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Comments
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Now you're talking.rottenborough said:How long before these whackos in Con membership are demanding that Calais be returned to English hands is part of a proper No Deal Brexit?
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AndyJS said:
That's true, but with nominations closing on Monday I thought they could voting start on Tuesday instead of waiting until Thursday.MarkHopkins said:AndyJS said:I don't know why they can't hold the first ballot on Tuesday.
I think there's only two days of balloting - the first day removes the no-hopers, then the second will have repeated voting till the final two are reached.
A couple of extra days to prepare doesn't seem too much - the longest wait will be for the member's vote.
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Err... No Deal means No Deal!Casino_Royale said:
Now you're talking.rottenborough said:How long before these whackos in Con membership are demanding that Calais be returned to English hands is part of a proper No Deal Brexit?
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Some MPs will be lying. If you ever wanted to be seen to back the winner (Boris) but are secretly horrified and don't actually want to vote for him then now would be the time.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless MPs are lying, Boris looks guaranteed for Top 2. McVey and Raab will be eliminated and have 30 that will presumably transfer to him.AndyJS said:200 Tory MPs have endorsed a candidate. 113 to go.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1feCjt98HJcY9tlc5Zx78ZoSOC2fN-j0vRVFD5eUTbUE/edit#gid=0
Johnson 52, Gove 33, Hunt 33, Raab 24, Javid 17, Hancock 13,
Harper 7, McVey 6, Stewart 6, Leadsom 5, Gyimah 4.
But, and I don't think this is a good thing, there will be peer pressure for Tory MPs to take snapshots of and share their secret ballots.0 -
Casino_Royale said:
Some MPs will be lying. If you ever wanted to be seen to back the winner (Boris) but are secretly horrified and don't actually want to vote for him then now would be the time.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless MPs are lying, Boris looks guaranteed for Top 2. McVey and Raab will be eliminated and have 30 that will presumably transfer to him.AndyJS said:200 Tory MPs have endorsed a candidate. 113 to go.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1feCjt98HJcY9tlc5Zx78ZoSOC2fN-j0vRVFD5eUTbUE/edit#gid=0
Johnson 52, Gove 33, Hunt 33, Raab 24, Javid 17, Hancock 13,
Harper 7, McVey 6, Stewart 6, Leadsom 5, Gyimah 4.
But, and I don't think this is a good thing, there will be peer pressure for Tory MPs to take snapshots of and share their secret ballots.
They should use a pen and not a pencil as well...
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I thought the 22 had banned that sort of behaviour.Casino_Royale said:
Some MPs will be lying. If you ever wanted to be seen to back the winner (Boris) but are secretly horrified and don't actually want to vote for him then now would be the time.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless MPs are lying, Boris looks guaranteed for Top 2. McVey and Raab will be eliminated and have 30 that will presumably transfer to him.AndyJS said:200 Tory MPs have endorsed a candidate. 113 to go.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1feCjt98HJcY9tlc5Zx78ZoSOC2fN-j0vRVFD5eUTbUE/edit#gid=0
Johnson 52, Gove 33, Hunt 33, Raab 24, Javid 17, Hancock 13,
Harper 7, McVey 6, Stewart 6, Leadsom 5, Gyimah 4.
But, and I don't think this is a good thing, there will be peer pressure for Tory MPs to take snapshots of and share their secret ballots.0 -
All indications are that the EU will not reopen negotiations. Whoever has won the leadership ballot will almost certainly have committed to leaving with no deal in those circumstances.anothernick said:
Unfortunately I think you are right. Boris needs to be forced to go cap in hand to the EU, as May has done. Only then will reality begin to intrude into Brexit fairyland.SouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.
Parliament is likely to block no deal so what happens then? If a GE is called what policy does the Conservative then fight on? If they go for no deal they will lose a swathe of MPs and voters to the Lib Dems and others, if they don't they will lose swathes of voters to Farage's outfit who will be screaming betrayal at the tops of their voices.
I can't see how the Tories get out of this in one piece. I don't feel any sympathy because the whole f**ing mess is of their making0 -
Boris will likely have to before mid October, as assuming the Commons does not pass his Withdrawal Agreement by then and assuming the EU does not remove the backstop from it, he will need a majority to dump the DUP and go for a FTA for GB policy even if temporarily keeping the NI backstop until a technical solution is found and then get the WA passed before the extension runs out.Benpointer said:
You're suggesting Boris would quickly call a GE?HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.
Plus even if Boris went for No Deal the current Commons would vote for extension or even revoke over No Deal
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These same Conservative MPs who elected Theresa May in 2016, and then banged their desks to support her in 2017 after they'd seen how bad a campaigner she was, and then supported her in the confidence vote, are the same MPs voting in this leadership election.Philip_Thompson said:On topic May completely screwed up the election and she definitely should have gone in 2017.
However when we look back in hindsight another group who may regret their decisions in hindsight is the so-called "moderate" Tories who wanted to originally elect and then to keep May to prevent someone like Boris winning. They may have just delayed him doing so and in so doing they have triggered the rise of the Brexit Party and ensured the Tories now need to fight on that flank.
We could now actually end up with a harder Brexit that we would have had Boris won in 2016, or May been ousted in 2017, or at the VONC.
Conservative MPs are not blessed with the wisdom of Solomon. It is hardly surprising that Oxford is plummeting down the university league tables.0 -
Exactly, to dispense with the DUP who will never accept the backstop and to get a mandate for a GB FTA Boris will have to call a general election in the autumn and try and get a majoritySandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
Have you factored the party conference season into your timetable?HYUFD said:
Boris will likely have to before mid October, as assuming the Commons does not pass his Withdrawal Agreement by then and assuming the EU does not remove the backstop from it, he will need a majority to dump the DUP and go for a FTA for GB policy even if temporarily keeping the NI backstop until a technical solution is found and then get the WA passed before the extension runs out.Benpointer said:
You're suggesting Boris would quickly call a GE?HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.
Plus even if Boris went for No Deal the current Commons would vote for extension or even revoke over No Deal0 -
If renting is seen as the norm, politicians will seek policies that are favourable to renters, as already happens in Germany, where there are average market price rent controls and security of tenancies.rcs1000 said:Having just caught up with (some of) the earlier threat, and in particular how to ensure affordable housing. A few thoughts:
1. There is no certainty a Land Value Tax would result in higher rents. Seems implausible? Well remember 3G licenses. At the time, a lot of articles were written suggesting that countries where operators paid many billions for 3G licenses would end up with higher phone bills. By contrast, it was suggested that in those countries where licenses were given away, bills would be lower. It didn't happen. There was no correlation. Why? Because what an operator had paid for a license had no impact on supply and demand. And prices are set by supply and demand.
2. The best way to lower prices for young people is to ensure that the market is efficient. Things that discourage people trading down result in low market efficiency, because they result in people living in houses that are too big for them. So, high rates of stamp duty mean that a couple who've children have left home will be unlikely to move to a smaller house, because doing so has high costs. At the very least, have an exemption for people trading down.
3. There are too few council tax bands, especially at the top end. This also discourages trading down. You should be able to save money in terms of council tax by going from a large house to a smaller one, or to an apartment.
4. Don't think that renting is automatically bad and owning good. Think in terms of overall property supply. Many of the proposals from government of all colours have worked to discourage people renting properties out, which has the knock on effect of discouraging construction, as it is a supply of additional properties for sale.
5. Remember the mantra: things that improve the efficiency of the market (i.e. encourage better utilisation) are good.
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When you talk about a “GB FTA”, do you mean to throw NI under the bus with an Irish Sea border?HYUFD said:
Exactly, to dispense with the DUP who will never accept the backstop and to get a mandate for a GB FTA Boris will have to call a general election in the autumn and try and get a majoritySandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
Well security of tenancy is about to change and Labour are looking at rent controls (after all renters are going to be a core political target going forward),FF43 said:
If renting is seen as the norm, politicians will seek policies that are favourable to renters, as already happens in Germany, where there are average market price rent controls and security of tenancies.rcs1000 said:Having just caught up with (some of) the earlier threat, and in particular how to ensure affordable housing. A few thoughts:
1. There is no certainty a Land Value Tax would result in higher rents. Seems implausible? Well remember 3G licenses. At the time, a lot of articles were written suggesting that countries where operators paid many billions for 3G licenses would end up with higher phone bills. By contrast, it was suggested that in those countries where licenses were given away, bills would be lower. It didn't happen. There was no correlation. Why? Because what an operator had paid for a license had no impact on supply and demand. And prices are set by supply and demand.
2. The best way to lower prices for young people is to ensure that the market is efficient. Things that discourage people trading down result in low market efficiency, because they result in people living in houses that are too big for them. So, high rates of stamp duty mean that a couple who've children have left home will be unlikely to move to a smaller house, because doing so has high costs. At the very least, have an exemption for people trading down.
3. There are too few council tax bands, especially at the top end. This also discourages trading down. You should be able to save money in terms of council tax by going from a large house to a smaller one, or to an apartment.
4. Don't think that renting is automatically bad and owning good. Think in terms of overall property supply. Many of the proposals from government of all colours have worked to discourage people renting properties out, which has the knock on effect of discouraging construction, as it is a supply of additional properties for sale.
5. Remember the mantra: things that improve the efficiency of the market (i.e. encourage better utilisation) are good.0 -
It's not destroying itself that is the problem, it's what they do to everyone else while doing so. I confess even knowing how intense some are on Brexit I didn't think Raab, and by reasonable extension all those who back him including a sizable portion of members, would propose such blisteringly awful options because they truly believe anything should be done, any price should be paid, to achieve Brexit.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
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tlg86 said:
German Greens are not the same as the Greens we have.MattW said:
If the greens get in control, that will be Germany eventually f*cked due to the herds of pink elephants.HYUFD said:Greens again lead in another German poll with the AfD now tieing the SPD for third
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1137380070404890625?s=20
OK - I admit i was a bit of a Saturday afternoon looseness in between deciding whether it was worth wading in on the rental debate.
I know that of course, and I have followed Jon Worth's journey through the German Greens with interest.
But reading some of the Grune policies indicate they are every bit as unrealistic as our lot in many ways, if rather less hysterical.
IMO anyway.0 -
And somehow Boris wins that. Right. (A GE because he failed is not the same as a hypothetical poll saying he has a chance)Sandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.
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Hope everyone took the 1.04 I tipped earlier for England to beat Bangladesh in the cricket?0
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If hes honest about that it is one thing. But he wants the votes of people who traditionally do care more about the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
Sounds good to me. We have Scottish nationalists, Welsh Nationalists and Irish nationalists. About time we have English nationalists.SouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
Inspired! You've clearly got the game by the bails.Sandpit said:Hope everyone took the 1.04 I tipped earlier for England to beat Bangladesh in the cricket?
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I knew Michael Gove had some skeletons in his closet but I didn't know about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmf7p304go&t=2s
Unfortunately the video comes courtesy of well, you know....0 -
Only some fresh scandal could prevent him and what at this point would do that? I'm drawing a blank.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless MPs are lying, Boris looks guaranteed for Top 2. McVey and Raab will be eliminated and have 30 that will presumably transfer to him.AndyJS said:200 Tory MPs have endorsed a candidate. 113 to go.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1feCjt98HJcY9tlc5Zx78ZoSOC2fN-j0vRVFD5eUTbUE/edit#gid=0
Johnson 52, Gove 33, Hunt 33, Raab 24, Javid 17, Hancock 13,
Harper 7, McVey 6, Stewart 6, Leadsom 5, Gyimah 4.0 -
Yes - the infallible wisdom of hindsight. I have as much of that as the next man.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kinabalu, calling the election is entirely defensible.
Running the worst election campaign in modern history is not.
What got her was our old friend hubris. He is brilliant at puncturing grandiose delusions. He's working on a few projects now, in fact, and I can hardly wait.0 -
So in fact you very much do have time for Corbyn. What's the point of saying you dont if the reality of the need to stop the tories mean he is something you will put up with? Many Tories are already preparing similar logic for Boris.nico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.0 -
For sure it will be a big change just as it will be a big change when Merkel goes.MattW said:tlg86 said:
German Greens are not the same as the Greens we have.MattW said:
If the greens get in control, that will be Germany eventually f*cked due to the herds of pink elephants.HYUFD said:Greens again lead in another German poll with the AfD now tieing the SPD for third
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1137380070404890625?s=20
OK - I admit i was a bit of a Saturday afternoon looseness in between deciding whether it was worth wading in on the rental debate.
I know that of course, and I have followed Jon Worth's journey through the German Greens with interest.
But reading some of the Grune policies indicate they are every bit as unrealistic as our lot in many ways, if rather less hysterical.
IMO anyway.0 -
Will it? YouGov gives a Boris led Tories a 7% lead over Labour who can only tie the LDs for second place.nico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=20
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On topic, I don't particularly blame May for Brexit turning into the sort of mess I expected, but I did expect to actually leave the European Union. The loss of the parliamentary majority made a difficult task impossible. But the decision to hold an election in the hope of getting a sizeable majority was a reasonable one, given the need to deal with that inevitable mess.0
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Absolutely, managed to make me the grand total of £20!DecrepitJohnL said:
Inspired! You've clearly got the game by the bails.Sandpit said:Hope everyone took the 1.04 I tipped earlier for England to beat Bangladesh in the cricket?
(£20 which I’m becoming worried is going to have to help bail me out of the last three years of laying Boris Johnson as next Con leader!).0 -
A 7% lead which may assume he can deliver on his promises. If he cannot why would the lead persist? May led by 7% this year too. Then reality hit.HYUFD said:
Will it? YouGov gives a Boris led Tories a 7% lead over Labour who can only tie the LDs for second placenico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.0 -
And more hindsight than Conservative MPs who ducked two chances to remove Theresa May after the election.kinabalu said:
Yes - the infallible wisdom of hindsight. I have as much of that as the next man.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kinabalu, calling the election is entirely defensible.
Running the worst election campaign in modern history is not.
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An election could be held in early September if needed or early October or the party conferences postponedDecrepitJohnL said:
Have you factored the party conference season into your timetable?HYUFD said:
Boris will likely have to before mid October, as assuming the Commons does not pass his Withdrawal Agreement by then and assuming the EU does not remove the backstop from it, he will need a majority to dump the DUP and go for a FTA for GB policy even if temporarily keeping the NI backstop until a technical solution is found and then get the WA passed before the extension runs out.Benpointer said:
You're suggesting Boris would quickly call a GE?HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.
Plus even if Boris went for No Deal the current Commons would vote for extension or even revoke over No Deal0 -
Boris wins it comfortably, he gets a mandate for a GB FTA which is what most voters wantkle4 said:
And somehow Boris wins that. Right. (A GE because he failed is not the same as a hypothetical poll saying he has a chance)Sandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
Hitler wasn't German.FrankBooth said:I knew Michael Gove had some skeletons in his closet but I didn't know about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmf7p304go&t=2s
Unfortunately the video comes courtesy of well, you know....1 -
I mean throw the DUP under the bus not NI, most Northern Irish voters back the backstop and do not want an Irish border, as seen in the European elections recently when the non sectarian Alliance took the third seat in Northern Ireland and Sinn Fein beat the DUP for firstSandpit said:
When you talk about a “GB FTA”, do you mean to throw NI under the bus with an Irish Sea border?HYUFD said:
Exactly, to dispense with the DUP who will never accept the backstop and to get a mandate for a GB FTA Boris will have to call a general election in the autumn and try and get a majoritySandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
Hilarious stuff.HYUFD said:
Boris wins it comfortably, he gets a mandate for a GB FTA which is what most voters wantkle4 said:
And somehow Boris wins that. Right. (A GE because he failed is not the same as a hypothetical poll saying he has a chance)Sandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
There’s a whole thread of it here:FrankBooth said:I knew Michael Gove had some skeletons in his closet but I didn't know about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmf7p304go&t=2s
Unfortunately the video comes courtesy of well, you know....
https://twitter.com/chrismorrisbits/status/1132574932062396416?s=210 -
I suspect we will shortly be putting the mantra 'always lay the favourite' in a Tory election to sleep once and for all.Sandpit said:
Absolutely, managed to make me the grand total of £20!DecrepitJohnL said:
Inspired! You've clearly got the game by the bails.Sandpit said:Hope everyone took the 1.04 I tipped earlier for England to beat Bangladesh in the cricket?
(£20 which I’m becoming worried is going to have to help bail me out of the last three years of laying Boris Johnson as next Con leader!).0 -
Boris' promise is for a FTA and the only way he can achieve that for GB is with the backstop for NI, the DUP will never allow that hence he has to call a general election to get a mandate for it.kle4 said:
A 7% lead which may assume he can deliver on his promises. If he cannot why would the lead persist? May led by 7% this year too. Then reality hit.HYUFD said:
Will it? YouGov gives a Boris led Tories a 7% lead over Labour who can only tie the LDs for second placenico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.
Boris is not promising to deliver May's current deal either including the temporary customs union for GB which he wants to remove and to do that and agree the Deal with the EU still he has to keep the backstop solely for NI.
Boris also has charisma, May did not and Corbyn got a hung parliament last year by getting Remainers behind him, Remainers are currently moving en masse from Labour to the LDs as that YouGov poll shows while Boris as leader would cut back the Brexit Party and take a clear Tory lead again.
Note too the Brexit Party would still get 13% even with a Boris led Tories, particularly in Labour areas in the North and Midlands and Wales, an effect which helped the Tories win seats in 2015 but was cut back in 2017 so Labour will be hit from both sides
0 -
That, I am sure, is precisely what he would say. Although to be sure we'll have to wait for the memoirs.Philip_Thompson said:How would he have known what a dreadful campaign she would run?
"They Just Would Not Listen - how David Davis was sidelined and the price we all paid for that".0 -
Toby Young is trending!0
-
Quite pleased with my Tory book. Red on Raab, Davis, Patel, Baker, Hammond, Rudd, Williamson, Cleverly, Mogg + a load of names very unlikely to run now e.g. Kwarteng0
-
I’ll take that as a yes then, in which case any PM is going to find an awful lot of the Conservative and Unionist party unwilling to back it.HYUFD said:
I mean throw the DUP under the bus not NI, most Northern Irish voters back the backstop and do not want an Irish border, as seen in the European elections recently when the non sectarian Alliance took the third seat in Northern Ireland and Sinn Fein beat the DUP for firstSandpit said:
When you talk about a “GB FTA”, do you mean to throw NI under the bus with an Irish Sea border?HYUFD said:
Exactly, to dispense with the DUP who will never accept the backstop and to get a mandate for a GB FTA Boris will have to call a general election in the autumn and try and get a majoritySandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:0 -
So, his strategy is to make the backstop less acceptable to the DUP?HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
I sympathise with the moderate unionists but what attempts have been made to integrate into the rest of the UK? Do some of them not realise that they are part of a union with a great liberal tradition? Whose core values have been tolerance, fair play and open markets. The loss of subsidy would surely force everyone there to move on and build an economy - which we continue to not bother incentivising by offering billions of pounds indefinitely.
0 -
Chortle ...rcs1000 said:
So, his strategy is to make the backstop less acceptable to the DUP?HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.
0 -
Justin Edinburgh, ex-Spurs player and current Leyton Orient manager has died aged 49.0
-
Show me the correlation between protections for tenants and higher birthrates, and I will believe you.noneoftheabove said:Renting is often fine when starting out but renting without security of tenure is generally bad for families, indeed it will result in fewer people choosing to have families.
I think people care far more about housing costs and affordablity, than they do about abstract protections.
I think you also forget just how f*cked up housing markets become when the government interferes too much.
Landlords seeking to get rid of tenants stop doing repairs. Or they make sure that some guys making music 24/7 move into the empty apartment next door. Or start sending the boys round to encourage you to move.
And you discourage people from renting out their properties.1 -
It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.0
-
Such a shame so soon after re-joining the Leaguedixiedean said:Justin Edinburgh, ex-Spurs player and current Leyton Orient manager has died aged 49.
0 -
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
1 -
Boris only wins if Nigel doesn't stand and there is zero chance of him not standing candidates...HYUFD said:
Boris wins it comfortably, he gets a mandate for a GB FTA which is what most voters wantkle4 said:
And somehow Boris wins that. Right. (A GE because he failed is not the same as a hypothetical poll saying he has a chance)Sandpit said:
How does that ever pass Parliament? If they can’t amend the backstop to get the DUP on board then the only way out is going to be a new Parliament - so we get an election in the autumn.HYUFD said:
Far from it, indeed Boris will go for a FTA most people in GB want by removing the temporary customs union for the political declaration and he may yet accept the backstop for NI (with some vague promise about finding a technical solution) in order to get that GB FTA. If Boris wins a majority he then can dispense with the DUP and reluctantly accept the backstop for the time being, avoiding a hard border in the process as most NI voters wantSouthamObserver said:
He would happily destroy the Union and dump all over the people of Northern Ireland to secure power. Just like all the other Tory leadership candidates with a chance of winning. He is a hard core English nationalist.HYUFD said:
Boris actually is more of a 'global vision' Brexiteer rather than the English nationalism of say Farage or Bill CashSouthamObserver said:
Unfortunately, the only way to kill of the hard right English nationalism the Tories are now embracing is for them to confront the reality of what it delivers. We need to hit rock bottom before we can start rebuilding the country the Tories have smashed to pieces. There's a way to go yet. That it will result in the total humiliation and disgrace of Johnson and co is the one silver lining in the whole sorry episode.rottenborough said:
You say that. But if the replacement is a wild set of bat-shit crazy loons who don't believe in parliamentary democracy but whacko voice of the public ideas, then the country is even more f-ed than I thought.SouthamObserver said:If the Conservative and Unionist Party wishes to destroy itself it would be rude to stop it from doing so.
Things just seem to be getting worse and worse.
I wonder what the Queen thinks of what is being done to her realm.0 -
Any sightings of HMS Mordaunt ?0
-
Yes, he was doing a good job reviving Orient's fortunes. Cardiac arrest Monday, died today. 49 is no age. RIP.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Such a shame so soon after re-joining the Leaguedixiedean said:Justin Edinburgh, ex-Spurs player and current Leyton Orient manager has died aged 49.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/485680070 -
No I don’t have time for him . I’m voting inspite of him. I’d much rather be enthusiastic about a party leader .kle4 said:
So in fact you very much do have time for Corbyn. What's the point of saying you dont if the reality of the need to stop the tories mean he is something you will put up with? Many Tories are already preparing similar logic for Boris.nico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.0 -
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
0 -
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
0 -
So you would vote for the anti semites and a party whose policies would have a worse affect on living standards than a hard bexit.nico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.
Hmmm1 -
What is the statute of limitations for cocaine possession ?eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
0 -
Normally there is evidence of a crime being committed rather than just someone's word that one happened.ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
If I claimed to have killed someone but the police could find no evidence anyone had been killed it is unlikely there would be a successful prosecution.0 -
Time for Javid to arrest his rivals !
The drug habits of middle-class professionals will be profiled as part of a crackdown on the causes of violent crime, the home secretary has announced.
Sajid Javid will hold a review into who is buying and selling illicit substances, including whether professionals are involved, in order to help the police and other law enforcement agencies to clamp down on the drugs trade.0 -
Sounds good to me. Johnson calls an election based on a mythical renegotiation of May's deal. With the result that Farage campaigns for No Deal, splitting the Tory vote in two (if the Tories are lucky). Result - a Labour government, and a very soft Brexit or no Brexit at all ...HYUFD said:
Boris' promise is for a FTA and the only way he can achieve that for GB is with the backstop for NI, the DUP will never allow that hence he has to call a general election to get a mandate for it.kle4 said:
A 7% lead which may assume he can deliver on his promises. If he cannot why would the lead persist? May led by 7% this year too. Then reality hit.HYUFD said:
Will it? YouGov gives a Boris led Tories a 7% lead over Labour who can only tie the LDs for second placenico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.
Boris is not promising to deliver May's current deal either including the temporary customs union for GB which he wants to remove and to do that and agree the Deal with the EU still he has to keep the backstop solely for NI.
Boris also has charisma, May did not and Corbyn got a hung parliament last year by getting Remainers behind him, Remainers are currently moving en masse from Labour to the LDs as that YouGov poll shows while Boris as leader would cut back the Brexit Party and take a clear Tory lead again.
Note too the Brexit Party would still get 13% even with a Boris led Tories, particularly in Labour areas in the North and Midlands and Wales, an effect which helped the Tories win seats in 2015 but was cut back in 2017 so Labour will be hit from both sides0 -
How many HYUFD are there do they ever sleep, eat or s***?0
-
Richard Leonard, Scottish Labour leader: “Yes, I want to stop Brexit.”
Channel 4 News, right now
Whoops!
0 -
There isn't one. Apparently in the UK there is no statute of limitations for any criminal offenceNigelb said:
What is the statute of limitations for cocaine possession ?eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
0 -
I could be wrong, but I don't think there is one.Nigelb said:
What is the statute of limitations for cocaine possession ?eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
0 -
Jonathan's deeper point (I think) is valid, though - there's a real difference in how the middle classes treat experiments with drugs (amused tolerance, not a hindrance to being PM) and the devastating effect that a drugs charge can have on someone at the bottom of the pile (criminal record, serious employment difficulty).eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
It's something that is massively affected by your circle of friends. I know people who have never been even offered drugs, let alone refused, and people who find that incredible, like never having drunk coffee. As a society we are seriously mixed up about the whole area.2 -
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/birth-rate-declining-among-renters-24166rcs1000 said:
Show me the correlation between protections for tenants and higher birthrates, and I will believe you.noneoftheabove said:Renting is often fine when starting out but renting without security of tenure is generally bad for families, indeed it will result in fewer people choosing to have families.
I think people care far more about housing costs and affordablity, than they do about abstract protections.
I think you also forget just how f*cked up housing markets become when the government interferes too much.
Landlords seeking to get rid of tenants stop doing repairs. Or they make sure that some guys making music 24/7 move into the empty apartment next door. Or start sending the boys round to encourage you to move.
And you discourage people from renting out their properties.0 -
If the police believed however that you were a suspect, they might treat it as a confession. Of course, such a statement could later be withdrawn or deemed inadmissible.Richard_Tyndall said:
Normally there is evidence of a crime being committed rather than just someone's word that one happened.ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
If I claimed to have killed someone but the police could find no evidence anyone had been killed it is unlikely there would be a successful prosecution.0 -
It’s actually another example of the way May successfully shaped the narrative, even before she became reliant on the DUP. Her early ‘precious union’ rhetoric and insistence that there could be no bespoke Brexit solution for each part of the UK contradicted Brexiteers like Mervyn King who advocated an Irish Sea border right at the beginning, and said it would be one of the positives of Brexit.FrankBooth said:I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
It’s quite likely that May was only thinking of thwarting the SNP and hadn’t fully considered the Northern Irish dimension at the time.0 -
I am firmly in the camp that believes the whole thing should be decriminalised. That said, whilst it is still against the law politicians should not be openly claiming they flouted it.NickPalmer said:
Jonathan's deeper point (I think) is valid, though - there's a real difference in how the middle classes treat experiments with drugs (amused tolerance, not a hindrance to being PM) and the devastating effect that a drugs charge can have on someone at the bottom of the pile (criminal record, serious employment difficulty).eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
It's something that is massively affected by your circle of friends. I know people who have never been even offered drugs, let alone refused, and people who find that incredible, like never having drunk coffee. As a society we are seriously mixed up about the whole area.0 -
I would argue I am the one broadly calling for less govt intervention! Get rid of help to buy, stop subsidising housing benefit to the current levels, get rid of tax relief for landlords borrowing, stop QE, stop publicly owned banks prioritising bubble lending on residential property instead of helping start new business.rcs1000 said:
Show me the correlation between protections for tenants and higher birthrates, and I will believe you.noneoftheabove said:Renting is often fine when starting out but renting without security of tenure is generally bad for families, indeed it will result in fewer people choosing to have families.
I think people care far more about housing costs and affordablity, than they do about abstract protections.
I think you also forget just how f*cked up housing markets become when the government interferes too much.
Landlords seeking to get rid of tenants stop doing repairs. Or they make sure that some guys making music 24/7 move into the empty apartment next door. Or start sending the boys round to encourage you to move.
And you discourage people from renting out their properties.1 -
That's where bots score over real peoplenichomar said:How many HYUFD are there do they ever sleep, eat or s***?
0 -
As opposed to the UKIP lite Tory party which is being overtaken by a bunch of nutjobs . And no I don’t believe Labour would hit living standards . And certainly I’m happy for the UK not to become Trumps poodle .Floater said:
So you would vote for the anti semites and a party whose policies would have a worse affect on living standards than a hard bexit.nico67 said:Been having some interesting conversations with lots of Labour voting but generally anti Corbyn friends after the Peterborough result .
All ardent Remainers . When push comes to shove we’ll all be voting Labour unless we need to tactically vote to stop the Tories .
The best news for Corbyn is the likely lurch to the right of the next Tory PM. This will galvanize Labour supporters and help keep the party together .
I have no time for Corbyn but will walk over hot coals to see the Tories beaten.
Hmmm
Not sure lecturing Labour voters on the dangers of voting for them stands up to scrutiny when the Tories are busy destroying the UK and trashing its reputation .0 -
Not too sure .... but they have to draw the line somewhere ......Nigelb said:
What is the statute of limitations for cocaine possession ?eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
0 -
You could be white, but if were you I'd keep the powder dry lest you get a dusty response.JackW said:
Not too sure .... but they have to draw the line somewhere ......Nigelb said:
What is the statute of limitations for cocaine possession ?eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
0 -
I'd say that RCS has it here.FF43 said:
If renting is seen as the norm, politicians will seek policies that are favourable to renters, as already happens in Germany, where there are average market price rent controls and security of tenancies.rcs1000 said:Having just caught up with (some of) the earlier threat, and in particular how to ensure affordable housing. A few thoughts:
3. There are too few council tax bands, especially at the top end. This also discourages trading down. You should be able to save money in terms of council tax by going from a large house to a smaller one, or to an apartment.
4. Don't think that renting is automatically bad and owning good. Think in terms of overall property supply. Many of the proposals from government of all colours have worked to discourage people renting properties out, which has the knock on effect of discouraging construction, as it is a supply of additional properties for sale.
5. Remember the mantra: things that improve the efficiency of the market (i.e. encourage better utilisation) are good.
Politicians have not got a clue what is favourable to renters. The pillock Brokenshire cannot even get it right that the PRS is shrinking quite rapidly.
Policies that politicians think are favourable to renters are often nothing of the kind, and are in practice just populist or dancing to lobbyist tunes.
The Tenant Fees Act that came into force last week is a Dog's Breakfast, which will have multiple negative impacts.
In practice rents will rise, just as they did in Scotland (*), and the implementation is such a mess that they have seriously damaged Deposit Protection, undermined pet tenancies (which has been increasing significantly), tilted the expenses against long-term tenants, and all kind of costs are now going to be averaged across all tenants rather than attributed to those who caused them.
But this is about politics, not helping people.
The German regulation regime would have allowed rents to increase far faster here than has happened over the last 2 decades.
* Just in case, here are the Scottish Govt statistics for PRS rent increases. Since the fee ban in 2012 in Scotland, all numbers have significantly beat CPI inflation, which is just about 10%.
Ref:https://www.gov.scot/publications/private-sector-rent-statistics-2010-2018/pages/8/0 -
Dearie me. All the classic anti-monarchy jests, including that Prince Charles is “a German”. The interview with Königin des Vereinigten Königreichs Großbritannien und Nordirland at Buckingham Palace ought to be lovely and relaxed.FrankBooth said:I knew Michael Gove had some skeletons in his closet but I didn't know about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmf7p304go&t=2s
Unfortunately the video comes courtesy of well, you know....0 -
Anything to do with his srlf-confessed use and supply of cocaine?kinabalu said:Toby Young is trending!
0 -
Tend to agree, on both counts.Richard_Tyndall said:
I am firmly in the camp that believes the whole thing should be decriminalised. That said, whilst it is still against the law politicians should not be openly claiming they flouted it.
What are the other offences that make most people smile tolerantly? Speeding up to about 20%. Getting drunk and disorderly when young. What else? It changes over time, doesn't it? - people used to think drink-driving was funny, now it's anathema to most of us. Tax evasion is borderline - most people wouldn't actually approve, but wouldn't inform the police (whereas they might well report a burglar, even if he stole much less than the tax fraudster).0 -
Out of interest what is the social background of the people who have never been offered drugs? I find it hard to believe many of them can have been at university or grown up in a city.NickPalmer said:
Jonathan's deeper point (I think) is valid, though - there's a real difference in how the middle classes treat experiments with drugs (amused tolerance, not a hindrance to being PM) and the devastating effect that a drugs charge can have on someone at the bottom of the pile (criminal record, serious employment difficulty).eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
It's something that is massively affected by your circle of friends. I know people who have never been even offered drugs, let alone refused, and people who find that incredible, like never having drunk coffee. As a society we are seriously mixed up about the whole area.0 -
I've never drunk tea or coffee.NickPalmer said:
Jonathan's deeper point (I think) is valid, though - there's a real difference in how the middle classes treat experiments with drugs (amused tolerance, not a hindrance to being PM) and the devastating effect that a drugs charge can have on someone at the bottom of the pile (criminal record, serious employment difficulty).eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
It's something that is massively affected by your circle of friends. I know people who have never been even offered drugs, let alone refused, and people who find that incredible, like never having drunk coffee. As a society we are seriously mixed up about the whole area.0 -
Yes, it is now clear that despite droning on endlessly about the “Irish Border” (it isn’t: it is the British Border in Ireland) and the Backstop, their true panic was over Scotland. Scots sunk Brexit. This patriot has ripples of pride.williamglenn said:
It’s actually another example of the way May successfully shaped the narrative, even before she became reliant on the DUP. Her early ‘precious union’ rhetoric and insistence that there could be no bespoke Brexit solution for each part of the UK contradicted Brexiteers like Mervyn King who advocated an Irish Sea border right at the beginning, and said it would be one of the positives of Brexit.FrankBooth said:I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
It’s quite likely that May was only thinking of thwarting the SNP and hadn’t fully considered the Northern Irish dimension at the time.
0 -
No, just the latest staging post in his attempt to become the Piers Morgan for the upper classes.SandyRentool said:
Anything to do with his srlf-confessed use and supply of cocaine?kinabalu said:Toby Young is trending!
0 -
Just psyched up to have a look. Appears that he is winding up the LGBT community again. You know Tobes. He's a card.SandyRentool said:Anything to do with his srlf-confessed use and supply of cocaine?
0 -
Rents in Scotland rose at the same type rate as the rest of GB with the fees, you can see a comparison on figure 3.MattW said:
I'd say that RCS has it here.FF43 said:
If renting is seen as the norm, politicians will seek policies that are favourable to renters, as already happens in Germany, where there are average market price rent controls and security of tenancies.rcs1000 said:Having just caught up with (some of) the earlier threat, and in particular how to ensure affordable housing. A few thoughts:
3. There are too few council tax bands, especially at the top end. This also discourages trading down. You should be able to save money in terms of council tax by going from a large house to a smaller one, or to an apartment.
4. Don't think that renting is automatically bad and owning good. Think in terms of overall property supply. Many of the proposals from government of all colours have worked to discourage people renting properties out, which has the knock on effect of discouraging construction, as it is a supply of additional properties for sale.
5. Remember the mantra: things that improve the efficiency of the market (i.e. encourage better utilisation) are good.
Politicians have not got a clue what is favourable to renters. The pillock Brokenshire cannot even get it right that the PRS is shrinking quite rapidly.
Policies that politicians think are favourable to renters are often nothing of the kind, and are in practice just populist or dancing to lobbyist tunes.
The Tenant Fees Act that came into force last week is a Dog's Breakfast, which will have multiple negative impacts.
In practice rents will rise, just as they did in Scotland (*), and the implementation is such a mess that they have seriously damaged Deposit Protection, undermined pet tenancies (which has been increasing significantly), tilted the expenses against long-term tenants, and all kind of costs are now going to be averaged across all tenants rather than attributed to those who caused them.
But this is about politics, not helping people.
The German regulation regime would have allowed rents to increase far faster here than has happened over the last 2 decades.
* Just in case, here are the Scottish Govt statistics for PRS rent increases. Since the fee ban in 2012 in Scotland, all numbers have significantly beat CPI inflation, which is just about 10%.
Ref:https://www.gov.scot/publications/private-sector-rent-statistics-2010-2018/pages/8/
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/indexofprivatehousingrentalprices/2015-10-290 -
I'm fairly sure it's also the Irish border.StuartDickson said:
Yes, it is now clear that despite droning on endlessly about the “Irish Border” (it isn’t: it is the British Border in Ireland)williamglenn said:
It’s actually another example of the way May successfully shaped the narrative, even before she became reliant on the DUP. Her early ‘precious union’ rhetoric and insistence that there could be no bespoke Brexit solution for each part of the UK contradicted Brexiteers like Mervyn King who advocated an Irish Sea border right at the beginning, and said it would be one of the positives of Brexit.FrankBooth said:I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
It’s quite likely that May was only thinking of thwarting the SNP and hadn’t fully considered the Northern Irish dimension at the time.0 -
You may be surprised to learn that there are plenty of people who neither went to university nor grew up in a city; I'm one.noneoftheabove said:
Out of interest what is the social background of the people who have never been offered drugs? I find it hard to believe many of them can have been at university or grown up in a city.NickPalmer said:
Jonathan's deeper point (I think) is valid, though - there's a real difference in how the middle classes treat experiments with drugs (amused tolerance, not a hindrance to being PM) and the devastating effect that a drugs charge can have on someone at the bottom of the pile (criminal record, serious employment difficulty).eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
It's something that is massively affected by your circle of friends. I know people who have never been even offered drugs, let alone refused, and people who find that incredible, like never having drunk coffee. As a society we are seriously mixed up about the whole area.0 -
@MattW talking utter rubbish. I rented until relatively recently and the tenant fee ban would have been a god send.
I bet you are a landlord.0 -
The Irish Border is the beach. The line you see on modern maps was unilaterally drawn by Westminster and Whitehall a century ago.ydoethur said:
I'm fairly sure it's also the Irish border.StuartDickson said:
Yes, it is now clear that despite droning on endlessly about the “Irish Border” (it isn’t: it is the British Border in Ireland)williamglenn said:
It’s actually another example of the way May successfully shaped the narrative, even before she became reliant on the DUP. Her early ‘precious union’ rhetoric and insistence that there could be no bespoke Brexit solution for each part of the UK contradicted Brexiteers like Mervyn King who advocated an Irish Sea border right at the beginning, and said it would be one of the positives of Brexit.FrankBooth said:I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
It’s quite likely that May was only thinking of thwarting the SNP and hadn’t fully considered the Northern Irish dimension at the time.0 -
This adds nothing to the conversation. What a pointless comment.StuartDickson said:
The Irish Border is the beach. The line you see on modern maps was unilaterally drawn by Westminster and Whitehall a century ago.ydoethur said:
I'm fairly sure it's also the Irish border.StuartDickson said:
Yes, it is now clear that despite droning on endlessly about the “Irish Border” (it isn’t: it is the British Border in Ireland)williamglenn said:
It’s actually another example of the way May successfully shaped the narrative, even before she became reliant on the DUP. Her early ‘precious union’ rhetoric and insistence that there could be no bespoke Brexit solution for each part of the UK contradicted Brexiteers like Mervyn King who advocated an Irish Sea border right at the beginning, and said it would be one of the positives of Brexit.FrankBooth said:I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
It’s quite likely that May was only thinking of thwarting the SNP and hadn’t fully considered the Northern Irish dimension at the time.0 -
Maybe so. Point is, renters see these controls as valuable and so politicians are happy to provide. Renters are getting to be a more important demographic than those that invest in property. All thanks to the changing housing market which puts property ownership out of reach for many people.MattW said:
I'd say that RCS has it here.FF43 said:
If renting is seen as the norm, politicians will seek policies that are favourable to renters, as already happens in Germany, where there are average market price rent controls and security of tenancies.rcs1000 said:Having just caught up with (some of) the earlier threat, and in particular how to ensure affordable housing. A few thoughts:
3. There are too few council tax bands, especially at the top end. This also discourages trading down. You should be able to save money in terms of council tax by going from a large house to a smaller one, or to an apartment.
4. Don't think that renting is automatically bad and owning good. Think in terms of overall property supply. Many of the proposals from government of all colours have worked to discourage people renting properties out, which has the knock on effect of discouraging construction, as it is a supply of additional properties for sale.
5. Remember the mantra: things that improve the efficiency of the market (i.e. encourage better utilisation) are good.
Politicians have not got a clue what is favourable to renters. The pillock Brokenshire cannot even get it right that the PRS is shrinking quite rapidly.
Policies that politicians think are favourable to renters are often nothing of the kind, and are in practice just populist or dancing to lobbyist tunes.
The Tenant Fees Act that came into force last week is a Dog's Breakfast, which will have multiple negative impacts.
In practice rents will rise, just as they did in Scotland (*), and the implementation is such a mess that they have seriously damaged Deposit Protection, undermined pet tenancies (which has been increasing significantly), tilted the expenses against long-term tenants, and all kind of costs are now going to be averaged across all tenants rather than attributed to those who caused them.
But this is about politics, not helping people.
The German regulation regime would have allowed rents to increase far faster here than has happened over the last 2 decades.
* Just in case, here are the Scottish Govt statistics for PRS rent increases. Since the fee ban in 2012 in Scotland, all numbers have significantly beat CPI inflation, which is just about 10%.
Ref:https://www.gov.scot/publications/private-sector-rent-statistics-2010-2018/pages/8/0 -
I did both and live in a London suburb, but have no idea where to buy cocaine or even cannabis.Benpointer said:
You may be surprised to learn that there are plenty of people who neither went to university nor grew up in a city; I'm one.noneoftheabove said:
Out of interest what is the social background of the people who have never been offered drugs? I find it hard to believe many of them can have been at university or grown up in a city.NickPalmer said:
Jonathan's deeper point (I think) is valid, though - there's a real difference in how the middle classes treat experiments with drugs (amused tolerance, not a hindrance to being PM) and the devastating effect that a drugs charge can have on someone at the bottom of the pile (criminal record, serious employment difficulty).eek said:
Rather more difficult if the defendant says they did it and then in court pleads not guilty....ydoethur said:
That seems a bit unlikely given a 'guilty' plea is usually sufficient to lock someone up.Richard_Tyndall said:
Isn't it more the case that a prosecution based on someone claiming they did something but with no other evidence would be bound to fail?Jonathan said:It’s interesting to know that possession of Cocaine no longer carries a fine or custodial sentence under certain circumstances. All you have to do is run for Tory leader.
It's something that is massively affected by your circle of friends. I know people who have never been even offered drugs, let alone refused, and people who find that incredible, like never having drunk coffee. As a society we are seriously mixed up about the whole area.
Nick Palmer is probably right: it depends on your circle of friends, and class. Probably like most people, I am not much exercised by people using drugs but am appalled by the social costs in crime and violence.1 -
Even the Irish themselves recognise NI isn't part of their country.Gallowgate said:
This adds nothing to the conversation. What a pointless comment.StuartDickson said:
The Irish Border is the beach. The line you see on modern maps was unilaterally drawn by Westminster and Whitehall a century ago.ydoethur said:
I'm fairly sure it's also the Irish border.StuartDickson said:
Yes, it is now clear that despite droning on endlessly about the “Irish Border” (it isn’t: it is the British Border in Ireland)williamglenn said:
It’s actually another example of the way May successfully shaped the narrative, even before she became reliant on the DUP. Her early ‘precious union’ rhetoric and insistence that there could be no bespoke Brexit solution for each part of the UK contradicted Brexiteers like Mervyn King who advocated an Irish Sea border right at the beginning, and said it would be one of the positives of Brexit.FrankBooth said:I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
It’s quite likely that May was only thinking of thwarting the SNP and hadn’t fully considered the Northern Irish dimension at the time.0 -
I think you will find that in 1999 Ireland amended its constitution (specifically, by rewriting Article 2) to draw a distinction between the 'island of Ireland' and 'the Irish nation' to formally exclude Northern Ireland from the latter.StuartDickson said:
The Irish Border is the beach. The line you see on modern maps was unilaterally drawn by Westminster and Whitehall a century ago.ydoethur said:
I'm fairly sure it's also the Irish border.StuartDickson said:
Yes, it is now clear that despite droning on endlessly about the “Irish Border” (it isn’t: it is the British Border in Ireland)williamglenn said:
It’s actually another example of the way May successfully shaped the narrative, even before she became reliant on the DUP. Her early ‘precious union’ rhetoric and insistence that there could be no bespoke Brexit solution for each part of the UK contradicted Brexiteers like Mervyn King who advocated an Irish Sea border right at the beginning, and said it would be one of the positives of Brexit.FrankBooth said:I'm surprised the NI Unionist support has held so long. The Irish Sea border has been unthinkable. Why? What about an NI referendum on the matter?
Let's face it NI is a foreign place to many Brits. It absorbs a considerable public subsidy - as big as net EU contributions. As soon as there is a hung parliament their leaders act like extortionists. I can't believe there is the sort of sympathy on the mainland that there was in the days of Trimble and Hume and the IRA. We now have the DUP and Sinn Fein.
It’s quite likely that May was only thinking of thwarting the SNP and hadn’t fully considered the Northern Irish dimension at the time.
Therefore, it is now the Irish border.0
