"She won't actually hold the title of Head of Complaints; it will just really look like she does and the actual Head of Complaints will be entirely answerable to her. Is that OK?"
Like Putin wasn’t President of Russia from 2008-2012.
I'm free for the next couple of months and am willing to serve as head of Labour's complaints department.
I have over seven years worth of experience of complaints and whistleblowing.
I also eat kosher food, kinda.
Oi! Get in line. I have 35 years experience of this stuff. I was Head of the UK’s Senior Banking Whistleblowing Forum. Last year I was included in a list of 100 Top Women in Investigations worldwide by Global Investigations Review. And I have instructed Charlie Falconer on numerous occasions.
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
There was a yellow card issued which detailed what was and what was not permissable (eg gunman running towards you/gunman running away from you). If it violated the yellow card it was possibly illegal, if not, not.
As for Bloody Sunday, on the balance of evidence it was judged that the IRA sniper fired after not before the troops opened fire and that in any case yellow card procedures were not followed. Did he? We'll never know for sure. The complicating factors being a) fog of war; and b) 1 PARA.
Karen Bradley remains an idiot, that said.
Hmm...when relations are quite so strained with the DUP this may not have been as idiotic as it seems, however ridiculous.
In 73 my dad's regiment was in Derry and some young soldiers were searching bags. Someone pulled out a gun and shot 2 of them dead in front of their friends. The women behind the shooter linked arms to stop any pursuit. The 18 year old soldiers standing there with automatic rifles didn't shoot. I still find it remarkable.
The various scenarios and training around what was and wasn't permissable were extensive. Literally a matter of degrees.
Edit and wrt the DUP relations, it's like they say about the EU: they have the internet too...
I just don't think any other army in the world would have responded that way. Of course there were crimes in a brutal war over many years but the British army often behaved with incredible restraint.
I agree but also don't forget this was an IS issue (internal security, not *that* IS!!). Your dad was patrolling streets that looked like the ones he had left back home. It was, as Frank Kitson, termed it, a low intensity operation and it was in our backyard. Not a kinetic war in a far off land.
Not to do down our magnificent professionalism. Para Reg apart.
That caused a lot of problems. Many of my dad's colleagues really did not think it was appropriate to be using their training on British streets and felt very uncomfortable about it. And one or two resigned in protest when some political idiot thought that the Paras would be good at the job.
Genuine question from one who knows little about the army: what is the issue with the paras?
Really like. Trouble is most of the calls I get are recordings telling me my internet or phone are compromised and I can't carefully explain my opinion of their parentage going back several generations. I used to enjoy the calls from the 'Technical Department of Microsoft' could keep them talking for several minutes until I got bored and just told them I had a Mac! One chap actually told me I was very wise.
One of the lying toerags on a recent call told me that he was calling from BT headquarters in London. I sometimes wonder whether some of these people are simply in a call centre in India and genuinely believe that they've been employed by a contractor for Microsoft/BT to help people, but I now know that at least some of them know they are lying.
Nah, they know exactly what they're doing. After you've kept them talking for an hour or so while waiting for your non-existant computer to reboot, ask them if their mother is proud of what they do.
Hmm...when relations are quite so strained with the DUP this may not have been as idiotic as it seems, however ridiculous.
In 73 my dad's regiment was in Derry and some young soldiers were searching bags. Someone pulled out a gun and shot 2 of them dead in front of their friends. The women behind the shooter linked arms to stop any pursuit. The 18 year old soldiers standing there with automatic rifles didn't shoot. I still find it remarkable.
The various scenarios and training around what was and wasn't permissable were extensive. Literally a matter of degrees.
Edit and wrt the DUP relations, it's like they say about the EU: they have the internet too...
I just don't think any other army in the world would have responded that way. Of course there were crimes in a brutal war over many years but the British army often behaved with incredible restraint.
I agree but also don't forget this was an IS issue (internal security, not *that* IS!!). Your dad was patrolling streets that looked like the ones he had left back home. It was, as Frank Kitson, termed it, a low intensity operation and it was in our backyard. Not a kinetic war in a far off land.
Not to do down our magnificent professionalism. Para Reg apart.
That caused a lot of problems. Many of my dad's colleagues really did not think it was appropriate to be using their training on British streets and felt very uncomfortable about it. And one or two resigned in protest when some political idiot thought that the Paras would be good at the job.
Genuine question from one who knows little about the army: what is the issue with the paras?
They are excellent at what they do. See Goose Green for almost insane courage and elan. But they are trained to respond to threats with overwhelming and disproportionate violence. That is what keeps them alive and it is built into everything they do. Putting a unit like that on civilian streets where there may well be some provocation was just never going to end well.
Hmm...when relations are quite so strained with the DUP this may not have been as idiotic as it seems, however ridiculous.
In 73 my dad's regiment was in Derry and some young soldiers were searching bags. Someone pulled out a gun and shot 2 of them dead in front of their friends. The women behind the shooter linked arms to stop any pursuit. The 18 year old soldiers standing there with automatic rifles didn't shoot. I still find it remarkable.
The various scenarios and training around what was and wasn't permissable were extensive. Literally a matter of degrees.
Edit and wrt the DUP relations, it's like they say about the EU: they have the internet too...
I just don't think any other army in the world would have responded that way. Of course there were crimes in a brutal war over many years but the British army often behaved with incredible restraint.
I agree but also don't forget this was an IS issue (internal security, not *that* IS!!). Your dad was patrolling streets that looked like the ones he had left back home. It was, as Frank Kitson, termed it, a low intensity operation and it was in our backyard. Not a kinetic war in a far off land.
Not to do down our magnificent professionalism. Para Reg apart.
That caused a lot of problems. Many of my dad's colleagues really did not think it was appropriate to be using their training on British streets and felt very uncomfortable about it. And one or two resigned in protest when some political idiot thought that the Paras would be good at the job.
Genuine question from one who knows little about the army: what is the issue with the paras?
They are excellent at what they do. See Goose Green for almost insane courage and elan. But they are trained to respond to threats with overwhelming and disproportionate violence. That is what keeps them alive and it is built into everything they do. Putting a unit like that on civilian streets where there may well be some provocation was just never going to end well.
Putting 1 Para into Derry 5 months after Ballymurphy is pretty close to the definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The officer ordering that bears a heavy responsibility.
I'm free for the next couple of months and am willing to serve as head of Labour's complaints department.
I have over seven years worth of experience of complaints and whistleblowing.
I also eat kosher food, kinda.
Oi! Get in line. I have 35 years experience of this stuff. I was Head of the UK’s Senior Banking Whistleblowing Forum. Last year I was included in a list of 100 Top Women in Investigations worldwide by Global Investigations Review. And I have instructed Charlie Falconer on numerous occasions.
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
You could probably find a pretty good team from the many lawyers and IT experts who populate PB.
The mistake you make though, is to think that Jeremy and Jennie actually want to do the job properly - as opposed to quickly finding the largest rug possible under which to sweep the whole damn problem. Look at the reaction to Lord Falconer's suggestion that he retain his own external team of lawyers.
I'm free for the next couple of months and am willing to serve as head of Labour's complaints department.
I have over seven years worth of experience of complaints and whistleblowing.
I also eat kosher food, kinda.
Oi! Get in line. I have 35 years experience of this stuff. I was Head of the UK’s Senior Banking Whistleblowing Forum. Last year I was included in a list of 100 Top Women in Investigations worldwide by Global Investigations Review. And I have instructed Charlie Falconer on numerous occasions.
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
You only had 34 years' experience yesterday, so I presume today is the 35th anniversary of starting work?
The various scenarios and training around what was and wasn't permissable were extensive. Literally a matter of degrees.
Edit and wrt the DUP relations, it's like they say about the EU: they have the internet too...
I just don't think any other army in the world would have responded that way. Of course there were crimes in a brutal war over many years but the British army often behaved with incredible restraint.
I agree but also don't forget this was an IS issue (internal security, not *that* IS!!). Your dad was patrolling streets that looked like the ones he had left back home. It was, as Frank Kitson, termed it, a low intensity operation and it was in our backyard. Not a kinetic war in a far off land.
Not to do down our magnificent professionalism. Para Reg apart.
That caused a lot of problems. Many of my dad's colleagues really did not think it was appropriate to be using their training on British streets and felt very uncomfortable about it. And one or two resigned in protest when some political idiot thought that the Paras would be good at the job.
Genuine question from one who knows little about the army: what is the issue with the paras?
They are excellent at what they do. See Goose Green for almost insane courage and elan. But they are trained to respond to threats with overwhelming and disproportionate violence. That is what keeps them alive and it is built into everything they do. Putting a unit like that on civilian streets where there may well be some provocation was just never going to end well.
Putting 1 Para into Derry 5 months after Ballymurphy is pretty close to the definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The officer ordering that bears a heavy responsibility.
It was a long time ago and I was young but I am pretty sure it was Willie Whitelaw who made that decision. Something to do with showing that the army was not to be messed about with.
I'm free for the next couple of months and am willing to serve as head of Labour's complaints department.
I have over seven years worth of experience of complaints and whistleblowing.
I also eat kosher food, kinda.
Oi! Get in line. I have 35 years experience of this stuff. I was Head of the UK’s Senior Banking Whistleblowing Forum. Last year I was included in a list of 100 Top Women in Investigations worldwide by Global Investigations Review. And I have instructed Charlie Falconer on numerous occasions.
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
You could probably find a pretty good team from the many lawyers and IT experts who populate PB.
The mistake you make though, is to think that Jeremy and Jennie actually want to do the job properly - as opposed to quickly finding the largest rug possible under which to sweep the whole damn problem. Look at the reaction to Lord Falconer's suggestion that he retain his own external team of lawyers.
Is Baroness Chakrabarti not available? I heard she was good at that sort of task.
I'm free for the next couple of months and am willing to serve as head of Labour's complaints department.
I have over seven years worth of experience of complaints and whistleblowing.
I also eat kosher food, kinda.
Oi! Get in line. I have 35 years experience of this stuff. I was Head of the UK’s Senior Banking Whistleblowing Forum. Last year I was included in a list of 100 Top Women in Investigations worldwide by Global Investigations Review. And I have instructed Charlie Falconer on numerous occasions.
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
You could probably find a pretty good team from the many lawyers and IT experts who populate PB.
The mistake you make though, is to think that Jeremy and Jennie actually want to do the job properly - as opposed to quickly finding the largest rug possible under which to sweep the whole damn problem. Look at the reaction to Lord Falconer's suggestion that he retain his own external team of lawyers.
Is Baroness Chakrabarti not available? I heard she was good at that sort of task.
She's already Baroness Chakrabarti, what would be her price this time?
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
You will note her extensive investigative / disciplinary experience - or not.
"Stakeholder Manager to Leader of the Opposition"
Well, she might not be very good wrt anti-Semitism, but it looks as though they're sorted wrt any vampire invasion.
I can just see it: Jeremy Corbyn: Vampire Hunter.
Some lowly admin person in the Labour Bunker is now tasked with doing a universal change in their entire data base, from "Jew" to "Vampire"......
...before Lord Falconer arrives.
(that may be if Lord Falconer arrives...)
... but they leave 'track changes' on in Word documents, and then email it out.
It's amazing how common that is.
People who forget about 'Track Changes' on office documents are nearly as hilarious as people who send emails externally in Office formats, or people who think that deleting emails from their computer actually deletes them!
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
Either party's Head of Complaints being sued for libel would probably register as a minor story, regardless of anything else that's happening. Being appointed (or not?) shortly after making the remarks she's being sued for puts it up a notch or two.
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Do you have evidence for your claim that nobody cares? I doubt a majority do, but no one?
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
Either party's Head of Complaints being sued for libel would probably register as a minor story, regardless of anything else that's happening. Being appointed (or not?) shortly after making the remarks she's being sued for puts it up a notch or two.
I think I need to dig up my image of the Iraqi Information Minister....
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Some people think Corbyn should be running the country. He can't even run his own office competently. If you can't see what a shambles he has administered here then you need to pay more attention to these stories that you're so bored of.
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Nobody cares if the complaints are dealt with in a correct and fair way.
If there is bias and failure to deliver a just result, then people do care. They could justifiably equate the poor procedure and respect to the perceived victim as a way in which Labour may operate in power. It is reasonable to project the internal workings and culture of a party as demonstrated in opposition to how it will approach government.
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Some people think Corbyn should be running the country. He can't even run his own office competently. If you can't see what a shambles he has administered here then you need to pay more attention to these stories that you're so bored of.
Bloody well said. The fact that the Leader of the Opposition is completely unfit for power is something that a responsible media should highlight every single day.
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Some people think Corbyn should be running the country. He can't even run his own office competently. If you can't see what a shambles he has administered here then you need to pay more attention to these stories that you're so bored of.
He can’t be any worse than the current clueless government . I’m not a fan of Corbyn but the public tune out when a story has been overly reported . All news stories have a life cycle , this one passed that about a week ago .
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
A lot of Labour MPs care. That's why the story keeps going.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm free for the next couple of months and am willing to serve as head of Labour's complaints department.
I have over seven years worth of experience of complaints and whistleblowing.
I also eat kosher food, kinda.
Oi! Get in line. I have 35 years experience of this stuff. I was Head of the UK’s Senior Banking Whistleblowing Forum. Last year I was included in a list of 100 Top Women in Investigations worldwide by Global Investigations Review. And I have instructed Charlie Falconer on numerous occasions.
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
You only had 34 years' experience yesterday, so I presume today is the 35th anniversary of starting work?
If so, congratulations!
Actually, I have worked longer than that if you include the teaching I did and the work at a London law centre. But I don’t want to come across like Methuselah ......
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Some people think Corbyn should be running the country. He can't even run his own office competently. If you can't see what a shambles he has administered here then you need to pay more attention to these stories that you're so bored of.
He can’t be any worse than the current clueless government . I’m not a fan of Corbyn but the public tune out when a story has been overly reported . All news stories have a life cycle , this one passed that about a week ago .
What, when he lost more MPs to defection in one go than any party leader has in over 30 years? Attention deficit disorder is a real thing, it seems.
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Some people think Corbyn should be running the country. He can't even run his own office competently. If you can't see what a shambles he has administered here then you need to pay more attention to these stories that you're so bored of.
He can’t be any worse than the current clueless government . I’m not a fan of Corbyn but the public tune out when a story has been overly reported . All news stories have a life cycle , this one passed that about a week ago .
The anti-semitism story has been going on for years.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm not 100% sure that the issue of Labour's complaints dept has cut through. If anything it might provoke the resoponse: oh Labour has a complaints department, that's great I've heard nothing about the Conservatives' one.
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Do you have evidence for your claim that nobody cares? I doubt a majority do, but no one?
This stuff probably doesn’t bother the public who are more concerned about knife crime and the lack of police officers. On this, as someone said upthread, Labour are scoring points against the Tories who are repeating the same mistakes as they did during the election campaign.
But this does affect how Labour MPs feel about their leadership and, therefore, is still important politically.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.
I'm free for the next couple of months and am willing to serve as head of Labour's complaints department.
I have over seven years worth of experience of complaints and whistleblowing.
I also eat kosher food, kinda.
Oi! Get in line. I have 35 years experience of this stuff. I was Head of the UK’s Senior Banking Whistleblowing Forum. Last year I was included in a list of 100 Top Women in Investigations worldwide by Global Investigations Review. And I have instructed Charlie Falconer on numerous occasions.
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
It's ok, I want to work on the Brexit inquiry, I think I'll make an excellent secretary to the inquiry.
That's going to be a full time one career job.
I'm really looking forward to the show trials for Gove, Farage, and Johnson..
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm not 100% sure that the issue of Labour's complaints dept has cut through. If anything it might provoke the resoponse: oh Labour has a complaints department, that's great I've heard nothing about the Conservatives' one.
The Conservative one works, as we saw yesterday.....
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.
Your boredom is of no political significance. The fact that this is destabilising the Labour Party is.
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm not 100% sure that the issue of Labour's complaints dept has cut through. If anything it might provoke the resoponse: oh Labour has a complaints department, that's great I've heard nothing about the Conservatives' one.
It's barely being reported at all, AFAICT - nothing on the BBC news website. Right now, it's a pure bubble story with no cut through, but one that is presumably driving moderate Labour MPs to distraction and consuming oodles of leadership time that would otherwise be spent actually opposing the government.
Eventually there might be a "Clinton's emails" story clone, which will bore everyone rigid, but hopefully hammer home the same points that did in Clinton: untrustworthy, arrogant, incompetent, security risk.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.
Your boredom is of no political significance. The fact that this is destabilising the Labour Party is.
It won’t be solved till Corbyn clears off . I’d happily have Keir Starmer , Hillary Benn or Yvette Cooper as leader but theres no chance of that . And if Trump can get elected so can Corbyn regardless of how useless he is .
I don’t know who is head of complaints of the Tory party . And frankly I couldn’t give a fig and equally couldn’t care who has the same role in Labour . The media are living in a bubble whereby they next will be telling us who the tea lady is at Labour HQ and whether she once made a derogatory remark about knishes!
Normally people wouldn't care. It's her past comments which make it a story.
The world is going to hell in a handcart and the media have now cremated this story. Do they not have anything better to do than report on Labours internal travails. They seem to think the public are kept awake at night over who will or won’t be in charge of complaints at Labour . Nobody cares the media have flogged this story to death .
Nobody cares if the complaints are dealt with in a correct and fair way.
If there is bias and failure to deliver a just result, then people do care. They could justifiably equate the poor procedure and respect to the perceived victim as a way in which Labour may operate in power. It is reasonable to project the internal workings and culture of a party as demonstrated in opposition to how it will approach government.
It's important.
At first I was inclined to dismiss it as marginal silliness that needed sorting out but was no more significant than any other story about ropey goings that are bound to occur in any large organisation, particularly political ones that tend to attract more than their fair share of freaks. As the story has unfolded however it seems to be revealing a fundamental shift in Labour's centre of gravity away from a generally liberal and social democratic outlook and towards a world view that identifies the USA and its client states, notably Israel, as the dominant forces in the oppression of the uderprivileged.
If you are interested in politics, you have to be interested in that.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm not 100% sure that the issue of Labour's complaints dept has cut through. If anything it might provoke the resoponse: oh Labour has a complaints department, that's great I've heard nothing about the Conservatives' one.
The Conservative one works, as we saw yesterday.....
haha! "we saw". Yep, we saw it. The lumpenproletariat? Not so much.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm not 100% sure that the issue of Labour's complaints dept has cut through. If anything it might provoke the resoponse: oh Labour has a complaints department, that's great I've heard nothing about the Conservatives' one.
It's barely being reported at all, AFAICT - nothing on the BBC news website. Right now, it's a pure bubble story with no cut through, but one that is presumably driving moderate Labour MPs to distraction and consuming oodles of leadership time that would otherwise be spent actually opposing the government.
Eventually there might be a "Clinton's emails" story clone, which will bore everyone rigid, but hopefully hammer home the same points that did in Clinton: untrustworthy, arrogant, incompetent, security risk.
And if Lord Falcone rsays sod this, Watson realises Labour is stuck with the Jew-Hater General, and leads 120 MPs to the TIGs.....I suppose that will appear on P.94 of The Guardian?
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm not 100% sure that the issue of Labour's complaints dept has cut through. If anything it might provoke the resoponse: oh Labour has a complaints department, that's great I've heard nothing about the Conservatives' one.
The Conservative one works, as we saw yesterday.....
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I'm not 100% sure that the issue of Labour's complaints dept has cut through. If anything it might provoke the resoponse: oh Labour has a complaints department, that's great I've heard nothing about the Conservatives' one.
It's barely being reported at all, AFAICT - nothing on the BBC news website. Right now, it's a pure bubble story with no cut through, but one that is presumably driving moderate Labour MPs to distraction and consuming oodles of leadership time that would otherwise be spent actually opposing the government.
Eventually there might be a "Clinton's emails" story clone, which will bore everyone rigid, but hopefully hammer home the same points that did in Clinton: untrustworthy, arrogant, incompetent, security risk.
And if Lord Falcone rsays sod this, Watson realises Labour is stuck with the Jew-Hater General, and leads 120 MPs to the TIGs.....I suppose that will appear on P.94 of The Guardian?
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
What twaddle, and what cause . I simply stated I was bored of a story . As I said I’d prefer a different Labour leader but putting that aside I don’t believe Corbyn is anti Semitic and he’s certainly done more for anti racism than many other politicians.
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
You miss the point. Again.
The issue is whether Labour’s investigative and disciplinary process is fit for the purpose. A number of people (not angry old men) but men and women with considerable experience of running investigative and disciplinary processes have said that it isn’t and/or have raised serious questions about it.
Laura Murray may be a perfectly nice girl - and obviously should not face misogynist abuse - but she appears to have, allegedly, libelled a member of the public, which will be a big issue for her employer and is not some one with any experience in investigative/disciplinary matters. It is perfectly legitimate to point this out.
Unfortunately, Labour seem more interested in defending their own - but note only a select few of their own, not those Jewish Labour MPs who have been targeted for abuse - rather than deal properly with the problems they face. This tells us something worthwhile about the state of Labour’s moral compass.
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
What twaddle, and what cause . I simply stated I was bored of a story . As I said I’d prefer a different Labour leader but putting that aside I don’t believe Corbyn is anti Semitic and he’s certainly done more for anti racism than many other politicians.
I’ve asked this before on numerous occasions. What has he done for anti-racism exactly? Specifics please. Campaigns organised. Legislation introduced. People helped etc etc.
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.
The issue is whether Labour’s investigative and disciplinary process is fit for the purpose. A number of people (not angry old men) but men and women with considerable experience of running investigative and disciplinary processes have said that it isn’t and/or have raised serious questions about it.
Laura Murray may be a perfectly nice girl - and obviously should not face misogynist abuse - but she appears to have, allegedly, libelled a member of the public, which will be a big issue for her employer and is not some one with any experience in investigative/disciplinary matters. It is perfectly legitimate to point this out.
Unfortunately, Labour seem more interested in defending their own - but note only a select few of their own, not those Jewish Labour MPs who have been targeted for abuse - rather than deal properly with the problems they face. This tells us something worthwhile about the state of Labour’s moral compass.
Rachel Riley is a bit of an idiot TBH, she shouldn't have said something inaccurate about her (if she did) but that doesn't really mean much in regards to her work, Rachel likes to target lots of Labour people and people respond back.
I'm not sure any side (as a whole) can lay claim to any kind of being interested in protecting people only. All sides attack the other viciously, the idea the left is the attackers and not the victims flies in the face of available evidence. All sides are at it. Jumping in and attacking Laura is the other side doing their bullying just as much as those in the centre or the right being attacked is.
All sides have various good reasons for their targeting and attacking of people on the other side, everyone can justify it because that person has done x and y. All of a sudden when it comes to someone on their own side all attacks are horrific and motivated solely by malice. Any political or other kind of reasoning is excuses for the attack.
If we want to talk about Jewish people under attack why not all the Jewish left wingers who constantly get called Kapo (and various other things) by angry right/centre wing types, why does being left wing justify the constant anti semitism they get from centrist and right wing types?
The concern should not only for those politically close, no abuse should be acceptable on any side.
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
There was a yellow card issued which detailed what was and what was not permissable (eg gunman running towards you/gunman running away from you). If it violated the yellow card it was possibly illegal, if not, not.
As for Bloody Sunday, on the balance of evidence it was judged that the IRA sniper fired after not before the troops opened fire and that in any case yellow card procedures were not followed. Did he? We'll never know for sure. The complicating factors being a) fog of war; and b) 1 PARA.
Karen Bradley remains an idiot, that said.
Hmm...when relations are quite so strained with the DUP this may not have been as idiotic as it seems, however ridiculous.
In 73 my dad's regiment was in Derry and some young soldiers were searching bags. Someone pulled out a gun and shot 2 of them dead in front of their friends. The women behind the shooter linked arms to stop any pursuit. The 18 year old soldiers standing there with automatic rifles didn't shoot. I still find it remarkable.
The various scenarios and training around what was and wasn't permissable were extensive. Literally a matter of degrees.
Edit and wrt the DUP relations, it's like they say about the EU: they have the internet too...
I just don't think any other army in the world would have responded that way. Of course there were crimes in a brutal war over many years but the British army often behaved with incredible restraint.
I agree but also don't forget this was an IS issue (internal security, not *that* IS!!). Your dad was patrolling streets that looked like the ones he had left back home. It was, as Frank Kitson, termed it, a low intensity operation and it was in our backyard. Not a kinetic war in a far off land.
Not to do down our magnificent professionalism. Para Reg apart.
That caused a lot of problems. Many of my dad's colleagues really did not think it was appropriate to be using their training on British streets and felt very uncomfortable about it. And one or two resigned in protest when some political idiot thought that the Paras would be good at the job.
Genuine question from one who knows little about the army: what is the issue with the paras?
The IRA got their revenge against the Paras at Warrenpoint in 1979.
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Finally you accept that Labour has a "serious antisemitism problem". Well done you.
As long as racism exists in society Labour will have a racism problem, as any racism is a problem.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
Sorry, Jezz, but 'Yeah but...' won't do.
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now is an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
Thomas Gardiner, a Corbyn ally, was the Labour official who directed that a party member responsible for posting an antisemitic image from a far-right website should not face immediate suspension, The Times can reveal.
Mr Gardiner, Labour’s director of governance and legal, judged that the image was “anti-Israel, not anti-Jewish”.
The Labour councillor in Camden was brought in last year after the arrival of Jennie Formby, the new general secretary.
Zzzzzzz. A meteor could be about to wipe out life on earth and the media would still be droning on about Labour .
And the BBC could run footage of Corbyn dressed in Waffen SS uniform under an Arbeit Macht Frei arch - and you'd still refuse to see there was any news value in it....
I’ve said on numerous occasions I’m not a fan of Corbyn . So not sure what you’re point is. I simply said I’m bored of the story.
If you're bored of it why do you talk about it? And why does the situation arise that you have to say "on numerous occasions" that you are not a fan of Corbyn's? Its a puzzling coincidence that people are routinely making the same mistake about you.
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
What twaddle, and what cause . I simply stated I was bored of a story . As I said I’d prefer a different Labour leader but putting that aside I don’t believe Corbyn is anti Semitic and he’s certainly done more for anti racism than many other politicians.
OK. You are bored of it. Lots of people aren't. Which is more boring: a. a subject which is occupying most of the time of the Leader and Deputy Leader of Labour, the Gen.Sec. and the PLP and the UK's political commentators, or b. the internal mind state of a pseudonymous poster on an internet forum? So if you don't want to hear about a. why do you think anyone else wants to hear about b. - never mind, hear about it ten times an hour?
I'll tell you a subject I tend to find boring, and that is quantum electrodynamics The reason I find it boring, is quite simply that I don't understand it. Perhaps there is a parallel to your own case somewhere in there?
Mr. 67, the current government is very unimpressive.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
I kind of feel like debating the relative merits of Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn as PM is akin to debating whether it is better or worse to have an arm amputated, or a leg. I think I can appreciate reasonable arguments for why one might be better than the other as a theoretical exercise, but mostly one just hears "voting for us is the only way to stop your leg/arm from being amputated" and that isn't really a choice that I am interested in making.
Quite some time ago, Richard Nabavi (of this parish) stated that it was not inconceivable that we could be heading for the double whammy of a No Deal Brexit and 'Venezuela'. I think at the time this was regarded as highly unlikely, but I wouldn't be so sure now.
Calm yourself. We are heading for a deal.
Why do you say that? We’re 23 days away from Brexit day. There is no sign of enough MPs changing their mind and the so-called negotiations in Brussels appear to be going nowhere.
Because no deal is impossible so that leaves a deal or no Brexit and I think even the headbangers will realise that the former, for them, is better than the latter (although it could of course go to a referendum).
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
Comments
You can be on my team.
Of course, the Labour Party wouldn't be able to afford me and I too have a reputation to maintain. But they could do worse, much worse. And they probably will.
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000169-505f-dc75-affd-dfffe1070000
Well, she might not be very good wrt anti-Semitism, but it looks as though they're sorted wrt any vampire invasion.
I can just see it: Jeremy Corbyn: Vampire Hunter.
The mistake you make though, is to think that Jeremy and Jennie actually want to do the job properly - as opposed to quickly finding the largest rug possible under which to sweep the whole damn problem. Look at the reaction to Lord Falconer's suggestion that he retain his own external team of lawyers.
If so, congratulations!
...before Lord Falconer arrives.
(that may be if Lord Falconer arrives...)
It's amazing how common that is.
Maybe we'll soon see Baroness Laura Murray?
If there is bias and failure to deliver a just result, then people do care. They could justifiably equate the poor procedure and respect to the perceived victim as a way in which Labour may operate in power. It is reasonable to project the internal workings and culture of a party as demonstrated in opposition to how it will approach government.
And yet, Corbyn would be worse.
Oxford Street terror bomb plotter Lewis Ludlow jailed
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-47466625
This stuff probably doesn’t bother the public who are more concerned about knife crime and the lack of police officers. On this, as someone said upthread, Labour are scoring points against the Tories who are repeating the same mistakes as they did during the election campaign.
But this does affect how Labour MPs feel about their leadership and, therefore, is still important politically.
That's going to be a full time one career job.
I'm really looking forward to the show trials for Gove, Farage, and Johnson..
Here are a few Jewish people who have campaigned against anti semitism with their opinion on Laura.
https://twitter.com/mrwtch/status/1102986750899703815
https://twitter.com/jonlansman/status/1103052119316328451
https://twitter.com/YannisGourtso/status/1102984852473896960
https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Newmark/status/1102921395267424256
We can now go back to thrashing the young woman now on the say of angry old men like Stephen Pollard.
Eventually there might be a "Clinton's emails" story clone, which will bore everyone rigid, but hopefully hammer home the same points that did in Clinton: untrustworthy, arrogant, incompetent, security risk.
At first I was inclined to dismiss it as marginal silliness that needed sorting out but was no more significant than any other story about ropey goings that are bound to occur in any large organisation, particularly political ones that tend to attract more than their fair share of freaks. As the story has unfolded however it seems to be revealing a fundamental shift in Labour's centre of gravity away from a generally liberal and social democratic outlook and towards a world view that identifies the USA and its client states, notably Israel, as the dominant forces in the oppression of the uderprivileged.
If you are interested in politics, you have to be interested in that.
What you are is an astroturfer. You are so transparently bad at it that you must be an enthusiastic amateur, because no one would pay for this kind of stuff. Can I urge you to consider the possibility that you are simply embarrassing the people whose cause you think you are assisting?
Can someone tell Kevin Schofield its "their" NOT "there"
He tweeted the wrongest thing in the history of Twitter.
https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1103047499906977795
There was also the ex candidate who got suspended for comments came back become a candidate and then quit the party when given publicity.
Edit: Although in fairness the lower levels might feel a bit hard done by, I mean if Boris can mock the 'bank robbers' why can't they?!
The issue is whether Labour’s investigative and disciplinary process is fit for the purpose. A number of people (not angry old men) but men and women with considerable experience of running investigative and disciplinary processes have said that it isn’t and/or have raised serious questions about it.
Laura Murray may be a perfectly nice girl - and obviously should not face misogynist abuse - but she appears to have, allegedly, libelled a member of the public, which will be a big issue for her employer and is not some one with any experience in investigative/disciplinary matters. It is perfectly legitimate to point this out.
Unfortunately, Labour seem more interested in defending their own - but note only a select few of their own, not those Jewish Labour MPs who have been targeted for abuse - rather than deal properly with the problems they face. This tells us something worthwhile about the state of Labour’s moral compass.
Be nice if you could adopt a similar approach with your own party, I won't be holding my breath.
Well, I suppose if it’s good enough for Labour and anti-semitism it will be good enough for Tories and Islamophobia, is that what you meant to say?
Tory racism bad?
But please don't hold your breath as you would be a loss to the site.
I'm not sure any side (as a whole) can lay claim to any kind of being interested in protecting people only. All sides attack the other viciously, the idea the left is the attackers and not the victims flies in the face of available evidence. All sides are at it. Jumping in and attacking Laura is the other side doing their bullying just as much as those in the centre or the right being attacked is.
All sides have various good reasons for their targeting and attacking of people on the other side, everyone can justify it because that person has done x and y. All of a sudden when it comes to someone on their own side all attacks are horrific and motivated solely by malice. Any political or other kind of reasoning is excuses for the attack.
If we want to talk about Jewish people under attack why not all the Jewish left wingers who constantly get called Kapo (and various other things) by angry right/centre wing types, why does being left wing justify the constant anti semitism they get from centrist and right wing types?
The concern should not only for those politically close, no abuse should be acceptable on any side.
Once you realise no deal is impossible, then that leaves the improbable.
No surprise though that you don't call out any Conservative voters for this. I wonder why....?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47472902
https://twitter.com/JohnOSullivanNR/status/1102965488076967936
It is preposterous that Labour should be associated in any way with anti-semitism. It doesn't matter what other Parties may say or do. Labour has to be cleaner and purer than the driven snow in this regard. It was under every single Leader in my lifetime. That it is not now is an indictment the current Leadership cannot escape.
Mr Gardiner, Labour’s director of governance and legal, judged that the image was “anti-Israel, not anti-Jewish”.
The Labour councillor in Camden was brought in last year after the arrival of Jennie Formby, the new general secretary.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/fwd-draft-9tnpkfh6x
I'll tell you a subject I tend to find boring, and that is quantum electrodynamics The reason I find it boring, is quite simply that I don't understand it. Perhaps there is a parallel to your own case somewhere in there?
Parliament votes down deal, EU refuses extension because it's pointless >>> no deal happens.
I don't think it's terribly likely, but as the default it's clearly a distinct possibility.