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+1 it looks very childishTOPPING said:
Not watched an episode.DavidL said:It has always been evident that PB is not going to pass any polling company's standards for a broadly equivalent sample representative of the general population but I am surprised at the number of non watchers of GOT declaring themselves this morning.
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Joe Ashton denies it.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.
He was only asking for directions0 -
He certainly topped a lot if rumours were to be believedSean_F said:
The late Peter Morrison would have had topped that.Mexicanpete said:
It's like bad boy top trumps. Johnson the serial philanderer and recommender of punishment beatings is raised by coke-head Gove. What next?HYUFD said:
Johnson can get away with it as in the words of Alan Clarke if anyone asked if he had skeletons he said 'cupboards full' and everyone expected it. Gove though looks like a swot so it might actually even add some colour to his campaignSouthamObserver said:What everyone knows is that the skeletons in Johnson’s cupboards are more numerous than anyone else’s. If Gove doing coke is headline news, prepare for serious incoming on the next, and probably the last, Tory PM.
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Tell them it is ok now, old Rupe no longer owns Sky.Theuniondivvie said:
Worth it, though the universal acclaim is encouraging my own snobbery to make me doubt myself. Oddly the one Chernobyl obsessive I know hasn't watched it because he refuses to take Sky due to the Murdoch connection.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve not watched Game Of Thrones either, but I don’t watch much TV anyway. I could write a long list of acclaimed TV shows I’ve not seen.
I’m thinking I might make the effort to look at Chernobyl.
Or would they prefer this.
Russia makes own version of Chernobyl disaster series, blaming CIA agent for nuclear explosion following success of Sky Original mini-series
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/furious-russia-makes-own-version-of-chernobyl-disaster-blaming-cia-agent-for-nuclear-disaster-a4161766.html0 -
May got the Withdrawal Agreement on with the EU and it is still there and she only took over once Brexit has been voted for having backed Remain. Brown was at the helm when we spent too much and the city was under regulatedMaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
You added an extra "s" therekle4 said:
Its because PB is full of snobsDavidL said:It has always been evident that PB is not going to pass any polling company's standards for a broadly equivalent sample representative of the general population but I am surprised at the number of non watchers of GOT declaring themselves this morning. It has been the biggest thing on TV in many years and introduced several phrases into general discourse.
Tyrion Lannister was the best. A constant source of amusement and wisdom. For example: "“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favour.” Something many politicians could learn from.
More to the tastes on here is: “A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone if it is to keep its edge. That's why I read so much Jon Snow.”
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Gives babies a break, at least.Roger said:Parris on Boris
".....Incompetence is not funny. Policy vacuum is not funny. Administrative sloth is not funny. Breaking promises is not funny. A careless disregard for the truth is not funny. Advising old mates planning to beat somebody up is not funny. Abortions and gagging orders are not funny. Creeping ambition in a jester’s cap is not funny. Vacuity posing as merriment, cynicism posing as savviness, a wink and smile covering for betrayal . . . these things are not funny".
(Well they're QUITE funny)
....and all because Boris called the repeal of section 28 "appalling" according to Dominic Lawson.
There's nothing quite like watching Tories eat each other (if you'll excuse the metaphor)0 -
I think, as in the Labour contest this talk of entryism is for the large part absolubte gash. The memberships always wanted Boris and they always wanted Corbyn, certainly for Labour's part more than their MPs ever knew.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.1 -
Tories so having been crying out for more regulation of the city ...HYUFD said:
May got the Withdrawal Agreement on with the EU and it is still there and she only took over once Brexit has been voted for having backed Remain. Brown was at the helm when we spent too much and the city was under regulatedMaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal0 -
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3511936/DOMINIC-LAWSON-betrayed-Boris-like-t-help-forgiving-him.htmlRoger said:Parris on Boris
".....Incompetence is not funny. Policy vacuum is not funny. Administrative sloth is not funny. Breaking promises is not funny. A careless disregard for the truth is not funny. Advising old mates planning to beat somebody up is not funny. Abortions and gagging orders are not funny. Creeping ambition in a jester’s cap is not funny. Vacuity posing as merriment, cynicism posing as savviness, a wink and smile covering for betrayal . . . these things are not funny".
(Well they're QUITE funny)
....and all because Boris called the repeal of section 28 "appalling" according to Dominic Lawson.
There's nothing quite like watching Tories eat each other (if you'll excuse the metaphor)
(Cont....Dominic Lawson at his worst)0 -
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.0 -
rottenborough said:
"we may well be heading for unchartered electoral waters."
Good heavens. Who would have thought of that before Curtice mentioned it?0 -
Agreed, it looks like Boris v Gove or Hunt to the membership and Boris wins.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.
Raab as you say will get to the last 4 on a No Deal ticket but no further, be knocked out and then most of his backers transfer to Boris so Boris then likely comes top with MPs and it is between Gove and Hunt as to who faces Boris in the runoff0 -
I think the membership's default vote is for Boris, yes, but the same members were ready to make David Davis leader in 2005. The longer term members I know are open to voting for any candidate who will definitely leave the EU, I expect the entryists would only vote for Boris or Raab regardless of the merits of the other candidate.Pulpstar said:
I think, as in the Labour contest this talk of entryism is for the large part absolubte gash. The memberships always wanted Boris and they always wanted Corbyn, certainly for Labour's part more than their MPs ever knew.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.0 -
Hasn’t this been in train for a while - notice for an EGM, etcAlastairMeeks said:The move on Dominic Grieve is oddly timed. It’s as though the hardline Leavers are determined to make it as difficult as possible for the next Conservative leader to be the next Prime Minister.
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Hypocrisy abounds with the Tories , recreational if they are doing it but criminal if you are a pleb and unable to understand the consequences.Jonathan said:If you’re not a middle class, middle aged Tory candidate possession of Cocaine can carry a 51 week sentence, the least you can get away with is a fine and a criminal record. Just saying.
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...any advance on arseholes?malcolmg said:
and arseholesTheuniondivvie said:
Not to mention a sufficiency of c*nts.AlastairMeeks said:I was going to say that there aren’t enough tits. And then I realised that British politics has more than enough tits already.
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That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.0 -
The city was overregulated, but it was done badly.HYUFD said:
May got the Withdrawal Agreement on with the EU and it is still there and she only took over once Brexit has been voted for having backed Remain. Brown was at the helm when we spent too much and the city was under regulatedMaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
Actually I was going ti vote AB until he backed austerity lite leaving only Jezza as anti auterity.Pulpstar said:
I think, as in the Labour contest this talk of entryism is for the large part absolubte gash. The memberships always wanted Boris and they always wanted Corbyn, certainly for Labour's part more than their MPs ever knew.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
For the true Rupe hater even an historical association is too much. My pal used to get the Morning Star delivered, so he might like the Russian version.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tell them it is ok now, old Rupe no longer owns Sky.Theuniondivvie said:
Worth it, though the universal acclaim is encouraging my own snobbery to make me doubt myself. Oddly the one Chernobyl obsessive I know hasn't watched it because he refuses to take Sky due to the Murdoch connection.AlastairMeeks said:I’ve not watched Game Of Thrones either, but I don’t watch much TV anyway. I could write a long list of acclaimed TV shows I’ve not seen.
I’m thinking I might make the effort to look at Chernobyl.
Or would they prefer this.
Russia makes own version of Chernobyl disaster series, blaming CIA agent for nuclear explosion following success of Sky Original mini-series
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/furious-russia-makes-own-version-of-chernobyl-disaster-blaming-cia-agent-for-nuclear-disaster-a4161766.html0 -
Mitigating the worst excesses of CapitalismHYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
Peter Lilley certainly didIanB2 said:
Tories so having been crying out for more regulation of the city ...HYUFD said:
May got the Withdrawal Agreement on with the EU and it is still there and she only took over once Brexit has been voted for having backed Remain. Brown was at the helm when we spent too much and the city was under regulatedMaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
They actually furtively watch it under the covers (as it were) but deny it in publickle4 said:
Its because PB is full of snobsDavidL said:It has always been evident that PB is not going to pass any polling company's standards for a broadly equivalent sample representative of the general population but I am surprised at the number of non watchers of GOT declaring themselves this morning. It has been the biggest thing on TV in many years and introduced several phrases into general discourse.
Tyrion Lannister was the best. A constant source of amusement and wisdom. For example: "“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favour.” Something many politicians could learn from.
More to the tastes on here is: “A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone if it is to keep its edge. That's why I read so much Jon Snow.”0 -
I thought "Game of Thrones" was a rehash of the Jacobite "rebellions" with a series finale completed a few weeks back referencing 1745.Gardenwalker said:I have never seen an episode of GoT, and gods willing, I never shall.
The new series takes us past the 2022 general election and the Jacobite Party/Dragons Alliance firing up the nation .... sadly with a scorched earth policy in LibDem seats !! ....
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If it is clear that the EU won't reopen negotiations and the Commons blocks No Deal I assume that the new PM will call a GE. If that proves to be the case are the Tories are going to run on a No Deal platform?HYUFD said:
May got the Withdrawal Agreement on with the EU and it is still there and she only took over once Brexit has been voted for having backed Remain. Brown was at the helm when we spent too much and the city was under regulatedMaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
Mr. Owls, the problem with capitalism is it has boom and bust, winners and losers. Socialism is much more consistent and better for equality too, with practically everyone losing out.
Mr. W, that's just a modern remake of Ludus Purpurae, the Game of the Purple which Romans played when contesting mastery of the empire.0 -
I'm only referring to his presence (under that name) on here, I hasten to add!Tabman said:
That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.0 -
Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"0 -
The financial crash was not Brown's -- unless you think Brown a financial genius who cleverly avoided the global financial crisis (catchphrase: which started in America) only to stumble at the last minute into a quite separate hole.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.
But it is David Cameron who is the worst prime minister since Lord North, whose unforced errors directly led to Brexit. Theresa May has played her cards badly but she was dealt a bad hand by Cameron.0 -
The greatest traitors as far as the Left is concerned are those erstwhile members of the working class who have made good.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
Add me to the list of folk who have never watched GoT
That sort of stuff doesn't appeal to me, and if I wanted to see nakedness there is no shortage of that on line, or so TSE tells me...0 -
What’s happened to Sean TTabman said:
That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.0 -
Mr. JohnL, Brown borrowed repeatedly during a boom, leading us into crisis management with a deficit, and designed the regulatory system which failed. Australia's regulations worked rather better, for example.0
-
I declare that I have watched every episode.Charles said:
They actually furtively watch it under the covers (as it were) but deny it in publickle4 said:
Its because PB is full of snobsDavidL said:It has always been evident that PB is not going to pass any polling company's standards for a broadly equivalent sample representative of the general population but I am surprised at the number of non watchers of GOT declaring themselves this morning. It has been the biggest thing on TV in many years and introduced several phrases into general discourse.
Tyrion Lannister was the best. A constant source of amusement and wisdom. For example: "“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favour.” Something many politicians could learn from.
More to the tastes on here is: “A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone if it is to keep its edge. That's why I read so much Jon Snow.”0 -
Morning stone cold losers of PB.
Waiting for a Con leadership expose involving cocaine AND hookers now!
0 -
Very good! - although I have never seen GoT either.
Interestingly, one of the biggest fans of the programme - Michael Gove - is in the news this morning admitting to a cocaine habit.
That will hardly go down well in the shires - but at least he don't lie.0 -
https://twitter.com/MichaelRosenYes/status/1137279388314214400kinabalu said:Very good! - although I have never seen GoT either.
Interestingly, one of the biggest fans of the programme - Michael Gove - is in the news this morning admitting to a cocaine habit.
That will hardly go down well in the shires - but at least he don't lie.0 -
Which part of America was Northern Rock in ?DecrepitJohnL said:
The financial crash was not Brown's -- unless you think Brown a financial genius who cleverly avoided the global financial crisis (catchphrase: which started in America) only to stumble at the last minute into a quite separate hole.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.
But it is David Cameron who is the worst prime minister since Lord North, whose unforced errors directly led to Brexit. Theresa May has played her cards badly but she was dealt a bad hand by Cameron.
It should be remembered that the UK was in recession six months before Lehmann went bankrupt.1 -
Weird to read about a Tory taking cocaine. Because it makes you self-obsessed, makes you think you know everything, makes you not give a shit about others. And so does taking cocaine.1
-
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"0 -
Tory leadership race is now Boris Johnson’s to lose as MPs back him over Brexit
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9247621/opinion-tory-leadership-race-boris-johnson/0 -
Exactly and hence those socially mobile former working class voters were also Thatcher's greatest supportersTOPPING said:
The greatest traitors as far as the Left is concerned are those erstwhile members of the working class who have made good.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
I think you're right.Pulpstar said:
I think, as in the Labour contest this talk of entryism is for the large part absolubte gash. The memberships always wanted Boris and they always wanted Corbyn, certainly for Labour's part more than their MPs ever knew.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.0 -
why did he leaveTabman said:
That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.0 -
I don't think that's a safe assumption. They might do it if the new PM gets a serious polling bounce, but otherwise Tory MPs won't want an election that's going to threaten their seats, especially the ones that thought they were safe.OllyT said:If it is clear that the EU won't reopen negotiations and the Commons blocks No Deal I assume that the new PM will call a GE. If that proves to be the case are the Tories are going to run on a No Deal platform?
The only option known option that might save their jobs is to vote for the deal, subject to a second referendum, which they will hope to win. Obviously no leadership candidate will mention this until they're safely in barricaded in number 10.0 -
Mr. Borough, it baffles and depresses me that someone as demonstrably incompetent as Boris has gotten the backing of MPs. Even naked self-interest should make them want a leader who won't be inept.
Still, maybe I'll be wrong. It has happened before.0 -
No, Corbyn is a Maoist and wants to ultimately destroy capitalism altogetherbigjohnowls said:
Mitigating the worst excesses of CapitalismHYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
I seem to recall he announced that arguing on here about Brexit was becoming too much for him and he needed some time away.kjohnw said:
What’s happened to Sean TTabman said:
That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.0 -
He is still very much alive. He got frightened that his social media outpourings here and on twitter, some of them made whilst perhaps under the influence of a refreshing glass of cold lemonade, were not necessarily to his advantage, so has disappeared from view.kjohnw said:
What’s happened to Sean TTabman said:
That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.0 -
It seems the Boris is incompetent reality has been priced in by MPs. They are desperate for "the magic" as Parris calls it in Times.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, it baffles and depresses me that someone as demonstrably incompetent as Boris has gotten the backing of MPs. Even naked self-interest should make them want a leader who won't be inept.
Still, maybe I'll be wrong. It has happened before.0 -
I suspect he did..... He was falling behind ....his promo was pants.... Boris was lauded for being a bounder...so Sarah came up with a cunning stunt.....kinabalu said:Very good! - although I have never seen GoT either.
Interestingly, one of the biggest fans of the programme - Michael Gove - is in the news this morning admitting to a cocaine habit.
That will hardly go down well in the shires - but at least he don't lie.0 -
Is he? I'm not sure Corbyn is anything in particular. His critics, including perhaps your good self, were right first time. Corbyn is no intellectual. Corbyn, to paraphrase Theresa May, is Corbyn.HYUFD said:
No, Corbyn is a Maoist and wants to ultimately destroy capitalism altogetherbigjohnowls said:
Mitigating the worst excesses of CapitalismHYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
Most likely yes but most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement.OllyT said:
If it is clear that the EU won't reopen negotiations and the Commons blocks No Deal I assume that the new PM will call a GE. If that proves to be the case are the Tories are going to run on a No Deal platform?HYUFD said:
May got the Withdrawal Agreement on with the EU and it is still there and she only took over once Brexit has been voted for having backed Remain. Brown was at the helm when we spent too much and the city was under regulatedMaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.
However it is not impossible Boris could leave the Withdrawal Agreement as is, remove even a temporary Customs Union from the future relationship for GB and screw the DUP and agree the backstop for NI with an aim ultimately to replace it with a technical solution and call an election to get a mandate for that.
Remember Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement on third reading and the Alliance not the DUP are growing in Northern Ireland and represent the median voter there0 -
By contrast much of the political establishment wants ** Britain to be more like London and London to be more like the rest of the world.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
But then the view of London from an Islington wine bar or a Notting Hill dinner party may be rather niche.
** Or at least that's the impression I get.1 -
I disagree and its Galloway who is the CatHYUFD said:
No, Corbyn is a Maoist and wants to ultimately destroy capitalism altogetherbigjohnowls said:
Mitigating the worst excesses of CapitalismHYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
McDonnell certainly is a Maoist and he is the real brains behind CorbynismDecrepitJohnL said:
Is he? I'm not sure Corbyn is anything in particular. His critics, including perhaps your good self, were right first time. Corbyn is no intellectual. Corbyn, to paraphrase Theresa May, is Corbyn.HYUFD said:
No, Corbyn is a Maoist and wants to ultimately destroy capitalism altogetherbigjohnowls said:
Mitigating the worst excesses of CapitalismHYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
Yes, but only when they turn into ... well you know the type.TOPPING said:The greatest traitors as far as the Left is concerned are those erstwhile members of the working class who have made good.
"I made it so anybody can. Just need to get off yer arse and put a shift in."
"Amount of tax I pay, it's daylight robbery, subsidizing all those lazy tossers."
"I worked my butt off for my dough. I can fucking spend it how I like."
"My kids don't know their born. Money I've spent on them. And look at em."
"Say what you like about the Tories. Least they have a clue."
Yuck.1 -
-
How Islington is seen by the rest of the UK outside London is about as niche as it comes.another_richard said:
By contrast much of the political establishment wants ** Britain to be more like London and London to be more like the rest of the world.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
But then the view of London from an Islington wine bar or a Notting Hill dinner party may be rather niche.
** Or at least that's the impression I get.
Do wine bars still exist?
0 -
Mr. Borough, then they're insane.
I like dragons. I'm aware they're fictional, however.0 -
The dissolution of the Union would, almost certainly, reduce the size of both the Commons and the Lords. And indeed Whitehall.RobD said:
Unless the Commons is set to reduce in size by 80 seats, no.StuartDickson said:
So Baxter is predicting the dissolution of the Union before the next GE?AndyJS said:New Electoral Calculus figures:
BRX 24.1%
Lab 22.7%
Con 18.7%
LD 18.3%
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
BRX 249
Lab 216
Con 54
LD 51
Sweet.
But no, I just thought it very odd that you failed to report which party would have more MPs than both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. Seems to be a trend to systematically remove the SNP from reports. Reminds me of those Chinese monkeys that refuse to see, hear and speak, but prefer to live in a fantasy world.0 -
Add in being from a minority background and they start chasing us with a noose...TOPPING said:
The greatest traitors as far as the Left is concerned are those erstwhile members of the working class who have made good.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn was a liberal he would back social mobility but he is not, Corbyn does not want to improve access to the capitalist class via social mobility, as a socialist and borderline Marxist Corbyn wants to destroy the capitalist class and ultimately become a largely state run economy, as McDonnell affirmed when he said 'overthrowing capitalism is his job'Tabman said:
My reading of this is that he's talking about Liberalism - enabling each individual to flourish (or not) according to their talent and effortHYUFD said:
Corbyn to replace social mobility with 'social justice' apparently ie socialismNickPalmer said:Labour is making a serious effort to move the discussion on from Brexit, with the obvious intention of making the Tories seem tediously preoccupied with it while we discuss everything else. I'm not sure if this will succeed, but in normal times this is the sort of thing that alienated centre-left people like Southam would I think find genuinely interesting (if properly fleshed out):
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/08/jeremy-corbyn-to-drop-social-mobility-as-labour-goal
Collectivism of the Corbynite kind is the antithesis of this. Something doesn't compute.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44189922/john-mcdonnell-says-overthrowing-capitalism-is-his-job0 -
Borrowing before the crisis was not high by historical or international standards.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JohnL, Brown borrowed repeatedly during a boom, leading us into crisis management with a deficit, and designed the regulatory system which failed. Australia's regulations worked rather better, for example.
What worked for Australia was digging very big holes in the middle of the country and riding a commodities boom. Same with Canada.0 -
So when do we find out if self-described 'Brexit Hard Man' Steve Baker is hard enough to run for Conservative leader ?
Or is he only hard enough to whine from the sidelines ?1 -
bigjohnowls said:
Weird to read about a Tory taking cocaine. Because it makes you self-obsessed, makes you think you know everything, makes you not give a shit about others. And so does taking cocaine.
0 -
Morning Macl.malcolmg said:
why did he leaveTabman said:
That's very sad to hearTheuniondivvie said:
I'm sure SeanT would be able to suggest someone that fits the bill. Such a shame he's no longer around.MarqueeMark said:I'm holding out for a Tory contender who admits to having done Ketamine.
In a brothel.
I was told Sean has gone all Hollywood on us and was worried about all the bullshit he's posted on here over the past decade coming out so got Smithson The Younger to delete his posting history. 0 -
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
0 -
One thing that tends to get overlooked in discussions about Conservatism is the remarkably unConservative decision to join the EU in the first place. What was that but a truly radical break with the country's traditions, in the name of ideology?1
-
Mr. JohnL, that doesn't explain Australia's financial sector being more robust than ours.
Borrowing was unnecessary during a boom. It made our position worse when the bust, which Brown thought he'd magicked away, arrived.1 -
Given that Islington was where Blair lived and made his deal with Brown in a local restaurant and where the MPs are Corbyn and Thornberry there is some justification for how Islington is seen by the rest of the UK.SouthamObserver said:
How Islington is seen by the rest of the UK outside London is about as niche as it comes.another_richard said:
By contrast much of the political establishment wants ** Britain to be more like London and London to be more like the rest of the world.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
But then the view of London from an Islington wine bar or a Notting Hill dinner party may be rather niche.
** Or at least that's the impression I get.
Do wine bars still exist?0 -
I asked the question because it would seem the only logical thing to do yet they would be stupid to do it. I agree with you in that there will be some sharp manoeuvring from whoever wins the poisoned chalice next month and the party membership are not going to be happy.edmundintokyo said:
I don't think that's a safe assumption. They might do it if the new PM gets a serious polling bounce, but otherwise Tory MPs won't want an election that's going to threaten their seats, especially the ones that thought they were safe.OllyT said:If it is clear that the EU won't reopen negotiations and the Commons blocks No Deal I assume that the new PM will call a GE. If that proves to be the case are the Tories are going to run on a No Deal platform?
The only option known option that might save their jobs is to vote for the deal, subject to a second referendum, which they will hope to win. Obviously no leadership candidate will mention this until they're safely in barricaded in number 10.
Under those circumstances Farage will still have a strong betrayal message so I think we are heading for a second vote rather than a GE and have felt so for some time. Kicking it back to the people seems the only viable option left.0 -
Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.0 -
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"0 -
I guess hugging a lazy stereotype close is much more comforting than making the effort to embrace reality. But when you’re racing whippets maybe there’s no time to do more ;-)another_richard said:
Given that Islington was where Blair lived and made his deal with Brown in a local restaurant and where the MPs are Corbyn and Thornberry there is some justification for how Islington is seen by the rest of the UK.SouthamObserver said:
How Islington is seen by the rest of the UK outside London is about as niche as it comes.another_richard said:
By contrast much of the political establishment wants ** Britain to be more like London and London to be more like the rest of the world.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
But then the view of London from an Islington wine bar or a Notting Hill dinner party may be rather niche.
** Or at least that's the impression I get.
Do wine bars still exist?
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Mr. Dickson, MPs should look at lootboxes in videogames. Not in my sort of genre, but I know enough to view such practices askance.0
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I wondered about that too. On balance I reckon he fessed up to get ahead of a story that he knew was coming out anyway.Roger said:I suspect he did..... He was falling behind ....his promo was pants.... Boris was lauded for being a bounder...so Sarah came up with a cunning stunt.....
Certainly it won't be a case of mere disinterested honesty. I was just trying to lever in the Eric Clapton song ref.
Perhaps what we have here is an example of when a leader fails the next one is chosen to be as different as possible. To be the ultimate contrast.
So, the most 'naughty' thing that Mrs May ever did (apart from triggering article 50 without a plan) was to run unsupervised through a field of wheat.
We go from that to Boris Johnson, who does 6 naughty things before breakfast - and that's when he's on his own.0 -
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/11368933065399296010 -
We never had a 'boom' - we had a credit bubble fuelling house price rises and increasing retail expenditure.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JohnL, that doesn't explain Australia's financial sector being more robust than ours.
Borrowing was unnecessary during a boom. It made our position worse when the bust, which Brown thought he'd magicked away, arrived.
The last 'boom' in the UK had Nigel Lawson's name attached to it and fizzled out in 1990.0 -
I think he got to 15 at one point.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
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Mr. Felix, plus Don't Know is now better than the Conservative and Labour leaders' combined score.0
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Yep, Esther McVey loves it.another_richard said:
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
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0
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Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
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Indeed - and notably quiet on this issue is the Labour Party leadership - I wonder why that might be..........SouthamObserver said:
Yep, Esther McVey loves it.another_richard said:
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"0 -
I'm not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are required to put Boris in place for a couple of Parliaments with healthy majorities either.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"1 -
I agree about Boris - don't know about Gove. I know you won't agree but Ruth's achievement in leading the Tories to second place in Scotland is truly one of the brightest features of the party's fortunes in decades.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.0 -
You can read the book(s) and enjoy the traitorous intrigue without the visual stimulation.SandyRentool said:Add me to the list of folk who have never watched GoT
That sort of stuff doesn't appeal to me, and if I wanted to see nakedness there is no shortage of that on line, or so TSE tells me...0 -
Along those lines, it's perhaps worth bearing in mind Nostradamus's prophecy (Century 13, quatrain 105). A rough translation from the early-modern French would be:
"When two fair-haired brothers born in the New City across the Western Sea hold sway in the lands of the English tongue, the children of Albion shall gnaw on bones."1 -
I don't think anyone can repeat Cameron's trick of pretending to be a eurosceptic this time round.MaxPB said:
I think the membership's default vote is for Boris, yes, but the same members were ready to make David Davis leader in 2005. The longer term members I know are open to voting for any candidate who will definitely leave the EU, I expect the entryists would only vote for Boris or Raab regardless of the merits of the other candidate.Pulpstar said:
I think, as in the Labour contest this talk of entryism is for the large part absolubte gash. The memberships always wanted Boris and they always wanted Corbyn, certainly for Labour's part more than their MPs ever knew.MaxPB said:
If May had done the honourable thing and resigned when she should have those entryists wouldn't be eligible to vote. She's been a failure many times over in many different ways. Easily the worst post war PM, worse than Brown who was the grandfather of much of this with his financial crash.Gardenwalker said:
Given that the great balance of outstanding voters are “three timers”, it seems highly probable that Raab is out - even if all of the ERGers haven’t declared.HYUFD said:Interesting that on the chart posted on TSE's thread last night it is now Raab emerging as the No Deal Brexit candidate and not Boris. A majority of MPs supporting Raab have never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement or only voted for it once while at least half of MPs backing Boris voted for the Deal all 3 times and a majority at least twice.
https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1137043826479161344?s=20
Hunt and Hancock have the strongest Deal support with a majority of their MP supporters voting for the Withdrawal Agreement all three times and the remainder voting for it twice.
Gyimah has the strongest Remain support though as all his MP supporters voted against the Withdrawal Agreement every time in order to push for EUref2
One assumes that Raab’s votes will transfer to Boris rather than Gove or Hunt.
Then, the membership - not least the tens of thousands of Brexity entryists - will see Boris through to the leadership.
Barring “events”, he’s a shoo-in.1 -
Its Labour who they vote for.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, Esther McVey loves it.another_richard said:
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
But I suspect there's a wide range of people who would like to hear less about homosexuality on the one side and Islamic social conservatism on the other.
Ditto with the Trans / TERF conflict.
People who might be described as 'instinctively conservative'.2 -
And it takes all that money from the poor and every week creates a new rich person. There is some interesting research awaited on the long run impact on wealth distributionStuartDickson said:
Indeed, Thatcher was the beginning of the end. She was not a conservative, she was a revolutionary.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, Theresa May should have been that leader. Think back to her JAMs speech. Trouble is, while she might have been a good Conservative, she was a lousy politician. We might one day look back and see we left the EU with what looks suspiciously like May's WA, and pay for social care with May's dementia tax, under a different name of course. But Theresa May far better represented the old Tory party in the country than did the Notting Hill trustafarians around Cameron or the economic radicals round Thatcher.rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
There are many examples of her animosity towards conservatism, but funnily enough one of her very late introductions sticks in my mind: the National Lottery. She, quite rightly, resisted the suggestion for a decade, but caved in in the end. The Big State, week in week out fleeces the absolute poorest people in society. It is a National Disgrace and a National Shame. Of course charlatan Blair loved it too.
A true conservative would abolish the National Lottery, ban the gambling industry from advertising, and protect the vulnerable from one of society’s most persistent evils.0 -
felix said:
Indeed - and notably quiet on this issue is the Labour Party leadership - I wonder why that might be..........SouthamObserver said:
Yep, Esther McVey loves it.another_richard said:
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"
Wes Streeting to refer fellow Lab MP Godsiff with formal complaint to Labour Partyfelix said:
Indeed - and notably quiet on this issue is the Labour Party leadership - I wonder why that might be..........SouthamObserver said:
Yep, Esther McVey loves it.another_richard said:
There's some extreme social conservatism taking place in Birmingham currently.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - I am not sure places like Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, Brighton, Norwich and Birmingham are instinctively conservative. Or maybe they count as university towns?rottenborough said:Goodwin in Telegraph:
"One of the peculiarities of Britain is that once you step outside of London and the university towns this remains an instinctively conservative nation. Yet at the same time it has a Conservative Party that is afraid of being conservative."
"Yet winning back these voters would not be hard. It requires a Conservative Party to do what it says on the tin"1 -
Fraser Nelson is trying to fly the idea that Boris isn't so unpopular in Scotland, & that people suggesting he is are trying to do so on the basis that he's a posh Englishman rather than because he's a lying, self seeking arsehole.StuartDickson said:
Totally agree.felix said:
That must be close to his lowest ever score. And yes it is very significant.rottenborough said:Based on OGH's view that leadership rates are super important. These numbers of Jezza should mean he gets nowhere near Downing Street:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1136893306539929601
And if you think that’s bad, just take a look at Richard Leonard’s ratings in Scotland.
All recent Conservative (London) leaders have had appalling approval ratings in Scotland, but I strongly suspect that Boris or Gove would break all the records.
Patronising git.0 -
I think he was actually channelling Game of Thrones.....Chris said:Along those lines, it's perhaps worth bearing in mind Nostradamus's prophecy (Century 13, quatrain 105). A rough translation from the early-modern French would be:
"When two fair-haired brothers born in the New City across the Western Sea hold sway in the lands of the English tongue, the children of Albion shall gnaw on bones."0 -
So will one of the Tory leadership candidates feel the need to make a false confession in one of the Sunday papers just to stay in the game?0
