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תרועותJosiasJessop said:As someone was unwise enough to mention cool science and engineering, here's a video of Japan's Hayabusa-2 probe landing on the asteroid Riyugu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xnInpqMiG4
To give some context, this is insanely far away, and is tricky because the asteroid's gravity is so low a person could probably jump up and reach escape velocity.
And in similar news; an Israeli private moon lander is on its way to the Moon
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/mar/05/israels-first-moon-mission-spacecraft-beresheet-sends-back-selfie0 -
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal0 -
I have recently been coming round to the conclusion that TM is now nearing the end of her Premiership and due to the deadlock in the HOC, even on day to day legislation, a new PM would be wise to go to the Country by the AutumnDecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal0 -
Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....0
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With Salah - Liverpool's ultimate nightmareMarqueeMark said:Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....
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I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
TSE may yet rethink that job in Frankfurt.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
With Salah - Liverpool's ultimate nightmareMarqueeMark said:Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....
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I'd have thought Poch would be poached.MarqueeMark said:Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....
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Klopp has already turned down Real Madrid.Pulpstar said:
I'd have thought Poch would be poached.MarqueeMark said:Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....
In his biography he has said it doesn’t appeal to him as it an ejector seat of a job and more crucially he would never take a job where he can’t speak the language.0 -
They tried to sign him last summer he said no and signed a contract extension.Big_G_NorthWales said:
With Salah - Liverpool's ultimate nightmareMarqueeMark said:Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....
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....until the horse's head in his bed.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Klopp has already turned down Real Madrid.Pulpstar said:
I'd have thought Poch would be poached.MarqueeMark said:Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....
In his biography he has said it doesn’t appeal to him as it an ejector seat of a job and more crucially he would never take a job where he can’t speak the language.0 -
We’re more financially secure than Real.MarqueeMark said:
....until the horse's head in his bed.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Klopp has already turned down Real Madrid.Pulpstar said:
I'd have thought Poch would be poached.MarqueeMark said:Klopp to Real Madrid? One of the names in the frame....
In his biography he has said it doesn’t appeal to him as it an ejector seat of a job and more crucially he would never take a job where he can’t speak the language.0 -
It would be better to seek a mandate after TIG become established. Seeking one now would strangle TIG at birth and force left wing voters to back Labour and risks Corbyn becoming PM.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal0 -
Thanks. So Grey had 5 PMs in his Cabinet?OnlyLivingBoy said:
He was known as Edward Stanley before he became the Earl of Derby and Wiki says he joined the Cabinet in 1831.rottenborough said:
Lord Derby isn't in the wikipedia list of Grey's Cabinet. Has wiki got it wrong?Recidivist said:
.DecrepitJohnL said:
Lord Derby.ydoethur said:
I get Palmerston, Melbourne and (eventually) Russell. Who was the fourth?DecrepitJohnL said:
On behalf of the 19th Century ... Earl Grey's Cabinet contained four future prime ministers which is probably some sort of record, passed the Great Reform Act, restricted child labour and abolished slavery. We won't be drinking Mrs May tea a hundred years from now.rottenborough said:
Is this the worst Cabinet since the 19th century?another_richard said:
Obviously this is bollox but like all of Williamson's posturings its bollox designed to impress Conservative members.williamglenn said:
But does it actually work ?
Are Conservative members actually impressed by what Williamson says ?
You've forgotten however that they also introduced workhouses.
Confession time: I'd just read it in Gimson's Prime Ministers, which is a sort of modern take on the old Ladybird Kings & Queens books (as iirc was once mooted on here many years ago).
I think you are overestimating Labour's capabilities a bit there. They do have a large membership, but not enough to run covert operations to undermine other parties.MarqueeMark said:
If I were Labour, I'd be infiltrating the hell out of them, with mutliple flavours of "phobes" to make maximum mischief....rottenborough said:
I do hope that before TIG allow new members, they have set up a vetting service that would make MI5 blush.HYUFD said:
Otherwise the fairly obvious is going to happen...0 -
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Sounds like Cox at least fighting hard for the Uk.Scott_P said:
Or giving the impression he is anyway.0 -
Only in the sense that they're an empty vessel into which sane and reasonable policies can be projected. Their "statement" is basically reheated Blairism, which is not necessarily a bad thing in itself (and certainly better than the thin gruel on offer from the two main parties right now), but not particularly an answer to the challenges of 2019._Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:0 -
I am green on Hammond but not pressing up till we see who will stand. He has a good story on the economy and MPs will likely want a safe pair of hands after Brexit. Javid and Hunt in the other great offices of state have come across as a bit lightweight in the last couple of months, although I am keeping them onside too.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.0 -
williamglenn said:
Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
The penny will drop for Cox eventually that the EU isn't that bothered about a deal as it expects parly to capitulate.
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“We’re into the meat of the matter now” as he heads back to London...Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.0 -
Hammond ? He'll be lucky to fill a moped with his supporters.DecrepitJohnL said:
I am green on Hammond but not pressing up till we see who will stand. He has a good story on the economy and MPs will likely want a safe pair of hands after Brexit. Javid and Hunt in the other great offices of state have come across as a bit lightweight in the last couple of months, although I am keeping them onside too.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.0 -
TIG is also, as the podcast points out, vulnerable to a classic vote squeeze: don't waste your vote because only Lab/Con can beat Con/Lab.El_Capitano said:
Only in the sense that they're an empty vessel into which sane and reasonable policies can be projected. Their "statement" is basically reheated Blairism, which is not necessarily a bad thing in itself (and certainly better than the thin gruel on offer from the two main parties right now), but not particularly an answer to the challenges of 2019._Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:0 -
They don't have to support Hammond, just vote for him against whoever else stands.TGOHF said:
Hammond ? He'll be lucky to fill a moped with his supporters.DecrepitJohnL said:
I am green on Hammond but not pressing up till we see who will stand. He has a good story on the economy and MPs will likely want a safe pair of hands after Brexit. Javid and Hunt in the other great offices of state have come across as a bit lightweight in the last couple of months, although I am keeping them onside too.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
Nevertheless he is at 65/95.TGOHF said:
Hammond ? He'll be lucky to fill a moped with his supporters.DecrepitJohnL said:
I am green on Hammond but not pressing up till we see who will stand. He has a good story on the economy and MPs will likely want a safe pair of hands after Brexit. Javid and Hunt in the other great offices of state have come across as a bit lightweight in the last couple of months, although I am keeping them onside too.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)
The two best lays for Tory leader right now are busted flush Boris (7/7.4) and remainer Rudd (17.5/19.5)0 -
Yes Parliament has completely sabotaged the negotiations.TGOHF said:williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
The penny will drop for Cox eventually that the EU isn't that bothered about a deal as it expects parly to capitulate.
Which is 100% May's fault.0 -
For each side to consider in their own HQ and with their heads before continuing talks, or to continue to discuss using phone or similar methods that negate eyeballs.williamglenn said:
“We’re into the meat of the matter now” as he heads back to London...Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.
While your negative interpretation may well be right, myopic outlooks such as yours frequently end in disaster and failure to accomplish on tenth of the potential.0 -
There's no edge to a moped. Maybe that will be more supporters than you think?TGOHF said:
Hammond ? He'll be lucky to fill a moped with his supporters.DecrepitJohnL said:
I am green on Hammond but not pressing up till we see who will stand. He has a good story on the economy and MPs will likely want a safe pair of hands after Brexit. Javid and Hunt in the other great offices of state have come across as a bit lightweight in the last couple of months, although I am keeping them onside too.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)
https://goo.gl/images/tihUWG0 -
Hammond will get the blame for the lack of No Deal preparations.DecrepitJohnL said:
I am green on Hammond but not pressing up till we see who will stand. He has a good story on the economy and MPs will likely want a safe pair of hands after Brexit. Javid and Hunt in the other great offices of state have come across as a bit lightweight in the last couple of months, although I am keeping them onside too.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
Yes it's rather sad that a politician being professional, honest and unspun comes across as so unusual.philiph said:
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.0 -
Well indeed. Not only that but Barnier lacks the authority to agree a compromise. If progress is made then it will need to be in stages. Barnier takes us seriously, goes to the EU27 with a new proposal, then comes back and says he can agree that proposal. Not saying that's going to happen (it would have were it not for Parliament) but its possible.philiph said:
For each side to consider in their own HQ and with their heads before continuing talks, or to continue to discuss using phone or similar methods that negate eyeballs.williamglenn said:
“We’re into the meat of the matter now” as he heads back to London...Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.
While your negative interpretation may well be right, myopic outlooks such as yours frequently end in disaster and failure to accomplish on tenth of the potential.0 -
He has been sent here by the late 1950s to save us from No Deal!Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it's rather sad that a politician being professional, honest and unspun comes across as so unusual.philiph said:
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.0 -
Stephen Law did an okay job at debunking the idea that Labour has a particular problem with anti-semitism https://www.patreon.com/posts/my-short-intro-24853919 but the narrative is too strongly set now. I dare say that some in Labour have weaponised this issue in order to oust Corbyn._Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:0 -
LOL!rottenborough said:
He has been sent here by the late 1950s to save us from No Deal!Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it's rather sad that a politician being professional, honest and unspun comes across as so unusual.philiph said:
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.
It takes a man from the 1950s to stop us going back to the 1950s?0 -
..
0 -
It's not Labour that has an issue with antisemitism per se. It is Corbyn's Labour and Corbynistas that do.Dadge said:
Stephen Law did an okay job at debunking the idea that Labour has a particular problem with anti-semitism https://www.patreon.com/posts/my-short-intro-24853919 but the narrative is too strongly set now. I dare say that some in Labour have weaponised this issue in order to oust Corbyn._Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
And it's only weaponised in the sense that people object to Corbynistas antisemitism.0 -
Hammond (or rather the Treasury) will be shown to have been broadly right all along about the effects of Brexit. In any case, I expect most backbenchers (the electorate in this case) will be looking for a quiet life after the Sturm und Drang of Brexit.MarqueeMark said:
Hammond will get the blame for the lack of No Deal preparations.DecrepitJohnL said:
I am green on Hammond but not pressing up till we see who will stand. He has a good story on the economy and MPs will likely want a safe pair of hands after Brexit. Javid and Hunt in the other great offices of state have come across as a bit lightweight in the last couple of months, although I am keeping them onside too.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
2018 ended much as it began, with May and Corbyn in place and the Brexit train rumbling on, so even though one must rationally assume that there will be political fireworks this year, you have to be quite brave to bet on any changes. In fact I wonder what the odds would be on correctly predicting the outcome of the four big questions as at 31 Dec 2019? ie. the two party leaders, the state of the parties and the state of Brexit.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
In that case you'd imagine folk saying the UK has fucked up even worse than Suez would have a certain pungency for him.rottenborough said:
He has been sent here by the late 1950s to save us from No Deal!Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it's rather sad that a politician being professional, honest and unspun comes across as so unusual.philiph said:
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.
Perhaps he'll just cut his losses and head back with the last 60 years of Cheltenham results.0 -
Yes, I agree, Back to the Future worked quite well, so where is the problem?rottenborough said:
He has been sent here by the late 1950s to save us from No Deal!Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it's rather sad that a politician being professional, honest and unspun comes across as so unusual.philiph said:
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.
I can't dredge any other meaning or relevance from your contribution, did I get the correct interpretation?0 -
It is all but impossible now for the Treasury to be shown to be broadly right all along about the effects of Brexit.DecrepitJohnL said:
Hammond (or rather the Treasury) will be shown to have been broadly right all along about the effects of Brexit. In any case, I expect most backbenchers (the electorate in this case) will be looking for a quiet life after the Sturm und Drang of Brexit.
Given the supposed massive hike in unemployment that was supposed to happen following a vote, has instead been met with record employment figures, in order to get to the Treasury being right we would now need not just a hike in unemployment but a double hike essentially to reverse the employment growth (which would just get us to the status quo ante of Brexit) combined with the initial supposed hike.0 -
It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me0 -
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.0 -
Thanks for flagging. Very interesting guest (although still Keiran asks questions that are too rambling for my taste).DecrepitJohnL said:The podcast is worth a listen this week btw.
0 -
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1950s is before his time; he is a child of the 60s.rottenborough said:
He has been sent here by the late 1950s to save us from No Deal!Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it's rather sad that a politician being professional, honest and unspun comes across as so unusual.philiph said:
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.
0 -
His name was present but not ………..?Scott_P said:0 -
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does not mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude0 -
Yes we should. Opfimistic sign if Barnier is downbeat. Maybe he will start taking this seriously then. An upbeat Barnier has never worked for us.Scott_P said:0 -
When May goes it will surely be over a summer recess as the members will need to have their say this time. For her to go this summer, the deal needs to go through parliament. If there is a Brexit delay then she will stay on. I can't see Corbyn going as long as the members and the unions back himDadge said:
2018 ended much as it began, with May and Corbyn in place and the Brexit train rumbling on, so even though one must rationally assume that there will be political fireworks this year, you have to be quite brave to bet on any changes. In fact I wonder what the odds would be on correctly predicting the outcome of the four big questions as at 31 Dec 2019? ie. the two party leaders, the state of the parties and the state of Brexit.MarqueeMark said:
I think that is now inevitable.DecrepitJohnL said:
The podcast envisages May standing down (and therefore a new prime minister) this year.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That may be the case at some point but they need to register as a party and produce domestic policies that appeal to many who are tired and dispirited with the hard right and left in our main parties_Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
I am weary of the conflict in politics and the absolute incompetence of our mps. No deal brexit has to be stopped and my hope is that if TM deal falls a customs union becomes the HOC pathway out of this nightmare, thereby leaving the EU, but taking the least damaging option, though remaining is the best option
A lot will depend on TM willingness to break her red lines and due to her stubborn nature she may not, but of course if ERG lose her deal she will no doubt feel no loyality to them
She is wrong on knife crime and police numbers and is wrong to prevent police pay rises. However, today's Sky poll has the conservatives ahead of labour over dealing with knife crime by 31%/21%
She heads a government with a lost mandate and cannot even pass day to day legislation. This cannot continue and I hope she decides to stand down shortly, hands over to a new successor, and the new PM seeks a mandate to govern at the time before TIG become established and Corbyn is on the ropes over anti semitism and his communist cabal
And a sizeable chunk of the current Cabinet can say goodbye to their careers too. (That initially said "carers". Which might be harsh. Discuss. Use both sides of the paper....)0 -
The little Englanders are those fearties who want to cling to nurse for fear of worse.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does not mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude
0 -
Quite right.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does nor mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude
It isn't helped by nobody having the ability to convince others, or often themselves of the true outcome of various options.
According The Times Mr Carney has had a recalculation or recalibration.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-damage-would-be-less-than-we-feared-says-mark-carney-60pg3snrh0 -
That is interesting and I can accept this evidence as true: 'antisemitism is no more prevalent on the left than in the general population'Dadge said:
Stephen Law did an okay job at debunking the idea that Labour has a particular problem with anti-semitism https://www.patreon.com/posts/my-short-intro-24853919 but the narrative is too strongly set now. I dare say that some in Labour have weaponised this issue in order to oust Corbyn._Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
However, that still leaves Labour with a problem, which is that they are not dealing with the incidences of anti-semitism that you would expect to see with such a large membership. They are tolerating the anti-semitism, rather than expelling the minority of anti-semites. It didn't surprise me that with such a large growth in membership numbers that some of those new members would be wrong'uns - but surely they could be identified and expelled?0 -
I wonder if anyone can think of a Scottish equivalent?geoffw said:
The little Englanders are those fearties who want to cling to nurse for fear of worse.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does not mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude0 -
The debate in the referendum was control versus economic stability. Unless we take control this was all for naught.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does not mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude0 -
If it was for naught why leavePhilip_Thompson said:
The debate in the referendum was control versus economic stability. Unless we take control this was all for naught.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does not mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude0 -
Ha!philiph said:
Quite right.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does nor mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude
It isn't helped by nobody having the ability to convince others, or often themselves of the true outcome of various options.
According The Times Mr Carney has had a recalculation or recalibration.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-deal-damage-would-be-less-than-we-feared-says-mark-carney-60pg3snrh
0 -
Precisely.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If it was for naught why leavePhilip_Thompson said:
The debate in the referendum was control versus economic stability. Unless we take control this was all for naught.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The referendum required us to leave the EU. TM deal and BINO both do thatPhilip_Thompson said:
BINO, BINO or Remain. And you are a Remainer. No wonder they're ok with you?Big_G_NorthWales said:It is looking increasingly likely it is TM original deal, customs union or remain
All of which or OK by me
Who needs to win a referendum when you can just ignore its results if you don't like it.
Because they are not pure economic armageddon demanded by ERG does not mean they do not honour the referendum
ERG can vote for the deal. Their choice and if not, to be honest I care more about our Country's economic strength and good will among nations, than some little englander attitude0 -
Is there a write-up of when what votes are scheduled with Brexit? The press were getting all excited about them before and there was loads of stuff about the next steps but now we're on Meaningful Vote Season 8 or whatever it seems like everyone's losing the will to live, let alone write about the votes.0
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So am I, but he reminds me of my uncles.geoffw said:
1950s is before his time; he is a child of the 60s.rottenborough said:
He has been sent here by the late 1950s to save us from No Deal!Philip_Thompson said:
Yes it's rather sad that a politician being professional, honest and unspun comes across as so unusual.philiph said:
Seems professional honest and unspun response to questions.Philip_Thompson said:
Cox sounds like he is being an honest broker. More than May ever was.williamglenn said:Cox sounds rattled.
https://twitter.com/sophiacmcbride/status/1103237559356977152?s=21
No point dressing mutton up as lamb, everyone sees through it instantly.
0 -
The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.0 -
The FT have one. You might have to Google for the article to view the link without a subscription. I used "Brexit votes march" as my search string.edmundintokyo said:Is there a write-up of when what votes are scheduled with Brexit? The press were getting all excited about them before and there was loads of stuff about the next steps but now we're on Meaningful Vote Season 8 or whatever it seems like everyone's losing the will to live, let alone write about the votes.
https://www.ft.com/content/64e7f218-4ad4-11e7-919a-1e14ce4af89b
Edit: It looks like it's quite comprehensive. Maybe the FT deserve my money.0 -
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?0 -
If it were true that the Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament were doing that, why did we not go for a Norway-style Brexit from the beginning? Why announce we're leaving the single market and customs union at a time when those choices were still controversial?Philip_Thompson said:While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
0 -
The ERG types refuse to believe reality. It is as simple as that.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
0 -
0
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Although Cameron did threaten that we'd be out of SM and CU if we decided to be "quitters" and leave the EU - and people still voted leave so I think you have to say any interpretation of what leave means has to include leaving SM and CU.Nigelb said:
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?
Course if Cameron and the Remain campaign had been more opaque about what leaving means then the government might have been able to pivot to something like Norway but "The Posh Boys" decided to lay it all on the line... And still lost!0 -
Because May refused to make a decision and tried to be all things to all people at the start.williamglenn said:
If it were true that the Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament were doing that, why did we not go for a Norway-style Brexit from the beginning? Why announce we're leaving the single market and customs union at a time when those choices were still controversial?Philip_Thompson said:While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
0 -
The Department for International Trade has been using their budget wisely.
https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/11032564811122237450 -
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Precisely. Makes all the crocodile tears now about the dangers of leaving the customs union rather unconvincing. We already had this argument!GIN1138 said:
Although Cameron did threaten that we'd be out of SM and CU if we decided to be "quitters" and leave the EU - and people still voted leave so I think you have to say any interpretation of what leave means has to include leaving SM and CU.Nigelb said:
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?
Course if Cameron and the Remain campaign had been more opaque about what leaving means then the government might have been able to pivot to something like Norway but "The Posh Boys" decided to lay it all on the line... And still lost!0 -
This isn't true. If Theresa May were able to see this through to its conclusion we'd end up with a relationship with the EU that gave the UK control over immigration and trade policy, and only made contributions for those multilateral projects we wanted to be part of - e.g. Science but not Agriculture.Philip_Thompson said:While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
0 -
Blimey, didn't realise she was putting in public appearances so close to her due date.Scott_P said:0 -
If that were the case I'd have no objection whatsoever.OblitusSumMe said:
This isn't true. If Theresa May were able to see this through to its conclusion we'd end up with a relationship with the EU that gave the UK control over immigration and trade policy, and only made contributions for those multilateral projects we wanted to be part of - e.g. Science but not Agriculture.Philip_Thompson said:While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
The backstop means we would have no control over trade policy. You can not have control while in the backstop, that is the entire point of it!0 -
Right, but the Leave campaign called warnings like that Project Fear at the time, so which is true?GIN1138 said:
Although Cameron did threaten that we'd be out of SM and CU if we decided to be "quitters" and leave the EU - and people still voted leave so I think you have to say any interpretation of what leave means has to include leaving SM and CU.Nigelb said:
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?
Course if Cameron and the Remain campaign had been more opaque about what leaving means then the government might have been able to pivot to something like Norway but "The Posh Boys" decided to lay it all on the line... And still lost!
Was it Project Fear and people voted Leave because they didn't believe the warnings, or did it define the vote and people accepted that is what would happen?0 -
“There was a clear mandate from the court that King Canute hold back the waves that he has simply refused to carry out.”rottenborough said:
The ERG types refuse to believe reality. It is as simple as that.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.0 -
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Glasgow Uni partially evacuated - suspicious package in the mailroom. Hope they've put a return address on like yesterday.0
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How? In the past there could be a certain "rough justice" element but now there has to be due process and that cuts both ways. Look at Mishcon de Reya and Margaret Hodge, for instance. A rule against belonging to a rival party is quite simple to administer, given the evidence, but the process could easily tie itself in knots trying to decide if this tweet or that Facebook post was antisemitic (or Islamophobic or misogynistic or whatever) and then if it was, did it form part of a pattern of behaviour that crossed some threshold or other?OblitusSumMe said:
That is interesting and I can accept this evidence as true: 'antisemitism is no more prevalent on the left than in the general population'Dadge said:
Stephen Law did an okay job at debunking the idea that Labour has a particular problem with anti-semitism https://www.patreon.com/posts/my-short-intro-24853919 but the narrative is too strongly set now. I dare say that some in Labour have weaponised this issue in order to oust Corbyn._Anazina_ said:
The Tiggers are the only option these days for anyone sane and reasonable.HYUFD said:
However, that still leaves Labour with a problem, which is that they are not dealing with the incidences of anti-semitism that you would expect to see with such a large membership. They are tolerating the anti-semitism, rather than expelling the minority of anti-semites. It didn't surprise me that with such a large growth in membership numbers that some of those new members would be wrong'uns - but surely they could be identified and expelled?
The business world's preferred solution has long been the payoff, with or without an NDA.0 -
Two things.
1 - the real issue from both May and Corbyn is that they prioritised party unity above all else. They tried to take positions that suited everyone in their party to some extent to avoid resignations, defections and rebellions. It's just not physically possible to do that forever - at some point you have to piss off at least one section of your party. That's why May has to whip the votes - at some point she just has to accept that if she wants to have a policy on it she cannot take everyone in her party with her. That's the choice- free vote equals (relative) unity but no real policy, whipped vote equals potentially strong disunity but standing for something.
2 - we've already heard from figures in the EU that even if May passed MV2 next week it is already too late to avoid having to make a "technical" extension anyway to get everything ratified fully etc.
So the secondary question in that is if we do extend Article 50 how quickly do we need to sort things out to avoid having to extend further anyway? Where's the invisible line in the sand that we need to be ahead of? In other words there's no use deliberately extending for a short period only if we do exactly the same thing we already have and run up to the deadline of the extension and still have to have a "technical" extension anyway to dot all the i's and cross all the t's of a finally passed MV.0 -
That's categorically not true!OblitusSumMe said:
Right, but the Leave campaign called warnings like that Project Fear at the time, so which is true?GIN1138 said:
Although Cameron did threaten that we'd be out of SM and CU if we decided to be "quitters" and leave the EU - and people still voted leave so I think you have to say any interpretation of what leave means has to include leaving SM and CU.Nigelb said:
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?
Course if Cameron and the Remain campaign had been more opaque about what leaving means then the government might have been able to pivot to something like Norway but "The Posh Boys" decided to lay it all on the line... And still lost!
Was it Project Fear and people voted Leave because they didn't believe the warnings, or did it define the vote and people accepted that is what would happen?
The Leave campaign agreed that leaving meant leaving the SM and CU. That was the whole point of leaving.they called the projected consequences of leaving the SM and CU Project Fear and still do.0 -
We could have a short extension to test the waters, followed immediately by a longer extension to kick it into the long grass.solarflare said:So the secondary question in that is if we do extend Article 50 how quickly do we need to sort things out to avoid having to extend further anyway? Where's the invisible line in the sand that we need to be ahead of? In other words there's no use deliberately extending for a short period only if we do exactly the same thing we already have and run up to the deadline of the extension and still have to have a "technical" extension anyway to dot all the i's and cross all the t's of a finally passed MV.
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I have no idea where people get this idea that Jezza is an anti-semite enabler...Scott_P said:0 -
This is why Theresa May should not have triggered Article 50 before a commission to determine what Brexit meant and a plausible path to get there. She should now revoke Article 50 or request a long extension to allow such a commission.solarflare said:Two things.
1 - the real issue from both May and Corbyn is that they prioritised party unity above all else. They tried to take positions that suited everyone in their party to some extent to avoid resignations, defections and rebellions. It's just not physically possible to do that forever - at some point you have to piss off at least one section of your party. That's why May has to whip the votes - at some point she just has to accept that if she wants to have a policy on it she cannot take everyone in her party with her. That's the choice- free vote equals (relative) unity but no real policy, whipped vote equals potentially strong disunity but standing for something.
2 - we've already heard from figures in the EU that even if May passed MV2 next week it is already too late to avoid having to make a "technical" extension anyway to get everything ratified fully etc.
So the secondary question in that is if we do extend Article 50 how quickly do we need to sort things out to avoid having to extend further anyway? Where's the invisible line in the sand that we need to be ahead of? In other words there's no use deliberately extending for a short period only if we do exactly the same thing we already have and run up to the deadline of the extension and still have to have a "technical" extension anyway to dot all the i's and cross all the t's of a finally passed MV.
The trouble is, Theresa May is all about running down the clock to force through an outcome it is not certain that even she wants, but has become committed to. Any short extension would be solely so she could persuade (or almost certainly fail to persuade) her opponents in Parliament. We'd be right back here, three months later.0 -
How do you explain the fact that in October 2016, the Sun was characterising being pushed out of the single market as a scare story?Philip_Thompson said:
That's categorically not true!OblitusSumMe said:
Right, but the Leave campaign called warnings like that Project Fear at the time, so which is true?GIN1138 said:
Although Cameron did threaten that we'd be out of SM and CU if we decided to be "quitters" and leave the EU - and people still voted leave so I think you have to say any interpretation of what leave means has to include leaving SM and CU.Nigelb said:
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?
Course if Cameron and the Remain campaign had been more opaque about what leaving means then the government might have been able to pivot to something like Norway but "The Posh Boys" decided to lay it all on the line... And still lost!
Was it Project Fear and people voted Leave because they didn't believe the warnings, or did it define the vote and people accepted that is what would happen?
The Leave campaign agreed that leaving meant leaving the SM and CU. That was the whole point of leaving.they called the projected consequences of leaving the SM and CU Project Fear and still do.
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Why is Corbyn wearing a big red label on his jacket. Is it really professional0
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The Sun is an ignorant and incompetent rag.williamglenn said:
How do you explain the fact that in October 2016, the Sun was characterising being pushed out of the single market as a scare story?Philip_Thompson said:
That's categorically not true!OblitusSumMe said:
Right, but the Leave campaign called warnings like that Project Fear at the time, so which is true?GIN1138 said:
Although Cameron did threaten that we'd be out of SM and CU if we decided to be "quitters" and leave the EU - and people still voted leave so I think you have to say any interpretation of what leave means has to include leaving SM and CU.Nigelb said:
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?
Course if Cameron and the Remain campaign had been more opaque about what leaving means then the government might have been able to pivot to something like Norway but "The Posh Boys" decided to lay it all on the line... And still lost!
Was it Project Fear and people voted Leave because they didn't believe the warnings, or did it define the vote and people accepted that is what would happen?
The Leave campaign agreed that leaving meant leaving the SM and CU. That was the whole point of leaving.they called the projected consequences of leaving the SM and CU Project Fear and still do.0 -
PMQ's really is a load of old shit, isn't it.0
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The more important thing we learn from that is not Corbyn’s views on Israel but that he is prepared to lie. Now you can understand why Labour MPs now are taping their conversations with him.FrancisUrquhart said:
I have no idea where people get this idea that Jezza is an anti-semite enabler...Scott_P said:0 -
I wouldn't express it that way but your sentiment is spot onsolarflare said:PMQ's really is a load of old shit, isn't it.
Complete turn off
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Has Honda written on it, he's trolling the Tories... standing up for businessBig_G_NorthWales said:Why is Corbyn wearing a big red label on his jacket. Is it really professional
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https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1103269252637827075?s=21Philip_Thompson said:
The Sun is an ignorant and incompetent rag.williamglenn said:
How do you explain the fact that in October 2016, the Sun was characterising being pushed out of the single market as a scare story?Philip_Thompson said:
That's categorically not true!OblitusSumMe said:
Right, but the Leave campaign called warnings like that Project Fear at the time, so which is true?GIN1138 said:
Although Cameron did threaten that we'd be out of SM and CU if we decided to be "quitters" and leave the EU - and people still voted leave so I think you have to say any interpretation of what leave means has to include leaving SM and CU.Nigelb said:
The vote was on whether to leave the EU.Philip_Thompson said:The strangest thing about this whole long running saga seems to be the lack of people's ability to understand others despite them being open and clear about what they want.
I'll put my hand up that I am part of that. I've been waiting for the EU to fold on the backstop despite them being open and clear they don't want to.
While in 2016 we debated taking control versus economic stability and control won. Since then our Remainer PM and Remainer Parliament have sought to put economic stability first and do not understand why Leavers who wanted to take control in 2016 are willing to jeopardise our economic stability to take control.
As BigG points out, there are numerous interpretations of that other than yours - and championed by some leavers on here well before the vote.
You interpretation is yours, not that of the entire electorate. Plenty share your views, of course, but they do not constitute a majority.
And if you are utterly determined that they do, then why not put it to the test ?
Course if Cameron and the Remain campaign had been more opaque about what leaving means then the government might have been able to pivot to something like Norway but "The Posh Boys" decided to lay it all on the line... And still lost!
Was it Project Fear and people voted Leave because they didn't believe the warnings, or did it define the vote and people accepted that is what would happen?
The Leave campaign agreed that leaving meant leaving the SM and CU. That was the whole point of leaving.they called the projected consequences of leaving the SM and CU Project Fear and still do.0 -
Anybody who has followed him closely knows this already...all the honest magic grandpa shtick is just that.Cyclefree said:
The more important thing we learn from that is not Corbyn’s views on Israel but that he is prepared to lie. Now you can understand why Labour MPs now are taping their conversations with him.FrancisUrquhart said:
I have no idea where people get this idea that Jezza is an anti-semite enabler...Scott_P said:0 -
One thing that is being overlooked in regards rise in violent crime. I think the London riots was a pivotal point.
The police response was utterly utterly inadequate. The gangs realized that they had absolutely nothing to fear from the plod, they were poorly organized, poorly prepared and overall just f##king useless. On the other hand, it is well reported that the gangs organized and mobilized quickly, and for several days had free reign to commit crime.
Despite a few high profile cases, most people involved were never caught or punished.
These kids are now the ones running the gangs. If they had zero fear of the police were there were more of them, they are going to give even less of a crap now or the likely potential punishment even if they were caught.0 -
Sadly, this is true. One underemarked aspect of human behaviour is the paralysis that overcomes the powerful when a bad thing is oncoming. They have the power to deflect events but do not. World War One happened because the government's couldn't be arsed to pull away. Cameron could have decided to delay the referendum but did not. We were bloody lucky to have JFK and RFK in the White House in 1963 and Stanislav Petrov in 1983. May could extend, revoke, or go full no-deal. But that requires her to take a decision and she can't. So shes asleep at the wheel and nobody will stop her.DecrepitJohnL said:
This is why Theresa May should not have triggered Article 50 before a commission to determine what Brexit meant and a plausible path to get there. She should now revoke Article 50 or request a long extension to allow such a commission....solarflare said:Two things.
1 - the real issue from both May and Corbyn is that they prioritised party unity above all else. They tried to take positions that suited everyone in their party to some extent to avoid resignations, defections and rebellions. It's just not physically possible to do that forever - at some point you have to piss off at least one section of your party. That's why May has to whip the votes - at some point she just has to accept that if she wants to have a policy on it she cannot take everyone in her party with her. That's the choice- free vote equals (relative) unity but no real policy, whipped vote equals potentially strong disunity but standing for something.
2 - we've already heard from figures in the EU that even if May passed MV2 next week it is already too late to avoid having to make a "technical" extension anyway to get everything ratified fully etc.
So the secondary question in that is if we do extend Article 50 how quickly do we need to sort things out to avoid having to extend further anyway? Where's the invisible line in the sand that we need to be ahead of? In other words there's no use deliberately extending for a short period only if we do exactly the same thing we already have and run up to the deadline of the extension and still have to have a "technical" extension anyway to dot all the i's and cross all the t's of a finally passed MV.
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I doubt there is a causal link. The kids stabbing people now were in nappies then.FrancisUrquhart said:One thing that is being overlooked in regards rise in violent crime. I think the London riots was a pivotal point.
The police response was utterly utterly inadequate. The gangs realized that they had absolutely nothing to fear from the plod, they were poorly organized, poorly prepared and overall just f##king useless. On the other hand, it is well reported that the gangs organized and mobilized quickly, and for several days had free reign to commit crime.
Despite a few high profile cases, most people involved were never caught or punished.
These kids are now the ones running the gangs. If they had zero fear of the police were there were more of them, they are going to give even less of a crap now or the likely potential punishment even if they were caught.
ETA: damn; new thread.0
