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SandyRentool said:
A strong opinion to take on the annual CLP jumble sale.rottenborough said:
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European elections before we Leave?
D'Hondt do this to me.0 -
Mercer's problem (apart from being ex-RA and therefore liable to be as deaf as a post) is that he has been quite venal in his extra-parliamentary activities. Some of that shit will get slung back at him.Casino_Royale said:
If I were him I’d be getting training night and day on political leadership and premiership because the seven hounds of hell will be unleashed on him once the media and opposition parties work out he’s a credible candidate or frontrunner to be next PM/Tory Party leader.
He does strike me as the sort of "bloody good bloke" that Williamson fantasises about being.
The good news is, that if he doesn't work out, the British Army has an inexhaustible supply of these never to be promoted beyond OF-2 types.0 -
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
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[With visible disdain] No! [valiantly] I’m thinking ofCasino_Royale said:
*switch on Blackadder*Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Royale, arrr, ye be hungry for booty!
“Arrrr!..hahaha harrrrrr!!”
“Not joining us in the ‘ha arr!’’s, Percy?”
*end Blackadder*
Brexit and the PM I left behind me.0 -
What is the one thing we could do to stop defence procurement from being a total shambles?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
I remember reading somewhere that we have over 10,000 people working on it and the Israelis have 500.0 -
D'Hondt Leave me this way!nunuone said:European elections before we Leave?
D'Hondt do this to me.0 -
Scrabbling desperately for a positive - this would see the first ever female Chancellor, and perhaps help to bury the hackneyed idea that women can handle the pennies but not the pounds.Black_Rook said:Presented without comment.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1114815158453506051
And a second one, getting beyond desperate now, given that BoJo is about nothing except becoming PM, it is just faintly possible that once he's made it he will not want to do things that are patently stupid.0 -
Glad to read that Ms Cyclefree's hand is improving. Green pus is very alarming.Casino_Royale said:
+1Richard_Tyndall said:
I am sure there is a joke in there about green fingers but really glad to hear you are on the mend.Cyclefree said:
Yes it is thank you. Had a bit of scare when green pus started coming out and was feeling a bit feverish but the medecines are doing their thing. And got a severe talking to from my beloved about not wearing gloves.....but the doctor - and any gardener on here - understood: gardening with gloves is not the real thing....... And I won £50 on the Grand National which was very cheering......Morris_Dancer said:Miss Cyclefree, I still wonder how Israeli politics would be if Sharon hadn't suffered that stroke (believe it was a stroke) and had led Kadima to anticipated victory, and on to reform the electoral process so it was less fragmented.
Hope your finger's on the mend.0 -
Do we know if the Pirate Party are Leavers or Remainers?Sean_F said:
Most Brexit supporters don't want the UK to become libertarian Pirate Island.another_richard said:
You may rest assured that there's no chance of Singapore on Thames although its focus on manufacturing and balanced economy would be nice.Jonathan said:
June general election , September is far too late.DavidL said:What I would like to see is:
1. The MV passing in the early part of this week.
2. It being agreed that we will leave on 22nd May at the EU summit.
3. May resigning by Friday (staying on as caretaker)
4. Parliament getting on with the passing of all required legislation and SIs.
5. A GE in about September so we can have a government again.
It's not impossible but I don't particularly fancy my chances.
Changes to PD to avoid Singapore on Thames and some mechanism (referendum perhaps) to lock that in.0 -
Is this it?JosiasJessop said:The Mr Men book: "Mr Silly" includes a worm that wears a top hat, school tie and a monocle, and which says "Quack! Quack!"
Unfortunately I cannot find an image of it online, but when she reads it to our son, she refers to it as "Rees Mogg". The likeness is uncanny.
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[deleted: duplicate post]0
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kinabalu said:
Scrabbling desperately for a positive - this would see the first ever female Chancellor, and perhaps help to bury the hackneyed idea that women can handle the pennies but not the pounds.Black_Rook said:Presented without comment.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1114815158453506051
And a second one, getting beyond desperate now, given that BoJo is about nothing except becoming PM, it is just faintly possible that once he's made it he will not want to do things that are patently stupid.
Re your second sentence:kinabalu said:
Scrabbling desperately for a positive - this would see the first ever female Chancellor, and perhaps help to bury the hackneyed idea that women can handle the pennies but not the pounds.Black_Rook said:Presented without comment.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1114815158453506051
And a second one, getting beyond desperate now, given that BoJo is about nothing except becoming PM, it is just faintly possible that once he's made it he will not want to do things that are patently stupid.
Leopards. Spots.0 -
You’re never going to be a fan of any potential Tory leader, but where does one find the absolutely perfect candidate?Dura_Ace said:
Mercer's problem (apart from being ex-RA and therefore liable to be as deaf as a post) is that he has been quite venal in his extra-parliamentary activities. Some of that shit will get slung back at him.Casino_Royale said:
If I were him I’d be getting training night and day on political leadership and premiership because the seven hounds of hell will be unleashed on him once the media and opposition parties work out he’s a credible candidate or frontrunner to be next PM/Tory Party leader.
He does strike me as the sort of "bloody good bloke" that Williamson fantasises about being.
The good news is, that if he doesn't work out, the British Army has an inexhaustible supply of these never to be promoted beyond OF-2 types.
They don’t exist.
Cameron had a life before he became Tory leader, and successfully navigated allegations of cocaine use, which leads me to believe Mercer will be ok too.0 -
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
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If we are realigning with the anglosphere can we give D'Hondt its proper name, the Jefferson method?Sunil_Prasannan said:
D'Hondt Leave me this way!nunuone said:European elections before we Leave?
D'Hondt do this to me.0 -
viewcode said:
Is this it?JosiasJessop said:The Mr Men book: "Mr Silly" includes a worm that wears a top hat, school tie and a monocle, and which says "Quack! Quack!"
Unfortunately I cannot find an image of it online, but when she reads it to our son, she refers to it as "Rees Mogg". The likeness is uncanny.
[EDIT: "img src" effed up]
Yes - Jacob Rees-Worm!0 -
It's not really defence procurement that's the problem, although it is often dire, rather it's the objectives driving the procurement decisions. The UK, for reasons of national self-image, wants the trappings of superpower status (ICBMs, carriers, etc.) but doesn't particularly like spending money on defence so every other capability gets hollowed out.RoyalBlue said:
What is the one thing we could do to stop defence procurement from being a total shambles?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
I remember reading somewhere that we have over 10,000 people working on it and the Israelis have 500.
The particular problem with the carriers is that the decision to mothball the PoW was reversed by the artefact of lying. The RN promised that, by automation, lean crewing and other such wank, they could generate 60 sorties a day with a crew of 700. This didn't turn out to be remotely possible so the realisation is finally sinking in that they are not going to be able to crew both carriers. When I was on CVN-70 we had a complement of 6,000 (who were trained and equipped to a standard an RN Jack could only dream of) and by straining every sinew we launched 160 sorties on the first day of OEF. That gives you an idea of the utterly delusional decision making that has surrounded the carrier program.0 -
India just commissioned the heavily rebuilt ex-Soviet "Vikramaditya", and last time I checked is about to start building her own carriers.Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
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If you think I'm going to rename every existing term because of Brexit, no, no, no. Life is too short. See also de-decimalisation.Ishmael_Z said:
If we are realigning with the anglosphere can we give D'Hondt its proper name, the Jefferson method?Sunil_Prasannan said:
D'Hondt Leave me this way!nunuone said:European elections before we Leave?
D'Hondt do this to me.
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The report I read was that we are trying to flog the design rather than the ships themselves, which is why the Indian Navy were thereSunil_Prasannan said:
India just commissioned the heavily rebuilt ex-Soviet "Vikramaditya", and last time I checked is about to start building her own carriers.Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
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I do hope the deal is that she runs the country and he does the TV stuff.kinabalu said:
Scrabbling desperately for a positive - this would see the first ever female Chancellor, and perhaps help to bury the hackneyed idea that women can handle the pennies but not the pounds.Black_Rook said:Presented without comment.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1114815158453506051
And a second one, getting beyond desperate now, given that BoJo is about nothing except becoming PM, it is just faintly possible that once he's made it he will not want to do things that are patently stupid.0 -
But many senior people in the party said they wanted any deal put to a referendum. They just insist the same thing.another_richard said:
Sure but it would be a bit embarrassing to now oppose a CU when last week Labour was whipping support in favour of a CU.kle4 said:
It's Members and MPs want to remain. They'll follow whatever path is necessary to achieve that, and Corbyn can only do so much.another_richard said:
A free vote is an attempt to get a second referendum.kle4 said:
Yes, so a little over 10% of them.another_richard said:
There are over 30 Labour MPs who don't want another referendum.kle4 said:
Posturing. 90% of the party want that referendum, does anyone really think Corbyn can go against that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Rebecca Long Bailey confirms still in talks over customs union and is very lukewarm on a referendumCyclefree said:Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
Even Ian Lavery couldn't bring himself to vote for one:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47814353
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.0 -
Oh dammit, really? Somebody please fire that stupid f*** ASAP.Dura_Ace said:The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.
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Jefferson has priority by nearly a century, plus is much easier to type. There's places where apostrophes are appropriate, like in Brexit mean's Brexit, and places where they aren't.viewcode said:
If you think I'm going to rename every existing term because of Brexit, no, no, no. Life is too short. See also de-decimalisation.Ishmael_Z said:
If we are realigning with the anglosphere can we give D'Hondt its proper name, the Jefferson method?Sunil_Prasannan said:
D'Hondt Leave me this way!nunuone said:European elections before we Leave?
D'Hondt do this to me.0 -
Ah, I see. Got you!DougSeal said:
The report I read was that we are trying to flog the design rather than the ships themselves, which is why the Indian Navy were thereSunil_Prasannan said:
India just commissioned the heavily rebuilt ex-Soviet "Vikramaditya", and last time I checked is about to start building her own carriers.Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
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Wasn't a sell off announced early on then rowed back upon since?Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
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When you make that kind of deal the frontman starts to get ideas of their own, and pushes back when the person who thought they'd be running things behind the scenes tries to do so.rottenborough said:
I do hope the deal is that she runs the country and he does the TV stuff.kinabalu said:
Scrabbling desperately for a positive - this would see the first ever female Chancellor, and perhaps help to bury the hackneyed idea that women can handle the pennies but not the pounds.Black_Rook said:Presented without comment.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1114815158453506051
And a second one, getting beyond desperate now, given that BoJo is about nothing except becoming PM, it is just faintly possible that once he's made it he will not want to do things that are patently stupid.0 -
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From the Hard Zionist perspective Bibi most certainly is an Absolute Boy. Many successes in those terms as you rightly point out.RoyalBlue said:Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
However, to support the tag of 'great statesman' you would have to make the argument that he has brought a sustainable resolution of the Palestinian issue closer rather than rendered it less likely than ever. That's challenging to put it mildly.0 -
Also redundant in the UK system where the Queen does the handshakes.kle4 said:
When you make that kind of deal the frontman starts to get ideas of their own, and pushes back when the person who thought they'd be running things behind the scenes tries to do so.rottenborough said:
I do hope the deal is that she runs the country and he does the TV stuff.kinabalu said:
Scrabbling desperately for a positive - this would see the first ever female Chancellor, and perhaps help to bury the hackneyed idea that women can handle the pennies but not the pounds.Black_Rook said:Presented without comment.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1114815158453506051
And a second one, getting beyond desperate now, given that BoJo is about nothing except becoming PM, it is just faintly possible that once he's made it he will not want to do things that are patently stupid.0 -
I think this Telegraph report, according to which we are trying to sell the design rather than the ships, may be creating confusionTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't a sell off announced early on then rowed back upon since?Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/04/04/royal-navy-carrier-design-could-sold-india/0 -
Rubbish, Boris has presence and charisma speaks foreign languages etc. Currently there are only 4 western leaders most of the world have heard of, Trump, Merkel, Macron and Trudeau (May is not a big enough personality or long servingbdnough to be noticeable beyond those interested in politics beyond our shores). Boris would help us punch above our weight again and be the most recognised UK PM since Blair.Cyclefree said:Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Given half the world is led by populist leaders anyway at the moment, Trump, Bolsonaro, Lopez Obrador, Conte, Netanyahu, Tsipras, Modi, Putin etc, Boris would just reflect the global trend0 -
And they can vote for one but the numbers aren't there.kle4 said:
But many senior people in the party said they wanted any deal put to a referendum. They just insist the same thing.another_richard said:
Sure but it would be a bit embarrassing to now oppose a CU when last week Labour was whipping support in favour of a CU.kle4 said:
It's Members and MPs want to remain. They'll follow whatever path is necessary to achieve that, and Corbyn can only do so much.another_richard said:
A free vote is an attempt to get a second referendum.kle4 said:
Yes, so a little over 10% of them.another_richard said:
There are over 30 Labour MPs who don't want another referendum.kle4 said:
Posturing. 90% of the party want that referendum, does anyone really think Corbyn can go against that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Rebecca Long Bailey confirms still in talks over customs union and is very lukewarm on a referendumCyclefree said:Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
Even Ian Lavery couldn't bring himself to vote for one:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47814353
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.0 -
Wouldn't that depend on how much they sold it for ?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
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But Charlie knighted Southgate the other day.Jonathan said:
Also redundant in the UK system where the Queen does the handshakes.kle4 said:
When you make that kind of deal the frontman starts to get ideas of their own, and pushes back when the person who thought they'd be running things behind the scenes tries to do so.rottenborough said:
I do hope the deal is that she runs the country and he does the TV stuff.kinabalu said:
Scrabbling desperately for a positive - this would see the first ever female Chancellor, and perhaps help to bury the hackneyed idea that women can handle the pennies but not the pounds.Black_Rook said:Presented without comment.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1114815158453506051
And a second one, getting beyond desperate now, given that BoJo is about nothing except becoming PM, it is just faintly possible that once he's made it he will not want to do things that are patently stupid.0 -
Striking up an arc of fraternity with Trump and Bolsonaro is an absolute triumph of statesmanship, as any fule kno.kinabalu said:
From the Hard Zionist perspective Bibi most certainly is an Absolute Boy. Many successes in those terms as you rightly point out.RoyalBlue said:Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
However, to support the tag of 'great statesman' you would have to make the argument that he has brought a sustainable resolution of the Palestinian issue closer rather than rendered it less likely than ever. That's challenging to put it mildly.0 -
Theuniondivvie said:
Wasn't a sell off announced early on then rowed back upon since?Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
Yes, in the 2010 SDSR.Theuniondivvie said:
Wasn't a sell off announced early on then rowed back upon since?Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
The 2015 SDSR said both would now be brought into service.0 -
When you’re finished with whatever you’re smoking can you pass it round?HYUFD said:
Rubbish, Boris has presence and charisma speaks foreign languages etc. Currently there are only 4 western leaders most of the world have heard of, Trump, Merkel, Macron and Trudeau (May is not a big enough personality or long servingbdnough to be noticeable beyond those interested in politics beyond our shores). Boris would help us punch above our weight again and be the most recognised UK PM since BlairCyclefree said:Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
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The rebel forces are those of a conservative general and Israel is proposing to annex Israeli settlements not the whole of the West BankDougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
Don't care. I have enough bandwidth for existing terms and a reasonable acquisition rate for new ones. I do not have enough headspace for a Leaver year zero.Ishmael_Z said:
Jefferson has priority by nearly a century, plus is much easier to type. There's places where apostrophes are appropriate, like in Brexit mean's Brexit, and places where they aren't.viewcode said:
If you think I'm going to rename every existing term because of Brexit, no, no, no. Life is too short. See also de-decimalisation.Ishmael_Z said:
If we are realigning with the anglosphere can we give D'Hondt its proper name, the Jefferson method?Sunil_Prasannan said:
D'Hondt Leave me this way!nunuone said:European elections before we Leave?
D'Hondt do this to me.0 -
Yep. I have nothing but contempt for Netanyahu. When you look at the efforts made by previous Israeli PMs to try and broker peace and compare it with his actions which have been designed to be as divisive and antagonistic as possible. He may get some short term benefit from his actions in electoral terms but in the long term he will be deemed a disaster for both Israel and the region in general.Cyclefree said:Sean_F said:
I would view him as a corrupt machine politician who has done his best to foment ill-feeling between Jews and Arabs.RoyalBlue said:Netanyahu has presided over Israel’s transformation from a prosperous country into a wealthy one. The state has good relations with more of its immediate neighbours than at any point in its history, faces no credible conventional military threat, and the wall has helped to insulate its population from Palestinian rage. The recognition of Jerusalem as their capital and the annexation of the Golan Heights by the USA is a diplomatic triumph, and will be imitated by other nations led by evangelical Christians or those strongly influenced by them (e.g. Brazil).
Netanyahu clearly does not have the cleanest hands. However, I think he will he remembered as a great statesman. He will overtake Ben Gurion’s term of office in 102 days. Incredible, considering their electoral system and its sheer volatility.
Me too. And who has probably weakened Israel’s long-term security by failing to make any sensible moves towards peace.0 -
Never mind the good of the country thenrottenborough said:0 -
Oh, that’s all okay then, invalidates my point completely. Such trivial matters are mere bagatelle.HYUFD said:
The rebel forces are those of a conservative general and Israel is proposing to annex Israeli settlements not the whole of the West BankDougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
There is always trouble somewhere in the Middle East or North Africa. Usually caused by us. They probably wish we could have a few more of these Brexit distractions so we stay out of their hair for a while.DougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
It isn't trivial, It is not radical Islamic militants advancing on Tripoli but a General who was fighting them and nor is Netanyahu proposing to annex Ramallah, Nablus, the whole of Hebron and the whoke of the West Bank but just following the line most of his party already back to annex existing Israeli settlements. So not they were not trivial matters but needed to be said otherwise your initial post could be misinterpretedDougSeal said:
Oh, that’s all okay then, invalidates my point completely. Such trivial matters are mere bagatelle.HYUFD said:
The rebel forces are those of a conservative general and Israel is proposing to annex Israeli settlements not the whole of the West BankDougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
You didn't mention the prospect of the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party bringing us PM Boris Johnson so we can punch above our weight again, otherwise Doug's comment could be misinterpreted as a cry of despair.HYUFD said:
It isn't trivial, It is not radical Islamic militants advancing on Tripoli but a General who was fighting them and nor is Netanyahu proposing to annex Ramallah, Nablus, the whole of Hebron and the whoke of the West Bank but just following the line most of his party already back to annex existing Israeli settlements. So not they were not trivial matters but needed to be said otherwise your initial post could be misinterpretedDougSeal said:
Oh, that’s all okay then, invalidates my point completely. Such trivial matters are mere bagatelle.HYUFD said:
The rebel forces are those of a conservative general and Israel is proposing to annex Israeli settlements not the whole of the West BankDougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.0 -
Yes, fair comment, I was stretching. Thing is, Brexit, Trump, zeitgeist, straws in the wind, the smell even - the actual smell in the air - all seem to point one way.OldKingCole said:Re your second sentence:
Leopards. Spots.
BORIS IS COMING.
So what I'm doing is preparing myself mentally now. Better to fit some insulation, as it were, rather than be completely exposed. It's akin to No Deal planning.0 -
That is a bit of a con though. Spend a couple of years building illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land then when you have enough annex them, presumably with the fields, roads etc around and linking them and then once you are done start all over again. It won't take too many years that way until the whole West Bank is annexed.HYUFD said:
It isn't trivial, It is not radical Islamic militants advancing on Tripoli but a General who was fighting them and nor is Netanyahu proposing to annex Ramallah, Nablus, the whole of Hebron and the whoke of the West Bank but just following the line most of his party already back to annex existing Israeli settlements. So not they were not trivial matters but needed to be said otherwise your initial post could be misinterpretedDougSeal said:
Oh, that’s all okay then, invalidates my point completely. Such trivial matters are mere bagatelle.HYUFD said:
The rebel forces are those of a conservative general and Israel is proposing to annex Israeli settlements not the whole of the West BankDougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
The point was it prevents any agreement being madeanother_richard said:
And they can vote for one but the numbers aren't there.kle4 said:
But many senior people in the party said they wanted any deal put to a referendum. They just insist the same thing.another_richard said:
Sure but it would be a bit embarrassing to now oppose a CU when last week Labour was whipping support in favour of a CU.kle4 said:
It's Members and MPs want to remain. They'll follow whatever path is necessary to achieve that, and Corbyn can only do so much.another_richard said:
A free vote is an attempt to get a second referendum.kle4 said:
Yes, so a little over 10% of them.another_richard said:
There are over 30 Labour MPs who don't want another referendum.kle4 said:
Posturing. 90% of the party want that referendum, does anyone really think Corbyn can go against that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Rebecca Long Bailey confirms still in talks over customs union and is very lukewarm on a referendumCyclefree said:Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
Even Ian Lavery couldn't bring himself to vote for one:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47814353
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.0 -
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.0 -
https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1114826169944354816
These kinds of stories are now so routine that they pass almost without comment. And yet still 40% of the electorate looked at this man back in 2017 and thought 'Mmmmm... perhaps he might make a good Prime Minister - why not?'
If and when Corbyn Labour makes it over the finishing line, Britain deserves everything it's got coming to it.
I really ought to have got some more marketable skills when I was younger and emigrated to Canada, but hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?0 -
Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says Article 50 should now be revoked
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1114852553764814848?s=200 -
Certainly one of the upsides of Brexit is that the troops are needed here rather than foreign adventures.Richard_Tyndall said:
There is always trouble somewhere in the Middle East or North Africa. Usually caused by us. They probably wish we could have a few more of these Brexit distractions so we stay out of their hair for a while.DougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
I’m guessing that there was no tannoy announcement advertising the fact that the passengers were about to share a flight with a convicted rapist and they thought they were doing the right thing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Certainly I have terrific sympathy with otherwise law abiding people who get caught up in this country’s inhuman immigration system and (shamefully) I may have been one of the protesters. I would have been pretty embarrassed after I found this out though. Just shows there are no binary solutions to a very complex world.Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.0 -
Eurosceptic FvD party tales the lead in the Netherlands
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1114853828921364481?s=200 -
I suggest that the "ordinary passengers" probably *WERE* faux-liberal hard left idiots. Did any of them even think for one second about why the bloke was being chucked out of the country, or did they simply knee-jerk react to a non-white person in handcuffs and assume he was a poor, innocent, defenceless asylum seeker who was being horribly mistreated by the iron-fisted Tory regime?Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.
Actually, come to think of it, even if they actually knew he was a vile, brutal rapist would they have changed their minds? Quite possibly not.
The contagion is spreading.0 -
I am sure PM Trudeau would have loved to have you and of course Corbyn Labour both lost in 2017 and still trails in the latest 2 pollsBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1114826169944354816
These kinds of stories are now so routine that they pass almost without comment. And yet still 40% of the electorate looked at this man back in 2017 and thought 'Mmmmm... perhaps he might make a good Prime Minister - why not?'
If and when Corbyn Labour makes it over the finishing line, Britain deserves everything it's got coming to it.
I really ought to have got some more marketable skills when I was younger and emigrated to Canada, but hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?0 -
Any support for that last statement? I think these people have always been with us (Stop the War Coalition etc).Black_Rook said:
I suggest that the "ordinary passengers" probably *WERE* faux-liberal hard left idiots. Did any of them even think for one second about why the bloke was being chucked out of the country, or did they simply knee-jerk react to a non-white person in handcuffs and assume he was a poor, innocent, defenceless asylum seeker who was being horribly mistreated by the iron-fisted Tory regime?Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.
Actually, come to think of it, even if they actually knew he was a vile, brutal rapist would they have changed their minds? Quite possibly not.
The contagion is spreading.0 -
Which it was from a diehard Remainerwilliamglenn said:
You didn't mention the prospect of the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party bringing us PM Boris Johnson so we can punch above our weight again, otherwise Doug's comment could be misinterpreted as a cry of despair.HYUFD said:
It isn't trivial, It is not radical Islamic militants advancing on Tripoli but a General who was fighting them and nor is Netanyahu proposing to annex Ramallah, Nablus, the whole of Hebron and the whoke of the West Bank but just following the line most of his party already back to annex existing Israeli settlements. So not they were not trivial matters but needed to be said otherwise your initial post could be misinterpretedDougSeal said:
Oh, that’s all okay then, invalidates my point completely. Such trivial matters are mere bagatelle.HYUFD said:
The rebel forces are those of a conservative general and Israel is proposing to annex Israeli settlements not the whole of the West BankDougSeal said:
Tripoli could fall to rebel forces within hours, Israel is about to annex the West Bank and we may be in the brink of a global environmental catastrophe. And all we can talk about is the eternal psychodrama of the Tory Party and its bastard offspring, Brexit. What a time to be alive.Scott_P said:0 -
That might work. Especially if the TV stuff comprised solely of a super extended series of IACGMOOH, running for the same length of time as a Parliament, and Boris were to make the final.rottenborough said:I do hope the deal is that she runs the country and he does the TV stuff.
Which of course he would. Guy is a National Treasure. About the single only person I can think of who could perhaps beat him in that final, and even then it would be close, is Adele.0 -
They shouldn't have interfered in something that didn't concern them. Having said that, I don't know why ordinary passenger planes are used to deport dangerous criminals.DougSeal said:
I’m guessing that there was no tannoy announcement advertising the fact that the passengers were about to share a flight with a convicted rapist and they thought they were doing the right thing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Certainly I have terrific sympathy with otherwise law abiding people who get caught up in this country’s inhuman immigration system and (shamefully) I may have been one of the protesters. I would have been pretty embarrassed after I found this out though. Just shows there are no binary solutions to a very complex world.Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.0 -
Who is he actually popular with? He doesn't cross over. He's not trusted within his party or liked outside of it. His ambition has made him a joke. He's been slobbering over the PM job like a priapic St Bernard for years and it's an embarrassment.HYUFD said:
Rubbish, Boris has presence and charisma speaks foreign languages etc. Currently there are only 4 western leaders most of the world have heard of, Trump, Merkel, Macron and Trudeau (May is not a big enough personality or long servingbdnough to be noticeable beyond those interested in politics beyond our shores). Boris would help us punch above our weight again and be the most recognised UK PM since Blair.Cyclefree said:Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Given half the world is led by populist leaders anyway at the moment, Trump, Bolsonaro, Lopez Obrador, Conte, Netanyahu, Tsipras, Modi, Putin etc, Boris would just reflect the global trend0 -
Boris leads polls of party members and Tory voters and is the only Tory with a higher favourable rating than Corbyn (although both have lots of unfavourable too)Luckyguy1983 said:
Who is he actually popular with? He doesn't cross over. He's not trusted within his party or liked outside of it. His ambition has made him a joke. He's been slobbering over the PM job like a priapic St Bernard for years and it's an embarrassment.HYUFD said:
Rubbish, Boris has presence and charisma speaks foreign languages etc. Currently there are only 4 western leaders most of the world have heard of, Trump, Merkel, Macron and Trudeau (May is not a big enough personality or long servingbdnough to be noticeable beyond those interested in politics beyond our shores). Boris would help us punch above our weight again and be the most recognised UK PM since Blair.Cyclefree said:Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Given half the world is led by populist leaders anyway at the moment, Trump, Bolsonaro, Lopez Obrador, Conte, Netanyahu, Tsipras, Modi, Putin etc, Boris would just reflect the global trend0 -
I thought he had already said it, but if not good that he's on board now.HYUFD said:Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says Article 50 should now be revoked
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1114852553764814848?s=200 -
It all depends on the numbers and we'll see what they are tomorrow.kle4 said:
The point was it prevents any agreement being madeanother_richard said:
And they can vote for one but the numbers aren't there.kle4 said:
But many senior people in the party said they wanted any deal put to a referendum. They just insist the same thing.another_richard said:
Sure but it would be a bit embarrassing to now oppose a CU when last week Labour was whipping support in favour of a CU.kle4 said:
It's Members and MPs want to remain. They'll follow whatever path is necessary to achieve that, and Corbyn can only do so much.another_richard said:
A free vote is an attempt to get a second referendum.kle4 said:
Yes, so a little over 10% of them.another_richard said:
There are over 30 Labour MPs who don't want another referendum.kle4 said:
Posturing. 90% of the party want that referendum, does anyone really think Corbyn can go against that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Rebecca Long Bailey confirms still in talks over customs union and is very lukewarm on a referendumCyclefree said:Let me get this right: Labour - whose conference policy is to go for a second referendum - is refusing to push for this during these talks. Yes?
So why should anyone believe any of the other conference resolutions they make?
Even Ian Lavery couldn't bring himself to vote for one:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47814353
Getting a referendum is not as important as being seen to try to get one, rather than giving in and Brexiting in a manner which makes it Labour's fault as well as the Tories.
And Labour's policy is to aim at a GE rather than a second referendum.0 -
Move over Geert, Marine and which ever eejit leads AfD, there's a new hearthrob in town for PB righties.HYUFD said:Eurosceptic FvD party tales the lead in the Netherlands
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1114853828921364481?s=20
http://tinyurl.com/j4mx73w0 -
Puts pressure on Corbyn and has no cost for Khan in heavily Remain LondonRecidivist said:
I thought he had already said it, but if not good that he's on board now.HYUFD said:Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says Article 50 should now be revoked
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1114852553764814848?s=200 -
O/T
One of the most interesting books of recent years IMO.
https://debalie.nl/agenda/this-is-london-despair-poverty-and-unfulfilled-dreams/
"According to Ben Judah, Brexit was mainly the result of bad migration policies. In his book ‘This is London’, he shows the reasons why. His epic account of contemporary London is motivated by a desire to show the city in its true (new) colors: as a megacity of global migrants, some of them rich, most of them poor, few of them happy with their fate.
While he voted remain, he understands why so many people have voted for Brexit. The ideal of free movement of people has led to many problems. According to Judah, the EU is not working in its current form.
In Judah’s latest book ‘This is London’, we hear stories we have never heard before and meet the people we would not have seen otherwise. This is an account of the city’s variety and its divisions. Judah shows us the capital of the UK through the eyes of its beggars, bankers, coppers, gangsters, careres, sex workers and witch-doctors."0 -
FvD seems more Hannanite Eurosceptic conservative than far right (plus don't forget Matteo Salvini)Theuniondivvie said:
Move over Geert, Marine and which ever eejit leads AdF, there's a new hearthrob in town for PB righties.HYUFD said:Eurosceptic FvD party tales the lead in the Netherlands
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1114853828921364481?s=200 -
TIL. Tipping in America developed from the hiring of newly emancipated slaves, mostly women, but not paying them.
Before then, there was much resistance to the "European" practice of not paying staff a proper wage.
Edit...excluding slaves of course.0 -
Correct on both counts I’d say.AndyJS said:
They shouldn't have interfered in something that didn't concern them. Having said that, I don't know why ordinary passenger planes are used to deport dangerous criminals.DougSeal said:
I’m guessing that there was no tannoy announcement advertising the fact that the passengers were about to share a flight with a convicted rapist and they thought they were doing the right thing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Certainly I have terrific sympathy with otherwise law abiding people who get caught up in this country’s inhuman immigration system and (shamefully) I may have been one of the protesters. I would have been pretty embarrassed after I found this out though. Just shows there are no binary solutions to a very complex world.Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.0 -
Yep. Thanks for saving me from having to scan it.viewcode said:
Is this it?JosiasJessop said:The Mr Men book: "Mr Silly" includes a worm that wears a top hat, school tie and a monocle, and which says "Quack! Quack!"
Unfortunately I cannot find an image of it online, but when she reads it to our son, she refers to it as "Rees Mogg". The likeness is uncanny.
0 -
Exactly. The talk of the Tories splitting is overblown and Labour splitting seems even less likely. But... if they did I think Khan would be a shoe in for the pro-EU bit.HYUFD said:
Puts pressure on Corbyn and has no cost for Khan in heavily Remain LondonRecidivist said:
I thought he had already said it, but if not good that he's on board now.HYUFD said:Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says Article 50 should now be revoked
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1114852553764814848?s=200 -
You think? Seems to fit the far right template pretty well as far as I can see.HYUFD said:
FvD seems more Hannanite Eurosveptic than far right (plus don't forget Matteo Salvini)Theuniondivvie said:
Move over Geert, Marine and which ever eejit leads AfD, there's a new hearthrob in town for PB righties.HYUFD said:Eurosceptic FvD party tales the lead in the Netherlands
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1114853828921364481?s=20
'Baudet is a eurosceptic and opposed to multiculturalism. Baudet is an advocate for a return to nation states. In 2014 he gave a speech at the Flemish nationalist event IJzerwake. He also spoke at several Vlaams Belang conferences. Baudet has stated that his conservative political convictions have been largely influenced by two events in his first year as a history undergraduate in Amsterdam: the September 11 attacks and the assassination of Pim Fortuyn.'0 -
Popularity within a party does not translate into respect on the international stage. See Trump, D.HYUFD said:
Boris leads polls of party members and Tory voters and is the only Tory with a higher favourable rating than Corbyn (although both have lots of unfavourable too)Luckyguy1983 said:
Who is he actually popular with? He doesn't cross over. He's not trusted within his party or liked outside of it. His ambition has made him a joke. He's been slobbering over the PM job like a priapic St Bernard for years and it's an embarrassment.HYUFD said:
Rubbish, Boris has presence and charisma speaks foreign languages etc. Currently there are only 4 western leaders most of the world have heard of, Trump, Merkel, Macron and Trudeau (May is not a big enough personality or long servingbdnough to be noticeable beyond those interested in politics beyond our shores). Boris would help us punch above our weight again and be the most recognised UK PM since Blair.Cyclefree said:Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Given half the world is led by populist leaders anyway at the moment, Trump, Bolsonaro, Lopez Obrador, Conte, Netanyahu, Tsipras, Modi, Putin etc, Boris would just reflect the global trend0 -
Every country has its problems (I know a little about Canada's from first hand reports: dark humour about the forthcoming war between Alberta and British Columbia is exchanged on a regular basis.) However, compared to the UK, Canada (and an awful lot of other countries) are lands of harmony and progress.HYUFD said:
I am sure PM Trudeau would have loved to have you and of course Corbyn Labour both lost in 2017 and still trails in the latest 2 pollsBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1114826169944354816
These kinds of stories are now so routine that they pass almost without comment. And yet still 40% of the electorate looked at this man back in 2017 and thought 'Mmmmm... perhaps he might make a good Prime Minister - why not?'
If and when Corbyn Labour makes it over the finishing line, Britain deserves everything it's got coming to it.
I really ought to have got some more marketable skills when I was younger and emigrated to Canada, but hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?
Basically, we had to rely on a freak result last time that meant that only a fairly unpleasant, sectarian Northern Ireland party's distrust of Corbyn saved us from him. We may well not be so lucky next time. And you can forget about what 'the latest 2 polls' just said. They're no more relevant than the last hundred, or the next hundred. The know-nothing polls said Labour would be buried beneath a landslide up until a few weeks before the last election. And look what happened then.0 -
Cost. Also, I doubt they would be put on a regular plane if they were likely to be a danger to their fellow passengers.AndyJS said:
They shouldn't have interfered in something that didn't concern them. Having said that, I don't know why ordinary passenger planes are used to deport dangerous criminals.DougSeal said:
I’m guessing that there was no tannoy announcement advertising the fact that the passengers were about to share a flight with a convicted rapist and they thought they were doing the right thing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Certainly I have terrific sympathy with otherwise law abiding people who get caught up in this country’s inhuman immigration system and (shamefully) I may have been one of the protesters. I would have been pretty embarrassed after I found this out though. Just shows there are no binary solutions to a very complex world.Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.0 -
Rebecca Long-Bailey has also said Labour would consider 'very, very strongly' voting to revoke Article 50 if needed to avoid No DealHYUFD said:
Puts pressure on Corbyn and has no cost for Khan in heavily Remain LondonRecidivist said:
I thought he had already said it, but if not good that he's on board now.HYUFD said:Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says Article 50 should now be revoked
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1114852553764814848?s=20
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47845320/labour-might-vote-to-revoke-article-50-to-avoid-no-deal-brexit0 -
So migration to London, a strongly Remain city, caused Brexit? Not sure if I see the logic.AndyJS said:O/T
One of the most interesting books of recent years IMO.
https://debalie.nl/agenda/this-is-london-despair-poverty-and-unfulfilled-dreams/
"According to Ben Judah, Brexit was mainly the result of bad migration policies. In his book ‘This is London’, he shows the reasons why. His epic account of contemporary London is motivated by a desire to show the city in its true (new) colors: as a megacity of global migrants, some of them rich, most of them poor, few of them happy with their fate.
While he voted remain, he understands why so many people have voted for Brexit. The ideal of free movement of people has led to many problems. According to Judah, the EU is not working in its current form.
In Judah’s latest book ‘This is London’, we hear stories we have never heard before and meet the people we would not have seen otherwise. This is an account of the city’s variety and its divisions. Judah shows us the capital of the UK through the eyes of its beggars, bankers, coppers, gangsters, careres, sex workers and witch-doctors."0 -
If and when Corbyn goesRecidivist said:
Exactly. The talk of the Tories splitting is overblown and Labour splitting seems even less likely. But... if they did I think Khan would be a shoe in for the pro-EU bit.HYUFD said:
Puts pressure on Corbyn and has no cost for Khan in heavily Remain LondonRecidivist said:
I thought he had already said it, but if not good that he's on board now.HYUFD said:Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says Article 50 should now be revoked
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1114852553764814848?s=200 -
Yes, half of the surge comes from the militantly anti-immigrant PVV (Wilders), the other half from establishment parties.HYUFD said:Eurosceptic FvD party tales the lead in the Netherlands
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1114853828921364481?s=20
The Dutch Party of the Animals is continuing to do well on their single issue - up to 5% now.0 -
To be fair, the Home Office and Government have admitted deporting people inappropriately, including recently a new compensation scheme for the Windrush generation deportees.Black_Rook said:
I suggest that the "ordinary passengers" probably *WERE* faux-liberal hard left idiots. Did any of them even think for one second about why the bloke was being chucked out of the country, or did they simply knee-jerk react to a non-white person in handcuffs and assume he was a poor, innocent, defenceless asylum seeker who was being horribly mistreated by the iron-fisted Tory regime?Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.
Actually, come to think of it, even if they actually knew he was a vile, brutal rapist would they have changed their minds? Quite possibly not.
The contagion is spreading.
Is it any wonder that the average passenger is not so trusting that the right thing is being done?0 -
FvD are in the ECR in the EU Parliament with the Tories and also back policies like abolishing the highest tax bracketTheuniondivvie said:
You think? Seems to fit the far right template pretty well as far as I can see.HYUFD said:
FvD seems more Hannanite Eurosveptic than far right (plus don't forget Matteo Salvini)Theuniondivvie said:
Move over Geert, Marine and which ever eejit leads AfD, there's a new hearthrob in town for PB righties.HYUFD said:Eurosceptic FvD party tales the lead in the Netherlands
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1114853828921364481?s=20
'Baudet is a eurosceptic and opposed to multiculturalism. Baudet is an advocate for a return to nation states. In 2014 he gave a speech at the Flemish nationalist event IJzerwake. He also spoke at several Vlaams Belang conferences. Baudet has stated that his conservative political convictions have been largely influenced by two events in his first year as a history undergraduate in Amsterdam: the September 11 attacks and the assassination of Pim Fortuyn.'0 -
Not sure how else to do it. Do we either wait for a plane full of Sudanese to be convicted and exhaust the appeals process, and continue to feed and house them in the meantime, or charter a plane to Khartoum for one person?AndyJS said:
They shouldn't have interfered in something that didn't concern them. Having said that, I don't know why ordinary passenger planes are used to deport dangerous criminals.DougSeal said:
I’m guessing that there was no tannoy announcement advertising the fact that the passengers were about to share a flight with a convicted rapist and they thought they were doing the right thing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Certainly I have terrific sympathy with otherwise law abiding people who get caught up in this country’s inhuman immigration system and (shamefully) I may have been one of the protesters. I would have been pretty embarrassed after I found this out though. Just shows there are no binary solutions to a very complex world.Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.
In the circumstances it seems the less than ideal compromise.0 -
If you believe it's just "the design" I've got an aircraft carrier to sell you. The RN have already said the PoW will "focus" on rotary wing ops in acknowledgement that two CSGs aren't going to be possible. So, as the world's most expensive helicopter carrier, it will be ripe for a realignment of priorities or similar euphemism.DougSeal said:
I think this Telegraph report, according to which we are trying to sell the design rather than the ships, may be creating confusionTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't a sell off announced early on then rowed back upon since?Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/04/04/royal-navy-carrier-design-could-sold-india/
Having said that the Indian procurement processes make those of the British look like a model of alacrity (their first Hawk deal took 26 years) so it'll probably come to nothing.
0 -
You may not like Trump but ISIS has fallen on his watch, he has been the first US President to meet the North Korean President, he has forced China and the EU to talks on trade etc, he gets things doneDougSeal said:
Popularity within a party does not translate into respect on the international stage. See Trump, D.HYUFD said:
Boris leads polls of party members and Tory voters and is the only Tory with a higher favourable rating than Corbyn (although both have lots of unfavourable too)Luckyguy1983 said:
Who is he actually popular with? He doesn't cross over. He's not trusted within his party or liked outside of it. His ambition has made him a joke. He's been slobbering over the PM job like a priapic St Bernard for years and it's an embarrassment.HYUFD said:
Rubbish, Boris has presence and charisma speaks foreign languages etc. Currently there are only 4 western leaders most of the world have heard of, Trump, Merkel, Macron and Trudeau (May is not a big enough personality or long servingbdnough to be noticeable beyond those interested in politics beyond our shores). Boris would help us punch above our weight again and be the most recognised UK PM since Blair.Cyclefree said:Boris Johnson as PM would lower Britain’s standing in the world even more than our current failure to make up our minds. He is not well regarded, to put it mildly. He is a joke and to put him in charge of Britain at a time when we need to earn our way in the world, having pretty much torn up our existing model, would be a catastrophic mistake.
Given half the world is led by populist leaders anyway at the moment, Trump, Bolsonaro, Lopez Obrador, Conte, Netanyahu, Tsipras, Modi, Putin etc, Boris would just reflect the global trend0 -
One way it could be logical is that many tens of thousands of people commute to London each day and notice how glad they are they don’t live there/confirm why they moved away.Theuniondivvie said:
So migration to London, a strongly Remain city, caused Brexit? Not sure if I see the logic.AndyJS said:O/T
One of the most interesting books of recent years IMO.
https://debalie.nl/agenda/this-is-london-despair-poverty-and-unfulfilled-dreams/
"According to Ben Judah, Brexit was mainly the result of bad migration policies. In his book ‘This is London’, he shows the reasons why. His epic account of contemporary London is motivated by a desire to show the city in its true (new) colors: as a megacity of global migrants, some of them rich, most of them poor, few of them happy with their fate.
While he voted remain, he understands why so many people have voted for Brexit. The ideal of free movement of people has led to many problems. According to Judah, the EU is not working in its current form.
In Judah’s latest book ‘This is London’, we hear stories we have never heard before and meet the people we would not have seen otherwise. This is an account of the city’s variety and its divisions. Judah shows us the capital of the UK through the eyes of its beggars, bankers, coppers, gangsters, careres, sex workers and witch-doctors."0 -
I don’t have your expertise and can only go on what the press reportsDura_Ace said:
If you believe it's just "the design" I've got an aircraft carrier to sell you. The RN have already said the PoW will "focus" on rotary wing ops in acknowledgement that two CSGs aren't going to be possible. So, as the world's most expensive helicopter carrier, it will be ripe for a realignment of priorities or similar euphemism.DougSeal said:
I think this Telegraph report, according to which we are trying to sell the design rather than the ships, may be creating confusionTheuniondivvie said:
Wasn't a sell off announced early on then rowed back upon since?Casino_Royale said:
Source?Dura_Ace said:
The Fireplace Salesman has had the Indian Navy round this week running a tape measure over HMS PoW. He's going to need a hell of a day to bury that news if they decide to pull the trigger on that deal.DavidL said:
I fear he fails even at that.JackW said:
I'll raise you Gavin Williamson ..... whose only role in government is to make Chris Grayling look barely competent.Big_G_NorthWales said:Is there anybody as utterly useless as Shami Chakabarti.....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/04/04/royal-navy-carrier-design-could-sold-india/
Having said that the Indian procurement processes make those of the British look like a model of alacrity (their first Hawk deal took 26 years) so it'll probably come to nothing.0 -
It’s extraordinary how the most enthusiastic advocates of Brexit are utterly oblivious to the malign effects they are inflicting on the country and seek to scare us with hypotheticals.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1114826169944354816
These kinds of stories are now so routine that they pass almost without comment. And yet still 40% of the electorate looked at this man back in 2017 and thought 'Mmmmm... perhaps he might make a good Prime Minister - why not?'
If and when Corbyn Labour makes it over the finishing line, Britain deserves everything it's got coming to it.
I really ought to have got some more marketable skills when I was younger and emigrated to Canada, but hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?0 -
I believe he's called Count Worm.JosiasJessop said:
Yep. Thanks for saving me from having to scan it.viewcode said:
Is this it?JosiasJessop said:The Mr Men book: "Mr Silly" includes a worm that wears a top hat, school tie and a monocle, and which says "Quack! Quack!"
Unfortunately I cannot find an image of it online, but when she reads it to our son, she refers to it as "Rees Mogg". The likeness is uncanny.0 -
Actually the Tories won a majority of 60 in England at the last general election, it was less we needed the DUP to save us than Corbyn needed Scottish SNP and Welsh Labour MPs to give him a chance of becoming PMBlack_Rook said:
Every country has its problems (I know a little about Canada's from first hand reports: dark humour about the forthcoming war between Alberta and British Columbia is exchanged on a regular basis.) However, compared to the UK, Canada (and an awful lot of other countries) are lands of harmony and progress.HYUFD said:
I am sure PM Trudeau would have loved to have you and of course Corbyn Labour both lost in 2017 and still trails in the latest 2 pollsBlack_Rook said:https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1114826169944354816
These kinds of stories are now so routine that they pass almost without comment. And yet still 40% of the electorate looked at this man back in 2017 and thought 'Mmmmm... perhaps he might make a good Prime Minister - why not?'
If and when Corbyn Labour makes it over the finishing line, Britain deserves everything it's got coming to it.
I really ought to have got some more marketable skills when I was younger and emigrated to Canada, but hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?
Basically, we had to rely on a freak result last time that meant that only a fairly unpleasant, sectarian Northern Ireland party's distrust of Corbyn saved us from him. We may well not be so lucky next time. And you can forget about what 'the latest 2 polls' just said. They're no more relevant than the last hundred, or the next hundred. The know-nothing polls said Labour would be buried beneath a landslide up until a few weeks before the last election. And look what happened then.0 -
Tautology alert: "The contagion is spreading."Black_Rook said:
I suggest that the "ordinary passengers" probably *WERE* faux-liberal hard left idiots. Did any of them even think for one second about why the bloke was being chucked out of the country, or did they simply knee-jerk react to a non-white person in handcuffs and assume he was a poor, innocent, defenceless asylum seeker who was being horribly mistreated by the iron-fisted Tory regime?Foxy said:
Wasn't it ordinary passengers on the plane that stopped the deportation, not "Marxist faux-liberal hard left" or had the latter booked flights specially in anticipation?Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1114831093163859968
We risk all being blown up in a culture war between two rival camps of dangerous, radicalized idiots - the neo-fascist hard right and (as in the above example) the Marxist, faux-liberal hard left. And it's already well underway.
Actually, come to think of it, even if they actually knew he was a vile, brutal rapist would they have changed their minds? Quite possibly not.
The contagion is spreading.0 -
Tied with PVV as the latter collapses in FvD's favourNickPalmer said:
Yes, half of the surge comes from the militantly anti-immigrant PVV (Wilders), the other half from establishment parties.HYUFD said:Eurosceptic FvD party tales the lead in the Netherlands
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1114853828921364481?s=20
The Dutch Party of the Animals is continuing to do well on their single issue - up to 5% now.0 -
htpotheticals - worried theyre all gettting a bit remainy?AlastairMeeks said:
It’s extraordinary how the most enthusiastic advocates of Brexit are utterly oblivious to the malign effects they are inflicting on the country and seek to scare us with hypotheticals.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1114826169944354816
These kinds of stories are now so routine that they pass almost without comment. And yet still 40% of the electorate looked at this man back in 2017 and thought 'Mmmmm... perhaps he might make a good Prime Minister - why not?'
If and when Corbyn Labour makes it over the finishing line, Britain deserves everything it's got coming to it.
I really ought to have got some more marketable skills when I was younger and emigrated to Canada, but hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?0 -
Yep. If it ever came to a straight No Deal/Revoke choice, the HofC would vote only one way. And overwhelmingly too.HYUFD said:
Rebecca Long-Bailey has also said Labour would consider 'very, very strongly' voting to revoke Article 50 if needed to avoid No DealHYUFD said:
Puts pressure on Corbyn and has no cost for Khan in heavily Remain LondonRecidivist said:
I thought he had already said it, but if not good that he's on board now.HYUFD said:Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says Article 50 should now be revoked
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1114852553764814848?s=20
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47845320/labour-might-vote-to-revoke-article-50-to-avoid-no-deal-brexit
But, I think we knew that already TBH.0 -
Sounds like a modern version of Mayhew's London, a book I found fascinating in my youth. Sometimes surprisingly little changes.AndyJS said:O/T
One of the most interesting books of recent years IMO.
https://debalie.nl/agenda/this-is-london-despair-poverty-and-unfulfilled-dreams/
"According to Ben Judah, Brexit was mainly the result of bad migration policies. In his book ‘This is London’, he shows the reasons why. His epic account of contemporary London is motivated by a desire to show the city in its true (new) colors: as a megacity of global migrants, some of them rich, most of them poor, few of them happy with their fate.
While he voted remain, he understands why so many people have voted for Brexit. The ideal of free movement of people has led to many problems. According to Judah, the EU is not working in its current form.
In Judah’s latest book ‘This is London’, we hear stories we have never heard before and meet the people we would not have seen otherwise. This is an account of the city’s variety and its divisions. Judah shows us the capital of the UK through the eyes of its beggars, bankers, coppers, gangsters, careres, sex workers and witch-doctors."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Labour_and_the_London_Poor0 -
I'm sure some variation of the name could be constructed for Mogg.Sean_F said:
I believe he's called Count Worm.JosiasJessop said:
Yep. Thanks for saving me from having to scan it.viewcode said:
Is this it?JosiasJessop said:The Mr Men book: "Mr Silly" includes a worm that wears a top hat, school tie and a monocle, and which says "Quack! Quack!"
Unfortunately I cannot find an image of it online, but when she reads it to our son, she refers to it as "Rees Mogg". The likeness is uncanny.0 -
' ... recession is beckoning with a dark cloak, a skeletal finger and a voice that speaks in block capitals. 'AlastairMeeks said:
It’s extraordinary how the most enthusiastic advocates of Brexit are utterly oblivious to the malign effects they are inflicting on the country and seek to scare us with hypotheticals.Black_Rook said:https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1114826169944354816
These kinds of stories are now so routine that they pass almost without comment. And yet still 40% of the electorate looked at this man back in 2017 and thought 'Mmmmm... perhaps he might make a good Prime Minister - why not?'
If and when Corbyn Labour makes it over the finishing line, Britain deserves everything it's got coming to it.
I really ought to have got some more marketable skills when I was younger and emigrated to Canada, but hindsight's a wonderful thing, isn't it?
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/29/alistair-meeks-on-the-political-and-economic-crises-of-breathtaking-proportions/
And a good afternoon to all PBers.0
