politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With both CON and LAB having an interest in the Peterborough r
Options
Comments
-
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
Utter bollocks. You just don't want to acknowledge the scale of the issue.TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
But how can Islamophobia be as bad as antisemitism? Have people not read in the papers what these Muslims are like?0
-
Totally O/T, but one wonders at this:
'87 golf buggies were stolen from a local business in Bishop's Stortford between February 22 and February 25.
Information was provided to officers which suggested buggies which looked to be the same as the ones stolen, were being sold on an auction website from an address in #Romford.
Officers executed a warrant at the address and found 38 golf buggies at the property. After further investigation, the buggies were found to be the ones which had been stolen from the business in Bishop's Stortford.
The recovered golf buggies were returned to the owner and work is ongoing to locate the outstanding vehicles.
Essex Police would like to hear from anyone who has seen brand new golf buggies for sale and are suspicious of where they have come from.'
One wonders how they got them down the M11.0 -
"Swale council leader suspended from Conservative Party after retweeting support for Tommy Robinson"
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/sittingbourne/news/council-leader-suspended-over-tommy-robinson-retweet-200113/0 -
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
Really?TheJezziah said:Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.
0 -
Those MPs are Tories.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
Those who vote Labour mostly don't want to believe it.TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
The other eight too.Sean_F said:
Those MPs are Tories.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
0 -
Don't be so utterly and offensively stupid. Can you genuinely not see that context makes the difference between using the Jew/due pun in a newspaper article about Woody Allen films, and in a serious political meeting designed to investigate claims of anti-Semitism?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Probably you can't actually, if you can't also tell that today's line of "Don't be beastly to Laura cos she is kind to small animals" is as risible as yesterday's "Don't be beastly to Laura cos her mum's poorly innit?"
On reflection, perhaps you are a false flag operation by CCHQ.0 -
Actually, I have done - repeatedly. I did so this morning. Perhaps you were still in bed.......TheJezziah said:
It is pointing out that Topping is only a courageous fighter against racism in opposition parties only.Cyclefree said:
Ah, the “everyone is doing it” defence.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
Well, I suppose if it’s good enough for Labour and anti-semitism it will be good enough for Tories and Islamophobia, is that what you meant to say?
No surprise though that you don't call out any Conservative voters for this. I wonder why....?
0 -
Are you the boredom police . Feel free to be bored over anything you like and I’ll do the same .Ishmael_Z said:
OK. You are bored of it. Lots of people aren't. Which is more boring: a. a subject which is occupying most of the time of the Leader and Deputy Leader of Labour, the Gen.Sec. and the PLP and the UK's political commentators, or b. the internal mind state of a pseudonymous poster on an internet forum? So if you don't want to hear about a. why do you think anyone else wants to hear about b. - never mind, hear about it ten times an hour?nico67 said:
What twaddle, and what cause . I simply stated I was bored of a story . As I said I’d prefer a different Labour leader but putting that aside I don’t believe Corbyn is anti Semitic and he’s certainly done more for anti racism than many other politicians.Ishmael_Z said:
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.nico67 said:
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.MarqueeMark said:
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....nico67 said:
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .FrancisUrquhart said:
Wonder if anybody has a recording?Scott_P said:
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
I'll tell you a subject I tend to find boring, and that is quantum electrodynamics The reason I find it boring, is quite simply that I don't understand it. Perhaps there is a parallel to your own case somewhere in there?0 -
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.0 -
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.0 -
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.0 -
I have quietly read your posts and the responses and I have come to the conclusionTheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
'You doth protest too much'0 -
On reflection you are a nutter.Ishmael_Z said:
Don't be so utterly and offensively stupid. Can you genuinely not see that context makes the difference between using the Jew/due pun in a newspaper article about Woody Allen films, and in a serious political meeting designed to investigate claims of anti-Semitism?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Probably you can't actually, if you can't also tell that today's line of "Don't be beastly to Laura cos she is kind to small animals" is as risible as yesterday's "Don't be beastly to Laura cos her mum's poorly innit?"
On reflection, perhaps you are a false flag operation by CCHQ.
False flag operations and astroturfers everywhere...0 -
Corbyn didn't like Blair. Should he have been sacked from the Labour Party then?TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.
Or should the Party be able to be a big tent that can hold more than one opinion.0 -
Just by voting Labour they've proved they are pretty wise to the BS the Mail and the Sun usually print.MarqueeMark said:
Those who vote Labour mostly don't want to believe it.TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
I am not at all sure brexiteers are determined to leavePhilip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.
Their actions are almost certainly going to prevent the dream they have had for years and 2 years ago they would have jumped for joy at TM deal.
Purity is not on offer0 -
@TheJezziah is bit of an idiot TBHTheJezziah said:
On reflection you are a nutter.Ishmael_Z said:
Don't be so utterly and offensively stupid. Can you genuinely not see that context makes the difference between using the Jew/due pun in a newspaper article about Woody Allen films, and in a serious political meeting designed to investigate claims of anti-Semitism?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Probably you can't actually, if you can't also tell that today's line of "Don't be beastly to Laura cos she is kind to small animals" is as risible as yesterday's "Don't be beastly to Laura cos her mum's poorly innit?"
On reflection, perhaps you are a false flag operation by CCHQ.
False flag operations and astroturfers everywhere...
0 -
I am 100% sure they are not. The idea we will trigger again if we remain in is highly implausible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am not at all sure brexiteers are determined to leavePhilip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.
Granted, I may not be a typical leaver - I'm more regretful for a start, when most have not changed their minds - but if we do remain I'm not given Leave another chance. We have the chance now, and can develop in many ways after we leave and go into transition.
0 -
Been reading about the proposed exit manoeuvre that the EU have been working on for the backstop. Independent arbitration on whether the EU are negotiating in good faith on a trade agreement which will negate the need for the backstop coupled with a notice of exit.
That sounds very similar to what @rcs1000 has been talking about for a while and what a lot of deal supporters have said would be possible anyway with or without the EU's consent. If a neutral expert panel agrees that the EU aren't negotiating in good faith we'd have enough momentum to unilaterally declare an end to the backstop in x years.0 -
If you think that if we remain we will ever get to leave again, I don't know what to say other than that is highly unrealistic. Leave won't get my vote again for starters. And no matter how many times some people bleat about it, we would have left under the deal. Not a good enough leave, fine, say that, but don;t lie and say we have not actually left under the deal. Because that is what it would be, an out and out lie. And a lie I don't understand, since making the point that it is not a good enough leave is perfectly logical and understandable, it's honourable even.Philip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.0 -
Ishmael_Z said:
OK. You are bored of it. Lots of people aren't. Which is more boring: a. a subject which is occupying most of the time of the Leader and Deputy Leader of Labour, the Gen.Sec. and the PLP and the UK's political commentators, or b. the internal mind state of a pseudonymous poster on an internet forum? So if you don't want to hear about a. why do you think anyone else wants to hear about b. - never mind, hear about it ten times an hour?nico67 said:
What twaddle, and what cause . I simply stated I was bored of a story . As I said I’d prefer a different Labour leader but putting that aside I don’t believe Corbyn is anti Semitic and he’s certainly done more for anti racism than many other politicians.Ishmael_Z said:
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.nico67 said:
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.MarqueeMark said:
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....nico67 said:
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .FrancisUrquhart said:
Wonder if anybody has a recording?Scott_P said:
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
I'll tell you a subject I tend to find boring, and that is quantum electrodynamics The reason I find it boring, is quite simply that I don't understand it. Perhaps there is a parallel to your own case somewhere in there?
Quantum electrodynamics is actually really interesting :-P0 -
I agreekle4 said:
I am 100% sure they are not. The idea we will trigger again if we remain in is highly implausible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am not at all sure brexiteers are determined to leavePhilip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.
Granted, I may not be a typical leaver - I'm more regretful for a start, when most have not changed their minds - but if we do remain I'm not given Leave another chance. We have the chance now, and can develop in many ways after we leave and go into transition.0 -
Also the idea that if A50 is revoked that we would serve it again is so fantastically stupid that I can't believe a single person would think it's a possibility.0
-
Just been reading the thread today.
Politics is really stuck in a very deep hole at the moment.
When your in a hole you should stop digging!0 -
That is my point: it's not about QED, it's about me.solarflare said:Ishmael_Z said:
OK. You are bored of it. Lots of people aren't. Which is more boring: a. a subject which is occupying most of the time of the Leader and Deputy Leader of Labour, the Gen.Sec. and the PLP and the UK's political commentators, or b. the internal mind state of a pseudonymous poster on an internet forum? So if you don't want to hear about a. why do you think anyone else wants to hear about b. - never mind, hear about it ten times an hour?nico67 said:
What twaddle, and what cause . I simply stated I was bored of a story . As I said I’d prefer a different Labour leader but putting that aside I don’t believe Corbyn is anti Semitic and he’s certainly done more for anti racism than many other politicians.Ishmael_Z said:
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.nico67 said:
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.MarqueeMark said:
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....nico67 said:
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .FrancisUrquhart said:
Wonder if anybody has a recording?Scott_P said:
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
I'll tell you a subject I tend to find boring, and that is quantum electrodynamics The reason I find it boring, is quite simply that I don't understand it. Perhaps there is a parallel to your own case somewhere in there?
Quantum electrodynamics is actually really interesting :-P0 -
This isn't the dream though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am not at all sure brexiteers are determined to leavePhilip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.
Their actions are almost certainly going to prevent the dream they have had for years and 2 years ago they would have jumped for joy at TM deal.
Purity is not on offer
If you have a dream of buying a holiday home in Hawaii and are told that you can get somewhere in Hawaii in 2 years, then a few months before you are due to complete you find out what you've been sold is actually a dodgy timeshare in Spain and not your own holiday home in Hawaii ... and your solicitor advises you that if you proceed with this dodgy timeshare you'll be stuck with it forever unless those who sold you the timeshare let you out of the contract ... and that if you proceed with this timeshare you'll never be able to afford what you wanted ...
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?0 -
George Galloway left when Blair was leader, this lot left when Corbyn was leader. Those who can't accept the opposite side of the party being in the leadership are the ones who rejected the broad church.Philip_Thompson said:
Corbyn didn't like Blair. Should he have been sacked from the Labour Party then?TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.
Or should the Party be able to be a big tent that can hold more than one opinion.
0 -
If you have a dream of buying a holiday home in Hawaii and are told that you can get somewhere in Hawaii in 2 years, then a few months before you are due to complete you find out what you've been sold is actually a dodgy timeshare in Spain and not your own holiday home in Hawaii ... and your solicitor advises you that if you proceed with this dodgy timeshare you'll be stuck with it forever unless those who sold you the timeshare let you out of the contract ... and that if you proceed with this timeshare you'll never be able to afford what you wanted ...
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?
If A50 is revoked Brexit is done. Seriously. We will have lost any chance of leaving for at least 20-25 years and in the process given up any last crumbs of influence we had in the commission.0 -
Galloway didn't leave. He was expelled.TheJezziah said:
George Galloway left when Blair was leader, this lot left when Corbyn was leader. Those who can't accept the opposite side of the party being in the leadership are the ones who rejected the broad church.Philip_Thompson said:
Corbyn didn't like Blair. Should he have been sacked from the Labour Party then?TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.
Or should the Party be able to be a big tent that can hold more than one opinion.0 -
Are you now defining walking away as revoking Article 50?Philip_Thompson said:
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?0 -
With respect brexiteers are likely to lose it all because of their actions and I have no sympathyPhilip_Thompson said:
This isn't the dream though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am not at all sure brexiteers are determined to leavePhilip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.
Their actions are almost certainly going to prevent the dream they have had for years and 2 years ago they would have jumped for joy at TM deal.
Purity is not on offer
If you have a dream of buying a holiday home in Hawaii and are told that you can get somewhere in Hawaii in 2 years, then a few months before you are due to complete you find out what you've been sold is actually a dodgy timeshare in Spain and not your own holiday home in Hawaii ... and your solicitor advises you that if you proceed with this dodgy timeshare you'll be stuck with it forever unless those who sold you the timeshare let you out of the contract ... and that if you proceed with this timeshare you'll never be able to afford what you wanted ...
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?0 -
You are right. If we ever get off this horror train, public appetite for going back round to the kiosk and paying for another ride will be negligible.kle4 said:
If you think that if we remain we will ever get to leave again, I don't know what to say other than that is highly unrealistic. Leave won't get my vote again for starters. And no matter how many times some people bleat about it, we would have left under the deal. Not a good enough leave, fine, say that, but don;t lie and say we have not actually left under the deal. Because that is what it would be, an out and out lie. And a lie I don't understand, since making the point that it is not a good enough leave is perfectly logical and understandable, it's honourable even.Philip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa , but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.0 -
I've consistently said without a unilateral exit that's better than this deal for months. If it comes to that.williamglenn said:
Are you now defining walking away as revoking Article 50?Philip_Thompson said:
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?0 -
A solid logical argument.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have quietly read your posts and the responses and I have come to the conclusionTheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
'You doth protest too much'0 -
But unilateral exit from the backstop isn't a option?! Honestly, I fail to understand your logic.Philip_Thompson said:
I've consistently said without a unilateral exit that's better than this deal for months. If it comes to that.williamglenn said:
Are you now defining walking away as revoking Article 50?Philip_Thompson said:
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?0 -
So be it. If the choice is dodgy timeshare or lose it all then lose it all is better.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With respect brexiteers are likely to lose it all because of their actions and I have no sympathyPhilip_Thompson said:
This isn't the dream though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am not at all sure brexiteers are determined to leavePhilip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.
Their actions are almost certainly going to prevent the dream they have had for years and 2 years ago they would have jumped for joy at TM deal.
Purity is not on offer
If you have a dream of buying a holiday home in Hawaii and are told that you can get somewhere in Hawaii in 2 years, then a few months before you are due to complete you find out what you've been sold is actually a dodgy timeshare in Spain and not your own holiday home in Hawaii ... and your solicitor advises you that if you proceed with this dodgy timeshare you'll be stuck with it forever unless those who sold you the timeshare let you out of the contract ... and that if you proceed with this timeshare you'll never be able to afford what you wanted ...
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?
Would you go for a dodgy timeshare in their shoes? If that's how you viewed it?0 -
Swastika daubed on WW1 war memorial in Deeside triggering fury
What is happening to our Country0 -
Ask OGH. He voted Labour in 2017.....TheJezziah said:
Just by voting Labour they've proved they are pretty wise to the BS the Mail and the Sun usually print.MarqueeMark said:
Those who vote Labour mostly don't want to believe it.TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
A minor technicality!Philip_Thompson said:
Galloway didn't leave. He was expelled.TheJezziah said:
George Galloway left when Blair was leader, this lot left when Corbyn was leader. Those who can't accept the opposite side of the party being in the leadership are the ones who rejected the broad church.Philip_Thompson said:
Corbyn didn't like Blair. Should he have been sacked from the Labour Party then?TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:Peter_the_Punter said:TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.
Or should the Party be able to be a big tent that can hold more than one opinion.
Fair play my error. He was happy to get himself expelled as he disagreed that strongly with the leadership, not quite what I said originally though.0 -
If we can unilaterally exit from the backstop it's no big deal and sign it tomorrow.MaxPB said:
But unilateral exit from the backstop isn't a option?! Honestly, I fail to understand your logic.Philip_Thompson said:
I've consistently said without a unilateral exit that's better than this deal for months. If it comes to that.williamglenn said:
Are you now defining walking away as revoking Article 50?Philip_Thompson said:
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?
As agreed currently though we can't.0 -
Number of patients having to wait over 4 hours for a bed in A&E:
2010: 83,743
2018: 641,9630 -
It is becoming more likely day by day that brexit will either be BINO or no brexit, and if no brexit we will not leave again in decades if everwilliamglenn said:
Are you now defining walking away as revoking Article 50?Philip_Thompson said:
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?0 -
Yes we can. The government can repeal the withdrawal agreement and call it a day.Philip_Thompson said:
If we can unilaterally exit from the backstop it's no big deal and sign it tomorrow.MaxPB said:
But unilateral exit from the backstop isn't a option?! Honestly, I fail to understand your logic.Philip_Thompson said:
I've consistently said without a unilateral exit that's better than this deal for months. If it comes to that.williamglenn said:
Are you now defining walking away as revoking Article 50?Philip_Thompson said:
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?
As agreed currently though we can't.0 -
I think we recently had a discussion about how representative a sample OGH is of Britain. I think the conclusion was probably along the lines of not much more than many other individuals on PB.MarqueeMark said:
Ask OGH. He voted Labour in 2017.....TheJezziah said:
Just by voting Labour they've proved they are pretty wise to the BS the Mail and the Sun usually print.MarqueeMark said:
Those who vote Labour mostly don't want to believe it.TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
It's likely a 13 year old. He'll probably be loving the national - international? - attention his* idiocy has provoked. Such is the power of the internet....Big_G_NorthWales said:Swastika daubed on WW1 war memorial in Deeside triggering fury
What is happening to our Country
*It'll be a guy.0 -
How many patients treated in 2010 and 2018 to put a context in your commentbigjohnowls said:Number of patients having to wait over 4 hours for a bed in A&E:
2010: 83,743
2018: 641,9630 -
Voting Labour may prove many things ... but wisdom ain't one of them!TheJezziah said:
Just by voting Labour they've proved they are pretty wise to the BS the Mail and the Sun usually print.MarqueeMark said:
Those who vote Labour mostly don't want to believe it.TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,0000 -
It is not going to happen.Philip_Thompson said:
If we can unilaterally exit from the backstop it's no big deal and sign it tomorrow.MaxPB said:
But unilateral exit from the backstop isn't a option?! Honestly, I fail to understand your logic.Philip_Thompson said:
I've consistently said without a unilateral exit that's better than this deal for months. If it comes to that.williamglenn said:
Are you now defining walking away as revoking Article 50?Philip_Thompson said:
... would you proceed with getting this timeshare as it's better than nothing? Or would you walk away?
As agreed currently though we can't.
It will only be possible through arbitration by the sounds of it, which is a fair and honest way of dealing with any treaty dispute0 -
It suggests a disgraceful ahistoriticism is creeping into the national (sic) psyche.Big_G_NorthWales said:Swastika daubed on WW1 war memorial in Deeside triggering fury
What is happening to our Country0 -
Multiple charges*, vandalism, supporting the wrong side and the historical inaccuracy!MarqueeMark said:
It's likely a 13 year old. He'll probably be loving the national - international? - attention his* idiocy has provoked. Such is the power of the internet....Big_G_NorthWales said:Swastika daubed on WW1 war memorial in Deeside triggering fury
What is happening to our Country
*It'll be a guy.
*Against his character.0 -
Number of State Pupils taught in large class sizes (over 36)
2010 - 6107
2017 - 194550 -
What about the number of squirrels over the same period?bigjohnowls said:Number of State Pupils taught in large class sizes (over 36)
2010 - 6107
2017 - 19455
0 -
Not 8 times as many.Big_G_NorthWales said:
How many patients treated in 2010 and 2018 to put a context in your commentbigjohnowls said:Number of patients having to wait over 4 hours for a bed in A&E:
2010: 83,743
2018: 641,963
0 -
You are so funny.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
Request a statstic and you fire off another unrelated on
And zero hour contracts suit many people's flexible approach to work0 -
They do not collect that statistic.RobD said:
What about the number of squirrels over the same period?bigjohnowls said:Number of State Pupils taught in large class sizes (over 36)
2010 - 6107
2017 - 19455
Are you not in the least concerned by the state of the NHS, schools, unsecured employment. police numbers, knife crimes, disabled suicides?0 -
A pretty good rule of thumb throughout Brexit has been "when somebody states their position, believe them, unless they're Theresa May". When the EU says they're not going to time-limit the backstop (because then it's not a backstop), believe them. When some Leavers say they think that the backstop is a trap, or that May's deal is worse than Remain, believe them. When May says no deal is better than a bad deal, or that no PM would sign up to the backstop, or that it's her deal or no deal, or that it's her deal or Remain, or that she's not running down the clock, or that she's going to engage in a huge listening exercise... don't believe her.kle4 said:
I am 100% sure they are not. The idea we will trigger again if we remain in is highly implausible.
Granted, I may not be a typical leaver - I'm more regretful for a start, when most have not changed their minds - but if we do remain I'm not given Leave another chance. We have the chance now, and can develop in many ways after we leave and go into transition.0 -
All of these issues are being brushed under the carpet by Brexit.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
It’s another reason why no social democrat should support it.0 -
Your argument about QED is logically coherent and has reached a conclusion that proves your point. If only there was a three-letter-acronym I could use to indicate this...Ishmael_Z said:
That is my point: it's not about QED, it's about me.solarflare said:Ishmael_Z said:
OK. You are bored of it. Lots of people aren't. Which is more boring: a. a subject which is occupying most of the time of the Leader and Deputy Leader of Labour, the Gen.Sec. and the PLP and the UK's political commentators, or b. the internal mind state of a pseudonymous poster on an internet forum? So if you don't want to hear about a. why do you think anyone else wants to hear about b. - never mind, hear about it ten times an hour?nico67 said:
What twaddle, and what cause . I simply stated I was bored of a story . As I said I’d prefer a different Labour leader but putting that aside I don’t believe Corbyn is anti Semitic and he’s certainly done more for anti racism than many other politicians.Ishmael_Z said:
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.nico67 said:
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.MarqueeMark said:
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....nico67 said:
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .FrancisUrquhart said:
Wonder if anybody has a recording?Scott_P said:
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
I'll tell you a subject I tend to find boring, and that is quantum electrodynamics The reason I find it boring, is quite simply that I don't understand it. Perhaps there is a parallel to your own case somewhere in there?
Quantum electrodynamics is actually really interesting :-P 0 -
85% of people on zero hrs contracts would prefer not to be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are so funny.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
Request a statstic and you fire off another unrelated on
And zero hour contracts suit many people's flexible approach to work
What statistic would you like next?
0 -
These three MPs specifically cited ant-semitism as their main reason for leaving. Even if there were no other causes for concern, this in itself would be serious enough.TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.0 -
How many MPs have left the Labour party because of racism?bigjohnowls said:
85% of people on zero hrs contracts would prefer not to be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are so funny.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
Request a statstic and you fire off another unrelated on
And zero hour contracts suit many people's flexible approach to work
What statistic would you like next?0 -
Number of people in full time employment?bigjohnowls said:
85% of people on zero hrs contracts would prefer not to be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are so funny.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
Request a statstic and you fire off another unrelated on
And zero hour contracts suit many people's flexible approach to work
What statistic would you like next?0 -
Mr. Viewcode, Charles Martel should be better remembered than he is, I think.0
-
Maybe the social democrats should be helping to expedite it, so they can go back to focusing on the other stuff.Gardenwalker said:
All of these issues are being brushed under the carpet by Brexit.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
It’s another reason why no social democrat should support it.0 -
Percentage of non-pensioner households where no-one works?bigjohnowls said:
85% of people on zero hrs contracts would prefer not to be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are so funny.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
Request a statstic and you fire off another unrelated on
And zero hour contracts suit many people's flexible approach to work
What statistic would you like next?0 -
I think that is pie in the sky. If we do not leave now we will never get another opportunity. Parliament will make sure of that. Basically you are saying that because you don't like your own misguided interpretation of the Backstop we should remain in the EU permanently.Philip_Thompson said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to actually Leave.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
If you are of the opinion that the backstop leaves us trapped in, then without a unilateral exit clause we have less sovereignty in the backstop than we do in the EU. In the EU we can give 2 years notice, we've done it once we can do it again.0 -
I used to think it was just Peter Hitchens.Sean_F said:
John O'Sullivan would rather have something to complain about than to actually get what he says he wants.kle4 said:
Blimey, some Brexiteers are just determined to play into the hands of the remainers.williamglenn said:
You're misreading the Brexit mindset.TOPPING said:
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).Cyclefree said:
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
Turns out there are loads of them.0 -
There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.Casino_Royale said:I used to think it was just Peter Hitchens.
Turns out there are loads of them.0 -
I wish I shared your confidence.TOPPING said:
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.Peter_the_Punter said:
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.OblitusSumMe said:
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.0 -
Well over 97% were seen within 4 hrs in 2010Big_G_NorthWales said:
How many patients treated in 2010 and 2018 to put a context in your commentbigjohnowls said:Number of patients having to wait over 4 hours for a bed in A&E:
2010: 83,743
2018: 641,963
Its now 81.5%
So 641k represents 18.5% ie3.46m
2010 equivalent was 84k represents 3% ie 2.78m
The current figure is the worst ever in raw number percentages or any other way you wish to count it.
Open your eyes0 -
By FT Employment what do you mean?Endillion said:
Number of people in full time employment?bigjohnowls said:
85% of people on zero hrs contracts would prefer not to be.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are so funny.bigjohnowls said:Number of people on Zero Hours Contracts
2010 - 163,000
2018 - 780,000
Request a statstic and you fire off another unrelated on
And zero hour contracts suit many people's flexible approach to work
What statistic would you like next?
Govt counts 1hr per fortnight as employed
Carers as FT employed. Self employed even with zero turnover as employed
So depends what you mean0 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
Indeed. It's one of those things, like the Mongol Wars, that's absolutely amazing when you look at it. History could have ended up very different.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Viewcode, Charles Martel should be better remembered than he is, I think.
0 -
just going round in a little circle of despairThe_Taxman said:Just been reading the thread today.
Politics is really stuck in a very deep hole at the moment.
When your in a hole you should stop digging!0 -
TBH some of them have some very strange views, one Labour MP in the party and one recently departed both made comments linking being Jewish and capitalism, from a positive point of view but implying that those who are to the left of them economically are anti semitic.Peter_the_Punter said:
These three MPs specifically cited ant-semitism as their main reason for leaving. Even if there were no other causes for concern, this in itself would be serious enough.TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.
Plenty of Jewish people on twitter jumped on this, being left wing themselves. Arguably it shows a confused mindset or that they are actively using it as a political weapon.0 -
.0
-
Anyone who regards George Galloway as an asset to anyone but his opponents is not someone whose opinion I would ever take seriously. His support for Leave was a significant part of my descision to vote remain.TheJezziah said:
George Galloway left when Blair was leader, this lot left when Corbyn was leader. Those who can't accept the opposite side of the party being in the leadership are the ones who rejected the broad church.Philip_Thompson said:
Corbyn didn't like Blair. Should he have been sacked from the Labour Party then?TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.
Or should the Party be able to be a big tent that can hold more than one opinion.0 -
I don't know if you are wavering on wanting to remain at all but Galloway still wants out if it makes a difference!Fysics_Teacher said:
Anyone who regards George Galloway as an asset to anyone but his opponents is not someone whose opinion I would ever take seriously. His support for Leave was a significant part of my descision to vote remain.TheJezziah said:
George Galloway left when Blair was leader, this lot left when Corbyn was leader. Those who can't accept the opposite side of the party being in the leadership are the ones who rejected the broad church.Philip_Thompson said:
Corbyn didn't like Blair. Should he have been sacked from the Labour Party then?TheJezziah said:
Any racism is a problem TBH, if you mean it is a problem as in the leadership or large sections of the party are racist then I would say no.Peter_the_Punter said:
Three long-serving, respected MPs have resigned over the issue. Others have expressed support for them. How bad does it have to get before you accept there's a problem?TheJezziah said:Peter_the_Punter said:TheJezziah said:TOPPING said:TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Those 3 MPs also have large ideological problems with the party and were likely to be replaced by the next election. It would be inaccurate to say this was their only problem, Ian Austin didn't like Ed let alone Corbyn.
Or should the Party be able to be a big tent that can hold more than one opinion.
Also not sure if it was clear from my post but I pretty much compared him to TIG (who I'm not a fan of!) rather than complimented him.
0 -
TIG is launching a petition to scrap the benefits freeze.0
-
The Jezziah is clearly partisan, but what exactly is the scale of the issue? I don't see Labour adopting any anti-semitic policies. They are investigating allegations. There are plenty of Jewish MPs and members - in fact the previous leader was one. I just can't see why it is headline news.oxfordsimon said:
Utter bollocks. You just don't want to acknowledge the scale of the issue.TheJezziah said:
Labour has less anti semitism now than it did previously when Ed was leader.Peter_the_Punter said:
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.TheJezziah said:
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.TOPPING said:
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.TheJezziah said:I see we are still going on the 'evil Laura Murray' with thugs like Stephen Pollard leading the charge.
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now it an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Building up an idea Labour is anti semitic through false accusations such as Marc Wadsworth and then using his false accusations of AS and pictures with Corbyn as proof with Corbyn. Pushing the pro Palestinian = anti semitism angle on top of that was always going to cause a problem whether the party was anti semitic or not.
Changing policy to support the occupation of Palestine is not worth it to stop being accused of racism. To do so would be cowardly.
But until we do people like Stephen Pollard will continue to push the line by announcing a Jewish person who supports Corbyn as an anti semite for making exactly the same Jewish pun his paper has made.
I agree the party should kick out any and all racists but that will not satisfy many of the people gunning for Labour. Plenty of those going along with the attack have little or no interest in Israel but plenty of reasons to go against the left.
Edit: Also the association mainly exists in the minds of people on the right and centre of the political spectrum. Those who vote Labour mostly don't believe it.0 -
williamglenn said:
.
0
This discussion has been closed.