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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LDs the main gainers but there are a lot more results to come

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited May 2019
    > @CarlottaVance said:
    > That would have been embarrassing.....
    >
    > https://twitter.com/bbcelection/status/1124176248291385344


    Still lost 15 of 38 seats being defended

    Correction: boundary changes - went from 38 to 23 on a smaller counci. LibDems went from 1 to 9, residents from 2 to 5, Indy from 0 to 4
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,759
    > @SouthamObserver said:
    > Turns out having an anti-Semitic, anti-EU, anti-NATO leader is not a sure path to power for Labour. Whoever would have thought it?
    >
    > I voted LibDem yesterday and it felt very good.

    Are you going to start wearing sandals? You know you want to.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    I seem to recall seeing that NPXMP was standing as a councillor, one assumes in Broxtowe.. Did he get a Safe? seat?


    Not in Broxtowe, in the Home Counties.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,731

    So far, obviously good for the Lib Dems, who are benefitting from being the only viable party other than Labour and the Conservatives in most places. Yes of course 2015 was a particularly bad year for them but they flatlined in 2017. They’re on the up. That was not inevitable.


    And has precisely nothing to do with the efforts of Vince Cable.
    That's a strange post. What efforts has he made?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Jonathan said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.



    One day you’ll be discouraged by the root cause, your namesake.

    I'm not sure why I physically rolled my eyes in response to that, ingrained response I suppose. I disagree, although you might have guessed that.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,876
    Looks like we’ll be able to wave Chris Williamson off into the sunset at the next general election. Which is nice.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    > @Scott_P said:
    > https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1124109727154286592

    "taking a photo of a ballot paper’s unique identification number is against the rules. People face a fine of £5,000 or six months in prison if they reveal how someone else voted, even accidentally."
    Hopefully no identification marks visible.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    edited May 2019
    I think a PBer has just won a seat for the Lib Dems but will leave it to them to confirm or otherwise.

    Scale of the emerging LD win on Vale of the White Horse is massive. https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17615225.local-elections-2019-oxfordshire-results-as-they-come-in/
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    > @Casino_Royale said:
    > So far, obviously good for the Lib Dems, who are benefitting from being the only viable party other than Labour and the Conservatives in most places. Yes of course 2015 was a particularly bad year for them but they flatlined in 2017. They’re on the up. That was not inevitable.
    >
    >
    > And has precisely nothing to do with the efforts of Vince Cable.

    If everyone else is falling back, all you have to do is stand still.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.
    >
    >
    >
    > One day you’ll be discouraged by the root cause, your namesake.
    >
    > I'm not sure why I physically rolled my eyes in response to that, ingrained response I suppose. I disagree, although you might have guessed that.

    One day you’ll get it. Probably too late. But you’ll get there.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.



    What's your alternative plan?



    Leave the government to twist in the wind? That's working out less when than you might have hoped.



    Vote TMay's deal through as is? You're already losing the Leave 20% of your vote, now you get to lose the Remain 80% too.



    Do the customs union deal with TMay? The Tories will take your votes, change their leader and renege, which is the same as voting for TMay's deal as is except you'll look like chumps.

    Leave the government twist in the wind, it isn't Labours job to figure it out. If pushing towards remain is proving unpopular then we should pull back from it.

    Although to clarify I'm not saying I'm anti 2nd ref, just less in favour of a referendum than I was previously.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    > @DavidL said:
    > > @AlastairMeeks said:
    > > So far, obviously good for the Lib Dems, who are benefitting from being the only viable party other than Labour and the Conservatives in most places. Yes of course 2015 was a particularly bad year for them but they flatlined in 2017. They’re on the up. That was not inevitable.
    >
    > Indeed. If I was a Tory who won my seat from the Lib Dems in 2015 I would be a lot more twitchy this morning than I had been when the Lib Dems seemed to be struggling to reach double figures.
    >
    > Weirdly UKIP are also doing well where they are standing. There is clearly an anti-incumbency bias.

    Quite a lot of councillors listed as independents by the BBC are also ex-UKIP (eg in Thurrock, Barnsley, Hartlepool, Tendring).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    > @Casino_Royale said:

    > So far, obviously good for the Lib Dems, who are benefitting from being the only viable party other than Labour and the Conservatives in most places. Yes of course 2015 was a particularly bad year for them but they flatlined in 2017. They’re on the up. That was not inevitable.

    >

    >

    > And has precisely nothing to do with the efforts of Vince Cable.



    If everyone else is falling back, all you have to do is stand still.

    Or lie still, sleeping, having had a nice mug of Horlicks and a hot bath.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,179
    I'm beginning to enjoy this Lib Dem avalanche... Hearing that some very good results are coming on places that were not on the map even a couple of weeks ago. Already the best night for the party since 2003.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited May 2019
    > @Cicero said:
    > Feeling OK about my guesses of yesterday. So far I would say the Lib Dems are doing better than I guessed, in fact they may break 20% of the vote, which is a pretty spectacular change on current polls, especially when they are barely contesting half the seats up. The Tories are faring slightly worse, and may lose more than 900 overall. Labour are having an extremely ho-hum night and my prediction of net losses is not looking too bad. Also Others seem set to beat my prediction by a good margin, I forgot to add that I expected Green gains and UKIP losses in my tally of Others.
    >
    > I came through Cirencester on Tuesday and there was a bigger than usual display of Lib Dem posters, so I did have an inkling about Cotswold.
    >
    > I think that the Lib Dems will generally do better on the number of councils than the number of councillor gains would imply, because they are concentrating their vote in core areas: thus North Norfolk and Bath/NE Somerset. The Lib Dems are clearly back in business, and with a new leader in the offing and further progress in the Euros likely, I think we could see consistent high-teen poll ratings before the end of the summer, to match this evenings vote. I would be feeling pretty nervous tonight if I was a Tory MP for a seat that had been Lib Dem before 2015.

    The other thing about the LibDems is that they lost a lot of activists during the coalition and in some areas their organisation is way behind where it used to be. To win seats as a third party needs organisation and effort - the seat gains show the results where they are still able to put this in. But there will be other areas where the LD vote will have risen without any seats to show for it: when the vote shares come to be worked out, these could be more flattering for the LDs than even the seat gains.

    p.s. kudos for your Labour prediction; you were on the money and ahead of the ‘official’ analysts.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Labour are all over the place on Brexit, listening to Barry Gardiner last night he was taking an almost ERG line.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    ydoethur said:

    So far, obviously good for the Lib Dems, who are benefitting from being the only viable party other than Labour and the Conservatives in most places. Yes of course 2015 was a particularly bad year for them but they flatlined in 2017. They’re on the up. That was not inevitable.


    And has precisely nothing to do with the efforts of Vince Cable.
    That's a strange post. What efforts has he made?

    Exactly.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Times cartoon on local election results


  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    > @Pulpstar said:
    > Labour are all over the place on Brexit, listening to Barry Gardiner last night he was taking an almost ERG line.

    I wonder if we'll have movement on the WA?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.
    >
    >
    >
    > What's your alternative plan?
    >
    >
    >
    > Leave the government to twist in the wind? That's working out less when than you might have hoped.
    >
    >
    >
    > Vote TMay's deal through as is? You're already losing the Leave 20% of your vote, now you get to lose the Remain 80% too.
    >
    >
    >
    > Do the customs union deal with TMay? The Tories will take your votes, change their leader and renege, which is the same as voting for TMay's deal as is except you'll look like chumps.
    >
    > Leave the government twist in the wind, it isn't Labours job to figure it out. If pushing towards remain is proving unpopular then we should pull back from it.
    >
    > Although to clarify I'm not saying I'm anti 2nd ref, just less in favour of a referendum than I was previously.

    Labour haven't been 'pushing towards remain'. They've been utterly leaderless and rudderless on Brexit, and MPs are just saying whatever sh*t they like.

    The only thing Labour have been pushing towards is anti-Semitism and intolerance under your great hero.

    You must be so proud.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    Got a weird sense of deja vu, seeing the Lib Dems winning here and there.

    Surprised Labour, currently, have gone backwards.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    Very poor result for Corbyn in Stoke where he began his campaign with labour losing 5 seats and conservatives gaining 8.

    Very poor night for the conservatives but labour looking nowhere near government.

    Congratulations to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents.

    It could and should have been all so different if the ERG had voted for the WDA on the first vote and not played fast and lose with the deal. JRM getting a kicking from the Lib Dems is ironic and I expect the rest of the day to continue in the same vein with many more conservative loses to the Lib Dems and labour in the doldrums

    If the conservatives and labour mps have any sense they need to pass the WDA very quickly and leave by the 30th June
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Jonathan said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > > @TheJezziah said:

    >

    > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.

    >

    >

    >

    > One day you’ll be discouraged by the root cause, your namesake.

    >

    > I'm not sure why I physically rolled my eyes in response to that, ingrained response I suppose. I disagree, although you might have guessed that.



    One day you’ll get it. Probably too late. But you’ll get there.

    Whilst I don't your confidence in your own views about what you know will happen you are just one of many people who all know different outcomes will happen.

    Whilst one of you will be right the vast majority will be wrong, because there are people on every side who know they are right.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    Ashfield - Labour go from 22 to 2.

    Now Ashfield Independents 30
    Conservatives 3
    Labour 2

    A model for others to copy across the country.....
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.

    Why are they not?

    Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics
    Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit
    Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out
    Corbyn mismanagement of his party.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    These results imply neither a pro- or anti-Brexit party would stand much chance of winning a majority in a GE.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2019
    The bad news for Labour in Stoke-on-Trent continues. Two very close results have just been declared, with the Tories beating Labour by 10 votes and 19 votes (7 votes over the City Inds).

    Blurton West & Newstead:

    Con 322
    City Inds 315
    Lab 303
    Greens 72

    http://www.moderngov.stoke.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?XXR=0&ID=208&RPID=41791465


    Broadway & Longton East:

    Con 522
    Lab 512

    http://www.moderngov.stoke.gov.uk/mgElectionAreaResults.aspx?XXR=0&ID=211&RPID=41791465
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Jonathan said:

    To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.



    Why are they not?



    Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics

    Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit

    Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out

    Corbyn mismanagement of his party.

    So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    > @not_on_fire said:
    > These results imply neither a pro- or anti-Brexit party would stand much chance of winning a majority in a GE.

    Very fair comment
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340

    Very poor result for Corbyn in Stoke where he began his campaign with labour losing 5 seats and conservatives gaining 8.



    Very poor night for the conservatives but labour looking nowhere near government.



    Congratulations to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents.



    It could and should have been all so different if the ERG had voted for the WDA on the first vote and not played fast and lose with the deal. JRM getting a kicking from the Lib Dems is ironic and I expect the rest of the day to continue in the same vein with many more conservative loses to the Lib Dems and labour in the doldrums



    If the conservatives and labour mps have any sense they need to pass the WDA very quickly and leave by the 30th June

    I suspect from a cynical point of view, delaying Brexit further may hurt the Tories more tha Labour, especially if the Brexit party splits the vote.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    edited May 2019
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.
    >
    >
    >
    > What's your alternative plan?
    >
    >
    >
    > Leave the government to twist in the wind? That's working out less when than you might have hoped.
    >
    >
    >
    > Vote TMay's deal through as is? You're already losing the Leave 20% of your vote, now you get to lose the Remain 80% too.
    >
    >
    >
    > Do the customs union deal with TMay? The Tories will take your votes, change their leader and renege, which is the same as voting for TMay's deal as is except you'll look like chumps.
    >
    > Leave the government twist in the wind, it isn't Labours job to figure it out. If pushing towards remain is proving unpopular then we should pull back from it.
    >
    > Although to clarify I'm not saying I'm anti 2nd ref, just less in favour of a referendum than I was previously.

    When Labour comes to analyse the results, I think they will conclude the opposite. Clearly the party is losing people from both ends, so the fence looks less attractive than it did. I suspect they are losing more Remain voters - including in Leave areas - and where they are losing leave voters these are irretrievable in the medium term as Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories, let alone prevent such people signing up with Farage when he arrives.

    The only part of its vote Labour can hope to shore up is the remainer side currently switching to LibDem, Green or Indy. Which means backing the PV.

    For sure, there are no votes in helping the Tories to deliver May’s deal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.
    >
    >
    >
    > Why are they not?
    >
    >
    >
    > Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics
    >
    > Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit
    >
    > Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out
    >
    > Corbyn mismanagement of his party.
    >
    > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?

    The negatives for labour are trying to appease both remain and leave and one Jeremy Corbyn
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?

    https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1124194312793800704

    Oh...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    > @El_Capitano said:
    > I think a PBer has just won a seat for the Lib Dems but will leave it to them to confirm or otherwise.
    >

    @SeanT is normally so shy .... :smiley:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited May 2019
    > @IanB2 said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > >
    > > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > What's your alternative plan?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Leave the government to twist in the wind? That's working out less when than you might have hoped.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Vote TMay's deal through as is? You're already losing the Leave 20% of your vote, now you get to lose the Remain 80% too.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Do the customs union deal with TMay? The Tories will take your votes, change their leader and renege, which is the same as voting for TMay's deal as is except you'll look like chumps.
    > >
    > > Leave the government twist in the wind, it isn't Labours job to figure it out. If pushing towards remain is proving unpopular then we should pull back from it.
    > >
    > > Although to clarify I'm not saying I'm anti 2nd ref, just less in favour of a referendum than I was previously.
    >
    > When Labour comes to analyse the results, I think they will conclude the opposite. Clearly the party is losing people from both ends, so the fence looks less attractive than it did. I suspect they are losing more Remain voters - including in Leave areas - and where they are losing leave voters these are irretrievable in the medium term as Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories, let alone prevent such people signing up with Farage when he arrives.
    >
    > The only part of its vote Labour can hope to shore up is the remainer side currently switching to LibDem, Green or Indy. Which means backing the PV.
    >
    > For sure, there are no votes in helping the Tories to deliver May’s deal.

    Wasn't there a plot earlier showing the reverse is true, that their share is down more in Leave seats? Fair point that they can't out-Brexit the Tories though!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Very poor result for Corbyn in Stoke where he began his campaign with labour losing 5 seats and conservatives gaining 8.



    Very poor night for the conservatives but labour looking nowhere near government.



    Congratulations to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents.



    It could and should have been all so different if the ERG had voted for the WDA on the first vote and not played fast and lose with the deal. JRM getting a kicking from the Lib Dems is ironic and I expect the rest of the day to continue in the same vein with many more conservative loses to the Lib Dems and labour in the doldrums



    If the conservatives and labour mps have any sense they need to pass the WDA very quickly and leave by the 30th June

    Big G continues to blame the diner for not eating a shit sandwich rather than the chef who prepared said delicacy....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,876
    This is actually worse for Labour than the Tories. Governments are supposed to lose heavily in mid-term council elections. Oppositions are supposed to make gains.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    > @logical_song said:
    > > @Scott_P said:
    > > https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1124109727154286592
    >
    > "taking a photo of a ballot paper’s unique identification number is against the rules. People face a fine of £5,000 or six months in prison if they reveal how someone else voted, even accidentally."
    > Hopefully no identification marks visible.


    The numbers are always on the back.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    This is actually worse for Labour than the Tories. Governments are supposed to lose heavily in mid-term council elections. Oppositions are supposed to make gains.

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1124193361097834496
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    > @RobD said:
    > > @Pulpstar said:
    > > Labour are all over the place on Brexit, listening to Barry Gardiner last night he was taking an almost ERG line.
    >
    > I wonder if we'll have movement on the WA?

    I am sure this goes down well with the core Lab vote:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1124184429071613952?s=19
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Does this mean that remain voters are flocking to the Lib Dems while disillusioned Tory and Labour leave voters simply stay home? Perhaps. But we shouldn’t forget the salience of local issues. Campaigners around the country have been desperate to shift the debate on to local issues and have had some success.

    These elections are not a glorified opinion poll, they’re about electing councillors who will make decisions about the local services people rely on.”


    https://www.lgiu.org.uk/news/lgiu-statement-state-of-the-locals-at-6am/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    Jonathan said:

    To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.



    Why are they not?



    Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics

    Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit

    Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out

    Corbyn mismanagement of his party.

    Voters think Labour councillors will go apeshit with council tax.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    Jonathan said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > > @TheJezziah said:

    >

    > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.

    >

    >

    >

    > One day you’ll be discouraged by the root cause, your namesake.

    >

    > I'm not sure why I physically rolled my eyes in response to that, ingrained response I suppose. I disagree, although you might have guessed that.



    One day you’ll get it. Probably too late. But you’ll get there.

    Whilst I don't your confidence in your own views about what you know will happen you are just one of many people who all know different outcomes will happen.

    Whilst one of you will be right the vast majority will be wrong, because there are people on every side who know they are right.
    Deep.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    > @SouthamObserver said:
    > This is actually worse for Labour than the Tories. Governments are supposed to lose heavily in mid-term council elections. Oppositions are supposed to make gains.

    Are you suggesting the LibDems are the Opposition? lol!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    > @not_on_fire said:
    > Very poor result for Corbyn in Stoke where he began his campaign with labour losing 5 seats and conservatives gaining 8.
    >
    >
    >
    > Very poor night for the conservatives but labour looking nowhere near government.
    >
    >
    >
    > Congratulations to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents.
    >
    >
    >
    > It could and should have been all so different if the ERG had voted for the WDA on the first vote and not played fast and lose with the deal. JRM getting a kicking from the Lib Dems is ironic and I expect the rest of the day to continue in the same vein with many more conservative loses to the Lib Dems and labour in the doldrums
    >
    >
    >
    > If the conservatives and labour mps have any sense they need to pass the WDA very quickly and leave by the 30th June
    >
    > I suspect from a cynical point of view, delaying Brexit further may hurt the Tories more tha Labour, especially if the Brexit party splits the vote.

    It is possible but I think labour have the added problem that Corbyn's popularity is very much on the wane
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    > @El_Capitano said:
    > I seem to recall seeing that NPXMP was standing as a councillor, one assumes in Broxtowe.. Did he get a Safe? seat?
    >
    >
    > Not in Broxtowe, in the Home Counties.


    Waverley DC. Count starts in a couple of hours time.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    IanB2 said:


    When Labour comes to analyse the results, I think they will conclude the opposite. Clearly the party is losing people from both ends, so the fence looks less attractive than it did. I suspect they are losing more Remain voters - including in Leave areas - and where they are losing leave voters these are irretrievable in the medium term as Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories, let alone prevent such people signing up with Farage when he arrives.



    The only part of its vote Labour can hope to shore up is the remainer side currently switching to LibDem, Green or Indy. Which means backing the PV.

    We don't need to win people over with our Brexit policy, it generally isn't what happened in 2017. We need to create the space to win people over on non Brexit areas. Going full remain creates a Brexit election with a pro Brexit Tory party vs a Remain Labour party.

    Letting the Tories stew on it instead creates a messy... possibly then Boris led Tory party with little space to work in with Farage one side of him and Labour the other.

    They could then longer term push hard on remain, maybe in an election but shorter term I'm not sure if it might be a good idea to hold off on pushing remain.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    Jonathan said:

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > > @TheJezziah said:

    >

    > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.

    >

    >

    >

    > One day you’ll be discouraged by the root cause, your namesake.

    >

    > I'm not sure why I physically rolled my eyes in response to that, ingrained response I suppose. I disagree, although you might have guessed that.



    One day you’ll get it. Probably too late. But you’ll get there.

    Whilst I don't your confidence in your own views about what you know will happen you are just one of many people who all know different outcomes will happen.

    Whilst one of you will be right the vast majority will be wrong, because there are people on every side who know they are right.
    Deep.
    ...is the first half of the phrase that best sums up Labour’s situation right now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.

    >

    >

    >

    > Why are they not?

    >

    >

    >

    > Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics

    >

    > Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit

    >

    > Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out

    >

    > Corbyn mismanagement of his party.

    >

    > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?



    The negatives for labour are trying to appease both remain and leave and one Jeremy Corbyn

    I’d have thought both Labour and the Conservatives have an interest in burying Brexit as the overtowering issue and move onto national politics again.

    Whether they will or not? I still have my doubts.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    Just woken up.

    Wow, I was not expecting to see Labour down in seats at this stage. Poor night for Tories as expected but that will console them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    I wonder what the swing against Labour in Bristol West would be like if there was a by election there tommorow. Probably the least safe very safe seat they have right now
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    > @Pulpstar said:
    > I wonder what the swing against Labour in Bristol West would be like if there was a by election there tommorow. Probably the least safe very safe seat they have right now

    The Greens would win it at a by-election.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Scott_P said:

    So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?

    https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1124194312793800704

    Oh...
    Yes my personally being supportive of a second referendum, signing the petition to revoke and sharing it on here (not the first person to do so) all part of a long play...

    I have made clear from the start Labour winning is a bigger priority to me than not having Brexit, just my personal hope was to get both. If I can't have both then I will prioritise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    > @RobD said:
    > > @IanB2 said:
    > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > > >
    > > > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > What's your alternative plan?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Leave the government to twist in the wind? That's working out less when than you might have hoped.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Vote TMay's deal through as is? You're already losing the Leave 20% of your vote, now you get to lose the Remain 80% too.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Do the customs union deal with TMay? The Tories will take your votes, change their leader and renege, which is the same as voting for TMay's deal as is except you'll look like chumps.
    > > >
    > > > Leave the government twist in the wind, it isn't Labours job to figure it out. If pushing towards remain is proving unpopular then we should pull back from it.
    > > >
    > > > Although to clarify I'm not saying I'm anti 2nd ref, just less in favour of a referendum than I was previously.
    > >
    > > When Labour comes to analyse the results, I think they will conclude the opposite. Clearly the party is losing people from both ends, so the fence looks less attractive than it did. I suspect they are losing more Remain voters - including in Leave areas - and where they are losing leave voters these are irretrievable in the medium term as Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories, let alone prevent such people signing up with Farage when he arrives.
    > >
    > > The only part of its vote Labour can hope to shore up is the remainer side currently switching to LibDem, Green or Indy. Which means backing the PV.
    > >
    > > For sure, there are no votes in helping the Tories to deliver May’s deal.
    >
    > Wasn't there a plot earlier showing the reverse is true, that their share is down more in Leave seats? Fair point that they can't out-Brexit the Tories though!

    In Sunderland Lab lost seats to LDs and Greens, so even on the purple coast are losing votes to Remain parties.

    It looks to me that in many parts of the country people are against one party states on councils. Partly this may be because no national vote alongside this time.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited May 2019
    I wonder if he's got another 'episode' coming on.....

    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/1124186616044621824
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    > @logical_song said:
    > > @Scott_P said:
    > > https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1124109727154286592
    >
    > "taking a photo of a ballot paper’s unique identification number is against the rules. People face a fine of £5,000 or six months in prison if they reveal how someone else voted, even accidentally."
    > Hopefully no identification marks visible.

    I am wondering whether that is fake. The capital letters looks to be in the same handwriting on several of the papers - the double down scored Bs, strangely shaped Fs and Es with crossbars recur.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    TGOHF said:

    Very poor result for Corbyn in Stoke where he began his campaign with labour losing 5 seats and conservatives gaining 8.



    Very poor night for the conservatives but labour looking nowhere near government.



    Congratulations to the Lib Dems, Greens and Independents.



    It could and should have been all so different if the ERG had voted for the WDA on the first vote and not played fast and lose with the deal. JRM getting a kicking from the Lib Dems is ironic and I expect the rest of the day to continue in the same vein with many more conservative loses to the Lib Dems and labour in the doldrums



    If the conservatives and labour mps have any sense they need to pass the WDA very quickly and leave by the 30th June

    Big G continues to blame the diner for not eating a shit sandwich rather than the chef who prepared said delicacy....
    The Conservative restaurant could have a three Michelin Star chef, but such a star would find it impossible to serve good food when her cooks are grabbing the sh*t out of the toilets and putting it onto mouldy bread, and the waiters (led by JRM) are wiping their dribbling, snotty little noses on the bread ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,731

    I have made clear from the start Labour winning is a bigger priority to me than not having Brexit, just my personal hope was to get both. If I can't have both then I will prioritise.

    Sorry, genuine question - do you mean you would like Labour to win AND to stay in the EU, but Labour winning matters more?

    Because it isn't terribly clear.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    > @Foxy said:
    > > @RobD said:
    > > > @IanB2 said:
    > > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > > > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Local election results are pushing me away from a 2nd referendum position, not off it completely but some discouragement there.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > What's your alternative plan?
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Leave the government to twist in the wind? That's working out less when than you might have hoped.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Vote TMay's deal through as is? You're already losing the Leave 20% of your vote, now you get to lose the Remain 80% too.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Do the customs union deal with TMay? The Tories will take your votes, change their leader and renege, which is the same as voting for TMay's deal as is except you'll look like chumps.
    > > > >
    > > > > Leave the government twist in the wind, it isn't Labours job to figure it out. If pushing towards remain is proving unpopular then we should pull back from it.
    > > > >
    > > > > Although to clarify I'm not saying I'm anti 2nd ref, just less in favour of a referendum than I was previously.
    > > >
    > > > When Labour comes to analyse the results, I think they will conclude the opposite. Clearly the party is losing people from both ends, so the fence looks less attractive than it did. I suspect they are losing more Remain voters - including in Leave areas - and where they are losing leave voters these are irretrievable in the medium term as Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories, let alone prevent such people signing up with Farage when he arrives.
    > > >
    > > > The only part of its vote Labour can hope to shore up is the remainer side currently switching to LibDem, Green or Indy. Which means backing the PV.
    > > >
    > > > For sure, there are no votes in helping the Tories to deliver May’s deal.
    > >
    > > Wasn't there a plot earlier showing the reverse is true, that their share is down more in Leave seats? Fair point that they can't out-Brexit the Tories though!
    >
    > In Sunderland Lab lost seats to LDs and Greens, so even on the purple coast are losing votes to Remain parties.
    >
    > It looks to me that in many parts of the country people are against one party states on councils. Partly this may be because no national vote alongside this time.

    And let’s not make the HY mistake of assuming there aren’t any Remain voters in leave seats?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    edited May 2019
    > @IanB2 said:
    > > @El_Capitano said:
    > > I seem to recall seeing that NPXMP was standing as a councillor, one assumes in Broxtowe.. Did he get a Safe? seat?
    > >
    > >
    > > Not in Broxtowe, in the Home Counties.
    >
    >
    > Waverley DC. Count starts in a couple of hours time.

    I suspect a couple of hours time is when the real pain starts for the Tories.

    The Shire Tories are going to be visited by the hordes of the Orange Orcs. Going to be messy. Lots of councils to lose lots of councillors.

    Labour not a presence, so nothing much more for them to lose.

    Tories thinking last night wasn't too bad are missing that they are being crushed by the pincers of the Should-be-Dead: both Farage and the LibDems have been re-awoken by May. That is the measure of her shiteness.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    IanB2 said:

    > @logical_song said:

    > > @Scott_P said:

    > >



    >

    > "taking a photo of a ballot paper’s unique identification number is against the rules. People face a fine of £5,000 or six months in prison if they reveal how someone else voted, even accidentally."

    > Hopefully no identification marks visible.



    I am wondering whether that is fake. The capital letters looks to be in the same handwriting on several of the papers - the double down scored Bs, strangely shaped Fs and Es with crossbars recur.
    Here's some more:

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/people-spoiled-ballot-papers-words-16218548
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?
    >
    >
    > https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1124194312793800704
    >
    >
    >
    > Oh...
    >
    > Yes my personally being supportive of a second referendum, signing the petition to revoke and sharing it on here (not the first person to do so) all part of a long play...
    >
    > I have made clear from the start Labour winning is a bigger priority to me than not having Brexit, just my personal hope was to get both. If I can't have both then I will prioritise.

    and if you cannot have Brexit or Labour winning, you will still support a loser like Corbyn..
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,179
    Another Conservative massacre: the Vale of the White Horse has gone Lib Dem by a big margin, Wessex seems to be swinging :-)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    > @IanB2 said:

    > > @El_Capitano said:

    > > I seem to recall seeing that NPXMP was standing as a councillor, one assumes in Broxtowe.. Did he get a Safe? seat?

    > >

    > >

    > > Not in Broxtowe, in the Home Counties.

    >

    >

    > Waverley DC. Count starts in a couple of hours time.



    I suspect a couple of hours time is when the real pain starts for the Tories.



    The Shire Tories are going to be visited by the hordes of the Orange Orcs. Going to be messy. Lots of councils to lose lots of councillors.



    Labour not a presence, so nothing much more for them to lose.



    Tories thinking last night wasn't too bad are missing that they are being crushed by the pincers of the Should-be-Dead: both Farage and the LibDems have been re-awoken by May. That is the measure of her shiteness.

    Yes. Exactly that.

    Meanwhile:

    http://twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/1124196850695852034
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2019
    With independents doing so well, I wouldn't like to be a Tory candidate in somewhere like Herefordshire where no less than 17 of the wards are two candidate contests between the Conservatives and an independent of one type or another.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    > @MarqueeMark said:
    > Ashfield - Labour go from 22 to 2.
    >
    > Now Ashfield Independents 30
    > Conservatives 3
    > Labour 2
    >
    > A model for others to copy across the country.....

    The AIs, led by a former LD, also kill off the final 5 LD councillors on the Council.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Apparently Labour lost all 6 of their seats on East Yorkshire council last night.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    Theresa May has done what I believed to be impossible, it looks like she has lost South Oxfordshire.

    So far it's at 10 Lib Dems, 4 Conservative, 3 Residents, 3 Independents, 1 Grn

    In 2015 it went 33 Con, 1 LD, 1 Lab, 1 Resident.

    The Conservatives have *never* not been the largest party, and have had a majority from 1976 to 2019 bar 8 years just short of one in 1995-2003.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Labour are losing councillors?

    That's an absolutely dreadful performance. How often does an Opposition lose councillors?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    ydoethur said:

    I have made clear from the start Labour winning is a bigger priority to me than not having Brexit, just my personal hope was to get both. If I can't have both then I will prioritise.

    Sorry, genuine question - do you mean you would like Labour to win AND to stay in the EU, but Labour winning matters more?

    Because it isn't terribly clear.
    Did a partial rewrite at one point which made it unclear.

    I would like Lab to win and to stay in the EU. Lab winning matters more.



  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    > @Cicero said:
    > Another Conservative massacre: the Vale of the White Horse has gone Lib Dem by a big margin, Wessex seems to be swinging :-)

    Anywhere that voted Remain, like Vale of White Horse, is going to swing to the LDs in a big way.
  • So are all those on here who were claiming that Labour didn't have to worry about their WWC base because it didn't really exist going to change their tune?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    > @Casino_Royale said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Why are they not?
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Corbyn mismanagement of his party.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?
    >
    >
    >
    > The negatives for labour are trying to appease both remain and leave and one Jeremy Corbyn
    >
    > I’d have thought both Labour and the Conservatives have an interest in burying Brexit as the overtowering issue and move onto national politics again.
    >
    > Whether they will or not? I still have my doubts.

    Going to be plenty of Labour MPs in Leave-voting seats cacking themselves. Suspect they will be happy enough to ditch the idea of getting a CU if they can secure environmental and workers' rights safeguards tagged onto May's Shit Deal.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    > @OblitusSumMe said:
    > Labour are losing councillors?
    >
    > That's an absolutely dreadful performance. How often does an Opposition lose councillors?

    They were almost wiped out on Ashfield council, they lost seats in Bolsover, Stoke-on-Trent, Walsall, East Yorkshire, Bolton, Hartlepool, Sunderland.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,731
    Can we please have a massacre in Cannock Chase as well? Getting rid of the awesomely selfish Labour council who pay for themselves to have chauffeur driven Mercedes while cutting out services would be a tremendous result.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    > @ydoethur said:
    > Can we please have a massacre in Cannock Chase as well? Getting rid of the awesomely selfish Labour council who pay for themselves to have chauffeur driven Mercedes while cutting out services would be a tremendous result.

    The result is due at 2pm.

    https://election.pressassociation.com/local-elections-declaration-time/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    > @Scott_P said:
    > https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1124170279545077761

    A notable omission from that list...
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    > @AndyJS said:
    > A pity the LDs were only standing in about 57% of seats. I wasn't able to vote for them in my area for instance.

    I wouldn't have voted for them but I was surprised that of 7 candidates in my ward there was no LibDem.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    > @MarqueeMark said:
    > > @IanB2 said:
    > > > @El_Capitano said:
    > > > I seem to recall seeing that NPXMP was standing as a councillor, one assumes in Broxtowe.. Did he get a Safe? seat?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Not in Broxtowe, in the Home Counties.
    > >
    > >
    > > Waverley DC. Count starts in a couple of hours time.
    >
    > I suspect a couple of hours time is when the real pain starts for the Tories.
    >
    > The Shire Tories are going to be visited by the hordes of the Orange Orcs. Going to be messy. Lots of councils to lose lots of councillors.
    >
    > Labour not a presence, so nothing much more for them to lose.
    >
    > Tories thinking last night wasn't too bad are missing that they are being crushed by the pincers of the Should-be-Dead: both Farage and the LibDems have been re-awoken by May. That is the measure of her shiteness.
    >
    >

    Yes and No. The Conservatives will suffer in Remain-voting Shire districts, but get off far more lightly in Leave-voting districts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,731

    ydoethur said:

    I have made clear from the start Labour winning is a bigger priority to me than not having Brexit, just my personal hope was to get both. If I can't have both then I will prioritise.

    Sorry, genuine question - do you mean you would like Labour to win AND to stay in the EU, but Labour winning matters more?

    Because it isn't terribly clear.
    Did a partial rewrite at one point which made it unclear.

    I would like Lab to win and to stay in the EU. Lab winning matters more.
    Thanks.

    Tends to confirm NPXMP's oft-repeated claim that when the last comes to the last Brexit is a secondary issue for Lab voters.

  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    > @TheJezziah said:

    > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?

    >

    >

    >



    >

    >

    >

    > Oh...

    >

    > Yes my personally being supportive of a second referendum, signing the petition to revoke and sharing it on here (not the first person to do so) all part of a long play...

    >

    > I have made clear from the start Labour winning is a bigger priority to me than not having Brexit, just my personal hope was to get both. If I can't have both then I will prioritise.



    and if you cannot have Brexit or Labour winning, you will still support a loser like Corbyn..
    My political support isn't based on chance of winning... I would have gone into the 2017 election a Tory supporter otherwise.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,712
    > @MarqueeMark said:
    > > @Casino_Royale said:
    > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > >
    > > > To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > Why are they not?
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > Corbyn mismanagement of his party.
    > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > The negatives for labour are trying to appease both remain and leave and one Jeremy Corbyn
    > >
    > > I’d have thought both Labour and the Conservatives have an interest in burying Brexit as the overtowering issue and move onto national politics again.
    > >
    > > Whether they will or not? I still have my doubts.
    >
    > Going to be plenty of Labour MPs in Leave-voting seats cacking themselves. Suspect they will be happy enough to ditch the idea of getting a CU if they can secure environmental and workers' rights safeguards tagged onto May's Shit Deal.

    Lab were never going to gain. Last time was a GE and LDs still being punished for being in bed with baby eaters. Was obvious that would unwind this time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. P, if UKIP had been decimated their results would be significantly better.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    > @ydoethur said:
    > Can we please have a massacre in Cannock Chase as well? Getting rid of the awesomely selfish Labour council who pay for themselves to have chauffeur driven Mercedes while cutting out services would be a tremendous result.

    Labour seem to be going backwards in the West Midlands, so that is quite possible.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,179
    So Cotswold in Glos, Vale of the White Hirse and South Oxfordshire in Oxon... Any other surprises from the Tory heartlands still to come?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    > @Cicero said:
    > So Cotswold in Glos, Vale of the White Hirse and South Oxfordshire in Oxon... Any other surprises from the Tory heartlands still to come?

    Vale of the White Hearse?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,731
    AndyJS said:

    > @ydoethur said:

    > Can we please have a massacre in Cannock Chase as well? Getting rid of the awesomely selfish Labour council who pay for themselves to have chauffeur driven Mercedes while cutting out services would be a tremendous result.



    The result is due at 2pm.



    https://election.pressassociation.com/local-elections-declaration-time/

    Bugger, I've got Year 12 Ethics.

    Do you suppose they'll notice if I switch from Emmanuel Kant to 'Yeah, take that mother****ers' in mid sentence if it's a good result?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    > @AndyJS said:
    > > @OblitusSumMe said:
    > > Labour are losing councillors?
    > >
    > > That's an absolutely dreadful performance. How often does an Opposition lose councillors?
    >
    > They were almost wiped out on Ashfield council, they lost seats in Bolsover, Stoke-on-Trent, Walsall, East Yorkshire, Bolton, Hartlepool, Sunderland.

    The north losing patience with Labour over Brexit
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    > @Cicero said:
    > So Cotswold in Glos, Vale of the White Hirse and South Oxfordshire in Oxon... Any other surprises from the Tory heartlands still to come?

    Plenty.

    But if I told you, they wouldn't be a surprise...
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    > @bigjohnowls said:
    > > @MarqueeMark said:
    > > > @Casino_Royale said:
    > > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > > >
    > > > > To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Why are they not?
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Corbyn mismanagement of his party.
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > The negatives for labour are trying to appease both remain and leave and one Jeremy Corbyn
    > > >
    > > > I’d have thought both Labour and the Conservatives have an interest in burying Brexit as the overtowering issue and move onto national politics again.
    > > >
    > > > Whether they will or not? I still have my doubts.
    > >
    > > Going to be plenty of Labour MPs in Leave-voting seats cacking themselves. Suspect they will be happy enough to ditch the idea of getting a CU if they can secure environmental and workers' rights safeguards tagged onto May's Shit Deal.
    >
    > Lab were never going to gain. Last time was a GE and LDs still being punished for being in bed with baby eaters. Was obvious that would unwind this time.

    Surely if Labour want to win a GE they need to be improving on the GE of 2015 results?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    > @TheJezziah said:
    > > @TheJezziah said:
    >
    > > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1124194312793800704
    >
    >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Oh...
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Yes my personally being supportive of a second referendum, signing the petition to revoke and sharing it on here (not the first person to do so) all part of a long play...
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I have made clear from the start Labour winning is a bigger priority to me than not having Brexit, just my personal hope was to get both. If I can't have both then I will prioritise.
    >
    >
    >
    > and if you cannot have Brexit or Labour winning, you will still support a loser like Corbyn..
    >
    > My political support isn't based on chance of winning... I would have gone into the 2017 election a Tory supporter otherwise.


    Well either you support a loser like Corbyn, knowing he cannot win, or you choose someone else in Labour to lead who can. Its not rocket science.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    > @bigjohnowls said:
    > > @MarqueeMark said:
    > > > @Casino_Royale said:
    > > > > @TheJezziah said:
    > > >
    > > > > To form a government, Labour should be gaining seats. Lots of them.
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Why are they not?
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Brexit chaos denying oxygen to std politics
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Labour unable to stick to a coherent position on Brexit
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Corbyn talking to and super serving his core supporters, rather than reaching out
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Corbyn mismanagement of his party.
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > > So we agree about the push towards remain being a negative then?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > The negatives for labour are trying to appease both remain and leave and one Jeremy Corbyn
    > > >
    > > > I’d have thought both Labour and the Conservatives have an interest in burying Brexit as the overtowering issue and move onto national politics again.
    > > >
    > > > Whether they will or not? I still have my doubts.
    > >
    > > Going to be plenty of Labour MPs in Leave-voting seats cacking themselves. Suspect they will be happy enough to ditch the idea of getting a CU if they can secure environmental and workers' rights safeguards tagged onto May's Shit Deal.
    >
    > Lab were never going to gain. Last time was a GE and LDs still being punished for being in bed with baby eaters. Was obvious that would unwind this time.

    But labour has to do well to be seen as a government in waiting and right now they lack credibility on brexit and Corbyn has been found out
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,876
    In 2017 a lot of Remain supporters lent Labour their votes. It is unlikely to happen again.
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