politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If the betting markets have this right Peterborough could have
Comments
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Brexit Party is BNP 3.0Scott_P said:0 -
Electric cars, whilst growing fast, are still less than 1% of new sales in the UK.TGOHF said:ICE are the past - you can prop up these plants for a few more years but ultimately they have no future.
Bigger question is how to bring electrical vehicle manufacturing to the Uk.
It's a bit early to be calling time on ICE car factories...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/07/consumers-apply-the-brakes-to-uk-new-car-sales0 -
Which is why Brexit needs to happen sooner rather than later.nico67 said:If you had a difficult investment decision to make .
Do you gamble with that in the UK with such huge uncertainty and the threat of tariffs and supply delays .
Brexit is one factor that can tip a decision the wrong way for UK workers .
Regardless of the reasons for Ford the current climate is not condusive to making long term business investments in the UK if your main export market is the EU.
Then we can get our big fat bribes out to attract investment to an attractive environment - Thatcherism 2.0.
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A few reflections on the Danish election yesterday:
The centre-left bloc got there and without needing the support of the Alternative with the Social Democrat, Radikale, SF and Enhedslisten getting 91 seats and a majority on their own. It wasn't all plain sailing with the Social Democrats again under-achieving on some of their pre-election polling and historically, 2019 is another poor result for them. Nonetheless, Mette Fredricksen will become Prime Minister though with confident and assertive partners it may not be as simple as it seems.
On the centre-right, paradoxically, Venstre did surprisingly well (though not if you had followed the EU elections) and moved forward in votes and seats. The problem was their partners had an awful night with the Dansk Folkeparti dropping 21 seats and the Liberal Alliance 9 seats. True, the Conservatives made some headway but the centre-right drop in seats was just too great and they've ended up at 75.
Venstre's position as the leading centre-right party was confirmed with them having 43 seats and it's not escaped my notice that a "Grand Coalition" of Social Democrats and Venstre would also have 91 seats - a thought for another day.0 -
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.0 -
Some will be split between this lotsurbiton19 said:
Er… who's getting the other 10% ?HYUFD said:
My predictionMarqueeMark said:Peterborough prediction: the only way Brexit Party don't win is if the Tories put in a surprisingly strong showing. Given they will have been working this seat for months ahead of the recall petition and the recall petition itself as a potential gain, I suspect they will deliver on the upside....
Four parties in the twenties? Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber '92 anyone?
Brexit Party 35%, LDs 20%, Labour 18%, Tories 10%, Greens 5%, UKIP 1%, CUK 1%
- Christian Peoples Alliance: Tom Rogers
- Common Good: Remain In The EU: Dick Rodgers
- English Democrats: Stephen Goldspink
- Independent: Andrew Moore
- Independent: Bobby Smith
- Monster Raving Loony: Alan "Howling Laud" Hope
- Renew: Peter Ward
- SDP: Patrick O'Flynn
- UK European Union Party: Pierre Kirk
But it'll be way less than 10%.0 -
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.0 -
Create crap economic conditions and then bribe companies to create jobs? You have more in common with Arthur Scargill than Thatcher.TGOHF said:
Which is why Brexit needs to happen sooner rather than later.nico67 said:If you had a difficult investment decision to make .
Do you gamble with that in the UK with such huge uncertainty and the threat of tariffs and supply delays .
Brexit is one factor that can tip a decision the wrong way for UK workers .
Regardless of the reasons for Ford the current climate is not condusive to making long term business investments in the UK if your main export market is the EU.
Then we can get our big fat bribes out to attract investment to an attractive environment - Thatcherism 2.0.0 -
I suppose Ford shedding 5000 jobs in Germany and closing a plant there is due to Brexit as well? And VW? And Daimler? All with job losses announced in Germany so far this year?Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.0 -
I can guarantee that no Scottish car plants will be impacted by Brexit malc.Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.
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Dylan - so many great lyrics it is hard to select any one over the other. I bet Theresa May was tempted by a few during the state visit. "You got a lot of nerve, to say you are my friend".0
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Works for your beloved Ireland william..williamglenn said:
Create crap economic conditions and then bribe companies to create jobs? You have more in common with Arthur Scargill than Thatcher.TGOHF said:
Which is why Brexit needs to happen sooner rather than later.nico67 said:If you had a difficult investment decision to make .
Do you gamble with that in the UK with such huge uncertainty and the threat of tariffs and supply delays .
Brexit is one factor that can tip a decision the wrong way for UK workers .
Regardless of the reasons for Ford the current climate is not condusive to making long term business investments in the UK if your main export market is the EU.
Then we can get our big fat bribes out to attract investment to an attractive environment - Thatcherism 2.0.
0 -
So now you want to join the Eurozone?TGOHF said:
Works for your beloved Ireland william..williamglenn said:
Create crap economic conditions and then bribe companies to create jobs? You have more in common with Arthur Scargill than Thatcher.TGOHF said:
Which is why Brexit needs to happen sooner rather than later.nico67 said:If you had a difficult investment decision to make .
Do you gamble with that in the UK with such huge uncertainty and the threat of tariffs and supply delays .
Brexit is one factor that can tip a decision the wrong way for UK workers .
Regardless of the reasons for Ford the current climate is not condusive to making long term business investments in the UK if your main export market is the EU.
Then we can get our big fat bribes out to attract investment to an attractive environment - Thatcherism 2.0.0 -
Would some jobs be safe? YesMarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Would some jobs be at risk but still ongoing for a further period? Yes
Would some jobs still have been lost anyway if we voted remain? Yes
Will more jobs go when/if we actually Brexit? Yes0 -
I'm no second reffer but how does leaving the EU help the car industry, particularly the reintroduction of tariffs and so forth with the EU that would be present in a 'hard' brexit ?0
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You may ask the same about many other industries as well.Pulpstar said:I'm no second reffer but how does leaving the EU help the car industry, particularly the reintroduction of tariffs and so forth with the EU that would be present in a 'hard' brexit ?
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Try reading the article.MarqueeMark said:
Then enlighten us.Nigelb said:
They made an extraordinary effort for authenticity... and utterly failed to capture the nature of Soviet society.kle4 said:
Yes it does, but it will never be able to be, nor even should be, totally accurate, or else the drama would suffer from an override of complexity and detail, or just not be as effective a story.Nigelb said:
I pretty sure she does...Pulpstar said:
He realises he is reviewing a dramatisation and not a documentary, right ?Nigelb said:An interesting critique of the Chernobyl series:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/what-hbos-chernobyl-got-right-and-what-it-got-terribly-wrong
But like it or not, reality based drama shapes our views of history.
And the root cause of the disaster.0 -
Which was widely ridiculed at the time...Dura_Ace said:You don't really have to go a long way back. It's a copy of the logo Hillary (pbuh) used in 2015-6.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/hillary-clinton-logo-2016-presidential-campaign-riles-internet/story?id=30277034
There must be a moral in there somewhere ?
(Other than don't pick Hillary as your candidate.)0 -
It is so obvious that the reasons for the job losses are a mix of Brexit and other changes to the economy, yet the narrative for the black and white world of modern politics has to be that it is either/or not both together.Richard_Tyndall said:
I suppose Ford shedding 5000 jobs in Germany and closing a plant there is due to Brexit as well? And VW? And Daimler? All with job losses announced in Germany so far this year?Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.
This is becoming the end of the enlightenment, reason and reality does not matter, it is all about emotion to validate the religious belief system.0 -
0
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It is ridiculous to make international comparisons based on national averages.rottenborough said:Still bad, looks like around 40%
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1136575649957761024
I'm curious to see the figures for poverty if it was defined as 60% of European median rather than national median.0 -
In a world of no shit Sherlock, saying that the UK 'may fail to mount an operation like' Overlord/Neptune nowadays probably wins today's prize. I doubt a Dieppe is even within our capabilities...
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1136418713673097216
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Ireland have the same tax rates as the rest of the Eurozone ? It's a view.williamglenn said:
So now you want to join the Eurozone?TGOHF said:
Works for your beloved Ireland william..williamglenn said:
Create crap economic conditions and then bribe companies to create jobs? You have more in common with Arthur Scargill than Thatcher.TGOHF said:
Which is why Brexit needs to happen sooner rather than later.nico67 said:If you had a difficult investment decision to make .
Do you gamble with that in the UK with such huge uncertainty and the threat of tariffs and supply delays .
Brexit is one factor that can tip a decision the wrong way for UK workers .
Regardless of the reasons for Ford the current climate is not condusive to making long term business investments in the UK if your main export market is the EU.
Then we can get our big fat bribes out to attract investment to an attractive environment - Thatcherism 2.0.0 -
We really need to leave on as soft a Norway, CM, SM trade as possible. Leaving without a deal is obviously bad and staying in leads to a choice of Corbyn or Farage for next PM (The strong remain/Lib Dem vote is too concentrated under FPTP I fear and they're not the Dominic Grieve/David Laws party now anyway). I really do think any form of leaving at all spikes Farage's guns.JosiasJessop said:
You may ask the same about many other industries as well.Pulpstar said:I'm no second reffer but how does leaving the EU help the car industry, particularly the reintroduction of tariffs and so forth with the EU that would be present in a 'hard' brexit ?
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SaferMarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.0 -
Ford may have closed anyway, but without Brexit other inward investors would have created other manufacturing jobs in the same region. And before some economic illiterate replies that we have not seen as much inward investment as we do know, most of this is going to the property market and buying UK assets cheaply, not to investment in job creation.Recidivist said:
SaferMarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.1 -
I agree. Offer a referendum to choose between the Norway model and hard Brexit. It's not betrayal and Norway would win easily imo.Pulpstar said:
We really need to leave on as soft a Norway, CM, SM trade as possible. Leaving without a deal is obviously bad and staying in leads to a choice of Corbyn or Farage for next PM (The strong remain/Lib Dem vote is too concentrated under FPTP I fear and they're not the Dominic Grieve/David Laws party now anyway). I really do think any form of leaving at all spikes Farage's guns.JosiasJessop said:
You may ask the same about many other industries as well.Pulpstar said:I'm no second reffer but how does leaving the EU help the car industry, particularly the reintroduction of tariffs and so forth with the EU that would be present in a 'hard' brexit ?
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I think the wider issue with the car industry is that it has had a long-term boom with first one car households, then two car households and then multi-car households. We are now at the stage that there simply isn't any further room for organic growth (as opposed to replacing old cars).
The trend for multi-car households may also start to go backwards somewhat due to things like increased deployment of resident parking zones, increased road tax etc0 -
The would be safer. Personally the sneering tone from pro-Brexit armchair economists is exactly why support for Brexit is fading away like snow on a hot day.MarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
It is not that Brexit brings the Night army to Bridgend. It is the incremental economic decisions that erode our investment and undermine our global competitiveness, and that is exactly what is happening.
Several Tories think that if they don't enact Brexit they will be obliterated. In fact it is if they DO enact it, against the growing majority who oppose Brexit that will obliterate them.2 -
IME cars are also becoming more reliable - though I haven't seen figures for this. And this might mean we hang onto them or longer.GarethoftheVale2 said:I think the wider issue with the car industry is that it has had a long-term boom with first one car households, then two car households and then multi-car households. We are now at the stage that there simply isn't any further room for organic growth (as opposed to replacing old cars).
The trend for multi-car households may also start to go backwards somewhat due to things like increased deployment of resident parking zones, increased road tax etc
As an example,. some cars come new with seven or five year warranties.0 -
Agreed. And I find the use of the word poverty in the UK offensive. Relative poverty is simply not poverty. It is inequality, which should still be challenged and balanced with far far greater equality of opportunity than we have in the current system, but it is not poverty.Philip_Thompson said:
It is ridiculous to make international comparisons based on national averages.rottenborough said:Still bad, looks like around 40%
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1136575649957761024
I'm curious to see the figures for poverty if it was defined as 60% of European median rather than national median.
The 14 million who are apparently in poverty in the UK would typically be in the top 20% wealthiest globally.0 -
I'd agree with that, too.PeterC said:
I agree. Offer a referendum to choose between the Norway model and hard Brexit. It's not betrayal and Norway would win easily imo.Pulpstar said:
We really need to leave on as soft a Norway, CM, SM trade as possible. Leaving without a deal is obviously bad and staying in leads to a choice of Corbyn or Farage for next PM (The strong remain/Lib Dem vote is too concentrated under FPTP I fear and they're not the Dominic Grieve/David Laws party now anyway). I really do think any form of leaving at all spikes Farage's guns.JosiasJessop said:
You may ask the same about many other industries as well.Pulpstar said:I'm no second reffer but how does leaving the EU help the car industry, particularly the reintroduction of tariffs and so forth with the EU that would be present in a 'hard' brexit ?
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Yes. Looks like we are "stuck inside of No Deal with the (Tory) members views again".kinabalu said:Dylan - so many great lyrics it is hard to select any one over the other. I bet Theresa May was tempted by a few during the state visit. "You got a lot of nerve, to say you are my friend".
1 -
Could not agree more. Lord alone knows what the reaction would be if we had an actual recession. Not pleasant I would wager.noneoftheabove said:
It is so obvious that the reasons for the job losses are a mix of Brexit and other changes to the economy, yet the narrative for the black and white world of modern politics has to be that it is either/or not both together.Richard_Tyndall said:
I suppose Ford shedding 5000 jobs in Germany and closing a plant there is due to Brexit as well? And VW? And Daimler? All with job losses announced in Germany so far this year?Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.
This is becoming the end of the enlightenment, reason and reality does not matter, it is all about emotion to validate the religious belief system.0 -
That’s not what has been happening at all; why the hell do you think most former industrial areas voted to leave? The European development funds we pay into have been used to build roads to new factories in Eastern Europe.Fenman said:
Ford may have closed anyway, but without Brexit other inward investors would have created other manufacturing jobs in the same region.Recidivist said:
SaferMarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
0 -
We should also remember this; 'Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.' (SunTzu)DavidL said:
General Barrow of the USMC is credited with that in 1990 but I think it has been the key to the US military since the days of General Grant.Sean_F said:
IMHO, once you get the logistics right, you're already half way towards winning.DavidL said:Foxy said:
D Day was a materpiece of logistics, meticulous planning and co-ordinated action.Roger said:
I'm in the South of France trying to keep up with Brexit news. Pretty thin on the ground unless the plan is to bomb Barnier.matt said:Roger said:The jingoism on Radio 5 is completely overwhelming. Only broken up by somse sports news....
'Some English supporters have brought shame on the country by .....
......singing about German bombers....'
Well there's a surprise!
You have the option of not listening.
You don’t seem to be a natural R5 listener so I presume you needed a daily dose of moral outrage and superiority early today.
So nothing in common with Brexit...
I am looking forward to 5Live's effusive coverage of Operation Bagration on June 23rd, an even more decisive battle.
One of my favourite WW2 stories concerned German troops at Monte Casino who had been living on rats but counter attacked the US trenches taking control of sections. They found fresh cream cakes from Chicago. And surrendered.
One ex-US officer put it to me "Amateurs study tactics. Professionals study logistics."0 -
That’s a blow for Dominic Raab’s Brexit plan.Theuniondivvie said:In a world of no shit Sherlock, saying that the UK 'may fail to mount an operation like' Overlord/Neptune nowadays probably wins today's prize. I doubt a Dieppe is even within our capabilities...
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/11364187136730972160 -
But even more prevalent than previously and shows the calibre of the morons.brendan16 said:“Morning G, sign of the times and way England is heading. Worse to come I would think.”
English footie fans making comments about the war and the Germans before big games has been going on for decades.
It’s nothing new nor a ‘sign of the times’!0 -
Oz getting a spanking from the Windies - 79-50
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No they are all kept in South East to keep the troughers in jobs.TGOHF said:
I can guarantee that no Scottish car plants will be impacted by Brexit malc.Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.0 -
It's Conservative MPs trying to persuade their unhinged colleagues and members to make them PM who are talking about this possibility.tlg86 said:
Actually it's remainers who are talking up this possibility.AlastairMeeks said:
The wilder Leavers have visions of Boris Johnson riding the no deal Brexit bomb like Doctor Strangelove.OblitusSumMe said:
The Prime Minister cannot stop MPs attending Parliament if the Speaker agrees to recall them. The quorum is only 40. What will the PM do? Arrest them?eek said:
How do you attend Parliament if it's not in session that day / week?tlg86 said:
How does closing parliament happen? Could Tory MPs not act to no confidence the government before the winner of the contest becomes PM?eek said:
It is true - candidates are discussing proroguing Parliament to force through a No Deal departure and the next PM will be chosen by the (rather righter wing) members of the Conservative Party.tlg86 said:
But that's not true, is it? Parliament is still sovereign and the MPs can VONC the government.Scott_P said:
While it's unlikely that the most insane right wing candidate will win and close Parliament until November you cannot claim some candidates haven't discussed it.
In fact, could they not do it if Raab makes the final 2?
How on Earth does that become "remainers"?0 -
My favourite chant by England fans in recent years was at Park Head in November 2014:malcolmg said:
But even more prevalent than previously and shows the calibre of the morons.brendan16 said:“Morning G, sign of the times and way England is heading. Worse to come I would think.”
English footie fans making comments about the war and the Germans before big games has been going on for decades.
It’s nothing new nor a ‘sign of the times’!
You all voted no,
You all voted no,
You can't live without us,
You all voted no.0 -
Even renting a ferry is beyond themTheuniondivvie said:In a world of no shit Sherlock, saying that the UK 'may fail to mount an operation like' Overlord/Neptune nowadays probably wins today's prize. I doubt a Dieppe is even within our capabilities...
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/11364187136730972160 -
I assume @eek is a remainer. I apologise if I've got this wrong.OblitusSumMe said:
It's Conservative MPs trying to persuade their unhinged colleagues and members to make them PM who are talking about this possibility.tlg86 said:
Actually it's remainers who are talking up this possibility.AlastairMeeks said:
The wilder Leavers have visions of Boris Johnson riding the no deal Brexit bomb like Doctor Strangelove.OblitusSumMe said:
The Prime Minister cannot stop MPs attending Parliament if the Speaker agrees to recall them. The quorum is only 40. What will the PM do? Arrest them?eek said:
How do you attend Parliament if it's not in session that day / week?tlg86 said:
How does closing parliament happen? Could Tory MPs not act to no confidence the government before the winner of the contest becomes PM?eek said:
It is true - candidates are discussing proroguing Parliament to force through a No Deal departure and the next PM will be chosen by the (rather righter wing) members of the Conservative Party.tlg86 said:
But that's not true, is it? Parliament is still sovereign and the MPs can VONC the government.Scott_P said:
While it's unlikely that the most insane right wing candidate will win and close Parliament until November you cannot claim some candidates haven't discussed it.
In fact, could they not do it if Raab makes the final 2?
How on Earth does that become "remainers"?
But yes, the Tories talking this as a realistic option are deluded too.0 -
The truth is we won't know until we leave what it's going to be like outside the EU without a WA. Plenty of organisations (CBI, Bank of England to name but two) fear it will be very bad and it may be but the reputation of "experts" is so bad a significant minority either don't care or don't believe it (or in many cases both).Cicero said:
The would be safer. Personally the sneering tone from pro-Brexit armchair economists is exactly why support for Brexit is fading away like snow on a hot day.
It is not that Brexit brings the Night army to Bridgend. It is the incremental economic decisions that erode our investment and undermine our global competitiveness, and that is exactly what is happening.
Several Tories think that if they don't enact Brexit they will be obliterated. In fact it is if they DO enact it, against the growing majority who oppose Brexit that will obliterate them.
IF the experts have it right this time, the support for seeking to re-join the EU will develop rapidly but the problem is for those who might like us to integrate further (Euro, Schengen etc), a significantly larger group would simply prefer to go back to 23/6/16 and pretend the last three years hadn't happened. I'm not convinced you can put that genie back in that bottle.
There's also the problem of what happens if leaving the EU without a WA doesn't turn out that bad (or its effects can be masked by a general global downturn). The "No Deal" supporters will feel vindicated if life goes on without much in the way of disruption or dislocation. It would cause problems for the EU if other countries see leaving as not terribly difficult or painful.
Boris, were he to become PM, will no doubt try to play both ends against the middle for the benefit of his own political self-preservation. He's another "populist" who will say whatever he thinks the audience in front of him wants to hear - his strength is in determining which message will work for which group. His weakness is consistency.0 -
We could restrict the word to its absolute meaning of hungry and homeless. That's a fair point.noneoftheabove said:Agreed. And I find the use of the word poverty in the UK offensive. Relative poverty is simply not poverty. It is inequality, which should still be challenged and balanced with far far greater equality of opportunity than we have in the current system, but it is not poverty.
The 14 million who are apparently in poverty in the UK would typically be in the top 20% wealthiest globally.
But the relative measure is important. People in the developed world tend to judge their circumstances against others in the developed world, not against those in 'shit holes' (copyright Donald Trump).
For example, consider the rationale behind linking pensions over time to average earnings not just to inflation. Why do we do this? We do it because we recognize that if the link is to inflation only, pensioners will be protected ONLY against absolute 'poverty' and not against relative 'poverty'.0 -
There's always a lot of baksheesh and horse trading about where to put factories within the EU. But aside from tax breaks and matched investment, economics trumps everything:dixiedean said:
Could not agree more. Lord alone knows what the reaction would be if we had an actual recession. Not pleasant I would wager.noneoftheabove said:
It is so obvious that the reasons for the job losses are a mix of Brexit and other changes to the economy, yet the narrative for the black and white world of modern politics has to be that it is either/or not both together.Richard_Tyndall said:
I suppose Ford shedding 5000 jobs in Germany and closing a plant there is due to Brexit as well? And VW? And Daimler? All with job losses announced in Germany so far this year?
This is becoming the end of the enlightenment, reason and reality does not matter, it is all about emotion to validate the religious belief system.
- we are going through a painful ICE to EV transition. The UK is well-placed to take advantage of this transition incidentally
- pay and skills is always a massive factor in car manufacturing, and the UK is just not very competitive because of its lousy investment in education (long-term and pre-dates Brexit, and may change with increased apprenticeships) and workers from the newer EU states are cheaper
- however you measure it (gross margin, EBIT, EBITDA, etc.) car manufacturers have a profit margin after cyclical investment around 5-6%. WTO tariffs on parts are 10%. Leaving the EU on WTO kills profitability. Faced with Schroedinger's Brexit, the auto industry *has* to prepare for the worst, i.e. no deal. They have to move their manufacturing to survive.0 -
Ahem - Nissan is not in the3 South -East.malcolmg said:
No they are all kept in South East to keep the troughers in jobs.TGOHF said:
I can guarantee that no Scottish car plants will be impacted by Brexit malc.Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.0 -
Well Sunderland is south and east of Ayr I suppose...felix said:
Ahem - Nissan is not in the3 South -East.malcolmg said:
No they are all kept in South East to keep the troughers in jobs.TGOHF said:
I can guarantee that no Scottish car plants will be impacted by Brexit malc.Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.0 -
As a Pommie expat living in Australia when they had their 1999 Republic referendum, I went to an Aus v Eng ODI just after Australia had again retained the Ashes.tlg86 said:
My favourite chant by England fans in recent years was at Park Head in November 2014:malcolmg said:
But even more prevalent than previously and shows the calibre of the morons.brendan16 said:“Morning G, sign of the times and way England is heading. Worse to come I would think.”
English footie fans making comments about the war and the Germans before big games has been going on for decades.
It’s nothing new nor a ‘sign of the times’!
You all voted no,
You all voted no,
You can't live without us,
You all voted no.
Aussie fans were chanting "We own the Ashes"
English 'Barmy Army' fans were chanting in reply "We own your country".0 -
Inequality is one of the biggest issues in our society and I fully support it being tackled (mostly through greater equality of opportunity with some more govt redistibution) but it is simply not poverty.kinabalu said:
We could restrict the word to its absolute meaning of hungry and homeless. That's a fair point.noneoftheabove said:Agreed. And I find the use of the word poverty in the UK offensive. Relative poverty is simply not poverty. It is inequality, which should still be challenged and balanced with far far greater equality of opportunity than we have in the current system, but it is not poverty.
The 14 million who are apparently in poverty in the UK would typically be in the top 20% wealthiest globally.
But the relative measure is important. People in the developed world tend to judge their circumstances against others in the developed world, not against those in 'shit holes' (copyright Donald Trump).
For example, consider the rationale behind linking pensions over time to average earnings not just to inflation. Why do we do this? We do it because we recognize that if the link is to inflation only, pensioners will be protected ONLY against absolute 'poverty' and not against relative 'poverty'.
What is the difference between relative poverty and inequality? It has a perfectably clear name, inequality, why the desire to use the suffering of people in real poverty across the world to exaggerate what inequality is by calling it poverty. I find it offensive.0 -
Yes, it's just a horrible feature of football these days. Just an inane, oversung tune. Shame.tlg86 said:0 -
0
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48543313
Former SNP MP Natalie McGarry has been jailed for 18 months for embezzling money from pro-independence groups.
McGarry admitted embezzling more than £25,600 - including donations intended for a foodbank.
This included £21,000 from Women for Independence (WFI), when she was treasurer of the organisation, and the SNP's Glasgow Regional Association.
Her spending included rent, a holiday to Spain, transfers of money to her husband and other lifestyle costs.0 -
Well I wasn't to begin with however Brexit is a failed project and as with any failed project we should to go back to the beginning, identify what lessons have been learnt and then decide whether to restart the project or remain as we were...tlg86 said:
I assume @eek is a remainer. I apologise if I've got this wrong.OblitusSumMe said:
It's Conservative MPs trying to persuade their unhinged colleagues and members to make them PM who are talking about this possibility.tlg86 said:
Actually it's remainers who are talking up this possibility.AlastairMeeks said:
The wilder Leavers have visions of Boris Johnson riding the no deal Brexit bomb like Doctor Strangelove.OblitusSumMe said:
The Prime Minister cannot stop MPs attending Parliament if the Speaker agrees to recall them. The quorum is only 40. What will the PM do? Arrest them?eek said:
How do you attend Parliament if it's not in session that day / week?tlg86 said:
How does closing parliament happen? Could Tory MPs not act to no confidence the government before the winner of the contest becomes PM?eek said:
It is true - candidates are discussing proroguing Parliament to force through a No Deal departure and the next PM will be chosen by the (rather righter wing) members of the Conservative Party.tlg86 said:
But that's not true, is it? Parliament is still sovereign and the MPs can VONC the government.Scott_P said:
While it's unlikely that the most insane right wing candidate will win and close Parliament until November you cannot claim some candidates haven't discussed it.
In fact, could they not do it if Raab makes the final 2?
How on Earth does that become "remainers"?
But yes, the Tories talking this as a realistic option are deluded too.
What we really shouldn't be doing is letting a bunch of failed politicians (and all candidates except those remaining in the cabinet have failed) continue this disaster version...
And as for talking it up - I'm not Raab and McVey are alongside Leadsom.0 -
Um, am I the only one who has absolutely no idea who that person is or what he's done to raise the ire of Mr Dunt?Theuniondivvie said:And one that can't pour a pint.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1136570817351966721
0 -
Another stupid Remainer myth. There is no 'growing majority' who oppose Brexit.Cicero said:
The would be safer. Personally the sneering tone from pro-Brexit armchair economists is exactly why support for Brexit is fading away like snow on a hot day.MarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
It is not that Brexit brings the Night army to Bridgend. It is the incremental economic decisions that erode our investment and undermine our global competitiveness, and that is exactly what is happening.
Several Tories think that if they don't enact Brexit they will be obliterated. In fact it is if they DO enact it, against the growing majority who oppose Brexit that will obliterate them.0 -
Well support for the EU is certainly more akin to religious fanaticism than logic.noneoftheabove said:
It is so obvious that the reasons for the job losses are a mix of Brexit and other changes to the economy, yet the narrative for the black and white world of modern politics has to be that it is either/or not both together.Richard_Tyndall said:
I suppose Ford shedding 5000 jobs in Germany and closing a plant there is due to Brexit as well? And VW? And Daimler? All with job losses announced in Germany so far this year?Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.
This is becoming the end of the enlightenment, reason and reality does not matter, it is all about emotion to validate the religious belief system.0 -
a wish is not a claim on reality... If you are so certain, why not support a PV?Richard_Tyndall said:
Another stupid Remainer myth. There is no 'growing majority' who oppose Brexit.Cicero said:
The would be safer. Personally the sneering tone from pro-Brexit armchair economists is exactly why support for Brexit is fading away like snow on a hot day.MarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
It is not that Brexit brings the Night army to Bridgend. It is the incremental economic decisions that erode our investment and undermine our global competitiveness, and that is exactly what is happening.
Several Tories think that if they don't enact Brexit they will be obliterated. In fact it is if they DO enact it, against the growing majority who oppose Brexit that will obliterate them.0 -
There is. It’s quite literally made up of people growing up and reaching voting age.Richard_Tyndall said:
Another stupid Remainer myth. There is no 'growing majority' who oppose Brexit.Cicero said:
The would be safer. Personally the sneering tone from pro-Brexit armchair economists is exactly why support for Brexit is fading away like snow on a hot day.MarqueeMark said:
And if we had voted to remain, those jobs would be safe? Get real.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
It is not that Brexit brings the Night army to Bridgend. It is the incremental economic decisions that erode our investment and undermine our global competitiveness, and that is exactly what is happening.
Several Tories think that if they don't enact Brexit they will be obliterated. In fact it is if they DO enact it, against the growing majority who oppose Brexit that will obliterate them.0 -
0
-
If you don't think pouring a pint of spume isn't reason enough...GIN1138 said:
Um, am I the only one who has absolutely no idea who that person is or what he's done to raise the ire of Mr Dunt?Theuniondivvie said:And one that can't pour a pint.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1136570817351966721
It's Etiolated Eric, one of Trump's sprogs.0 -
EU supporters are perhaps around 10% of the population, about 40% are people who think on balance, EU membership has flaws but is better than the alternatives, and particularly better than no deal. It is leavers failure to work with this group, along with their internal divisions that has resulted in no brexit.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well support for the EU is certainly more akin to religious fanaticism than logic.noneoftheabove said:
It is so obvious that the reasons for the job losses are a mix of Brexit and other changes to the economy, yet the narrative for the black and white world of modern politics has to be that it is either/or not both together.Richard_Tyndall said:
I suppose Ford shedding 5000 jobs in Germany and closing a plant there is due to Brexit as well? And VW? And Daimler? All with job losses announced in Germany so far this year?Theuniondivvie said:
The impenetrable wall.148grss said:
"Without a shred of evidence", what, like quotes from the business 3 years ago saying "if Brexit goes ahead we will close factories". I mean, the evidence is their words. Now, if you think car manufacturers are actually part of project fear and are only closing their factories out of ideological pro EU zeal and not business factors created by an environment they warned about years in advance; okay. The lizard people will see you now.MarqueeMark said:
The usual remainers were here blaiming it on Brexit without a shred of evidence, because they so painfully want it to be so.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1136554052660146177
The usual suspects were out last night on here.
Car company commits to staying in post Brexit UK: ha ha, there you go, they know it'll be brilliant!
Car company closes plant in the UK: ha ha, nothing to do with Brexit, they were going to do it anyway!
Car company boss says closure was not due to Brexit: ha ha, there you go, he's an expert, he should know what he's talking about!
Car company boss says closure was due to Brexit: ha ha, he's just using it as an excuse for wider problems!
etc.
This is becoming the end of the enlightenment, reason and reality does not matter, it is all about emotion to validate the religious belief system.
Yet again no acceptance that the leave side can be wrong, your only interest is to muddy the waters by finding faults on the remain side. Of course those exist, my post criticises both sides equally, but until people on both sides of the debate accept the problems around their position, rather than pointing out the problems with the opposite position, the UK will not get anywhere bar paralysis and division, which none of us want (apart from Putin).0 -
I agree that relative poverty should not be called poverty. It needs its full handle of RELATIVE poverty. If you use the word 'poverty' in isolation, the single word, it implies you mean absolute poverty. So if you just say 'poverty' when you mean 'relative poverty' this is misleading. Do I find the misuse offensive? Not really. But it is a misuse.noneoftheabove said:Inequality is one of the biggest issues in our society and I fully support it being tackled (mostly through greater equality of opportunity with some more govt redistibution) but it is simply not poverty.
What is the difference between relative poverty and inequality? It has a perfectably clear name, inequality, why the desire to use the suffering of people in real poverty across the world to exaggerate what inequality is by calling it poverty. I find it offensive.
Relative poverty is the same as inequality? Yes and No. In essence it is, but 'relative poverty' works better in the language than 'inequality' in certain constructions.
For example, "Many millions of Britons are living in relative poverty."
That works well. It's clear. We know what it means.
As opposed to, "Many millions of Britons are living in inequality."
That does not work. One would have to rephrase as -
"Britain is a highly unequal society."
Which is fine. (Well it's not fine, but the phrase is).
So we need both terms, 'relative poverty' and 'inequality'.
They both serve a purpose. They are the same but different.0 -
Raab really is a thickie, and he's supposed to be one of the smarter ones...0
-
There are about 20 candidates standing so the remaining 13surbiton19 said:
Er… who's getting the other 10% ?HYUFD said:
My predictionMarqueeMark said:Peterborough prediction: the only way Brexit Party don't win is if the Tories put in a surprisingly strong showing. Given they will have been working this seat for months ahead of the recall petition and the recall petition itself as a potential gain, I suspect they will deliver on the upside....
Four parties in the twenties? Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber '92 anyone?
Brexit Party 35%, LDs 20%, Labour 18%, Tories 10%, Greens 5%, UKIP 1%, CUK 1%0 -
My car insurance renewal was down by a tenner from last year. Another friend on Facebook has reported the same - Is the true aggregate price coming down, and so a negative effect on inflation incoming ?0
-
No it has nothing to do with poverty. It is to keep the retired in line with earnings because that is their income.kinabalu said:
We could restrict the word to its absolute meaning of hungry and homeless. That's a fair point.noneoftheabove said:Agreed. And I find the use of the word poverty in the UK offensive. Relative poverty is simply not poverty. It is inequality, which should still be challenged and balanced with far far greater equality of opportunity than we have in the current system, but it is not poverty.
The 14 million who are apparently in poverty in the UK would typically be in the top 20% wealthiest globally.
But the relative measure is important. People in the developed world tend to judge their circumstances against others in the developed world, not against those in 'shit holes' (copyright Donald Trump).
For example, consider the rationale behind linking pensions over time to average earnings not just to inflation. Why do we do this? We do it because we recognize that if the link is to inflation only, pensioners will be protected ONLY against absolute 'poverty' and not against relative 'poverty'.
Relative may be important for equality purposes but it is meaningless garbage when you make international comparisons like this unless you use the same relative baseline.
Who is more in poverty: A Brit on 59% of British median income, or a Romanian on 61% of Romanian median income?
If a Romanian living in Romania on 61% of median income moves to the UK and gets a job at 59% of British median income will their have fallen into poverty?
If a Brit living in Britain on 59% of British median income moves to Romania and gets a job at 61% of Romanian median income will they have escaped a life of poverty?0 -
That this should even need saying is a measure of how barmy and un-Conservative so many Tories have become.AlastairMeeks said:
Proroguing Parliament indeed. This is the action of dictators not Democrats.0 -
Any such operation would only be conducted through NATO or the UN anyway for which our forces already train as combined units with other nationsTheuniondivvie said:In a world of no shit Sherlock, saying that the UK 'may fail to mount an operation like' Overlord/Neptune nowadays probably wins today's prize. I doubt a Dieppe is even within our capabilities...
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/11364187136730972160 -
Can I just blow my own trumpet here, because I think I was the first person to spot this looming problem, and I was derided for my pains.williamglenn said:
I know it's gauche, but what the hell.1 -
I knocked a lot off my dad'd insurance this year, which surprised me.Pulpstar said:My car insurance renewal was down by a tenner from last year. Another friend on Facebook has reported the same - Is the true aggregate price coming down, and so a negative effect on inflation incoming ?
0 -
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1136583661032214530?s=20rottenborough said:Still bad, looks like around 40%
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/11365756499577610240 -
May considering the Merkel route as her successors are not up to the job she has to unresign? Perhaps she will put her Withdrawal Agreement through again to ensure her successor cannot pursue No Deal and risk losing a VONC?williamglenn said:0 -
Sleazy SNP caught in the act for once.tlg86 said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48543313
Former SNP MP Natalie McGarry has been jailed for 18 months for embezzling money from pro-independence groups.
McGarry admitted embezzling more than £25,600 - including donations intended for a foodbank.
This included £21,000 from Women for Independence (WFI), when she was treasurer of the organisation, and the SNP's Glasgow Regional Association.
Her spending included rent, a holiday to Spain, transfers of money to her husband and other lifestyle costs.0 -
If you ask people on $1 a day whether someone with not just food and shelter, but free health care and a state pension worth several hundred thousand dollars all guaranteed are in poverty they would certainly find it bizarre and many would find it offensive.kinabalu said:
I agree that relative poverty should not be called poverty. It needs its full handle of RELATIVE poverty. If you use the word 'poverty' in isolation, the single word, it implies you mean absolute poverty. So if you just say 'poverty' when you mean 'relative poverty' this is misleading. Do I find the misuse offensive? Not really. But it is a misuse.noneoftheabove said:Inequality is one of the biggest issues in our society and I fully support it being tackled (mostly through greater equality of opportunity with some more govt redistibution) but it is simply not poverty.
What is the difference between relative poverty and inequality? It has a perfectably clear name, inequality, why the desire to use the suffering of people in real poverty across the world to exaggerate what inequality is by calling it poverty. I find it offensive.
Relative poverty is the same as inequality? Yes and No. In essence it is, but 'relative poverty' works better in the language than 'inequality' in certain constructions.
For example, "Many millions of Britons are living in relative poverty."
That works well. It's clear. We know what it means.
As opposed to, "Many millions of Britons are living in inequality."
That does not work. One would have to rephrase as -
"Britain is a highly unequal society."
Which is fine. (Well it's not fine, but the phrase is).
So we need both terms, 'relative poverty' and 'inequality'.
They both serve a purpose. They are the same but different.0 -
£190 ! Cheapest in years.tlg86 said:
I knocked a lot off my dad'd insurance this year, which surprised me.Pulpstar said:My car insurance renewal was down by a tenner from last year. Another friend on Facebook has reported the same - Is the true aggregate price coming down, and so a negative effect on inflation incoming ?
0 -
A familiar tune to the plastic paddies at that venue - "Why don't you go home, the famine is over, why don't you go home" was popular for a while until some had a sense of humour failure about it.tlg86 said:
My favourite chant by England fans in recent years was at Park Head in November 2014:malcolmg said:
But even more prevalent than previously and shows the calibre of the morons.brendan16 said:“Morning G, sign of the times and way England is heading. Worse to come I would think.”
English footie fans making comments about the war and the Germans before big games has been going on for decades.
It’s nothing new nor a ‘sign of the times’!
You all voted no,
You all voted no,
You can't live without us,
You all voted no.0 -
Oh God. Is this her latest plan to go on and on and on and...AlastairMeeks said:
Can I just blow my own trumpet here, because I think I was the first person to spot this looming problem, and I was derided for my pains.williamglenn said:
I know it's gauche, but what the hell.0 -
Who was your insurer, Direct Line nearly doubled my insurance.Pulpstar said:
£190 ! Cheapest in years.tlg86 said:
I knocked a lot off my dad'd insurance this year, which surprised me.Pulpstar said:My car insurance renewal was down by a tenner from last year. Another friend on Facebook has reported the same - Is the true aggregate price coming down, and so a negative effect on inflation incoming ?
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If May doesn't resign she risks losing a VONC.HYUFD said:
May considering the Merkel route as her successors are not up to the job she has to unresign? Perhaps she will put her Withdrawal Agreement through again to ensure her successor cannot pursue No Deal and risk losing a VONC?williamglenn said:0 -
TescoTheScreamingEagles said:
Who was your insurer, Direct Line nearly doubled my insurance.Pulpstar said:
£190 ! Cheapest in years.tlg86 said:
I knocked a lot off my dad'd insurance this year, which surprised me.Pulpstar said:My car insurance renewal was down by a tenner from last year. Another friend on Facebook has reported the same - Is the true aggregate price coming down, and so a negative effect on inflation incoming ?
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Oh!!!!!Theuniondivvie said:
If you don't think pouring a pint of spume isn't reason enough...GIN1138 said:
Um, am I the only one who has absolutely no idea who that person is or what he's done to raise the ire of Mr Dunt?Theuniondivvie said:And one that can't pour a pint.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1136570817351966721
It's Etiolated Eric, one of Trump's sprogs.
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Only if Labour call one, but if both the Tories and Labour would get wiped out in an election, why not just let May carry on as the PM without a party?Philip_Thompson said:
If May doesn't resign she risks losing a VONC.HYUFD said:
May considering the Merkel route as her successors are not up to the job she has to unresign? Perhaps she will put her Withdrawal Agreement through again to ensure her successor cannot pursue No Deal and risk losing a VONC?williamglenn said:0 -
May could still be PM by October if Boris or Raab wins.
Is there a book on when she actually leaves Downing Street?0 -
Mine with the Co-op is only going up a few £ from last year.Pulpstar said:
TescoTheScreamingEagles said:
Who was your insurer, Direct Line nearly doubled my insurance.Pulpstar said:
£190 ! Cheapest in years.tlg86 said:
I knocked a lot off my dad'd insurance this year, which surprised me.Pulpstar said:My car insurance renewal was down by a tenner from last year. Another friend on Facebook has reported the same - Is the true aggregate price coming down, and so a negative effect on inflation incoming ?
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May's spokesman has said she will not resign unless she can tell the Queen that the successor is likely to command confidence.
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May could stay on as PM while new Con leader has a general election?0
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There is an important distinction between relative poverty and absolute poverty.Philip_Thompson said:No it has nothing to do with poverty. It is to keep the retired in line with earnings because that is their income.
Relative may be important for equality purposes but it is meaningless garbage when you make international comparisons like this unless you use the same relative baseline.
1. Who is more in poverty: A Brit on 59% of British median income, or a Romanian on 61% of Romanian median income?
2. If a Romanian living in Romania on 61% of median income moves to the UK and gets a job at 59% of British median income will their have fallen into poverty?
3. If a Brit living in Britain on 59% of British median income moves to Romania and gets a job at 61% of Romanian median income will they have escaped a life of poverty?
So, your examples -
1. The Brit is (marginally) more in relative poverty but is (greatly) less in absolute poverty than the Romanian.
2. No. To say that that Romanian has 'fallen into poverty' would be wildly inaccurate. They have fallen (marginally) more into relative poverty but have moved (greatly) out of absolute poverty.
3. No. To say that that Brit has 'escaped a life of poverty' would be way off beam. They have (very marginally) reduced their level of relative poverty but have (massively) increased their level of absolute poverty.
The link to earnings for pensioners is so that they do not -
(a) Fall behind the rest of the population.
(b) Struggle to afford a lot of what the working population can afford.
(c) Fall into RELATIVE POVERTY.
All of the above are correct and fine and accurate.0 -
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For constitutional history buffs this year could turn out to be a once in a lifetime show.0
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Wrong again. I have advocated listening to and working with Remain voters since before the referendum. I have written OPs on here about how Brexit needs to be framed to take into account the large Remain vote.noneoftheabove said:
EU supporters are perhaps around 10% of the population, about 40% are people who think on balance, EU membership has flaws but is better than the alternatives, and particularly better than no deal. It is leavers failure to work with this group, along with their internal divisions that has resulted in no brexit.
Yet again no acceptance that the leave side can be wrong, your only interest is to muddy the waters by finding faults on the remain side. Of course those exist, my post criticises both sides equally, but until people on both sides of the debate accept the problems around their position, rather than pointing out the problems with the opposite position, the UK will not get anywhere bar paralysis and division, which none of us want (apart from Putin).
Unfortunately such comments run into the likes of Meeks who believes that no compromise is possible with Leavers until they admit they are all xenophobes and racists.0
