politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As the Tory Brexit crisis continues Corbyn’s “Best PM” ratings
Comments
-
Re Citizens Assembly. What a good idea. Local areas could each choose a representative by each person having one "vote" and send them somewhere, probably to London, (would need a large building). There they could debate Brexit and vote about the outcome. I'm sure they'd reach a consensus. After a successful parlaying, maybe we could make it permanent, choosing people every few years. I suggest, at most five. Maybe it could decide other things like, oh I don't know, changes to the Law, or how much taxes we pay? This could be a way of deciding things without relying on a Monarch, or just who had the most money, land or physical strength.
Maybe it will catch on. Mmm, what to call it though?0 -
I would let them select the location for a decent meal though....Beverley_C said:
I would not let PB's commenters run a dog pound, never mind set the country's political direction.tlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.0 -
I wonder whether there was any definite news driving it. The pound still seems to be rising, so I doubt it's what you say.MarqueeMark said:
Cold, hard realisation that No Deal Brexit is unstoppable?Chris said:I see Betfair's implied probability of leaving on schedule has moved back up from about 15% earlier to more than 20% now.
Has anything happened to justify that?0 -
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?0 -
dixiedean said:
Re Citizens Assembly. What a good idea. Local areas could each choose a representative by each person having one "vote" and send them somewhere, probably to London, (would need a large building). There they could debate Brexit and vote about the outcome. I'm sure they'd reach a consensus. After a successful parlaying, maybe we could make it permanent, choosing people every few years. I suggest, at most five. Maybe it could decide other things like, oh I don't know, changes to the Law, or how much taxes we pay? This could be a way of deciding things without relying on a Monarch, or just who had the most money, land or physical strength.
Maybe it will catch on. Mmm, what to call it though?
A bunch of mindless jerks who'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes?0 -
Och, you're both entertaining, just in v. different waysgrabcocque said:
Tim and I used to argue ferociously all the time (I used to post under my real name back then, before my John Prescott incident). I could never begin to achieve his levels of masterful irritancy. He soared like an eagle.Theuniondivvie said:
I may flatter myself that I have a decent eye for writing styles, but GC really isn't Tim.ydoethur said:
With Tim, the clue is in his new username.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
0 -
As I understand it the focus of a CA would be on the process and how the matter should be decided; they wouldn't have the decision itself, which stays with Parliamentkle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?0 -
Rory the Tory vs Diane Abbott on QT this evening. I won't be watching.0
-
I'm sure OGH or TSE will be able to confirm I am not Tim.Theuniondivvie said:
Och, you're both entertaining, just in v. different waysgrabcocque said:
Tim and I used to argue ferociously all the time (I used to post under my real name back then, before my John Prescott incident). I could never begin to achieve his levels of masterful irritancy. He soared like an eagle.Theuniondivvie said:
I may flatter myself that I have a decent eye for writing styles, but GC really isn't Tim.ydoethur said:
With Tim, the clue is in his new username.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"0 -
Nevertheless, why would a CA be better at coming up with process, and why should it have the authority to decide on it, when we already have a body to do that? If one body is failing to do what it is supposed to, you fix that, you don't create a brand new one.IanB2 said:
As I understand it the focus of a CA would be on the process and how the matter should be decided; they wouldn't have the decision itself, which stays with Parliamentkle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?
0 -
The only reason for the PM to give the CA even a moment's consideration is that it could eat up another month towards 29th March.IanB2 said:
As I understand it the focus of a CA would be on the process and how the matter should be decided; they wouldn't have the decision itself, which stays with Parliamentkle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?0 -
Yes, my trades on the £ are looking good with only one position left in the red. I doubt this is because currency markets think a no deal Brexit more likely.Chris said:
I wonder whether there was any definite news driving it. The pound still seems to be rising, so I doubt it's what you say.MarqueeMark said:
Cold, hard realisation that No Deal Brexit is unstoppable?Chris said:I see Betfair's implied probability of leaving on schedule has moved back up from about 15% earlier to more than 20% now.
Has anything happened to justify that?0 -
Just remember, no matter how bad things get, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WATCH QUESTION TIME.0
-
-
It couldn't be done without more timeMarqueeMark said:
The only reason for the PM to give the CA even a moment's consideration is that it could eat up another month towards 29th March.IanB2 said:
As I understand it the focus of a CA would be on the process and how the matter should be decided; they wouldn't have the decision itself, which stays with Parliamentkle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?0 -
Citizen's Assemblies are meant to fix the issue of low-information voters, but the problem facing us is really low-information politicians.kle4 said:
Nevertheless, why would a CA be better at coming up with process, and why should it have the authority to decide on it, when we already have a body to do that? If one body is failing to do what it is supposed to, you fix that, you don't create a brand new one.0 -
I don't think it would have authority, per se. The answers to your other questions are downthread.kle4 said:
Nevertheless, why would a CA be better at coming up with process, and why should it have the authority to decide on it, when we already have a body to do that? If one body is failing to do what it is supposed to, you fix that, you don't create a brand new one.IanB2 said:
As I understand it the focus of a CA would be on the process and how the matter should be decided; they wouldn't have the decision itself, which stays with Parliamentkle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?0 -
Gordo....as popular as ever.Scott_P said:0 -
Wow, maybe you are actually Tim's nemesis George Osborne.grabcocque said:
I'm sure OGH or TSE will be able to confirm I am not Tim.Theuniondivvie said:
Och, you're both entertaining, just in v. different waysgrabcocque said:
Tim and I used to argue ferociously all the time (I used to post under my real name back then, before my John Prescott incident). I could never begin to achieve his levels of masterful irritancy. He soared like an eagle.Theuniondivvie said:
I may flatter myself that I have a decent eye for writing styles, but GC really isn't Tim.ydoethur said:
With Tim, the clue is in his new username.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"0 -
I never do. I gave up in disgust five or six years ago. Dianne Abbot was still on the TW couch back then as well...grabcocque said:Just remember, no matter how bad things get, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WATCH QUESTION TIME.
0 -
But Rory the Tory is on.grabcocque said:Just remember, no matter how bad things get, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WATCH QUESTION TIME.
0 -
There are some exceptions......Beverley_C said:
I would not let PB's commenters run a dog pound, never mind set the country's political direction.tlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.0 -
For the first time my Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver text after the vonc last night to ask what on earth is going on in the UK. She has not asked about brexit beforeMarqueeMark said:
We still are spared fucking ukelele muzak in every public space though....Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
I told her we were having a collective nervous breakdown and there is no obvious answer0 -
That is a quite beautiful photo.Scott_P said:0 -
I think it's the Carnegie HallAlastairMeeks said:That is a quite beautiful photo.
0 -
I can confirm too!grabcocque said:
I'm sure OGH or TSE will be able to confirm I am not Tim.Theuniondivvie said:
Och, you're both entertaining, just in v. different waysgrabcocque said:
Tim and I used to argue ferociously all the time (I used to post under my real name back then, before my John Prescott incident). I could never begin to achieve his levels of masterful irritancy. He soared like an eagle.Theuniondivvie said:
I may flatter myself that I have a decent eye for writing styles, but GC really isn't Tim.ydoethur said:
With Tim, the clue is in his new username.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"0 -
Conference call with the US today they wanted to know what was going on.Big_G_NorthWales said:For the first time my Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver text after the vonc last night to ask what on earth is going on in the UK. She has not asked about brexit before
I told her we were having a collective nervous breakdown and there is no obvious answer
Even with their own Trump dumpster fire0 -
Just tell her Corbyn crashed the country into Phil the Greek's Range Rover, it sort of summarises today's news.Big_G_NorthWales said:
For the first time my Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver text after the vonc last night to ask what on earth is going on in the UK. She has not asked about brexit beforeMarqueeMark said:
We still are spared fucking ukelele muzak in every public space though....Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
I told her we were having a collective nervous breakdown and there is no obvious answer0 -
I thought that was bully-boy Bercow's job?IanB2 said:
As I understand it the focus of a CA would be on the process and how the matter should be decided; they wouldn't have the decision itself, which stays with Parliamentkle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?0 -
You’re being much too hard on yourself.Beverley_C said:
I would not let PB's commenters run a dog pound, never mind set the country's political direction.tlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.0 -
Would that include your good self?Beverley_C said:
I would not let PB's commenters run a dog poundtlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.
0 -
Indeed. A great shot.AlastairMeeks said:
That is a quite beautiful photo.Scott_P said:-1 -
No, YOU clearly don't understand percentages.IanB2 said:
You don't understand percentages, do you?MarqueeMark said:
Cold, hard realisation that No Deal Brexit is unstoppable?Chris said:I see Betfair's implied probability of leaving on schedule has moved back up from about 15% earlier to more than 20% now.
Has anything happened to justify that?
Was 15% chance we leave on time, now 20% chance we leave on time. 20% is the bigger number, indicating more likely we leave on time. Because punters realise MPs are such tossers, they can't STOP us leaving on time.
OK, one last time. 15% is small, but the 20% is far away....
0 -
At least we don't have a Shutdown with thousands of government employees held hostage by Donald Jerk Trump.Scott_P said:
Conference call with the US today they wanted to know what was going on.Big_G_NorthWales said:For the first time my Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver text after the vonc last night to ask what on earth is going on in the UK. She has not asked about brexit before
I told her we were having a collective nervous breakdown and there is no obvious answer
Even with their own Trump dumpster fire0 -
I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?0 -
Oh dear.Mexicanpete said:Just tell her Corbyn crashed the country into Phil the Greek's Range Rover, it sort of summarises today's news.
Sky News called it a Range Rover too, but the picture is a Freelander...0 -
Absolutely!!!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Would that include your good self?Beverley_C said:
I would not let PB's commenters run a dog poundtlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.0 -
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?0 -
Grabcoque
You are/were both top class posters.
I must admit though the Prezza reference has gone over my head!0 -
Casino_Royale said:
You’re being much too hard on yourself.Beverley_C said:
I would not let PB's commenters run a dog pound, never mind set the country's political direction.tlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument. 0 -
Not the same guy.ydoethur said:
With Tim, the clue is in his new username.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"0 -
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
0 -
Just tell her that after centuries of being famed for our "stiff upper lip", we are getting it out of our system in one manic burst....Big_G_NorthWales said:
For the first time my Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver text after the vonc last night to ask what on earth is going on in the UK. She has not asked about brexit beforeMarqueeMark said:
We still are spared fucking ukelele muzak in every public space though....Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
I told her we were having a collective nervous breakdown and there is no obvious answer0 -
My late Mother used to say 'patience is a virtue'Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
I think a lot of us need to remember that, even though time is short
0 -
The people told them what to do and parliament has already legislated for it. It got its shit sufficiently together. Sending it back to the people is a means of undoing that.Scott_P said:Two thoughts on "another" vote
Those who say it betrays Leave voters. You do realise they get to vote again, right?
Those who say May's deal can't be on the ballot after Parliament rejected it. That's the whole fucking point. Parliament can't get their shit together. That's why it goes back to the people. What the Parliamentarians thought at that point is completely irrelevant.0 -
She may have to blur her linesMarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?0 -
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?0 -
Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.0 -
I can live with all that.FrancisUrquhart said:
Even worse idea...we would get far too bogged down in if Die Hard is a Christmas movie, how bad radiohead live really is and can boxed wine ever be ok...tlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.
As long as we avoid debates over which airline offers the best First Class lounge, and who can come up with the most falsely modest nickname for Oxbridge.0 -
Gordo’s citizens’ assemblies and A50 extension is possibly the best option so far amid a rum bunch.0
-
Most of the world is not interested in us. They have their own problems.kle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?0 -
Trolling via ballot paper. I guess I could vote UKIP next time just for shit and giggles?Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.0 -
Sean_F said:
An intelligent poster would ask himself the more interesting question: why a majority of the electorate on a high turnout voted that it had no confidence in a political and economic union we’d been in for over 40 years, and what it might have done and how it might have acted to have led to such an astonishing result.AlastairMeeks said:
Provincial England and Wales, whether Tory Shire or Labour heartland, mostly voted Leave. Centres of government, academia, and finance voted Remain.Alanbrooke said:
There you go again, using the poor as human shields. Look at the Leave vote in the Tory shires. Their decision to put shrivelled hearts over heads was the key difference and provided what passes for the intellectual leadership of the whole campaign.AlastairMeeks said:
Now youre just off on one, Places like Stoke, Redcar, Nuneaton, the Welsh valleys are not natural golf club country. There was a surprising consensus across the social spectrum in my area on why they were voting.Alanbrooke said:
The referendum was won in the Tory shires not the hard scrabble wastelands. It was the collective decision of affluent reactionaries to put prejudice ahead of pragmatism that won it.AlastairMeeks said:
Now youre simply showing your prejudices rather than any understanding of why people voted leave. As an observation let them eat cake tends not to end well.Alanbrooke said:
The vote was won because the cohort of appalling golf club real interest to them.AlastairMeeks said:
Not at all. The remain pitch was based on telling people with nothing to loset that they would lose something, Its a vote for things might get better versus the certainty that they wont.FF43 said:
ones.Alanbrooke said:
you EU.AlastairMeeks said:
You seem to think that Brexit will slow down rather than accelerate the process. Brexit really was turkeys voting for Christmas, finding the way of making a trend that they hated even worse.
Look around you: pb is full of them.0 -
It's like me favouring joining the Euro.Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.0 -
You could. And many will.Anazina said:
Trolling via ballot paper. I guess I could vote UKIP next time just for shit and giggles?Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.0 -
and as for pineapples on pizzas.... You'd need a Citizens' Senate for that!Anazina said:
I can live with all that.FrancisUrquhart said:
Even worse idea...we would get far too bogged down in if Die Hard is a Christmas movie, how bad radiohead live really is and can boxed wine ever be ok...tlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.
As long as we avoid debates over which airline offers the best First Class lounge, and who can come up with the most falsely modest nickname for Oxbridge.0 -
This whole Citizens' Assembly thing sounds terribly worthy, but I'm not entirely convinced. Won't it just result in MPs being fed useless reports of what people recommended, which will be waved enthusiastically by those with whom said reports agree and tossed in the waste paper baskets of those with whom they don't, changing precisely zero Parliamentary minds in the process?
Besides which, you'd not only need quite a lot of time to conduct them, you'd presumably have to pass legislation first, in order to provide similar powers of compulsion to attend, rights of anonymity, and so on as with jury service?
I don't know, perhaps this idea can be made to work for helping to inform decision making in some future areas of contention - the long-term relationship with the EU, or constitutional reform, for example? But as far as the proximate crisis is concerned, we don't have the time to muck about for ages: regardless of whether there's any need for a technical extension of the A50 deadline (even assuming the EU27 are willing to permit such a thing,) Parliament needs to get on with it and make up its mind what it wants to do.0 -
-
TudorRose said:
and as for pineapples on pizzas.... You'd need a Citizens' Senate for that!Anazina said:
I can live with all that.FrancisUrquhart said:
Even worse idea...we would get far too bogged down in if Die Hard is a Christmas movie, how bad radiohead live really is and can boxed wine ever be ok...tlg86 said:
What if Brown was suggesting a PB Assembly?FrancisUrquhart said:
A Citizen's Assembly is even more bonkers than any of the other muted ways forward. What makes anybody think that some randoms of the street with have any more of an idea than MPs?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
And of course the cynical side of me says it is just a way of stuffing the process with people who agree with your side of the argument.
As long as we avoid debates over which airline offers the best First Class lounge, and who can come up with the most falsely modest nickname for Oxbridge. 0 -
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position. They don't have to concede anything, other than time, to do it. And if and when the outcome cuts across their personal red lines, well the CA having recommended it gives politicians the cover they need to change their position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?0 -
Political turmoil is almost the norm. It 's just that we avoided it for a generation, up to the 2010's.MarqueeMark said:
Just tell her that after centuries of being famed for our "stiff upper lip", we are getting it out of our system in one manic burst....Big_G_NorthWales said:
For the first time my Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver text after the vonc last night to ask what on earth is going on in the UK. She has not asked about brexit beforeMarqueeMark said:
We still are spared fucking ukelele muzak in every public space though....Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
I told her we were having a collective nervous breakdown and there is no obvious answer0 -
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?0 -
I think much of the world has a solid baseline level of affection and respect for the UK, together with some historic resentment too, and as much of that is based on cliched, outdated and anachronistic perceptions of what the UK is about and like as what Brexit’s detractors like to accuse its supporters of domestically.Sean_F said:
Most of the world is not interested in us. They have their own problems.kle4 said:
And? Brexit being a bad idea is a reason to stop it. Brexit causing other nations to laugh at us is a shame. But the open weeping and shame people seem to feel because others laugh at us is an incredibly disproportionate reaction. We have seem deep shit to work out, and we need to do that without focusing on whether other nation's laugh at us or not. Once we sort things out, nation's will react to however we choose to move forward. Remaining may be the best option for us - though people would laugh at us for capitulating then - but the 'woe is us' whines are, sorry to say, absolutely pathetic. We're in deep trouble and embarrassing ourselves, that's true enough - is crying about it every time a taxi driver or late night talk show host does a piece on us really the right way to react?Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
And what it we citizens disagree with what a citizens assembly thinks it the best approach?IanB2 said:
No, because they don't have members, and party executives, and career prospects, and elections to worry aboutkle4 said:
Good question. Is it just another Parliament of Saints? Problem with giving a political question over to non politicians is it turns them into politicians, so what's the point?TudorRose said:
Isn't the House of Commons a 'citizen's assembly'? Or is he really suggesting we need more (presumably) paid politicians?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1085976286529490944
A Citizen's Assembly, what sort of nonsense is Gordon Brown proposing. Sounds wonderful but cannot over ride primacy of Parliament.
More than anything else the idea our parliament should essentially give up on its responsibility because they are finding it hard is just preposterous. What next difficult thing should be turned away from politicians? Why have a parliament at all? The NHS, Climate Change, Welfare, Defence, these and more are all issues that get caught up in politics, why should we let politicians near them?
It works both ways. Russia treats us in its foreign policy with far more attention than the raw numbers might suggest.0 -
"Let's get some ordinary people to talk about Brexit and come up with a solution! What a clever idea."williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
***various focus groups held***
Some time later (circa March 27th): "What interesting reports. Unfortunately, these ideas are unworkable/will never be accepted by that nice Mr Barnier/do not deliver Brexit. Such a shame. Now, let's have another vote on my superb Withdrawal Agreement."0 -
Despite all that, the UK is safe, secure and stable. Just with a lot more political division and drama and slightly lower growth than usual.Sean_F said:
Political turmoil is almost the norm. It 's just that we avoided it for a generation, up to the 2010's.MarqueeMark said:
Just tell her that after centuries of being famed for our "stiff upper lip", we are getting it out of our system in one manic burst....Big_G_NorthWales said:
For the first time my Canadian daughter in law in Vancouver text after the vonc last night to ask what on earth is going on in the UK. She has not asked about brexit beforeMarqueeMark said:
We still are spared fucking ukelele muzak in every public space though....Gardenwalker said:Brexit is now globalish for massive, self-inflicted fuckstorm.
https://twitter.com/matthaig1/status/1085795949727883265?s=21
I told her we were having a collective nervous breakdown and there is no obvious answer
I’m not sure we’d have escaped much of that in the long term, even without a referendum.0 -
WilliamGlenn would argue it’s only a matter of time before you see the light.Sean_F said:
It's like me favouring joining the Euro.Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.0 -
Extreme europhilia is the destiny of the intelligent man.Casino_Royale said:
WilliamGlenn would argue it’s only a matter of time before you see the light.Sean_F said:
It's like me favouring joining the Euro.Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.0 -
Casino_Royale said:
You could. And many will.Anazina said:
Trolling via ballot paper. I guess I could vote UKIP next time just for shit and giggles?Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.
More evidence that one is unwise to take Kip voters seriously0 -
No, we are in for days of everyone putting forward their originally preferred solution as the only way out of the impasse. Just like on PB.Gardenwalker said:
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
It would need an extension, however, to avoid coming up against the deadline.0 -
0
-
grabcocque said:dixiedean said:
Re Citizens Assembly. What a good idea. Local areas could each choose a representative by each person having one "vote" and send them somewhere, probably to London, (would need a large building). There they could debate Brexit and vote about the outcome. I'm sure they'd reach a consensus. After a successful parlaying, maybe we could make it permanent, choosing people every few years. I suggest, at most five. Maybe it could decide other things like, oh I don't know, changes to the Law, or how much taxes we pay? This could be a way of deciding things without relying on a Monarch, or just who had the most money, land or physical strength.
Maybe it will catch on. Mmm, what to call it though?
A bunch of mindless jerks who'll be first against the wall when the revolution comes?
0 -
Yes - but PB are on a higher level than our mps and broadcast journalists and even we have no idesIanB2 said:
No, we are in for days of everyone putting forward their originally preferred solution as the only way out of the impasse. Just like on PB.Gardenwalker said:
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
It would need an extension, however, to avoid coming up against the deadline.0 -
.0
-
ydoethur said:
With Tim, the clue is in his new username.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
He’s definitely not tim but very likely another, well, distinctive, former denizen of this site.ydoethur said:
With Tim, the clue is in his new username.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"0 -
I'm a Conservative, so I like ... conserving things. Like my sanity, my money, and the country. So even though I'm very happy the polling evidence is moving against Corbyn, there's no effing way I'd test it a day sooner than we have to - in 2022!The_Apocalypse said:
So you believe the public are seeing through Corbyn but aren’t willingly to test that theory by having a GE?blueblue said:
Why not call a GE? Because an electorate that could breezily cripple the country by first voting for Brexit and then depriving the party enacting it of a working majority needs a long spell away from the voting booth, that's why!The_Apocalypse said:
Given this, why not call a GE? Now that the public is seeing through Corbyn, we can be confident he’ll be destroyed, surely....blueblue said:Excellent news for once - the public is finally seeing through Magic Grandpa, and Vince Cable has made an intervention that has real political significance. Now Corbyn has to either stick to his position (in which case he can never get an early election) or do a 180 to campaign for a second referendum and Remain (in which case he can never win one, as his Old Labour base stays home).
As for Corbyn’s Brexit position I think he’ll find various ways to keep being ambiguous on the issue. He’s gone with this no deal line knowing that not only will many of the moderates will back it, but that May will never rule out no deal. In order to do that, May would have to commit to revoking article 50 if it came down to it, and she won’t do that knowing that her coalition of voters will not be happy with this at all.
On VC - Stephen Bush has an interesting peace on that today: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/01/how-liberal-democrats-coalition-past-endangers-their-anti-brexit-future0 -
You two should get married.Anazina said:
Extreme europhilia is the destiny of the intelligent man.Casino_Royale said:
WilliamGlenn would argue it’s only a matter of time before you see the light.Sean_F said:
It's like me favouring joining the Euro.Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.0 -
Great report on C4 News about the government shutdown.
Federal employees (prison officers in this case) working full time and not getting paid.
The disgraceful act of a banana republic.0 -
Coming up against the deadline may be the only way of getting a decision (in any direction). As long as people have time to argue their own position then that's exactly what they'll do. It's a bit like making people stand up in meetings; you get quicker (if not better) decisions. I favour making the Commons sit non-stop with no provisions until they agree something (meaningful).IanB2 said:
No, we are in for days of everyone putting forward their originally preferred solution as the only way out of the impasse. Just like on PB.Gardenwalker said:
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
It would need an extension, however, to avoid coming up against the deadline.0 -
What does Prince Philip and Corbyn share today
A big car crash !!!!!0 -
Or get a rEUm.Casino_Royale said:
You two should get married.Anazina said:
Extreme europhilia is the destiny of the intelligent man.Casino_Royale said:
WilliamGlenn would argue it’s only a matter of time before you see the light.Sean_F said:
It's like me favouring joining the Euro.Casino_Royale said:Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
I’m at loss to explain that.Sean_F said:
It was a bit silly of you to vote Leave, thengrabcocque said:
Me, a gloomy dimwit pessimist: "The EU is imperfect but the freedom to live, work and love anywhere in a united and peaceful Europe is a dream that millions fought for."Richard_Tyndall said:
The world is wonderful. The political edifice called the EU is shit. Backward looking, shrinking and doomed to irrelevance. It is your vision that is the gloomy one.
You, a brexiteer intellectual optimist: "EVERYTHING IN EUROPE IS SHIT AND DOOMED"
Unless it’s solely a trolling mechanism, which it might well be.
(I'll fetch my coat....)0 -
From it being A Very Bad Idea to let the plebs have a vote because they know nowt and might vote the wrong way, we're now allowed a people's vote (as long as the right people guarantee to come out and vote the right way) and we're even allowed a citizen's assembly! What the feck are we bothering with that 8 billion quid decrepit dump in Westminster for? I despair. Our politicians have dug a massive stinking pit for themselves and are furiously shovelling the shit out with a teaspoon as the fetid water rises ever higher. Let's hope it drowns the lot of 'em.Black_Rook said:
"Let's get some ordinary people to talk about Brexit and come up with a solution! What a clever idea."williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
***various focus groups held***
Some time later (circa March 27th): "What interesting reports. Unfortunately, these ideas are unworkable/will never be accepted by that nice Mr Barnier/do not deliver Brexit. Such a shame. Now, let's have another vote on my superb Withdrawal Agreement."0 -
Beware the ides of March!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes - but PB are on a higher level than our mps and broadcast journalists and even we have no idesIanB2 said:
No, we are in for days of everyone putting forward their originally preferred solution as the only way out of the impasse. Just like on PB.Gardenwalker said:
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
It would need an extension, however, to avoid coming up against the deadline.0 -
I'm sure I read somewhere that the Palace of Westminster's ancient sewage system relies on an enormous tank under the building, that was installed in around 1880 and is in dire need of replacement.twistedfirestopper3 said:
From it being A Very Bad Idea to let the plebs have a vote because they know nowt and might vote the wrong way, we're now allowed a people's vote (as long as the right people guarantee to come out and vote the right way) and we're even allowed a citizen's assembly! What the feck are we bothering with that 8 billion quid decrepit dump in Westminster for? I despair. Our politicians have dug a massive stinking pit for themselves and are furiously shovelling the shit out with a teaspoon as the fetid water rises ever higher. Let's hope it drowns the lot of 'em.Black_Rook said:
"Let's get some ordinary people to talk about Brexit and come up with a solution! What a clever idea."williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
***various focus groups held***
Some time later (circa March 27th): "What interesting reports. Unfortunately, these ideas are unworkable/will never be accepted by that nice Mr Barnier/do not deliver Brexit. Such a shame. Now, let's have another vote on my superb Withdrawal Agreement."
I sometimes imagine said tank collapsing and the House of Commons chamber falling into it one Wednesday lunchtime during PMQs. It would be a fitting climax to this sorry debacle.0 -
She's a liar. She said it would be a disaster but she's made her fortune out of Brexit!williamglenn said:Gina Miller meeting French senators:
https://twitter.com/senateurJGM/status/10859125117596835840 -
Thought you’d be for avoiding the prospect of a Corbyn govt as early as possible - oh well....blueblue said:
I'm a Conservative, so I like ... conserving things. Like my sanity, my money, and the country. So even though I'm very happy the polling evidence is moving against Corbyn, there's no effing way I'd test it a day sooner than we have to - in 2022!The_Apocalypse said:
So you believe the public are seeing through Corbyn but aren’t willingly to test that theory by having a GE?blueblue said:
Why not call a GE? Because an electorate that could breezily cripple the country by first voting for Brexit and then depriving the party enacting it of a working majority needs a long spell away from the voting booth, that's why!The_Apocalypse said:
Given this, why not call a GE? Now that the public is seeing through Corbyn, we can be confident he’ll be destroyed, surely....blueblue said:Excellent news for once - the public is finally seeing through Magic Grandpa, and Vince Cable has made an intervention that has real political significance. Now Corbyn has to either stick to his position (in which case he can never get an early election) or do a 180 to campaign for a second referendum and Remain (in which case he can never win one, as his Old Labour base stays home).
As for Corbyn’s Brexit position I think he’ll find various ways to keep being ambiguous on the issue. He’s gone with this no deal line knowing that not only will many of the moderates will back it, but that May will never rule out no deal. In order to do that, May would have to commit to revoking article 50 if it came down to it, and she won’t do that knowing that her coalition of voters will not be happy with this at all.
On VC - Stephen Bush has an interesting peace on that today: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/01/how-liberal-democrats-coalition-past-endangers-their-anti-brexit-future0 -
The ides of January has been bad enoughBlack_Rook said:
Beware the ides of March!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes - but PB are on a higher level than our mps and broadcast journalists and even we have no idesIanB2 said:
No, we are in for days of everyone putting forward their originally preferred solution as the only way out of the impasse. Just like on PB.Gardenwalker said:
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
It would need an extension, however, to avoid coming up against the deadline.0 -
Not sure that she made her fortune out of brexit but her fame, yes.twistedfirestopper3 said:
She's a liar. She said it would be a disaster but she's made her fortune out of Brexit!williamglenn said:Gina Miller meeting French senators:
https://twitter.com/senateurJGM/status/1085912511759683584
0 -
Chances of a GE before 29th March: 0%.
Chances of another referendum before 29th March: 0%.
So it's either extend the negotiation period, revoke A50, or No Deal.0 -
Not in a banana republic! Work or join the inmates in prison. Errrr......AndyJS said:
Do they have a choice as to whether they work or not?Anazina said:Great report on C4 News about the government shutdown.
Federal employees (prison officers in this case) working full time and not getting paid.
The disgraceful act of a banana republic. 0 -
One for the "Corbyn is the only person standing in the way of a People's Vote!!!!111" brigade:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/corbyn-could-face-string-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote0 -
That's clearly incorrect. The adjectival phrase "widely understood" shouldn't be hyphenated.Scott_P said:0 -
Speak for yourself. I think we will get to "Back against the wall" time and then go for the only solution that is near instant - revocation. One letter and it is done.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes - but PB are on a higher level than our mps and broadcast journalists and even we have no idesIanB2 said:
No, we are in for days of everyone putting forward their originally preferred solution as the only way out of the impasse. Just like on PB.Gardenwalker said:
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
It would need an extension, however, to avoid coming up against the deadline.0 -
Not Brexited yet.twistedfirestopper3 said:
She's a liar. She said it would be a disaster but she's made her fortune out of Brexit!williamglenn said:Gina Miller meeting French senators:
https://twitter.com/senateurJGM/status/10859125117596835840 -
Surely they must get it all back once the government opens up again? That'd be the only thing that would keep me at work. If I wasn't going to get get paid, I'd just walk off the job.Beverley_C said:
Not in a banana republic! Work or join the inmates in prison. Errrr......AndyJS said:
Do they have a choice as to whether they work or not?Anazina said:Great report on C4 News about the government shutdown.
Federal employees (prison officers in this case) working full time and not getting paid.
The disgraceful act of a banana republic.0 -
In view of everything, there is one really off-the-wall idea it might be worth considering. How about asking Her Majesty what we ought to do?
If only she would play ball .....
Good evening, everybody.0 -
I agree. But this won't happen until a few days, maybe even a few hours, before March 29.Beverley_C said:
Speak for yourself. I think we will get to "Back against the wall" time and then go for the only solution that is near instant - revocation. One letter and it is done.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes - but PB are on a higher level than our mps and broadcast journalists and even we have no idesIanB2 said:
No, we are in for days of everyone putting forward their originally preferred solution as the only way out of the impasse. Just like on PB.Gardenwalker said:
But I sense she and we are not quite ready for this denouement yet.IanB2 said:
That's why it's an easier option for her, and for most politicians. It doesn't reflect anyone's preexisting position.williamglenn said:
May's apparent interest in the citizens' assembly idea suggests she'll compromise on process in order to kick the can rather than compromising on content.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.MarqueeMark said:
You really think she's going to cave on any red line?Gardenwalker said:I have been looking again at numbers.
I think a commitment to seek single market membership (ie Norway) in the Political Declaration would get through the House.
So would, but perhaps more tightly, a People’s Vote.
I am less sure about a commitment to a permanent Customs Union because I think May would carry even less of her Party than her Deal did.
So: which will May cave on: the No FOM redline or the No More Vote redline?
It would need an extension, however, to avoid coming up against the deadline.0 -
Even better for her then. There is a high probability that we don't leave, so even the idea of Brexit has set her up for life. Win/win for the Miller family!TOPPING said:
Not Brexited yet.twistedfirestopper3 said:
She's a liar. She said it would be a disaster but she's made her fortune out of Brexit!williamglenn said:Gina Miller meeting French senators:
https://twitter.com/senateurJGM/status/10859125117596835840 -
Yes, some would have people believe the whole parliamentary party are behind a second ref. 71 MPs have come out for one so far.Danny565 said:One for the "Corbyn is the only person standing in the way of a People's Vote!!!!111" brigade:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/corbyn-could-face-string-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote0
