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And if on the following day you sign a treaty to solve all the problems it creates, have you betrayed the will of the people?viewcode said:
On the contrary, it's very east to define. "To leave the European Union without a treaty signed and agreed by the UK Government and the European Council".williamglenn said:...No deal isn't easily definable, let alone implementable...
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It looks to me as if May and Corbyn are both intent on running down the clock.
May's is a big bluff. "Back my deal or we crash out." I can't see her doing that or being allowed to do that. She could add a referendum condition to her deal at the last minute and get the numbers. She could revoke at the very last minute. She could concede on customs union and call Corbyn's bluff as well as getting the DUP on side. But any of these risks splitting the Tory party.
Corbyn (and a small group around him) on the other hand would like a crash out that could be blamed on the Tories. It would help him get an overall majority and be out of the restrictions of the EU on his policies. The last thing he wants is a get out for May - so no second referendum, extra conditions if a custom union is conceded etc. Don't speak to May. Introduce more VONCs. Run the clock out. But he risks splitting the Labour party.
I think we won't leave on 29th March. A50 will be extended (or just possibly revoked 10% chance). A cross party group of "adult" MPs may emerge under Grieve with Bercow's help to take control. I still think a referendum on May's deal or Remain is the best way forward. Or just revoke and be done with it. Most people want it sorted. Only about 5% would burst a blood vessel if we revoked.
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Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian todayNickPalmer said:Note that the NumberCruncher poll is up to 9 days old and they say the recent sample was less favourable for the Tories:
"The fieldwork was carried out both before and after the vote on the withdrawal agreement, in roughly equal proportions, allowing us to examine whether the event affected support for the Conservatives. Our modelling suggests a high probability that Tory support was higher in the days before the vote than after it, although it is harder to be precise about how large or durable any impact will prove to be."
So like the other polls it basically means they're tied. But honestly it's a mug's game to get much out of the polls in the volatile situation. I think most people are just suspending judgment on Brexit and quoting their previous voting intention.0 -
So things are going well then. Good to see. What a relief!!Scott_P said:0 -
The funniest pun I've seen was "neon Nazis".Foxy said:
Does Putin have shares in High Vis vest manufacturing?williamglenn said:0 -
The Labour position appears to be dance on the head of a pin and try to only piss off a minimum of voters whilst avoiding tying themselves to a real position.NeilVW said:
What’s he going for?Jonathan said:Good to see Starmer going for it.
Simply re-stating Labour policy really, that a second ref remains an option. Different emphasis from Corbyn, but that was also the case at Labour conference.
Mind you , even they admit their actual policy is bollocks......0 -
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The one thing that would betray the democratically expressed will of the people is not leaving the EU.williamglenn said:
And if on the following day you sign a treaty to solve all the problems it creates, have you betrayed the will of the people?viewcode said:
On the contrary, it's very east to define. "To leave the European Union without a treaty signed and agreed by the UK Government and the European Council".williamglenn said:...No deal isn't easily definable, let alone implementable...
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For heaven's sake, she's already said she won't fight the next election (assuming it is not a snap one) and does anyone think she wouldn't go very very soon if a deal or no deal happens, why are Brexiteers potentially going to be swayed by a promise to go even earlier? It's unforgivable. And essentially no progress has been made at all, because the Tories are still splitting no matter which way they try to go. Pathetic.Scott_P said:0 -
Unknown. But you wanted a definition, so...williamglenn said:
And if on the following day you sign a treaty to solve all the problems it creates, have you betrayed the will of the people?viewcode said:
On the contrary, it's very east to define. "To leave the European Union without a treaty signed and agreed by the UK Government and the European Council".williamglenn said:...No deal isn't easily definable, let alone implementable...
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We're talking about 'no deal' as an explicit referendum option. When would a deal become a betrayal, given that we can't avoid dealing with the EU?steve_garner said:
The one thing that would betray the democratically expressed will of the people is not leaving the EU.williamglenn said:
And if on the following day you sign a treaty to solve all the problems it creates, have you betrayed the will of the people?viewcode said:
On the contrary, it's very east to define. "To leave the European Union without a treaty signed and agreed by the UK Government and the European Council".williamglenn said:...No deal isn't easily definable, let alone implementable...
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As said elsewhere, if the Deal is passed subject to confirmatory referendum (as proposed by Cable), there's nothing left for Parliament to do.glw said:
I agree, but I'd like to see some thought about what happens if we vote "wrong" again. The 2nd referendum crowd are playing with fire, they need to think very carefully about what happens after the vote.kle4 said:What if people did not understand or the nasty russians were involved again? Most people advocating a referendum do so on the basis people have changed their minds, meaning they support remain. Those people can hardly be assumed to take being wrong again well. Happily for them I don't think they are wrong.
Referendum passes it and May can sign on the dotted line; her Brexit achieved.
No further vote in Parliament. No tricks or votes available. Done.0 -
I think Grieve might have overplayed his hand.
We shall see.0 -
Sensible or not hardly matters if trying it causes Tory civil war and prevents anything anyway, which seems to be the case with any potential Plan B. The Tories, even in Cabinet, are ungovernable.Casino_Royale said:
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Exactly, either way a letter goes to Brussels and the matter is dealt with. Letter A contains the signed deal. Letter B contains the revocation of Article 50.Andy_Cooke said:
As said elsewhere, if the Deal is passed subject to confirmatory referendum (as proposed by Cable), there's nothing left for Parliament to do.glw said:
I agree, but I'd like to see some thought about what happens if we vote "wrong" again. The 2nd referendum crowd are playing with fire, they need to think very carefully about what happens after the vote.kle4 said:What if people did not understand or the nasty russians were involved again? Most people advocating a referendum do so on the basis people have changed their minds, meaning they support remain. Those people can hardly be assumed to take being wrong again well. Happily for them I don't think they are wrong.
Referendum passes it and May can sign on the dotted line; her Brexit achieved.
No further vote in Parliament. No tricks or votes available. Done.0 -
Who said anything about a deal being a betrayal? The 2016 Referendum was about a choice between Leave and Remain. I'm not aware of any other options. All I'm saying is that a Referendum in 2019 cannot be between May's Deal and Remain because there are other options e.g, No Deal. You can whataboutery all you like.williamglenn said:
We're talking about 'no deal' as an explicit referendum option. When would a deal become a betrayal, given that we can't avoid dealing with the EU?steve_garner said:
The one thing that would betray the democratically expressed will of the people is not leaving the EU.williamglenn said:
And if on the following day you sign a treaty to solve all the problems it creates, have you betrayed the will of the people?viewcode said:
On the contrary, it's very east to define. "To leave the European Union without a treaty signed and agreed by the UK Government and the European Council".williamglenn said:...No deal isn't easily definable, let alone implementable...
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We heard the 'May will go to save the deal' talk before Christmas. Could they at least come up with new lines?0
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I haven’t yet seen all of Starmer speech to the Fabians, haven’t found it yet but in this age it must be on net somewhere. But of what I have seen, it’s unrepresentative headline to take from it, though predictable one for the media right now. Starmer speech and message actually v similar to the one Steve Bannon wrote for Bozzy Bear a few days ago.NeilVW said:
What’s he going for?Jonathan said:Good to see Starmer going for it.
Simply re-stating Labour policy really, that a second ref remains an option. Different emphasis from Corbyn, but that was also the case at Labour conference.
Interesting the way post brexit battlefield is developing.0 -
You mean like AV was done by the 2011 referendum?Andy_Cooke said:
As said elsewhere, if the Deal is passed subject to confirmatory referendum (as proposed by Cable), there's nothing left for Parliament to do.glw said:
I agree, but I'd like to see some thought about what happens if we vote "wrong" again. The 2nd referendum crowd are playing with fire, they need to think very carefully about what happens after the vote.kle4 said:What if people did not understand or the nasty russians were involved again? Most people advocating a referendum do so on the basis people have changed their minds, meaning they support remain. Those people can hardly be assumed to take being wrong again well. Happily for them I don't think they are wrong.
Referendum passes it and May can sign on the dotted line; her Brexit achieved.
No further vote in Parliament. No tricks or votes available. Done.0 -
I hope Grieve gets thrown out the Conservative Party for his actions.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
He may well have overplayed. The idea that Corbyn and McDonnell could support any motion that gives MPs power over the Government is surely for the birds.Casino_Royale said:I think Grieve might have overplayed his hand.
We shall see.0 -
How much support does No Deal have according to opinion surveys?0
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Fuck off!Casino_Royale said:
Maybe you should calm down?Anazina said:
Worst PB meme ever! Four posts utterly wasted by this fucking inane, mundane, trite garbage.Floater said:2nd class - like Labour
This rant makes it five posts.
See what you have all done?
Many of your posts add little to this site except make it less pleasant for others.0 -
Fuck off!Casino_Royale said:
You don't get to decide what other posters say and do.Anazina said:
‘Internet’ shit, then. Somebody make it stop.kle4 said:
It's not a PB meme, it's an internet thing, why pretend otheerwise? One I don't engage in myself by the way. It's just that easy, just relax for christ's sake.Anazina said:
Worst PB meme ever! Four posts utterly wasted by this fucking inane, mundane, trite garbage.Floater said:2nd class - like Labour
This rant makes it five posts.
See what you have all done?
If you don't like it here, go somewhere else or get your own blog.0 -
Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.MarqueeMark said:
I hope Grieve gets thrown out the Conservative Party for his actions.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Before or after a VONC? What an almighty mess.MarqueeMark said:
I hope Grieve gets thrown out the Conservative Party for his actions.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
If May thought her resignation alone would get her deal through, she would have done it already.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I'm sure he won't be, there's too many rebels to deal with, but no matter how Tory he may be he prioritises stopping Brexit by any means necessary over his party, he should not feel aggrieved, as it were, if they were to suspend him or something - his view of the national interest is very different to his party's official, albeit confused, stance.steve_garner said:
Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.MarqueeMark said:
I hope Grieve gets thrown out the Conservative Party for his actions.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Is this some kind of meme?Anazina said:
Fuck off!Casino_Royale said:
You don't get to decide what other posters say and do.Anazina said:
‘Internet’ shit, then. Somebody make it stop.kle4 said:
It's not a PB meme, it's an internet thing, why pretend otheerwise? One I don't engage in myself by the way. It's just that easy, just relax for christ's sake.Anazina said:
Worst PB meme ever! Four posts utterly wasted by this fucking inane, mundane, trite garbage.Floater said:2nd class - like Labour
This rant makes it five posts.
See what you have all done?
If you don't like it here, go somewhere else or get your own blog. 0 -
"Duke of Hazard" - hat tip for that one!0
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That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:0 -
One thing he did say “what sort of democracy is it that doesn’t allow you to change your mind”.steve_garner said:
Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.MarqueeMark said:
I hope Grieve gets thrown out the Conservative Party for his actions.TheScreamingEagles said:
What do you make of that point?0 -
Although conspiring against a Tory-led government is pretty much compulsory for Conservative MPs these days...steve_garner said:Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.
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It has been reported they will vote it down as it could be used to stop their own programmessteve_garner said:
He may well have overplayed. The idea that Corbyn and McDonnell could support any motion that gives MPs power over the Government is surely for the birds.Casino_Royale said:I think Grieve might have overplayed his hand.
We shall see.0 -
40% think the UK should leave on 29th March, deal or no deal, which is a slightly different question. It includes those who prefer a deal in general but don't have a deal they like.AndyJS said:How much support does No Deal have according to opinion surveys?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/19/uk-voters-would-back-remain-in-eu-over-theresa-may-brexit-deal0 -
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We've reviewed what was said re polling on @bbcquestiontime. A YouGov poll published on the day of the programme suggested a lead for the Conservatives. Diane Abbott was also right that some other polls suggested Labour either as ahead or tied, & we should have made that clear.0 -
I dont think Grieve agreed with the 2017 Tory manifesto on Brexit at any point. If he did, his "change of mind" is truly Damascene. No, he's a shocking hypocrite.dots said:
One thing he did say “what sort of democracy is it that doesn’t allow you to change your mind”.steve_garner said:
Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.MarqueeMark said:
I hope Grieve gets thrown out the Conservative Party for his actions.TheScreamingEagles said:
What do you make of that point?0 -
https://labourlist.org/2019/01/a-public-vote-has-to-be-an-option-for-labour-keir-starmers-brexit-speech-at-fabian-conference/dots said:
I haven’t yet seen all of Starmer speech to the Fabians, haven’t found it yet but in this age it must be on net somewhere. But of what I have seen, it’s unrepresentative headline to take from it, though predictable one for the media right now. Starmer speech and message actually v similar to the one Steve Bannon wrote for Bozzy Bear a few days ago.NeilVW said:
What’s he going for?Jonathan said:Good to see Starmer going for it.
Simply re-stating Labour policy really, that a second ref remains an option. Different emphasis from Corbyn, but that was also the case at Labour conference.
Interesting the way post brexit battlefield is developing.
For your delectation.0 -
Surprisingly at 38% and as good as any other optionAndyJS said:How much support does No Deal have according to opinion surveys?
As I said earlier voters do not understand the details of the various deals but no deal attracts because of the perception we save £39 billion and give the EU a bloody nose0 -
His headline may be one thing, but does he attach any strings that means it’s not entirely backing May’s plan...Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
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Missing from Thread Header
Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 40% (+1)
CON: 37% (-2)
LDEM: 7% (+1)
UKIP: 7% (+1)
via @OpiniumResearch, 16 - 18 Jan
Chgs. w/ Dec0 -
Seems he and the DUP are working together with TM to coalesce around a deal. The DUP have been in Chequers this weekend with TMdots said:
His headline may be one thing, but does he attach any strings that means it’s not entirely backing May’s plan...Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
Of course if she gets those on board she is virtually there with approx 110 votes0 -
It seems to be between 35-40%.AndyJS said:How much support does No Deal have according to opinion surveys?
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Voting with conscience against a Tory led government is one thing. Grieve's actions go way beyond that.viewcode said:
Although conspiring against a Tory-led government is pretty much compulsory for Conservative MPs these days...steve_garner said:Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.
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About as popular as Labour.Casino_Royale said:
It seems to be between 35-40%.AndyJS said:How much support does No Deal have according to opinion surveys?
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Getting there on a vote is one thing, depending on what is agreed to get them there. The EU must be considered.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Seems he and the DUP are working together with TM to coalesce around a deal. The DUP have been in Chequers this weekend with TMdots said:
His headline may be one thing, but does he attach any strings that means it’s not entirely backing May’s plan...Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
Of course if she gets those on board she is virtually therevwith approx 110 votes0 -
I think he's starting to sniff out he might just be giving cover for the defeat of Brexit and is looking for a way out.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
It's probably too little too late though. A combination of no backstop, no £39bn and May going is pretty unlikely, and I'm not sure he can could put all of the ERG back in its box even if he wanted to.0 -
Knighthood?steve_garner said:
Voting with conscience against a Tory led government is one thing. Grieve's actions go way beyond that.viewcode said:
Although conspiring against a Tory-led government is pretty much compulsory for Conservative MPs these days...steve_garner said:Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.
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This approach is by far May's best chance of securing a majority for a deal. No cross party plan has any chance of success.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Seems he and the DUP are working together with TM to coalesce around a deal. The DUP have been in Chequers this weekend with TMdots said:
His headline may be one thing, but does he attach any strings that means it’s not entirely backing May’s plan...Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
Of course if she gets those on board she is virtually therevwith approx 110 votes0 -
He said that if Brexit is threatened in any way he will back TM dealCasino_Royale said:
I think he's starting to sniff out he might just be giving cover for the defeat of Brexit and is looking for a way out.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
It's probably too little too late though. A combination of no backstop, no £39bn and May going is pretty unlikely, and I'm not sure he can could put all of the ERG back in its box even if he wanted to.0 -
Yes of coursekle4 said:
Getting there on a vote is one thing, depending on what is agreed to get them there. The EU must be considered.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Seems he and the DUP are working together with TM to coalesce around a deal. The DUP have been in Chequers this weekend with TMdots said:
His headline may be one thing, but does he attach any strings that means it’s not entirely backing May’s plan...Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
Of course if she gets those on board she is virtually therevwith approx 110 votes0 -
The cult will still believe jezza is doing everything to stop brexit. I imagine even if a photo leaked of his ballot showing he votes leave they would claim it was all a hoax.Scott_P said:0 -
https://twitter.com/frasermatthew/status/1086186323499761664?s=21
Time Flies. Wonder where we will be in two years hence.0 -
Seventh. Like the Governors and the Circleswilliamglenn said:
Is this some kind of meme?Anazina said:
Fuck off!Casino_Royale said:
You don't get to decide what other posters say and do.Anazina said:
‘Internet’ shit, then. Somebody make it stop.kle4 said:
It's not a PB meme, it's an internet thing, why pretend otheerwise? One I don't engage in myself by the way. It's just that easy, just relax for christ's sake.Anazina said:
Worst PB meme ever! Four posts utterly wasted by this fucking inane, mundane, trite garbage.Floater said:2nd class - like Labour
This rant makes it five posts.
See what you have all done?
If you don't like it here, go somewhere else or get your own blog.0 -
I said almost exactly the same today. She could not trust the opposition but if she can get something through the DUP then the ERG would follow.steve_garner said:
This approach is by far May's best chance of securing a majority for a deal. No cross party plan has any chance of success.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Seems he and the DUP are working together with TM to coalesce around a deal. The DUP have been in Chequers this weekend with TMdots said:
His headline may be one thing, but does he attach any strings that means it’s not entirely backing May’s plan...Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
Of course if she gets those on board she is virtually therevwith approx 110 votes0 -
Yes, I was trying to make the point that saying the same thing over and over again is dull. I’m now caught in the spam trapper so have appeared as yet another alter ego!kle4 said:
Sorry if I offended anyone. And sorry for my bad language!!0 -
I think somebody needs to go and calm down by watching a rerun of Radiohead live at Glastonbury, accompanied by a Hawaiian pizza and a glass of wine from a box....Anazina said:
Fuck off!Casino_Royale said:
Maybe you should calm down?Anazina said:
Worst PB meme ever! Four posts utterly wasted by this fucking inane, mundane, trite garbage.Floater said:2nd class - like Labour
This rant makes it five posts.
See what you have all done?
Many of your posts add little to this site except make it less pleasant for others.0 -
Good for you and I suppose welcome to our new poster is in order. All the bestTheFirstBoyScout said:
Yes, I was trying to make the point that saying the same thing over and over again is dull. I’m now caught in the spam trapper so have appeared as yet another alter ego!kle4 said:
Sorry if I offended anyone. And sorry for my bad language!!0 -
Jean Claude Junker appointed 'Commissar' of the fallen state of the disunited kingdom, which recently begged the benevolent European Union to take on all executive and legislative authority after the second year of Brexit wars.Jonathan said:https://twitter.com/frasermatthew/status/1086186323499761664?s=21
Time Flies. Wonder where we will be in two years hence.0 -
Yes, I find it hard to see what’s changed here. Maybe I am missing something.kle4 said:
For heaven's sake, she's already said she won't fight the next election (assuming it is not a snap one) and does anyone think she wouldn't go very very soon if a deal or no deal happens, why are Brexiteers potentially going to be swayed by a promise to go even earlier? It's unforgivable. And essentially no progress has been made at all, because the Tories are still splitting no matter which way they try to go. Pathetic.Scott_P said:0 -
You have had more screen names than grant shapps.TheFirstBoyScout said:
Yes, I was trying to make the point that saying the same thing over and over again is dull. I’m now caught in the spam trapper so have appeared as yet another alter ego!kle4 said:
Sorry if I offended anyone. And sorry for my bad language!!0 -
Funny, he didn't believe it was threatened before, why does he believe it now? Nothing has changed other than the MV, but the outcome to that was not a change really, since we knew it would happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He said that if Brexit is threatened in any way he will back TM dealCasino_Royale said:
I think he's starting to sniff out he might just be giving cover for the defeat of Brexit and is looking for a way out.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
It's probably too little too late though. A combination of no backstop, no £39bn and May going is pretty unlikely, and I'm not sure he can could put all of the ERG back in its box even if he wanted to.0 -
My honest answer is I do not know but maybe reality is dawning over the wreckage of brexitkle4 said:
Funny, he didn't believe it was threatened before, why does he believe it now? Nothing has changed other than the MV, but the outcome to that was not a change really, since we knew it would happen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He said that if Brexit is threatened in any way he will back TM dealCasino_Royale said:
I think he's starting to sniff out he might just be giving cover for the defeat of Brexit and is looking for a way out.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is fleshing out more detail from JRM 's comments I reported from the mail this morningScott_P said:
It's probably too little too late though. A combination of no backstop, no £39bn and May going is pretty unlikely, and I'm not sure he can could put all of the ERG back in its box even if he wanted to.0 -
Lol!FrancisUrquhart said:
You have had more screen names than grant shapps.TheFirstBoyScout said:
Yes, I was trying to make the point that saying the same thing over and over again is dull. I’m now caught in the spam trapper so have appeared as yet another alter ego!kle4 said:
Sorry if I offended anyone. And sorry for my bad language!!0 -
Ha, thanks. I clearly went over the top and got snared in the spam mechanism.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good for you and I suppose welcome to our new poster is in order. All the bestTheFirstBoyScout said:
Yes, I was trying to make the point that saying the same thing over and over again is dull. I’m now caught in the spam trapper so have appeared as yet another alter ego!kle4 said:
Sorry if I offended anyone. And sorry for my bad language!!0 -
May
Ex Pm and Strictly champion Theresa Du Beke to launch political comeback as leader of pro Euro party Nothing has Changed Movement.kle4 said:
Jean Claude Junker appointed 'Commissar' of the fallen state of the disunited kingdom, which recently begged the benevolent European Union to take on all executive and legislative authority after the second year of Brexit wars.Jonathan said:https://twitter.com/frasermatthew/status/1086186323499761664?s=21
Time Flies. Wonder where we will be in two years hence.0 -
That is very goodJonathan said:May
Ex Pm and Strictly champion Theresa Du Beke to launch political comeback as leader of pro Euro party Nothing has Changed Movement.kle4 said:
Jean Claude Junker appointed 'Commissar' of the fallen state of the disunited kingdom, which recently begged the benevolent European Union to take on all executive and legislative authority after the second year of Brexit wars.Jonathan said:https://twitter.com/frasermatthew/status/1086186323499761664?s=21
Time Flies. Wonder where we will be in two years hence.0 -
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.0 -
That is the tragedy of the situation. Apart from a handful of northern lefties, most of the Corbynistas are europhile poshos based down here. Yet, they are willfully blind to Corbo’s nefarious acts.FrancisUrquhart said:
The cult will still believe jezza is doing everything to stop brexit. I imagine even if a photo leaked of his ballot showing he votes leave they would claim it was all a hoax.Scott_P said:0 -
I see people vote is paying for promoted tweets linking to reports based on polling they paid for. They aren’t half spending some dosh.0
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Come now petal (channeling @Big_G_NorthWales ) we try to be polite to each other on this website.Anazina said:
Fuck off!Omnium said:
It’s not nice to tell people to “go away” in that tone0 -
I did notice when Grieve was on Newsnight in the week he seemed less sure of himself than usual.Casino_Royale said:I think Grieve might have overplayed his hand.
We shall see.
When they kept trying to pin him down on stopping "No Deal" and Parliament forcing a second referendum he seemed to be coming out with a load waffle but little substance...0 -
To be honest that is her aim and I do not expect her to allow no deal in the end.NickPalmer said:
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.
But right now, and for the next several weeks, it is the only real outcome to concentrate EU minds0 -
Observer
The speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, is considering abandoning his plans to step down this summer after cabinet ministers threatened to deny him a peerage because of his alleged “bias” against the government over Brexit.
He ain’t ever going to leave.0 -
I haven’t read her piece but your point about negotiation is spot on. I was speaking to a work friend, a client, last week. I said, “In what sort of negotiation do you go in point-blank refusing to give any ground?” Negotiation is about give and take. Some concession is almost always necessary to get a deal.NickPalmer said:
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.0 -
Look at Putin's boast top right.kle4 said:
Jean Claude Junker appointed 'Commissar' of the fallen state of the disunited kingdom, which recently begged the benevolent European Union to take on all executive and legislative authority after the second year of Brexit wars.Jonathan said:https://twitter.com/frasermatthew/status/1086186323499761664?s=21
Time Flies. Wonder where we will be in two years hence.
Seriously....... They used to claim their military was world beating.0 -
Also “offered to examine the timetable” sounds like “filed in the circular filing cabinet”glw said:
Are any of the advocates considering the Doomsday scenario of what happens if/when Leave wins again? Unless Parliament is willing to carry out any outcome of the various proposed referendum questions there really is no point in calling another. If Parliament refused to go through with Leave after a 2nd referendum that would be the end of any pretence that we are a democracy, and God knows that idea is already wearing thin.IanB2 said:Cabinet ministers involved in cross-party talks on how to break the Brexit deadlock have given the first indication that they are prepared to examine plans for a potential second referendum on the UK’s departure from the EU, according to the Liberal Democrat leader, Sir Vince Cable.
The offer to examine a possible timetable for a second vote drawn up by the Lib Dems was made during discussions between senior Liberal Democrats and two cabinet ministers involved in the talks, Michael Gove and David Lidington, in the Cabinet Office on Thursday morning.0 -
Nah, the key is to just put an asterisk in f*ck.Charles said:
Come now petal (channeling @Big_G_NorthWales ) we try to be polite to each other on this website.Anazina said:
Fuck off!Omnium said:
It’s not nice to tell people to “go away” in that tone0 -
It's not going to end well for him.FrancisUrquhart said:Observer
The speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, is considering abandoning his plans to step down this summer after cabinet ministers threatened to deny him a peerage because of his alleged “bias” against the government over Brexit.
He ain’t ever going to leave.
As soon as Brexit is resolved one way or another Labour will want him out IMO. When Labour decide enough is enough it'll be over.0 -
I’ve apologised. I was trying to point out the misery of repetition, but got snared by the spam trap. Apologies again - no offence intended.Charles said:
Come now petal (channeling @Big_G_NorthWales ) we try to be polite to each other on this website.Anazina said:
Fuck off!Omnium said:
It’s not nice to tell people to “go away” in that tone0 -
Amazing how some bullies seem to avoid their due punishment.FrancisUrquhart said:Observer
The speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, is considering abandoning his plans to step down this summer after cabinet ministers threatened to deny him a peerage because of his alleged “bias” against the government over Brexit.
He ain’t ever going to leave.
If they stuck to the line that until the bullying allegations are properly investigated, there can be no consideration given to a post-Speakership honour, that might focus a few minds...0 -
You obviously weren’t talking to Nancy pelosi.....TheFirstBoyScout said:
I haven’t read her piece but your point about negotiation is spot on. I was speaking to a work friend, a client, last week. I said, “In what sort of negotiation do you go in point-blank refusing to give any ground?” Negotiation is about give and take. Some concession is almost always necessary to get a deal.NickPalmer said:
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.
Pelosi rejects Trump shutdown deal before president announces it
It is normally a good idea to wait for the person to at least tell you what the deal is before you do an Eric cartman.0 -
Thank you 😊ralphmalph said:
https://labourlist.org/2019/01/a-public-vote-has-to-be-an-option-for-labour-keir-starmers-brexit-speech-at-fabian-conference/dots said:
I haven’t yet seen all of Starmer speech to the Fabians, haven’t found it yet but in this age it must be on net somewhere. But of what I have seen, it’s unrepresentative headline to take from it, though predictable one for the media right now. Starmer speech and message actually v similar to the one Steve Bannon wrote for Bozzy Bear a few days ago.NeilVW said:
What’s he going for?Jonathan said:Good to see Starmer going for it.
Simply re-stating Labour policy really, that a second ref remains an option. Different emphasis from Corbyn, but that was also the case at Labour conference.
Interesting the way post brexit battlefield is developing.
For your delectation.
I was wrong. 😒. Precious little post Brexit Battleground compared to Bozzy Bears speech.
the debate on Brexit has too often been narrow and process-driven. Endless discussion about parliamentary process and the institutions of the EU but little on how we tackle the causes of the referendum result. The need to tackle inequality, low pay, a broken housing market and the growing dislocation between our political system and the people who elect us.
From this point the rest of it is just him droning on about brexit process, narrow to what he claims is Labour Policy.
Conclusion - Tories can steal a march on opposition here.0 -
So May’s Plan B includes the idea of a bilateral treaty with Ireland to guarantee no hard border and therefore obviate the backstop, according to the Sunday Times. Not a lot of detail.
This was one poll that came out tonight, quite amusing really in a black humour sense:AndyJS said:How much support does No Deal have according to opinion surveys?
Scott_P said:0 -
If TM resigns in May after she manages to get her deal through with some compromise from the EU / Ireland to pacify DUP and ERG what’s to stop the next Tory leader (probably a leaver) from falling out with EU over future trade deal and cancelling WA and going WTO until EU come to table with a worthwhile offerBig_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest that is her aim and I do not expect her to allow no deal in the end.NickPalmer said:
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.
But right now, and for the next several weeks, it is the only real outcome to concentrate EU minds
0 -
FrancisUrquhart said:
Observer
The speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, is considering abandoning his plans to step down this summer after cabinet ministers threatened to deny him a peerage because of his alleged “bias” against the government over Brexit.
He ain’t ever going to leave.
I think he is a good speaker. Witty and commanding. I still don’t see why he is so loathed. I understand there are various allegations about him however so will reserve judgment.
Yes I agree with that. She should speak to him of course.FrancisUrquhart said:
You obviously weren’t talking to Nancy pelosi.....TheFirstBoyScout said:
I haven’t read her piece but your point about negotiation is spot on. I was speaking to a work friend, a client, last week. I said, “In what sort of negotiation do you go in point-blank refusing to give any ground?” Negotiation is about give and take. Some concession is almost always necessary to get a deal.NickPalmer said:
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.
Pelosi rejects Trump shutdown deal before president announces it
It is normally a good idea to wait for the person to at least tell you what the deal is before you do an Eric cartman.
0 -
The Palace says they’ve spoken to both of them.TheScreamingEagles said:
But, as any ful knows, the Monarch (and by extension the Consort) never apologise.0 -
It’s time to ride the gnu!NeilVW said:So May’s Plan B includes the idea of a bilateral treaty with Ireland to guarantee no hard border and therefore obviate the backstop, according to the Sunday Times. Not a lot of detail.
This was one poll that came out tonight, quite amusing really in a black humour sense:AndyJS said:How much support does No Deal have according to opinion surveys?
Scott_P said:
0 -
Presumably nothing, but pulling out of an agreement already signed is surely harder than resisting signing it in the first place. The EU would also presumably be livid at such a move and be far from inclined to come back to the table. One reason people have resisted the WA so much is because they fear it will set the future direction too much, I think it is fair to think if it ever does get agreed it will proceed.kjohnw said:
If TM resigns in May after she manages to get her deal through with some compromise from the EU / Ireland to pacify DUP and ERG what’s to stop the next Tory leader (probably a leaver) from falling out with EU over future trade deal and cancelling WA and going WTO until EU come to table with a worthwhile offerBig_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest that is her aim and I do not expect her to allow no deal in the end.NickPalmer said:
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.
But right now, and for the next several weeks, it is the only real outcome to concentrate EU minds
I never thought May would last much beyond March, assuming a deal could be agreed, and it'd be reasonable for her to stand aside and let someone else try to handle the next phase. That leader will probably be destroyed by that next phase too, but Brexit is rough like that.
0 -
Why is that?Charles said:
The Palace says they’ve spoken to both of them.TheScreamingEagles said:
But, as any ful knows, the Monarch (and by extension the Consort) never apologise.0 -
Really? Why not? That is an utterly ridiculous protocol if true.Charles said:
The Palace says they’ve spoken to both of them.TheScreamingEagles said:
But, as any ful knows, the Monarch (and by extension the Consort) never apologise.0 -
I think it is quite possible but not while the WDA is in force as it is an international treatykjohnw said:
If TM resigns in May after she manages to get her deal through with some compromise from the EU / Ireland to pacify DUP and ERG what’s to stop the next Tory leader (probably a leaver) from falling out with EU over future trade deal and cancelling WA and going WTO until EU come to table with a worthwhile offerBig_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest that is her aim and I do not expect her to allow no deal in the end.NickPalmer said:
No, I didn't, but after your prompt I have now - thanks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good evening Nick - did you read Caroline Flints article in the guardian today
Temperamentally I agree with it - jaw-jaw is better than war-war in moments of crisis. But I don't think we can negotiate on the basis of the May deal being unchangeable (including the future political agreement, i.e. the customs union etc.). If TM is serious about negotiating she needs to agree that all options that avoid No Deal will be explored.
But right now, and for the next several weeks, it is the only real outcome to concentrate EU minds0 -
At least I think Paul had an excuse. Did he not tell the Romans he was on drugs?steve_garner said:
I dont think Grieve agreed with the 2017 Tory manifesto on Brexit at any point. If he did, his "change of mind" is truly Damascene. No, he's a shocking hypocrite.dots said:
One thing he did say “what sort of democracy is it that doesn’t allow you to change your mind”.steve_garner said:
Grieve should be thrown out. He's overtly conspiring against a Tory led government and his hypocrisy given the manifesto on which he stood for election as a Tory MP is nauseating.MarqueeMark said:
I hope Grieve gets thrown out the Conservative Party for his actions.TheScreamingEagles said:
What do you make of that point?0
This discussion has been closed.