantic.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
1. Most UK trade is internal/domestic.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
2. Of UK external trade, an increasing majority is non-EU.
3. This isn't about trade. It's about independence + democracy.
Singapore left the world's largest Empire in history, rejected integration into Malaya and flourished. And it was basically a glorified imperial military base with little to no resources, with many internal divisions on racial/ethnic lines.
So I do see a difference - we're in an even better position than Singapore was.
The UK is a much larger mixed economy with a political settlement that depends on our integration with the EU.0 -
Nobody believes in markets since the banks were bailed out and the government borrowed a trillion quid.DecrepitJohnL said:
Because today's Conservatives don't believe in markets? Or because they are in hock to newspapers which just coincidentally own rival broadcasters?another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
Its all about who gets what place in the trough now.
And nobody likes to lose a freebie they think they're entitled to.
Given the demographics of the Conservative membership this could be a big thing to them.0 -
Scotland is a good pointer for Labour in England. Former socialist voters will swap their votes for jingoistic nationalist parties permanently.StuartDickson said:
There is not a single seat in Scotland where the SNP is not in either first or second place. If there is mass No No Deal tactical voting, there is only going to be one beneficiary north of the border.eek said:
When was that conducted.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
Equally in 2017 May had a 25% lead as the campaign began look where that got here.
And that's before Boris on a No Deal platform sees organised No No Deal tactical voting on a level never seen before (the internet makes things possibly in ways that were never previously the case)..
The Brexit party could do very well north of Watford (and South of Berwick).
0 -
But but but it’s only a poll cry the Remainers who have been telling us for a year that the nation has changed its mind on Brexit because of er polls..0
-
Only outside the major cities. There's no sign of Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, or Newcastle voting any way other than Labour.TGOHF said:
Scotland is a good pointer for Labour in England. Former socialist voters will swap their votes for jingoistic nationalist parties permanently.StuartDickson said:
There is not a single seat in Scotland where the SNP is not in either first or second place. If there is mass No No Deal tactical voting, there is only going to be one beneficiary north of the border.eek said:
When was that conducted.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Did you see the ComRes poll last night?eek said:
I can understand where you are getting the Conservative MP details from but how do you know what all Conservative members and members of the public think?Viceroy_of_Orange said:Rory Stewart absolutely bombing with Conservative MPs, Conservative members and members of the public who would consider voting Conservative. (ComRes)
Could the people on these forums and Twitter *be* anymore out of touch? It's just hilarious to see the analysis/bile on here directed at Boris, McVey and Raab by rabid Remainers and then the reaction of everyone else. Just like the referendum itself I guess.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1138551562522046464
Equally in 2017 May had a 25% lead as the campaign began look where that got here.
And that's before Boris on a No Deal platform sees organised No No Deal tactical voting on a level never seen before (the internet makes things possibly in ways that were never previously the case)..
The Brexit party could do very well north of Watford (and South of Berwick).0 -
Rory will lead the Tories to 4th place but do it very elegantly which is good for centre left Remainers who can then get on with delivering a centre left Corbyn LD and SNP anti Brexit GovernmentPhilip_Thompson said:
I don't often agree with you but yes. The PB narrative seems to be that Rory is great but the evidence is he will be an unmitigated disaster. I keep saying a Rory Tory party would get destroyed at an election like the 93 Canadian Conservatives and I've not seen anyone show any evidence otherwise.HYUFD said:
Rory is the Tory Party saviour according to PB Remainers, they don't care about the Brexit Party oiks who like BorisWulfrun_Phil said:Surely the thread header should have been the ComRes poll that emerged last night, rather than just a bland melange of today's headlines?
https://order-order.com/2019/06/12/rory-stewart-will-destroy-conservative-party/
Avid remainers (Like Mr Meeks here) won't vote for the Tory Party whether under Rory or not.
Avid Leavers won't vote for Rory either.
Sometimes the centre is where most people are. But sometimes it is where you just get destroyed on two flanks and that is what will happen here. The party needs to choose a flank and go with it.0 -
Sounds like a job creation scheme for Edinburgh media luvvies and middle managers.StuartDickson said:
You are confusing the organisation with the brand new tv channel (launched 24 February 2019) of the same name. From wiki:another_richard said:
How is BBC Scotland different to ordinary BBC beyond local news and sport programs ?StuartDickson said:
Had to laugh when the BBC threatened to close BBC Scotland if they didn’t get their way. That is funny on so many levels, not least all the gammons in Englandshire fuming at them having to pay through the nose to finance BBC Scotchland (that is so dire that not even Scots can be bothered watching it; the viewing figures are diabolical.)another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
I can't imagine the Alba channel gets many viewers.
“BBC Scotland is a Scottish English-language television station under the BBC Scotland division of the BBC. It airs a nightly lineup of entirely Scottish programming. During daytime broadcast hours, the channel broadcasts a simulcast of BBC Two, but may opt out for news and sports events outside of its formal broadcast hours.”0 -
It’s a hypothetical poll.TGOHF said:But but but it’s only a poll cry the Remainers who have been telling us for a year that the nation has changed its mind on Brexit because of er polls..
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/03/why-you-should-be-wary-of-hypothetical-polling/
I’d also remind you all that hypothetical polling prior to GE2017 had the Lib Dems finishing second if they had a stop Brexit policy.0 -
Singapore was an island of good governance and rule of law precisely because it ran under the system of government that Britain did and still does.williamglenn said:
Singapore flourished because its strategic location allowed it to become a trade entrepôt by being an island of good governance and the rule of law. There is no opportunity to do something similar in the North Atlantic.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
1. Most UK trade is internal/domestic.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
2. Of UK external trade, an increasing majority is non-EU.
3. This isn't about trade. It's about independence + democracy.
Singapore left the world's largest Empire in history, rejected integration into Malaya and flourished. And it was basically a glorified imperial military base with little to no resources, with many internal divisions on racial/ethnic lines.
So I do see a difference - we're in an even better position than Singapore was.
The UK is a much larger mixed economy with a political settlement that depends on our integration with the EU.
At the time of independence, most of Asia was a basketcase and was in decline. European imperialists and companies were withdrawing from Asia after independence, and communism swept the region. Yet Singapore still flourished.
Britain right now has good governance, the rule of law, is sat in the middle some of the busiest shipping and flight paths in the world, has natural resources, a top-tier military and is the world's 5th largest economy. It also has a largely homogenous population.
0 -
The public are generally ignorant of consequences. That doesn't mean that they will like them when they happen. Hope that helps.HYUFD said:0 -
I can't believe some people think a prolonged culture war of our major economic and cultural centres against the shires and smaller towns is in someway a desirable future of this country.
Crazy.0 -
Run by me again, how did the relatively small number of ERG nutters prevent the WA passing? You imbue them with the reputation of the 300 Spartans, such were their deeds relative to their numbers.rottenborough said:Just deluded. Seriously when are the men in white coats going to be called? Tory MPs all seem to believe if they wish it hard enough then Brexit will happen.
Forgetting that nothing has changed and their ultra wing were the ones who stopped us leaving.
https://twitter.com/theresecoffey/status/1138697849405923330
The Conservative Party completley untied would still have faield to dleiver Brexit. It is - thanks to the Wisdom of May - a minority Govt. We have not left because May could not devise a means to get the DUP on board. Nor stop the Remainer wing of her party siding with Labour/leaving to form a new party.
I'm sure the ERG are grateful for you bigging them up. After all, they did get May's scalp (years too late to be of much consequence to the Brexit negotaitions, mind.) But it is risible to suggest that if the ERG had lined up as one to approve May's Shit Deal, that Woolaston, Soubry, Grieve etc would have joind the the DUP in implementing Brexit.0 -
Rory Stewart not afraid to tackle extremely prickly topics and perhaps we might expect a substantial spike in his support :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqTkLoekm_00 -
Looking from the outside the Tory parliamentary party is a strange beast. It has the best politicians in parliament in the likes of Ken Clarke, Grieve, Stewart but also the worst in the ERG. There seems to be about 50-70 in the hardcore ERG and 20-40 in the Ken Clarke wing.Cyclefree said:
No doubt you do.Casino_Royale said:
He has to take his own party with him, you know, lead them, and on that measure he's an abject failure.Cyclefree said:
Judging by his speech yesterday and what I have seen of his recent campaign, he has learnt more in his time as a politician than Boris or other candidates ever will.Casino_Royale said:
Possibly, he has talent but still has a lot to learn.SouthamObserver said:
The Stewart bet should be next but one Tory leader. He is setting himself up perfectly for that as the "Told You So" candidate.Casino_Royale said:I've laid off most of my Rory Stewart off the back of the ComRes poll at about 24/1.
I think it will have a dramatic effect on Tory MPs, and his odds had already shortened anyway due to Betfair's overreaction to his big speech yesterday.
I was criticised on here the other day when I made the same point. We hugely overstate our importance as a nation and underestimate the dismay and disbelief with which we are being viewed.AlastairMeeks said:The view from Singapore:
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1138697101234397184?s=21
And I speak as someone who both recognises Rory's talent and thinks he's a Tory.
I know my party.
From the outside your party comes across as unhinged, stupid, ideological and utterly careless of the consequences of Brexit for those who will likely be most affected by it. They are just collateral damage for your party.
About the only good thing that can be said for what is happening to your party is that it is giving the rest of us a foretaste of what it will be like to be governed by an equally unhinged, stupid, ideological and careless of the consequences party when Corbyn’s Labour comes to power, an event which your party’s current behaviour is making ever more probable.
What do the other 200 odd think about anything? I really do not know, they tend to be careerists seeking promotion or MPs looking to do the minimum, both groups blindly follow the current party line without much thought. I used to think they were conservative with a small c and pro business but the last few years have shown that up for a lie. Perhaps the 200 who follow blindly are actually worse than the ERG who at least tend to believe the nonsense they are spouting (although some will realise it is nonsense).0 -
Like a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Britain right now has good governance, the rule of law, is sat in the middle some of the busiest shipping and flight paths in the world, has natural resources, a top-tier military and is the world's 5th largest economy. It also has a largely homogenous population.
1 -
The Brexit Party is a lobbying company masquerading as a party. A party with no members or policies.TGOHF said:The Brexit party could do very well north of Watford (and South of Berwick).
If the Tories stick a charismatic leader in who will deliver the BXP lobbying concern and other parties, Farage will have no USP and will deflate as quickly as UKIP have.
Tories can win an October election. I doubt they can win one later than that - having delayed Brexit past Halloween the betrayal narrative will be unstoppable.
0 -
Bear in mind that th PM is, sadly, going to be chosen by the Tory party members and then it begins to make sense. Reality is not required at this stage - spend half an hour reading the comments on Conservative Home. One might be forgiven for thinking Brexit is a re-run of WW2.Gallowgate said:
You can't reason with these people. They are insane.Chris said:
How does he leave by 31 October in any circumstances?rottenborough said:
Earlier this year we were told repeatedly that even if the Commons passed the withdrawal agreement, it would need something like two months of concentrated work to pass the necessary legislation.
We were also told that even if we left with No Deal, legislation would be required which would take almost as long to pass. You can expedite legislation if it's not contentious, but No Deal legislation is about as contentious as can be. There isn't a majority for it now in the Commons. Supposing Johnson won an election first on a No Deal platform - which I doubt he could, and which would cut down the available time even further - even then there is the House of Lords to deal with.
As with Brexit itself all the chickens will come home to roost later.0 -
-
-
If every Tory MP who had campaigned for Brexit had voted for the deal, it would have been much harder and more politically costly for Labour MPs to vote against it.MarqueeMark said:
Run by me again, how did the relatively small number of ERG nutters prevent the WA passing?rottenborough said:Just deluded. Seriously when are the men in white coats going to be called? Tory MPs all seem to believe if they wish it hard enough then Brexit will happen.
Forgetting that nothing has changed and their ultra wing were the ones who stopped us leaving.
https://twitter.com/theresecoffey/status/11386978494059233300 -
All very true, but will be ignored by those usual suspects on here who are far more interested in using polls for numerology rather than understanding.eek said:Regarding the Comres poll
https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/11387150490470768641 -
The Opposition isn't supposed to pass Government Policy - they are supposed to oppose. May's deal was the Government's policy and it is the responsibility of the the Conservative Party (as a whole) to pass her deal with the ERG refused to do.MarqueeMark said:
Run by me again, how did the relatively small number of ERG nutters prevent the WA passing? You imbue them with the reputation of the 300 Spartans, such were their deeds relative to their numbers.rottenborough said:Just deluded. Seriously when are the men in white coats going to be called? Tory MPs all seem to believe if they wish it hard enough then Brexit will happen.
Forgetting that nothing has changed and their ultra wing were the ones who stopped us leaving.
https://twitter.com/theresecoffey/status/1138697849405923330
The Conservative Party completley untied would still have faield to dleiver Brexit. It is - thanks to the Wisdom of May - a minority Govt. We have not left because May could not devise a means to get the DUP on board. Nor stop the Remainer wing of her party siding with Labour/leaving to form a new party.
I'm sure the ERG are grateful for you bigging them up. After all, they did get May's scalp (years too late to be of much consequence to the Brexit negotaitions, mind.) But it is risible to suggest that if the ERG had lined up as one to approve May's Shit Deal, that Woolaston, Soubry, Grieve etc would have joind the the DUP in implementing Brexit.
Now you can try to pin the blame on Grieve and others but there are only a few of those and over 70 ERG members...0 -
He would do well to remember that the Conservatives went into the last GE with polling that gave them a 3 figure majority. Weren't BXP meant to be a shoe in for Peterborough according to HUYD and the polling?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you ever consider that your 100% obsession with polling is a flawed concept especially in these crazy political timesHYUFD said:
Boris Tories plus Brexit Party =51% with ComresSouthamObserver said:
Yep, Johnson is the Trump candidate:IanB2 said:
If I lived in a seat where Labour stood a chance, and Boris was the Tory leader, I’d consider it too. And I can’t imagine any other circumstances when I would.SouthamObserver said:
Oh, I don't think the Labour vote will collapse if Johnson is PM. I think he is Labour's very best chance of keeping its 2017 coalition together. I use myself as an example here. I didn't actually vote Labour in 2017. I would do so to stop Johnson, who is every bit as racist as Corbyn and likely to align the UK closely with Trump. And I live in a marginal.Foxy said:
Yes, just like in 2017...SouthamObserver said:
It's the collapse of the Labour vote, isn't it?Scott_P said:
It's not immediately obvious how losing 30% of their 2017 vote gains them 140 seats...DecrepitJohnL said:From the Telegraph, under Boris, and this is their best result: the [Conservative] party retaining almost seven in 10 of their 2017 voters
70 per cent. Perhaps they should keep Theresa May!
http://theconversation.com/boris-johnson-supporters-want-no-deal-brexit-and-less-talk-of-climate-change-new-survey-of-party-members-reveals-118633
Given our voting system there is only one way to stop him, unfortunately.
Labour plus LDs =44%
Quoting polling figures right now as though they are written on tablets of stone is idiocy of the first order. Polling figures for Johnson will, I suspect, look very different after October 1st1 -
The handful of Tory hard remainers were almost precisely balanced by Labour rebels who voted for the deal. Its failure to pass was entirely down to the ERG and DUP who between them have ensured Brexit hasn't happened.eek said:
The Opposition isn't supposed to pass Government Policy - they are supposed to oppose. May's deal was the Government's policy and it is the responsibility of the the Conservative Party (as a whole) to pass her deal with the ERG refused to do.MarqueeMark said:
Run by me again, how did the relatively small number of ERG nutters prevent the WA passing? You imbue them with the reputation of the 300 Spartans, such were their deeds relative to their numbers.rottenborough said:Just deluded. Seriously when are the men in white coats going to be called? Tory MPs all seem to believe if they wish it hard enough then Brexit will happen.
Forgetting that nothing has changed and their ultra wing were the ones who stopped us leaving.
https://twitter.com/theresecoffey/status/1138697849405923330
The Conservative Party completley untied would still have faield to dleiver Brexit. It is - thanks to the Wisdom of May - a minority Govt. We have not left because May could not devise a means to get the DUP on board. Nor stop the Remainer wing of her party siding with Labour/leaving to form a new party.
I'm sure the ERG are grateful for you bigging them up. After all, they did get May's scalp (years too late to be of much consequence to the Brexit negotaitions, mind.) But it is risible to suggest that if the ERG had lined up as one to approve May's Shit Deal, that Woolaston, Soubry, Grieve etc would have joind the the DUP in implementing Brexit.
Now you can try to pin the blame on Grieve and others but there are only a few of those and over 70 ERG members...0 -
Nearly right. Glasgow media luvvies.another_richard said:
Sounds like a job creation scheme for Edinburgh media luvvies and middle managers.StuartDickson said:
You are confusing the organisation with the brand new tv channel (launched 24 February 2019) of the same name. From wiki:another_richard said:
How is BBC Scotland different to ordinary BBC beyond local news and sport programs ?StuartDickson said:
Had to laugh when the BBC threatened to close BBC Scotland if they didn’t get their way. That is funny on so many levels, not least all the gammons in Englandshire fuming at them having to pay through the nose to finance BBC Scotchland (that is so dire that not even Scots can be bothered watching it; the viewing figures are diabolical.)another_richard said:I suspect that the TV licences story is more important than the coverage it is getting on PB.
From what I vaguely remember reading the BBC has welched on its promises - if they are on any sort of dodgy ground I would expect the would be Conservative leaders to start making threats.
Time for some maximum wage caps at the BBC perhaps ?
I can't imagine the Alba channel gets many viewers.
“BBC Scotland is a Scottish English-language television station under the BBC Scotland division of the BBC. It airs a nightly lineup of entirely Scottish programming. During daytime broadcast hours, the channel broadcasts a simulcast of BBC Two, but may opt out for news and sports events outside of its formal broadcast hours.”0 -
If the ERG had moderated their language on 10 December, calling the deal problematic or even bad, rather treason, surrender and the worst deal ever, then Labour leavers could have voted for the deal at the 2nd or 3rd attempt. The toxification of the deal (as well as Mays abject attempts to bring them onboard), is why we did not leave the EU, and perhaps will not leave the EU.MarqueeMark said:
Run by me again, how did the relatively small number of ERG nutters prevent the WA passing? You imbue them with the reputation of the 300 Spartans, such were their deeds relative to their numbers.rottenborough said:Just deluded. Seriously when are the men in white coats going to be called? Tory MPs all seem to believe if they wish it hard enough then Brexit will happen.
Forgetting that nothing has changed and their ultra wing were the ones who stopped us leaving.
https://twitter.com/theresecoffey/status/1138697849405923330
The Conservative Party completley untied would still have faield to dleiver Brexit. It is - thanks to the Wisdom of May - a minority Govt. We have not left because May could not devise a means to get the DUP on board. Nor stop the Remainer wing of her party siding with Labour/leaving to form a new party.
I'm sure the ERG are grateful for you bigging them up. After all, they did get May's scalp (years too late to be of much consequence to the Brexit negotaitions, mind.) But it is risible to suggest that if the ERG had lined up as one to approve May's Shit Deal, that Woolaston, Soubry, Grieve etc would have joind the the DUP in implementing Brexit.
This is what Alan Duncan said at the time:
"What I really resent is the glee some people have in wanting to oppose this, and then in jostling for their own personal gain. This is contemptible. And let’s be absolutely clear that if this goes pear-shaped in the way that it really could, on the back of people opposing the deal that is on offer tomorrow night, the wreckers in history will forever be known as the wreckers."1 -
Pensioners are unhappy to give up their free TV licensesHYUFD said:
Singapore has plenty of social housingCyclefree said:
Yeah, right: Singapore’s welfare system is exactly what most Brexit voters want......Philip_Thompson said:
Cut taxes, liberate trade and become the Singapore of Europe. Decent start for what happens the day after.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
Good luck with that on the campaign trail.
A wholesale scrapping of the welfare state (which is what a Singapore model entails, along with government enforced saving) would be unlikely to go down well with the demographic (the old and the non-working) that still believe in Brexit.0 -
Yes, (from his %ages) HY assured us that BXP would win P'Boro with a majority of over 5,000OllyT said:
He would do well to remember that the Conservatives went into the last GE with polling that gave them a 3 figure majority. Weren't BXP meant to be a shoe in for Peterborough according to HUYD and the polling?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you ever consider that your 100% obsession with polling is a flawed concept especially in these crazy political timesHYUFD said:
Boris Tories plus Brexit Party =51% with ComresSouthamObserver said:
Yep, Johnson is the Trump candidate:IanB2 said:
If I lived in a seat where Labour stood a chance, and Boris was the Tory leader, I’d consider it too. And I can’t imagine any other circumstances when I would.SouthamObserver said:
Oh, I don't think the Labour vote will collapse if Johnson is PM. I think he is Labour's very best chance of keeping its 2017 coalition together. I use myself as an example here. I didn't actually vote Labour in 2017. I would do so to stop Johnson, who is every bit as racist as Corbyn and likely to align the UK closely with Trump. And I live in a marginal.Foxy said:
Yes, just like in 2017...SouthamObserver said:
It's the collapse of the Labour vote, isn't it?Scott_P said:
It's not immediately obvious how losing 30% of their 2017 vote gains them 140 seats...DecrepitJohnL said:From the Telegraph, under Boris, and this is their best result: the [Conservative] party retaining almost seven in 10 of their 2017 voters
70 per cent. Perhaps they should keep Theresa May!
http://theconversation.com/boris-johnson-supporters-want-no-deal-brexit-and-less-talk-of-climate-change-new-survey-of-party-members-reveals-118633
Given our voting system there is only one way to stop him, unfortunately.
Labour plus LDs =44%
Quoting polling figures right now as though they are written on tablets of stone is idiocy of the first order. Polling figures for Johnson will, I suspect, look very different after October 1st0 -
By the simple expedient of voting against it.MarqueeMark said:
Run by me again, how did the relatively small number of ERG nutters prevent the WA passing?rottenborough said:Just deluded. Seriously when are the men in white coats going to be called? Tory MPs all seem to believe if they wish it hard enough then Brexit will happen.
Forgetting that nothing has changed and their ultra wing were the ones who stopped us leaving.
https://twitter.com/theresecoffey/status/1138697849405923330
It's not that complicated.1 -
Enoch Powell fan Viceroy of Orange looks like a new PB superstar in the making. Just out of short breeks here’s here to show us old dogs how it should be done.Gallowgate said:
Like a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Britain right now has good governance, the rule of law, is sat in the middle some of the busiest shipping and flight paths in the world, has natural resources, a top-tier military and is the world's 5th largest economy. It also has a largely homogenous population.
(Give em enough rope...)
0 -
Singapore has justabout the lowest fertility rate in the world, andlowest in ethnicChinese. It is asociety that is completely dependent on inward migration to keepaviable population.Nigelb said:
Pensioners are unhappy to give up their free TV licensesHYUFD said:
Singapore has plenty of social housingCyclefree said:
Yeah, right: Singapore’s welfare system is exactly what most Brexit voters want......Philip_Thompson said:
Cut taxes, liberate trade and become the Singapore of Europe. Decent start for what happens the day after.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
Good luck with that on the campaign trail.
A wholesale scrapping of the welfare state (which is what a Singapore model entails, along with government enforced saving) would be unlikely to go down well with the demographic (the old and the non-working) that still believe in Brexit.0 -
kjohnw said:
Yes but under FPTP the brexit vote is far more efficient , remain is London and Scotland centricIanB2 said:
I don't think that was motivating the largest slice that voted for the LibDems, Greens, Nats and CUK?kjohnw said:
By the results of EU elections they are angry that democracy is not delivering the result of their wishes in 2016, a new PM has the right to get a mandate especially when parliament is being so obstructive to delivering brexitFoxy said:I reckon the public do not like unnecessary elections, punishing those that call one, and that was a major factor in May's fiasco of 2017.
In that case why didn't BXP cruise the Peterborough by-election as was widely predicted?0 -
He could however only just lose the election. Which would save the Tories as a going concern, at least...Scott_P said:0 -
It helps tobe young enough to not remember Enoch alive, and only to know him from fanboy alt.right sites.StuartDickson said:
Enoch Powell fan Viceroy of Orange looks like a new PB superstar in the making. Just out of short breeks here’s here to show us old dogs how it should be done.Gallowgate said:
Like a parody.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Britain right now has good governance, the rule of law, is sat in the middle some of the busiest shipping and flight paths in the world, has natural resources, a top-tier military and is the world's 5th largest economy. It also has a largely homogenous population.
(Give em enough rope...)0 -
Don't they have controlled immigration though ?Foxy said:
Singapore has justabout the lowest fertility rate in the world, andlowest in ethnicChinese. It is asociety that is completely dependent on inward migration to keepaviable population.Nigelb said:
Pensioners are unhappy to give up their free TV licensesHYUFD said:
Singapore has plenty of social housingCyclefree said:
Yeah, right: Singapore’s welfare system is exactly what most Brexit voters want......Philip_Thompson said:
Cut taxes, liberate trade and become the Singapore of Europe. Decent start for what happens the day after.Cyclefree said:
It cannot be hard, surely, to understand the difference between a small island doing this, having pretty much done this since independence, and a small island tearing up overnight all its agreements (not just trade-related ones), the whole basis of its economy and polity for 46 years and embarking on a future with no plan at all for what happens the day after.Viceroy_of_Orange said:Regarding Singapore, the diplomat and views of Britain abroad.
https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/1138709229462859776
Good luck with that on the campaign trail.
A wholesale scrapping of the welfare state (which is what a Singapore model entails, along with government enforced saving) would be unlikely to go down well with the demographic (the old and the non-working) that still believe in Brexit.0 -
Difference is that both May and BXP are crap at campaigning. Boris isn't.OllyT said:
He would do well to remember that the Conservatives went into the last GE with polling that gave them a 3 figure majority. Weren't BXP meant to be a shoe in for Peterborough according to HUYD and the polling?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you ever consider that your 100% obsession with polling is a flawed concept especially in these crazy political timesHYUFD said:
Boris Tories plus Brexit Party =51% with ComresSouthamObserver said:
Yep, Johnson is the Trump candidate:IanB2 said:
If I lived in a seat where Labour stood a chance, and Boris was the Tory leader, I’d consider it too. And I can’t imagine any other circumstances when I would.SouthamObserver said:
Oh, I don't think the Labour vote will collapse if Johnson is PM. I think he is Labour's very best chance of keeping its 2017 coalition together. I use myself as an example here. I didn't actually vote Labour in 2017. I would do so to stop Johnson, who is every bit as racist as Corbyn and likely to align the UK closely with Trump. And I live in a marginal.Foxy said:
Yes, just like in 2017...SouthamObserver said:
It's the collapse of the Labour vote, isn't it?Scott_P said:
It's not immediately obvious how losing 30% of their 2017 vote gains them 140 seats...DecrepitJohnL said:From the Telegraph, under Boris, and this is their best result: the [Conservative] party retaining almost seven in 10 of their 2017 voters
70 per cent. Perhaps they should keep Theresa May!
http://theconversation.com/boris-johnson-supporters-want-no-deal-brexit-and-less-talk-of-climate-change-new-survey-of-party-members-reveals-118633
Given our voting system there is only one way to stop him, unfortunately.
Labour plus LDs =44%
Quoting polling figures right now as though they are written on tablets of stone is idiocy of the first order. Polling figures for Johnson will, I suspect, look very different after October 1st0
