politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Newport West – the first electoral test for the TIGers?
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The party has said he is not a member and cannot stand for the party_Anazina_ said:williamglenn said:I see someone is keen to prove Anna Soubry's point.
https://twitter.com/Steven_Woolfe/status/1098224374476390403
Cry Woolfe!0 -
So May turns up to Brussels spends half an hour talking crap and then shuffles back to the UK delusionally exclaiming further progress has been made .
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To me, she comes across like that all the time. In contrast, Heidi Allen came across well this afternoon.AndyJS said:I thought that Anna Soubry on Channel 4 News was a bit rude and patronising towards Bill Cash. He was courteous to her but she was rather snooty towards him.
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I thought that the Pope was Catholic ...AndyJS said:I thought that Anna Soubry on Channel 4 News was a bit rude and patronising ...
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Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Coalition building implies compromise and a bit of give and take in some areas, and agreeing to disagree in others.No_Offence_Alan said:
What like "why can't parties stop fighting and just get together in coalition?"Black_Rook said:
I hope you aren't suggesting that voters say one thing and mean the other?Alistair said:
Ah, the public who want to keep FPTP but don't like what that means.GIN1138 said:Here's one People's Vote the people do actually want
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1098284695735943168
(Or hold multiple contradictory views simultaneously?)
This is not the same as believing all the things at once.0 -
2011 Referendum:OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No to AV: 68%
Yes to AV: 32%-1 -
It’s a very heaven. Walk up from there and lunch in the garden at The Sun at Dedham on a warm Saturday. Pretty much the perfect day.Floater said:
I was at Flatford Mill last weekend - just a wonderful spot._Anazina_ said:
Until you have walked through Dedham Vale on a warm spring day, you should STFU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Why wouldn't she? The tactic has worked like a dream so far.nico67 said:So May turns up to Brussels spends half an hour talking crap and then shuffles back to the UK delusionally exclaiming further progress has been made .
Can successfully kicked another few yards towards Point-Of-No-Return-My-Deal-Or-No-Deal-Panic-Panic-Panic-Panic-Panic Day.0 -
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I think if anything it is a more favourable environment for a new party with MPs in a hung H of C instead of a solid Tory majority as in the early 1980s. Political identification and partisanship are diminishing. People become bored and will embrace risks that they were not willing to do in the past.nielh said:
The SDP comparison is overdone. There was no major issue where a significant proportion of the population were unrepresented by the major parties (Brexit). The internet wasn't a thing. I think it will work out a completely different way, this time around. How it will play out is anyones guess.IanB2 said:
A survey of SDP members found 25% joined from Labour, 10% from the Tories, 5% from the Liberals, with the remaining 60% joining afresh as previous non-party members.stodge said:Evening all
One could argue the SDP's most significant achievement was to being first Labour and then the Conservative parties back to the centre - perhaps TIG will do something similar.
The problem is we still don't really know what TIG stands for apart from being opposed to Brexit - rather like the early days of the SDP or May anyone can project anything.
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government destroyer, looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!
I noticed the style of the defection of the Tories today and the three seemed to be trying to optimise Heidi Allen's exposure to the media. This maybe because she has only been an MP since 2015 and many people will never have heard of her before. It may also have been because she is very telegenic in my opinion and the message coming from a fresh faced source maybe mean a more receptive public approval?0 -
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.0 -
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I think if anything it is a more favourable environment for a new party with MPs in a hung H of C instead of a solid Tory majority as in the early 1980s. Political identification and partisanship are diminishing. People become bored and will embrace risks that they were not willing to do in the past.nielh said:
The SDP comparison is overdone. There was no major issue where a significant proportion of the population were unrepresented by the major parties (Brexit). The internet wasn't a thing. I think it will work out a completely different way, this time around. How it will play out is anyones guess.IanB2 said:
A survey of SDP members found 25% joined from Labour, 10% from the Tories, 5% from the Liberals, with the remaining 60% joining afresh as previous non-party members.stodge said:Evening all
One could argue the SDP's most significant achievement was to being first Labour and then the Conservative parties back to the centre - perhaps TIG will do something similar.
The problem is we still don't really know what TIG stands for apart from being opposed to Brexit - rather like the early days of the SDP or May anyone can project anything.
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government , looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!
I noticed the style of the defection of the Tories today and the three seemed to be trying to optimise Heidi Allen's exposure to the media. This maybe because she has only been an MP since 2015 and many people will never have heard of her before. It may also have been because she is very telegenic in my opinion and the message coming from a fresh faced source maybe mean a more receptive public approval?0 -
Oops. It was a dumb thing to say, wasn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
You fecker.ydoethur said:So far England are doing unexpectedly well.
Cue a sudden collapse...
You are now exiled to ConHome until the UK revokes article 50 or rejoins the EU.0 -
Far from clear that they have done that.Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I think if anything it is a more favourable environment for a new party with MPs in a hung H of C instead of a solid Tory majority as in the early 1980s. Political identification and partisanship are diminishing. People become bored and will embrace risks that they were not willing to do in the past.nielh said:
The SDP comparison is overdone. There was no major issue where a significant proportion of the population were unrepresented by the major parties (Brexit). The internet wasn't a thing. I think it will work out a completely different way, this time around. How it will play out is anyones guess.IanB2 said:
A survey of SDP members found 25% joined from Labour, 10% from the Tories, 5% from the Liberals, with the remaining 60% joining afresh as previous non-party members.stodge said:Evening all
One could argue the SDP's most significant achievement was to being first Labour and then the Conservative parties back to the centre - perhaps TIG will do something similar.
The problem is we still don't really know what TIG stands for apart from being opposed to Brexit - rather like the early days of the SDP or May anyone can project anything.
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government , looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!0 -
It is good that we are back at the 1000 year Tory reich stage, maybe time for the Tories to call a general election to take advantage of Labour?Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I think if anything it is a more favourable environment for a new party with MPs in a hung H of C instead of a solid Tory majority as in the early 1980s. Political identification and partisanship are diminishing. People become bored and will embrace risks that they were not willing to do in the past.nielh said:
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government , looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!
I noticed the style of the defection of the Tories today and the three seemed to be trying to optimise Heidi Allen's exposure to the media. This maybe because she has only been an MP since 2015 and many people will never have heard of her before. It may also have been because she is very telegenic in my opinion and the message coming from a fresh faced source maybe mean a more receptive public approval?0 -
Are you DavidL in disguise?ydoethur said:
Oops. It was a dumb thing to say, wasn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
You fecker.ydoethur said:So far England are doing unexpectedly well.
Cue a sudden collapse...
You are now exiled to ConHome until the UK revokes article 50 or rejoins the EU.0 -
Only works if they find a way to properly wound Labour between now and 2022, assuming that Parliament lasts its full term of course.Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.
If all they end up doing is whining about Brexit for another month before fading into obscurity then they'll make no practical difference to anything. Might as well rename themselves the P45 Club.0 -
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Indeed it's quite likely any enquiry will find him insufficiently antisemitic and re-expel him.Recidivist said:
It wasn't all that antisemitic. But whatever. I think this is just a bit of news management.Theuniondivvie said:
Antisemitic tweet I believe.dr_spyn said:Hatton back on the naughty step.
https://twitter.com/LivEchonews/status/1098281989562646528
'first as tragedy, then as farce'
Meantime, a lefty friend of mine shares a Facebook post which seeks to defend accusations of antisemitism by alleging a Jewish conspiracy. You couldn't make it up. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2070733679628884&id=100000768157558&sfnsn=mo0 -
You're surprised? May's behaviour in doing that for months has been hugely unacceptable. And it has been false claims of progress too, as the EU usually makes clear pretty quickly. Unforgivable.nico67 said:So May turns up to Brussels spends half an hour talking crap and then shuffles back to the UK delusionally exclaiming further progress has been made .
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No.TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you DavidL in disguise?ydoethur said:
Oops. It was a dumb thing to say, wasn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
You fecker.ydoethur said:So far England are doing unexpectedly well.
Cue a sudden collapse...
You are now exiled to ConHome until the UK revokes article 50 or rejoins the EU.
All other considerations aside, I have good taste in films.0 -
Interesting that Elizabeth Warren says 'full stop' instead of 'period'.
https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/10983220628951695360 -
Better than its usual Pooh Corner.....FrancisUrquhart said:
Or Hundred acre wood?williamglenn said:
Can PB rebrand as TiggerHome?TheScreamingEagles said:
You fecker.ydoethur said:So far England are doing unexpectedly well.
Cue a sudden collapse...
You are now exiled to ConHome until the UK revokes article 50 or rejoins the EU.0 -
Yes; not a lot of better places. The estuary around Tollesbury is pretty good, too._Anazina_ said:
It’s a very heaven. Walk up from there and lunch in the garden at The Sun at Dedham on a warm Saturday. Pretty much the perfect day.Floater said:
I was at Flatford Mill last weekend - just a wonderful spot._Anazina_ said:
Until you have walked through Dedham Vale on a warm spring day, you should STFU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
There are some good pubs right across Essex N of Chelmsford.0 -
An American who talks proper English like what we do?williamglenn said:Interesting that Elizabeth Warren says 'full stop' instead of 'period'.
https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1098322062895169536
They be rare.0 -
Dare I say it, but some decent points in an article on...ConHome about tips for a new party.0
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True dat.ydoethur said:
An American who talks proper English like what we do?williamglenn said:Interesting that Elizabeth Warren says 'full stop' instead of 'period'.
https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1098322062895169536
They be rare.0 -
Middle sentence is key. Javid is letting himself down. Making these sorts of decisions based on what you think will get the mob cheering tends to lead to bad decisions. Remember Balls and Sharon Shoesmith? This reminds me of that.rcs1000 said:Pretty much agree with all of this.
It's also a reminder that we need to spend the time to craft sensible legislation, not act in a series of jolts driven by headlines.
The law should be that if you leave the country to fight against the United Kingdom, then you are guilty of treason, and punishment can be anything up to a whole life tariff.0 -
But her husband gets another box of chocolates and a couple of bottles of Kwak. Job's a goodun.nico67 said:So May turns up to Brussels spends half an hour talking crap and then shuffles back to the UK delusionally exclaiming further progress has been made .
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It is more than clear that Corbyn is now unsuitable for office and the polls are already showing it.justin124 said:
Far from clear that they have done that.Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I think if anything it is a more favourable environment for a new party with MPs in a hung H of C instead of a solid Tory majority as in the early 1980s. Political identification and partisanship are diminishing. People become bored and will embrace risks that they were not willing to do in the past.nielh said:
The SDP comparison is overdone. There was no major issue where a significant proportion of the population were unrepresented by the major parties (Brexit). The internet wasn't a thing. I think it will work out a completely different way, this time around. How it will play out is anyones guess.IanB2 said:
A survey of SDP members found 25% joined from Labour, 10% from the Tories, 5% from the Liberals, with the remaining 60% joining afresh as previous non-party members.stodge said:Evening all
One could argue the SDP's most significant achievement was to being first Labour and then the Conservative parties back to the centre - perhaps TIG will do something similar.
The problem is we still don't really know what TIG stands for apart from being opposed to Brexit - rather like the early days of the SDP or May anyone can project anything.
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government , looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!
You need to take off your 'blinkers'0 -
I thought Cameron was pretty poor at dealing with the EU Commission. And then May came along.....kle4 said:
You're surprised? May's behaviour in doing that for months has been hugely unacceptable. And it has been false claims of progress too, as the EU usually makes clear pretty quickly. Unforgivable.nico67 said:So May turns up to Brussels spends half an hour talking crap and then shuffles back to the UK delusionally exclaiming further progress has been made .
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When we all hear pineapple pizza is on the menu....MarqueeMark said:
Better than its usual Pooh Corner.....FrancisUrquhart said:
Or Hundred acre wood?williamglenn said:
Can PB rebrand as TiggerHome?TheScreamingEagles said:
You fecker.ydoethur said:So far England are doing unexpectedly well.
Cue a sudden collapse...
You are now exiled to ConHome until the UK revokes article 50 or rejoins the EU.
http://media.giphy.com/media/84ZzhsJZWlE3e/giphy.gif0 -
Real Madrid 2-1 Man City0
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Justin124
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.
This is true but it depends on who the next defector and of course the timing.
If any more Tory MPs go then the Government will be in danger of not getting legislation through and they already had trouble when DUP or ERG went on strike recently. A defection makes it potentially a permanent problem rather than a temporary one.
More Labour MPs particularly former cabinet ministers or frontbenchers would be very newsworthy. The secret of a defection I suppose is to make it different to the last one! They are media savvy individuals and might combine a defection with something of strategic importance i.e. A candidate for the Newport West seat or a framework for a new party or even a big donation to get the party rolling!0 -
One doesn't need to think him suitable for office to believe that a Corbyn led Labour government may still be possible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is more than clear that Corbyn is now unsuitable for office and the polls are already showing it.justin124 said:
Far from clear that they have done that.Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
Whajustin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I think if anything it is a more favourable environment for a new party with MPs in a hung H of C instead of a solid Tory majority as in the early 1980s. Political identification and partisanship are diminishing. People become bored and will embrace risks that they were not willing to do in the past.nielh said:
The SDP comparison is overdone. There was no major issue where a significant proportion of the population were unrepresented by the major parties (Brexit). The internet wasn't a thing. I think it will work out a completely different way, this time around. How it will play out is anyones guess.IanB2 said:
A survey of SDP members found 25% joined from Labour, 10% from the Tories, 5% from the Liberals, with the remaining 60% joining afresh as previous non-party members.stodge said:Evening all
One could argue the SDP's most significant achievement was to being first Labour and then the Conservative parties back to the centre - perhaps TIG will do something similar.
The problem is we still don't really know what TIG stands for apart from being opposed to Brexit - rather like the early days of the SDP or May anyone can project anything.
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government , looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!
You need to take off your 'blinkers'
I won't rule it out, although it looks less likely to me now, at the very least in the short term.0 -
Given that the Tiggers are only about stopping Brexit (and Corbyn) it is very much about Westminster, given only they can prevent the former. I wonder how many local politicians are waiting to see what the Tiggers actually stand for beyond that to consider if they should jump ship .0
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Does that mean Birmingham is going to split down the middle?Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Not yet. There is a lot further for Corbyn and labour to fall as further defections happen when he refuses to back a second referendum and the constant daily drip of anti semitism and hard left influence in his office is exposedTheJezziah said:
It is good that we are back at the 1000 year Tory reich stage, maybe time for the Tories to call a general election to take advantage of Labour?Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I think if anything it is a more favourable environment for a new party with MPs in a hung H of C instead of a solid Tory majority as in the early 1980s. Political identification and partisanship are diminishing. People become bored and will embrace risks that they were not willing to do in the past.nielh said:
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government , looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!
I noticed the style of the defection of the Tories today and the three seemed to be trying to optimise Heidi Allen's exposure to the media. This maybe because she has only been an MP since 2015 and many people will never have heard of her before. It may also have been because she is very telegenic in my opinion and the message coming from a fresh faced source maybe mean a more receptive public approval?0 -
I think sustained No Deal Brexit ensures a Corbyn Premiership.kle4 said:
One doesn't need to think him suitable for office to believe that a Corbyn led Labour government may still be possible.
I won't rule it out, although it looks less likely to me now, at the very least in the short term.0 -
If Trump can get elected so can Corbyn .
We live in strange times .0 -
Should root be in the ODI team? Should hales be in there instead?0
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You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.-1 -
i'm curious as to how you can be so certain as to the facts?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
0 -
Derek Hatton and a funny/offensive/homophobic/sexist/fat shaming/chauvinistic/misogynistic (delete as applicable) joke
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/6202/full0 -
With a 78% v 15% approval a politician is doing something the country demandskinabalu said:
Middle sentence is key. Javid is letting himself down. Making these sorts of decisions based on what you think will get the mob cheering tends to lead to bad decisions. Remember Balls and Sharon Shoesmith? This reminds me of that.rcs1000 said:Pretty much agree with all of this.
It's also a reminder that we need to spend the time to craft sensible legislation, not act in a series of jolts driven by headlines.
The law should be that if you leave the country to fight against the United Kingdom, then you are guilty of treason, and punishment can be anything up to a whole life tariff.0 -
AlastairMeeks said:
The question whether MPs should subject themselves to by-elections is a good one. It seems to me that MPs who can fairly claim that events have taken their party away from them rather than vice versa don’t have the same obligation as MPs who have moved away from their party.
So the current ex-Cons have more explaining for me on this than the ex-Labs.
If Theresa May embraces no-deal, future Con defectors have no moral obligation to submit themselves to a fresh verdict of their constituency electorate.
Hasn't she rather embraced No Deal already? That's what we're heading for, she has refused to take it off the table, her Deal has been heavily defeated and the EU has repeatedly said that the WA is not up for renegotiation.-1 -
OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Look at old election results, and Labour was competitive across Essex, Suffolk, and Norfolk.OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
0 -
They are not playing Real MadridPulpstar said:Real Madrid 2-1 Man City
0 -
ODI recordsFrancisUrquhart said:Should root be in the ODI team? Should hales be in there instead?
Root average 51.52
Hales average 37.32
Sheffield's Joe Root deserves to be in ahead of Hales.0 -
And the proof of that is ...nico67 said:If Trump can get elected so can Corbyn .
We live in strange times .
0 -
I know what John's like, he is a snivelling little coward.Cyclefree said:
You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
When do you expect him to repeat what he said without protection?
He won't because it is lies, that is the evidence I have, I wait to be proved wrong.0 -
I have to say I am reminded of Kipling's linesBig_G_NorthWales said:
With a 78% v 15% approval a politician is doing something the country demandskinabalu said:
Middle sentence is key. Javid is letting himself down. Making these sorts of decisions based on what you think will get the mob cheering tends to lead to bad decisions. Remember Balls and Sharon Shoesmith? This reminds me of that.rcs1000 said:Pretty much agree with all of this.
It's also a reminder that we need to spend the time to craft sensible legislation, not act in a series of jolts driven by headlines.
The law should be that if you leave the country to fight against the United Kingdom, then you are guilty of treason, and punishment can be anything up to a whole life tariff.
I could not dig: I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.0 -
Surprisingly decentish rate to start off too, considering no boundaries from him.TheScreamingEagles said:
ODI recordsFrancisUrquhart said:Should root be in the ODI team? Should hales be in there instead?
Root average 51.52
Hales average 37.32
Sheffield's Joe Root deserves to be in ahead of Hales.0 -
Heidi Allen just said on Peston that she wouldn't support a VONC.0
-
Trump's supporters chant 'Jews will not replace us'TheAncientMariner said:
And the proof of that is ...nico67 said:If Trump can get elected so can Corbyn .
We live in strange times .
You can't imagine Corbyn's supporters chanting that. Oh.0 -
0
-
All those health tablets plus some of his interesting views, he sounds a bit like a left wing version of Alex Jones.DonTsInferno_ said:Derek Hatton and a funny/offensive/homophobic/sexist/fat shaming/chauvinistic/misogynistic (delete as applicable) joke
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/6202/full0 -
Yes, but not officially.Cyclefree said:AlastairMeeks said:The question whether MPs should subject themselves to by-elections is a good one. It seems to me that MPs who can fairly claim that events have taken their party away from them rather than vice versa don’t have the same obligation as MPs who have moved away from their party.
So the current ex-Cons have more explaining for me on this than the ex-Labs.
If Theresa May embraces no-deal, future Con defectors have no moral obligation to submit themselves to a fresh verdict of their constituency electorate.
Hasn't she rather embraced No Deal already?
0 -
What about strike rate? England are now getting a bit bogged now.TheScreamingEagles said:
ODI recordsFrancisUrquhart said:Should root be in the ODI team? Should hales be in there instead?
Root average 51.52
Hales average 37.32
Sheffield's Joe Root deserves to be in ahead of Hales.0 -
Yesterday’s man has new specs.williamglenn said:The leader speaks.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1098318064020525056?s=210 -
So you have no evidence. Good to get that cleared up.TheJezziah said:
I know what John's like, he is a snivelling little coward.Cyclefree said:
You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
When do you expect him to repeat what he said without protection?
He won't because it is lies, that is the evidence I have, I wait to be proved wrong.
For the sake of OGH's wallet, best not to keep repeating your allegation, which is potentially libellous.0 -
Did you not see the response from Tory HQ saying that they had already turned him down?williamglenn said:I see someone is keen to prove Anna Soubry's point.
https://twitter.com/Steven_Woolfe/status/10982243744763904030 -
He is starting to look more like magic great-grandad.Jonathan said:
Yesterday’s man has new specs.williamglenn said:The leader speaks.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1098318064020525056?s=210 -
She also said she didn't think they could cope with, or wanted, lots of Conservative defections, if I understood her correctly.El_Capitano said:Heidi Allen just said on Peston that she wouldn't support a VONC.
0 -
Nice to see the pre 2017 confidence back, the racist right wing papers will accuse our opponents of racism and we'll sail to victory...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not yet. There is a lot further for Corbyn and labour to fall as further defections happen when he refuses to back a second referendum and the constant daily drip of anti semitism and hard left influence in his office is exposedTheJezziah said:
It is good that we are back at the 1000 year Tory reich stage, maybe time for the Tories to call a general election to take advantage of Labour?Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I noticed the style of the defection of the Tories today and the three seemed to be trying to optimise Heidi Allen's exposure to the media. This maybe because she has only been an MP since 2015 and many people will never have heard of her before. It may also have been because she is very telegenic in my opinion and the message coming from a fresh faced source maybe mean a more receptive public approval?0 -
As a matter of interest have you listened to his commentsTheJezziah said:
I know what John's like, he is a snivelling little coward.Cyclefree said:
You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
When do you expect him to repeat what he said without protection?
He won't because it is lies, that is the evidence I have, I wait to be proved wrong.
https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/26a6adbe-141a-48d2-bafa-c8686b9093c5
About 18.240 -
When I moved to whwre i lived now there was a Labour MP. And where I moved from, both in Essex there was a Labour MP for four years. Doesn't look as though that situation will be repeated in either constituency any time soon.Sean_F said:OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Look at old election results, and Labour was competitive across Essex, Suffolk, and Norfolk.OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Hales 95.65FrancisUrquhart said:
What about strike rate? England are now getting a bit bogged now.TheScreamingEagles said:
ODI recordsFrancisUrquhart said:Should root be in the ODI team? Should hales be in there instead?
Root average 51.52
Hales average 37.32
Sheffield's Joe Root deserves to be in ahead of Hales.
Root 86.43
So largely comparable, especially when you consider Hales opens when there are fielding restrictions in place.0 -
Was watching the 64 election a while back. They said the election would turn on the East Anglian marginals...how times change.Sean_F said:OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Look at old election results, and Labour was competitive across Essex, Suffolk, and Norfolk.OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
She said that this afternoon as well at the conference. There are several dynamics in play, one is opposing Brexit, another is not helping Corbyn to No10 and finally time to organise and create a party machine.El_Capitano said:Heidi Allen just said on Peston that she wouldn't support a VONC.
0 -
None of them will. Their revolution is over before it startsEl_Capitano said:Heidi Allen just said on Peston that she wouldn't support a VONC.
0 -
Recommendations please!OldKingCole said:
Yes; not a lot of better places. The estuary around Tollesbury is pretty good, too._Anazina_ said:
It’s a very heaven. Walk up from there and lunch in the garden at The Sun at Dedham on a warm Saturday. Pretty much the perfect day.Floater said:
I was at Flatford Mill last weekend - just a wonderful spot._Anazina_ said:
Until you have walked through Dedham Vale on a warm spring day, you should STFU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
There are some good pubs right across Essex N of Chelmsford.0 -
Have to say surprised hales is sub 100. Roy is 105.TheScreamingEagles said:
Hales 95.65FrancisUrquhart said:
What about strike rate? England are now getting a bit bogged now.TheScreamingEagles said:
ODI recordsFrancisUrquhart said:Should root be in the ODI team? Should hales be in there instead?
Root average 51.52
Hales average 37.32
Sheffield's Joe Root deserves to be in ahead of Hales.
Root 86.43
So largely comparable, especially when you consider Hales opens when there are fielding restrictions in place.0 -
Middle aged Tories leaving outer London.OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
So when pray tell do you expect brave John to repeat his words without protection?Cyclefree said:
So you have no evidence. Good to get that cleared up.TheJezziah said:
I know what John's like, he is a snivelling little coward.Cyclefree said:
You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
When do you expect him to repeat what he said without protection?
He won't because it is lies, that is the evidence I have, I wait to be proved wrong.
For the sake of OGH's wallet, best not to keep repeating your allegation, which is potentially libellous.
Surely he would be happy to do so were he not making up a pack of lies, it is the only logical conclusion that the coward lacks the bravery to repeat his lies without protection.0 -
I think you need to look at labour mps for the accusations. They have experienced it first hand and are leaving the party because of itTheJezziah said:
Nice to see the pre 2017 confidence back, the racist right wing papers will accuse our opponents of racism and we'll sail to victory...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not yet. There is a lot further for Corbyn and labour to fall as further defections happen when he refuses to back a second referendum and the constant daily drip of anti semitism and hard left influence in his office is exposedTheJezziah said:
It is good that we are back at the 1000 year Tory reich stage, maybe time for the Tories to call a general election to take advantage of Labour?Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
What if the defections slowly continue week on week? I used to work in a newsagents in my teens and remember looking at some newspapers from the early 1980s. The SDP defections happened over weeks or months and so in the current media environment a defection maybe as newsworthy as a by-election was then.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:
I noticed the style of the defection of the Tories today and the three seemed to be trying to optimise Heidi Allen's exposure to the media. This maybe because she has only been an MP since 2015 and many people will never have heard of her before. It may also have been because she is very telegenic in my opinion and the message coming from a fresh faced source maybe mean a more receptive public approval?0 -
Yes, bullies often like to attack people if they don't think there is a consequence.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a matter of interest have you listened to his commentsTheJezziah said:
I know what John's like, he is a snivelling little coward.Cyclefree said:
You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
When do you expect him to repeat what he said without protection?
He won't because it is lies, that is the evidence I have, I wait to be proved wrong.
https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/26a6adbe-141a-48d2-bafa-c8686b9093c5
About 18.24
Do you expect John Mann to repeat his accusations outside the commons or do you think he is too cowardly to do so?0 -
I am not partial to 'blinkers' and am no Corbynite - indeed I have openly declared my intention to spoil my ballot paper next time ( albeit for unrelated reasons). As for the polls , it depends what you want to focus on - Yougov has the Tories 8% ahead after a difficult few days for Labour - yet Opinium is now putting the parties back at level pegging having had the Tories 7% ahead two weeks earlier. Perhaps today's Tory defections will shift the polls a bit to their disadvantage. We can only wait and see until things settle down again.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is more than clear that Corbyn is now unsuitable for office and the polls are already showing it.justin124 said:
Far from clear that they have done that.Mortimer said:
Apart from the lasting impact of making a Corbyn led Labour govt pretty much impossible...justin124 said:
The novelty of a defection tends to wear off quite quickly.This week porobably represents peak exposure for the new group, and it seems unlikely it will receive further exposure via the Newport West by election or the Local Elections to be held on 2nd May.I am not sure that the departure of Woodcock, Lewis or even Frank Field has had a lasting impact.The_Taxman said:
.justin124 said:
On the other hand there are now far fewer by elections than in earlier decades , and this will deny any new party the oxygen of momentum and publicity previously generated by such campaigns.The_Taxman said:nielh said:
The SDP comparison is overdone. There was no major issue where a significant proportion of the population were unrepresented by the major parties (Brexit). The internet wasn't a thing. I think it will work out a completely different way, this time around. How it will play out is anyones guess.IanB2 said:
A survey of SDP members found 25% joined from Labour, 10% from the Tories, 5% from the Liberals, with the remaining 60% joining afresh as previous non-party members.stodge said:Evening all
One could argue the SDP's most significant achievement was to being first Labour and then the Conservative parties back to the centre - perhaps TIG will do something similar.
The problem is we still don't really know what TIG stands for apart from being opposed to Brexit - rather like the early days of the SDP or May anyone can project anything.
everal years ago that Brexit would be a Government , looks like he will be proved correct on both accounts!
You need to take off your 'blinkers'0 -
We are at our best when we work together...unless it is with Blairites.williamglenn said:The leader speaks.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1098318064020525056?s=21
Also, if it is true, as he says, that the GE showed that only the Labour platform delivers what people actually want, why did the Tory platform receive more votes?
I know why they go on the biggest increase in vote share line so much, and it was impressive, but I do get a bit sick of it though. It's like praising May increasing the share, it's true but on its own that is not critical.
And he has got some major balls to complain about people abandoning policies on which they were elected - he really has become as shameless as any party leader he once decried.
Depressing take on the public to believe that noone other than Labour has delivered for the many, not the few - it it means the public has consistently elected goverments for the few not the many.0 -
Stop it. You are putting OGH at risk.TheJezziah said:
So when pray tell do you expect brave John to repeat his words without protection?Cyclefree said:
So you have no evidence. Good to get that cleared up.TheJezziah said:
I know what John's like, he is a snivelling little coward.Cyclefree said:
You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
When do you expect him to repeat what he said without protection?
He won't because it is lies, that is the evidence I have, I wait to be proved wrong.
For the sake of OGH's wallet, best not to keep repeating your allegation, which is potentially libellous.
Surely he would be happy to do so were he not making up a pack of lies, it is the only logical conclusion that the coward lacks the bravery to repeat his lies without protection.
(And making yourself look ridiculous.)0 -
Yep. She doesn't want to collapse the government - wasn't clear whether this was because Brexit is at a critical juncture or because TIG aren't ready for an election, or both.solarflare said:
She also said she didn't think they could cope with, or wanted, lots of Conservative defections, if I understood her correctly.El_Capitano said:Heidi Allen just said on Peston that she wouldn't support a VONC.
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So that's two Labour MPs who have made statements laying themselves wide open to ridicule today.williamglenn said:The leader speaks.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1098318064020525056?s=21
One is an insignificant backbench MP at odds with the party, whom everyone sane thinks is a racist coward, liar and failure.
And the other is of course the MP for Bassetlaw.
*grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*0 -
The Sun at Feering. The Bell in the same village. The Chapel or the Woolpack in Coggeshall. The Old Crown at Messing._Anazina_ said:
Recommendations please!OldKingCole said:
Yes; not a lot of better places. The estuary around Tollesbury is pretty good, too._Anazina_ said:
It’s a very heaven. Walk up from there and lunch in the garden at The Sun at Dedham on a warm Saturday. Pretty much the perfect day.Floater said:
I was at Flatford Mill last weekend - just a wonderful spot._Anazina_ said:
Until you have walked through Dedham Vale on a warm spring day, you should STFU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
There are some good pubs right across Essex N of Chelmsford.
Windies have just dropped another catch.0 -
And once upon a time LibDems came within a handful of winning Chemsford and Southend W, and did win ColchesterSean_F said:OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Look at old election results, and Labour was competitive across Essex, Suffolk, and Norfolk.OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
West Indies fielding about as good as Tessie May dancing.0
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TBH, not sure that's right.IanB2 said:
Middle aged Tories leaving outer London.OldKingCole said:
I know. It can be depressing. And although I've spent much of my life here, i'm not entirely sure why.Sean_F said:
Essex keeps moving Right, the same way Merseyside keeps moving Left.OldKingCole said:
Oddly there were at one time a couple of Lib County Councillors in what is now Mark Francois constituency. But I must admit that having him, Priti Patel and Bernard Jenkin as MP's is not a good advertisement. It is in fact a good reason for changing from FPTP, although not necessarily to AV.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
Though Allen, Soubry, and Wollaston have sought to force a choice between No Deal and No Brexit. They have compromised over nothing. They can't complain that No Deal is now an option.Cyclefree said:AlastairMeeks said:The question whether MPs should subject themselves to by-elections is a good one. It seems to me that MPs who can fairly claim that events have taken their party away from them rather than vice versa don’t have the same obligation as MPs who have moved away from their party.
So the current ex-Cons have more explaining for me on this than the ex-Labs.
If Theresa May embraces no-deal, future Con defectors have no moral obligation to submit themselves to a fresh verdict of their constituency electorate.
Hasn't she rather embraced No Deal already? That's what we're heading for, she has refused to take it off the table, her Deal has been heavily defeated and the EU has repeatedly said that the WA is not up for renegotiation.0 -
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You mean you recognise that Solo is an excellent Star Wars film and that Die Hard is a Christmas Classic.ydoethur said:
No.TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you DavidL in disguise?ydoethur said:
Oops. It was a dumb thing to say, wasn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
You fecker.ydoethur said:So far England are doing unexpectedly well.
Cue a sudden collapse...
You are now exiled to ConHome until the UK revokes article 50 or rejoins the EU.
All other considerations aside, I have good taste in films. 0 -
For all the exhilerating strokeplay - England still need over 6 an over. I remember when that used to be the death-knell for a side batting second.OldKingCole said:
The Sun at Feering. The Bell in the same village. The Chapel or the Woolpack in Coggeshall. The Old Crown at Messing._Anazina_ said:
Recommendations please!OldKingCole said:
Yes; not a lot of better places. The estuary around Tollesbury is pretty good, too._Anazina_ said:
It’s a very heaven. Walk up from there and lunch in the garden at The Sun at Dedham on a warm Saturday. Pretty much the perfect day.Floater said:
I was at Flatford Mill last weekend - just a wonderful spot._Anazina_ said:
Until you have walked through Dedham Vale on a warm spring day, you should STFU.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've spent time in Essex, also Essex elected Mark Francois.OldKingCole said:
Angry splutter. I'm not bigoted. I just hate Tory MPs. And someone is judging Essex by it's TV image.Sunil_Prasannan said:
There are some good pubs right across Essex N of Chelmsford.
Windies have just dropped another catch.0 -
Fitch May be cutting the UK’s credit rating from AA0
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Well count me in the 15%. The 15% that says the 78% are wrong to think that a Home Secretary should be driven in his decision making principally by popularity and his leadership prospects.Big_G_NorthWales said:With a 78% v 15% approval a politician is doing something the country demands
Ed Balls intervention in the Shoesmith case was also massively popular. Turned out badly as he will now acknowledge.0 -
I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, but at this stage I doubt it. The antisemitism row has been rumbling on for what feels like forever, yet there's still no sign of a collapse in Labour's electoral support. This is probably because pretty much every single voter who gives a flying you-know-what about the subject has already abandoned Labour. And, frankly, it's entirely possible that the total number of voters who are *more* inclined to vote Labour because of this row (either because they've managed to convince themselves that Labour has been unfairly traduced, or because they think Jew-baiting is a good thing) is greater than the total number who find it off-putting.Big_G_NorthWales said:Not yet. There is a lot further for Corbyn and labour to fall as further defections happen when he refuses to back a second referendum and the constant daily drip of anti semitism and hard left influence in his office is exposed
The only caveat to this is Corbyn's truly appalling ratings in the regular "Best PM" polls which, IIRC, has proved to be a more reliable guide to electoral performance than the largely useless headline VI polling numbers in the past. But, then again, if he were to step down and be replaced by someone with the same views but less of a record for fringe nuttery to defend - i.e. nothing whatsoever about the party itself changed - then one could confidently expect Labour's chances of victory to increase significantly.
The formula most likely to wear Labour down, if this even proves to be possible, is either (a) the Tories finding a leader that people actually respect (and is capable of surviving an election campaign with that reputation intact,) and/or (b) the emergence of a popular new opposition party that can eat away at the old Labour core vote by being economically left, patriotic and socially small-c conservative, and unburdened with the historical baggage of the Tory party.
TIG looks absolutely nothing like (b), which presently just leaves (a). Which is where the failed VoNC against Theresa May might actually turn out to help the Tories. They need her to stay in power long enough to act as a lightning rod for everything that could go wrong in the aftermath of Brexit, before jettisoning the charred remains and finding the right successor.
That last part is the biggest challenge, of course.0 -
That’s not true. Soubra consistently pushed for a single market plus customs union Brexit until fairly recently.Sean_F said:
Though Allen, Soubry, and Wollaston have sought to force a choice between No Deal and No Brexit. They have compromised over nothing. They can't complain that No Deal is now an option.Cyclefree said:AlastairMeeks said:The question whether MPs should subject themselves to by-elections is a good one. It seems to me that MPs who can fairly claim that events have taken their party away from them rather than vice versa don’t have the same obligation as MPs who have moved away from their party.
So the current ex-Cons have more explaining for me on this than the ex-Labs.
If Theresa May embraces no-deal, future Con defectors have no moral obligation to submit themselves to a fresh verdict of their constituency electorate.
Hasn't she rather embraced No Deal already? That's what we're heading for, she has refused to take it off the table, her Deal has been heavily defeated and the EU has repeatedly said that the WA is not up for renegotiation.0 -
Jeremy and the hard left have their betrayal narrative. An excuse for defeat that will sustain the myths.0
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I think wise council is for you to let this go, as said by other postersTheJezziah said:
Yes, bullies often like to attack people if they don't think there is a consequence.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a matter of interest have you listened to his commentsTheJezziah said:
I know what John's like, he is a snivelling little coward.Cyclefree said:
You know for a fact they're lies, do you? Have you seen the correspondence he received? And the correspondence he had with the police?TheJezziah said:
If what John Mann said was true he would have said it (or be happy to repeat it) without the protections the common offers.Cyclefree said:
If what John Mann said is true and he has the evidence, then it would be him who would have a good case for libel against the journalist in question.TheJezziah said:
We could always wait for John to repeat it outside the of the commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not have the protection of the HOC so I would suggest you watch it on playbackRoger said:
Go on! What's Kev been up to now?Big_G_NorthWales said:John Mann attacking Kevin Macquire in the HOC on anti semitism, and I am not going to repeat his allegation
I think he's from Hartlepool
As we know what an honest and reliable source John is there would be no reason for him to have any fear about saying it without any protections on his speech.
I know some of you are thinking John is some kind of coward who would smear someone by telling what he knows to be lies merely for his own political advancement but I think much more highly of him than that.
John would only be saying these things if they were true, stake my life on it....
Still, good to see that Labour is still in shooting-the-messenger mode. That listening exercise of Mr McDonnell seems to have been very short-lived.
I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe John isn't a coward and would repeat his lies without that protection.
When do you expect him to repeat what he said without protection?
He won't because it is lies, that is the evidence I have, I wait to be proved wrong.
https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/26a6adbe-141a-48d2-bafa-c8686b9093c5
About 18.24
Do you expect John Mann to repeat his accusations outside the commons or do you think he is too cowardly to do so?0 -
What a lying shit he really is.ydoethur said:
So that's two Labour MPs who have made statements laying themselves wide open to ridicule today.williamglenn said:The leader speaks.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1098318064020525056?s=21
One is an insignificant backbench MP at odds with the party, whom everyone sane thinks is a racist coward, liar and failure.
And the other is of course the MP for Bassetlaw.
*grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*0
This discussion has been closed.