politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Bye-bye by-elections? Part 2. MPs who resigned their seats and
Comments
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The indicative votes were largely sabotaged by the government whipping Conservative MPs to vote against every option that stood a chance of getting a majority. Labour MPs are no more obliged to compromise their view of what would constitute an appropriate deal than Conservative MPs.JackJack said:
Then how come so many voted against every Brexit option in the indicative votes?AlastairMeeks said:
Labour backbenchers have by and large followed their leader’s line on Brexit.JackJack said:
As the Labour leadership do. The issue is with the Remain backbenches.AlastairMeeks said:
As Labour do.JackJack said:
They are welcome to oppose the deal as long as they support another form of possible Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers are allowed to oppose the deal, so are Remainers.JackJack said:
Every Leaver has supported either Deal or No Deal, which implements the result of the referendum. If Remainers had done the same, we would have been out by now. This is especially true of the Allens, Umunnas, Soubrys of this world, who promised to respect the referendum and then put two fingers up to the electorate after they got reelected.kle4 said:
That being the 'only' reason for support being down strikes me as somewhat optimistic. And is sabotage only underhanded when done by Remainers, given there's been plenty of sabotage by leavers too?JackJack said:
The only reason support for Leave is down is because the underhanded sabotage of Remainers, combined with completely unbalanced coverage by the BBC, has made a small fraction of Leavers disillusioned with the whole political process of it. As soon as purdah started last time, the gap started to close, as it would in a second referendum.nico67 said:
True . The poll also showed a 12 point lead for Remain over Leave in another EU ref . The will of the people guff that’s been cremated looks even more pathetic given poll after poll for the last 18 months shows not a single lead for the Leave side .Stark_Dawning said:
Brexit will happen, but the bitter irony is that it will be delivered contrary to the will of the people.0 -
The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/11222295384597217280 -
As I recall almost every Labour MP voted for Labour’s own Brexit option. Yes, it’s fanciful, but no more so than the half of the Tory Party still chasing Brady/Malthouse long after it is stone dead or the other half chasing no deal despite ample evidence that no government or parliament would ever take us there.JackJack said:
Then how come so many voted against every Brexit option in the indicative votes?AlastairMeeks said:
Labour backbenchers have by and large followed their leader’s line on Brexit.JackJack said:
As the Labour leadership do. The issue is with the Remain backbenches.AlastairMeeks said:
As Labour do.JackJack said:
They are welcome to oppose the deal as long as they support another form of possible Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers are allowed to oppose the deal, so are Remainers.JackJack said:
Every Leaver has supported either Deal or No Deal, which implements the result of the referendum. If Remainers had done the same, we would have been out by now. This is especially true of the Allens, Umunnas, Soubrys of this world, who promised to respect the referendum and then put two fingers up to the electorate after they got reelected.kle4 said:
That being the 'only' reason for support being down strikes me as somewhat optimistic. And is sabotage only underhanded when done by Remainers, given there's been plenty of sabotage by leavers too?JackJack said:
The only reason support for Leave is down is because the underhanded sabotage of Remainers, combined with completely unbalanced coverage by the BBC, has made a small fraction of Leavers disillusioned with the whole political process of it. As soon as purdah started last time, the gap started to close, as it would in a second referendum.nico67 said:
for the Leave side .Stark_Dawning said:
Brexit will happen, but the bitter irony is that it will be delivered contrary to the will of the people.TheScreamingEagles said:More than half the public (55%) now think it would have been better never to
Leavers have turned Brexit into an embarrassing and damaging fiasco, to the point where it is entirely legitimate to ask the question whether we should now go through with it, or not. The alternative, as said upthread, is that it gets forced upon a population that now realises what a mistake it would be.0 -
Following in the Scottish government's footsteps?Scott_P said:The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/11222295384597217280 -
Interesting poll. Most people now wish the referendum had never happened, and 49% of Tories think it was a bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/public-thinks-eu-referendum-was-a-bad-idea-says-poll0 -
You mean it is disgusting that in future we will treat all foreign nationals equally in relation to paying for higher education?Scott_P said:The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/11222295384597217280 -
Attractive? With those sticky out ears? People must be blind.TheJezziah said:
I'd never looked it up but I assumed Milne was in his 40's, that is pretty impressive.williamglenn said:
Apparently people are just jealous of Milne's youthful looks.Dura_Ace said:
It is more a question of is it a net gain in the key marginals they need to win a GE. Some slide rule jockey is going to have to answer that as I am fucked if I know. Every percentage point that the polls move to Remain is another turn of the thumbscrew for the Corbyn-Milne symbiote though.Sean_F said:
Current Labour voters who support Remain like Corbyn, and will stick with him for other reasons, despite his lack of enthusiasm for the EU. The question is whether Labour would gain in net terms by overtly opposing Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:It’s remarkable how Leavers can convince themselves that it would not be fruitful for political parties to pursue a segment of the electorate that all recent polls suggest currently form a majority of the electorate and where there is abundant evidence that many feel passionately about the subject.
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1122090404634144768
Although the main reason Milne disliked is his political views, if he was more supportive of war and the occupation of Palestine he wouldn't be targeted. Also being close to Corbyn will get you attacked in the media, if he was just working at the Guardian there would be much less reason to target him.
If he was a centrist you would have Nick Cohen writing an article complaining about people targeting him! (as per my article and extract earlier)0 -
I suggested back in February that the TIG MPs had erred in not following the example of the UKIP defectors by forcing by elections. I suspect that the optimum time for doing that has now passed as public attention has wandered elsewhere- and they now face the very real prospect of disappearing from the radar for most people in the absence of any sudden surge on 23rd May. The fate of Veritas looms ahead for them , and they well lack any meaningful prescence at the General Election.0
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A pity they moved the original Deltic from the Science Museum! BTW my first trainset was a Lima class 55 "Fife & Forfar Yeomanry".OnlyLivingBoy said:
Nice. I went a few years back when they had 55019. There is no more beautiful sight in the world than a class 55.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, not this time, only a Class 25 as guest, plus a Class 37, Class 31, Class 47, class 117 DMU and a Class 20. Class 45 on display, plus 03 shunter. There was also a 1959 tube stock driving car on display too. Oh, and the former LT electric loco L11 is in new bright yellow garb outside Epping Car Park!OnlyLivingBoy said:
Did they have a Deltic again this year?Sunil_Prasannan said:Ishmael_Z said:Katharine Stewart Murray is an interesting woman. Duchess of Atholl in her spare time, militant *opponent* of women's suffrage, first Scottish woman MP. The circumstances of her resigning were: "She resigned the Conservative Whip first in 1935 over the India Bill and the "national-socialist tendency" of the government's domestic policy. Resuming the Whip, she resigned it again in 1938 in opposition to Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement of Adolf Hitler and to the Anglo-Italian agreement. According to her biography, A Working Partnership she was then deselected by her local party. She took Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds on 28 November 1938. She stood unsuccessfully in the subsequent by-election as an Independent candidate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Stewart-Murray,_Duchess_of_Atholl
Interesting article thanks Sunil
You're welcome! Would have replied earlier if I weren't at the Epping Ongar Diesel Gala!GIN1138 said:Nice to see Sunil fulfilling his destiny and taking his rightful place at OGHs side.
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Er, what Brexit?Scott_P said:The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/1122229538459721728 -1 -
Pointless really. It has happened and needs dealing withwilliamglenn said:Interesting poll. Most people now wish the referendum had never happened, and 49% of Tories think it was a bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/public-thinks-eu-referendum-was-a-bad-idea-says-poll0 -
Not disgusting. But actively attempting to sabotage a major export, which adds hugely to our worldwide influence and soft power, may be described as bloody stupid. I just don't, for the life of me, understand this fixation with foreign students.brendan16 said:
You mean it is disgusting that in future we will treat all foreign nationals equally in relation to paying for higher education?Scott_P said:The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/1122229538459721728
Other countries try to recruit them.0 -
Well, we know you wish it had never happened.williamglenn said:Interesting poll. Most people now wish the referendum had never happened, and 49% of Tories think it was a bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/public-thinks-eu-referendum-was-a-bad-idea-says-poll0 -
I did too it got rid of the Tory majoritykle4 said:
Of course.rcs1000 said:
It might have been toxic,AmpfieldAndy said:
That would be the same Nick Timothy who was one of May’s most toxic advisers and wrote the toxic 2017 Tory Manifesto. Best ignored.Stark_Dawning said:
Am I reading this correctly? Nick Timothy is now urging the Tories to rename themselves the National Party and go after the English rural redneck vote. I'm amazed he thinks such a demographic even exists, let alone be capable of winning you an election.Scott_P said:A mathematical analysis that predicts the Tories rebranding as the Little England party will cost them more votes than they won as Cameroons.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1122207770365788160
I, for one, am shocked...
But at least it was honest about the challenges of paying for an ageing population.
It seems the best way to gain votes is simply to lie to the people about the challenges ahead.
That policy may well have needed work, and they only dared mention it because they thought they would win big, but I did appreciate that they were willing to mention it.0 -
I wish it had not happened but life does not give you hindsightFloater said:
Well, we know you wish it had never happened.williamglenn said:Interesting poll. Most people now wish the referendum had never happened, and 49% of Tories think it was a bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/public-thinks-eu-referendum-was-a-bad-idea-says-poll
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Have you visited the Deltic Society at Barrow Hill?Sunil_Prasannan said:
A pity they moved the original Deltic from the Science Museum! BTW my first trainset was a Lima class 55 "Fife & Forfar Yeomanry".OnlyLivingBoy said:
Nice. I went a few years back when they had 55019. There is no more beautiful sight in the world than a class 55.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, not this time, only a Class 25 as guest, plus a Class 37, Class 31, Class 47, class 117 DMU and a Class 20. Class 45 on display, plus 03 shunter. There was also a 1959 tube stock driving car on display too. Oh, and the former LT electric loco L11 is in new bright yellow garb outside Epping Car Park!OnlyLivingBoy said:
Did they have a Deltic again this year?Sunil_Prasannan said:Ishmael_Z said:Katharine Stewart Murray is an interesting woman. Duchess of Atholl in her spare time, militant *opponent* of women's suffrage, first Scottish woman MP. The circumstances of her resigning were: "She resigned the Conservative Whip first in 1935 over the India Bill and the "national-socialist tendency" of the government's domestic policy. Resuming the Whip, she resigned it again in 1938 in opposition to Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement of Adolf Hitler and to the Anglo-Italian agreement. According to her biography, A Working Partnership she was then deselected by her local party. She took Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds on 28 November 1938. She stood unsuccessfully in the subsequent by-election as an Independent candidate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Stewart-Murray,_Duchess_of_Atholl
Interesting article thanks Sunil
You're welcome! Would have replied earlier if I weren't at the Epping Ongar Diesel Gala!GIN1138 said:Nice to see Sunil fulfilling his destiny and taking his rightful place at OGHs side.
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Anyway, I had a very enjoyable day’s racing at Sandown - though not a profitable one.
And I did see Altior win his 20th consecutive race. What a horse!!
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I
Or it means more places for students from across the globe who will pay full fees and not need subsidising by the taxpayer. Why only subsidise students from 27 other nations?dixiedean said:
Not disgusting. But actively attempting to sabotage a major export, which adds hugely to our worldwide influence and soft power, may be described as bloody stupid. I just don't, for the life of me, understand this fixation with foreign students.brendan16 said:
You mean it is disgusting that in future we will treat all foreign nationals equally in relation to paying for higher education?Scott_P said:The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/1122229538459721728
Other countries try to recruit them.
In Scotland of course presumably this will also end the farcical situation whereby young English, Welsh and NI young people whose parents taxes help fund free tuition there have to pay for their tuition whereas EU resident nationals whose parents pay nothing to the UK exchequer get free tuition at Scottish unis.0 -
Why should they get subsidies though?Scott_P said:The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/11222295384597217280 -
The reason Milne is attacked is because he is a propagandist and liar for a regime of mass murder and racial cleansing. He is a stupider, richer and better connected version of David Irving.TheJezziah said:Although the main reason Milne disliked is his political views, if he was more supportive of war and the occupation of Palestine he wouldn't be targeted. Also being close to Corbyn will get you attacked in the media, if he was just working at the Guardian there would be much less reason to target him.
If he was a centrist you would have Nick Cohen writing an article complaining about people targeting him! (as per my article and extract earlier)
Perhaps it is worth reflecting that one of the first reasons Corbyn was attacked in the media was for appointing Milne. His closeness to an apologist for genocide and totalitarianism hurt him - not the other way around.0 -
No I haven't, never heard of them until just now!bigjohnowls said:
Have you visited the Deltic Society at Barrow Hill?Sunil_Prasannan said:
A pity they moved the original Deltic from the Science Museum! BTW my first trainset was a Lima class 55 "Fife & Forfar Yeomanry".OnlyLivingBoy said:
Nice. I went a few years back when they had 55019. There is no more beautiful sight in the world than a class 55.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, not this time, only a Class 25 as guest, plus a Class 37, Class 31, Class 47, class 117 DMU and a Class 20. Class 45 on display, plus 03 shunter. There was also a 1959 tube stock driving car on display too. Oh, and the former LT electric loco L11 is in new bright yellow garb outside Epping Car Park!OnlyLivingBoy said:
Did they have a Deltic again this year?Sunil_Prasannan said:Ishmael_Z said:Katharine Stewart Murray is an interesting woman. Duchess of Atholl in her spare time, militant *opponent* of women's suffrage, first Scottish woman MP. The circumstances of her resigning were: "She resigned the Conservative Whip first in 1935 over the India Bill and the "national-socialist tendency" of the government's domestic policy. Resuming the Whip, she resigned it again in 1938 in opposition to Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement of Adolf Hitler and to the Anglo-Italian agreement. According to her biography, A Working Partnership she was then deselected by her local party. She took Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds on 28 November 1938. She stood unsuccessfully in the subsequent by-election as an Independent candidate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Stewart-Murray,_Duchess_of_Atholl
Interesting article thanks Sunil
You're welcome! Would have replied earlier if I weren't at the Epping Ongar Diesel Gala!GIN1138 said:Nice to see Sunil fulfilling his destiny and taking his rightful place at OGHs side.
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I'm amazed at that tweet. When did Lord Cashcroft learn to read?williamglenn said:0 -
Are you and he Polls apart?ydoethur said:
I'm amazed at that tweet. When did Lord Cashcroft learn to read?williamglenn said:0 -
I think it wold actually be unlawful to grant subsidies to the EU26.Charles said:
Why should they get subsidies though?Scott_P said:The Tory Little Englanders have produced their latest policy wheeze,,,
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/11222295384597217280 -
Turns out it’s not a UK political story but about lion farms.ydoethur said:
I'm amazed at that tweet. When did Lord Cashcroft learn to read?williamglenn said:0 -
The front page story is about his exposé of lion farms.williamglenn said:0 -
I was just Hungary for more information, and Czeching (given his history of apparent illiteracy) that the noble lord was not telling porkies (out of the mouths of dead porkies..)?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Are you and he Polls apart?ydoethur said:
I'm amazed at that tweet. When did Lord Cashcroft learn to read?williamglenn said:0 -
Surely you mean 'the mane story?'AlastairMeeks said:
The front page story is about his exposé of lion farms.williamglenn said:0 -
I expect you typed that quip out with pride.ydoethur said:
Surely you mean 'the mane story?'AlastairMeeks said:
The front page story is about his exposé of lion farms.williamglenn said:0 -
I think the was a certain roar in my voice. But it tailed off.AlastairMeeks said:
I expect you typed that quip out with pride.ydoethur said:
Surely you mean 'the mane story?'AlastairMeeks said:
The front page story is about his exposé of lion farms.williamglenn said:0 -
For balance will the Mail have to do a Tigger story next week?0
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A paper of that stripe doesn't do balance.williamglenn said:For balance will the Mail have to do a Tigger story next week?
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Brexit - Hard as Nails (Brexit/UKIP)............... 34% Survation / 31% Opinium
Brexit - No Customs Union (Tory)................. 16% Survation / 14% Opinium
Brexit - Customs Union (Labour) ...................27% Survation / 28% Opinium
Remain - EU and UK - (CUK/Green/Lib Dem) 16% Survation / 20% Opinium
Remain - EU, not UK - (SNP)............................ 3% Survation / 5% Opinium
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A job for a cub reporter.williamglenn said:For balance will the Mail have to do a Tigger story next week?
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Yes,it is almost as if Brexit is not the solution to our economic problems. Indeed by being so dependent on the votes of the retired, the Conservatives will not be able to squeeze the elderly.AmpfieldAndy said:
It’s only impossible to counter if you don’t you don’t grow the economy faster than Gov spending or if you don’t means test benefits or introduce state health insurance like most developed economies. The NHS was never intended to be free at the point of delivery for everyone for everything and the waste is enormous - litigation, locums, drugs procured then scrapped, micro management of doctors etc.rcs1000 said:
Government spending is risingAmpfieldAndy said:Hammond has simply pursued Osborne’s policies - allowing Gov spending to escalate and funding it by frozen allowances and big hikes in indirect taxes. Neither did anything to attract inward investment, boost productivity or champion consumer rights and both have penalised savers to favour borrowers. Both were indistinguishable from Blairite Labour. Hammond has been negligent in combatting McDonnell’s Mickey Mouse economics and has given McDonnell free rein in peddling his economic illiteracy. He’s useless.
Pushing up indirect taxes to base tax on consumption would be fine but not if you are leaving direct tax unchanged and freezing allowances. That’s the worst of both worlds.
Saving rates have collapsed and household debt is now higher than it was before the crash.
R&D is internationally uncompetitive the U.K. Osborne’s tax credit scheme works fine for pharma but is a disaster for manufacturing. As a former PLC board director we nearly always invested overseas rather than the U.K. because the U.K. was relatively uncompetitive - poor infrastructure, high energy costs, lack of employee productivity, uncompetitive R&D etc etc
With current immigration the working age population is stable, and the population growth is of the elderly, until it stabilised in the 2040s. These costs cannot be avoided, whether paid for by state or citizen, the only argument is about how those costs are allocated.
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/978302412363624448?s=19
If it is any consolation, just about every country on earth is in the same boat.0 -
Labour are more like the Mavis Wilton “Don’t really know” party on Brexit.thecommissioner said:Brexit - Hard as Nails (Brexit/UKIP)............... 34% Survation / 31% Opinium
Brexit - No Customs Union (Tory)................. 16% Survation / 14% Opinium
Brexit - Customs Union (Labour) ...................27% Survation / 28% Opinium
Remain - EU and UK - (CUK/Green/Lib Dem) 16% Survation / 20% Opinium
Remain - EU, not UK - (SNP)............................ 3% Survation / 5% Opinium0 -
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There seemed a long paws before you came up with that.Ishmael_Z said:
A job for a cub reporter.williamglenn said:For balance will the Mail have to do a Tigger story next week?
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I always lie. In fact, I am lion to you now!ydoethur said:
I think the was a certain roar in my voice. But it tailed off.AlastairMeeks said:
I expect you typed that quip out with pride.ydoethur said:
Surely you mean 'the mane story?'AlastairMeeks said:
The front page story is about his exposé of lion farms.williamglenn said: 0 -
This thread has offered itself up for re-election... and lost.0
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I pooh pooh such stories.ydoethur said:
A paper of that stripe doesn't do balance.williamglenn said:For balance will the Mail have to do a Tigger story next week?
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Ah I wondered why there was a surge in posts on a lazy Saturday evening. The pun hour is upon us.
Roarsome.0 -
NEW THREAD
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Late evening all
Delighted to see Norwich City back in the Premiership - let's hope they can build and become a permanent fixture in the top flight.
The weekend polling continues to highlight the emergence of the Brexit Party as a powerful political force - polling 14-17% for a party which has barely started is impressive, no doubt. What this will mean for the local elections next Thursday is impossible to know.
Given the Brexit Party is mainly the party of older ex-Conservatives and older people tend to vote there are two possible scenarios - one, a depressed turnout next Thursday as the normally Conservative - voting elderly stay at home or a better than expected performance by the Conservatives as older voters continue to back the party locally even if eschewing them nationally.0 -
Milne is a Nazi?ydoethur said:
The reason Milne is attacked is because he is a propagandist and liar for a regime of mass murder and racial cleansing. He is a stupider, richer and better connected version of David Irving.TheJezziah said:Although the main reason Milne disliked is his political views, if he was more supportive of war and the occupation of Palestine he wouldn't be targeted. Also being close to Corbyn will get you attacked in the media, if he was just working at the Guardian there would be much less reason to target him.
If he was a centrist you would have Nick Cohen writing an article complaining about people targeting him! (as per my article and extract earlier)
Perhaps it is worth reflecting that one of the first reasons Corbyn was attacked in the media was for appointing Milne. His closeness to an apologist for genocide and totalitarianism hurt him - not the other way around.0 -
55006!Sunil_Prasannan said:
A pity they moved the original Deltic from the Science Museum! BTW my first trainset was a Lima class 55 "Fife & Forfar Yeomanry".OnlyLivingBoy said:
Nice. I went a few years back when they had 55019. There is no more beautiful sight in the world than a class 55.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, not this time, only a Class 25 as guest, plus a Class 37, Class 31, Class 47, class 117 DMU and a Class 20. Class 45 on display, plus 03 shunter. There was also a 1959 tube stock driving car on display too. Oh, and the former LT electric loco L11 is in new bright yellow garb outside Epping Car Park!OnlyLivingBoy said:
Did they have a Deltic again this year?Sunil_Prasannan said:Ishmael_Z said:Katharine Stewart Murray is an interesting woman. Duchess of Atholl in her spare time, militant *opponent* of women's suffrage, first Scottish woman MP. The circumstances of her resigning were: "She resigned the Conservative Whip first in 1935 over the India Bill and the "national-socialist tendency" of the government's domestic policy. Resuming the Whip, she resigned it again in 1938 in opposition to Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement of Adolf Hitler and to the Anglo-Italian agreement. According to her biography, A Working Partnership she was then deselected by her local party. She took Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds on 28 November 1938. She stood unsuccessfully in the subsequent by-election as an Independent candidate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Stewart-Murray,_Duchess_of_Atholl
Interesting article thanks Sunil
You're welcome! Would have replied earlier if I weren't at the Epping Ongar Diesel Gala!GIN1138 said:Nice to see Sunil fulfilling his destiny and taking his rightful place at OGHs side.
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So the ones who are able to attract the most migrants are the ones that will do best economically?Foxy said:
Yes,it is almost as if Brexit is not the solution to our economic problems. Indeed by being so dependent on the votes of the retired, the Conservatives will not be able to squeeze the elderly.AmpfieldAndy said:
It’s only impossible to counter if you don’t you don’t grow the economy faster than Gov spending or if you don’t means test benefits or introduce state health insurance like most developed economies. The NHS was never intended to be free at the point of delivery for everyone for everything and the waste is enormous - litigation, locums, drugs procured then scrapped, micro management of doctors etc.rcs1000 said:
Government spending is risingAmpfieldAndy said:Hammond has simply pursued Osborne’s policies - allowing Gov spending to escalate and funding it by frozen allowances and big hikes in indirect taxes. Neither did anything to attract inward investment, boost productivity or champion consumer rights and both have penalised savers to favour borrowers. Both were indistinguishable from Blairite Labour. Hammond has been negligent in combatting McDonnell’s Mickey Mouse economics and has given McDonnell free rein in peddling his economic illiteracy. He’s useless.
Pushing up indirect taxes to base tax on consumption would be fine but not if you are leaving direct tax unchanged and freezing allowances. That’s the worst of both worlds.
Saving rates have collapsed and household debt is now higher than it was before the crash.
R&D is internationally uncompetitive the U.K. Osborne’s tax credit scheme works fine for pharma but is a disaster for manufacturing. As a former PLC board director we nearly always invested overseas rather than the U.K. because the U.K. was relatively uncompetitive - poor infrastructure, high energy costs, lack of employee productivity, uncompetitive R&D etc etc
With current immigration the working age population is stable, and the population growth is of the elderly, until it stabilised in the 2040s. These costs cannot be avoided, whether paid for by state or citizen, the only argument is about how those costs are allocated.
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/978302412363624448?s=19
If it is any consolation, just about every country on earth is in the same boat.0 -
Corbyn was attacked before he appointed Milne, whoever he appointed was very likely to get attacked, even if he had pretty much the opposite views of David Irving.ydoethur said:
The reason Milne is attacked is because he is a propagandist and liar for a regime of mass murder and racial cleansing. He is a stupider, richer and better connected version of David Irving.TheJezziah said:Although the main reason Milne disliked is his political views, if he was more supportive of war and the occupation of Palestine he wouldn't be targeted. Also being close to Corbyn will get you attacked in the media, if he was just working at the Guardian there would be much less reason to target him.
If he was a centrist you would have Nick Cohen writing an article complaining about people targeting him! (as per my article and extract earlier)
Perhaps it is worth reflecting that one of the first reasons Corbyn was attacked in the media was for appointing Milne. His closeness to an apologist for genocide and totalitarianism hurt him - not the other way around.
In fact probably exactly because he has the opposite views of David Irving, who fits in a lot better with the right wing press.
If Milne was a bit more pro genocide and totalitarianism the right wing press would love him, it is his left wing foreign policy views that cause a lot of the angst.
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Have you ever read his books on Stalin's purges and East Germany? That's what I was comparing to Irving. Blatant falsification, distortion and facile acceptance of obvious propaganda because it fits his views. That's how he compares.TheJezziah said:
Corbyn was attacked before he appointed Milne, whoever he appointed was very likely to get attacked, even if he had pretty much the opposite views of David Irving.ydoethur said:
The reason Milne is attacked is because he is a propagandist and liar for a regime of mass murder and racial cleansing. He is a stupider, richer and better connected version of David Irving.TheJezziah said:Although the main reason Milne disliked is his political views, if he was more supportive of war and the occupation of Palestine he wouldn't be targeted. Also being close to Corbyn will get you attacked in the media, if he was just working at the Guardian there would be much less reason to target him.
If he was a centrist you would have Nick Cohen writing an article complaining about people targeting him! (as per my article and extract earlier)
Perhaps it is worth reflecting that one of the first reasons Corbyn was attacked in the media was for appointing Milne. His closeness to an apologist for genocide and totalitarianism hurt him - not the other way around.
In fact probably exactly because he has the opposite views of David Irving, who fits in a lot better with the right wing press.
If Milne was a bit more pro genocide and totalitarianism the right wing press would love him, it is his left wing foreign policy views that cause a lot of the angst.
And yes, Corbyn was attacked before Milne was appointed, but he was also attacked for appointing Milne. Your claim therefore that Milne is damned by association doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
As you would know if you had ever studied either system, there was very little practical difference between Nazism and Communism. Both were murderous, both were corrupt, both were racist, both were aggressively expansionist, and most of all both ultimately failed in all their goals. In fact to quote Richard Overy the irony of the Second World War was that the Allies included a regime in Soviet Russia that was just as bad as the Nazi regime they were fighting. So an apologist for one based on lies (Milne) is just as bad as another based on lies (Irvine).Recidivist said:Milne is a Nazi?
However, all that said, I personally still think the Nazis were uniquely unpleasant. The Soviets killed Jews and Poles, but didn't boil their bodies for soap. I'm just not willing to give Milne a free pass on a technicality, unlike far too many people on the left.0
