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Are you calibrated down to picoseconds?FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.0 -
Why a Nazi tank rather than an Allied one?Theuniondivvie said:
My nerdy sense caught you.viewcode said:
[ Response deleted as excessively nerdy]Anorak said:
Only if you use it to buy a tank.malcolmg said:
Fools and their money are easy parted. If anyone wishes to send me their life savings I promise to look after them very well.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
"Mystery as Quadriga crypto-cash goes missing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47454528
One of my (many) guilty pleasures is Combat Dealers, I believe they're aiming to restore or reconstruct a Jagdpanther, of which I wholly approve.0 -
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.0 -
So Hilary Clinton is now basically Tony Blair in a skirt?Sandpit said:
So which unlucky candidate is going to be cursed by her support?edmundintokyo said:OT Hillary not running:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/us/politics/hillary-clinton-not-running.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3yNOkbW9sk2p2KV-GmtBcqYlCVzEGuxj0N6ANSwd36Yp-F-5AYP1_Sdr4
Also not planning to stfu and retire to a shed but you can't have everything.0 -
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
The time when Labour is *not* in the midst of another antisemitism scandal is only limited by the uncertainty principle.MarqueeMark said:
Are you calibrated down to picoseconds?FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
It is the blind faith that staying in the EU means everything will be hunky dory, I struggle with. Whilst we have been in the EU Rover collapsed, Peugeot closed Ryton, Ford closed Hailewood, Ford closed Southampton, JLR made the decision to invest in Slovakia. The EU car makers are already moving to North Africa from the EU.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
There is a reason why the current and previous manufacturing regions of the UK voted leave.
What we need is a Government focused on making the UK the best place to manufacture after brexit, if the population want manufacturing jobs. Unfortunately the bloke with the responsibility for this seems to spend his time getting businesses to issues press statements about how bad the UK is for business and that they are worried that the Government, of which he is a part, can not even manage a simple thing like getting a customs system to work at the ports.0 -
Miranda?Anorak said:
So Hilary Clinton is now basically Tony Blair in a skirt?Sandpit said:
So which unlucky candidate is going to be cursed by her support?edmundintokyo said:OT Hillary not running:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/us/politics/hillary-clinton-not-running.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR3yNOkbW9sk2p2KV-GmtBcqYlCVzEGuxj0N6ANSwd36Yp-F-5AYP1_Sdr4
Also not planning to stfu and retire to a shed but you can't have everything.0 -
Isn't the obsession with Banks personal on the part of a fair few media folk?oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
I think they are still pissed off with all that nonsense to-ing and fro-ing over his "dramatic" donation to UKIP that had them spend a day outside of London only to be let down.0 -
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Good afternoon, everyone.
Bitter wind blowing.0 -
Should we no deal Brexit, your request would no doubt be amply fulfilled.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:0 -
And still the Brexiters will keep their heads in the sand.Scott_P said:0 -
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.0 -
Nearly all firms have their challenges so it is easy to say 'it wasn't Brexit it was x, y and z'. Maybe if it was just x y and z it wouldn't go under. It is those near the edge that are going to go. Others will do worse, but we won't be aware of the impact of Brexit because they won't collapse so won't be on the news. With the exception of those for whom the impact is tremendous all those that go will have other contributing reasons for people to blame instead of BrexitEndillion said:
Well, yes, but this does work both ways. Firms going bust because of bad management or other economic conditions and blaming Brexit also can't be taken at face value.TOPPING said:
WE'VE GOT HIM. CONGRATULATIONS!!!Brom said:
It's not though is it and you know it. Even when the arch Europhiles were jerking off about Nissan cutting jobs they soon had to backtrack when Nissan publicly said Brexit was not involved. Almost all Project Fear and Sky News/Guardian's scare stories revolve around 'might' or 'could' rather than being based upon actual events. It's all a bit desperate, and I say that as someone who completely understands many prominent leave supporters also have failed to deliver on their promises.Nigel_Foremain said:
Yawn!! It is Project Realism now. The Fear piece is left to you guys; the Fear of the Foreigner, a sick exploitation which has been amply used by Farage, and continues to be used by thickos like Mark Francois. It is a very old and sinister tactic and it will do no one any good longer term, except exploitative politicians and journalists who will continue to stir up the gullible.Brom said:
Love it, Sky News and The Guardian with something MAY happen IF something unlikely happens. Project Fear doesn't even deal in facts, it just hopes for the worst.Nigel_Foremain said:
A no deal Brexit will simply mean they do it quickly. With a deal-Brexit they will have longer to achieve the transition.Scott_P said:
We've found the person who takes the statement of company management over an extremely sensitive political issue in their host country...AT FACE VALUE.0 -
I think the EU FTA is small part of the problem but Brexit causing disruption to the supply chain, potentially putting tariffs on parts from the EU and then selling the cars back into the EU with tariffs is the problem. I would have to look at the productivity figures for the Turkey plant, the cost profile and profitability per unit to decide on why they closed that. You would think a low cost base like Turkey would stay open!RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.0 -
Where we stand on Citizen's rights:
A lot of people in the UK Parliament – both Brexit and non-Brexit supporters – have argued that more should be done to give greater certainty to citizens. The joint Brexit lead in the Dutch Parliament, Pieter Omtzigt, also called on the EU and the UK to safeguard citizens' rights.
On 27 February, the Government accepted an amendment by Conservative MP Alberto Costa, which proposes that the UK and EU commit to part two of the Withdrawal Agreement on citizens’ rights in the case of no deal. However, the EU has insisted throughout that it will not do a mini-deal as this is an issue for member states. That was why the Prime Minister suggested that it would be impossible for the UK to deliver on this.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/british-citizens-europe-after-brexit
Short version - UK more generous than most EU countries - and better prepared (if legislation counts as 'preparation' of course.....but then again I'm not sure our Home Office is uniquely dysfunctional....)0 -
Perhaps the Brexiteer hopes and dreams will only be realised when we return to a truly agrarian society, replete with rickets, scurvy, and weevils in the bread.Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.0 -
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.0 -
Because they look better, performed better and are far rarer. Also they had a much better naming policy; imagine the sniggering if the Heer had come up with the Pzkfw IX Hitler.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why a Nazi tank rather than an Allied one?Theuniondivvie said:
My nerdy sense caught you.viewcode said:
[ Response deleted as excessively nerdy]Anorak said:
Only if you use it to buy a tank.malcolmg said:
Fools and their money are easy parted. If anyone wishes to send me their life savings I promise to look after them very well.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
"Mystery as Quadriga crypto-cash goes missing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47454528
One of my (many) guilty pleasures is Combat Dealers, I believe they're aiming to restore or reconstruct a Jagdpanther, of which I wholly approve.0 -
How on earth of could it be a good thing? Singapore, which is held up as an example by people with these views is getting a new car industry supplied by Brexit supporting James Dyson! They cite Singapore's economic model as one that the UK should follow but the only thing it seems to be doing is swallowing up our industry!Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
As an aside I will never forget seeing Patrick Minford giving a lecture at Manchester Free Trade Hall and mid speech someone throw a paper aeroplane that hit the end of his nose! I thought it was incredibly rude to do that to someone giving a lecture.
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Interestingly weevils improve the calorific mix of bread... https://southcoastsun.co.za/113288/ate-weevils-will-okay/Anorak said:
Perhaps the Brexiteer hopes and dreams will only be realised when we return to a truly agrarian society, replete with rickets, scurvy, and weevils in the bread.Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
I'm reluctantly concluding a second referendum might be needed too though.0 -
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
The main problem Honda had was terrible sales in the EU. Honda sell 2mill cars in USA, 2 mill in Asia and they sold about 150K in Europe. They have put their investment money in the markets where they have volumeThe_Taxman said:
I think the EU FTA is small part of the problem but Brexit causing disruption to the supply chain, potentially putting tariffs on parts from the EU and then selling the cars back into the EU with tariffs is the problem. I would have to look at the productivity figures for the Turkey plant, the cost profile and profitability per unit to decide on why they closed that. You would think a low cost base like Turkey would stay open!RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
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At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.0 -
Have you and Dan ever been seen in the same room?Scott_P said:0 -
According to Minford’s naive and purist worldview, Britain’s auto industry - protected behind trade barriers - is an inefficient use of resource, and really a cost to consumers. Getting rid of auto manufacturing allows us to use the workers in more productive ways and allows consumer spending to go further.The_Taxman said:
How on earth of could it be a good thing? Singapore, which is held up as an example by people with these views is getting a new car industry supplied by Brexit supporting James Dyson! They cite Singapore's economic model as one that the UK should follow but the only thing it seems to be doing is swallowing up our industry!Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
As an aside I will never forget seeing Patrick Minford giving a lecture at Manchester Free Trade Hall and mid speech someone throw a paper aeroplane that hit the end of his nose! I thought it was incredibly rude to do that to someone giving a lecture.0 -
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Is that decision because or in spite of weevils? Anyway, weevils in the bread are just part of Project Fear. Post Brexit we will only have British bread - proper food, none of these froggie baguette EU imperialistic tit-bits!Pulpstar said:
Interestingly weevils improve the calorific mix of bread... https://southcoastsun.co.za/113288/ate-weevils-will-okay/Anorak said:
Perhaps the Brexiteer hopes and dreams will only be realised when we return to a truly agrarian society, replete with rickets, scurvy, and weevils in the bread.Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
I'm reluctantly concluding a second referendum might be needed too though.0 -
Did some just grab him by the balls?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.0 -
I think he was just giving a statutory warning of what he is about to do....FrancisUrquhart said:
Did some just grab him by the balls?CarlottaVance said:
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CarlottaVance said:
Where we stand on Citizen's rights:
A lot of people in the UK Parliament – both Brexit and non-Brexit supporters – have argued that more should be done to give greater certainty to citizens. The joint Brexit lead in the Dutch Parliament, Pieter Omtzigt, also called on the EU and the UK to safeguard citizens' rights.
On 27 February, the Government accepted an amendment by Conservative MP Alberto Costa, which proposes that the UK and EU commit to part two of the Withdrawal Agreement on citizens’ rights in the case of no deal. However, the EU has insisted throughout that it will not do a mini-deal as this is an issue for member states. That was why the Prime Minister suggested that it would be impossible for the UK to deliver on this.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/british-citizens-europe-after-brexit
Short version - UK more generous than most EU countries - and better prepared (if legislation counts as 'preparation' of course.....but then again I'm not sure our Home Office is uniquely dysfunctional....)
You don’t think investigations into whether he broke the rules are valid? In which case, why bother with rules at all?CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.0 -
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He's been particularly unhinged since Cohen's testimony. If the GOP gave a damn he'd already be toast.CarlottaVance said:0 -
haha, very good!FrancisUrquhart said:
Did some just grab him by the balls?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Some vegetarian weevil-substitute for me, pleaseNigel_Foremain said:
Is that decision because or in spite of weevils? Anyway, weevils in the bread are just part of Project Fear. Post Brexit we will only have British bread - proper food, none of these froggie baguette EU imperialistic tit-bits!Pulpstar said:
Interestingly weevils improve the calorific mix of bread... https://southcoastsun.co.za/113288/ate-weevils-will-okay/Anorak said:
Perhaps the Brexiteer hopes and dreams will only be realised when we return to a truly agrarian society, replete with rickets, scurvy, and weevils in the bread.Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
I'm reluctantly concluding a second referendum might be needed too though.
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It will blow open the UKs trade deficit but knowing Minford he probably will say this will not matter!Gardenwalker said:
According to Minford’s naive and purist worldview, Britain’s auto industry - protected behind trade barriers - is an inefficient use of resource, and really a cost to consumers. Getting rid of auto manufacturing allows us to use the workers in more productive ways and allows consumer spending to go further.The_Taxman said:
How on earth of could it be a good thing? Singapore, which is held up as an example by people with these views is getting a new car industry supplied by Brexit supporting James Dyson! They cite Singapore's economic model as one that the UK should follow but the only thing it seems to be doing is swallowing up our industry!Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
As an aside I will never forget seeing Patrick Minford giving a lecture at Manchester Free Trade Hall and mid speech someone throw a paper aeroplane that hit the end of his nose! I thought it was incredibly rude to do that to someone giving a lecture.0 -
Then it should be investigated by the authorities, surely?_Anazina_ said:CarlottaVance said:Where we stand on Citizen's rights:
A lot of people in the UK Parliament – both Brexit and non-Brexit supporters – have argued that more should be done to give greater certainty to citizens. The joint Brexit lead in the Dutch Parliament, Pieter Omtzigt, also called on the EU and the UK to safeguard citizens' rights.
On 27 February, the Government accepted an amendment by Conservative MP Alberto Costa, which proposes that the UK and EU commit to part two of the Withdrawal Agreement on citizens’ rights in the case of no deal. However, the EU has insisted throughout that it will not do a mini-deal as this is an issue for member states. That was why the Prime Minister suggested that it would be impossible for the UK to deliver on this.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/british-citizens-europe-after-brexit
Short version - UK more generous than most EU countries - and better prepared (if legislation counts as 'preparation' of course.....but then again I'm not sure our Home Office is uniquely dysfunctional....)
You don’t think investigations into whether he broke the rules are valid? In which case, why bother with rules at all?CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.0 -
Nurse Nurse! Carole Cadwalladr has a login!Nigel_Foremain said:
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
Indeed. 50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU. Completely within the ability of government to be controlled, but not reduced. The immigration argument is the biggest lie (and boy there have been some whoppers) of the pro-Leave lobby.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.0 -
Hopefully nothing.Scott_P said:
Have you seen the lovely paint jobs that BA are doing for the 100th anniversary.
https://twitter.com/ShannonAirport/status/1102500149354524672
https://twitter.com/HeathrowAirport/status/11021014247317585920 -
I hold no truck with the assorted loonies dressing themselves up in EU etc flags, but it's clear as day neither front bench has the competence to pull it off; and directly or indirectly it could cost me money (And I don't have much !)Nigel_Foremain said:
Is that decision because or in spite of weevils? Anyway, weevils in the bread are just part of Project Fear. Post Brexit we will only have British bread - proper food, none of these froggie baguette EU imperialistic tit-bits!Pulpstar said:
Interestingly weevils improve the calorific mix of bread... https://southcoastsun.co.za/113288/ate-weevils-will-okay/Anorak said:
Perhaps the Brexiteer hopes and dreams will only be realised when we return to a truly agrarian society, replete with rickets, scurvy, and weevils in the bread.Gardenwalker said:
To be fair, Patrick Minford - Brexit’s preferred economist - did suggest that the auto industry would close down. However he said this would be a good thing.ExiledInScotland said:
Correct. We can expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing to leave the UK anyway. International shipping is so cheap that it makes no financial sense to stay.RobD said:
But then why out of Turkey, too? Suspect the EU FTA has more to do with it. No longer need plants in the customs union.The_Taxman said:
Honda closing? They were not going to say it is because the UK has chosen this path because they still want to sell cars in the future.MarqueeMark said:
I wonder if one day we MIGHT see a Brexit Bad story where MIGHT doesn't do an almighty large amount of heavy lifting?williamglenn said:
The reason why "might" is still used is because we have not left the EU yet. Once all these jobs and industries have closed for good in a hard Brexit it will be a bit late to start thinking they were not joking.
I'm reluctantly concluding a second referendum might be needed too though.0 -
Wait, I thought Brexit was good to destroy the economy, in which case there would be no demand for immigrant labour?Nigel_Foremain said:
Indeed. 50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU. Completely within the ability of government to be controlled, but not reduced. The immigration argument is the biggest lie (and boy there have been some whoppers) of the pro-Leave lobby.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.0 -
May have changed slightly in 40 yearsoxfordsimon said:
Dieppe is a bit grotty - well it was when I was there in the early 80s...!viewcode said:
I'd be careful about pursuing that course. @Paul_Bedfordshire , formerly of this parish, actively wanted to shell DieppeSunil_Prasannan said:
Do you still hate the Germans for the Blitz??OnlyLivingBoy said:
I'm sure I've missed loads and others will have their own greatest hits to add to the list.0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, I've had a little work recently and get paid in dollars, so I'd prefer it if the pound didn't strengthen significantly.0
-
If preventing immigration is important enough to enough people then they can elect a government that will reduce immigration.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.
One of the problems British politics has had for the past several years is that we have had a government that has made a public commitment to reduce net migration to < 100,000 - but the government have not taken the necessary steps to reduce immigration (or encourage emigration) to hit this target. All the while that net immigration from outside the EU was above 100,000 they hid behind the excuse of EU Freedom of Movement for not hitting their target.
If the UK does leave the EU (and the Single Market) then any government pledging to reduce immigration will no longer find it so easy to excuse its failures in this way. This will hopefully introduce some more honesty into the debate.0 -
I assume you believe the findings of the FBI that Moscow wishes to subvert western democratic processes a conspiracy eh? Not convenient to your belief that good old Uncle Vladimir couldn't possibly want to interfere? Well I guess naivete is the by-word for most Leave supporters. How does it feel to help support the foreign policy objectives of a hostile power? How very patriotic of you!Brom said:
Nurse Nurse! Carole Cadwalladr has a login!Nigel_Foremain said:
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
-
Maybe. Or maybe this is just one more thing that over time erodes, slowly, the perception of the referendum as binding. The politically binding nature of the referendum currently remains while the majority of people believe in it. Like all laws, policies, rules, systems it only exists while people have faith. When the people stop believing in it then it ceases to have much effect. See the Western Australian Succession Referendum of 1933 or the Old Zimbabwe Dollar, neither of which were "overturned" (well, until 2005 anyway in the case of the latter) , but people just stopped believing in their value. At introduction in 1980 1 ZWD = 1.47 USD, so you could buy several houses with a million of them. By the time it was pulled in 2005, a million of them wouldn't even buy you a controlling interest in a Mars Bar. Similarly, the 2016 referendum is not an object, it is just a shared subjectivity, backed by a government with questionable competence, and this type of disclosure erodes the "shared" bit over time. Those 17.4 million votes may eventually represent as much political capital as the equivalent number of Old Zimbabwe Dollars.CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.0 -
Warren Buffett to set up new entity in Ireland to handle Berkshire Hathaway's EU insurance business.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/warren-buffett-s-berkshire-to-set-up-post-brexit-insurance-hub-in-dublin-1.38150090 -
Where did I write that?_Anazina_ said:You don’t think investigations into whether he broke the rules are valid?
I do think that a campaign that outspent its opponent by 2:1 needs a better argument than "it was the funding" to overthrow the result.
And much better arguments....
0 -
Demographic change as the UK population becomes comparatively older will mean gaps in the workforce will need to be filled. Even if an economy is in slump it can still be hard to get people to fill jobs in some sectors of the economy. It must also be remembered that for instance the minimum wage may seem like peanuts to many on this forum but to somebody in Pakistan for instance on £1 a day it will be a strong pull factor.RobD said:
Wait, I thought Brexit was good to destroy the economy, in which case there would be no demand for immigrant labour?Nigel_Foremain said:
Indeed. 50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU. Completely within the ability of government to be controlled, but not reduced. The immigration argument is the biggest lie (and boy there have been some whoppers) of the pro-Leave lobby.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.
People who continue to push the Leave line are completely divorced from the reality of how the world works and how Immigration will continue despite the protestations of some who claim mass immigration will be ended.0 -
Allied ones look crap, the Germans had the most stylish and best tanks, do a compare of a sherman v jagdpanther.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why a Nazi tank rather than an Allied one?Theuniondivvie said:
My nerdy sense caught you.viewcode said:
[ Response deleted as excessively nerdy]Anorak said:
Only if you use it to buy a tank.malcolmg said:
Fools and their money are easy parted. If anyone wishes to send me their life savings I promise to look after them very well.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
"Mystery as Quadriga crypto-cash goes missing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47454528
One of my (many) guilty pleasures is Combat Dealers, I believe they're aiming to restore or reconstruct a Jagdpanther, of which I wholly approve.0 -
Could be a good way to ensure a Tory landslide.Scott_P said:0 -
Why would they need to be "in talks"? The rules for registering are on the website.Scott_P said:0 -
A fair point Mr D, though we will always have immigrants, and the point was that many people say that the Brexit vote was a vote against immigration, nobody has really reflected that we did always have "control" over 50% of it. Economic meltdown will be one way of reducing it of course, though it may have a delayed effect!RobD said:
Wait, I thought Brexit was good to destroy the economy, in which case there would be no demand for immigrant labour?Nigel_Foremain said:
Indeed. 50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU. Completely within the ability of government to be controlled, but not reduced. The immigration argument is the biggest lie (and boy there have been some whoppers) of the pro-Leave lobby.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.0 -
My point was that militarization of people who should be working with the community - and helmets or even shared budgets is the first step in this slippery slope - results in unintended consequences.edmundintokyo said:
In Britain the voters want them "on the beat" so they're mostly going to be walking to whoever they're visiting.MTimT said:
And give them armoured cars ...edmundintokyo said:
I guess the solution is to do what the US do with funding speculative science and technology research: In their case military expenditure is politically bombproof, so they fund stuff as part of the military.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Royale, yeah, but police numbers do comfort the public, and attacking cuts is convenient for the Opposition and police (we'd be doing so much better if only the politicians would give us more money etc).
In Britain everyone wants more police, but actually stopping crime needs social workers and probation officers, so give the social workers and probation officers little helmets and make them part of the police.
I know you were not entirely serious in your suggestion of giving them helmets, but I think a better way than hiding appropriations in more 'acceptable' budget lines is to actually prove the value of the service being offered.0 -
They need to expedite the process to be ready for the European elections.OblitusSumMe said:
Why would they need to be "in talks"? The rules for registering are on the website.Scott_P said:0 -
They're great fun! One of my earliest flights was on a BEA Vanguard (when everyone dressed in their "Sunday Best" to fly....)Anorak said:
Have you seen the lovely paint jobs that BA are doing for the 100th anniversary.
https://twitter.com/ShannonAirport/status/1102500149354524672
https://twitter.com/HeathrowAirport/status/11021014247317585920 -
Does the Gov't have/enforce "points" policies for non EU migration at the moment ?0
-
The new system will be inherently fairer though. No discrimination based on country of origin.Nigel_Foremain said:
A fair point Mr D, though we will always have immigrants, and the point was that many people say that the Brexit vote was a vote against immigration, nobody has really reflected that we did always have "control" over 50% of it. Economic meltdown will be one way of reducing it of course, though it may have a delayed effect!RobD said:
Wait, I thought Brexit was good to destroy the economy, in which case there would be no demand for immigrant labour?Nigel_Foremain said:
Indeed. 50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU. Completely within the ability of government to be controlled, but not reduced. The immigration argument is the biggest lie (and boy there have been some whoppers) of the pro-Leave lobby.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.0 -
Didn't the Germans call the ones we used in N. Africa 'Tommy cookers" because they blew up so easily and escape was nigh-on impossible?malcolmg said:
Allied ones look crap, the Germans had the most stylish and best tanks, do a compare of a sherman v jagdpanther.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why a Nazi tank rather than an Allied one?Theuniondivvie said:
My nerdy sense caught you.viewcode said:
[ Response deleted as excessively nerdy]Anorak said:
Only if you use it to buy a tank.malcolmg said:
Fools and their money are easy parted. If anyone wishes to send me their life savings I promise to look after them very well.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
"Mystery as Quadriga crypto-cash goes missing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47454528
One of my (many) guilty pleasures is Combat Dealers, I believe they're aiming to restore or reconstruct a Jagdpanther, of which I wholly approve.0 -
What’s more likely is that they felt like they needed some more press. Note that it was announcement by the leader.williamglenn said:
They need to expedite the process to be ready for the European elections.OblitusSumMe said:
Why would they need to be "in talks"? The rules for registering are on the website.Scott_P said:0 -
It was never 'binding'.DougSeal said:
Maybe. Or maybe this is just one more thing that over time erodes, slowly, the perception of the referendum as binding.CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.
Political commitments before and during the campaign and GE17 (where more than 80% of votes cast were for parties promising to implement it) made it politically "binding" (or "very problematic to ignore")
0 -
Yes.Pulpstar said:Does the Gov't have/enforce "points" policies for non EU migration at the moment ?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/points-based-system-tier-20 -
Wow you are literally batshit mental. Your belief in conspiracy theories added to year distaste towards non EU immigration suggests you need to get out into the real world and talk to people. Not everything in life you disagree with is down to Putin, sometimes people just think differently to you. I really couldn't care less what Putin's views are on anything, like other Brits I'm capable of thinking for myself.Nigel_Foremain said:
I assume you believe the findings of the FBI that Moscow wishes to subvert western democratic processes a conspiracy eh? Not convenient to your belief that good old Uncle Vladimir couldn't possibly want to interfere? Well I guess naivete is the by-word for most Leave supporters. How does it feel to help support the foreign policy objectives of a hostile power? How very patriotic of you!Brom said:
Nurse Nurse! Carole Cadwalladr has a login!Nigel_Foremain said:
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
Ah, that will be the "new politics" we keep hearing all about.RobD said:
What’s more likely is that they felt like they needed some more press. Note that it was announcement by the leader.williamglenn said:
They need to expedite the process to be ready for the European elections.OblitusSumMe said:
Why would they need to be "in talks"? The rules for registering are on the website.Scott_P said:0 -
Ah, the Hugo Boss effect?malcolmg said:
Allied ones look crap, the Germans had the most stylish and best tanks, do a compare of a sherman v jagdpanther.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why a Nazi tank rather than an Allied one?Theuniondivvie said:
My nerdy sense caught you.viewcode said:
[ Response deleted as excessively nerdy]Anorak said:
Only if you use it to buy a tank.malcolmg said:
Fools and their money are easy parted. If anyone wishes to send me their life savings I promise to look after them very well.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
"Mystery as Quadriga crypto-cash goes missing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47454528
One of my (many) guilty pleasures is Combat Dealers, I believe they're aiming to restore or reconstruct a Jagdpanther, of which I wholly approve.0 -
The only way the population is coming down is with massive investment in industrial capital to replace labour.OblitusSumMe said:
If preventing immigration is important enough to enough people then they can elect a government that will reduce immigration.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.
One of the problems British politics has had for the past several years is that we have had a government that has made a public commitment to reduce net migration to < 100,000 - but the government have not taken the necessary steps to reduce immigration (or encourage emigration) to hit this target. All the while that net immigration from outside the EU was above 100,000 they hid behind the excuse of EU Freedom of Movement for not hitting their target.
If the UK does leave the EU (and the Single Market) then any government pledging to reduce immigration will no longer find it so easy to excuse its failures in this way. This will hopefully introduce some more honesty into the debate.0 -
The Panthers and Tigers have a certain style, but the average PanzerKamfwagen much less so.malcolmg said:
Allied ones look crap, the Germans had the most stylish and best tanks, do a compare of a sherman v jagdpanther.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why a Nazi tank rather than an Allied one?Theuniondivvie said:
My nerdy sense caught you.viewcode said:
[ Response deleted as excessively nerdy]Anorak said:
Only if you use it to buy a tank.malcolmg said:
Fools and their money are easy parted. If anyone wishes to send me their life savings I promise to look after them very well.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
"Mystery as Quadriga crypto-cash goes missing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47454528
One of my (many) guilty pleasures is Combat Dealers, I believe they're aiming to restore or reconstruct a Jagdpanther, of which I wholly approve.
Personally I rather enjoy the Soviet SU series, there is a fine SU 100 at the St Petersburg Artillary museum, which I took in while at the World Cup, and free of Mrs Foxy's idea of suitable sightseeing.
http://www.saint-petersburg.com/museums/artillery-museum/0 -
CarlottaVance said:
It was never 'binding'.DougSeal said:
Maybe. Or maybe this is just one more thing that over time erodes, slowly, the perception of the referendum as binding.CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.
Political commitments before and during the campaign and GE17 (where more than 80% of votes cast were for parties promising to implement it) made it politically "binding" (or "very problematic to ignore")
Yes - that why I said "perception" as binding. If it were legally binding that would make a difference to my post. But even there, laws fall away, like the Easter Act 1928.CarlottaVance said:
It was never 'binding'.DougSeal said:
Maybe. Or maybe this is just one more thing that over time erodes, slowly, the perception of the referendum as binding.CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.
Political commitments before and during the campaign and GE17 (where more than 80% of votes cast were for parties promising to implement it) made it politically "binding" (or "very problematic to ignore")0 -
BOAC = Better On A Camel?CarlottaVance said:
They're great fun! One of my earliest flights was on a BEA Vanguard (when everyone dressed in their "Sunday Best" to fly....)Anorak said:
Have you seen the lovely paint jobs that BA are doing for the 100th anniversary.
https://twitter.com/ShannonAirport/status/1102500149354524672
https://twitter.com/HeathrowAirport/status/1102101424731758592
0 -
It will continue to be based on various factors, including skill and income.RobD said:
The new system will be inherently fairer though. No discrimination based on country of origin.Nigel_Foremain said:
A fair point Mr D, though we will always have immigrants, and the point was that many people say that the Brexit vote was a vote against immigration, nobody has really reflected that we did always have "control" over 50% of it. Economic meltdown will be one way of reducing it of course, though it may have a delayed effect!RobD said:
Wait, I thought Brexit was good to destroy the economy, in which case there would be no demand for immigrant labour?Nigel_Foremain said:
Indeed. 50% of our immigration comes from outside the EU. Completely within the ability of government to be controlled, but not reduced. The immigration argument is the biggest lie (and boy there have been some whoppers) of the pro-Leave lobby.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.
There’s nothing inherently “fairer” or “unfairer” about favouring some countries over others in that equation.0 -
Because putting out a press release to say they are 'in talks' generates a few column inches which have been missing for a couple of weeks?OblitusSumMe said:
Why would they need to be "in talks"? The rules for registering are on the website.Scott_P said:0 -
You learn something new ever day here! The Western Australian Secession Referendum apparently resulted in a win for the Secessionists but not nor a means of achieving that aim. The British Parliament, still, at the time 'responsible' ruled the vote invalid. The overturning is still, according to Wikipedia, grumbled about in some parts of WA.DougSeal said:
Maybe. Or maybe this is just one more thing that over time erodes, slowly, the perception of the referendum as binding. The politically binding nature of the referendum currently remains while the majority of people believe in it. Like all laws, policies, rules, systems it only exists while people have faith. When the people stop believing in it then it ceases to have much effect. See the Western Australian Succession Referendum of 1933 or the Old Zimbabwe Dollar, neither of which were "overturned" (well, until 2005 anyway in the case of the latter) , but people just stopped believing in their value. At introduction in 1980 1 ZWD = 1.47 USD, so you could buy several houses with a million of them. By the time it was pulled in 2005, a million of them wouldn't even buy you a controlling interest in a Mars Bar. Similarly, the 2016 referendum is not an object, it is just a shared subjectivity, backed by a government with questionable competence, and this type of disclosure erodes the "shared" bit over time. Those 17.4 million votes may eventually represent as much political capital as the equivalent number of Old Zimbabwe Dollars.CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.0 -
I think that Westminster took the view that it was a matter for Canberra under the Statute of Westminster.OldKingCole said:
You learn something new ever day here! The Western Australian Secession Referendum apparently resulted in a win for the Secessionists but not nor a means of achieving that aim. The British Parliament, still, at the time 'responsible' ruled the vote invalid. The overturning is still, according to Wikipedia, grumbled about in some parts of WA.DougSeal said:
Maybe. Or maybe this is just one more thing that over time erodes, slowly, the perception of the referendum as binding. The politically binding nature of the referendum currently remains while the majority of people believe in it. Like all laws, policies, rules, systems it only exists while people have faith. When the people stop believing in it then it ceases to have much effect. See the Western Australian Succession Referendum of 1933 or the Old Zimbabwe Dollar, neither of which were "overturned" (well, until 2005 anyway in the case of the latter) , but people just stopped believing in their value. At introduction in 1980 1 ZWD = 1.47 USD, so you could buy several houses with a million of them. By the time it was pulled in 2005, a million of them wouldn't even buy you a controlling interest in a Mars Bar. Similarly, the 2016 referendum is not an object, it is just a shared subjectivity, backed by a government with questionable competence, and this type of disclosure erodes the "shared" bit over time. Those 17.4 million votes may eventually represent as much political capital as the equivalent number of Old Zimbabwe Dollars.CarlottaVance said:
Its displacement activity.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.
Despite outspending their opponents by a substantial margin (even ignoring the Government contribution) they still lost - but rather than address the arguments they focus on the money
But then they though arguments about 'money' would sway it.0 -
BOAC = Boys Overseas After Crumpet is the inhouse versionSunil_Prasannan said:
BOAC = Better On A Camel?CarlottaVance said:
They're great fun! One of my earliest flights was on a BEA Vanguard (when everyone dressed in their "Sunday Best" to fly....)Anorak said:
Have you seen the lovely paint jobs that BA are doing for the 100th anniversary.
https://twitter.com/ShannonAirport/status/1102500149354524672
https://twitter.com/HeathrowAirport/status/11021014247317585920 -
Do you think Russia interfered in the poll?Brom said:
Wow you are literally batshit mental. Your belief in conspiracy theories added to year distaste towards non EU immigration suggests you need to get out into the real world and talk to people. Not everything in life you disagree with is down to Putin, sometimes people just think differently to you. I really couldn't care less what Putin's views are on anything, like other Brits I'm capable of thinking for myself.Nigel_Foremain said:
I assume you believe the findings of the FBI that Moscow wishes to subvert western democratic processes a conspiracy eh? Not convenient to your belief that good old Uncle Vladimir couldn't possibly want to interfere? Well I guess naivete is the by-word for most Leave supporters. How does it feel to help support the foreign policy objectives of a hostile power? How very patriotic of you!Brom said:
Nurse Nurse! Carole Cadwalladr has a login!Nigel_Foremain said:
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
I am strongly anti-borders as a point of principle of maximum freedom, but is it true to say that "we will always have immigrants"?Nigel_Foremain said:
A fair point Mr D, though we will always have immigrants, and the point was that many people say that the Brexit vote was a vote against immigration, nobody has really reflected that we did always have "control" over 50% of it. Economic meltdown will be one way of reducing it of course, though it may have a delayed effect!RobD said:Wait, I thought Brexit was good to destroy the economy, in which case there would be no demand for immigrant labour?
I looked at the wikipedia statistics on net migration and there are a few Western countries that had a migration rate (for the period 2007-12) that would have been equivalent to <100,000 per year for the UK.
Some of them, such as Greece, Spain, Iceland and Ireland, are perhaps countries that were strongly affected by the Great Recession and so saw strong levels of emigration due to economic turbulence at home - not a great model to follow.
However, France and the Netherlands (and New Zealand, Japan) are also on the list at the requisite level, and the Dutch in particular seems to have been doing reasonably well economically.
I don't think you can just say to people that immigration is inevitable for economic reasons and expect them to just accept that. For one thing, it ain't necessarily so, and for the other, even if it is that won't stop people voting for it.0 -
Is everyone green on Leadsom for Leader?
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/03/leadsom-climbs-to-the-top-spot-in-our-cabinet-league-table.html
0 -
I wonder if they're discussing the use of the name "The Independent Group". "Independent" is a word with special significance on ballot papers. There will be elections with no TIG candidate, yet with a candidate standing as "Independent", which is potentially confusing.OblitusSumMe said:
Why would they need to be "in talks"? The rules for registering are on the website.Scott_P said:0 -
GARUDA = Good And Reliable Under Dutch AdministrationSunil_Prasannan said:
BOAC = Better On A Camel?CarlottaVance said:
They're great fun! One of my earliest flights was on a BEA Vanguard (when everyone dressed in their "Sunday Best" to fly....)Anorak said:
Have you seen the lovely paint jobs that BA are doing for the 100th anniversary.
https://twitter.com/ShannonAirport/status/1102500149354524672
https://twitter.com/HeathrowAirport/status/1102101424731758592
TWA = Try Walking Across
SABENA = Such A Bloody Experience Never Again
QANTAS = Queens And Nymphomaniacs To Australia0 -
Double-post - half as much sense.0
-
Early Shermans used much more flammable petrol rather than diesel, I think this a reference to this.OldKingCole said:
Didn't the Germans call the ones we used in N. Africa 'Tommy cookers" because they blew up so easily and escape was nigh-on impossible?malcolmg said:
Allied ones look crap, the Germans had the most stylish and best tanks, do a compare of a sherman v jagdpanther.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why a Nazi tank rather than an Allied one?Theuniondivvie said:
My nerdy sense caught you.viewcode said:
[ Response deleted as excessively nerdy]Anorak said:
Only if you use it to buy a tank.malcolmg said:
Fools and their money are easy parted. If anyone wishes to send me their life savings I promise to look after them very well.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
"Mystery as Quadriga crypto-cash goes missing"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47454528
One of my (many) guilty pleasures is Combat Dealers, I believe they're aiming to restore or reconstruct a Jagdpanther, of which I wholly approve.0 -
Is it protected in the same way established party names are?El_Capitano said:
I wonder if they're discussing the use of the name "The Independent Group". "Independent" is a word with special significance on ballot papers. There will be elections with no TIG candidate, yet with a candidate standing as "Independent", which is potentially confusing.OblitusSumMe said:
Why would they need to be "in talks"? The rules for registering are on the website.Scott_P said:0 -
Mr. Glenn, I'm surprised Grayling's got such a high satisfaction rating.0
-
No, because I'm not bonkers and don't believe everything I read on twitter. If Russia was rigging polls they'd have put Corbyn in power. It worries me that both anti-semetic and Russia has ruined our democracy conspiracy theories are so commonplace on the fringes of our society.Gardenwalker said:
Do you think Russia interfered in the poll?Brom said:
Wow you are literally batshit mental. Your belief in conspiracy theories added to year distaste towards non EU immigration suggests you need to get out into the real world and talk to people. Not everything in life you disagree with is down to Putin, sometimes people just think differently to you. I really couldn't care less what Putin's views are on anything, like other Brits I'm capable of thinking for myself.Nigel_Foremain said:
I assume you believe the findings of the FBI that Moscow wishes to subvert western democratic processes a conspiracy eh? Not convenient to your belief that good old Uncle Vladimir couldn't possibly want to interfere? Well I guess naivete is the by-word for most Leave supporters. How does it feel to help support the foreign policy objectives of a hostile power? How very patriotic of you!Brom said:
Nurse Nurse! Carole Cadwalladr has a login!Nigel_Foremain said:
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
Hard to argue. Leadsom has excelled in recent months and Grayling has sunk. May really should get rid, though I guess she can't afford to lose any more allies.williamglenn said:Is everyone green on Leadsom for Leader?
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/03/leadsom-climbs-to-the-top-spot-in-our-cabinet-league-table.html0 -
Not even then, because highly skilled migration tends to be in jobs and industries not easily automated.Sandpit said:
The only way the population is coming down is with massive investment in industrial capital to replace labour.OblitusSumMe said:
One of the problems British politics has had for the past several years is that we have had a government that has made a public commitment to reduce net migration to < 100,000 - but the government have not taken the necessary steps to reduce immigration (or encourage emigration) to hit this target. All the while that net immigration from outside the EU was above 100,000 they hid behind the excuse of EU Freedom of Movement for not hitting their target.The_Taxman said:
Brexit may mean the UK "regains sovereignty" over immigration but that does not mean it is going to stop immigration. There are going to be some very unhappy people who voted for Brexit who will see immigrants from Europe replaced by those from the rest of the World, especially if the replacement immigrants follow different faiths and establish even more separatist diasporas.Gardenwalker said:At the end of the day, Brexit creates trade friction with by far our biggest market.
At the margin, according to all known economic theory except perhaps that taught in North Korea, this will reduce trading activity and both economic activity and jobs will reduce as a result.
The harder the Brexit, the bigger these effects.
It will be difficult to take any particular anecdote of say a factory closing down and attribute it solely to Brexit. It is in aggregate where the effects will be seen, along the with the effects of ongoing uncertainty since 2016.
Obviously there is a trade off to be made. It is reasonable enough I suppose to say that this is a cost worth paying in order to regain sovereignty over immigration.
What makes you look stupid is when you deny there is any cost to be paid at all. It is surprising this is still a debating point.
Even in a No Deal Brexit due to demographic change the UK will require migrants to fill all manner of jobs. People retire, die or move to other better paying jobs all the time. It seems to me Brexit wrecks the economy and all the problems a divided society faces will just get worse as their is less money to address these problems.
If the UK does leave the EU (and the Single Market) then any government pledging to reduce immigration will no longer find it so easy to excuse its failures in this way. This will hopefully introduce some more honesty into the debate.
However. Migration is an economic choice, with overwhelming benefits but also some costs.
We can reduce migration to zero, but then we must forgo the overwhelming economic benefits.0 -
Guido reporting that BEIS have put in place all agreements and computer systems needed for the UK Nuclear Industry to continue as normal after Brexit.
People needing radioactive cancer drugs should be happy.0 -
Longer game; wrecking trust in the whole thing!Brom said:
No, because I'm not bonkers and don't believe everything I read on twitter. If Russia was rigging polls they'd have put Corbyn in power. It worries me that both anti-semetic and Russia has ruined our democracy conspiracy theories are so commonplace on the fringes of our society.Gardenwalker said:
Do you think Russia interfered in the poll?Brom said:
Wow you are literally batshit mental. Your belief in conspiracy theories added to year distaste towards non EU immigration suggests you need to get out into the real world and talk to people. Not everything in life you disagree with is down to Putin, sometimes people just think differently to you. I really couldn't care less what Putin's views are on anything, like other Brits I'm capable of thinking for myself.Nigel_Foremain said:
I assume you believe the findings of the FBI that Moscow wishes to subvert western democratic processes a conspiracy eh? Not convenient to your belief that good old Uncle Vladimir couldn't possibly want to interfere? Well I guess naivete is the by-word for most Leave supporters. How does it feel to help support the foreign policy objectives of a hostile power? How very patriotic of you!Brom said:
Nurse Nurse! Carole Cadwalladr has a login!Nigel_Foremain said:
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0 -
Attention seeking?Scott_P said:0 -
0
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Presumably you believe the ongoing investigations by the Electoral Commission, the Culture Select Committee, and relatedly, the US Senate, are a waste of time, then.Brom said:
No, because I'm not bonkers and don't believe everything I read on twitter. If Russia was rigging polls they'd have put Corbyn in power. It worries me that both anti-semetic and Russia has ruined our democracy conspiracy theories are so commonplace on the fringes of our society.Gardenwalker said:
Do you think Russia interfered in the poll?Brom said:
Wow you are literally batshit mental. Your belief in conspiracy theories added to year distaste towards non EU immigration suggests you need to get out into the real world and talk to people. Not everything in life you disagree with is down to Putin, sometimes people just think differently to you. I really couldn't care less what Putin's views are on anything, like other Brits I'm capable of thinking for myself.Nigel_Foremain said:
I assume you believe the findings of the FBI that Moscow wishes to subvert western democratic processes a conspiracy eh? Not convenient to your belief that good old Uncle Vladimir couldn't possibly want to interfere? Well I guess naivete is the by-word for most Leave supporters. How does it feel to help support the foreign policy objectives of a hostile power? How very patriotic of you!Brom said:
Nurse Nurse! Carole Cadwalladr has a login!Nigel_Foremain said:
Yes, but if it was in any way subverted it strengthens the case for another vote. Also, IF there is any truth in the allegations then hopefully the little toe rag will end up in jail and perhaps he will take the other of utensils of Putin with him.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure why there is this obsession with Banks. Maybe there was dodgy financial goings on - in which case, report them to the proper authorities and let the legal process do what it needs to.Scott_P said:
But the referendum is not going to get overturned. No matter what they try to dig up.0
This discussion has been closed.