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Comments
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I thought we always called the Austro-Hungarian one the Emperor to distinguish him from the Kaiser.Chris said:
But the Austrians used the same title for their emperors.SouthamObserver said:
1. Corbyn is not alone in finding old buildings boring. I always struggled to get my lot to traipse round medieval towns if there was anything else to do.williamglenn said:
2. I am surprised the Kaiser had a summer retreat in Austria-Hungary rather than in Germany.
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#BreakingpointAlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
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They weren't wholly Roman though.Chris said:
But the Austrians used the same title for their emperors.SouthamObserver said:
1. Corbyn is not alone in finding old buildings boring. I always struggled to get my lot to traipse round medieval towns if there was anything else to do.williamglenn said:
2. I am surprised the Kaiser had a summer retreat in Austria-Hungary rather than in Germany.
As it is time for me to pull out my eight foot horn for its weekly inflation, I shall get my coat.
Have a good morning.0 -
Gravity always pulls the pendulum back.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cwsc, depends how tight a grip the tentacles of socialism get on the throat of Labour. The party may be permanently lost to the far left.
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More running down the clock from May.
Holds head in hands. Terrible PM.0 -
The Bower hatchet job published in a Tory rag will do little more than entrench Corbyn’s support inside Labour. That may well have been the point, of course! The last thing the Tories need is a new Labour leader.AlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
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I actually think the MoS published it as part of its genuflection to Theresa May. As a reminder to the Deal Refuseniks in her party. "This is what you are risking....."SouthamObserver said:
The Bower hatchet job published in a Tory rag will do little more than entrench Corbyn’s support inside Labour. That may well have been the point, of course! The last thing the Tories need is a new Labour leader.AlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
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Kaiser v emperor.SouthamObserver said:
I thought we always called the Austro-Hungarian one the Emperor to distinguish him from the Kaiser.Chris said:
But the Austrians used the same title for their emperors.SouthamObserver said:
1. Corbyn is not alone in finding old buildings boring. I always struggled to get my lot to traipse round medieval towns if there was anything else to do.williamglenn said:
2. I am surprised the Kaiser had a summer retreat in Austria-Hungary rather than in Germany.
Kaiser means Caesar (as does Tsar)
Caesar means hair.0 -
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Yes, I think we do. Presumably the Mail was displaying its cosmopolitan sophistication by using the vernacular term. Or maybe the author was just plain confused, as you implied.SouthamObserver said:
I thought we always called the Austro-Hungarian one the Emperor to distinguish him from the Kaiser.Chris said:
But the Austrians used the same title for their emperors.SouthamObserver said:
1. Corbyn is not alone in finding old buildings boring. I always struggled to get my lot to traipse round medieval towns if there was anything else to do.williamglenn said:
2. I am surprised the Kaiser had a summer retreat in Austria-Hungary rather than in Germany.0 -
The overlap between strong remain feelings and a love of Secessionist architecture is the key to May getting her deal through.MarqueeMark said:
I actually think the MoS published it as part of its genuflection to Theresa May. As a reminder to the Deal Refuseniks in her party. "This is what you are risking....."SouthamObserver said:
The Bower hatchet job published in a Tory rag will do little more than entrench Corbyn’s support inside Labour. That may well have been the point, of course! The last thing the Tories need is a new Labour leader.AlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
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They have been saying that for 6 months. Of course it does not make it untrueScott_P said:0 -
Or elephant.dots said:
Kaiser v emperor.SouthamObserver said:
I thought we always called the Austro-Hungarian one the Emperor to distinguish him from the Kaiser.Chris said:
But the Austrians used the same title for their emperors.SouthamObserver said:
1. Corbyn is not alone in finding old buildings boring. I always struggled to get my lot to traipse round medieval towns if there was anything else to do.williamglenn said:
2. I am surprised the Kaiser had a summer retreat in Austria-Hungary rather than in Germany.
Kaiser means Caesar (as does Tsar)
Caesar means hair.0 -
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1094536287640526848
I did mention something about this earlier.
I would love that headline wrote about me, how much is Corbyn paying them for this stuff?0 -
The overlap between strong remain feelings and nausea at parading Diane Abbott as his latest shag are stronger.....TheJezziah said:
The overlap between strong remain feelings and a love of Secessionist architecture is the key to May getting her deal through.MarqueeMark said:
I actually think the MoS published it as part of its genuflection to Theresa May. As a reminder to the Deal Refuseniks in her party. "This is what you are risking....."SouthamObserver said:
The Bower hatchet job published in a Tory rag will do little more than entrench Corbyn’s support inside Labour. That may well have been the point, of course! The last thing the Tories need is a new Labour leader.AlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
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You've got to feel sorry for the Telegraph. What a day to unveil their 'scoop' that Philip Green isn't a very nice man0
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TBH I was just being sarcastic but I'm sure the Tory remainers are big fans of Mail hit pieces.MarqueeMark said:
The overlap between strong remain feelings and nausea at parading Diane Abbott as his latest shag are stronger.....TheJezziah said:
The overlap between strong remain feelings and a love of Secessionist architecture is the key to May getting her deal through.MarqueeMark said:
I actually think the MoS published it as part of its genuflection to Theresa May. As a reminder to the Deal Refuseniks in her party. "This is what you are risking....."SouthamObserver said:
The Bower hatchet job published in a Tory rag will do little more than entrench Corbyn’s support inside Labour. That may well have been the point, of course! The last thing the Tories need is a new Labour leader.AlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
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Next week, their colour supplement, "Surprise!", covers bears shitting in the woods.....Roger said:You've got to feel sorry for the Telegraph. What a day to unveil their 'scoop' that Philip Green isn't a very nice man
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Franz Joseph was the Kaiser.SouthamObserver said:
1. Corbyn is not alone in finding old buildings boring. I always struggled to get my lot to traipse round medieval towns if there was anything else to do.williamglenn said:
2. I am surprised the Kaiser had a summer retreat in Austria-Hungary rather than in Germany.0 -
On Labour splits I really don't think that even Owen Smith would have been daft enough to answer questions the way he did last week unless plans for a split are well developed and looking practical. There are a number who find the manifesto that they were re-elected on in 2017 just unbearable and think that being in the EU is such a part of their identity that being committed to implementing the vote is unacceptable.
Whether a pro EU party of the left will find sufficient traction has to be more open to doubt. If Brexit proved to be a disaster then just maybe but I think it is worth looking again at what happened to Labour before. The departure of the SDP leadership should have weakened the centre right within Labour greatly. The loss of giants such as Jenkins should have left the centre right leaderless. And yet after Kinnock they chose Smith and then Blair. The left, who seemed so dominant when first Foot and then Kinnock took the leadership and Benn came so close to beating Healey fell back, beaten by a desire to win and get the Tories out. Why will this not happen again post Corbyn and if it does where is the room for the leftish pro EU party?
Brexit drives normally sane people mad, let alone the likes of Smith, but the strong odds have to be on any split being small and ultimately irrelevant.0 -
TBH, I always am.....TheJezziah said:
TBH I was just being sarcasticMarqueeMark said:
The overlap between strong remain feelings and nausea at parading Diane Abbott as his latest shag are stronger.....TheJezziah said:
The overlap between strong remain feelings and a love of Secessionist architecture is the key to May getting her deal through.MarqueeMark said:
I actually think the MoS published it as part of its genuflection to Theresa May. As a reminder to the Deal Refuseniks in her party. "This is what you are risking....."SouthamObserver said:
The Bower hatchet job published in a Tory rag will do little more than entrench Corbyn’s support inside Labour. That may well have been the point, of course! The last thing the Tories need is a new Labour leader.AlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
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Anyone have any evidence on what Corbyn thinks of Salisbury cathedral?0
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Absolutely. That is extremely important revelation. If he doesn’t like medieval, he is therefore a modernist , a cursed utilitarian, with crazed liberal notions of all sorts of uneducated poor to have both education and democratic vote, that will dilute the power of the monarchy the establishment the elite, the whole structure of English Imperialism that makes us the best country in world today will come crashing down.Gardenwalker said:
Both sums up the triviality of the Mail piece, but also provides more evidence that a Corbyn is a pig-ignorant barbarian.williamglenn said:
Rise up conservatives and crush this foe. And If you voted leave because you are a British Race Patriot, this Corbyn is a traitor.0 -
He keeps meaning to team up with his handler there.....Endillion said:Anyone have any evidence on what Corbyn thinks of Salisbury cathedral?
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If there were to be a general election there are several centrist Labour MPs who would want their own party to lose. I will repeat that. They would be rooting for a Tory government in preference to a Labour one.
Therefore they should not be standing as Labour candidates. This is obvious.
But I'm not sure what the best way to get rid of them is. Deselection is risky, but so is leaving them to their own devices, since one cannot know what those devices might be.
Tough one, this, for Corbyn and his people.0 -
Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.kinabalu said:If there were to be a general election there are several centrist Labour MPs who would want their own party to lose. I will repeat that. They would be rooting for a Tory government in preference to a Labour one.
Therefore they should not be standing as Labour candidates. This is obvious.
But I'm not sure what the best way to get rid of them is. Deselection is risky, but so is leaving them to their own devices, since one cannot know what those devices might be.
Tough one, this, for Corbyn and his people.0 -
No, they would be rooting for a defeat of Corbyn, who does not represent the Labour tradition they supportkinabalu said:If there were to be a general election there are several centrist Labour MPs who would want their own party to lose. I will repeat that. They would be rooting for a Tory government in preference to a Labour one.
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Might be a better idea to get rid of Corbyn !!!kinabalu said:If there were to be a general election there are several centrist Labour MPs who would want their own party to lose. I will repeat that. They would be rooting for a Tory government in preference to a Labour one.
Therefore they should not be standing as Labour candidates. This is obvious.
But I'm not sure what the best way to get rid of them is. Deselection is risky, but so is leaving them to their own devices, since one cannot know what those devices might be.
Tough one, this, for Corbyn and his people.0 -
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.0 -
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If it is May's Deal vs No Deal, how many are going to be happy with that?Scott_P said:0 -
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Owen Smith is that daft.DavidL said:On Labour splits I really don't think that even Owen Smith would have been daft enough to answer questions the way he did last week unless plans for a split are well developed and looking practical.
There are some seats a pro-Eu Independent Labour Party might win (e.g. the University seats).
But, they for sure won't win in the South Wales valleys, like Pontypridd.0 -
As I said earlier the party seems to have agreed to remain united on the promise of a vote on the deal by the 27th Feb.Scott_P said:
It has been said this morning that TM will take it down to 72 hours before Brexit so as Fergie said 'squeaky bum time'0 -
Unfortunately for Labour, it has too many such MPs. It is very tricky for the Labour to do the right thing, given the antagonism it faces from vested interests with hostile agendas.kinabalu said:If there were to be a general election there are several centrist Labour MPs who would want their own party to lose. I will repeat that. They would be rooting for a Tory government in preference to a Labour one.
Therefore they should not be standing as Labour candidates. This is obvious.
But I'm not sure what the best way to get rid of them is. Deselection is risky, but so is leaving them to their own devices, since one cannot know what those devices might be.
Tough one, this, for Corbyn and his people.0 -
If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.kinabalu said:
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.0 -
Jeremy was put on this earth to effect a massive and irreversible transfer of wealth and power in favour of working people.
It would be a real bonus if he was also a connoisseur of fine classical architecture - of course it would - but we can't all be renaissance men.0 -
I don't know. Might be important to a lot of voters.AlastairMeeks said:If you’re not put off by Jeremy Corbyn laying wreaths for terrorists, you’re not going to be too fussed that he doesn’t care for Secessionist architecture.
"What do we want?"
"Secessionist architecture!"
"When do we want it?"
"1897".0 -
Mr. kinabalu, your verb was correct. Your sentiment was not.
Socialism is a scourge of the working class. See Venezuela and the Soviet Union.0 -
As his hero did in Venezeulakinabalu said:Jeremy was put on this earth to effect a massive and irreversible transfer of wealth and power in favour of working people.
It would be a real bonus if he was also a connoisseur of fine classical architecture - of course it would - but we can't all be renaissance men.
EDIT: Have I got 'effect' vs 'affect' right there? Bet I haven't.0 -
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But what about the bats...MarqueeMark said:0 -
Jeremy would agree with you going by the manifesto he ran on in 2017.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kinabalu, your verb was correct. Your sentiment was not.
Socialism is a scourge of the working class. See Venezuela and the Soviet Union.
Socialism that was not.0 -
There is practically no Secessionist architecture on the Ringstrasse, although the Postsparkasse (Postal Savings Bank) is right adjacent.
Would have thought Hungarian-hopping Meeks would know his Jugendstil from his neo-classical.0 -
Welsh seats for the Welsh?YBarddCwsc said:
If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.kinabalu said:
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.0 -
There is literally zero chance of Chuka being deselected in Streatham, except in the wacko world of your own warped fantasies.kinabalu said:
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.0 -
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What's the matter with Kinnock Jnr?Roger said:
Welsh seats for the Welsh?YBarddCwsc said:
If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.kinabalu said:
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.0 -
Corbyn's Journey: From Flying Pickets to Flying Buttresses.......Endillion said:0 -
And that day is the 28th March....Scott_P said:0 -
Yes, they would say that only a big election defeat, and hence the advent of a strong and triumphant Tory government, will bring the party to its senses and lead to JC's removal as Labour leader.Scott_P said:No, they would be rooting for a defeat of Corbyn, who does not represent the Labour tradition they support
And they would be saying this at the very same time as they are standing for election as Labour candidates.
Except of course that they won't be saying it - because they will be standing for election as Labour candidates.0 -
Good questionOldKingCole said:
What's the matter with Kinnock Jnr?Roger said:
Welsh seats for the Welsh?YBarddCwsc said:
If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.kinabalu said:
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.0 -
I strongly disapprove of very wealthy people with no previous connection to a constituency being parachuted in (whether it is Nick Boles in Grantham or the Carpetbaggers in the Welsh valleys).Roger said:
Welsh seats for the Welsh?YBarddCwsc said:
If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.kinabalu said:
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.
That certainly happened in Aberavon. Kinnock won the selection battle by one vote, having assured the Constituency Labour Party that rumours that his children were being privately educated were false.
It later emerged .. surprise, surprise .. that Kinnock's daughter was attending Atlantic College (fees 29 k).
He is a liar.
He is completely unrepresentative of Aberavon. My uncle ran a shop in Sandlands, one of the most deprived parts of the constituency, and indeed Wales. A London-bred multimillionaire (whose tax record has been questioned) is completely unsuitable for the constituency.
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The only way to do that is to get a vote for a deal.Scott_P said:0 -
Great. Let’s put every effort we have into leaving, and given Parliament’s collective disdain for the negotiated deal that is going to mean leaving without one and restarting the negotiations from outside the EU.Scott_P said:0 -
That is best not mentioned, but since you have. Grim situation indeed in Venezeula. An oil rich nation brought to its knees by endemic political corruption and economic mismanagement. Hyper inflation. Malnutrition rife. Mass exodus of desperate people from the country. And perhaps the worst aspect of all to what is a terrible crisis - an open goal for Tories to attack Jeremy and damage his election prospects here in the UK.Big_G_NorthWales said:As his hero did in Venezeula
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They are both Welsh, though, I believe.YBarddCwsc said:If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.
Does that not count for something?0 -
Big Falange rally in Madrid today. Hopefully the forces of democracy can hold firm against the fascists.0
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What does that mean, though? Wait until 72 hours before Brexit before doing what, if the deal hasn't passed the Commons? Asking for an extension?Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I said earlier the party seems to have agreed to remain united on the promise of a vote on the deal by the 27th Feb.Scott_P said:
It has been said this morning that TM will take it down to 72 hours before Brexit so as Fergie said 'squeaky bum time'0 -
Novara media headline later:rottenborough said:
Bastani: "Corbyn's good, but not quite as good as Blair"0 -
Bryant flipped his second home twice. He was one of the most egregious of the expenses troughers.kinabalu said:
They are both Welsh, though, I believe.YBarddCwsc said:If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.
Does that not count for something?
My objection to Kinnock is below. If you want London-bred multimillionaires in Parliament, let them represent London seats, not highly deprived Welsh ones. And let them not be liars.
Tbc, my objection is that Bryant has no connection to the Rhondda and Kinnock no connection to Aberavon. I would be happy for the Rhondda or Aberavon to be represented by anyone who lived there or has some reasonable connection with the places and their people. They don't have to be ethically Welsh.
Keir Hardie represented Merthyr Tydfil. He was not Welsh. But, he did understand what his constituents were going through.0 -
I am not a 'deep state' type of guy - except when meditating or after a vodka binge - but I do think there is much entrenched and powerful opposition in England to any sort of socialist agenda being enacted.daodao said:Unfortunately for Labour, it has too many such MPs. It is very tricky for the Labour to do the right thing, given the antagonism it faces from vested interests with hostile agendas.
Unless JC/JM were to win a landslide I suspect they would struggle to get much done.0 -
Oh to bring back the halcyon days of the 19th century when the working class knew our place.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kinabalu, your verb was correct. Your sentiment was not.
Socialism is a scourge of the working class. See Venezuela and the Soviet Union.
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You mean, that the electorate don't want that?kinabalu said:
... I do think there is much entrenched and powerful opposition in England to any sort of socialist agenda being enacted...daodao said:Unfortunately for Labour, it has too many such MPs. It is very tricky for the Labour to do the right thing, given the antagonism it faces from vested interests with hostile agendas.
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Damn right.SandyRentool said:
Oh to bring back the halcyon days of the 19th century when the working class knew our place.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kinabalu, your verb was correct. Your sentiment was not.
Socialism is a scourge of the working class. See Venezuela and the Soviet Union.
We ruled the world then, now the working class backed Brexit sees us begging the Faroe Islands for a trade deal.0 -
Or we could postpone it until a party has won an election with a mandate to implement a particular form of Brexit.Sandpit said:
Great. Let’s put every effort we have into leaving, and given Parliament’s collective disdain for the negotiated deal that is going to mean leaving without one and restarting the negotiations from outside the EU.Scott_P said:0 -
Is he not the son of Neil and Glenys Kinnock, both long term Labour activists? Born in Tredegar, admittedly schooled in London, due to his parents, working there, but at a comprehensive. And according to Wikipedia the Danish authorities, where his tax had been questioned, cleared him.YBarddCwsc said:
I strongly disapprove of very wealthy people with no previous connection to a constituency being parachuted in (whether it is Nick Boles in Grantham or the Carpetbaggers in the Welsh valleys).Roger said:
Welsh seats for the Welsh?YBarddCwsc said:
If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.kinabalu said:
Chris Leslie.TheJezziah said:Deselection is how it has to go to the ones needed, it isn't wide ranging.
Chuka.
Liz.
Wes Streeting.
Kinnock jnr.
Bryant.
There's 6 of the best for starters.
That certainly happened in Aberavon. Kinnock won the selection battle by one vote, having assured the Constituency Labour Party that rumours that his children were being privately educated were false.
It later emerged .. surprise, surprise .. that Kinnock's daughter was attending Atlantic College (fees 29 k).
He is a liar.
He is completely unrepresentative of Aberavon. My uncle ran a shop in Sandlands, one of the most deprived parts of the constituency, and indeed Wales. A London-bred multimillionaire (whose tax record has been questioned) is completely unsuitable for the constituency.
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Some of us have to live here through that, not just observe it from a distance.Sandpit said:
Great. Let’s put every effort we have into leaving, and given Parliament’s collective disdain for the negotiated deal that is going to mean leaving without one and restarting the negotiations from outside the EU.Scott_P said:0 -
The 'we' and 'us' to which you refer are not the representatives of the working class. Every so often they receive a bloody nose.TheScreamingEagles said:
Damn right.SandyRentool said:
Oh to bring back the halcyon days of the 19th century when the working class knew our place.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kinabalu, your verb was correct. Your sentiment was not.
Socialism is a scourge of the working class. See Venezuela and the Soviet Union.
We ruled the world then, now the working class backed Brexit sees us begging the Faroe Islands for a trade deal.0 -
David Owen, Robert Maclennan and John Cartwright.ydoethur said:
Only one beyond 1987. The answer to your second question is one as well - Clement Davies.OldKingCole said:
There are few, if any cases, from the last century of anyone successfully doing so. 28 Labour MP's defected to the SDP n the early 80's; how many held their seats?dots said:
They doubt they can break through on first past the post against established parties.Torby_Fennel said:I can completely understand the inertia of the "big name" moderate Labour backbench MPs - the former ministers and former shadow ministers. In their own minds they're still the next shadow cabinet in waiting and they, probably wrongly, believe they can get their party back. That and the fact that it's emotionally and psychologically very difficult to choose to leave any political party - a fact that people who are not members of political parties often fail to comprehend and it's why major splits in political parties are pretty rare.
How many National Liberal MP's were there after 1935 who were not, in effect, Conservatives.0 -
The Quasimodo wingMarqueeMark said:0 -
I have no idea where this is going but possiblyChris said:
What does that mean, though? Wait until 72 hours before Brexit before doing what, if the deal hasn't passed the Commons? Asking for an extension?Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I said earlier the party seems to have agreed to remain united on the promise of a vote on the deal by the 27th Feb.Scott_P said:
It has been said this morning that TM will take it down to 72 hours before Brexit so as Fergie said 'squeaky bum time'0 -
I rate Chuka very highly as a politician but the uncomfortable truth is that he is much closer to mainstream one nation conservatism than he is to the democratic socialist party that he nominally represents._Anazina_ said:There is literally zero chance of Chuka being deselected in Streatham, except in the wacko world of your own warped fantasies.
But, yes, I agree, there is no way that he will be deselected. He is popular in Streatham.
Is he up for some breakaway action? That is the question.0 -
Owen stood down in 1992 whilst Cartwright was defeated.0
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:-)Endillion said:You mean, that the electorate don't want that?
Well they are the first hoop to jump through.
But in the (IMO quite unlikely) event of success with this, my feeling is that unless it's a landslide there will subsequently be many more.
And to some extent that is how it should be. Socialism in Britain would be a radical and risky experiment. Just because the people vote for it does not mean it ought to get an easy ride.0 -
You have a very trusting nature, OKC.OldKingCole said:
Is he not the son of Neil and Glenys Kinnock, both long term Labour activists? Born in Tredegar, admittedly schooled in London, due to his parents, working there, but at a comprehensive. And according to Wikipedia the Danish authorities, where his tax had been questioned, cleared him.
Tredegar is not Aberavon. It is not even the same county.
The details of Stephen's tax affairs fall into the class of (legal) tax avoidance -- much like the affairs of many rich people. If you are happy with Richard Branson, Jeff Bezos and Philip Green, you'll be happy with Stephen Kinnock.
Here, for your benefit, is Kinnock's answer to the question about his daughter's education in 2014:
"It is highly misleading to say that our daughter attended a private school. It gives the impression that she was attending somewhere like Eton or Harrow, which is far from the truth and something we would never contemplated"
Actually, we know now that in 2013, she was attending fee-paying Atlantic College. (Morus, formerly of this parish, also attended I believe).
Kinnock -- like a true politician -- did not actually lie. He did not answer the question, and he certainly hid his daughter's private education from the selection committee. He basically deceived the selection committee.
Just like Blair deceived the nation. Small deceptions lead to big deceptions in politics.
And when the facts became known, Stephen, like a true politician, was able to discern some advantage:
"I have always been open about, and proud of, the fact that a vital part of Johanna’s education took place in Wales."
If Corby can clear Stephen Kinnock out, that is all to the good.0 -
George Brown was Acting Leader from Gaitskell's death on 18th January 1963 until Wilson's election on 14th February. Beckett was in office a little longer.ydoethur said:
George Brown was only leader for a very short time though. In fact, am I right in thinking he was the shortest serving leader of the Labour Party behind Beckett?Dura_Ace said:
If May and Corbyn somehow stagger on the 2022 then JC will have been Labour leader for longer than both G. Browns, Callaghan, Foot and E. Milliband. It's astonishing really. He and May deserve each other.JosiasJessop said:
I think Corbyn won't resign because he cares only about turning Labour into a hateful, inward-looking and sick party; and May won't because the Brexit job is incomplete, and there's no-one else who could do any better given the situation.0 -
I suppose the plan might be to pretend that she was going to No Deal (to encourage the sane MPs to back the Deal) or Revoke (to encourage the looney ones), while secretly planning to ask for an extension.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea where this is going but possiblyChris said:
What does that mean, though? Wait until 72 hours before Brexit before doing what, if the deal hasn't passed the Commons? Asking for an extension?Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I said earlier the party seems to have agreed to remain united on the promise of a vote on the deal by the 27th Feb.Scott_P said:
It has been said this morning that TM will take it down to 72 hours before Brexit so as Fergie said 'squeaky bum time'
But if the EU said no on 26 March (or later), she'd be hoist by her own petard.0 -
OK, I get you, and yes I totally agree. The link between the MP and his or her constituents is one of the biggest strengths of our way of doing politics. Carpetbaggers negate that.YBarddCwsc said:Bryant flipped his second home twice. He was one of the most egregious of the expenses troughers.
My objection to Kinnock is below. If you want London-bred multimillionaires in Parliament, let them represent London seats, not highly deprived Welsh ones. And let them not be liars.
Tbc, my objection is that Bryant has no connection to the Rhondda and Kinnock no connection to Aberavon. I would be happy for the Rhondda or Aberavon to be represented by anyone who lived there or has some reasonable connection with the places and their people. They don't have to be ethically Welsh.
Keir Hardie represented Merthyr Tydfil. He was not Welsh. But, he did understand what his constituents were going through.
BTW, I was going to correct your typo - 'ethically' Welsh - and then decided not to because I like it and it begs an interesting question.
Is there such a thing as a set of Welsh ethics that are distinct from and different to, say, English ethics?
First instinct is to say no. Ethics are universal.0 -
We all would beChris said:
I suppose the plan might be to pretend that she was going to No Deal (to encourage the sane MPs to back the Deal) or Revoke (to encourage the looney ones), while secretly planning to ask for an extension.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea where this is going but possiblyChris said:
What does that mean, though? Wait until 72 hours before Brexit before doing what, if the deal hasn't passed the Commons? Asking for an extension?Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I said earlier the party seems to have agreed to remain united on the promise of a vote on the deal by the 27th Feb.Scott_P said:
It has been said this morning that TM will take it down to 72 hours before Brexit so as Fergie said 'squeaky bum time'
But if the EU said no on 26 March (or later), she'd be hoist by her own petard.0 -
Many in the Welsh Labour movement had their ethics underpinned by Methodism. Maybe that made them different?kinabalu said:
OK, I get you, and yes I totally agree. The link between the MP and his or her constituents is one of the biggest strengths of our way of doing politics. Carpetbaggers negate that.YBarddCwsc said:Bryant flipped his second home twice. He was one of the most egregious of the expenses troughers.
My objection to Kinnock is below. If you want London-bred multimillionaires in Parliament, let them represent London seats, not highly deprived Welsh ones. And let them not be liars.
Tbc, my objection is that Bryant has no connection to the Rhondda and Kinnock no connection to Aberavon. I would be happy for the Rhondda or Aberavon to be represented by anyone who lived there or has some reasonable connection with the places and their people. They don't have to be ethically Welsh.
Keir Hardie represented Merthyr Tydfil. He was not Welsh. But, he did understand what his constituents were going through.
BTW, I was going to correct your typo - 'ethically' Welsh - and then decided not to because I like it and it begs an interesting question.
Is there such a thing as a set of Welsh ethics that are distinct from and different to, say, English ethics?
First instinct is to say no. Ethics are universal.0 -
Skim-read that as a big Farage rally in Madrid. Which would be a bit weird.SandyRentool said:Big Falange rally in Madrid today. Hopefully the forces of democracy can hold firm against the fascists.
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The 2017 manifesto was much less left wing or extreme than the manifestos of 1983 and 1974.DavidL said:On Labour splits I really don't think that even Owen Smith would have been daft enough to answer questions the way he did last week unless plans for a split are well developed and looking practical. There are a number who find the manifesto that they were re-elected on in 2017 just unbearable and think that being in the EU is such a part of their identity that being committed to implementing the vote is unacceptable.
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Well I would have smelt a rat immediately. Claiming credit for not sending his daughter to Eton or Harrow is a clear absurdity. His daughter, along with anybody else's daughter, lacks that certain something which (along with money) is de rigueur for getting in to either of those venerable institutions.YBarddCwsc said:Here, for your benefit, is Kinnock's answer to the question about his daughter's education in 2014:
"It is highly misleading to say that our daughter attended a private school. It gives the impression that she was attending somewhere like Eton or Harrow, which is far from the truth and something we would never contemplated"0 -
How representative was John Morris as MP for Aberavon?YBarddCwsc said:
Bryant flipped his second home twice. He was one of the most egregious of the expenses troughers.kinabalu said:
They are both Welsh, though, I believe.YBarddCwsc said:If they deselected Carpetbaggers Kinnock Jnr and Bryant -- I'd be voting Labour.
Does that not count for something?
My objection to Kinnock is below. If you want London-bred multimillionaires in Parliament, let them represent London seats, not highly deprived Welsh ones. And let them not be liars.
Tbc, my objection is that Bryant has no connection to the Rhondda and Kinnock no connection to Aberavon. I would be happy for the Rhondda or Aberavon to be represented by anyone who lived there or has some reasonable connection with the places and their people. They don't have to be ethically Welsh.
Keir Hardie represented Merthyr Tydfil. He was not Welsh. But, he did understand what his constituents were going through.0 -
Otoh Farage at a big Falange rally makes perfect sense (just don't mention Gibraltar, Nige).MarqueeMark said:
Skim-read that as a big Farage rally in Madrid. Which would be a bit weird.SandyRentool said:Big Falange rally in Madrid today. Hopefully the forces of democracy can hold firm against the fascists.
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I don't think I can agree with that. Ethics do vary geographically and temporally. They are based on a complex set of historical and societal pressures and I do believe it is wrong to say that, for example, some practices we now consider to be unethical, should be judged in the same way when looking at the past.kinabalu said:
OK, I get you, and yes I totally agree. The link between the MP and his or her constituents is one of the biggest strengths of our way of doing politics. Carpetbaggers negate that.YBarddCwsc said:Bryant flipped his second home twice. He was one of the most egregious of the expenses troughers.
My objection to Kinnock is below. If you want London-bred multimillionaires in Parliament, let them represent London seats, not highly deprived Welsh ones. And let them not be liars.
Tbc, my objection is that Bryant has no connection to the Rhondda and Kinnock no connection to Aberavon. I would be happy for the Rhondda or Aberavon to be represented by anyone who lived there or has some reasonable connection with the places and their people. They don't have to be ethically Welsh.
Keir Hardie represented Merthyr Tydfil. He was not Welsh. But, he did understand what his constituents were going through.
BTW, I was going to correct your typo - 'ethically' Welsh - and then decided not to because I like it and it begs an interesting question.
Is there such a thing as a set of Welsh ethics that are distinct from and different to, say, English ethics?
First instinct is to say no. Ethics are universal.0 -
Methodism is certainly something that I think of as Neil Kinnocky and Welsh, similarly Presbyterianism (gosh had to google that spelling) I think of as being Gordon Browny and Scottish. He was the 'Son of the Mance' after all.MarqueeMark said:Many in the Welsh Labour movement had their ethics underpinned by Methodism. Maybe that made them different?
But I don't know whether that is right. Perhaps these traditions are equally strong in parts of England.0 -
How does it work if the Commons instructs the government to “take no deal off the tsble@?
May scurries off to Brussels and comes back and days there is no deal other than The Deal that the government is proposed to recommend?
So the Parliament votes that she must revoke (I’m not sure there is s majority for that)
And May - knowing that it would break her party - makes it a vote of confidence in her government
Once again, I don’t think the Commons would bring down the government
So we end up withDeal or No Deal
At which point I think the Commons votes for the Deal.
What am I missing?0 -
And if it ever comes to pass very concerning.MarqueeMark said:Skim-read that as a big Farage rally in Madrid. Which would be a bit weird.
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I think Kinnock is a non-believer.kinabalu said:
Methodism is certainly something that I think of as Neil Kinnocky and Welsh, similarly Presbyterianism (gosh had to google that spelling) I think of as being Gordon Browny and Scottish. He was the 'Son of the Mance' after all.MarqueeMark said:Many in the Welsh Labour movement had their ethics underpinned by Methodism. Maybe that made them different?
But I don't know whether that is right. Perhaps these traditions are equally strong in parts of England.0 -
This is the idiocy of the whole question of voting to take No Deal off the table. Like the advisors wanting Canute to stop the tide coming in, Parliament would be asking May to do something that, at least under some circumstances, is not possible. If they want to make sure No Deal is off the table then they have to vote for Deal.Charles said:How does it work if the Commons instructs the government to “take no deal off the tsble@?
May scurries off to Brussels and comes back and days there is no deal other than The Deal that the government is proposed to recommend?
So the Parliament votes that she must revoke (I’m not sure there is s majority for that)
And May - knowing that it would break her party - makes it a vote of confidence in her government
Once again, I don’t think the Commons would bring down the government
So we end up withDeal or No Deal
At which point I think the Commons votes for the Deal.
What am I missing?0 -
May can't make a vote on anything a vote of confidence, other than a specific motion of confidence under the FTPA.Charles said:How does it work if the Commons instructs the government to “take no deal off the tsble@?
May scurries off to Brussels and comes back and days there is no deal other than The Deal that the government is proposed to recommend?
So the Parliament votes that she must revoke (I’m not sure there is s majority for that)
And May - knowing that it would break her party - makes it a vote of confidence in her government
Once again, I don’t think the Commons would bring down the government
So we end up withDeal or No Deal
At which point I think the Commons votes for the Deal.
What am I missing?
It is one of the reasons she should repeal FTPA.0
