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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Farage against the machine. Why the Brexit party’s chances are not as good as billed
Nigel Farage’s second coming has been greeted with fanfares in the media, which love someone who courts publicity and is prepared to do whatever it takes to get it. His gaping maw can be viewed wherever you look, and he has so far been given an unimpeded run for his message that Brexit has been betrayed. His credentials as a strategic genius who delivered Brexit are taken as read. His brilliance as a politician is assumed. The imminent collapse of the current political establishment is expected.
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I agree with Alastair, love the Farage against the machine headline.0
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Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
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Well behind in the polls like the (non)-change party.0
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You dis Farage. Don't disparage Farage.0
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I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
You need some new friends....TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
There was a young man named Farage
Who fell to an electoral barrage
He campaigned so hard
But let down his guard
And ended up locked in his garage0 -
It is very punny!TheScreamingEagles said:I agree with Alastair, love the Farage against the machine headline.
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I'd forgotten about his HIV bullshit. So much bile to keep tabs on.0
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Like rage against the machine, a lot more establishment than they like to let on.TheScreamingEagles said:I agree with Alastair, love the Farage against the machine headline.
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They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
Fall back on the old "meaningful vote" classicwilliamglenn said:0 -
If I may politely disagree with the header. It gives a long list why BP will not succeed in the long term and maybe that is correct. But in the short term it is in demonstrably rude health. You can't get poll figures like that from zero in a short time without having some ability to attract voters.0
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I believe the pizzas are called Hawaiians.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
Farage is a good campaigner, he took the UKIP party from nowhere to winning the 2014 Euro elections and although he failed himself at least 2 MPs in the 2010-2015 Parliament, including 1 by election and 1 at the 2015-17 Parliament. Under PR rather than FPTP UKIP would have got about 80 MPs at the 2015 GE.
Cummings may also say it was him who got Leave to 52% but without Farage and UKIP pressuring Cameron there would have been no EU referendum and no anti EU base to build on in the first place.
It is also difficult for Remainers like Alistair to comprehend the depth and scale of anger from Leavers at the fact we are still in the EU almost 3 years since we voted Leave. Every night canvassing in the local elections I get at least 2 or 3 Leavers saying they 'have voted Tory all their life etc but will not be voting again until we leave or will be voting but only for the Brexit Party nationally'.
If the Brexit Party comes first in the European elections as it likely that could finally panic MPs into passing the WA, especially if the Brexit Party also lead in Northern and Midlands Labour Leave seats. CUK for the moment is nowhere0 -
Yup, but they do offer some great insights on politics.FrancisUrquhart said:
You need some new friends....TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
Farage winds people up and can make something out of nothing, you have to give him that. Shame he’s dangerously misguided.0
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I don't think any of the above really impacts on the success of the Brexit party. The key factor is whether we leave the EU or not.
Let's say the Brexit party wins the EU elections and the Tory party panics and appoints a hard Brexiteer. I would then expect the Tory party ratings to recover and the Brexit party to fall back. If we finally leave (by what ever means) I would expect the Brexit party to fade away like UKIP did.
Now, if, on the other hand, the Tory MPs appoint another remainer and we end up not leaving, either by another massive extension or plain revocation, then I would expect to see the Brexit party to do really well and we would see mass defections (certainly at local level from the Cons)
In many ways I see the Brexit Party as a pressure group that will have an inverse relationship to the likelihood of Brexit happening.
I can't really see much of a future for CUK. The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.0 -
It's odd, the older you get, you start to enjoy the things you hated when you were young.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
Like taking naps, voting Tory, and getting spanked.0 -
Someone’s rattled!0
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Whatever happened to seanT.....TheScreamingEagles said:
It's odd, the older you get, you start to enjoy the things you hated when you were young.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
Taking naps, voting Tory, getting spanked.0 -
Excellent header, although personally I am deeply worried that we have finally arrived at UK (or England's) national populism moment and he will run away with things.0
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That’s some messed up shit, apart from the naps.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's odd, the older you get, you start to enjoy the things you hated when you were young.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
Like taking naps, voting Tory, and getting spanked.0 -
But their eaters are not Pacific.TheScreamingEagles said:
I believe the pizzas are called Hawaiians.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
You only need to be better than your opponents, and currently they‘re making him look like Sun Tzu by comparison.0
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Yebbut no but yeah. As with Screaming Lord Sutch and the MRLP, for Farage standing in parliamentary elections is not about winning and the Brexit Party is not a party in the traditional sense of the term; like UKIP before it it is merely the Coconuts to Farage's Kid Creole. Lack of policies is not an issue.0
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Getting caught, certainly. I mean it's not as if a former MP and former Cabinet Minister was photographed at table with a dominatrix and some white powder. That would obviously be unthinkable...FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
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Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do!viewcode said:
With a barrage. In a carriage. In a garage. During a marriage.geoffw said:You dis Farage. Don't disparage Farage.
I’m half crazy, all for the love of you.
It won’t be a stylish marriage
Cos I can’t afford a carriage
But you'll look sweet,
Behind the seat
Of a bicycle built for two0 -
Being caught eating a fancy burger was a far bigger scandal....viewcode said:
Getting caught, certainly. I mean it's not as if a former MP and former Cabinet Minister was photographed at table with a dominatrix and some white powder. That would obviously be unthinkable...FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.0 -
It has the advantages of detoxifying the Libs.GarethoftheVale2 said:The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
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Agreed, the success of the Brexit Party ironically depends on us staying in the EU for as long as possible and May also staying in office as long as possible, or being succeeded by a Remainer (albeit the latter is unlikely given the Tory membership polls).GarethoftheVale2 said:I don't think any of the above really impacts on the success of the Brexit party. The key factor is whether we leave the EU or not.
Let's say the Brexit party wins the EU elections and the Tory party panics and appoints a hard Brexiteer. I would then expect the Tory party ratings to recover and the Brexit party to fall back. If we finally leave (by what ever means) I would expect the Brexit party to fade away like UKIP did.
Now, if, on the other hand, the Tory MPs appoint another remainer and we end up not leaving, either by another massive extension or plain revocation, then I would expect to see the Brexit party to do really well and we would see mass defections (certainly at local level from the Cons)
In many ways I see the Brexit Party as a pressure group that will have an inverse relationship to the likelihood of Brexit happening.
I can't really see much of a future for CUK. The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
Labour is also not immune from the Brexit Party, the latest YouGov poll has 10% of 2017 Labour voters voting for the Brexit Party or UKIP in the European elections, almost as many as the 12% who will vote for CUK
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/y0zo9icxct/TheTimes_190411_VI_Trackers_bpc_w.pdf0 -
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
The ‘But he’s lost 7 times in parliamentary elections’ argument really needs to be put back in its box. On 5 of those occasions he was effectively a paper candidate, once he lost to the speaker when UKIP got 3% nationwide, and the other time the Tories had to ship in canvassers from across the country and fight a court case to beat him.
Smear smear smear and find guilty by association when the other parties are guilty of the same is so boring.
As it stands, the re emergence of Farage is acting like a proxy for No deal, and makes the MV4 far more likely to pass. Then his detractors will say he failed again, as he retires having achieved his mission of the UK leaving the EU.0 -
Are the LDs still that toxic from the coalition? Personally, I think their problems are that they have given yup trying to appeal to the 52% of the country who voted for Brexit, and that their last 2 leaders have been poor.viewcode said:
It has the advantages of detoxifying the Libs.GarethoftheVale2 said:The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
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But likely to end up a surprise #1 again, when people get fed up of being ignored and told what to think by a self-appointed elite?FrancisUrquhart said:
Like rage against the machine, a lot more establishment than they like to let on.TheScreamingEagles said:I agree with Alastair, love the Farage against the machine headline.
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I don't think any of the stuff in the header matters. All Farage needs to do for the Euros is get on the telly. The message writes itself, and it's too late to build an organisation on the ground.0
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Bit of both maybe. People still bring up tuition fees and the like, and they seem keen to repudiate their time in power and alienate anyone who did still vote for them back then like me. But also they do seem to have nothing of interest except Brexit. Didn't Lamb lament that fact recently?GarethoftheVale2 said:
Are the LDs still that toxic from the coalition? Personally, I think their problems are that they have given yup trying to appeal to the 52% of the country who voted for Brexit, and that their last 2 leaders have been poor.viewcode said:
It has the advantages of detoxifying the Libs.GarethoftheVale2 said:The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
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Thank NigeTheScreamingEagles said:I agree with Alastair, love the Farage against the machine headline.
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I once idly considered a place at the University of Illinois at Urbana because of the HAL connection. But when I totted up how much it would cost, there was no way it was cost-effective.Charles said:
Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do!viewcode said:
With a barrage. In a carriage. In a garage. During a marriage.geoffw said:You dis Farage. Don't disparage Farage.
I’m half crazy, all for the love of you.
It won’t be a stylish marriage
Cos I can’t afford a carriage
But you'll look sweet,
Behind the seat
Of a bicycle built for two0 -
Farage has the same ability to enthuse a substantial minority that Alex Salmond and Ken Livingstone had, even if lots of people dislike such politicians. I'd definitely place a ceiling of 25-30% on his level of support, but that could take a politician a long way, right now.viewcode said:If I may politely disagree with the header. It gives a long list why BP will not succeed in the long term and maybe that is correct. But in the short term it is in demonstrably rude health. You can't get poll figures like that from zero in a short time without having some ability to attract voters.
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His comments about how women who breastfeed should "perhaps sit in the corner" were the worstTheuniondivvie said:I'd forgotten about his HIV bullshit. So much bile to keep tabs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/05/nigel-farage-ukip-claridges-breastfeeding-mothers0 -
IndeedSean_F said:
Farage has the same ability to enthuse a substantial minority that Alex Salmond and Ken Livingstone had, even if lots of people dislike such politicians. I'd definitely place a ceiling of 25-30% on his level of support, but that could take a politician a long way, right now.viewcode said:If I may politely disagree with the header. It gives a long list why BP will not succeed in the long term and maybe that is correct. But in the short term it is in demonstrably rude health. You can't get poll figures like that from zero in a short time without having some ability to attract voters.
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OutrageousDanny565 said:
His comments about how women who breastfeed should "perhaps sit in the corner" were the worstTheuniondivvie said:I'd forgotten about his HIV bullshit. So much bile to keep tabs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/05/nigel-farage-ukip-claridges-breastfeeding-mothers
“Let me get this clear, as I said on the radio and as I repeat now, I personally have no problem with mothers breastfeeding wherever they want”0 -
Kind of agree with isam about the failed parliamentary candidate jibe. It's true and a little funny but mostly irrelevant considering his impact elsewhere and the national position when he stood.
Though I dont think it makes MV4 any more likely to pass. The opposite in fact. Tory hard leavers are acting more bullish, even the ones who voted for the deal last time, emboldened that no deal might be viable again, they hope. The 30 plus needed to see the MV pass are no more likely to come as the mps will still believe they have numbers to delay things as needed0 -
Whip for deal+referendum. It'll hurt but it's better than bleeding to death.kle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
At least the pineapples were on them.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
....it's past the watershed ain't it?0 -
Tell me more.TheScreamingEagles said:
I believe the pizzas are called Hawaiians.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
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I reckon his chickening out of the Eastleigh by election in 2013 was his biggest mistake, I think if he stood he would have won.kle4 said:Kind of agree with isam about the failed parliamentary candidate jibe. It's true and a little funny but mostly irrelevant considering his impact elsewhere and the national position when he stood.
Though I dont think it makes MV4 any more likely to pass. The opposite in fact. Tory hard leavers are acting more bullish, even the ones who voted for the deal last time, emboldened that no deal might be viable again, they hope. The 30 plus needed to see the MV pass are no more likely to come as the mps will still believe they have numbers to delay things as needed
Plus he has history in that constituency, he wouldn't have been seen as a carpetbagger.0 -
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
All this makes me think about is Stephen Milligan and the orange in his mouth.RobD said:
At least the pineapples were on them.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
....it's past the watershed ain't it?
It was four years later when I went to university that I finally had the courage to ask someone why Stephen Milligan died with an orange in his mouth.
Yes, there was a time when I was really innocent.0 -
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As things stand, the Brexit Party has big potential future problems. A one man band can't be viable in the long run, and Farage is a control freak who can't tolerate rivals. I don't think it has much in the way of current problems. Few potential voters will be put off by the mattes mentioned in the last third of the header.0
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30+ of them? Really?HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
We've heard the 'focus minds' argument before and yet even with a very real chance of no Brexit or even no deal only 6 labour mps wavered. It isn't happening. And that without fools like Drax regretting their choice last time. If the Brexit party top the poll might not others who reluctantly backed the deal not do so again? I believe you yourself have suggested the EU might not extend again after all.0 -
It is odd, though, that someone so ferociously intelligent didn't understand why it needs to be a lemon, not an orange.TheScreamingEagles said:
All this makes me think about is Stephen Milligan and the orange in his mouth.RobD said:
At least the pineapples were on them.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
....it's past the watershed ain't it?
It was four years later when I went to university that I finally had the courage to ask someone why Stephen Milligan died with an orange in his mouth.
Yes, there was a time when I was really innocent.0 -
I saw a LD PPB broadcast the other day and even that was going on about Brexit! They have almost made themselves the anti-Brexit party.kle4 said:
Bit of both maybe. People still bring up tuition fees and the like, and they seem keen to repudiate their time in power and alienate anyone who did still vote for them back then like me. But also they do seem to have nothing of interest except Brexit. Didn't Lamb lament that fact recently?GarethoftheVale2 said:
Are the LDs still that toxic from the coalition? Personally, I think their problems are that they have given yup trying to appeal to the 52% of the country who voted for Brexit, and that their last 2 leaders have been poor.viewcode said:
It has the advantages of detoxifying the Libs.GarethoftheVale2 said:The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
If they are going to make progress again, they need to change leader and try and put out some olive branches to Brexit voters. And come up with some other policies.
It's a shame Lamb isn't leader.
The advantages the LDs do have over CHUK are:
- 12 seats, of which maybe 8 are reasonably safe
- Large numbers of councillors and activists
- Large numbers of members
- A place in the election debates0 -
It looked that way 4 months ago. They've been paralysed ever since or seeking unicorns. Clearly they are willing to do anything for Brexit, but they wont do that, as meatloaf sang years agoedmundintokyo said:
Whip for deal+referendum. It'll hurt but it's better than bleeding to death.kle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
I was 27 when he died, and up to that point, I'd never heard of auto-erotic oxytoxiphilia.TheScreamingEagles said:
All this makes me think about is Stephen Milligan and the orange in his mouthRobD said:
At least the pineapples were on them.FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought the days of tories being caught engaged in kinky s&m was a thing of the past.RobD said:
They were eating pizzas while covered in pineapples? To each their own...TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent the afternoon with four people, three of whom ate pizzas with pineapples on them.ydoethur said:
Do you want pineapple with that?TheScreamingEagles said:First
I'm in my safe space at the moment.
....it's past the watershed ain't it?
It was four years later when I went to university that I finally had the courage to ask someone why Stephen Milligan died with an orange in his mouth.
Yes, there was a time when I was really innocent.
I also remember spewing coffee over the Spectator, I was laughing so much at Auberon Waugh's obituary for Milligan.
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Still interesting that several indies have no interest in joining anybody it seems. Policy differences for some no doubt, but also perhaps just not being up for a very difficult, likely fruitless attempt to break the 2 party system?0
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The EU is likely to have a different balance to it at the end of May, irrespective of how we vote.
The centre right EPP is forecast to be the biggest party by Europe Elects with a total of 177 MEPs. The three eurosceptic reform, freedom of nations and direct democracy groups are forecast to have 166 between them.
However, those figures allow for Orban's Hungarian dozen to sit within the EPP, whereas they appear to be ideologically aligned to one of the latter groups. That is substantial drift from the 2014 europhile right to a 2019 eurosceptic one.
Those figures are also based on non participation by the UK.
As the UK right does not sit in the EPP it's probable that an election would send 30-40 Tory/Brexit Party MEPs into the reform, freedom and democracy grouping. This would be at the combined expense of countries gaining from the Brexit seat redistribution (Spain and France gain most) and the German led EPP on the right.
If the eurosceptics outnumber the europhile right, where does that leave the EPP on 27th May?
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Given that they've already had to boot out one of their candidates after a cursory check of his Twitter history, just four hours after being announced, I suspect the cleansing powers of the TIGs will evaporate pretty soonish.viewcode said:
It has the advantages of detoxifying the Libs.GarethoftheVale2 said:The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
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But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
Their ankle is chained to a pipe, next to them is a sawkle4 said:
It looked that way 4 months ago. They've been paralysed ever since or seeking unicorns. Clearly they are willing to do anything for Brexit, but they wont do that, as meatloaf sang years ago0 -
It's so obviously the only way out for the government. How long will it take them to realise?edmundintokyo said:
Whip for deal+referendum. It'll hurt but it's better than bleeding to death.kle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
5 minutes
5 minutes after the government falls.Benpointer said:
It's so obviously the only way out for the government. How long will it take them to realise?edmundintokyo said:
Whip for deal+referendum. It'll hurt but it's better than bleeding to death.kle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
0 -
Farage and the Brexit Party channel the gig economy into politics. They're not there for the long haul. They just have one job to get done and it looks to me like they have a chance.
In these terms Farage is already the most successful UK politician of our time.0 -
Austin, Hopkins & Field on the (ex) Labour side are Brexiters so TIG is not really an option for them. Woodcock would be a natural Tigger politically but he left Labour under something of a (non political) cloud and so they may not want him. Williamson I guess hopes to be readmitted to Labour in due course.kle4 said:Still interesting that several indies have no interest in joining anybody it seems. Policy differences for some no doubt, but also perhaps just not being up for a very difficult, likely fruitless attempt to break the 2 party system?
0 -
By the same token would it not focus the minds of some Tory MPs into opposing the Deal once again, rather than be blamed for allowing the treasonous compromise to come to pass?HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
This is why I think it'll be the Greens who surprise on the upside in the European elections, rather than the Lib Dems.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I saw a LD PPB broadcast the other day and even that was going on about Brexit! They have almost made themselves the anti-Brexit party.kle4 said:
Bit of both maybe. People still bring up tuition fees and the like, and they seem keen to repudiate their time in power and alienate anyone who did still vote for them back then like me. But also they do seem to have nothing of interest except Brexit. Didn't Lamb lament that fact recently?GarethoftheVale2 said:
Are the LDs still that toxic from the coalition? Personally, I think their problems are that they have given yup trying to appeal to the 52% of the country who voted for Brexit, and that their last 2 leaders have been poor.viewcode said:
It has the advantages of detoxifying the Libs.GarethoftheVale2 said:The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
If they are going to make progress again, they need to change leader and try and put out some olive branches to Brexit voters. And come up with some other policies.
It's a shame Lamb isn't leader.
The advantages the LDs do have over CHUK are:
- 12 seats, of which maybe 8 are reasonably safe
- Large numbers of councillors and activists
- Large numbers of members
- A place in the election debates
As much as some people (including the author of this thread header) think some people are fixated on Brexit, and only identify as "Remainers" or "Leavers" to the exclusion of everything else, I'm really not convinced that's right. Whereas the Lib Dems are seen as only being interested in Brexit (as increasingly are Labour, since for months now they've only been getting media attention when they've been doing something to delay Brexit or to vote against a specific Brexit option), I feel like the perception is that the Greens have a broader agenda, which will appeal even to a lot of Remain voters who want to register that they're bored of the subject and want politicians to focus on other things.0 -
They're counted by local government area.anothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
0 -
Not much difference, the europhile right already need the europhile left to pass stuff. If the nationalists had a majority that would be a big deal, but we're nowhere near that on those numbers.thecommissioner said:The EU is likely to have a different balance to it at the end of May, irrespective of how we vote.
The centre right EPP is forecast to be the biggest party by Europe Elects with a total of 177 MEPs. The three eurosceptic reform, freedom of nations and direct democracy groups are forecast to have 166 between them.
However, those figures allow for Orban's Hungarian dozen to sit within the EPP, whereas they appear to be ideologically aligned to one of the latter groups. That is substantial drift from the 2014 europhile right to a 2019 eurosceptic one.
Those figures are also based on non participation by the UK.
As the UK right does not sit in the EPP it's probable that an election would send 30-40 Tory/Brexit Party MEPs into the reform, freedom and democracy grouping. This would be at the combined expense of countries gaining from the Brexit seat redistribution (Spain and France gain most) and the German led EPP on the right.
If the eurosceptics outnumber the europhile right, where does that leave the EPP on 27th May?0 -
That was pre Brexit Party. If the Brexit Party top the poll in their seats they will start to worry about losing them if we continue to stay in the EU.kle4 said:
30+ of them? Really?HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
We've heard the 'focus minds' argument before and yet even with a very real chance of no Brexit or even no deal only 6 labour mps wavered. It isn't happening. And that without fools like Drax regretting their choice last time. If the Brexit party top the poll might not others who reluctantly backed the deal not do so again? I believe you yourself have suggested the EU might not extend again after all.
The EU will extend for ever, the only risk is Macron eventually vetos. If we are still in the EU by the time of the next general election and the Tories have not replaced May by a hard Brexiteer there is a clear chance of an SNP 2015 style wave for the Brexit Party and Farage ends up PM
0 -
edmundintokyo said:
The EPP are pretty well indistinguishable from most of the Social Democrats and ALDE, although each group attracts some strange hangers-on.thecommissioner said:The EU is likely to have a different balance to it at the end of May, irrespective of how we vote.
The centre right EPP is forecast to be the biggest party by Europe Elects with a total of 177 MEPs. The three eurosceptic reform, freedom of nations and direct democracy groups are forecast to have 166 between them.
However, those figures allow for Orban's Hungarian dozen to sit within the EPP, whereas they appear to be ideologically aligned to one of the latter groups. That is substantial drift from the 2014 europhile right to a 2019 eurosceptic one.
Those figures are also based on non participation by the UK.
As the UK right does not sit in the EPP it's probable that an election would send 30-40 Tory/Brexit Party MEPs into the reform, freedom and democracy grouping. This would be at the combined expense of countries gaining from the Brexit seat redistribution (Spain and France gain most) and the German led EPP on the right.
If the eurosceptics outnumber the europhile right, where does that leave the EPP on 27th May
Not much difference, the europhile right already need the europhile left to pass stuff. If the nationalists had a majority that would be a big deal, but we're nowhere near that on those numbers.0 -
BBC Newsnight:
Anti-Brexit forces could have won about 16 seats at the Euro elections if they'd formed an alliance. Instead they're likely to win just 7 seats, all of which would likely be LD.0 -
No, the results are counted by council area which largely overlaps with constutuencies then reported in the central Regional counting centre to get the total Regional tally and allocation of seatsanothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
A National Convention? Are we going to get a Chicago 1968-style fight for the soul of the Tory party?TGOHF said:0 -
Each individual council releases its own results, though.anothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
I thought Tories had no souls?williamglenn said:
A National Convention? Are we going to get a Chicago 1968-style fight for the soul of the Tory party?TGOHF said:0 -
That's true. The exception was the 1999 Euros (the first to be conducted using this system) when they were declared by Westminster constituency for some reason.Danny565 said:
Each individual council releases its own results, though.anothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
Ibrokenwheel said:
I thought Tories had no souls?williamglenn said:
A National Convention? Are we going to get a Chicago 1968-style fight for the soul of the Tory party?TGOHF said:
Not individually, as they are all given up to the collective dark soul of the baby eating machinery of the party I believe.brokenwheel said:
I thought Tories had no souls?williamglenn said:
A National Convention? Are we going to get a Chicago 1968-style fight for the soul of the Tory party?TGOHF said:
0 -
I stand corrected, though individual constituency results will still not be known.Sean_F said:
They're counted by local government area.anothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
Not if the alternative is staying in the EU, as it is clear it is in the current Parliament.OblitusSumMe said:
By the same token would it not focus the minds of some Tory MPs into opposing the Deal once again, rather than be blamed for allowing the treasonous compromise to come to pass?HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
The Brexit Party is only polling so well because we have not left the EU yet, had the Brexit Deal passed they would only be getting the fanatics support not the more moderate Leavers who will back them at the EU Parliament elections.
Also the closest to a Commons majority in the indicative votes was Deal plus CU, which fell just 3 votes short, if a few more Labour MPs switch to that rather than EUref2 because of the Brexit Party success it will pass0 -
Agreed. Certainly the LDs have made very clear that they are appealing only to the votes of the 48% who voted for Remain. But on top of that, the majority of that 48% are people on the left who remember the fact that they facilitated 5 years of extreme austerity under Cameron and Osborne as well as the high tuition fees that a lot are now repaying. That toxicity may be wearing off a bit but it will take a decade to get it out of the system.kle4 said:
Bit of both maybe. People still bring up tuition fees and the like, and they seem keen to repudiate their time in power and alienate anyone who did still vote for them back then like me. But also they do seem to have nothing of interest except Brexit. Didn't Lamb lament that fact recently?GarethoftheVale2 said:
Are the LDs still that toxic from the coalition? Personally, I think their problems are that they have given yup trying to appeal to the 52% of the country who voted for Brexit, and that their last 2 leaders have been poor.viewcode said:
It has the advantages of detoxifying the Libs.GarethoftheVale2 said:The suggestion earlier that the LDs should merge into them was ridiculous.
At best I think that around 20% of the electorate* both like the EU and were reasonably content with the direction of the 2010-15 Government. The LDs are in a good position to compete for their vote. For the other 80%, they are in a very poor position to compete. Just to make matters worse, Change UK are also fishing in the same pool.
Compare and contrast with the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, when the LDs very cleverly did not defined themselves and so could simultaneously appeal to left and right, whilst being the only 3rd party show in town.
*20% of the electorate, but 60%+ of PBers and 80%+ of PB thread authors.0 -
Yes, Farage is two-faced in that he will tell one audience what it wants to hear and when other people complain about the misogyny, or the racism, he will then walk it back, claim to have had his words misconstrued and act the martyr when other people have the temerity to disagree with him.isam said:
OutrageousDanny565 said:
His comments about how women who breastfeed should "perhaps sit in the corner" were the worstTheuniondivvie said:I'd forgotten about his HIV bullshit. So much bile to keep tabs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/05/nigel-farage-ukip-claridges-breastfeeding-mothers
“Let me get this clear, as I said on the radio and as I repeat now, I personally have no problem with mothers breastfeeding wherever they want”
Quite how he's managed to get away with the act repeatedly over the years is beyond me.0 -
Ha. No and no. Firstly, "topping the poll" next month will mean approx 25-30% of the votes. In a Westminster election this might gain them half a dozen seats, but that won't worry any of the main parties too much. Especially not Labour.HYUFD said:
That was pre Brexit Party. If the Brexit Party top the poll in their seats they will start to worry about losing them if we continue to stay in the EU.kle4 said:
30+ of them? Really?HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
We've heard the 'focus minds' argument before and yet even with a very real chance of no Brexit or even no deal only 6 labour mps wavered. It isn't happening. And that without fools like Drax regretting their choice last time. If the Brexit party top the poll might not others who reluctantly backed the deal not do so again? I believe you yourself have suggested the EU might not extend again after all.
The EU will extend for ever, the only risk is Macron eventually vetos. If we are still in the EU by the time of the next general election and the Tories have not replaced May by a hard Brexiteer there is a clear chance of an SNP 2015 style wave for the Brexit Party and Farage ends up PM
Secondly, as we saw at the last general election, it's very hard to make politics just about Brexit (thank God). Of course this is the number 1 issue for the Gammon of the UK, but there really aren't enough of them out there to propel Farage to number 10.0 -
What the hell are we fighting for?williamglenn said:
A National Convention? Are we going to get a Chicago 1968-style fight for the soul of the Tory party?TGOHF said:
Ah, just surrender and it won't hurt at all
You just got time to say your prayers
Yeah, while you're waiting for the hammer to, hammer to fall0 -
One should be able to work them out, thoughanothernick said:
I stand corrected, though individual constituency results will still not be known.Sean_F said:
They're counted by local government area.anothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
They can easily be calculated as ward results will be known via polling station and from that you can work out the wards in each constituency and thus the constituency resultanothernick said:
I stand corrected, though individual constituency results will still not be known.Sean_F said:
They're counted by local government area.anothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.0 -
See also Trump D.OblitusSumMe said:
Yes, Farage is two-faced in that he will tell one audience what it wants to hear and when other people complain about the misogyny, or the racism, he will then walk it back, claim to have had his words misconstrued and act the martyr when other people have the temerity to disagree with him.isam said:
OutrageousDanny565 said:
His comments about how women who breastfeed should "perhaps sit in the corner" were the worstTheuniondivvie said:I'd forgotten about his HIV bullshit. So much bile to keep tabs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/05/nigel-farage-ukip-claridges-breastfeeding-mothers
“Let me get this clear, as I said on the radio and as I repeat now, I personally have no problem with mothers breastfeeding wherever they want”
Quite how he's managed to get away with the act repeatedly over the years is beyond me.0 -
Only by interpolation.Sean_F said:
One should be able to work them out, thoughanothernick said:
I stand corrected, though individual constituency results will still not be known.Sean_F said:
They're counted by local government area.anothernick said:
But the votes are counted in regions not Westminster constituencies so individual constituency results will not be known.HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
0 -
The trick is not minding, as Gordon Liddy put it.dixiedean said:
See also Trump D.OblitusSumMe said:
Yes, Farage is two-faced in that he will tell one audience what it wants to hear and when other people complain about the misogyny, or the racism, he will then walk it back, claim to have had his words misconstrued and act the martyr when other people have the temerity to disagree with him.isam said:
OutrageousDanny565 said:
His comments about how women who breastfeed should "perhaps sit in the corner" were the worstTheuniondivvie said:I'd forgotten about his HIV bullshit. So much bile to keep tabs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/05/nigel-farage-ukip-claridges-breastfeeding-mothers
“Let me get this clear, as I said on the radio and as I repeat now, I personally have no problem with mothers breastfeeding wherever they want”
Quite how he's managed to get away with the act repeatedly over the years is beyond me.0 -
It will certainly worry Labour MPs in strongly Leave seats if the Brexit Party tops the poll in their constituency, if we are still in the EU by the next general election the Brexit Party will only get stronger.Dadge said:
Ha. No and no. Firstly, "topping the poll" next month will mean approx 25-30% of the votes. In a Westminster election this might gain them half a dozen seats, but that won't worry any of the main parties too much. Especially not Labour.HYUFD said:
That was pre Brexit Party. If the Brexit Party top the poll in their seats they will start to worry about losing them if we continue to stay in the EU.kle4 said:
30+ of them? Really?HYUFD said:
The prospect of the Brexit Party topping the poll in their constituencies could focus a few wavering Labour MPs minds in favour of the WA which is all it would need to scrape homekle4 said:
Theres nothing they can do. Baker et al and the DUP mean the WA wont pass. The EU would surely have bent on the backstop by now if they were going to. The members would love no deal but it costs the government its slender majority. Labour can provide the votes but they think power could be theirs, or remain, so have no incentive. Accepting a CU or referendum also splits them .williamglenn said:
The ministerial frustration is understandable but a fix is not within them. Not without a formal split.
We've heard the 'focus minds' argument before and yet even with a very real chance of no Brexit or even no deal only 6 labour mps wavered. It isn't happening. And that without fools like Drax regretting their choice last time. If the Brexit party top the poll might not others who reluctantly backed the deal not do so again? I believe you yourself have suggested the EU might not extend again after all.
The EU will extend for ever, the only risk is Macron eventually vetos. If we are still in the EU by the time of the next general election and the Tories have not replaced May by a hard Brexiteer there is a clear chance of an SNP 2015 style wave for the Brexit Party and Farage ends up PM
Secondly, as we saw at the last general election, it's very hard to make politics just about Brexit (thank God). Of course this is the number 1 issue for the Gammon of the UK, but there really aren't enough of them out there to propel Farage to number 10.
The last general election is an absurd comparison, both parties promised we would have left the EU by this March, both have thus broken that promise as it is now late April and we are still in the EU.
52% of the voters voted Leave, that is far more than a few Gammons0 -
Yeah, what a Creep.Sean_F said:
The trick is not minding, as Gordon Liddy put it.dixiedean said:
See also Trump D.OblitusSumMe said:
Yes, Farage is two-faced in that he will tell one audience what it wants to hear and when other people complain about the misogyny, or the racism, he will then walk it back, claim to have had his words misconstrued and act the martyr when other people have the temerity to disagree with him.isam said:
OutrageousDanny565 said:
His comments about how women who breastfeed should "perhaps sit in the corner" were the worstTheuniondivvie said:I'd forgotten about his HIV bullshit. So much bile to keep tabs on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/05/nigel-farage-ukip-claridges-breastfeeding-mothers
“Let me get this clear, as I said on the radio and as I repeat now, I personally have no problem with mothers breastfeeding wherever they want”
Quite how he's managed to get away with the act repeatedly over the years is beyond me.
0 -
Last night I watched a bit of stand up comedy from Sara Pascoe, who it turns out comes from my area and went to a local school...
Anyway she did a routine about female power and how Theresa May has actually made it uncool for white women to be in charge... called her ‘anxiety personified’ which I thought was quite accurate0
This discussion has been closed.