politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting opinion moves sharply against TMay’s chances of gettin
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Nor is he a senior Tory.OblitusSumMe said:
Isn't he chair of a Commons committee? That's not a total non-entity.edb said:Charles Walker is my MP. I can only imagine that "senior tory" is polite journo speak to mean he is a total non entity. He is past "junior" but not yet "veteran". He isnt "talented", "prominent", "outspoken" or "influential" and has never been tipped for any kind of promotion. This is the only time i can ever remember him being mentioned in national discourse except in a list of rank outsiders for the non-vacancy of House speaker.
What would it take to be described as plain "tory"?0 -
Maybe. I do think the 'not this time but next time' crowd will regret it as they dont get another chance.Slackbladder said:
I'm not sure...I think there's a good chance if she doesn't get it tonight. She's gone tomorrow.Brom said:If you are ERG you are going to get another go at voting on May's deal, either before the end of the month or after an extension. There is no need to vote for it now with 3 weeks left until we leave. They may however have their hand forced next time round in order to ensure Brexit goes ahead.
Sometimes the last time really means last time.0 -
Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?0
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When quoted by journalists, all backbenchers are 'senior', except for a very few who are 'up and coming'.Philip_Thompson said:
Nor is he a senior Tory.OblitusSumMe said:
Isn't he chair of a Commons committee? That's not a total non-entity.edb said:Charles Walker is my MP. I can only imagine that "senior tory" is polite journo speak to mean he is a total non entity. He is past "junior" but not yet "veteran". He isnt "talented", "prominent", "outspoken" or "influential" and has never been tipped for any kind of promotion. This is the only time i can ever remember him being mentioned in national discourse except in a list of rank outsiders for the non-vacancy of House speaker.
What would it take to be described as plain "tory"?0 -
I wonder if the Tiggers have applied their minds to an early election. They would all be looking for new employment. They don't even have a party yet.0
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Is the view still that a GE at this point would kill TIG before it had even got off the ground? At least that would have the benefit of removing 11 Remainers from Parliament.NorthofStoke said:
I haven't got a stable view in my mind on the likely outcome of a snap election. However there are some pretty negative forces that will work against Labour and they are starting behind in the polls. I'm not confident of predicting anything, or should I say I'm much less confident than normal and I'm never that confident.kinabalu said:
I second this emotion.Danny565 said:IMO, Labour's position in a snap election will be "we'll extend Article 50 for two years, we'll negotiate our version of Brexit (Customs Union etc.), then we'll put that deal vs Remain in a referendum at the end of it".
Which would store up a lot of problems for them down the road if they actually got into government, but could potentially work as a short-term position to get them through the election campaign.
That would be the policy and I would give Labour a good chance of winning such an election.0 -
Ken Clarke.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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Well yes, but the 11 themselves could still stand as actual independents in their constituencies.DavidL said:I wonder if the Tiggers have applied their minds to an early election. They would all be looking for new employment. They don't even have a party yet.
Not that any of them would have a good chance of winning. Chuka might get a respectable 15% or something.0 -
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.0 -
Things would have been so much easier if Ireland hadn't been partitionedmatt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
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Polls taken outside of a GE campaign give a nationwide figure of party support. Once an election is called voters start to consider what are the options in their own constituency. There must be millions of centre left voters who are not prepared to speak in favour of Corbyn or Cable in a YouGov poll, but would vote for their Labour candidate in constituencies where the choice comes down to Labour or Tory.justin124 said:
But Kantar has them 10% ahead! In reality,though, most of the 6% recorded for Greens would end up voting Labour.OldKingCole said:
A GE on that basis could be 1997 all over again for the Tories, although, in spite of themselves, I suspect the LD's might do better than they did then.Danny565 said:IMO, Labour's position in a snap election will be "we'll extend Article 50 for two years, we'll negotiate our version of Brexit (Customs Union etc.), then we'll put that deal vs Remain in a referendum at the end of it".
Which would store up a lot of problems for them down the road if they actually got into government, but could potentially work as a short-term position to get them through the election campaign.
Also if an election is held in May, there are not going to be many TIG constituencies to mop up their 8% or so.0 -
Gareth SnellMarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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Rory Stewart.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.0 -
Actually that triggers a question in my mind. OK, so the EU would extend for REF2 or GE, we are pretty confident of that.Philip_Thompson said:Who said by the end of the month?
If it was up to me we'd extend for 21 months and the first thing to do in that extension is have a Tory leadership election.
But would they extend (specifically) for a Tory leadership contest?0 -
Brexiteers are more likely to own firearms.edmundintokyo said:
That would be unsportsmanlike since the brexit enthusiasts are mostly getting on a bit. Darts?SeanT said:Shall we just have a civil war? I think that’s the last option left. Take it outside, like men.
If MPs can ignore the result of a referendum they can certainly ignore manifesto commitments from a general election.Philip_Thompson said:
Come up with a Brexit that can be backed by Leavers then go to the polls to get backing for that.Sean_F said:
For all of Theresa May's faults, how would anyone else pass Brexit when the House of Commons has a clear majority of Remainers who oppose Brexit, and Leavers who oppose Brexit?0 -
Irrespective of the referendum, I'm certainly with you on the latter point.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope it is absolutely true. There is no point asking people to vote if you do not follow through on what they vote for. All those who voted to Leave will have been old their votes are worthless.El_Capitano said:
Also untrue unless Leave voters are to be barred from taking part in a second referendum, but yes, certainly elegant.kinabalu said:"The Prime Minister may have lost her voice but would she agree with me that if we end up with a second referendum 17.2 million people will have lost theirs."
I liked that. Elegant.
That is also the message that many of us will be pushing in the coming years. Democracy in Britain has failed and the whole system needs to be swept away.0 -
I really think that this is it, at least for this deal. The EU have been much more flexible than many predicted (indicating that they too want a deal) but there are limits.kle4 said:
Maybe. I do think the 'not this time but next time' crowd will regret it as they dont get another chance.Slackbladder said:
I'm not sure...I think there's a good chance if she doesn't get it tonight. She's gone tomorrow.Brom said:If you are ERG you are going to get another go at voting on May's deal, either before the end of the month or after an extension. There is no need to vote for it now with 3 weeks left until we leave. They may however have their hand forced next time round in order to ensure Brexit goes ahead.
Sometimes the last time really means last time.0 -
He already had an outstanding reputation.Richard_Tyndall said:
Ken Clarke.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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Not really... Its basically shown our political class at their most self-indulgent and absolute worst.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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This will be the same Starmer locked in a cupboard under the stairs by Corbyn?Endillion said:
Rory Stewart.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.0 -
I imagine so. They want to avoid no deal.kinabalu said:
Actually that triggers a question in my mind. OK, so the EU would extend for REF2 or GE, we are pretty confident of that.Philip_Thompson said:Who said by the end of the month?
If it was up to me we'd extend for 21 months and the first thing to do in that extension is have a Tory leadership election.
But would they extend (specifically) for a Tory leadership contest?0 -
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Rory did well for quite a while but he has been quieter recently.GIN1138 said:
Not really... Its basically shown our political class at their most self-indulgent and absolute worst.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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GrieveMarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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Starmer = Harry Potter?MarqueeMark said:
This will be the same Starmer locked in a cupboard under the stairs by Corbyn?Endillion said:
Rory Stewart.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.
Corbyn = Uncle Vernon?0 -
The problem they have is that, to some extent at least, NI remaining part of the UK depends on the good will and agreement of Parliament and of the Government. If they do screw us over Brexit then they run the serious risk of a future Government deciding the time is right for a referendum on reunification (as set out in the GFA) that they may well lose. There will be plenty of people like me who would be happy to see the back of them after this.SeanT said:
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.0 -
LOL. You must be joking. His reputation is in tatters. He is surely one of the most duplicitous MPs currently infesting Parliament.Foxy said:
GrieveMarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Nah, apart from the two major party leaders it has been our politicians trying their best to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It is not the politicians fault that they have been given impossible and contradictory instructions by their electorates.GIN1138 said:
Not really... Its basically shown our political class at their most self-indulgent and absolute worst.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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Ugh. No. Fuck that. I am happy to admit most Brexiteers have been diminished by Brexit, but the same applies to the awful Remoaners, and Grieve is possibly the worst of that odious bunch. He claims to be doing everything with some higher principle in mind, but really he just wants to reverse the vote, and ignore the stupid proles. Even worse, he can’t really be bothered to disguise his snobbish contempt. It positively OOZES.Foxy said:
GrieveMarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
He is disgusting.
When we, as a nation, write THE SECOND TWAT he will not get a positive notice.0 -
True but amongst those who supported Leave he has also managed to show himself to be the one English MP who maintained his reputation for absolute honesty whilst also adhering to his beliefs. Any reasonable Leaver can admire that.Philip_Thompson said:
He already had an outstanding reputation.Richard_Tyndall said:
Ken Clarke.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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I doubt that a "Brexit that can be backed by leavers" will get majority support in the country.Philip_Thompson said:
Come up with a Brexit that can be backed by Leavers then go to the polls to get backing for that.Sean_F said:
For all of Theresa May's faults, how would anyone else pass Brexit when the House of Commons has a clear majority of Remainers who oppose Brexit, and Leavers who oppose Brexit?0 -
Reputations enhanced ?
I'll go for Ken Clarke, Nick Boles & Caroline Spelman and that is just about it.0 -
where is this confidence that if the deal goes down, so does May, come from?
The woman just keeps going. Im not expecting some kind of tearful statement outside Number 10 this evening confirming its towel-chucking time. More likely there’ll be a nothing’s changed, I’m carrying on, next vote is tomorrow, this deal takesbackcontrolofourmoneybordersandlaws etc etc.0 -
Agreed. I wish he would join the Tiggers so we could get rid of him.Richard_Tyndall said:
LOL. You must be joking. His reputation is in tatters. He is surely one of the most duplicitous MPs currently infesting Parliament.Foxy said:
GrieveMarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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And Cooper (big time) and arguably BennEndillion said:
Rory Stewart.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.0 -
Top trolling.....Foxy said:
GrieveMarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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Several Turkish Airlines 737-Max 8s have had to turn back mid-flight because of the CAA’s ban.0
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MPs voting to block “no deal” doesn’t block “no deal” - that’s the default.SeanT said:
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
They need to vote for something else instead0 -
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
That is not going to happen, IMO.eristdoof said:
There is a third alternative: the planes are mechanically safe, but the changes to handling a near stall is the critical link. Experienced but inadequately retrained pilots are at risk in extreme pressure situations of reverting to their standard training, ending in a crash.rpjs said:Philip_Thompson said:
So the flight would still be going ahead? I'm worried we're going to be told the flight is cancelled.Pulpstar said:
Noone will be flying out of UK airspace on an 8 Max, and quite rightly so. So I assume if the flight was originally going to be an 8-Max it'd be another Boeing, or more likely being a european(ish) operator the fleet would mainly be Airbus.Philip_Thompson said:My wife and children are booked to fly with Icelandair in a few weeks. Is there any way to tell whether their flight is booked to be on a Boeing 8 Max or not?
Nothing up on Icelandair's website or on their Twitter page that I can see regarding this.
Either Boeing will satisfactorily demonstrate the Max is safe, and that the two crashes were unrelated (which is still quite possible to be the case) or it will find and fix the issue. Chances are that the Maxes will be flying again by the time you and your family are.
If this is the case, Boeing will have to convince the airlines, aviation authorities and the public, that the appropriate retraining to all 8 Max pilots is adequate. How long this takes is much harder to predict.
When Boeing re-engined the aircraft, the necessary repositioning of the larger engines on a layout not designed for them made the aircraft inherently unstable in pitch.
With appropriate modern flight control software, that need not be a problem, but as I understand it, rather than a full rewrite of the software, Boeing appears to have applied a patch (the 'Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System') on top of the existing flight control software used on previous versions of the 737.
The interactions between the software, the patch, and pilot input are complex, and apparently unpredictable (and very likely resulted in the first crash, and quite possibly the second).
Until the full investigation is concluded on both crashes, I don't see how you could even begin to say what "appropriate retraining" might be, or whether that might be capable of addressing the problem safely.
Similar comments might be made of the software upgrade that Boeing is currently intending to deliver next month, which (I think) is a patch to the patch.0 -
So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
Still, blue passports or something. Yippee.0 -
Be honest; had you even heard of him before he got appointed Shadow Brexit Sec?MarqueeMark said:
This will be the same Starmer locked in a cupboard under the stairs by Corbyn?Endillion said:
Rory Stewart.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.0 -
Indeed. Well said.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Mr Poll Tax on your list I see,,,Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable. That certainly includes dishonest people like Soubry, Grieve and Letwin. Hopefully part of the fallout of this episode is they will be driven out of the Tory party and shortly after, out of Parliament.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Did he have any reputation to defend in the first place?Brom said:
Gareth SnellMarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
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The DUP clarifying they are not abstaining seems like a clear warning that any other mps thinking of switching or abstaining cannot use them as cover.
They appear to prioritising demonstrating they hold the whip hand over the Tories rather than realise that the Tories cannot do anything if paralysed0 -
For that matter, I hadn't heard of John McDonnell before his meteoric rise alongside JC.Endillion said:
Be honest; had you even heard of him before he got appointed Shadow Brexit Sec?MarqueeMark said:
This will be the same Starmer locked in a cupboard under the stairs by Corbyn?Endillion said:
Rory Stewart.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.0 -
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
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You claim to be in favour of the Deal as the best way of honouring democracy, with the least damage to the country, and you do it plausibly (you actually persuaded me I should be in favour).Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
But you ruin your case with that list. Grieve, Soubry, et al, have never accepted the democratic will and have conspired at all times to subvert it. They are snakes
I can see the culture war, when Brexit is cancelled, is going to be very very nasty. We are a poisoned nation.0 -
In fairness, Letwin has voted in favour of the Brexit legislation. I don't blame those like Letwin, Spelman, Boles, who have showed themselves willing to vote for Brexit, but not a No Deal Brexit.Richard_Tyndall said:
No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable. That certainly includes dishonest people like Soubry, Grieve and Letwin. Hopefully part of the fallout of this episode is they will be driven out of the Tory party and shortly after, out of Parliament.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
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In fairness Richard, I think on this agenda item we can agree: we'd be happy to see the back of the DUP after this, before this, at the time of this or indeed at any time in history that one could mention.Richard_Tyndall said:
The problem they have is that, to some extent at least, NI remaining part of the UK depends on the good will and agreement of Parliament and of the Government. If they do screw us over Brexit then they run the serious risk of a future Government deciding the time is right for a referendum on reunification (as set out in the GFA) that they may well lose. There will be plenty of people like me who would be happy to see the back of them after this.SeanT said:
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.0 -
What is the reason other than 'Brexit'?_Anazina_ said:So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
Still, blue passports or something. Yippee.
Duty, delay for perishables???
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Isn't he responsible for there being a meaningful vote in the first place? Without it the deal would have been signed months ago.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disoirderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Its untrue though. They would not have triggered a50 if any Brexit at all was unacceptable to them. That would be honourable. I now back remain as I've changed my mind but if they are defended as not changing their minds, doing what they believed, their earlier actions show they did not always do so._Anazina_ said:
Indeed. Well said.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
But was apparently coasting toward retirement, in his late seventies.Philip_Thompson said:
He already had an outstanding reputation.Richard_Tyndall said:
Ken Clarke.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
That he has been a consistent voice of common sense and principle throughout a process which he had rather wasn't happening, is utterly admirable.0 -
Well, agreed, 'confident' would not be quite the right word for how I feel either. I actually, believe it or not, would not be amazed if TM gets the WA through in the end, survives and thrives.NorthofStoke said:I haven't got a stable view in my mind on the likely outcome of a snap election. However there are some pretty negative forces that will work against Labour and they are starting behind in the polls. I'm not confident of predicting anything, or should I say I'm much less confident than normal and I'm never that confident.
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But, he has done his utmost to torpedo an orderly Brexit, so as to prevent any form of Brexit. He may well succeed, or he may indeed precipitate the No Deal that he claims not to want.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disoirderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Oh, I agree. That includes almost the entire Labour Party and 118 Conservative MPs.Richard_Tyndall said:No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable.
I forgot one more MP whose reputation has been enhanced: Stephen Lloyd.0 -
An aside: watched ITV News at Ten last night. Peston wibbled about the ERG. He forgot that they're a small part of one party. Most MPs are pro-EU. The deal lost last time by 200 votes. Most of those opposing the deal were pro-EU, and many were from other parties.
The myopic focus on some on the ERG (a group worthy of attention but not to an exclusive extent), as if there aren't 600 or so other MPs in Parliament, is just weird.0 -
Apologies I hadn't realised Letwin voted for the Deal. I agree also about Boles. Living in the next constituency I have never really understood where there was quite such antipathy to him.Sean_F said:
In fairness, Letwin has voted in favour of the Brexit legislation. I don't blame those like Letwin, Spelman, Boles, who have showed themselves willing to vote for Brexit, but not a No Deal Brexit.Richard_Tyndall said:
No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable. That certainly includes dishonest people like Soubry, Grieve and Letwin. Hopefully part of the fallout of this episode is they will be driven out of the Tory party and shortly after, out of Parliament.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Ignore Brexit. Romney is an odd chap. Weirdness starts about 25 secs in.
https://twitter.com/BradfordPearson/status/11054646693539717120 -
LOL ! Sarah Wollaston her Leave instinctsStark_Dawning said:
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country. 0 -
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
A Protestant Celt? I think you'll find that most Duppers are ethnic Ulster Scots, probably descended from Picts rather than Celts – one of the problematic features of NI is that cross-sectarian sex and interbreeding is still fairly rare.SeanT said:
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.0 -
I would agree on Cooper. She sometimes seems the only sane person in parliament. I like her, increasingly. It is utterly tragic she is marooned on the Opposition back benches while your fucking Trotskyite clown of a leader peddles his Jew-hatred.NickPalmer said:
And Cooper (big time) and arguably BennEndillion said:
Rory Stewart.MarqueeMark said:Has any MP other than Geoffrey Cox come out of the Brexit process with their reputation enhanced?
Arguably Gove, Mordaunt and Leadsom, depending on where you draw the baseline.
And Starmer.0 -
They wont this side of April, unless its extension.CarlottaVance said:
MPs voting to block “no deal” doesn’t block “no deal” - that’s the default.SeanT said:
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
They need to vote for something else instead
These idiots are still acting like theres buckets of time.
And there are things government should be doing besides Brexit.0 -
Agreed.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disoirderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
I can understand, however, that leavers are unhappy with the way that he has run intellectual rings around them, and that the Tories are in any event notorious for despising cleverness.0 -
One man's 'snake' is another man's saviour of the nation. We are talking about their reputations, not whether we agree with them.SeanT said:
You claim to be in favour of the Deal as the best way of honouring democracy, with the least damage to the country, and you do it plausibly (you actually persuaded me I should be in favour).Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.
But you ruin your case with that list. Grieve, Soubry, et al, have never accepted the democratic will and have conspired at all times to subvert it. They are snakes
I can see the culture war, when Brexit is cancelled, is going to be very very nasty. We are a poisoned nation.0 -
But you list some of them as having their reputations enhanced? Strange logic.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, I agree. That includes almost the entire Labour Party and 118 Conservative MPs.Richard_Tyndall said:No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable.
I forgot one more MP whose reputation has been enhanced: Stephen Lloyd.0 -
On a lighter note:
https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1105449771760791552
Edited extra bit: I think I used 'snollygoster' in Sir Edric and the Plague (either that or Sir Edric's Kingdom).0 -
That I can forgive.Anorak said:Ignore Brexit. Romney is an odd chap. Weirdness starts about 25 secs in.
https://twitter.com/BradfordPearson/status/1105464669353971712
What I can never forgive is portrait videography – a crime against humanity.0 -
https://twitter.com/Geoffrey_Cox/status/1105393787243778053?s=19_Anazina_ said:So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
Still, blue passports or something. Yippee.
0 -
Remainers are unbelieveably thick, part 692.Pulpstar said:
LOL ! Sarah Wollaston her Leave instinctsStark_Dawning said:
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Yes. Easily avoided for him because he knew the deal would lose but he did it anyway.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, I agree. That includes almost the entire Labour Party and 118 Conservative MPs.Richard_Tyndall said:No one who voted to move article 50 and then did everything they could to frustrate Brexit can be considered in any way reputable.
I forgot one more MP whose reputation has been enhanced: Stephen Lloyd.0 -
Hahahahahahaha!!Stark_Dawning said:
I agree entirely with your list; those MPs are glittering stars of integrity against the Brexit's black void. I'd also add Sarah Wollaston. The way she countered her Leave instincts and embraced Remain when the horror of Brexit became all too apparent took a huge amount of intellectual self searching and guts.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
-
Whatever they may wish to believe, pretty much every white inhabitant of the UK is ethnically similar. There has often been a great deal of intermarriage, even if later generations prefer to think otherwise._Anazina_ said:
A Protestant Celt? I think you'll find that most Duppers are ethnic Ulster Scots, probably descended from Picts rather than Celts – one of the problematic features of NI is that cross-sectarian sex and interbreeding is still fairly rare.SeanT said:
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.0 -
Hearin'.Morris_Dancer said:The myopic ERG is just weird.
0 -
That focus originated with, and was maintained by May.Morris_Dancer said:An aside: watched ITV News at Ten last night. Peston wibbled about the ERG. He forgot that they're a small part of one party. Most MPs are pro-EU. The deal lost last time by 200 votes. Most of those opposing the deal were pro-EU, and many were from other parties.
The myopic focus on some on the ERG (a group worthy of attention but not to an exclusive extent), as if there aren't 600 or so other MPs in Parliament, is just weird.0 -
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.Richard_Tyndall said:
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Damn it, Richard. You have me agreeing with you again.Richard_Nabavi said:
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.Richard_Tyndall said:
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Nope. That's absolutely true. It doesn't surprise me that you don't take it seriously.Philip_Thompson said:
https://twitter.com/Geoffrey_Cox/status/1105393787243778053?s=19_Anazina_ said:So now – literally just now – been told by a supplier in Latvia that he can't ship a major order, because of Brexit (it won't get here before 29 March). So, our business now being directly affected by this fucking joke of a policy –the most stupid idea ever to emerge in Britain in the post-war period.
Still, blue passports or something. Yippee.0 -
While I know it is just a bit of fun, might be good to make it clear you've manipulated someone's comment._Anazina_ said:0 -
I think I'll go watch Captain Marvel again this evening rather than hang around to see how the vote goes. That at keast will cheer me up.0
-
Mr. Anazina, don't misquote me, you tinker.
Mr. B, anyone who takes their intellectual lead from May is daft as a brush.0 -
Do we think whenever he says “from a senior Tory” or “from a tip-top source” or similar it just means “from the head of Robert Peston”?williamglenn said:
0 -
That gets my vote. Call in the US, France and the Bundesrepublik to oversee that the British develp a new written constitution and a voting system which combines FPTP with PR. :-)Richard_Tyndall said:
That is also the message that many of us will be pushing in the coming years. Democracy in Britain has failed and the whole system needs to be swept away.
0 -
Up to a point.Sean_F said:
Whatever they may wish to believe, pretty much every white inhabitant of the UK is ethnically similar. There has often been a great deal of intermarriage, even if later generations prefer to think otherwise._Anazina_ said:
A Protestant Celt? I think you'll find that most Duppers are ethnic Ulster Scots, probably descended from Picts rather than Celts – one of the problematic features of NI is that cross-sectarian sex and interbreeding is still fairly rare.SeanT said:
I don’t see this logic. The DUP might be a bunch of homophobic creepaloids - or not (I have a soft spot for Ulster Loyalists, as a Protestant Celt myself) - but their actions are, ironically, making a border poll less likely, by making hard Brexit, or any Brexit, less likely.matt said:
I hope they enjoy the border poll which will likely be coming their way.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1105473464302006272
Someone failed to keep DUP on board last night.
If we go to Norway Plus or simply Remain (now much more probable as the Deal falls) then the GFA stands, there is no Hard Border, the Irish (on both sides) will breathe a sigh of relief, and everyone will gladly revert to normal. I think the desire for another divisive, bitter, combustible referendum, with unpredictable outcomes, will be approximately zero.
If we get No Deal and a Hard Border, then yes, a border poll looms into view. But that will probably be ruled out, tomorrow.
https://www.nature.com/news/british-isles-mapped-out-by-genetic-ancestry-1.171360 -
Fear not, I'll find something you can disagree with soon!Nigelb said:
Damn it, Richard. You have me agreeing with you again.Richard_Nabavi said:
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.Richard_Tyndall said:
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
It would've passed perfectly fine if no-one had been able to vote on it.Richard_Nabavi said:
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.Richard_Tyndall said:
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
Snollygoster: WollastonMorris_Dancer said:On a lighter note:
https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1105449771760791552
Edited extra bit: I think I used 'snollygoster' in Sir Edric and the Plague (either that or Sir Edric's Kingdom).
Throttlebottom: Francois
Catchfart: Fabricant
virtuecrat; Grieve0 -
It's hard to avoid following the political lead of your own prime minister without getting rid of her, though.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Anazina, don't misquote me, you tinker.
Mr. B, anyone who takes their intellectual lead from May is daft as a brush.0 -
So how is this lying, useless, hypocritical collection of scum bags going to get us back to remain? Surely that is the only question that is left.0
-
He's certainly not mostly to blame for things. But he's a fanatic who gets away with it by being clever and because people want to remain, and that annoys me because he's just as unbending and high risk in his approach as Rees Mogg. He shouldn't get away with pretending he's not just as willing to day ir do anything to get what he wants and damn everyone else, as the leaver ultras. I'd back remain now and I think Grieve is a hypocrit and a disgrace.Richard_Nabavi said:
The deal failed because the DUP, ERG and Tory Leaver backbenchers formed an unholy alliance with a cynical Labour Party to trash it. It's a bit rich blaming Dominic Grieve for that.Richard_Tyndall said:
No he didn't. He is one of the reasons the Deal has failed.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's actually provided the way out of a catastrophic, disorderly no-deal crash out. Nothing dishonourable about that, given that the ERG and friends have dishonourably torpedoed an orderly Brexit.Sean_F said:
Grieve has enhanced his reputation for cleverness, while also demonstrating that he is completely dishonourable.Richard_Nabavi said:Other MPs whose reputation has been enhanced by Brexit: Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Richard Harrington, Nick Boles, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Yvette Cooper, Oliver Letwin.
I appreciate that this list might not be popular amongst obsessively partisan Leavers, but by any objective standard this group has fought well and effectively for their principled views on what is best for the country.0 -
It's difficult to say what would happen at another GE as regards Corbyn.0
